Female Characters in Media - What Makes A Character Strong?
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- čas přidán 11. 06. 2024
- "We need more strong female characters in fiction!"
"What do you mean by strong?"
"Sexist!"
Twitter: / literaturedevil Website: literaturedevil.com/
Afterthought: literaturedevil.com/2018/09/2...
Sources:
Joss Whedon Quits Twitter: screenrant.com/joss-whedon-qu...
Tomb Raider 2013: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomb_Ra...)
24 Season One for Jack Baur: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_(sea...)
Secret of Nimh: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sec... - Zábava
We need less "Strong Independent Females" and more strong characters that happen to be women.
No, we don't need more dependent "females." Most of us can survive just fine, but make a character more realistic.
@@anncokafor Thats not what he's saying. He's saying that it shouldnt matter the character be female or male, just a good character.
@@anncokafor wtf are you talking about lmao
Yeah, just good characters.
_I see what you did, there._ Nicely done.
*"Once everybody is super, no-one is... "*
I see what you did there! Very nice :D
i love you
Don't worry, Bicycle Repair Man will always be in that world!
BUDDY!!!
@Dylan [Smith] the joke and the reference went over your head
“Courage isn’t the lack of fear. Courage is the ability to look fear in the eye and keep going anyway.”
I honestly don’t remember where that quote is from. And I’m sure there are several versions of it. But it’s the truth. The honest truth. A fearless character can’t be courageous. This stands for all characters, regardless of their other traits. Without fear, there is no courage. Without weakness, there is no strength. Without hardship, there can be no growth. It’s that simple.
kinda looks like a Doctor Who quote ? From the 3rd doctor ?
that kind of a quote is frequently used in many fictions since its a fundamental way of thnking
I think the quote is from a certain cowboy movie, I remember it being "courage is when your scared to death but saddle up anyways". But It probably does exist in multiple forms, as it's the kind of thing multiple writers could have come up with.
Im sure that this quote is mostly from a lot of fiction works. But I remember it the most from Jojo. When Zeppeli taught Jonathan the art of Hamon the first time, he told Jonathan the true meaning of courage: "courage is when you see fear and overcome it", then took vampires down like a badass.
Yeah Im a diehard Jojo fan.
Edit: this is exactly what Zeppeli said: "Courage is, when you look your fear into the eye and know, it has no dominion over you".
So basically Courage the Cowardly Dog.
I miss times when strong female characters were Sarah Connor and Ellen Ripley
Alita from Battle Angel Alita. Also she is having a movie.
Instead we get garbage tier characters like Rey and we're sexist if we realize how paper thin her characteristics are.
Who were characters first and foremost.
also clarice starling despite being a newbie and quite afraid at time she persevered
Those would've been good examples too
So Star Wars Episode VII is really Revenge of the SIF?
@Gold Coin no, golden coin
That is episode 8
That's nothing compared to _Star Wars Ep. VIII The Last Jedi._ That movie tried to legit "deconstruct" strength by making all the characters into dumb, ineffectual fools. And for it's efforts it was awarded participation trophies by professional and biased reviewers and the questionable honor of burying the whole franchise. Perhaps one further reason why SIFs rule the screens is because Hollywood is ruled by narcissists who don't understand nuance. It's either omnipotence or strength as a concept needs to be thrown out in whole. These cretins belong in therapy.
😂😂😂
@@TheJoker-qo4fg When you have a unnecessary long name in your channel
I still challenge people to come up with a better female protagonist than Mrs Brisby from The Secret of NiMH. Shes not very smart, not very strong, family dedicated, spends half the movie scared to the point of pissing herself, and honors her dead husband and his accomplishments.
LOL, posted this before you got to her in the vid.
I'd take Mrs. Brisby any day over Rey from those dreaded new Star Wars movies.
I have never seen “The Secret on NIMH” so I know nothing about Mrs Brisby, but, despite this, in answer to your challenge, may I suggest Katherine Graham as portrayed by Meryl Streep in “The Post”? At the beginning of the film she is shown as inconfident and being encouraged by her friend and advisor, and mentor, Fritz Beebe to overcome this in her appearance before the board to propose that the paper becomes a public company. During the meeting She is asked a question to which she has prepared an answer; Fritz stays silent to let her answer to show her ability, but she bottles out. Only when this happens does Fritz step in and give the prepared answer. She is also visibly shaken when Ben Bradley slams the table and tells her to keep out of telling him who to hire. Later, however, despite immense pressure from the board and the advice of Fritz, she backs up Bradley and decides to publish the Pentagon Papers and go to court, even though it could ruin her. She even tells one of the board that it is HER paper. When she says that that is her decision, the camera cuts to Fritz; despite the fact that she rejected his advice, he is smiling, because now she is confident, strong and has taken charge and, although he disagrees with her, he supports her from that point on.
Just about any female protagonist from a Nintendo game would do. Special shout-out to Samus Aran, who is pretty much the only thing the Space Pirates fear.
What about Ellen Ripley from the Alien franchise or Sarah Connor from Terminator 1 and 2 just to name an obvious few?
Not gonna lie this one felt a lot more like life advice and motivation to overcome my own challenges in life rather than writing a character. You would make a good motivational speaker.
You've just made me think. Many people have flaws, but the truly strong overcome those flaws and better themselves. The new wave feminists don't want to better themselves however. They want the world to bend towards them so they dont have to deal with their problems.
One Weakness is blaming others for things that are in the person's own control. And sjws blame everybody for things they themselves are in control of.
Joshua Reed
I have plenty of weaknesses that I have yet to fully overcome yet I’m aware of them but I become oblivious to them sometimes. It’s hard. And demoralizing. My high functioning autism doesn’t make it better. It only makes it more stubborn. And funny enough I can find some relatability in Sjw Mary Sues but immediately start to heavily differ when it comes to confronting challenges and problems and realizing I’m being spoiled or unreasonable.
I'm not entirely certain if you are critiquing me, agreeing with me, or going off on a tangent. I feel like I do need to expand on what a originally replied, to hopefully clarify.
Strength isn't just overcoming one's weakness or flaw, it's also working towards overcoming that weakness or flaw. Their are many weaknesses and flaws out their: Laziness, a hot temper, never willing to concede defeat, just to name a few. Many of these weakness aren't overcome with some act that pushes them passed that flaw, they are always being continuously worked on. Somebody that is easy to anger will never overcome that anger fully, they will always have to keep a check on that anger. Somebody that is lazy and overcomes that laziness can easily fall back into hold habits and routines, and fall as a person.
Somebody without faults, flaws, and weaknesses is somebody that we all want to be and aspire to. Who doesn't want to be an unstoppable force that can win in any scenario thrown at them? Relating to a character like Rey or Black Widow is something that everybody does, and what people want to be. Those two don't lose, they have an indomitable will, and will work towards what ever goal they have in mind. These are strengths that everybody wants, but are untenable at best, and impossible to have in the long run.
So somebody having strength is somebody that is always working towards bettering themselves. This means having goals and aspirations, recognizing one's own flaws, and continuously striving for a better self.
I don't really know if you wanted a response or not, but I don't want you to take what I wrote earlier in the wrong way.
Good art is like life. Checks out
"And if everyone is super!....
No one is..."
vjm3 if everyone is god, no one is, who said this? as. He is preety smart
the incredibles 👍
@@anduro7448 Syndrome
@@vladtepes2667 I meant the original quote
@@anduro7448 oh ok
I think Haiyao Miazaki is the perfect example of someone who knows how to make truly strong, female characters.
Take Sophie, from Howl's Moving Castle. She starts of as a shy, unconfident young woman, gets turned into an old lady, gets mixed up in Howl's flight from war, and still manages to conquer her fears. On top of saving Howl in the end. She had essentially became family to the Castle's crew.
Sophie had her moments of weakness (particularly, the freakout she had when Howl started summoning demons), and that: mixed with everything else mentioned before, made her human.
Agreed. Hayao Miyazaki's works really presents female characters correctly. And no S.I.Fs. Like, you don't really pay attention to her gender throughout the story, you just pay attention to the story. And that's indeed amazing.
Only a S.i.f deals in absolutes.
I love you.
@Darth Anjan -- So is everything... relative? The pun works but I'll file the meaning under "questionable." Too affirmative of the "Progressivism" that got us here.
I know.
@@monsterovich -- One extra thumbs-up for the Han Solo-reference.
I will do what I must.
I never thought about it but somehow they got away with having Wonder Woman showed weakness. That point where she thought she had defeated Ares but the war was still going on and her confusion and disillusionment at that moment. That part where she saw the people suffering and couldn't understand why they couldn't help them.
She really had her moments.
What I love about the new Wonder Woman is that she is incredibly naive throughout the while movie. She's like a child in this new world that she's thrown herself into, and has to grow and mature.
That turning point with Ares that you mention reveals to her just how naive she is, and she grows as a character rather than just curling into a ball after the love of her life sacrifices himself.
well... she still kinda slay Ares afterward and the war magically stop...
@@johnwotek3816 Yeah, but for a moment she was confused and disillusioned and questioning the very core her faith and there is no way SJW writers would let one of their characters do that.
They would just figure it out right away and move on or get it right the first time.
I would also say that Godot played her confusion and questioning perfectly. It was there but it wasn't laid on really thick.
@@joshuareed8243 Yeah, they've done that with Wonder Woman in various versions. The early Post Crisis version of the character couldn't even speak English when arrived just a variation of ancient Greek and had no idea what the outside world was like or how it worked.
The Justice League animated series played with the latter part but, to save time, had her able to speak English.
It is an intresting take on the character and helps underscore that she is from outside our world. That bit where she thinks the vender invented ice cream is right out of the early New 52 comics.
@@johnwotek3816 Ya I enjoyed the movie till that point. It was really good setting up more realistic characters then it went full Sat-Am cartoon for the end.
Dorthy from the original Wizard Of Oz was a stronger character than any of the female characters in media these days. Yes you can talk about how she cries and acts scared, BUT what about the other stuff? Like how she threatened Miss. Gulch physical violence if she takes her dog away. How she ran away from home but changes her mind when professor Marvel told her Auntie Em was heaving a heart attack? You guys remember when she slapped the Cowardly Lion for scaring her dog? She even killed the Wicked Witch. And she was the only person of her group to stand up against the Wizard twice. Dorthy was strong because she had a desire and goal that is more noble than anything 3rd wave feminist can achieve. To get back home to the family that loves her.
@Xenovista it's telling crappy plots with enough useful stuff on the side that makes a great kid's movie. In Finding Nemo the guy loses his son and ends up looking after the mentally disabled woman that's trying to look after him. But he pushes through because it's better than being fully alone in the search.
Well wouldn’t say “all”, but a good majority, otherwise that’d be quite detrimental to this gem here.
www.wattpad.com/story/179401625-rize-reaper
Aniyah is a female character placed in a situation which every man, woman, and child dreads, essentially the end of humanity, placed in emotional odds against her considering the male lead, Assiah, only allows so much into his heart while still trying to close it, while also dealing with the jealous ravings of Shaka, the main character’s best friend for before the wiping of humanity actually started.
This puts her at a home field disadvantage and an authority disadvantage, but she pushed through learning enough to surpass Shaka, while still under the wing of Assiah, showing determination and the will to be her best despite the fact that someone has connections capable of taking her out, a cause for concern considering even in modern day, both sexes will back down to someone of a more pristine position.
She eventually even ends up showing Assiah that well, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with showing humanity in a situation like this, something men consistently struggle with due to the pressures of society and everyday life.
She isn’t some random strong female character and yet she also is badass for pushing through her own fears willing to nurture someone else.
And she was ether the same or lower strength to the people around her and had to come up with things on the fly to get what she wanted. Strong mentally but not physically and thats what matters
You think the movie version was good? Try reading the amazing books it is (rather poorly) adapted from! For starters, Dorothy is a CHILD! She does all the things despite being small, weak, and young!
"If there is no weakness, then there is no strength."
LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!!!!
I'm trying to write a story with a lead who is a woman. Even when I was developing her, I never thought about how clever I wanted to make her. I thought about all the ways she was going to fail.
I want this character to have the same insecurities I did when I was growing up: the fear of failure and of not being perfect. I want her to make mistakes, ruin friendships, be outmatched, and cry because of her flaws. I want middle schoolers to read my book, see how my character overcame her unhealthy way of thinking, and use that knowledge to better themselves. I want my character to eventually be OK with not being "the best" and to acknowledge her other strengths, such as her altruism and sense of humor. She is going to learn that the meaning of life is found through forming relationships with people and making friends.
The character you are writing is already 100x more relatable than Captain Marvel
Buffy, Xena, Veronica Mars, Claire Bennet in Heroes, and the women in Charmed were all flawed and human characters who laughed, cried, and had many vulnerable moments of weaknesses. Those characters got scared, had insecurities, fucked up, but they chose to overcome their fears and try to fix their mistakes. They were good characters not for being women or good at fighting, but because of their relatable flaws and humanity.
Especially Xena. I mean, she actually _did_ all that evil stuff. Her archenemy, Callisto, was probably the most justified "villain" in the history of fantasy TV. In any other story, she would have been the heroine. Spot the difference between her and Inigo Montoya - oh, yeah, Callisto suffered _more_ at the hands of Xena than Montoya suffered at the hands of Count Rugen; *that's* the difference. Xena was strong in that she faced her evil and turned from it, spent her life trying to make amends. And when faced with Callisto, a living testament to her own evil, Xena had the strength to NOT fight, and to give in to Callisto's demands that she make a public confession.
I love Jessica Jones and Buffy because they have a whole range of female characters some foolish, ignorant, jealous etc... Buffy is not the smartest girl (Willow is). Jessica Jones has so many PTSD issues, including binge drinking. What sets Jessica and Buffy apart from other characters and make them heroes is that, when life challenges them to fold, they will always make the right decision.
Clarke Griffin is another perfect example
@@inazuma3gou In Jessica's case, she'll most likely make the wrong decision, and then go ahead and do the right thing, in spite of herself. She has a case of "reluctant hero" going on. Almost broken, more than enough problems of her own, but still faces down every challenge, at great personal cost. I love it. A great actress in the TV series also doesn't hurt. Unfortunately cancelled.
No, no, those don't count for the feminists. Those characters are too sexualized. They don't look like 12 year old boys and they don't hate men. They aren't realistic either.
Here's the thing,I heard a phrase that sums this up "You can only be strong,when you were weak"
meanwhile having power just makes you powerfull
having weakness makes you strong :)
It’s true.
You can’t become strong if you were never weak.
I like the style and content of your videos. I cant believe you don't have more subscribers. Also, The Secret of NIMH is one of my all time favorite movies.
I'm glad you like it! Yeah, I think the Secret of NIMH is one of those rare greats that you don't really see very often. It's a kid's film but it's also capable of delivering on more mature elements very well without going overboard.
The animation in that movie is fantastic. I have it on DVD
@@LiteratureDevil You will have more subscribers soon sir. Trust me.
Starbug Mechanic I like the movie as well and I believe Mrs. Brisby represents a strong female type mothers
My story must be sexist then. My main female character is strong but cries a lot because of the bad things she's dealt with (she falls into the badside) and she does get scared easily. Tbh she is quite vulnerable sometimes.
Sounds like good work to me
Don't worry, I'm a sexist female too 😂😂
My characters often go through different situations and cry, but overcome them. And I have female characters who are both femenine and strong.
@@setsu-chon omgsh I would love to read it!!! 😂😂 Glad I'm not alone!
@@harleydavis1818
A Singing Voice - Chapter 1 by Akukikakugawa on @DeviantArt
www.deviantart.com/akukikakugawa/art/A-Singing-Voice-Chapter-1-849123097
Here you go
@@setsu-chon Omgsh thank you ssoooo muuuch!!!!! ☺️
If there is no weakness, there is no strength - LD 2018
Perfection =/= strong character
Yeah tell that to Dante from the Devil May Cry series. So OP that its not funny anymore..
@@stevencontreras84 well there's 3 things to note though
1 Dante is a video game character meaning that outside of cutscenes he's Only as OP as you make him to be so he's Only OP if you're a good player
2 Dante has Lost several Times in his games actually most of the DMC games start with a Defeat
3 Dante as a character is far from Perfect he has severe flaws on his personality
@@stevencontreras84 being op doesn't make you a bad character, goku is pretty op and he's not a bad character at all
@@milesandrews6711
I am just gonna say this:
-Kids despise MarySues, cool I agree with that. I hate them too.
-Why dont GaryStus have that same treatment? They are terrible as well
( I am looking at you Naofumi, Seiya, Meliodas and all of those Isekai/bad shounen assholes).
That was my point...
@@stevencontreras84 do you even watch them? They aren’t perfect, naofomi was betrayed and was an outcast. Seiya was over cautious due to the death of his wife, Meliodas is practically 3000 years old and has mental issues.
They are powerful but they had a reason, the universe doesn’t bend to their will. To be honest, you shouldn’t have put the three MCs. There are a lot of bad MCs than them.
i would like to see more strong children characters , just me?
Definitely. It would be cool to see them mature
Harry Potter, Dorothy, Danny Torrens?
The kids from “promised neverland”?
Almost all of the characters from Avatar the Last Airbender.
Read the books in the Oz series! There is Dorothy, Ozma, Trot, Betsy, and more just in that series!
Other strong children can be found in the Xanth series and the Boxcar Children.
Depending on what age you consider "child", there is Fruits Basket, Animorphs, Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicles, Naruto, Nausicaa, Pokemon Adventures (the main manga series), and so many many more.
Our political views may differ (or so I assume, me being a snowflake liberal), but I think what you're doing here is amazing.
In your videos as a whole, I do tend to agree with a lot of what you are saying. As for the parts I do not...well, it's good for me to hear a conflicting viewpoint every now and again. Hearing nothing but opinions you agree with is unhealthy, and turns your world into an echo chamber. Or so I believe, anyway.
Yeah, same. I’m pretty much a “liberal snowflake” too, but I agree pretty much in everything in this video. I do have to say I don’t think feminism as a whole believes that women are inherently better than men. Most agree that putting women on a pedestal is just as bad as looking down in them. Pretty much all of these points in the video are reasonable and I think you’d have a hard time finding a feminist who thinks otherwise.
Being left doesnt make ýou a snowflake. Being left and incapable to look in the mirror or face other peoples differencies would make you a snowflake. Aint bad to be either left or right, only if you cover the mirror.
@@candywolf33 Technically yes, we could prolly find a better term for rightwinger screamers, but on principal, they are both much more similar, than they believe to be:-D And they all need a fucking labyrinth of mirrors visit. In my opinion, anyone, who is clearly unable to admit, they can be wrong themselves or have imperfections in their own standarts, have zero right to judge other people for theirs. Anyone, who is unable to listen, should consider not speaking. But saying that one side of the political spectrum is bad, is so fucking out of balance, it freaks me out. They are both extremely vital. And when it comes to us, centerlings, our role is to play mediators between them. To make them listen to each other, but in no way anything could freaking work if everyone was a centerling:-D Nothing would ever get done then:-D I mean...sometimes its extremely hard to even find the opinion I am leaning towards in certain questions. No way I could make decisions. I am just here to take the edge off. So people please, dont hate each other just for belonging to the other side of the spectre. If the other person is listening, they deserve to be heard.
@A 1995 Feminists are against egalitarianism.
@@skadi6750 Aren't snowflakes just... you know, unjustifiably, over-the-top sensitive people? I.e. the ones who are capable of getting offended at everything
Strength isn’t about being better than everyone.
Strength, in my mind, is wading through a lot of shit, and then learning and growing outside of it a changed man or woman. A character (in my opinion) should never be capable of defeating the main and/or final enemy when just starting out. If the main character is capable of such from the start, then what is the point of the journey, besides merely getting from point A to point B?
Strength, again, isn’t about being better than everyone. It’s about overcoming the weaknesses you have. Bravery isn’t fearlessness. Bravery is still being scared, but saddling up for the journey anyway.
Besides this tangent, brilliant video you mad lad. Keep it up!
Most of all it breaks the "canonical" arc of storywriting. If you don't build up a conflict in act 2, the resolution in the climax in act 3 is meaningless. If you cannot show that your antagonist is powerful and could win against the protagonist, the protagonist's triumph over him becomes hollow.
The main difference between a Mary Sue and a strong female character is that a strong character achieves their goal through hard work and determination. The reason so many "strong female characters" end up as the former is because most people simply believe making a female character perfect and OP makes them a good character (of which it of course dosen't) and forget to paint them as human characters that struggle and learn along their journey.
A strong character is someone who can overcome their weakness.
Especially when playing video games I noticed: when it comes to male characters there is so much diversity, you can have everyone from a lovable loser to a tough battle-hardened soldier, but when it comes to female characters a lot of times they only come in the versions badass with never or barely showing weakness or adorable, nothing in between.
Because women are less interesting and funny than men.
Ironically, if the sexes were reversed and a male character acted like a stereotypical strong female character (a strong man that don't need no woman, and belittle every woman that tries to help him), he'd be seen as an example of toxic masculinity.
The funny part here is that "Strong Independent Female" usually means = "Male"
I find it amusing that Feminism is subtly implying being Feminine is Weakness
Nah, he'd be called a Sigma male.
Which is supposed to be toxic, but I don't know if people see the irony of the archetype anymore. I think nowadays when someone makes a Sigma male meme they mean it genuinely.
Seeing the rise of “masculine women” I myself began thinking about what strength actually means and if it only applies to physical strength and toughness in character.
This thought branched of into thinking that okay, for men that physical strength and keeping calm calculating mind is what makes them strong but women likely have some other way of being “strong” that doesn’t evolve physical strength or being rude in character.
Like for instance, morale and emotional decline in a group in a story. Perhaps the physically strong male has no way of fixing it, however say there was a female character with more feminine traits and could offer that motherly care to the group to boost up the emotionol state of the group (At least has the higher likely hood of doing so), is that sexist or empowering?
You know eg. Say there were male knights in a fantasy world on a long and tiring journey and they’ve just suffered a massive defeat from a monster or something and they come across the home of a young woman who offer hospitality and offers care similar to that of a mother and that boosts the emotional states of the knights and gets them willing to continue their journey.
Maybe to add to it, we could say that the woman could have been afraid of knights before (for whatever reason), but after seeing their poor state for their sake she decides to help out, reluctantly at first but then does so more respectfully And comfortably.
Not sure if that example would get flagged among SJW’s though. I mean maybe you could throw in a competant female knight too to balance it out (who has weaknesses like everyone else of course).
And watching this video I really like the point made there. There is no strength if there is no weakness - one can’t exist without the other.
Mishaal Kisan honestly, to me the scenario of a woman helping out a wanderer out is a pretty boring concept, as well, I’ve seen it so many times around me, it’s probably become one of those terrible cliches to me at this point.
@@ms.lizzyblitz3474 Yeah I know, I was just using it as an example (But if there are any more interesting ones, do tell, some inspiration would be very nice too :) )
masculine woman =/= S.I.F. or any other monster from SJW's wet dreams
I think these are all valid ideas, what’s somewhat problematic is the inherent separation you seem to make between male and female characters. There are differences between men and women, but much of that comes from nurture and variables that don’t allow for a clean-cut division where sex always corresponds to character. Especially in a society where gender norms aren’t super strict (for example a medieval setting, which would cause restrictions in abilities, if not in character), it’s therefore important to accommodate differences. All men are not burly warriors and all women are not caring mothers. Character, education and profession can differ greatly within people of the same gender, making it unrealistic for all individuals to fit the mold assigned to their demographic, especially with no justification, with one who subverses it thrown in these for good measure. On the other hand, stereotypes are partially based on truth, which means it’s important not to go overboard the other way around, because it will make it harder to relate to the characters and it will be fairly noticeable to the audience, making it look like you’re trying to push an agenda.
Essentially, don’t make all women knights and men caregivers to about SJW rage, but I think it wouldn’t fly to just have 1/10 female character be a knight while everyone else is a dutiful housewife. Depending on the setting, it would be realistic to have more female warriors, but even in the most realistic medieval setting, women (and men) should be a mix of kind/mean, gentle/harsh, caring/selfish, dedicated/reluctant... I think the main issue is when characters don’t have a realistic amount of difference amongst themselves.
I also don’t think it’s wise to stereotype strength. Women can achieve physical strength, albeit with more work, and men sometimes cannot or don’t want to. Intelligence, cunning, nurture, protection, fear/bravery and many other characteristics can make characters of both genders strong. Sexism doesn’t lay in the main strength of a female character to be her motherly instinct, but rather in the idea that that’s what all women are, can be and are supposed to be.
Plot twist!
The Grim grouse of a guy gave his forgiveness because it wasn't worth his time to hold a grudge and just wanted to move on with his life, his mission and the meeting that caused the incident was in and of itself, transient. He is foul because ultimately life has made him a nihilistic pessimist.
The Happy-go-lucky guy is light-hearted and forgiving because he held a grudge once and it cost him dearly. His love left him because he held onto something petty, a sleight that arose because of one of his darker moments for which he will never forgive himself. He projects a happy facade so that others will not have to suffer on his behalf.
What You want is more people like Luigi
@Giratina 776 -- _MAAAAAAA-RIOOOOOOO?!_
Thought the same thing.
@@LieutenantSilver Why the fuck did I hear that
@@user-vs6oe8fl3m
LMAO same
MAAAAAAAAAAAAAARIIIIOOOO
I hate how well his message goes with Luigi in Luigi’s mansion.
@Blue Moon Candy mario can be a good character if you think of him as insane or really good at acting
We love the brave more than we love the fearless.
I know this is late, but this reminds me of one of my favourite characters of all time, Emma from The Promised Neverland.
She is the oldest child in the "orphanage" and when she finds out the truth of said Orphanage, takes it upon herself to be the mother figure of the situation to all the younger children in the orphanage. Together with Ray and Norman, they figure out and plan their escape, facing the fears of the authorities in charge of running the building. Facing challenges head on and braving the risk of death at many corners. She is also naive as she is still a child, but also incredibly intelligent due to plot reasons I don't want to give away that can rival an adult in the room.
There is a lot about Emma I could rave about, but the simple point is this. She is a good character that happens to be a 11 - 12 year old girl. Not a strong 11 year old girl that can do everything on her own, NO! If you know the story, what Emma achieved almost certainly couldn't have happened without the assistance of Ray and Norman. 2 boys who assisted her throughout their endeavour. I use Emma and sometimes other characters as the epitome of what female characters should be like. A lot of western people could take a page or 2 out of the Japanese books sometimes man.
I like how your avatar look.
Look's like a proper lawful evil devil who would completely destroy you while being excessively polite.
Lawful for life
Now if we only had more people like you making movies, I may actually start going to the theatres again
What the hell is happening with writers? A lot often when it comes to writing a woman she's either Mary Sue or damsel in distress. It's just boring.
And I remember critique of black widow, aaand it was hardly political. When you make a character whoose at the moment most defining trait is being a woman you do characterisics wrong. And thus infertile ploy.
Edit: Tomb Raider was at the time used as an example about depicting strength in characters: wanna make woman strong? Hurt her. Wanna make man strong? Hurt him and his wife. When a writers gallops this far it's hard sometimes to think that they don't know that they should write women just like men. Meaning they should write them as humans
Have you seen a notable difference in how women and men write characters? Would you say most authors can only write one sex well?
Decades ago, writers were better and there were no Mary Sue's!!!1 Damn SJWs destroying my media and totally not capitalism!
@@user-vs6oe8fl3m capitalism has created some of the best masterworks in history, considering we've been a capitalist society for over a hundred years and in capitalism what appeals most people is what will be promoted. This is no capitalism's fault, tho.
@@mrknarf4438 Something specific to the system itself isn't the fault of the system?
Nowadays it's more about creating an appeal not searching for something appealing or just making another sequel or a reboot of a franchise.
@@user-vs6oe8fl3m Sjw is the consequence of a very loud minority trying to change something that used to work. A good story sells more than a bad, diverse one. In a capitalistic society, what doesn't sell isn't made. If anything, capitalism will eradicate sjw once they notice it's destroying their most lucrative franchises.
I remember in the Secret of Nimh when she was going into the dwelling of the Owl. She was 100% certain the owl would kill her, yet she knew if she didn't go in she Timmy her son was 100% going to die.
Great Owl: "STEP INTO MY HOUSE"
Mrs. Brisby: (Closes her eyes, looks down) "Timothy..... Remember Timothy....." (Opens eyes, defiantly looks forward, finally moves forward)
Truly was a great character, and also really great example!
Hello there. I am a feminist. And every single part of you critique of the characters is correct. I don't agree with ALL the points that fellow feminists make, but also I don't disagree also. This isn't going to be a "I'm not like other feminists comment". All I want to say is that I am not an automaton. Your "hot take on what women in films can be" is actually the same hot take as most feminists make.
We don't like Mary Sues either! They are boring. There are comments here that say "we need more characters who happen to be female" and to that I say "YES. YOU UNDERSTAND FEMINISM. YOU AGREE WITH US!!!".
I would like to point you to a 2 CZcamsrs called Eric Taxxon and Innuendo Studios who say different things. Eric makes the point that he even wants gay people in bad films, because even a bad representation is a representation (and he's broudly speaking an SJW feminist). Innuendo however speaks about how different tropes can pigeon hole women in action films and make femininity equal to weakness in terms of how it's viewed, he makes the argument that Mad Max Fury Road actually does the opposite and doesn't focus on the character's femininity as a trope. They are just character dthat all happen to be female :)
We are not boogiewomen who act as some kind of on Zerg-like hivemind. We can think and we do argue A LOT. The one thing the left loves more than arguing with rightwingers is arguing with other leftists. The points you are making are good and correct... But we didn't cause them, bad writing did.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm glad you enjoyed the video! I'm also glad that we can agree on, at least, some of the points if not most on what makes a good/interesting character.
@@LiteratureDevil I may not like how much you scapegoat or the point you try and push with it but at least you are polite. To me politeness is the basecoat of life and I'm glad you at least take the time to engage with folk like me rather than just being backhanded and nasty.
@@LiteratureDevil but on a point more relevant to your work; feminists at large are in relative agreement with your stance that the big corporations are just (in right wing terminology) virtue signalling. I can't remember the term we use for it at the moment (it's on the tip of my tongue) but the point is that it's the big people in their ivory towers making stuff with a broadly good message purely because it will sell and not because the messege means anything to them. Plus it can be taking the aesthetics of feminism and using it to push bad ideas in a way that can trick people into thinking that they are good.
However what I don't see is nuance enough from our detractors to recognise that that isn't us. You can be a feminist and dislike modern media.
At the same time the actual critique that we present of things like Black Widow is more about the way in which tropes normalise things. Fine give a character depth, and fine don't resolve their problems if your universe is supposed to be grim-dark, but it's "problematic" if you begin to just openly suggest feminity is someone's weakness, especially if they are one of the few if not only feminine characters portrayed.
(Side note. Problematic isn't saying *WE SHOULD BAN THIS*, its left wing language used to describe that feeling you get when you think "something's not right here, maybe we need to think about this")
On the other hand Captain Marvel was a bad, at best mediocre film... but I don't like Marvel films all that much anyway. It used some of the aesthetics of feminism and gave a good enough messege... but again it mostly felt like corporate chauvinism with a bow on top. Is this a problem? Well I guess so, but it's not going anywhere soon unless capitalism is, so I will take it on the shoulder and say "eh, the at least the messege was good enough". It's nothing better or worse than another film of its ilk and I'm not gonna loose any sleep over it.
@@water594 I'm only nasty to nasty people. But...I appreciate them also lol.
@@LiteratureDevil I'm glad you are kind at least. People get too big-headed about their ideas sometimes and just attack and I can't stand that.
If you're interested in a bit of ideology; while none of us can agree how all leftist ideology is based on the core belief of being nice to people and treating them well. Now some argue that you're allowed to get dirty to get there (and thus you have punching Nazis) but we all agree on the left that we want to remove at much suffering and unpleasantness from this world as possible. It's even in our slaggoff name you give us. Social Justice and Warrior. While of course you object to the warrior part I find it endearing to be recognised for wanting the world to be better.
Now I'm personally you're type of leftist that would argue that being polite and respectful at every oppertunity as a is a part of that. I'm not your kind who says shouting down people for a mistake is good, just having a polite discussion and perhaps parking up someone's day. :)
Including Mrs. Brisby gains you a sub. Good work, brother!
Fuck. That last quote reminded me of The Incredibles 'If everybody's super, then no one is'. You not only hit the target. You absolutely nuked it.
Honestly, I just hate the fact that they took the "no need no man" archetype to the extreme. Yes, a woman shouldn't NEED a man in her life to complete her, she needs to be able to sustain herself and handle herself because being dependent on another person is DANGEROUS (they could die, leave etc.). But that doesn't mean you aren't allowed to BE with a man, and that you aren't allowed to ASK a man for help when you need it. Men need help too, there's no shame in that. Once you know you could be self-dependent, what's stopping you from dating if you find the right guy and can form a respectful, healthy relationship? And why is it considered bad to need help with things once in a while? It's like they just want us to be emotionless robots. As a woman, I want to be able to handle myself, but I also don't want to be shamed for relying on someone when I consider it necessary. We're all humans.
Maybe the sad truth is that these Women are the Female version of the Dude that can't catch a date and turns misogonist. " *They* Don't Need No Man, so why should Black Widow? Only STRONG Women Don't Need Men."
This was a good watch moreover I found that a strong character follows the same principles as fairy tale characters follow. A good character as strengths the good me and weaknesses the bad me just like in fairy tales heroes represent the good me and villians are actually mirrors of heroes that represents the bad me.
This was an enlightening watch.
Much appreciated! Glad you enjoyed it.
I don't agree with Whedon's politics nowadays, but surely he can write relatable and believable characters. His version of strong women (in works like Buffy, Angel, Firefly) depict actually strong human beings with strengths and flaws.
Fred and cordy and lilah are his best characters, even if the real angel writers likely had a hand in it.
I sometimes wonder if he actually believes everything he says, or is just capitulating to those who are in power in Hollywood and uses his films to actually speak to the audiance.
Don't forget Dollhouse. Priya was about as strong as they come.
I liked Wheadons older works but his modern world I just find them boring, simple and lacking stakes.
I loved the part where Black Widow reveals that she was sterilized. As a woman and a mother (or perhaps just as a human), it helped me to connect with her even more. I can't imagine the mindset of someone who was upset by her showing some humanity and vulnerability, nor do I want to.
Fifteen years old. Girl. Animation major in my high school. Planning to start my own cartoons... THANK GOD, SIR. finally somebody said it! Your videos are great, especially for writing. Definitely subbing!
Awesome! Glad you're liking the videos. And good luck with your future projects
@@LiteratureDevil Thank you, and right back atcha!
My favorite Female Lead (watched on the big screen in 1979 - I was in 5th grade) is Ripley.
Scared out of her mind for nearly the whole film, she steps up to the challenge, barely saves herself and a cat.
Her image and persona drove my attractions to women for most of my young adult life.
"there is no strength if there is no weakness" wow, what a line
That’s what I really like about GRRM’s portrayal of female characters that doesn’t subvert completely the essence of a woman. It gives them an ideal to shoot for in their journey. The “strength of women” is how a woman fills herself up in order to bring life or a save life for this world. A woman has to eat like any man, but a diet on purely fearless sif energy might be as dangerous as too much sugar or salt.
I've been thinking about writing and you're really helping motivate me with your videos about literature.
Awesome!
This needs more views! Overcoming adversity is the bread and butter of character development and makes the story great. The diversity of characteristics in female characters keeps them more interesting and tell a much better story.
Grr autoplay...posted this to wrong video:
I know several strong independent women, my mother for example. Not one of them can beat up a man, not one of them is cocky or given to braggadocio, or demands undue respect. None of them have an IQ north of 200, 15 doctorates, or the head of a billion dollar company.
Where are the female role models that teach young women to aspire to real strength that they can achieve rather than banal vanity that they probably cannot?
Kinda hard to make action movie with a lot of fighting and this kind of strength. Try making "Wonder Woman" without giving her abnormal physical strength. Some things are just implied. And nitpicking that women don't have that strength is kinda useless. Yeah, noone has strength to lift a car the way superheroes do.
I have the answer, and her name is Ashoka Tano.
And edit: I understand that she is Dave Filoni's character.
"Without evil there can be no good, so it must be good to be evil sometimes." - Satan
Hinata from Naruto inspired me the most growing up, (and yeah I’m a female) and she had a line she said to Naruto that is perfect for this too:
“In my eyes, you’re a proud failure! When I look at you, I get an intense feeling in my heart…because you’re not perfect. Because you fail…you have the strength to get back up…because I believe that’s what true strength is. I think you are an incredibly strong person Naruto-kun.”
She was my female role model growing up to be honest. And this line she says is just great.
I forget who said this originally but...
We don’t need strong _female_ characters, we need strong female _characters_
"If there is no weakness. Then there is no strangth"
Just...give me a minute while I send this to every fanfiction author I know.
Thanks. This honestly just inspired me to face a very painful and difficult thing I've been putting off dealing with in my life. Sometimes it can be the smallest thing you wouldn't expect that can just so happen to reach someone at the perfect time in their life and inspire them
I have said something similar
"Strength is overcoming weakness. If you have no weakness you have no strength."
I like thinking about that when I make characters. Build a weakness then show the strength to move passed it.
S.I.F.? Wasn't Sif happily married to Thor?
Only a S.I.F. deals in absolutes.
isnt she dead? Did she die from Hela in Ragnarok?
She was never married to thor in the mcu and im pretty sure she died in the snap
Dagobert Duck No she died through the infinity gauntlet. She was allegedly banished by Loki as Odin.
@@Matixmer oooohhh
Velvet Crowe from Tales of Berseria is someone who I think is a really well written character. She may be a revenge seeking woman with demon powers but her humanity still shines brightly. She is a strong and ruthless fighter with cunning but even then she faced trauma and almost broke down completely when she was confronted by how much of a monster she was becoming. But a little boy(A total tabula rasa really) she showed kindness to understood her and was able to help her get a hold of herself. And in the story, she was used as a symbol of the dual nature of human beings.
I nearly choked on my drink when you brought up Mrs. Brisby. I grew up on that movie, I’m surprised that anyone knows that movie anymore. Such an amazing character that society seems to have forgotten.
Only found your channel a week or so ago. Loving every single vid so far. Your presentations are AWESOME
This reminds me a little bit about how there was a little controversy about Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild because there was a cutscene where Zelda cried. Personally, I thought that scene was endearing about Zelda because it showed more humanity and depth to her than she had ever shown in a LoZ game before. To constantly hit proverbial walls and worried her power would never surface, only to have it delay long enough to have let Calamity Ganon destroy everything, to have her react with emotion and despair was very fitting and relatable. Then to have it appear so she could save Link and begin to hold back Ganon enough for Link to heal and come for her while she battles for 100 years... BotW Zelda is a VERY strong character. Not even strong "female" character, but strong character, period.
Push a character into a hole and see if they can climb out. Those who do even with injuries are the strong ones, even moreso if they're carrying someone else on their back.
So glad I stumbled upon your channel- it helps me think more about my characters
Glad to hear it!
I love Nicodemus he was the most memorable and interesting character when I watch the Secret of Nimth.
Dont know how yur channel popped up on my feed but Im glad you did. your work in only a few videos really got me hooked.
Extremely well spoken. I am absolutely amazed! If only everyone could watch these videos. I feel inspired to write a new series with balanced characters now. I feel I may even add a much darker side to one of my absolute favorite protagonists in one of my series. (Watched this after the Mary Sue video)
Awesome! Give it a shot...and be sure to let me know when it's done lol.
"What is better? To be born strong, or to overcome your weaknesses through great effort?"
Thanks for the clarification! I am glad that someone is willing to be blunt, and I am also delighted you used Mrs. Brisby, I love The Secret of Nimh. I love her character and not just for the reasons you listed.
This channel deserves more love. Subscribed.
Strength in the physical is meaningless. Courage of the heart is true strength. Without fear we cannot know bravery. Without weakness we cannot know strength.
everybody should just watch Steel Magnolias.
also I really liked that aspect of black widow. like you said, suddenly she was a human and i felt for her.
Just stumbled upon your channel. Watched 3 or 4 vids now and it's A+ content. You earned a sub, keep it up my man.
Thank you for pointing out these features in characters. I love how you present these points and the examples you use. Definitely will be using some of these points in my own storytelling!
“Bran thought about it. 'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?'
'That is the only time a man can be brave,' his father told him.”
Wow, no Ellen Ripley or Sarah Conner references?
Because they are to old of a character and not modern.
@@FallenSnowWolf Oh and Secret of Nimh was way more modern?
He didn't mention it, because it happen to not cross his mind. I'm sure (through open dialogue), he'd discuss Ripley and Conner's strong (or lack there of) female traits.
@@vjm3 I mean more that they are from 30+ years ago and that modern day feminist will not accept them as SIF they need to be in modern movies to accept thme..
They get brought up literally every time a topic like this is discussed. They are great characters, but there’s others could be used as well.
No, there is no strength in picking an easy target as example
I've been watching a lot of your videos, and I've been taking a lot of what you've said and trying to apply it to my own writing to make it better
Ok, this sealed it. I've seen a few of your videos now, and I'm officially a subscriber.
Literature Devil,
During your wrap-up I thought of the movies "1984" (I never read). The lead character is tortured and his strength(s) are destroyed. My interpretation. This leads to his return to society as a cooperative member.
A person among people who are not Smart, Tall, or Strong. Seeing our protagonist being, not just acting, one of the masses is even scarier.
The society of 1984 is awful, but now it is even worse.
:-) Thanks!
You should give it a read. It has some very interesting pieces that are pretty relevant. Plus, it's an interesting story.
“You are a slow learner, Winston."
"How can I help it? How can I help but see what is in front of my eyes? Two and two are four."
"Sometimes, Winston. Sometimes they are five. Sometimes they are three. Sometimes they are all of them at once. You must try harder. It is not easy to become sane.”
Before watching, im gonna guess “strong female characters don’t act without weakness, they act in SPITE of weakness”
Edit: I was right on the money. Where’s my ❤️ at?
Thank you so much for making this video! This video has informed me so much about what to avoid when writing characters and stories. I agree on every single point you made in this video. Before this one, I've watched some several videos that I also agrees. And thanks to this, you've inspired me to go back to writing. Thank you so much, sir. You deserve a subscribe.
It's interesting that I've never come across your videos before. So far I've found myself engaged in what you're saying in what I have heard from you. I think I'll watch a few more of your videos first, but I'm definitely considering subscribing so far.
I have noticed the increase in female lead or just OP female characters in media lately. A lot of new kids shows I see the girl being into tech, becoming a worrier or being adventurous. I have seen also many more adult shows displaying the the trait were all men are incompetent except for the bad boy character is the only strong male that the female characters turns from Anti-Hero to Here.
I hear a lot of people talk about how great Buffy was, but I blame Buffy for all the shitty and poorly written movies and shows.
Yeah, I hear many people complain about this. Unfortunately, the media misunderstood what people are saying and things...well, you get the idea. Good video though😊.
This has to be my favorite video of yours yet. Very well put, and minimal bias that is addressed. A1 content you got my sub
Watch your live streams every morning, figured I would pop over here and finally check out your vids which might I say are EXCELLENT!!!!!
Mrs Frisby is the perfect example of a good protagonist who just happened to be female.
I remember back when Detroit: Become Human came out I stumbled upon this person who claimed that Kara was weak because she had to rely on men. And while Kara is not my favorite character, I still had to correct her on that statement. Relying on someone else is *not* a weakness. Kara managed to break her own code because of the fear that Todd was going to hurt his daughter Alice. He told her to stay there in the kitchen and wait but she deviated and saved Alice instead and that makes her strong. However if it wasn't for Luther, they would have died at Zlatko's place. And it makes perfect sense.
If these SJWs keep creating female characters that are strong because they don't rely on men, they'll be creating a toxic role model because some children will grow up thinking that if they can't handle their problems alone, then they are weak. They will feel like it's wrong to seek out help and they will have to go through bad shit alone while they don't have to.
Thank you for making this video and saying what *needed* to be said! I am now a subscriber!
Whoa. Mrs. Brisby? That's a deep reference my dude. I like it. Subbing atm. I love writing, this channel is absolute fire!
I love when the feminists / sjw's talk about female characters in videogames and the first one that comes to my mind is Samus Aran: orphan at the age of 9 and the sole survivor of her planet, raised and trained by an alien warrior race. That's pretty badass.
she then took on single-handedly Mother-Brain as her first mission, the leader of the space pirates whom even the federation struggled to deal with
Jorge Corea in all seriousness I think the less brain damaged ones are less mad at the concept of the character and more made at how the community looks at her.
Especially in the manga
At the age of 3 to be exact.
Rouge the Bat, Blaze the Cat, Maria Robotnik, and Tikal the Echidna comes to mind for me. Rouge is a classy jewel thief who works for the government sometimes (likely as a way for her to not be put in jail); Blaze is a princess with fire powers who had to deal with being ostracized not just for her destructive powers but her status as well as being acrophobic; Tikal sacrificed her life to save the Chao from being exploited by her own father and later helped the heroes save the world despite not being able to physically do much.
Cream the Rabbit is literally a gamebreaker who uses her pet as a nuke, and Amy is a fangirl who does major damage to enemies with that giant mallet of hers.
Excelent work
Please don't stop making these videos. I'm learning
I WAS SO EXCITED WHEN YOU BROUGHT OUT MRS BRIZ!!!
One of the things I loved in the 2013 tomb raider is how it showed Laras growth INTO the Lara we know and how the magic caused her to realize that legends might be true, so she has to seek it out to find out.
Bran thought about it. "Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?"
"That is the only time a man can be brave," his father told him.
Honestly, I have heaps of respect for lady characters who act as... well ladies. I feel modern media devalues a lot of what makes women so respectable. Women can be mothers and housewives while still being amazing in her own right. Not everyone needs to be out battling monsters and shooting bad guys. Historically, women were just as important to a functioning society as their husbands. They kept the homes clean, they raised the children, and when their husband came home, they had already prepared a warm meal for him. That might not sound glorious and empowering to people, but it's truly a noble calling.
Women don't need to be the most powerful beings to ever exist to be strong, and being a housewife or mother doesn't make you weak, it makes you invaluable.
CZcams recommended this channel to me. Very interesting stuff. Love these kinds of commentary videos.
"Femenists would balk at..anything" You caught me offguard with that one.
/clap
Sooo...
Arthur Morgan is the best character of all time?
Just about
Why did this hit me harder than an inspirational video? We are all strong individuals. We are not weak. I want to hang those quotes on my wall now.
Dude, I wanna apologize. Ive been tuning in for your channel and I just noticed I wasnt suscribed. Your content is absolutely amazing and deserves more recognition. Keep it up!