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The Marcion Heresy
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- čas přidán 17. 12. 2022
- Today we will be discussing the heresy caused by Marcion and why the early church fathers rejected it.
The Gnostics : • The Gnostic Gospels
Sources :
Justin Martyr - www.newadvent....
Irenaeus of Lyon - earlychurchtex...
Tertullian - earlychurchtex...
Comment feed back !
Calm voice talking about ancient heresies with a soothing background music, now here's content I didn't know I needed. +1 subscriber.
i appreciate that comment a lot , i’ve fulfilled my goal😂
There is no historical evidence to suggest that Marcion of Sinope, who lived in the 2nd century AD, repented of his teachings or actions. On the contrary, Marcion was known for his strong adherence to his beliefs, which diverged greatly from mainstream Christianity of that time. He believed in a radical form of dualism that rejected the Hebrew Bible and the Old Testament God, claiming that they were incompatible with the teachings of Jesus.
Marcion's teachings were considered heretical by many early Christian theologians, and he was condemned by several Church councils. While it is possible that some individuals might have attributed repentance to Marcion in later writings or discussions, there is no credible historical evidence to support such claims.
Thanks
Marcion’s critics had their bread buttered by the same banker class ruling over us today. He was right.
When you are correct ,there is nothing to repent for. Sin is relative. What is sin to one ,is blessings for others. You just keep making it up as you go !
Marcion was right
@@terrycihat4136I suggest you read about what the gnostics and their pagan ways did to women.
Thanks for the quick well put together overview on this.
Glad it was helpful!
That's the quandary, the OT god is clearly evil and then we're supposed to believe everything is changed now that he had a human hybrid son, fatherhood has softened him up, his son said "hey, pops, maybe you should cut back on the evil stuff, it really is excessive"?
For those who want to learn more on Marcion, please check out the following scholars: David Litwa, Markus Vincent; Mark Bilby, Jason BeDeun, father Harry Gamble, Jack Bull, and Antonio Piñero.
The creator depends for its majesty the creation...
What is this being prior to creation, and why do you call its works good?
The divine can be brought into this world, but just looking around makes it apparent it is not inherent here.
I love this voice.
In this comment section: massive amounts of Gnostic butthurt.
Small criticism that in no way took away from the video- you say "un BLEMISHingly" instead of "un BLUSHingly" around 3:55. NBD, one sees a lot of CZcamsrs do such things when reading someone else's words.
Subbed :)
Thanks for the reply , it’s funny how many people claim to be gnostics in todays age, most of them just like the idea of it , not the actual history , regardless God bless brother 🙏
I think it’s mostly atheist
What were the churches founded by Marcion? Do you know? I'm not pointing fingers, but where were they located? Syria, Ethiopia, Palestine, etc.?
the churches he established were in asia minor , so think of the eastern part of turkey and such
@@SanctusApologetics the Church of Pergamum?
yo this heresy kinna sounds like what people believe today, saying the God of the NT is different from the God of the OT.
The God of the old testament says in deuteronomy 13 and 17 to stone your sons and daughters if they worship another god besides him. He is a demon. Marcion was right.
The god in the old testament says in deuteronomy 13 and 17 to stone your sons and daughters if they follow another god besides him. He is evil. Marcion was right
Yeah, it's dumb
@@Nattapong69 God didn't write Mosaic Law :P
@@BongBing11 ****in your egotistical opinion****
I just stumbled on this video and this was good. Taking classes on Christology and this heresy was brought up.
Dope info. Hope to see more content in the future brother🙏🏼
Cool. Hopefully deeper in the future
@therion5458 That's an awesome perspective you just gave. I don't doubt one thing you've just mentioned. Great thoughts 👌 👏 👍. I'm always rightly dividing without any religious zeal, but having the zeal of righteousness. I appreciate your insight 🙏🏽.
Thank you for the video. Can you share the name of the first chant?
it's the Kyrie from Missa cum jubilo
Anyone believing yahwah is Jesus’ father is truly misguided.
The Marcionite movement advocated for abstinence from sexual intercourse and marriage. That would result in extinction. To subscribe to Marcion's view would make Jesus the leader of a death cult in disguise.
Jesus’ literal name meaning is Yahweh saves so..
Marcion’s view is definitely interesting but it has lots of plot holes.
awesome vid!
When I first dipped my toes into Christian heresiology, Marcion and Origen were two of my favorite heretics. Marcion cutting out parts of the New Testament epistles that he didn't like is basically the cherrypicking fallacy.
It's fun because the fallacy presented is that Christianity is good.
marcion didnt cut out anything..
he was complaining that others were adding to his gospel to make it more jewish...
marcion has the first gospel.. and the letters of paul
he was the father of the new testament canon
@@ranilodicen4460 Places like Ephesians 2:11-22 convey a unity that never happened, and largely this is due to the refusal to answer the prayer of Jesus seen in John 17:20-26 seeing it as somehow Pagan to encounter truth itself... which is actually quite telling and explains much of history where this approach has controlled humanity.
Luther did the same
Do you think this could be why Paul is portrayed differently in Acts than in his epistles? Did Macion corrupt Paul's epistles?
Paul’s letters predate Marcion , so it couldn’t be possible , plus Pauls letters were so widespread even before Marcion
Also how are the old and new testaments united if the Old Testament makes no mention of Jesus Christ?
It does , daniel 7:13-14
@@SanctusApologetics Not by name tho. Very interesting tho
@@SanctusApologeticsit means an anointed messiah who come to rule Israel just like what the Israelites think a messiah would be. Jesus never did that.
@@SanctusApologetics Nope!
Wow glad Andy Stanley err I mean Marcionism never gained much ground.
This comment has a deeper meaning
Who is Andy Stanley
@@Irelandforever609 he's an American megachurch pastor who argues we need to do away with the old testament. He has many other controversial positions too. His claim to fame is being the son of a great pastor Charles Stanley who, unfortunately, passed away recently
@@shanekahrs4776 Thank you, I just checked him out there, it's sad
Marcion was definitely ahead of the bunch in his reasoning of Bible. I think he had a intuitive insight that truly made him a very bright light which gained the attention of the power house Rome. I think a mistake we make is that we don't point the finger at the originator of Christianity which was created by the apostle Paul. Paul never quoted any of the teachings of a man named Jesus Christ that we read of in the 4 gospels. Why?
Nonsense! you have been deluded by 19thC German philosophers......See Mere Christianity by C S Lewis or if you care to, see a book on the Orthodox Church or try Orthodoxwiki. These heresies were rejected for a good reason. Have a look. Best wishes
You don't realise what you're saying. paul was the only patriarch that Marcion liked besides Luke and he messed with both of their writings.
@@jackdoe4632 so did the church.
Examples please. @@spiritualrealities999
Marcion was a Paul fanboy, Paul quoted the apostles andnquoted chrisy infact in acts is said Paul studied with the apostles and participated in a council with them, Marcion just did what many men do and changed history so he can make his religion, its no different than what muhhamed did, what joseph smith did, of many sincretitic religions did, Marcion was a man whose tried to falsify history, but the string evidence of the time, as writtings from the apostles And Paul himself about the apostles, and the apostles about Paul, make it clear Marcion tried to make his own religion, as if he was a chosen man, because he is obviously inspired by the jewsish oral tradition of the kabbalah, which is purely gnostic, as said the messiah would abolish the Law, because the jews cant fufill it, Jesus infact fufilled the Law, hence Marcion knowing of the Kabbalah tried to put Jesus there
Playlist on Marcion by a living Heretic:-
studio.czcams.com/users/playlistPL0C8AFaJhsWwTAE41f8WSyGoBo55rGXbM/edit
You must be a student of comparative religion! This Marcion seems to have Gnostic tendencies. I avoid them ! St Irenaeus wrote around 200 A D he may be helpful
Have you ever wondered about the HAGIA SOPHIA (Holy Wisdom) - Most magnificent church in Christiandom? SOPHIA was the GNOSTIC Goddess who created the world and Humanity.
WHY would the Orthodox Byzantines name their greatest church after a Gnostic Goddess?
I’m not greek orthodox , but the hagia sophia which means ( holy wisdom) is another name for Jesus, because Jesus is called the wisdom of God by Paul
@@SanctusApologetics bullshit
But Marcion was not a gnostic though, many people have mistaken him for one
The "higher god" of Marcion is the same as in Gnosticism. He simply used the trick of claiming that Jesus was sent to this world as a guide to help men achieve the very same "gnosis" described in less covert forms of Gnosticism. Marcion caused his followers to embrace the same destructive worldview and unhealthy asceticism that make it essentially no less a death cult. His followers embraced the idea of abstinence from marriage and sexual intercourse. This would mean extinction!
and gnosticism means nothing else than pursuit of knowledge - what's wrong with that
@@sirius4518 that he was not a gnostic. There's much more to gnosticism than what you're saying the word's meaning is
@@christianchaidez what do you mean by that? expand by a little more
@@sirius4518 gnosticism is a whole different belief to what Marcion believed. They talk about aeons, archons, yaldabaoth and many other creatures that are not mentioned by the Apostle Paul or any elsewhere in parts of the Bible that Marcion decided to put together. In gnosticism they Believe that the creator God is an evil being that made a messed up world and that the true God is "El". Now Marcion did believe that YAHWEH cannot be Jesus' Father but he did not believe in everything else that gnostics believe. I don't blame him though, Jesus did practically say everything in contrast to the God of the old testament and we have NO theology whatsoever for Satan in the Hebrew Bible.
Interesting how marcion loved Paul's writings so much 🤔
This is what Mr Ed Lapiz teaching now..the teaching of Marcion or called today as "Marcionism"
Can you make a video on Arianism
czcams.com/video/1Bz4lUgLYgk/video.html
It's not heresy, but a sound mind.
indeed
Excellent. Keep it up
The reason why the Old Testament god has to be the same as Christ is because of the links in both prophecy and word that Christ directly says
I recommend looking up Tovia Singer. Rabbi (apparently descended from Aaron himself)
He's pretty much the reason I don't think that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah.
I'm not saying for you to change your mind, (I don't care, I'm not jew or christian) but you may find it interesting to see his arguments.
Especially about his claims that Jesus didn't fulfill any prophecies.
@@rainynight02Yes. He explains everything very clearly.
@@rainynight02 a Jew convinced you to deny Jesus. Shocking.
@@BushcraftingBogan he’s a liar.
@jacksonrelaxin3425 Your fundamentalist church is lying to you. I know. I've been there. It is not pleasant stepping outside of the echo chamber and realizing that everything you dedicated your life to is wrong.
The fact that you are here will be your first step in realizing this. At some point, maybe years from now, you will come face to face with it and be set free.
I know. I've been there. Be strong in your journey my friend. I hope you arrive safely.
The Marcion texts predate the gospel of Luke
Show me evidence this is the case , don’t only make a the claim.
Marcionism is the only believable Christianity.
He was right...
Very nice succinct video. Thank you.
So do we have the old writings or the new edited by Marcion writings?
yes there is a utube channel - pre-nicean Christianity.
Consult Orthodox Church sites .
Marcion was cursed and damned to hell by his spiritual father/apostle.
If you believe this and accept it, you're accepting satanic seeds/ doctrines of demons.
So if him being damned to hell, isn't enough keep that in mind.
You sound like a religious extremist.
@@TheDanEdwardsbetter than someone oblivious to these things
O.t. Isn’t evil. There’s nothing to point to the messiah without the Old Testament. Prophecies and foundations had to be laid for the coming of Christ to be possible, just like certain other things have to come to pass for the end of times to occur.
Are you the mind unveiled man?
Marion was definitely a heretic: Satan cannot create. Genesis refers to the creator God as El or Elohim, meaning “god” or “God”. Later, YHWH introduced himself to Moses, and did some bad stuff. YHWH was originally considered just one god among many (but also the one god of the Jews and in their opinion the best god). Creator God is the One Infinite Creator. Marcion had a problem with YHWH, understandably. But YHWH is not the Creator.
Correct - and Marcion believed we should not be confused. The OT / NT mix is confusion. “God is not the author of confusion, but of peace” (1 Corinthians 14:33)
2nd Samuel 24:1 & 1st Chronicles 21:1 stated that the Old-Testament God is Satan, and also, Adam was a Golem formed in the garden, and not a human being.
They were many humans walking the earth before Adam.
The victor writes the history.
cant just say that if marcion directly goes against jesus who taught that what moses and the prophets said were right
The victors whom Christ said "...and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it"?
@@kandam5517Mohammed did the same, yet you don't see me booking a trip to Mecca
Well, yes, because the dead tell no tales.
Despite this cold reality, I believe that truth is truth and will always find a way to reveal itself to the world. Time is its ally, you know.
@@coreym4979Muhammad explicitly contradicts the old testament so I don't know what your talking abt
The Elohim vs. Yahweh.
Yahweh was one of the Elohim
@@joanacagido7457 Yahweh is a lion, a leopard, and a bear. "The Beast," of Revelation.
@@christophernichols1379 we are all the beast...666 .( 6 electrons,6 prontons, 6 neutrons) carbon
Correct. Yahweh and Ba'al were two sons of the Canaanite diety, El. The Levantine tribes worshipped the Elohim and the Mesopotamian worshipped the Annunaki. El and Yahweh were later syncretized in the religion of Judaism.
@@wackyywaferjg6486 Publish the name Yahweh, and attribute to Yahweh, the greatness of the Elohim. Deuteronomy 32:3
to edit an authority he professes to appeal to - ie Paul and Luke, is the s epitome of DISHONEST scholarship
that would be enough for me to reject him even if i did not know his heresies.
clearly he was in love with his own ideas and so was not open to the Spirit of Christ to repent of anything.
and that, even more than his errors, which of themselves would be forgivable if he only sought the Spirit, has sealed his fate.
he is to be pitied
You do not have to be marcionist , to see differences between god of OT and Heavenly Father in NT. Jesus is exact image of the Father. Never killed, never punished, never killed infants on the rock. God of OT killed and supported murdering over 2mlnpeople.
Really? To who was Abraham was interceding for Sodom? He had a body and eat previously with him?and didn’t withheld the judgement because there were not enough righteous people and the balance of wickedness was to heavy?Who was Him? You err ignoring the Scriptures aka Old Covenant
Marcion was right the god of the old testament is not of Jesus nor the God of the NT. Its plain to see and you have to do mental gymnastics to make it fit.
Heresy is self will while faith is submission to our divine authority.
Yall should read about turtullian he was arguably more influential then augistine was.
The demiurge in the old testament wants you to submit to him, and stay ignorant. He doesn't want you want you to gain wisdom (gnosis) because then you will know you've been lied to.
Mankind is a Hersey in itself hence Yeshua had to give his life for it....
Marcion was RIGHT. Cruel Jehovah was NOT the Christian God. Jehovah demanded BLOOD SACRIFICE. JESUS rebelled against this practice at Passover. Jesus condemned Jewish Priests, Levites, Publicans (tax collectors), Pharisees and Saducees - `YOUR FATHER was a liar and a murderer from the Beginning...' WHY is the OT 85% of the Bible? Why cut out so many books about JESUS?
John 8:58 - Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
@@SanctusApologetics Meaning?
@@d.drakon8707 Jesus is claiming to be Yahweh , even historians admit this, and Yahweh is the “old testament god”
`Historians admit' all kinds of things. Did Jesus SAY my god is `Yahweh' or "Jehovah'? NO. He condemned the ENTIRE Rabbinical class - `YOUR Father was a liar and a murderer from the beginning.' TWO GODS. The TRUTH is right there in plain sight.
@@d.drakon8707 Jesus literally claims to be Yahweh in that verse , he literally says I AM- that’s means Yahweh
Did the church of Rome exist and 135CE?
It was one church that split.. it was the orthodox church
no, he's coping
Marcion was right!
How about ARIANISM? Arius' view tha Jesus is not God.
So Marcion didn’t invent the New Testament? I saw a video that suggested so
No , the new testament had been written way before marcion was preaching his false gospel.
@@SanctusApologetics Ahhh ok
@@Ismimical he is considered the first to create a canon of texts. The texts themselves already existed but it was not compiled into an official collection of texts prior to him.
@@wackyywaferjg6486 Ahhhhh ok, thank you
@@SanctusApologeticsMarcion is literally the source. Marcion is Q
Bruh why are so many people in these comments defending marcionism
It is necessary that I should get excommunicated for the truth, but my spirit will rise from the grave and the whole world will know I was right.
-Marcion of Sinope
2033 will be a legendary year, 100 year anniversary of something special plus 2000 years of crucifying an Aryan man, and forcibly nosewashing him as your Messiah to subvert and destroy the White Aryan civilization.
I've been reading the bible this past year. Finished Romans today and start Corinthians tomorrow.
In reading the old testament, aka, ghe Jewish Tanach (or however its spelled) I came away with just one over all view.
"The hebrew god is evil, incompetent, or both."
I am not of any of the abrahamic faiths. I have also, after looking up many videos on the topic, many by Tovia Singer, am of the mind the jesus was not the Jewish mesiah.
Though I don't quite like Jesus either because of a few things he himself said and commanded.
Learning of the gnostic gospels/scriptures/whatever else they're called, of what little im aware of im far more open to those.
Though im also polytheistic to begin with. I particularly like the little i heard of the gospel of thomas, because it reminded me of Buddhism.
However, i am a Buddhist-pagan, so, there's bias there on my part.
The God of the Tanach is the God of the New Testament , i would also recommend you look into some videos i have done on the truthfulness of ressurection of Jesus, also i appreciate your open mindedness!
You simply don’t understand what Jesus said.
@@SanctusApologetics why is it even important if all we must know is to believe in Jesus?
@@jacksonrelaxin3425 Because Paul says if Jesus has not risen our faith is in vain.
@@SanctusApologetics I’m saying that you’re stressing the Old Testament being the same as the new as if that’s a salvation requirement then it’s technically not. Jesus said to believe in the kingdom as a child believes. I don’t think that means to spend 24/7 debating 2000 year old manuscripts.
He was by no means a heretic - anyone who reads, READS and doesn't pretend to read the bible will see that he's right
What kind of a father gives his children rock if they ask for water and snakes if they ask for food?
Yet Yahweh was the one who did that. The jews stitched their cursed texts about some pagan deity/alien to out lord Jesus Christ message and weakened it.
Accept the Crist fully. Don't patch old cloth with new cloth DONT pour new vine in old bottles!
@@OrdoMallius I think you may have written in the wrong rubric, mate
Agreed.
The ppl in the comments saying marcion was cherry picking have not studied the cannonising of tge bible by the Church. 😂
I have studied the canonization of the bible and Marcion , and i will say that Marcion was definitely cherry-picking verses and books o the new testament. The church fathers who knew the aposltes directly quoted from Matthew mark and Luke , not just luke or an edited version of luke.
@SanctusApologetics but the bible has been canonically cherry picked by those that excommunicated Marcion too. The book of Enoch was taken out completely. Also, the apocrypha too.
@@dburgessnotburger The Book of Enoch was never in the canonical tradition, their were little to no Christians who used Enoch besides the Jewish Escenes who were not Christian. The early church fathers like Ignatius and Polycarp who knew the aposltes followed a very similar canon to the one that was canonized in Rome.
@SanctusApologetics appreciate your knowledge. I justthink ppl are hypocritical yo call Marcion a cherry picking heretic
w
marcion was the first christian
John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[a] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
John 6:46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.
Exodus 33:11 The Lord would speak to Moses face to face, as one speaks to a friend. Then Moses would return to the camp, but his young aide Joshua son of Nun did not leave the tent.
Did Jesus lie when he said "no one has ever seen God"?
@@lukas4378 Of course not, Jesus Christ or the 'Angel of The Lord' was the one to speak to them.
Man ever since these gentiles got a hold of the scripturess they twisted everything like we see today like the Catholic church, protestine churches and all these sects that came after Jesus's death..It's like these people ancestors are from Rome and they still carry the same beliefs in denying the diety of God and Jesus. It is not hard until they make it hard and cause confusion
luke was a gentile…
@Sanctus not including him...but I'm saying a lot of Christianity has included some pagan practices that were heavily influenced by gentiles and indoctrination of a false God
@@SanctusApologetics Really Luke was a Gentile? I thought he was a Jew? I know Timothy was mixed with a Greek father and Jewish mother.
@@siervodedios5952 Ya , eusebius of Caesera says this about luke , “Luke, an Antiochene by birth and a physician by profession was long a companion of Paul and was closely associated also with the other apostles”, their are some earlier sources as well
You realize Gnosticism originated with Jews
Marcion was correct ! It was the church fathers who were in error in the name of the lord ! True believers do not recognize Yaldabaith !
LMFAOOO
Marcion was cursed and damned to hell by his spiritual father/apostle.
If you believe this and accept it, you're accepting satanic seeds/ doctrines of demons.
So if him being damned to hell, isn't enough keep that in mind.
And this is NOT something to joke about.
@@NomzamoNokoyo-gm3bj First, there is no hell. If there was ,no human has the power to send another human there. Marcion taught Jesus first. Long before The Roman Catholic church. It is not a joke you and your teachers are just plain wrong. You worship Mammom.
@@terrycihat4136 You have accepted doctrines of demons, none of that is in the bible, unless you're reading a different bible.
And to that, Paul says "Let any man who teaches a different gospel, be accursed and damned to hell"
They are more so rejected, because, "It is impossible to redeem someone who falls into sin, yet has been enlightened with the truth of the gospel".
Get your doctrine right, because with wrong doctrines, comes different(false) gods.
I pray you receive this and don't instantly reply thinking nothing of this.
Only the antichrist spirit rejects sound doctrine.
I pray you listen and don't be the one who gives into that spirit.
@@NomzamoNokoyo-gm3bj Which Paul ? There were 4 ?
Marcion was a holy man and better friend to Jewish people than the proto-orthodox were at the time.
he rejected all jewish texts and the old testament God , the christian’s started out in Israel and followed Yahweh, that speaks for itself
@@SanctusApologetics That is a typical misconception about Marcion that the heresiologists tried to paint him into. In truth, he was a very saintly church father and was a great friend to Jewish people when anti-semitism was brewing with the ortho-christians.
@@nicholasdasilva9 what source or writing do you have , that talks about Marcion as a good person?
@@SanctusApologetics Found Christianities by Dr M David Litwa. He has spoken extensively on this topic as well.
@@nicholasdasilva9 i’m speaking in terms of ancient sources and writings around the time of Marcion, assumptions from modern writers are not always reliable
Heretic.....but you kept the changes?? Hmmmm.....😒😔