Did I just ruin my favourite novel?
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- čas přidán 28. 10. 2023
- Comparing the popular 1831 edition of Mary Shelley's Frankenstein to the original unedited 1818 text.
Sources cited:
edwardfjames.com/teaching/fra...
blog.ung.edu/press/editions-o...
www.public.asu.edu/~hiroshi/e...
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I didn’t pick up Frankenstein as a victim of fate either. I read him as someone who made horrible choices and tried to runaway from the consequences and kept making dumb selfish decisions 🤷♀️ I got it totally wrong
You didn’t get it wrong! That’s how the original text was written, and I also still read it that way in the 1831 text as well 🤷🏻♀️
I think it's ok to read (or otherwise consume) things without "understanding" them. I mean i primarily read novels to be entertained and if i enjoy the book then any extra content pointing out any subtext i missed are a huge bonus.
As someone who did their Masters thesis on Frankenstein. I appreciate every time you discuss your favorite book and see new things in the text. 🌈
I have only read the 1818 edition. Truthfully, it never even occurred to me to read the later publications. I’m not sure I want to because Frankenstein is my favorite book & I cherish my experience with that version of it. For now at least, I’ll hold off on reading any later publications.
I really envy you!
I'm very glad my high school gave us the 1818 text to read. I adore the 1818 text and find the 1831 text to be far less impactful. Even setting aside the increased emphasis on fate and destiny (which I find weakens the themes), it also downplays, or outright removes, much of the strife within the Frankenstein family. In the original text, Victor's claim to have had the perfect childhood falls apart when his accounting of events shows some clear tension within the family that neither he nor they seem willing to acknowledge. That strife and tension go a long way in explaining why Victor was so quick to abandon his family upon going to university and to fall to obsession in creating his ubermensch. Without that context, much is lost.
Just think of it as falling in love all over again. I think part of the beauty of re-reading books is discovering new things you didn’t see before. Therefore I don’t you should feel bad you didn’t see a certain theme the first or second time you read a book. May you discover something new for yourself every time you read it 😊
I really loved the way you differentiated academic VS critic. I've always been good at academics essay but I really don't enjoy it, for me it's so much more fun to find why I connected or not with the book, which part didn't sit well with me, which characters were so well written and so on.
I already have a few edition of the book as it's my favorite classic, and this 1818 edition will definitely be the next piece added! Can't wait to discover it!
Thank you for doing all that research and putting it all together for us, perfect length and content breakdown :D
Now I have a headache. I was one course short of a masters in English before I was accepted into a doctoral program in education. All of that academia just split my being into the one who knew things for herself and the one who had to consume and regurgitate what the powers that be said I should know. It's taken me years to even begin to heal that split. Be glad, Willow, that you approach books and the world from your own fresh, vibrant point of view. That's what I come here for -- to relish the difference!💜📚😰📚💜
Wholeheartedly agree. Well said!
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@@UnpottedGee, thanks! That really means a lot to me. It's nice to feel understood.💜🙏💜
I think you’re spot on with your analysis. I just finished Frankenstein a couple of days ago and thought Victor consistently made poor choices. I don’t think he was fated at all. I read the 1831 text.
I am currently taking a 3 session course with Charlotte Gordon on Frankenstein. Her providing context has been wonderful! Our first session concentrated on Mary Wollstonecraft. The second on Mary Shelley. I take the third class on Monday, where she will be discussing Frankenstein itself. She is an outstanding lecturer.
That sounds great!
Have you watched the Penny Dreadful series? It’s interesting their take on it and Dorian Gray too.
I'm excited to one day buy and read the 1818 edition. You did a nice job at explaining the differences. 💯
I didn't read Frankenstein as a victim of fate either!
Also yeah, my gold rule is: never choose your favorite book/movie/whatever as a subject of your thesis. You'll end up hating it for a little while. Choose something you like but not love. Or at least that's my experience.
First of all, thank you very much for addressing the topic in a video. When I decided to read Frankenstein a year ago (technically it was a reread, but I didn't remember much from my first reading in high school) I wasn't sure which version I should read and specifically searched for this type of comparison focusing on personal reading experience, so I am sure your video will help a lot of future Frankenstein readers! I went with the 1818 edition and absolutely loved it, it instantly became one of my favorite novels of all time. Six months later my book club picked it as their next read so I grabbed the 1831 edition to compare it to the "original". Seriously: I also don't understand how the "smart academics" come to the conclusion that in 1831 Frankenstein doesn't have any "free will" and it was his fate to do the monstrous things that he did. I also looked at some comparisons sentence by sentence and personally found the differences pretty minor. Anyways, so great seeing your passion for book criticism! And I also liked the 1818 version better!
Thank you for this video! It inspired me to read my copy of the 1818 text as soon as I finish E. M. Forster's Maurice. I also like the distinction you draw between critical and academic reading.
I did notice themes of fate in the 1831 edition of Frankenstein, but I just interpreted that as Victor Frankenstein fabricating excuses for his actions (since he's the narrator of the book and not necessarily a reliable one). Idk.
İ am reading first edition and it is wonderful . How Mary Shelley wrote all of that at the age of 20 is unbelievable
Willow, this is so fortuitous!! A couple of years ago when I first became obsessed with Mary Shelley, I also planned on doing a video reading both side by side and I've never done it (mostly because, as you said, it's too ambitious) so you don't know how glad I am that you made this video! This was fantastic and that blog post is amazing. I initially read a Kindle edition of Frankenstein and it seems like it never clearly stated which edition it was so I suppose I should read both versions just to be safe :) If you haven't read Romantic Outlaws by Charlotte Gordon, it is a masterpiece.
Love this video Willow....thanks for all the work you put into it 😊
I think i read the 1818 edition. And yep i side with you on what i got out of it, and how much i love it.
I literally finished Frankenstein for the first time yesterday. I didn’t know which version I had (an ebook with no real reference to publication date), so I read about the differences and when I saw that the 1831 version had more of an emphasis on fate, I assumed I had read the 1818 version because it didn’t seem to me that Frankenstein was “fated” to do anything, but was driven by obsession, arrogance, and privilege. However, I now realize I did read the 1831 version based on Elizabeth’s backstory. It’s also odd because on Goodreads, the 1818 text is the default, so that’s what I have listed as read.
If you didn’t see the theme of fate and neither did I, I’m starting to wonder what these academics were all on about 🙄
This was honestly fascinating to watch, because I am an academic who also adores Frankenstein and did a very similar amount of research into the differences in the text, coming from the other direction, having only read the 1818 text! I extremely enjoyed the process of that research and deepened my love for the story. It's a research topic I return to with semi-frequency for pleasure and curiosity. (I'm also a medical student and adore science history, so that adds an extra layer to it, I believe) I realized I had never read the 1831 edition (despite owning a copy) and it sounds like I should! I've almost exclusively read the novel with "student shaders", if you will and it was so enjoyable to hear you talk about my favourite book - and topic of research - from a purely reader side of things.
Sorry about your headache. I love this video. You've brought Mary's life, circumstances, and writing, back to life in an interesting relevant to now way. Very cool.
Maybe if if you can’t see it when you read it, and you’ve read it many times and have specifically spent hours and hours TRYING to see this thematic shift…. Well…. Maybe it’s not there. Maybe they’re wrong. Maybe we all still talk about those themes because they’re still there.
At the end of the day the author, in her intro to the updated edition, emphatically stated that the updates were mostly stylistic and did not seek to affect the story and themes in any meaningful way. I would lean towards believing the author.
Don’t trust people just because they call themselves academics. After all, if we’ve learned one thing from this book it’s that academics can produce monstrosities.
All wonderfully put!
I think u might be a little too hard on yourself about not being an academic. You are very insightful and a lot of fun. Keep doing what you are doing and enjoy yourself.
I really enjoyed this, thank you :-) I also love Frankenstein, but had given very little thought to the earlier edition. I will probably now read it one day. I always love to hear from people who have studied English Lit, and respect people who are trying to provide critical insights while also just...enjoying reading! I don't think I really started to enjoy reading until I was wayyy past school. Your interpretation is valuable - as is your assessment of the interpretations given in that book.
Thank you for doing the research for me. Inspires me to finally read Frankenstein. Now I know to look for the earlier version first.
I've never read Frankenstein, But now when I do buy the book I am going with the original text. Thanks so much for a very informative video.
I've read Frankestein many years ago, as a school mandatory read, and found it ok. Of course, I've read it in my native language and what I believed it was an shorter version for kids. After seeing your video, makes me want to read the 1818 edition, in English. I think it will be a great book to read as a classic in English, and see what can I pick up from the themes discussed here.
thank you for all the research and effort in this video! I could not agree more how terrible it is to do academic research in our free time, but because you did, I am more invested in the story, which I believe was the point!
I'm sorry it came at the cost of your enjoyment but thank you SO much for presenting the academic analysis on these two editions, absolutely fascinating! This is the kind of stuff I keep hoping to find in booktube. Your channel has it all. Also kudos for admitting it's hard to see this stuff without help - I'd bet my degree that most of us run into that and feel annoyingly dim from time to time.
What a coincidence, I got subscription for Nathional Theatre online, as I was annoyed that my friend always tells me about the plays they saw in cinema in Warsaw and we don't get that in Lyon. Anyway I decided to finally watch the "Frankenstein" production with Benedict Cumberbatch as the monster and Johnny Lee Miller as Frankenstein. I think I will watch the version where they switch roles to compere, Cumberbatch was amazing. You really felt the pain of his character and even when he does horrible things you can't stop feeling sorry for him. Frankenstain on the other hand, what a pompous prick with god complex.
Yessss I watched both versions during lockdown and was so impressed! I think Danny Boyle was the director? Really great production!
@@WillowTalksBooksyes it was Danny Boyle.
Dr Frankenstein may (or may not) have had a god complex, but he (via Shelley) invented the earliest known automated external defibrillator.
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@@Unpotted Well there were scientific progress made on the basis of what Unit 731 done to people, which doesn't make them any less psychopathic criminals.
I've read that really long blog post as well!
The first version of Frankenstein I skimmed was tiny paperback, an abridged "illustrated classics edition" that had great artwork every other page. So while I didn't read the whole thing through (I was nine at the time) I still gpt the gist from the artwork.
A couple weeks ago, I've developed an interest in reading Mary Shelley's actual book, and since I'm aware that it has an 1818 and 1831 edition, I downloaded both from Project Gutenberg. Then I checked out the long blog post. I've yet to read either ebook from start to finish, but from the excerpts I read from the post, 1831 Victor definitely came across as a guy who willingly made his own choices, and most of the time the choices boiled down to "do the right/rational/moral thing" and "run with your impulses". As an introvert who knows what it feels like to struggle and mostly lose (but I'm doing better now) against impulsiveness and hyperfixations, I actually found Victor pretty realatable in the (excerpts) of the early chapters. Emphasis on early chapters 😅, because I've no intention of usurping GOD's Right as Creator of Heaven and Earth. 1831 Victor feels like a depressed guy who's reevaluating his life, seeing all the moments where he could have made better choices, but knowing that he can't redo those moments, makes the easy choice of ascribing most, if not all of it to Fate. In a way though, he's still running away from his responsibilities, even as he's dying.
I'm probably gonna read the 1831 version, though. Less incest, and from the excerpts I've read, the writing is beautiful! Plus it's the version that the abridgement I'm nostalgic for is based on. And it's ultimately the version that Mary Shelley settled on, so there's that. (I've never read the original 1937 edition of The Hobbit, but Tolkien's revision which keeps getting republished is my favorite novel👍❤. So Frankestein may also just be a case where I, the reader, must trust in the choices of the dead author. 🤷♂️
Frankenstein is my favourite book, and I just checked my shelves and both my editions aren't the 1818 so I guess I'm going book shopping lol thanks for the insight Willow c:
I didn't even know there were two versions and I just discovered with your video I read the 1818 original one (it seems to be the one largely avaliable in Spain?) and I absolutelly love it, i don't know if I want to read the edited version
I love Frankenstein so much! I first read it, the 1831 edition before I knew there were multiple editions, in 2015, and I did enjoy it. Then I learned there was the 1818 edition so I had to read it, and I loved it in 2016 and it became my favorite (and learning about the differences and everything...I have no desire to reread the 1831 edition ever again tbh). I reread Frankenstein every year. I'm actually barely into it right now, finishing it late this year, my 8th read. I've read biographies and stuff on Mary Shelley as well. I love learning all about her and Frankenstein. I know i've read that particular 1818 edition you held up (I have multiple editions of Frankenstein...i'm always looking for ones with different essays and things), couldn't say what I thought about any essay in particular but I know there's some I loved, some I hated, and some I was just left confused as fuck by but i'm also not an academic. I graduated high school, that's it, and i'm almost 35. I'm just obsessed with Frankenstein lol.
I'm disabled, from birth (vacterl association) and queer (bi and trans) so same, I relate a lot to the creature. No, what he did, killing people, wasn't ok, but I could feel for him so much. If he hadn't been treated like shit just because of how he looks... speaking as someone who is disfigured as well. I don't look like the creature of course but...there's still that to.
This comment is obviously done with pausing during the video lol. Even though i'm not an academic in the literal sense I love over analyzing Frankenstein lol. It just makes me love it more. I don't want to do that with every book I read, but Frankenstein? It just ... all I can think to say is it speaks so much to me, I relate to the creature and I just, love it so much I can't help it.
Also I don't think I ever read Victor as a victim of fate. I read him as the villian frankly. Maybe not evil in the traditional sense, but to me? He makes a creature aka a child and... abandons it... because of how he looks. Disfigured here...I've gotten stares and shit. I have a large hemangioma on my leg, never stopped me from wearing shorts in the summer. I just hate Victor so much for what he did and many of the choices he made.
Like most people, I had always assumed that the 1931 version was the only version of Mary Shelly's Frankenstein.
However, apon learning about the original 1818 version and then listening to the audiobook of this first draft original story, I feel in love with this original story!
It showed that the creature was not just a mindless wonderer and mentally immature, but that this creation understood right from wrong, good vs evil, and wished to live socially as an accepted citizen.
He also believed in God and had a deep understanding about humanity.
I remember wondering what could have happened if Frankenstein was more willing to be open and get help with the situation. What if Victor Frankenstein realized that in creating a new human being, his creation, Who is also a human being, had thoughts, feelings, desires, and had the same need for belonging?
What if instead of fear, Victor realized that he could help train his "Adam" to live among society and to show his professors about the real possibilities of giving life?
Of course they could have thought that Frankenstein went insane, or wanted to subject "Adam" to experiences. Or perhaps Frankenstein would have been given demands to work with loved ones to reincarnate them, enslaving Frankenstein to a neverending task!
Or he'd become more prideful and famous with his success, perhaps going on with several successful projects, that society either becomes numb to the sacred life of those already living, or perhaps Frankenstein's "projects" suddenly stopped working, and society sues him for not "saving" every possible Family member or loved ones.
These are just a few possibilities that I've thought about after listening to the Original Version of Mary Shelly's Frankenstein!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! 😊👍
I do so appreciate all effort you put into this research video, loved it. Just read Frankenstein (1818) and cannot shake it off, stays with you. Chose 1818 version because I prefer origins without external influences. Although I do apreciate the influences due to the events and life experiences of the author.
Wonder, have you seen the Mary Shelley movie of 2017 with Elle Fanning and is it a good one?
Beautiful video!!! I might write a longer comment later, but I'm glad your channel exists, you are my very favourite book critic/influencer :D
Frankenstein is my very favourite book, moreover because of it, my life has made 180 degree turn (for the best). Mary Shelley's work is dear ro me, and I see myslef in some of her characters.
That being said, are you planning on reading other of Shelley's works? The last man, perhaps Mathilda: novella? I am interested in seeing your thoughts on these as well :)
I’m so glad to hear this! And yes, I have a copy of Mathilda and I’m going to read The Last Man soon :)
Please don't make yourself small. To be an academic is something you have to be trained for for a long time. It's absolutely normal to struggle with works of academia if you just dive into them unprepared.
You’re very good at talking about books. I enjoy hearing ur thots and breakdown of things like symbolism and what not. I’m so glad I found ur channel! 😊
I read the 1818 text first, and this resulted in me having confusing debates with people about the story's meaning. I didn't find out that the revised 1831 version had key differences until years later. Personally I like the 1818 version better
In the three Spanish translation editions I have, Elizabeth is Victor's cousin. Does that mean that in Spanish we've mostly got the 1818 edition? I'm quite bad at noticing the other changes and their importance.
I do love this book! I'm excited to read the o.g. text, it makes me feel gloomy and depressed. That is the power of the written word! Also that whole cousin marriage, I dont see the big deal, poe actually married his cousin it happened, I dont get why people were so hyper fixated enough for her to change her work
Interbreeding between cousins was thought to lead to genetic mental and physical weaknesses wasn't it? It was said to be a sin in christian sects, and against the law. The genetic vulnerabilities have been disproven but not too long ago if I remember correctly.
After watching the video my thoughts are sometimes academics use weird lenses and analytic frameworks anyways. I think it is better sometimes to understand a book and analyze it in a way that enriches your life, makes sense to you, etc. It is sort of like music. I have seen people take music theory to a great work of music that moves me, and they make some kind of sense of it, but I am not sure in the end they are exalting the piece any further in their efforts. It is meant to be a human response and so much theory feels robotic and cold
You must have read Romantic Outlaws, right? I’d love to know your thoughts on the Mary’s after that book.
Hi there from Germany. Who do you think are these "academics"? They all rely on works and results of former research done by others. What they do is to find a new (often personal) approach to the work. And in my opinion thats exactly what yo do!! You should have a better opinion on yourself!
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Yay Willow!
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I have to admit, now I'm curious what I would spot if I read these editions (or not!). Because I AM an academic...but not in the humanities! So would that transfer? I have ZERO idea.
Oh I think you underestimate your intelligence. ♥ Thanks for this fantastic video. I must read the original now.
I found a book you might like to read. It is All passion spent by Vita Sackville-West.
I've only read the 1831 text and have always viewed it as a matter of free will
One thing I think is important to remember when reading either edition is that it's never actually stated that Victor and Elisabeth fell in love. In both cases their engagement was something Victor's mother requested of them. This request was definitely made without consulting Victor and it's highly likely that Elisabeth also had no say in it. Also in both texts, Victor spends far more time describing Henry and extolling his virtues than he does Elisabeth and Henry's death seems to leave him far more distraught. Even if one doesn't accept the queer reading of these facts (that being that Victor was in love with Henry), he's still mourning his friend far more than his fiancee/wife. Doesn't exactly speak highly of his affection for her.
I read the Norton critical edition which has the 1818 text and a whole heap of essays, commentary & criticism included and to be honest a lot of the revisions didn't make any difference to my reading experience (maybe im a tad thick)
You aren't think! You just have your own filters and take in it. Cherish that!!!💜🙏💜
I tried reading The New Annotated Frankenstein, edited by Leslie S Klinger (with an afterword by Anne K Mellor!). The book is huge and heavy -- physically heavy! -- and I just could not make any headway. Like you, all of the analysis detracted from the text (for me). It was overwhelming and not enjoyable. Though maybe that's because the volume was so heavy I couldn't find any comfortable position to read it from!
BTW, I tracked down this book after learning recently -- from you, Willow! -- that there were two versions. I think I am going to see if I can find the 1818 edition, because that seems like it would be more satisfying or at least more in tune with my world view.
Wow, I put a lot of !!! in this comment. Perhaps in the next edition, I will take them out. 🙄
Hahaha your last comment really made me laugh out loud
@@WillowTalksBooks My work here is done.
I’m sure in the 1831 edition I read, Victor and Elizabeth aren’t related but they still refer to each other as “cousin”! An affectionate term I guess that remains from the original!
Maybe you can't see the shift from free will to fate because it's not really there. Just because academics insist upon this interpretation, that does not necessarily mean that they are right. Shelly changed as she grew older, as we all do, but that does not mean that her thinking took a complete 180 turn. I find it significant that the ideas are stated, but there are no specific examples used to back them up. Why aren't the arguments supported by facts?
This was very interesting! Have you read Frankisstein by Jeanette Winterson? If not, you should. I'm reading it now.
Yeah I read it a while ago. It was really fun! Loved the Welsh guy
Is this 1818 edition more difficult to read ？
Thank you 🙏🏻
Not at all. It’s a few dozen pages shorter, and so a little bit more to-the-point
@@WillowTalksBooks
Thanks again 🍎
书包？
Typical conservatives, ruining things. I'm honestly not sure which edition I've read as I don't have my copy with me and it's been well over 10 years since I read it. When I get my hands on my copy I'm going to read the other. Just maybe not go so deeply into the academic side of it