Hi Brendan. I know nothing about ketones other than what you described here. But just noting that there's been some pretty good studies recently, at least one that made some headlines, regarding the simple addition of fructose to your normal pre-hard ride/race CHO intake. The affect sounds similar. The fructose allows us to tap into/utilize more of our glycogen stores. From a personal experience as a master CX racer, I've been adding 2 to 3 tablespoons of honey (which contains the highest amount of fructose found in natural foods) to my pre-race carb meal with really good results. Almost feeling like there's an extra gear there in those late race surges and finishes. Just a thought for those of us that can't afford or simply that don't really want to spend that kind of money. Great channel!
thanks for these thoughts! these will be very different from fructose, and actually make sure you are getting 2 carb sources for your carbs so you can max out the grams that can be utilized for fuel; most likely over 90g now per hour! ketones will spare the glycogen, whereas fructose is just another carb. eat more carbs!!!
So, the research shows that you can get similar effect doing a couple of things. To get endogenous (native) ketosis you can be on a ketogenic diet or start doing intermittent fasting. To get exogenous (externally induce) ketosis you may take: Beta-Hydroxybutyrate (BHB) ketone salts, which are cheaper than ketone esters and work well too. You can take ketone esters as this video suggests. You can also take MCT oil that will be converted to ketones in the body. Though MCT oil is a less efficient out of all in inducing ketosis with high level of ketones. For example, check the study below that compared ketone salts, MCT oil and ketone esters. Cuenoud B, Hartweg M, Godin J-P, Croteau E, Maltais M, Castellano C-A, Carpentier AC and Cunnane SC (2020) Metabolism of Exogenous D-Beta-Hydroxybutyrate, an Energy Substrate Avidly Consumed by the Heart and Kidney. Front. Nutr. 7:13. doi: 10.3389/fnut.2020.00013
Hi Brendan can you make a video about HOTDOG crit. Hotdog crit but a really really tight U turn. U turning around a person. Thats how we do street crits here in the Philippines. My problem is I always blow up on the 5th to lap usually. You think I should go back riding base miles again in the weekends and maintain doing intervals on weekdays. Plus, does 1Hr or 2Hr zone2 ride can be considered as base miles? Thanks
I position my self on the front for these laps, then as the race progress I am slowly getting backwards. My latest result is I finished 2nd to the last😂. Its like a cat5 race here.
hey! so i wouldn't say it's from the hot dog per se, but maybe you are just fading? really hard to give a rec without more context. could be lack of anaerobic capacity, could be too small an FTP....email me brendan@evoq.bike and let's take a closer look (If u use power meter) 1-2h is a great ride but not as optimal for base miles as 3-4...but depends on the context of your other rides!
so we have fat, carbs, lactate and keytones. when using keytones to produce ATP, are they metabolised in the mitochondria, like fat and lactate? do they produce more ATP than fat or lactate with less waste or acidity? do keytones allow us to perform closer to Vo2 max for longer without the acidity stopping us in our tracks?
hey Ian, this response is from Delta G CSO; let me know if it helps: Yes, ketones are metabolized in the mitochondria. Ketones seem to be able to provide the heart, muscles, and brain with more efficient energy (work/energy consumed) than glucose. For production of ATP, it appears ketones are able to generate more ATP per oxygen consumed than fatty acids. As far as "waste" goes, I am unsure, but I know that ketones do not leave basically any waste, in fact, they are able to scavenger free radical waste left from using glucose as an energy source.
If you really want to know the answer first hand than this study by the scientist (Clarke Kieran) that stands behind DeltaG can shed some light on how ketones work in the body. Stubbs BJ, Cox PJ, Evans RD, Santer P, Miller JJ, Faull OK, Magor-Elliott S, Hiyama S, Stirling M, Clarke K. On the Metabolism of Exogenous Ketones in Humans. Front Physiol. 2017 Oct 30;8:848. doi: 10.3389/fphys.2017.00848. PMID: 29163194; PMCID: PMC5670148.
@@EVOQBIKE thanks for replying! I’m not a cyclist and just starting to experiment with BHB salts and learning about the differences… I guess I probably don’t need something as strong as the esters. Informative video nonetheless:)
actually the ester is great for anyone to try, not just cyclists IMO. I take small doses for cognitive benefit in the morning, just 5g. I'm not sure you can consume enough of the salts to get any effect is what I was saying though, without risking kidney issues from so much salt. good luck with the experimenting!
It's an interesting questions. If a study is funded by a company that produces Ketone Esters (KE) then they find that it works better than Ketone Salts (KS). And when it's funded by a company promoting KS then they find that they have companiable results or KS are even better.
Hi Brendan. I know nothing about ketones other than what you described here. But just noting that there's been some pretty good studies recently, at least one that made some headlines, regarding the simple addition of fructose to your normal pre-hard ride/race CHO intake. The affect sounds similar. The fructose allows us to tap into/utilize more of our glycogen stores. From a personal experience as a master CX racer, I've been adding 2 to 3 tablespoons of honey (which contains the highest amount of fructose found in natural foods) to my pre-race carb meal with really good results. Almost feeling like there's an extra gear there in those late race surges and finishes. Just a thought for those of us that can't afford or simply that don't really want to spend that kind of money. Great channel!
thanks for these thoughts! these will be very different from fructose, and actually make sure you are getting 2 carb sources for your carbs so you can max out the grams that can be utilized for fuel; most likely over 90g now per hour!
ketones will spare the glycogen, whereas fructose is just another carb.
eat more carbs!!!
So, the research shows that you can get similar effect doing a couple of things.
To get endogenous (native) ketosis you can be on a ketogenic diet or start doing intermittent fasting. To get exogenous (externally induce) ketosis you may take: Beta-Hydroxybutyrate (BHB) ketone salts, which are cheaper than ketone esters and work well too. You can take ketone esters as this video suggests. You can also take MCT oil that will be converted to ketones in the body. Though MCT oil is a less efficient out of all in inducing ketosis with high level of ketones.
For example, check the study below that compared ketone salts, MCT oil and ketone esters.
Cuenoud B, Hartweg M, Godin J-P, Croteau E, Maltais M, Castellano C-A, Carpentier AC and Cunnane SC (2020) Metabolism of Exogenous D-Beta-Hydroxybutyrate, an Energy Substrate Avidly Consumed by the Heart and Kidney. Front. Nutr. 7:13. doi: 10.3389/fnut.2020.00013
Hi Brendan can you make a video about HOTDOG crit. Hotdog crit but a really really tight U turn. U turning around a person. Thats how we do street crits here in the Philippines.
My problem is I always blow up on the 5th to lap usually. You think I should go back riding base miles again in the weekends and maintain doing intervals on weekdays. Plus, does 1Hr or 2Hr zone2 ride can be considered as base miles? Thanks
I position my self on the front for these laps, then as the race progress I am slowly getting backwards. My latest result is I finished 2nd to the last😂. Its like a cat5 race here.
hey! so i wouldn't say it's from the hot dog per se, but maybe you are just fading? really hard to give a rec without more context. could be lack of anaerobic capacity, could be too small an FTP....email me brendan@evoq.bike and let's take a closer look (If u use power meter)
1-2h is a great ride but not as optimal for base miles as 3-4...but depends on the context of your other rides!
so we have fat, carbs, lactate and keytones. when using keytones to produce ATP, are they metabolised in the mitochondria, like fat and lactate? do they produce more ATP than fat or lactate with less waste or acidity? do keytones allow us to perform closer to Vo2 max for longer without the acidity stopping us in our tracks?
hey Ian, this response is from Delta G CSO; let me know if it helps:
Yes, ketones are metabolized in the mitochondria. Ketones seem to be able to provide the heart, muscles, and brain with more efficient energy (work/energy consumed) than glucose. For production of ATP, it appears ketones are able to generate more ATP per oxygen consumed than fatty acids. As far as "waste" goes, I am unsure, but I know that ketones do not leave basically any waste, in fact, they are able to scavenger free radical waste left from using glucose as an energy source.
If you really want to know the answer first hand than this study by the scientist (Clarke Kieran) that stands behind DeltaG can shed some light on how ketones work in the body.
Stubbs BJ, Cox PJ, Evans RD, Santer P, Miller JJ, Faull OK, Magor-Elliott S, Hiyama S, Stirling M, Clarke K. On the Metabolism of Exogenous Ketones in Humans. Front Physiol. 2017 Oct 30;8:848. doi: 10.3389/fphys.2017.00848. PMID: 29163194; PMCID: PMC5670148.
I’m wondering have you tried any of the ketone salts (as opposed to esters)?
hey smooth, I have not, as we'd have to consume a massive load of salt to receive any benefit from the ketones in them
@@EVOQBIKE thanks for replying!
I’m not a cyclist and just starting to experiment with BHB salts and learning about the differences… I guess I probably don’t need something as strong as the esters. Informative video nonetheless:)
actually the ester is great for anyone to try, not just cyclists IMO. I take small doses for cognitive benefit in the morning, just 5g. I'm not sure you can consume enough of the salts to get any effect is what I was saying though, without risking kidney issues from so much salt. good luck with the experimenting!
It's an interesting questions. If a study is funded by a company that produces Ketone Esters (KE) then they find that it works better than Ketone Salts (KS). And when it's funded by a company promoting KS then they find that they have companiable results or KS are even better.
I just spent $120 on Keto IQ...👀 smh...
Now let me check out this video
I made the same mistake. It's okay. When u order Delta G next, make sure you use the code so you get the 15% off!
fast,,,,,to rise keto
Code does not work.... i tried " CODE BRENDAN" and BRENDAN, nothing.
I just did Brendan and it worked. email me if you have another issue with it. Brendan@EVOQ.BIKE