Switzerland’s Most Unpunctual Train: “Astoro” EuroCity Express Zürich - Munich in First Class
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- čas přidán 28. 01. 2023
- Train: SBB EuroCity EC 191
Train category Deutsche Bahn: EuroCity Express (ECE)
Airline connection: SWISS Air Rail
From: Zürich Hauptbahnhof, Switzerland
To: München Hauptbahnhof, Germany
Route via: Zürich Airport Kloten, Winterthur, St. Gallen, St. Margrethen, Bregenz (Austria), Lindau-Reutin (Bodensee/Lake Constance), Memmingen, Buchloe
Train operator: SBB CFF FFS, ÖBB Personenverkehr, DB Fernverkehr (Deutsche Bahn)
Travel Class: First Class
Schedule Departure Time from Zürich: 11h33 cet
Scheduled Arrival Time in Munich: 15h04 cet
Travel time (Zürich-Munich): 3 hours and 31 minutes
Travel season: December 2022
Ticket bought on: bahn.de (DB Navigator)
Ticket fare (Zürich-Munich-Berlin): EUR 113.90 “Super Sparpreis EU”
High-Speed Trainset: Astoro / ETR 610 / RABe 503
Registration: RABe 503 021
Built by: Alstom (Fiat Ferroviaria) in Savigliano, Italy
Owned by: SBB (Schweizerische Bundesbahnen)
Delivered to SBB: January 2017
Song: Mavericks by Yeti
musicvine.com/track/yeti-musi...
To clarify, this train is not late because of Switzerland, Swiss Federal Railways or the Astoro train itself.
It's late because of the incompetence of Deutsche Bahn in Germany and Rete Ferroviaria Italiana in Italy.
Switzerland's own trains operate at a near perfect punctuality.
It's the EU operators who seem incapable of running trains on-time.
(The TGV Lyria is an exception of course became France knows how to do high-speed railways.)
He said that in the video...
@@mif4731 I'm aware. HOWEVER, I've noticed on other Astoro videos that people either don't read or ignore information in the video. So I'm clarifying again in the comment section.
Ofc, the DB has no particular interest. The route will be replaced by a new one in long term. The Astoro trains can't compete with the ICE trains in terms of comfort and speed and keep up with the demands of the DB...
Everyday SBB stops many delayed DB ICE trains from entering the Swiss network at Basel in order to prevent DB delays from affecting SBB trains in Switzerland. Those ICEs are normally scheduled to run to Swiss destinations but are forced to turn around before the border
Mostly the sbb trains are unpunctual 😂😂😂😂
@@carmenhepp8505SBB trains are rarely delayed. Unless they come from other countries
Oh hey! If you look at 17:02 you can clearly see a British Rail Class 777 train that will be operated by Merseyrail starting in 2023.
Great video. Love your "no nonsense, just the feel of the railway" approach. It helped me a lot in the lockdown periods. Keep doing your thing. Respect.
Germany = Autobahn
Switzerland = Train
Excellent Video and for the Train it uses a 1.45m copper contact strip for SBB CFF FFS 15kv 16.7 also suited for FS Italy 3kv & 25kv AC HSR while a Metalized Carbon or Carbon strip is used for 15kv 16.7hz DB/OBB. Train Protection systems are ETCS Level 1 LS ZUB 122/123 Integra Signum Zurich St Gallen St Margethen and lastly the DB OBB PZB St Margethen Bludenz Lindau (Dreilanderbahn) Munchen Hbf. The Goahead Bayern train is called a BR 1429 (DB and former Abellio NRW units are called DB BR1429) which also exists as a Tri voltage version for Duisburg Oberhausen Zevenaar Arnhem trips RE19. Between SBB OBB DB PKP and Russian Railways RZD UZ Ukrainian Railways which one wins in terms of catering
only one word : WONDERFUL. Thanks.
Excellent, I also went to Zurich and back to Munich by train but with a classic Eurocity. These pictures remind me of this wonderful journey. Thank you for uploading in YOU TUBE.
All in all a great Railway Video, with many beautiful Landscape Shots
oi that delay isn't to bad. I had 70 minutes of delay when i did this trip (error with the track-switching, instantly after entering Germany). I liked those Astoro trains, they were still fresh and well maintained on the inside and very clean. Not used to that from ICE-Trains. Also the ride quality for a tilting train and those tracks surprised me positivly. First-Class Seat doesn't look to much of an upgrade to Second Class Seat. So i can see why you were not overwhelmed. Now after watching your Video i want to visit Zürich again :-)
Nice video. You caught delay in Memmingen, I caught it after leaving the first station in Austria and we stopped for 20 min, saying it was a technical issue. By the way I hope PKP Intercity will start operating Berlin - Warszawa route with their Pendolino😁.
Very interesting and informative. you have the feeling to be on the train yourself.
Nice video sir
As far as I know, Deutsche Bahn has installed digital carriage position indicators in most major ICE stations. And you can also call up the carriage position in the DB app.
Great video - thanks!! Unfortunately, I have not yet ridden this train myself. But I see the train very often, because I live near the line in Vorarlberg.
2 errors have crept in. That are not the Allgäu Alps at 18:10 - they are the Austrian mountains.
And the Bregenz station 19:07 is in reality considered one of the ugliest stations in Austria. Actually, it should already be torn down, but there are still quarrels between the city of Bregenz and the ÖBB regarding the new construction.
Great video, and in HDR too! 😊
Enjoyable video, many thanks. I guess 3hrs 31mins is still comparable with flying between Zurich and Munich, taking into account the journeys to and from airports and check-ins etc. DB certainly do seem to have problems. We had a bad experience in Sept 22 when our Cologne to Basel train was 1 hour late leaving and then unexpectedly terminate at Karlsruhe. Overall we were 5 hours late getting to our destination in Switzerland.
Super video
In terms of dining car, I believe they should introduce some rules such as: a) No dropping your bags on empty seats; b) Drinks only at the bar. It would arguably improve the situation - provided they add at least one staff member.
In Rorschach this is a RABe 512… not 502
Schönes Video! Diese Zugverbindung habe ich vergangenen Sommer auch benutzt als ich einen Flug ab/nach ZRH genutzt habe um zum bzw. vom Züricher Flughafen zu kommen.
Ich kann deine negative Meinung über den Zug als solchen aber nicht ganz nachvollziehen. Ich finde das Ambiente (vor allem in der 1. Klasse aber durchaus auch in der 2.) deutlich schöner und angenehmer als z.B. in den deutschen ICEs und im ÖBB-Railjet (okay, Railjet Business-Class ist nochmal ein völlig anderes Niveau). Ich kann auch nicht nachvollziehen wieso du diesen Zug als enger empfindest. Diesen Eindruck hatte ich jedenfalls überhaupt nicht.
Nice video! I also used this train connection last summer when I used a flight from/to ZRH to get to and from the Zurich Airport.
I can't quite understand your negative opinion about the train. In my opinion the ambience (especially in 1st class but definitely also in 2nd class) is much nicer and more pleasant than, for example, in the German ICEs or the ÖBB Railjet (okay, Railjet Business Class is a completely different story). I also can't understand why you think this train is narrower either. At least I didn't get that impression at all.
Mir geht es ähnlich der vielen anderen: komme ich aus einem ICE ist der Astoro ein deutliches Downgrade. Besonders in der 1. Klasse. Der ICE ist einfach stimmiger, ja edler und vor allem das Problem mit den Sitzen: man fühlt sich wirklich eingeengt...
I absolutely love the first class seats in the Astoro. Great comfort, compared to the leather seats of Deutsche Bahn! :)
Beautiful video. Can you drive the old routes with the night train between Berlin and Bulgaria like Varna or Burgas?
interesting thing is, that EC/ECE Zur - Mun departured/arrived from/to durchbahnhof, not kopfbahnhof, and have different travel time between Zur - St.Gal(they are 2min faster=57min, then ICN/IC=59min, which is also tilting and make same stops)....and still aren´t on real 2h takt(after cutting travel time to 3h31min/3h32min)....6x trains on each direction + new 1x on each direction(only between april - october, from Zur on friday/from Mun on sunday)
Keep up the good work! I love your video quality. Which camera did you use?
Maybe i takes another 50 years to upgrade from singeltrack to double track on the german line. 😅😂
Fun fact. Lindau-Insel was formerly named as Lindau Hauptbahnhof prior to December 2020, and Lindau-Stadt prior to 1936. Also loco hauled trains were used on this EC route before they were replaced by RABe503 Astoro tilting trains, and SBB loco hauled those trains between Zurich and Lindau meanwhile DB haul them between Lindau and Munich
It was very late when I took it from Munich to Lindau last August. Other than that, it was a nice comfortable train and the dining car was great. A few days later I caught a morning service from Lindau to Zurich and it was on time and drama free. The scenery of the Bavarian and Swiss countryside combined with the lake is some of the best in Europe.
sure; good scenary on the way, esp. lake constance
In November 2021 I have taken this train from Munich to Lindau(Reutin) for a week of vacation there. It had been delayed for 6 minutes when we arrived at Lindau Reutin. But coming from Germany, that's nothing for me...
And for the car position indicators - DB is changing their track monitors to newer models, they're also able to show the car positions. Maybe there had been too many complaints? I've seen that in Leipzig when I visited my family for christmas...
18:13 Not Allgäu but the Bregenzerwald Mountains in Austria. I see the Mörzelspitze, for example
The ETR610/RABe503 never used to stop 30mins for the system change.
In the first year, there were 5min from CH to A and 7min A to CH used for system change. When getting back to Switzerland, the drive had to open the Piastra (SCMT-part) again, which must have been closed when driving to Austria and Germany.
In 2022 the SBB updated 503 014 till 022 to ETCS Baseline 3. The Piastra can stay open now. The System change is for the saftysystem changes on the border between Lustenau (A) and St.Margrethen (CH) in moving transition now. The Pantographs are getting changed also while driving in Rheineck. Both happened before in St.Margrethen while standing.
26:11 You're absolutly right. An impudence
The SBB astoros are thankfully getting an overhaul soon, so we should have some improvements on them
A bit of nit picking in some of the comments, I enjoy your posts because you call it as it is, keep them coming
We took this train last month from St Gallen to Munich. Sad to say, it did not live up to my expectations. It arrived at my starting point 15 mins late which is not a big deal. We had to change platforms last minute though. The one that disappointed me the most was the broken restaurant car in which they were only able to serve coffee and nothing more. We arrived at München Hbf 20 minutes late. The audio update wasn't much helpful as the announcer had horrible, unintelligible English (never had that trouble with other Swiss trains during my one-week stay.
On the upside, the train looks cool, had comfortable seating, and the price was good for a Swiss train. The scenery is awesome as well, giving riders views of Lake Constance and Bavarian Alps. And the ride experience was less horrible than the connecting ICE we took where it was horribly late and we were forced to stand for most of the duration.
I'm surprised the most delayed trains in Switzerland are not the RE from Milan C.le to Locarno
yes; the regional trains from milan into switzerland are also a good candidate for most delayed train title
Peeping all the ride is torture, more when you ticketed first class. By the other hand, the ride was nice ... thanks. 🇺🇾
The beeping is from ETCS system. This ETR610 looks very silmiar in cabin to polish Pendolino.
Technically, the beeping is from the GSM-R system.
in this town here at minute 0:51 I'm every day :D
It was a joy to watch this video and learn some new things as well. I’m looking forward to new videos from you!
I just have one little constructive criticism: Some of the text was scarce to read and others were too long on the screen for me.
Ps. I think delays are worse when the train comes from Germany than when it comes from Switzerland.
Die Züge kommen manchmal nicht so wirklich pünktlich aus der Schweiz, scheinbar gibt es da auch Problemchen. Heute zum Beispiel kam der 191 mit +12 in Lindau an
@@Tester-zo4eh Ja. Manchmal fährt der Astoro auch 2-3 Minuten später ab oder aufgrund der vielen Fahrgäste dauert das Einsteigen länger als geplant und deswegen verspätet sich der Zug.
Kann aber natürlich auch sein, dass der +12 Astoro in Bregenz Probleme hatte und darum später in Lindau eintraf, was ich jetzt aber nicht verifizieren kann.
@@Trainspotting_Trips Meistens passiert beginnt die Verspätung sofern sie in der Schweiz entsteht im Bereich St. Gallen oder St. Margrethen, ich weiß nicht ob es dort irgendeinen Engpass oder so gibt
@@Tester-zo4eh Kann sein. Ich weiss es aber nicht.
@@Trainspotting_Trips Also läuft nicht nur in Deutschland bei dem Zug nicht alles glatt, sondern auch in der Schweiz nicht alles optimal.
Well that was a strange experience for sure. Where is typical German "Ordnung"? And why in the hell are DB unable to repair all the tracks as fast as possible?
It's a useful service, but punctuality is apalling. I did Munich - Zurich before Christmas and the train is slow (using regional lines) in the first place, but we were over 40 minutes late for no real reason. Turned out to be over 4hrs for 330-odd kilometers. Certainly not what a Munich to Zurich service should be.
But I was on holiday so I didn't care too much.
Appalling indeed. Such a shame for a border train between Switzerland and Germany, two countries known for their impeccable observance of time. While I don't mind taking this service again if I happen to pass by the same route for my future holidays, I'll take their time schedule with a grain of salt just like I do with always-delayed flights in my country
@@luke211286 Same here, I'd use it again for its convenience. The idea is good, but with the single track sections and regional lines this service is just doomed to be unpunctual. Once you're in Switzerland you're lowest priority too, to keep the Swiss rail trains on time. Looking at it all, there really is no way this service can work as advertised, just gotta accept the delays.
I took that train once, it was packed to the max..
17:03 what kind of train is THIS? 🤔🤓🤔
Are these the new Stadler emu for Liverpool?
Yes for Merseyrail
In case you didn't know, that was the Factory of Stadler Rail
15:52 The new RABe 512 not RABDe 502
The train you ride on is a RABe 503 build in 2014 and is not a ETR610 that was build earlier than 2014
it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elettrotreno_Cisalpino_ETR.610?wprov=sfla1
Gli ETR.610 (classificato anche RABe 503 Astoro) sono un gruppo di elettrotreni ad assetto variabile, acquistati dalla cessata compagnia italo-svizzera Cisalpino nel 1997, e costruiti dalla Alstom Ferroviaria, utilizzando la piattaforma denominata Nuovo Pendolino.
really. not an etr 610 ?
@@doc7austin yep
8:21 Well, it's a tilting train, so it's narrower than a normal trainset.
Can you use the Eurail pass for this train???
24.23 can you explain why?
Minute 4:32 / Minute 15:47 :
Class 502 SBB Twindexx Swiss Express by Bombardier: The infamous and failed WAKO project. 200km/h / 100to400m / up to 1300 seats per train / mediocre comfort ... very efficent cleaning maintenance design / categorie IC/IR
Class 512 SBB InterRegio by Stadler: A proven and solid 160km/h-150m train
A random fact about Buchloe is that the German automaker Alpina which specialises in modified BMWs is based there
good point about buchloe
That is like saying the highest point in the Netherlands
So this is what counts as “unpunctual” in Europe?
In America, delays are like bad gas: impossible to avoid on trains.
Hello. Train delays are relatively common in Europe (in many countries and above all in Germany, which is a catastrophic country in this respect) but you have to keep in mind that the Swiss railways are extremely punctual: they're often compared to - a Swiss clockwork. This is essential background info to understand why this particular train is viewed as a disaster.
26:14 You are always free to table share. But as I see, the restaurant car is not full.
i took videos of the restaurant only towards the end of the journey; it was full most of the time
@@doc7austin In this case, it’s normal to sit with strangers. If they block the seats with luggage, you kindly ask to put the away.
13 euros for soup, only in a Swiss train lol
"most unpunctual" Swiss train when all the delay comes from Italy xd
also delays are imported from germany
As for IC Pendolino entering Germany: service in 1st clas includes a meal served to your seat so... why not? SBB is a very rich railway company - much richer than PKP IC and still they hire only one man to maintain a restaurant car - for your consideration ;) As for the delays on this line: if they happen, why don't cooperating rail companies revise the schedule? Why don't the just put some more extra minutes to the ride-over? Thus the delay is not the object in my opinion comparing to the delays on Polisch network.... ;)
A meal included in first class isn't common in Germany nor Switzerland. Id rather buy something I'd actually want.
Took the train yesterday, was perfectly on time both ways. The on time performance should still be improved.
@@Kletterhaus It's not included in Germany, but in all ICE trains you can order from your seat (in 1st class), instead of having to go to the restaurant car. Recently it even became possible to order via wifi, so that you no longer need to wait for a conductor to come by
@@bcarp The Wifi ordering hasn't work for me yet.
The chance of getting food on an ICE is about 50/50. There's often a defect or something else.
Sorry to correct you: 19:05 Bregenz station is considered one of the ugliest train stations in austria. Hopefully the new station will be build soon.
And at 18:15: these are not the Allgäuer Alpen. You are traveling in the austrian rhine valley and that are the austrian alps in the background.
27:40 Maybe It's a Sifa.
Should be the ETCS commonly used these days in switzerland. But it normally doesn't beep like crazy every 5 seconds...
Thank you for this interesting video. The Astoro ETR610 trains are a big disappointment. They are too narrow, and the suspension is far too noisy. It is interesting that only SBB trains are used on this service between Zurich and Munich, and it’s a great shame the SBB did not buy more of their excellent RABDe500 tilting trains for this service. You passed several of those units near St.Gallen, and they are used on the excellent service to Geneva Airport via Zurich Olten and Biel, where their tilting mechanism is used to great effect. The newly electrified line from Lindau to Memmingen should have been doubled throughout, and upgraded even more for real high speed running. A great disappointment.
The ETR610 aren't that bad. Yes they might not bee the best trains SBB has but they certainly aren't a big disappointment. (For example they are one of the two only trains SBB has with Wi-Fi)
And they also only use SBB trains on this line becuase they can't really use Trenitalias ETR610 for a service neither starts, end or pass through Italy.
And they also can't use the RABDe 500 because they aren't equipped for travel in Austria and Germany. They would need to equip them with extra german pantographs and also the German PZB train control system because from St. Margrethen onwards the line isn't equipped with ETCS. And finally 30 years ago when these trains were ordered nobody knew that (or more when) this line will be electrified and these trains could even potentially be used there. But I agree the ICN are probably some of, when not the best trains SBB has it's a shame that they are only still used on the IC5/IC51 service.
Exact information again !!! 🥸🥸
Thanks for an insightful video. I much prefer the scenery over these cold looking, sterilized, plastic trains of today.....
Not for nothing are the former ETR 610 Pendolino of Cisalpino
but the train in the video is a RABe 503. build in 2014.
@@Pendolino612 it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elettrotreno_Cisalpino_ETR.610?wprov=sfla1
Gli ETR.610 (classificato anche RABe 503 Astoro) sono un gruppo di elettrotreni ad assetto variabile, acquistati dalla cessata compagnia italo-svizzera Cisalpino nel 1997, e costruiti dalla Alstom Ferroviaria, utilizzando la piattaforma denominata Nuovo Pendolino.
I like Germany 's train system...Germany is a very densely populated area in an area the size of Montana in the states. Thus, you'll have more issues in the rail system. Switzerland has far fewer people and not as densely populated as Germany. They have an easier time having their trains punctual. All in all I think Germany does well. Oh, I forgot, great video as always Doc
Switzerland is much denser populated than Germany.
@@Kletterhaus Fair enough. But Germany has 83 million people, Switzerland 8 million
@@Kletterhaus Just saw a list of densely populated countries. Germany was 63rd, Switzerland 68th. Either way 83 million compared to 8 million, the country with 83 million will have more rail issues because its 10 times more populated. That's common sense
@@Kletterhaus the German train system is significantly more complex than that of Switzerland due to it's size, population and high-speed lines...
The swiss rail network is the most travelled on network in europe (ridership percentage and passenger/km). And it is also the densest one of all. If your asumption that size makes things more complicated was true, then how come that Japan, a country three times as populated as Germany, has such a good rail system? Honestly, Germany is simply not capable of managing their trains. They don't have the funding, they don't have the equipment and to be quite honest, they'd rather use cars instead (lobby).
Please change the text colour from white to any darker colours. Unable to read because of light background
You need a glasses
Thommen Kaiseraugst. Die können was anfangen mit dem Alteisen.
Welches Alteisen?
@@keahnig164
Dieser Schrottzug
Was den sonst
@@swisstiger7188 Ich finde den super
@@keahnig164
Ernsthaft jetzt??
What a waste of money using high speed trains on slow lines!
Yes and no. The rail lines are quite old and at the time they were build didn't have to worry that much about turn radius etc. This is a limiting factor for many swiss train lines. This is the reason why there are tilt trains operating. Now highsoeed trains have the advantage of being able to accelerate faster to higher speeds after turns. This saves some time even if they can't go at 'high speed' all the time
In fact, Switzerland is also considering building a 200 km/h high-speed line at least between St.Gallen and Winterthur.
@@domenickeller2564 do swiss tilting trains have space? The pendilinos are extremely cramped.
@@mverick5444 If I'm not wrong be have 3 types, the Bombardier FV Dosto it's a double decker and pretty spacious but I'm not sure if the tilt system is in use since they had lots of problems.
The RABDe 500 which is spacious enough to not feel cramped in any way.
Then the etr 610 which is basicly a newer pendolino. The least spacious of the 3 but I was never in an older version of the pendolino so I can't compare.
Piffle. This train set is specifically designed to provide higher speeds on *traditional track* and can of course rip on explicitly high speed infrastructure, though its tilting mechanism makes it second to exclusively high speed trains. On regular tracks this train is faster than genuinely high speed sets like ICEs.
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Please FO
1:13 This Dining Car is a Joke, a Cheek, a Contempt for the Guests and a Fist in the Face at the same Time.
The Dining Car is nothing more than a cheap Bistro. Three Tables of 4 and 3 Tables of 2.
In short, unworthy of a Dining Car Nation like Switzerland
Don't book 1st class on Swiss rail! It's a rip off. You can't pick your seats so they put me and my partner across from someone. We had no leg room and no privacy and couldn't switch seats plus the bathroom didn't work.
Just an fyi, I am unsubscribing because you always put videos up as "upcoming." No one is marking their calendars for your video releases, just release them when you want them to be viewed.
I actually like it when he does this because I get something to look forward to
@@erike7368Me too. Also, one can simply click “watch later” when it shows up in one’s feed and then, you know…watch it later. Whenever. Nobody is expecting anyone to mark their calendars.
@@educatethechildren yes of course. Another good thing about premieres is that he can watch it with the viewers and interact with them in the live chat
Oh no! 😭But honestly, are you having a bad day?
LOL!! You got a chocolate cookie working at the bar car!! hahaha , they're working him to death all by himself there.
This seems to be the approach of Amtrak also. That is a cafe car not a restaurant car in my view.