GI Joe Cartoon Vs Comic | What is CANON?
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- čas přidán 7. 07. 2024
- Destro Is My Spirit Animal compares the G.I. Joe Comic book written by Larry Hama with the Sunbow animated cartoon to analyze what is CANON in G.I. Joe? Where does the defining narrative come from?
#gijoe #80snostalgia #gijoearealamericanhero - Zábava
Serpentor taking an arrow 🏹 arrow to the face was one of my favorite comic book moments
Yeah, Zartan has a big kill count
I consider that the Marvel Comics written by Larry Hama being canon. He was the creator and the comics came first.
It makes sense. Definitely my preferred version
The original series 1-155 & the continued line to 155.5-307 but what about the sub series such as Yearbook, Frontlines, or Special Missions?
@@diamondsandgold1993 Larry wrote the Yearbooks and Special Missions comics. I am not sure bout the Frontlines. So what are you arguing?
I think in terms of G.I. Joe, cannon is very personal. For me, Comics > Cartoon, Hawk is the Joe leader, Scarlett belongs with Snake-eyes, Stalker is higher up the chain of command than either Flint or Beach-head, Cobra Commander is a bad-ass that used to be a used car salesman, not a snake person, etc. But outside of those "core beliefs" I have room for most of the less crazy elements of the cartoon. And I agree that a lot of my characterizations of some of the lesser seen (in the comics) characters come from the cartoon, such as for Spirit, Alpine, Wet-suit, etc. Then there are characters that both the comics AND the cartoon did dirty, like Admiral Keel-haul and Grand Slam, who basically got no time in either.
True. there's a whole bunch of characters that don't do a lot in any media. Agree with all your points on the comic. I get offended at the suggestion that Scarlett is with anyone other than Snake Eyes
AGREED!
Canon. One “n”.
Same here
Larry Hama was pretty adamant about writing some of the more absurd out there elements as little as necessary.
Yeah, he seemed to have contempt for the crazier elements. Which is weird, because the newer IDW GI Joe is crazy sci-fi heavy
and you should observe, no where near as popular or beloved @@DestroIsMySpiritAnimal
My argument for the comics is the majority were written by Larry Hama because he also wrote the file cards.
I always liked GI Joe having standard, modern weapons, vehicles, and gear. However, Cobra having Destro as a weapons designer, I was cool with Cobra having weapons and vehicles that were a bit on the futuristic side than the Joes had
I'm comic all the way. We need a Dr. Venom and a Kwinn in Classified. That being said you do make a fine argument for the cartoon. Well done
Oh yeah, Kwinn is at the very top of my list. Also Dr Venom in a deluxe set with the brainwave scanner
I watch your videos and I find that we agree at about a 90% clip. Cobra La is absolutely where I drew the line as a kid and to this day I will have nothing to do with it. It didn't end my collecting on the spot but that was absolutely when the decline started. Would pretty much just pick and choose what I wanted after that based on which figure looked cool or badass.
Back to the point. I like how you put it, it's all Canon, but also none of it. In my dream world we'd find that guy or girl like us in Hollywood who lived and breathed it all in the '80s and early '90s and we'd give that person a clean slate to take these characters and create the G.I.Joe universe. Basically a modern day Larry Hama. The comics, cartoons, movies, etc is all now Legends and this person can take the best elements from them all to build something cohesive from the ground up, while still remaining true to the general spirit of what we all loved as kids, and now, adults.
In my mind that's probably 75% Hama comics and file cards, 20 % ARAH cartoon and 5% everything else and/or new creative. Something along those lines.
Yeah, you are right. the only hope for a good GI Joe movie or series would be for a Peter Jackson type to treat it like Jackson did Lord of the Rings
I'll always be on the Comics side. Hama is the man wrote most of the file cards as well as most of the main comic run. There are tons of cartoons as well. Sunbow, DiC, Renegades, Extreme, Sigma Six for series. Resolute(any Joe fan that hasn't watched this really should), Valor vs Venom, Ninja Battles, Spy Troops.
Yes, the DIC stuff is terrible. Resolute is great. Wish it was longer. Renegades is really good. A new one is coming out soon, I believe
Resolute always struck me as a bit too serious. Sunbow and Hama's comics always had an ample infusion of humor in them, which gave them an extra charm and moments of levity. Maybe if Resolute had continued as a full season of episodes, they would have included some of that levity and humor, but, who knows.
@seanbeckett4019 True, I watched the entire season 1 & 2 of GI Joe a few years ago & still loved it!! Season 3 & 4 had some good arcs, but it was mostly unbearable! Lol Resolute was good, but yeah, way too serious. I really liked Sigma 6 as well. Renegades wasn't bad. The 86 movie is still great! The live films were alright. At least they gave me some awesome 1:18th figures & vehicles.
I never read the comics, but I do love the file cards! So, since basically, the cartoons the only Joe continuity I know of, that's what I'm sticking with. As for the Joe movie figures, I'm just going to turn them into new characters & or customs. Except for the icons like Snake-Eyes & Stormshadow. They can be alt costumes. Movie Duke, Road-Block, etc., they're going to be all new characters. So, Snake & Scarlet were together before he got messed-up? Also, is Tommy Japanese-American? How is he from a long line of secret ninja clan while being in the US army? Also, I thought you couldn't have a criminal record & join the military? How is Lorenzo in the service, when he was a notorious ex-gang leader? Also, CC's Cobra-La origins is a lot more interesting to me, then a pathetic car sales man, becoming the top evil overlord! Lol
It's only natural to steer clear of elements you don't care for & go all in for the aspects you do love. I can't fault Hama for that. Since, idk the characters of how they are in the books, I'll just have to use the file cards as a guide & apply that to the cartoons.
@@holonet1 I recommend giving the 80s comics a try, I didn't read them until I was about 32 year old (I grew up on the Sunbow cartoon, which I still love). I'm so glad I finally read them. The longer, more ambitious story arcs begin around issue #11, that's when the series kicks into higher gear.
I will have to see if I can find them.
Good point about Firefly. The similar looking Beachhead was like that for me at 8 years old. Always my favorite protagonist to use.
Good point. He's almost missing from the comic book, yet I think he tops most people's list as one of the favorites
Fantastic video! Definitely a topic worth talking.
I'll always stay with Hama's comics, it has some really weird stuff too, like the newer robot ninjas and their Skynet/Auto leader, but the way Larry treats the conflict and people is what made me a fan of the franchise.
I would say the biggest difference between the two is in their depictions of armed conflicts. Larry said it himself: he always felt the lack of death in the show was moral bankrupcy. Talking about a military faction -be it sci-fi, be it fantasy- needs addressing on the ugly parts too, even a toyline for children needs it.
That is a good point. It did go all Terminator in the latest run. It was fun, but I didn't love it.
That is great Larry had that point of view to show kids war is hell, while still providing an interesting story they could appreciate
The voice actors of the Sunbow cartoon gave so much life to the characterization of the Joes and Cobra but I pulled the plug after the 1987 movie
I was there from the jump as an elementary school kid. First came the toys, then the comics. Then, years later, the cartoon miniseries. Then a year or two after that, the cartoon series. So for me? The comics were the Real Deal along with the figures' file cards. The cartoons was a bananas, kiddified iteration of the Joe franchise... Fun (with GREAT voice acting), but absolutely insane.
Yes, the cartoon is absolutely batshit insane. I'm rewatching it now, and i"m impressed at how entertained I am still, and that's all about how crazy it gets
i love the GI Joe movie but that background was distracting AF!!!.... i would also say about the movie, that intro with Pythona is one of the best movie intro ever, not just animated!
i'm a cartoon guy and always will be, i only had a couple of comic books and now the cartoon is everywhere but the comic books are hard to find!
Thanks for the feedback. i'll kill the video in the BG for next time.
Yes, love Pythona. The good news is, You can read all the comics online for free. it's probably a semi-legal website, but it works
If one looks at the Yuuzan Vong from SW Expanded Universe, they are essentially Cobra-La in space!
Dude! You totally read my mind on that observation. Quick read really.🤣 I think the Vong were what the Joes Cobra-La should have been. But can’t traumatize the kids. Duke came back in one piece right?!?🤣🤣🤣✌️🤘🇨🇦
Never heard of it. I'll have to check it out.
In elementary school a few kids collected the GI Joe and Transformers comics and they were super excited that characters died in the comics. i didnt want my characters to die back then so i didnt read.
I liked when Hama would create a character to kill them--Like General Flagg, Scarface, Soft Master, etc. But it's hard to watch Quick Kick and Doc die
One thing I loved about G.I. Joe Resolute they tried to resolve the cartoon and comics together. I think it did a good job with it.
Great vid and topic. I was 9 in ‘83 and remember the cartoon. In fact, when I bailed out in ‘88 (discovered both drums and girls😂) I still hadn’t realized there were comic books. I had never gotten into comics at all. In fact, outside of MAD magazine, there wasn’t a whole lotta reading. 😂 But I have gone back over the years and have appreciated the journey as well. So, while I discovered the cartoon first, I thoroughly enjoyed the comics and variations on the characters.
Who needs reading when you are a teenager when you have drums and girls? you picked wisely
Definitely the comic book for me. The atmosphere I get, that feeling it creates for me is my Gi joe. My nostalgia.
The cartoon was able to shape many of these characters personally much more, However the comic was able to give us a variety of combat situations and many more characters.
Some were prominent in one medium while nearly nonexistent in the other.
The cartoon is considered a classic, however stopped being produced decades ago.
The comic is STILL being printed!
Yeah, i wish the cartoon had a few more seasons. Sunbow was great. The DIC crap is awful
The comic developed certain characters more, the cartoon developed others. For example, Snake Eyes, Storm Shadow, Scarlett, Stalker, Hawk, were far more developed in the comic. Characters like Lady Jaye, Shipwreck, Tomax and Xamot, and even Sgt Slaughter, were more developed and featured in the cartoon. I look to both the comic and cartoon, for my definitive versions of certain characters.
Definitely Sci-fi lite, comic book version for me.
The comic version of G I Joe (ARAH) is what I consider to be the only true, in its pure form of what G I Joe should be.
It is a pretty amazing story well-told
Man you nailed it as to the better version between comic and cartoon. I love the cartoon but I cant consider it canon if there has to be one. The cartoon which I watch almost daily on youtube is totally batshit crazy. As a former serviceman I laugh out loud at the crazy aspects of the cartoon that I didn't notice as a kid.
Yes, it basically hits every weird sci-fi idea you can think of
Comic book all the way. I think the Chuck Dixon 20 something issue series is great also. The first two cartoon mini series were the best.
I think you hit it right on the mark. The cartoons REALLY had the universal presence with the actual toys. But coming up from the era of 64-76 Joe, Mego, Big Jim to Micronauts and Star Wars after Adventure People clicked with kids as the new standard, seeing ARAH come out in 82 blew our minds! Main complaint was always the lack of articulation in the SW line compared to Buck Rogers, Black Hole, or even cheap off the rack figures.
Then Joe comes back in full glory with Snake Eyes just as bad ass and mysterious as Fett! And the vehicles!
PLUS they fit in our SW ships AND sets!!! BOOM! Hasbro didn’t throw the gauntlet. They dropped a nuke on the entire toy industry.
As for the comic… We only had the local corner store near enough to walk/run/bike to at the time. Competition was FIERCE to get to that comic rack… So, for me at least, it was the toys and cartoons.
I REALLY wanted those comic compendiums that came out a few years back. I can’t justify the crazy price tags for them now. I’ll stick with my toys!!!🤣🤣🤣✌️🤘🇨🇦
Yeah, Star Wars had the greatest story to pull from, but are not very well-made toys. GI Joe blew them away.
I found a website where i can read all of the comics for free. Otherwise, yeah, it'd be way too expensive
great video. i love the channel. with all of the joe channels on youtube you do great original idea content.
Hey, thanks a lot! That is a great compliment
I have always felt that real canon is a mix of two things: the file cards and ones owned by imagination when playing with the toys.
I love both the comic and cartoon, I see both of them as classic pulp-fiction action adventure, that combine many genres. Take the best from both of them, going forward.
I always thought a team of Chuck Dixon writing g and John Romita Jr as artist would have been great on GIJoe.
Loved John Romita jrs run on Daredevil
Chuck Dixon’s run has aged well, despite the glaring BS he did with Duke. 😂 Mike Costa is a genius IMO with his Cobra Run that intertwined with Dixon’s story.
@@mamunestor Absolutely agree! The Costa Cobra comics are amazing
@@mamunestorShame his TF run was DOGSHIT.
I grew up with the cartoon as a kid but the comic is the actual canon in my books. The story was light years bette and it was told by its creator. I mean...that pretty much confirms what the actual canon is in my books.
Yes, He is somewhat the George Lucas of the GI joe universe, although he had a lot of collaborators. It is great he still gets to write the comic to this day
COCO in issue 1 is savage !
I love GI Joe RAH Cobra Commander same as I love Transformers MTMTE Starscream, evil but in a comedic way. I definitely identify more with the villain, but as someone who has studied acting, the complex characteristics of Cobra Commander and Starscream is fascinating. Especially when you wonder how characters so inept could hold that much power.
Yeah, I guess I should say I appreciate the voice acting of Cobra Commander, but he is a little bitch, and I never found that take fun. I still hear that screechy voice everytime I made him talk
Really interesting topic! The comics are much more in-depth with backstories and character development. The cartoon and toyline were what I experienced first as a kid, and because of the nature of the show, it was "kid friendly". Similar to kids of the 90s getting into X-Men and Spider-Man through their respective animated series. They didn't necessarily have to be experts on the 30 plus years of the comics story and continuity. I think eventually fans have their own idea of what is canon to them mostly defined by their preferences while recognizing other adaptations/versions. That may vary, but I think each version has its merits, and good/bad.
Thanks. yes, I think some of the fun is being able to pick what is canon. There's bits and pieces of the Devil's Due run that I think really work better than what Larry Hama created. For example, Zartan's daughter Zanya's backstory was created in Devil's Due and is really great
The comic went a bit too Ninja Heavy/Crazy in the 90s.
True. larry Hama loves his ninjas
Ninjas were everywhere in pop culture back then. Sign of the times.
I loved Cobra-La in the ‘87 movie. It was a cool revelation to me as a kid to see what the real threat to the world had been all along. I’m not sure if the DIC cartoon explored Cobra-La after that.
No,. unfortunately Cobra La barely shows up again. Although they explore Cobra Commander coming back from his snake form.
The only other media I am aware of that brings in Cobra La is in the IDW COBRA SERIES, Cobra La is used as a religion that Serpentor preaches to his cult members. they actually worship Golobulous
Awesome video. I do the combination canon. File Cards for name rank and background. Comics for the real world type experiences, and cartoon for some development and voices.
me too.
Great topic! I think age is a factor, along with which one you discovered first. For me, it was the figures followed shortly after by the cartoon. I was quite young and didn't even realize that the comics existed until a good year or year and a half later. The cartoon was my doorway into the fandom, as you rightly described it. So, I will always have a soft spot for it. Naturally, once I started reading the comics and collecting all the back issues, I fell in love with it. I can understand now that the kids who were older than me and started with the comics had a disdain for the cartoon. I enjoy them both for what they are. And of course, we all have memories of the stories and battles we made up playing with the figures. Good call on Firefly being the Boba Fett of the Joe Universe. Such an underused character in all platforms! I guess my canon is a mix of all three.
I love em both. The comic for being so weird and fun and creating the iconic voices, and the comic for telling a story I felt was almost above my head back when I was 10 years old. But yes, a mix of all three is the way to go
For me, my Joe Journey began in 1982 with Rock N Roll and the Giant Sized Issue #1 of Marvel Comics during a trip to Zayre!! The comics were ALWAYS more real and interesting, more in depth, especially when it came to being given more characters, unlike the cartoon. You got way more characters in the comics, even if they weren’t as “in depth”. And most importantly, the comics were nowhere near corny, as the cartoon had a lot of corny and just plain stupid episodes. So yes, the comic was everything!! And let’s not forget that the commercials for each issue of the comics included animated segments that were before the cartoon even began in September of 1983🤙🏻 Not to mention the fact that Larry Hama created the names of all the characters from guys he actually served with in the Army💪🏻💪🏻 But DAMN is the music from the cartoon sooo good and embedded in our memories and heads to this day!! So they’re both great of course, but the comics i can still escape into to this day. The Origin of Snake Eyes, issues #26 & #27, is to this day the BEST origin story I’ve ever seen🔥🔥🔥 But the voice acting from the cartoon makes reading the comics even more fun since you can hear each character’s voices in your head while you read🙌🏻
Ah, I remember Zayre! The comics were downright dark and adult (for a ten year old ) that's one of the reasons I loved them so
@@DestroIsMySpiritAnimal Me too man!! The “Welcome To Springfield” issue, i think it’s either 10 or 12, was nightmare fuel for a 7-8 year old for sure lol🤙🏻
Comic > Cartoon/anime > Fanfic > Movies ... The golden rule with every franchise.
I’d love to add that CC in comics had an older brother who died in car accident bc he was drunk.
I’d say CC still can’t overcome his grief. So he blames whole world in his death.
Yes, good point. That was an interesting story line.
Sgt. Slaugter!!
Yo Joe!!
yeah, he is basically missing from the comic. it's hard to imagine GI joe without Slaughter
My personal canon is a blend of sunbow, renegades, and the comic. I prefer the more serious angle, but the cartoons gave us much more depth in character development for the joes beyond snake eyes
Yes, mine too. I love the comic, but can't get the voices of the character's out of my head, and that all comes from the cartoon
This is a really good topic. I would add questions about “where does it end?” as well. Clearly the Joes of ‘84 are not the same as the recent Snake Eyes movie or even modern comics. I feel the same way with superhero comics. The characters of today in no way reflect their Golden Age (for me that’s the 80’s and early ‘90’s) incarnations. GI Joe, for me, ended with the end of the original cartoon series and Marvel comic. I picked up some alternate issues after, but they were never “my Joes.”
Thanks. yeah, I'm reading the newer comic now. Some of it is great, some of it is not so
Great video. Larry Hama's Marvel comics will always be my "canon". But I still choose to believe Cobra La exists, and the Joes know the Transformers.
Cobra La is too fun to ignore
Dam bro your channel grew, good job i love anything JOE related 👍
Thanks! I'm working on some really weird stuff coming soon
Love your videos. Here's my take: I always thought of the File Cards as to official cannon, then the cartoon was part of the story, and the comic was the other part of the story. When there were contradictions, I just went with whatever was closest to the file card, or which version of the story or character I liked best.
I think one of the problems with G.I. Joe and why it isn't' quite as popular as Masters of the Universe, Transformers, or TMNT, is the fact that they didn't have a consistent central character across media. Masters has He-Man; Transformers has Optimus Prime; TMNT has the four turtles, etc. G.I. Joe has Snake-Eyes sort of, maybe Duke, Flint, Sargent Slaughter, Hawk? Because of the comics, Snake-Eyes became the main character, but not in the same way as some of the other comparable stories from 80s toys and cartoons.
Thanks! Yes, the file cards are an amazing part of what makes it so great. I think GI Joe is deceptively popular, but just doesn't have a foothold in media with the lack of a good or successful movie like Transformers or TMNT. I believe the Classified series is currently outselling all the others
Well done video! Love the comparison of Bobfet and Fire Fly in your closing point. These characters' are solid despite how little they were used in the storyline.
Whichever one you choose, one thing is true... every time you read a GIJOE comic, I guarantee, you're hearing the cartion voice actors in your head!
100%
@DestroIsMySpiritAnimal ok, i kinda little bit fanboyed out cause the CZcamsr comments on my comment. Not gonna lie!
Love your videos man! Always a great topic. As far comics vs. cartoon I'd have to go with the comics. For me it was G.I. joe comics + the file cards providing a base level of understanding of who the characters were, personality, specialties, ect. and the toys + my imagination taking it from there. I loved the cartoon but felt the seriousness of the comic suited me better. If you haven't checked out the new Duke and Cobra Commander comics from Image/ skybound, they are absolutely amazing! I HIGHLY recommend anybody who is a Joe fan to check these two books out. Great story with some killer artwork.
I never read the comic book when I was a kid I mostly watched the cartoon I only started reading the comic book when I was in my early teens
It's pretty great stuff. Larry Hama is a great storyteller. The new IDW stuff is a good too. Especially the COBRA series by Mike Costa
i'm from the UK so Action Force is my cannon and that opens an even bigger can of worms
Oh yeah? That does add a whole other element. I do like the Red Shadows and Baron Ironblood, even though I didn't grow up with it, I want to see it added into the classified line
I just started watching your channel. Once I found out you were from RI, I subscribed. Great videos and great commentary.
Nice! Are you from RI as well?
I sure am. Newport.
You make up your own canon, pick and choose the parts you like.
I think we agree on the comic book for the most part but our takes on the cartoon and movies definitely vary. This is I think is a good thing but it's your final analysis that to me is spot on and I completely agree with. Everyone has their own Joeverse as I like to call it and it's fun to share our various opinions of the character that to me are the cannon of the entire genre. I think it's safe to say that GI Joe is in a class of it's own with others simply falling into this category trying to be GI Joe. I don't think that's a bad thing either because that in essence backs up your final take making the non-Joe stories cannon to those writing them as their own GI Joe stories whether they realize it or not. Good video. I'm looking forward to hearing more from you.
Thanks a lot. Yes, I agree GI Joe is in a class of its own. No other toy line ever did as good of a job creating backstory and lore. that is one reason why it stands out as the greatest
I never played GI Joe until I saw 2009 movie (I was 15).
So I guess my canon is what I’m writing about GI Joe
Love your name. I named my daughter after Scarlett
Since Larry Hama wrote the file cards, the comic is canon! Although the cartoon entertained me as a kid, I never took it too seriously. I look down my big nose at those who consider the cartoon canon! 😜
I even observe how Hama hears the voice of CC and Destro as Orson Wells and Sean Connory, respectively.
The funny thing is that I let the file cards guide the characters for me more than the comic or cartoon. I tried to follow their ranks to build the chain of command.
Now when it comes to the Transformers, it the opposite. The cartoon is canon for me!
No doubt, cobra commander in the cartoon was obnoxious and annoying. Then finding out he was a reptile person was really jumping the shark. CC from the comics was way way better in the comics, to be a failed used car salesman to rebuilding himself up to a world leader, because cobra was a credible world threat in comic. I do have to agree with you, just about every member of cobra was way more intense and interesting in the comic.
I love CC from the comic. He's a stone-cold sociopath
Agreed. It's so inventive and what I didn't like much as a kid, but love now is the humor. I used to hate Season 2 and preferred the 5-parters at the start of the series that were more action-oriented, but I have the opposite opinion now. So many "adult" versions of GI Joe make it so serious that it's dull. GI Joe: The Movie is easily the best story. Still incredibly entertaining to me, particularly Duke, Cobra Commander, and the new recruits' arcs. Fantastic!
We need a new G.I. Joe Animated Series Larry Hama Comics Animated Adaptation that would be sick!
Growing up with both the toys, comics, and cartoon; I loved all three!!! But when I played with my toys I took elements from the file cards and the comics to use. The comic to me is superior story telling, but I still enjoyed the cartoon. I just consider the comic and cartoon as different alternate universes per say. Same thing with the new Image Energon Universe comics. Those are just a different alternate universe for gi joe to grow and evolve with new stories. Canon to me is what you enjoyed the most and unlike Highlander, there can be more than one hehe.
Yeah, I like that take. I hear good things about the new energon universe. I need to check it out
Great video mate
Thanks 👍
I did not read the comics. But, that is where Larry Hama developed the background. So, in my opinion, the comics are the root and basis for G.I. Joe.
For me, I preferred the comic over the cartoon growing up. For the cartoon, cobra had to lose every episode (unless it was a 5 episode story). Certain characters were too campy in the cartoon versus the comic (ie, Cobra Commander). The cartoon was good for having the new characters displayed more prominently to correspond with the toy release and having short stories featuring them (ie, Lifeline or Mainframe being featured as the protagonist for an episode).
I love em both, but Larry Hama is a genius, so I definitely love the comic more
The canon for me is what ever I want it to be. I intermix the cartoon and comics. My favorite character is Cobra Commander, but I don’t treat him like an idiot, I treat him like an evil genius. In my canon, he has to be a genius. Only a genius would be able to build an entire army equipped with high tech weapons and vehicles.
Exactly. It makes no sense for him to be the guy that screams "retreat". But the voice is fun to do
Just imagine right now if that work in television today
Once I read the comic, I lost all interest in the cartoon. You make a good point about the portrayal of some of the side characters, but to me, the cartoon is for 4-6 year olds, and the comics are for preteens and up.
I’m totally with you on Firefly, loved the look, and always one of my favorite toys. But, it took a minute to realize he was barely in anything!!! To this 8 yr old-he was a ninja with guns!!!
YEah, he feels like such an important character, but it's all about his look, and his file card
These are my feelings, all day long! I totally agree with you?
IMO both mediums are equally important. One brought children to know about GI Joe, and the other gave it a more realistic touch. And still, both are remembered and valued. As an example, I can understand why there is a rivalry between Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow, but this was in the comics, and I didn't read them until I was older. For the child 'me', it was about Spirit (Native American) Vs Storm Shadow (Japanese Ninja). And to me, this rivalry was (and still is) perfect for me. The Wise Shaman Vs the Dishonored Ninja. Only downside is that there were only 3 interactions between Spirit and Storm Shadow in the cartoon.
Yes,, very true. They both competed in my 10-12 year old brain to make a weird hybrid canon. The fact that Spirit does very little in the comic is one reason why I can't go 100% all in on the comic book
Canon for me started with the file cards. I didn’t have regular access to the cartoon or comic. As a kid, the comic left a
Much more visceral impression on me. Cobra Commander’s story was so different. I only got snippets, but it was so much better than the pathetic whining character in the cartoon. However, my favorite action figure was Spirit, followed by Roadblock, so what I saw of them in the cartoon rocked. I also liked my Shipwreck figure, and that was only due to the cartoon. That said, I never used story lines from the cartoon or comic when playing with my Joe toys. We made up everything but sometimes leaned on the file cards.
Great video!
My vote is with comics. While I do agree that the cartoon did have a lot more of the 'rest' of everyone else, it had way too much Flint and Lady Jaye. I feel like Flint was in charge more than Duke was. once he showed up.
I watched GIJoe religiously after school every day but, maybe thankfully, was starting to age out by the time Cobra-La and all of that started showing up.
I'm currently working on re-collecting the comics, as they have been lost to time since my childhood. Unfortunately, it seems everyone else is doing the same as they ain't always cheap. :)
ARAH from Marvel is my canon... up to a point. But Sunbow was a fun adaptation for kids. I really hate the term canon because it implies there is one true narrative everyone must accept. I love that there's so much GI Joe that whatever makes you a fan is cool by me... even if it's something that I dont personally incorporate into my vision.
Good vid! I'm a cartoon guy. I just loved watching it after school everyday. I recently watched all 4 seasons of ARAH. Still love the Sunbow series. The DIC had some good arcs, but a lot of it was unbearable! Lol I enjoyed Sigma 6 too. Resolute was good. Renegades wasn't bad. To this day, I still haven't read the comics, but I really enjoyed the file cards.
So, I suppose my Joe cannon is the cartoon as a base, while mixing in all the other elements too.
Yes, DIC is horrible. I;m working my way through a re-watch right now. I'm loving how weird it is.
Comics... hands down.
The build up to issue #50, The Battle of Springfield is epic.
Larry Hama is Canon. The rest can just go away
Great thoughts and discussion. Honestly, I think the reason the cartoon had a secondary goal: bolster toy sales. Characters like Snake Eyes and Firefly didn't make the story board because their action figures flew off the j-hooks at Toys-R-Us. Alpine, Bazooka, Barbecue, and Shipwreck, however, needed help to the cash register.
I still remember my first look at the Flint action figure in the toy store, seeing that bizarre, stroke-inspired facial contortion molded in the plastic, combined with the overly-tall beret, and saying, "no way".
But with every new cartoon episode featuring Flint, it got harder and harder to say no to the stovepipe-beret stroke-face...
Nice description
For me Joe was always 90% real & 10% sci-fi for me the toon was my main way of getting in to Joe the comics had some great stories but when they killed off so many joes was crazy as a kid to read!
Yes, can't forgive killing Quick Kick. Too sad
I liked the comics as a kid, tolerated the cartoon, played with the first wave of toys, never saw any of the movies.
Yeah, you can skip those movies. they are awful. Painful. I'll be reviewing them soon to talk trash
I remember seeing the first Marvel & Sunbow produced cartoons for the comics and toys. But it wasn't until I saw the first miniseries in 1983, the MASS Device.
Duke is my all time favorite Joe as well as Joe leader. He's the sole reason I became interested in G.I.JOE. But
have you read the new Duke comic that just came out?
Several years ago there was an interview with buzz Dixon on What's on Joe Mind. The transformers 86 movie and Joe movie were the results of corporate mandated oversight. Buzz knew full well Cobra la was a stupid idea. He decided to ham it up and write a ridiculous script, hoping Hasbro execs would realize it was ludicrous and let him write something more grounded. Unfortunately they accepted his script. He has apologized for that movie and has stated he doesn't mind if fans don't consider that Canon.
The books interest me, but I never read them.
The first two seasons of ARAH are what I myself acknowledge as Canon. That movie and the DIC series were terrible.
Renegades was the best prequel to an updated GI Joe series that doesn't exist. When EID and 'Modern Day' adherence dies, I'd love to see a proper continuation.
I did love renegades. Buzz Dixon wrote an alternative series that would have replaced Cobra La called The Most Dangerous Man in the World. I DM'd him a year ago over instagram and he sent me a copy. Nice guy. It would have been a great final season for Sunbow
The comics kicked ass
Even though it is gets way over used because of Marvel and DC comics, GI Joe is one big multiverse with unlimited timeline branches. Even though I like the 82-86 joes others might favor the 93-94 Joes with outer space monsters, Star Brigade, and Street Fighter characters. Every media and Hasbro jumps the shark eventually. It is hard to say what is canon but I can say there is a multiverse.
I like that idea. And you are right, it was inevitable that it jump the shark. No toy line lasts 12-13 years, so that is way more than anyone expected
Not sure how I ended up here, but I didn't really watch the cartoon much and I only had a couple of the comic books. I made up most of my story lines based on reading the file card info and the toy's themselves. I picked my battles and favorites based on who shipped with the best accessories and who looked the coolest to me. Snake Eyes and Stormshadow always survived. Certain figures were instantly expendable based on availability. (Lifeline) At one point in time I had about 10 of him from a cereal give away so he would get strapped up with an M80 and die in the finale of every backyard battle.
The file cards were brilliant. No other toy line has been able to replicate what Larry Hama did with them. They could take a lame character and make them really fun. For example; footloose is a simple reboot of Grunt, but when you realize he's basically a stoner/ mushrooms taking existentialist guiy, he becomes much more fun
I.read the first issue of go noe yesterday for the first time and I like both cartoon and comics both have great combat action
As a kid I tried to combine the storyline from the cartoon and the comic book. It got confusing.
Agree with the villains.
As far as protagonists, I would go with Duke. You said Hama loves ninjas. Ninjas are great but I always think of GI Joe as military. That is where I prefer the cartoon.
In all, I agree with your final synopsis. Your canon is what you made it.
Yeah, Hama does go ninja crazy
"When I was a child, I played with the toys, I watched the cartoon; but when I became a man, I finally read the Larry Hama run from Marvel." - Book of Joes.
I gotta go with the comic.
great comment. Love it
On Point!
Thanks!
I back the Marvel Comic series stories as the best.
Plus those Mike Zeck covers are excellent.
The cartoon is just fun past time & every one should ignore the entire Cobra-La garbage ;)
Yes, the cartoon is very fun and memorable
So, as a guy who's been here since the beginning 1982 - to be exact, here's the thing - G.I.Joe (and likewise The Transformers) have no actual canon, which is what makes it so divisive in the first place. However, what I would say is the ORIGINS of both of these lines come from the deal that was struck by Hasbro and Marvel - the comics preceded BOTH tv shows. However, that's not totally sufficient to dimiss the shows as inferior because very easily do the shows have the massive advantage of reaching millions - there are people still today who played with the toys, but never read the comic book.
In that vein, however, the personalizations of the characters were created by Larry Hama first (and Bob Budiansky for Transformers) and were put in print in the file cards (and tech specs) and THAT is what defines 'canon' is in both of these, my favorite toylines of all time. All that said, the comic book is just plain out better in terms of action. The cartoon(s) actually committed several character assassinations in order to quickly get through 22 minutes of show. Some of my LEAST favorite characters are because of their interpretations on the tv show(s).
I know you aren't really talking about Transformers, but they did exactly the same thing in terms of comic to tv show.
Yes, I may get there eventually to talk about Transformers. I loved both.
I know what you mean, the cartoon contradicted the file cards a LOT. Beachhead is supposed to be calm and cool, but all he does is scream in the cartoon. And Bazooka is supposed to be smart, and is complete moron in the cartoon--although that is kind of fun to play with
@@DestroIsMySpiritAnimal Bazooka is the VERY example I was thinking of. Anyway, hope I didn't use too many words in my response.
Use whatever canon you want
Totally agree. Canon is my story. My play, my time with the figures. I couldn't read the comic just look at the pictures. We didn't have the cartoon in sweden and I didn't understand English. So my version of every character is canon
I have only read a few of the G.I.Joe comics. I have way more of a connection to the cartoon characters. With all of that being said, I have my own "head cannon" about the adventures because of my imagination and toys. Sci-Fi and Spearhead were integral members because they were two of my favorite figures!😁
Yeah, I also really loved Spearhead, and he's barely in any comics or cartoon.
These days I would probably be more into the comic books, but for me, the interpretation of the characters in The Sunbow cartoons is canon. They were instantly recognizable and like old friends. I remember when I saw the Dic cartoons and how the change of voice actors kind of ruined the characters for me. Resolute, in my opinion, is a pretty good combination of comic book and cartoon elements.
Some of the characters in the Sunbow cartoon, like Lady Jaye, Flint, Shipwreck, the Crimson Twins, have become the definitive versions of those characters, for me. Also probably Alpine, Bazooka, Quick Kick, Dusty, Footloose, Sgt Slaughter, and others. For the Hama comics, it would be Snake Eyes, Storm Shadow, Stalker, Scarlett, Hawk, Destro, Baroness, Zartan, and others that were heavily featured there. It just depends, certain characters were given more justice in the comic, or in the cartoon.
Yes, so many of the voice actors in Sunbow were so great, you can't get the voices out of your head.
Anybody remember that episode where Shipwreck thinks that Lady Jaye dies and he's surrounded and mentally tortured by synthetic people?
That was the 2-part "There's No Place Like Springfield", some great episodes. The 2-parters were some of the best of the Sunbow cartoon, it was where they could really flesh out the stories.
Mmm interesting idea and concept I gotta agree on some things. I never had Boba Fett as a kid I had Luke and X wing Luke as a kid from.the Kenner line. And I personally like the comic book version better it is what I seen first as a kid. And the first joe cartoon that I seen was the pyramid of Darkness and it still is my favorite.
Pyramid of Darkness has all the craziest moments: Snake Eyes breakdancing, Snake eyes dressed like Boy George. Yes, it is the most fun
Comic all the way! As for Cobra Commander, the comic shows CC at his most evil-est in issue 100… when in the 1st page, he kicks a cute dog square in the butt… pure evil🤪👍!!!
My head canon looks like Sunbow and has the soul of Hama. GI Joe was just another Marvel team comic to me, like the Avengers or X-Men. A unique group with code names, individual costumes, special vehicles versus basically a knockoff HYDRA. I had Hama’s realistic characterizations mixed with Sunbow’s alternate dimensions, ghosts, C’thulu monsters, living statues, skeleton warriors, and mind control. My Joes were really superheroes and thanks to jet packs and Sunbow rifles, they could all fly and shoot lasers from their hands. 😂
That is fun. I remember when I first got the figures I got Short Fuse. I didn't know what a mortar was. I had him hanging onto the handle as it rocketed through the sky
I kind of treat file cards as cannon or at least they formed the framework for my play stories. Even as a kid though I preferred the comics to the cartoon. One had better stories but the cartoon had some wild fun, like Cold Slither.
Still waiting for Classified Lobotomaxx.
The file cards are genius. Wish they would include them with the classified figures. As much as I hate the 93-94 line-up I'd buy Lobotomaxx. I don't even have the 3 &3/4 inch version, and I'm kinda sad I never got him
@@DestroIsMySpiritAnimal I got him partially because went to a JoeCon and on the way there was looking at a friend's book on Joe figures. Lobo came out after I stopped buying, and so when I saw it I thought it was so ridiculous I had to have it. Like you I want light science fiction in my Joes. Not aliens and portals.
For me Cannon has to be the series. I have to admit I never really picked up a GI Joe comic book until a few years after the series was off the series what I knew that I couldn't get into it. Unlike Transformers which I kept up with both series and book. Headmasters was my Gateway into the Transformers series and I went back and got back issues and caught everything up they really didn't have an entry point for GI Joe like that that I was aware of
Yeah, there are some websites where you can read all of the old comics for free, but there is a lot, so that is a big task.
I like the comics first. Toon second. Renegades third. Wish they continued and form the team.