UNDERSTANDING FIRESCALE
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- čas přidán 2. 07. 2024
- Understanding FIRESCALE can be a mystery. Designer Craftsman Jeweler Greg Greenwood, explains what Firescale on Sterling Silver is. How you get it. Once you've got it - what to do about it. And how to prevent it. Firescale can be confusing and frustrating. Greg takes you through all the questions about Firescale and makes it understandable. FINALLY, you will know what causes Firescale and how to prevent it on your Sterling silver jewelry projects.
I haven't found one person that explained this process like you did. I am SO appreciative!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks Greg Greenwood
This comment is for beginners. When you first start making stuff you will hear a lot of panic about firescale. You will get it. It's part of the learning process so don't worry it. This video is really good at describing it and it's causes.
Two things I learned was you need to learn the difference between regular muck and firescale before you scrap a decent piece.
This tip might help you. Get very fine steel wool. The type used for car paint preparation. After pickling, and tumbling your work, give your piece a really good rub over with the steel wool.
If you have got firescale as this video says it will show up and you can move on to the cleaning phase described here. Otherwise you wil have just taken off regular muck.
Rubbing over with steel wool saves a lot of regular polishing.
BUT
Keep your steel wool far away from your pickle. It will contaminate your pickle and irreparabley damage any work you put in to it. Steel in your pickle turns your silver pink and it ca.n not be undone.
The second thing mentioned in this video is never be afraid to take an engraver to the piece you just think you ruined. Patterns can cover a multitude of sins. The important thing is if the work looks ok, it's better than wasting your silver. Never tell anyone. Likely only other jewellers will spot it and they have suns of their own covered up.
Last but not least enjoy learning and enjoy your work. Perfection is not always possible, just don't worry about it.
Hello To forget, Thank you for your great comments. I really appreciate your support of my video, your take on the subject, and the words of advice for beginning students. It is great to work together for the education of all. Keep watching and I will always invite your comments and advice. Thanks again. Greg Greenwood
@@greggreenwood4628 Thank you for those words. I learned about solder from you. So I thought it only fair to share my experiences with others.
Hello To forget, Awesome, I'm glad I helped you. Take care. Greg Greenwood
@@greggreenwood4628 👍😁
It seems like you just gave one of the best pro tips ever and I don't even know it because I'm just starting... I'm going to thank you anyway. This community seems to be very knowledgeable and kind. I'm really glad I found everyone here! 👊😎
Thank you for not having ads. Great video as well.
Hello Ken, You are more than welcome. I hate ads in the middle of a video. I will not monetize. Thanks again. Keep watching. Greg Greenwood
What can I say, this is the first time in 5 years of working with silver that I have heard this explained. Over the years not one of my tutors mentioned this way of preventing fire stain! I was taught that I could coat my work in borax, and I do this, but not this wonderful dipping and drying method with the denatured alcohol, wow, I can't wait to try this out, especially on my larger pieces. Ordering my supplies right away. Much appreciate you sharing all your skills knowledge.
😃😃👍👍
Hello Ellisiem, Thank you for your comments. I appreciate it. Glad to be helpful. Let me know how it goes. The best to you. Greg Greenwood
Thank you! Really demystified that bugger firescale!
Hello Carolyn, You are very welcome. Thank you for watching. Greg Greenwood
Great teacher❤you explained step by step so clearly and easy to understand.
Hello Elisa, Glad you think so! Greg Greenwood
your videos are very interesting and informative, your spirit is amazing, thank u for the great content, Nora from Egypt
Hello Nora, You are more than welcome. I appreciate your kind and thoughtful comments. Thanks for letting me know where you are. It is great. The best to you. Greg Greenwood
Thank you for explaining the science, I'm hooked!
Hello Tamara, Absolutely my pleasure. I am glad you are enjoying and learning from my videos. Thank you. Greg Greenwood
Very well explained, and wow what a kindness !
Hello CliClasp, Thank you very much. I am happy to explain!! Greg Greenwood
Thank you Greg for a great video! Very well explained about Firescale!
Hi Doris, Glad you enjoyed the video. I hope this helped you. Thanks Greg Greenwood
Thanks Greg for ALL your video's. You are as good or even better than my teachers at the jewlery school. Most video's just show the project, but do not include the secrets of the trade. You share them with all of us and that is a big thing to do. Thanks again.
Hello jo Ti, Wow, thank you! I appreciate your kind comments. If you have any questions in the future, please feel free to let me know. I am here to help. Keep watching. Greg Greenwood
Really enjoyed this vid. Very useful and informative. I had no idea firescale existed, or it could largely be prevented.
Hello T.C. Glad you enjoyed my video. Thank you for watching. Greg Greenwood
Greg really knows what he is talking about. Thank you! Learned so much from your videos.
Hello Claire, Thank you for your kind comments. I'm glad you are learning. Greg Greenwood
This is a new hobby for me so I've been watching a lot of videos and I have to say yours are among the best
Hello Rob, Thank you for your kind comment. If you have any questions, let me know. Good Luck. Greg Greenwood
Thanks for replying, Greg. Much appreciated. My apologies for not being more specific. My problem is primarily with sterling silver sheet, as in the backing for a bezel-set stone in a pendant, for example.
Phil.
Hello Phil, I think the problem that you are having is that you are trying to polish the sheet before it is prepared properly. When you emery the metal smooth make sure that you emery to a very fine grit. 400 grit at least. If you try to polish too soon, the surface will become uneven and give you a rough (possibly orange peel look). Also, when you polish, make sure you polish in ALL different directions. If you only polish in one or two directions, it will lead to valleys in the surface. Giving you the uneven appearance. One last thing, try not to over heat the sheet metal when you are soldering on the bezel. You could be slightly melting the surface giving you the orange peel look.
I hope this is helping you. It is hard to diagnose without seeing in person. Let me know how it goes. Thanks for your question. Keep watching. Greg Greenwood
@@greggreenwood4628
Thanks Greg. Heating is not a factor as when I try to improve my technique I use a fresh piece of silver sheet.
Your suggestion to emery to 400 is puzzling to me as I would have a lot of trouble removing scratches caused by that grit with tripoli - I think it would take me forever. In order to try and get a good polish I tend to emery to at least 1200, and often to 3000 or even finer. So if it is possible to remove 400 grit scratches I must not be applying enough compound or enough pressure. Can you give me some guidelines for that, please? And also speed.
I did experiment with more compound on the buff and more pressure on a piece of silver finely emeried, and still problems. I got a good polish but there were fine snake-like ripples in the surface. I have photographs.
Thanks your help.
Phil
Hello Phil, I just sent you an email. Oh by the way, I meant 4000 not 400. Talk to you soon. Greg Greenwood
Thanks for sharing! Great video!
Hello Johannes, You are more than welcome. Glad to help! Keep watching. Greg Greenwood
Life is good now. Now I understand. Thank you very much.
Hello Steven, You are so welcome! This is why I am doing these videos. My teaching philosophy is: "Tell me, I forget. Show me, I remember. Involve me, I understand!" Thank you for be involved! Greg Greenwood
Thanks Greg. I understand things about fire scale that I didn't before.
Hi Allan, Fire scale can be a real fooler! Glad you are learning! Greg Greenwood
Nice one... I've heard a lot about firescale but I nobody had explained it like you just did. 👏
Hello JuegoArt, I am glad I could help you understand. Thanks for your kind comments. Greg Greenwood
Thank you for the info.
Finished a ring today firescale showed up.
Well know i know more because of this video.
Thank you for what you do...
Hello rebelone mark gold, Sorry firescale showed up! Hopefully you will be able to polish it off. Thank you for your comments. I appreciate it. Greg Greenwood
Thank you! You are awesome 😊
Hello Martha, You are so welcome! Greg Greenwood
Sir you have answered so many questions i have been wondering about. Thank you!!! 🙂 great video!❤
Hello Jennifer, My pleasure 😊 Glad I can help you. Keep watching. Greg Greenwood
You're a treasure. So knowledgeable and such a good teacher, I wish i could study under you in person. thankful for these youtube videos!
Hello Katherine, Thank you very much for your kind comments. I appreciate it. I am very happy to help. If you have any questions in the future, please feel free to let me know. Thanks again. Greg Greenwood
Great video!
Thank you Crimson Fang, I always appreciate your comments. Greg Greenwood
Ten seconds in and I feel like...
Dragons are going to be involved 🔥
LOL Greg Greenwood
Hey Greg. I just went down and read some other post and you answered my question in someone else's post. I am anxious to try this. Somebody did tell me about the boric acid and denatured alcohol but their ratios are different and it was very thick almost a paste so now that I know what you have said about looking for a clear solution I'm hoping to have a better result.
Hello Dawn, The ratios for boric acid to alcohol can vary. It all depends on the user. Some jewelers like to very thin coating {thus clearer) and others prefer a thicker coating. The minimum should be the "clear" amount. I do add more boric acid in many cases. Experiment to see what works best for you and your style of projects. Great question. Greg Greenwood
nice video,thanks
Thank you rommel, Very glad you like my videos. Greg Greenwood
I now know what firescale is. thank you.
You are more than welcome! Greg Greenwood
Another tip, dont have a hissy flame, in other words a hissy flame when soldering means the oxygen is not being burnt off, or your mix is wroung, and will add to FS problems enjoying your video's, esp the one where you used old burnishers,
Hello Kyoto, You are 100% correct. Too much oxygen will make more FS. I am glad you are enjoying my videos. I appreciate you watching. Greg Greenwood
We braze our copper pipes and fittings together when doing medgas piping. This is the piping that delivers nitrogen, nitrous oxide, air, oxygen, evac and vacuum to operating rooms and patient rooms etc in hospitals. It's all for human consumption therefore we can't have any firescale inside the pipe. Nor can we have any flux or anything like that. So what we do is we purge it with nitrogen before and while we braze it. When we're done, the outside looks crispy and burnt while the inside stays shiny and clean and new looking.
Hello j dog, Thank you very much for sharing your brazing techniques with me. VERY INTERESTING. It is always great to learn about new techniques. Never stop learning!!!! thanks again. Greg Greenwood
Great videos. Hope you keep them coming. Working on getting into silversmithing myself. Figured to get the education part in before buying anything. Still needing to learn about solder a bit, as far as using hard vs easy Flux, etc, and the silver itself. Like what dead soft is... already annealed? Just soft? Etc... as well as how to harden it and such. Lot to learn.
Hello Jento, Thank you for your compliment. Glad you are starting to get into silversmithing. It is a fascinating art field with many different variations in techniques and materials. Check out my video playlist on soldering. It is geared toward students just starting jewelry and metalsmithing. Enjoy and have fun. Greg Greenwood
@@greggreenwood4628 That's how I found your videos, actually... Looking into the soldering portion of it. Very useful information.
I'm a little torn on how to do soldering though, when I watch the Native Americans doing it. Seems that white people prefer putting chunks of solder on the pieces and slowly working them into melting, whereas Native Americans prefer to heat the piece and just touch solder wire to the places they want to solder.
Any thoughts on this?
Curious because their way seems a bit superior, at least as far as timing goes. They seem to take about a minute, whereas non-natives take 5 minutes. Lol.
Hello Jento, There are several ways to introduce solder to the pieces being soldered together. Cutting pailions or small pieces of solder is a method to control the exact amount of solder used on the solder joint. It is also a "cleaner" method with little to no extra solder 'spillage" to scrape, file or polish off. Stick feeding solder from a wire or thin cut sheet is a method to use a lot of solder in a solder joint. It takes a lot of practice to not use too much and have to clean off the extra solder used. As for the timing, Both methods are fast. It all depends on the thickness and size of the metal being soldered. On average, when I use pailions to solder, I take about 30 seconds. Any longer, and I am doing something wrong. (Too little heat for example). I bet you cannot wait to get your equipment and start learning to solder!! Have Fun. Thanks for your observations and comments. Greg Greenwood
@@greggreenwood4628 You are right... I'm very much looking forward to it. I'm going to get lapidary stuff as well so that I can form my own stones. Another thing to get into. Ha.
I appreciate you taking the time to respond as well.
Your videos are pretty good... far more educational than most I've come across, as they often don't bother explaining WHY or HOW, etc. Not truly "beginner level", though they say beginner... Lol.
Your videos answer many of my questions, even questions I didn't think to think of, though they often leave me with more questions too. Lol.
For example... how long in the pickle pot? Though you might have answered that for me recently if it was something like 2-3 minutes.
Or when to use the different solders. Easy vs medium, etc. Or do solders work on a sort of tier system? Like... Using hard solder with the higher melting temperature for the"base" of your project so that you can use medium on the additions without re- melting the soldering you already did, and easy solder on further additions, etc?
Or is hard solder just stronger? Or both?
Sorry for asking for more of your time. I just turn into a thousand questions when I'm learning something.
I'm not very good at learning from reading, but I'm a sponge if it's hands on learning, and watching videos is pretty much just as good as hands on.
Also... what about stones? Is it NEVER a good idea to solder with stones in because of overheating and cracking? Or is there a way to cheat somehow by dripping solder onto what you want soldered with a stone in it? I've gathered that solder follows the heat, so I imagine it'd be messy, but is it somehow possible in the event that an uncommon need arises? Or will it simply not adhere at all?
And finally for now... Ha... If you don't have the time to answer, that's understandable.
Additionally, if you don't do live streams, perhaps it's something to consider? Chuck Dorsett from Weaver Leathercraft is how I learned leatherworking. He does live streams like once a week to try answering questions people have that might not have been addressed in videos, etc. Nifty way to increase your following and pick up some "tips" along the way from subscribers/donations.
Or perhaps auxiliary videos comprised of answers to questions you get in the comments.
I'm not sure what you're trying to do or have time for, but I'd certainly watch them. I'll take all the knowledge I can from someone that clearly knows their business. Haha
Hello Jento, Thank you for your compliments, I appreciate it. 1.Pickle pot time: The shorter time the better. Usually 1 to 3 minutes when the pickle is warm. 2. You are correct about the hard, med, easy solders. They melt at different temps so you can solder different pieces together without melting the previous solder joint. The solders are equally strong. 3. Never solder with a stone in the piece. Remove stone and then solder. 4. Thanks for the suggestion about live streaming. At this time, I don't have the extra time to do them. But maybe in the future. Thank you for watching, I really appreciate it. Greg Greenwood
I have used a similar method for over 50 years. A friend, whose father was a jeweler told me about it. However I use borax instead of boric acid and I dump an excess of borax in the alcohol. When I dip the sterling item into the jar, I swirl it around so it picks up a lot of the suspended borax. Then I put it on a warm fire brick to dry. After the alcohol has evaporated, I heat it with the torch until the borax has fused to the Silver. I re-coat it 2-3 times more before soldering. I do this before each soldering operation, and pickle it in dilute Sulphuric acid after. The Silver comes out white. Soldering is very easy with this method. No additional flux is needed. There is no fire scale anywhere, so minimal polishing is required I have never tried using boric acid instead of borax. Pure borax ( not the laundry detergent ) is usually sold by the pound, whereas I have only found boric acid in small bottles.
Hello William, Thank you for telling me your technique. Yes, they are similar. I like hearing different takes on the techniques. It gives us an opportunity to refine and sharpen our own skills. Basically borax and boric acid are the same. Boric acid is just a little more refined. Six of one and a half dozen of another! Boric acid can be purchased at some garden centers for bug control. Very nice hearing from you today. Take care and we'll talk soon I'm sure. Thanks again for sharing. Greg Greenwood
Thanks for this video Greg! I have a mirror finish flat casting that is just filled with fire scale today!!! I will try to heat it and pickle it about 5 times, then emery and polish it to see if I have any luck! Thanks again!
Hello polytwobeers, Thank you for the comment. Before you heat your casting, make sure you have the mirror finish done. Then heat and pickle but do not emery your casting after you have heated and pickled. If you do, you will expose the fire scale again and you will have to redo. Only polish lightly after the heating and pickling. Good Luck. Greg Greenwood
@@greggreenwood4628 Hi Greg, So I'm working on a small silver box that was 3d printed then cast. I did the heating and polishing, but unfortunately my casting has tons of what seems like spray porosity! I'm thinking of just adding a thin fresh silver plate to the top of this silver box casting. Hopefully it would look much nicer! I'll see what the bosses have to say when they see it tomorrow. Thank you!
Hello polytwobeers, Interesting. The silver plate will not fill in any porosity. But, wait and see if it looks better after the plating. Good Luck. Greg Greenwood
@@greggreenwood4628 Thanks Greg! The silver plate I added was like a veneer to the top of the box so it turned out great! Thank you!
Hello polytwobeers, Awesome, way to go!!! Greg Greenwood
I didn't realize that burning off the denatured alcohol would affect the boric acid, but it makes sense. I'll have to try being patient and letting it air dry next time to see if I like the results better!
Hello jpd, Thanks for your comment. You can speed up the drying time by warming your piece with a heat gun or hair dryer. Let me know how your results turn out. Have Fun. Greg Greenwood
Thank you Greg for telling me about your video on fire scale 😖. I do have a couple of questions. At this point we would just coat our piece with Flux?
And do we use the boric acid solution each time we need to solder an additional piece onto our project. Example if I was too solder on silver balls or a silver feather.
Thanks I have some more of your videos lined up to watch.
Hello Dawn, It is best to cover the entire piece with either boric acid or flux. Caution: If you put flux on the prior solder joint, it could potentially melt the solder and come undone. If you have many solder joints, you can use yellow ochre to prevent the prior joint from unsoldering. Use yellow ochre powder and make a "paint" with water and paint on the joint. Of course, all projects are different and so you need to use "common sense" when soldering. Thanks for your question. I hope this helps you. Greg Greenwood
Dumb question ….after the boric acid dip do you need flux when soldering ?
Hello Mx3, Not a dumb question! Yes, you do need to use extra flux on the solder joint. Good question. Good luck and enjoy soldering. Greg Greenwood
What is the best GA copper to use for fold forming? Thank you for all the information in your videos you have very pleasant teaching style.
Hello Maria, I use 24 gauge or .40 mm. Thank you for your kind comments. Greg Greenwood
Thanks for the informative video. I’m so glad I found your channel. I have a couple questions about the boric acid solution- how long does it take to dry? Does is break down when your heat up your piece like flux? If so, at what point? I assume that you need to coat your piece after each pickle cleaning. If I am soldering, then would I need to only flux the solder joints, or would it be advantageous to also flux the whole thing on top of the boric acid coat?
Hello Marcy, Thank you for your great questions. The boric acid solution will dry right away after you light it with your torch. If you see that it does not seem to have enough borax on the piece, add more borax to your solution. Don't be afraid of making your solution too "heavy" on borax. Yes, it will start breaking down after you start heating it. It will act about the same as your flux. Yes, as soon as you pickle the borax is gone. So re-coat. When you are soldering silver, you will be making firescale, so if you can prevent it, it is best to do so. Sometimes I have only fluxed the solder joint. It depends on the piece, if the majority of the piece will not be heated. It can be advantageous to flux the whole piece if your solution doesn't seem to cover very well. Remember, if you want to avoid firescale, then protect the metal from oxidation. Borax and flux are your best bets. I hope this has helped you. Good Luck and "keep soldering"!! Greg Greenwood
Hi Marcy, butting in with info on a flux product I learned about from Joanna Golberg, who does lots of multiple join work. She uses a flux called Stay- Silv. She says it holds up to heating longer than more common fluxes. It is a black paste flux, it turns a golden clear when it reaches temp to protect your metal and let solder flow. She also doesn't pickle between solder joins unless she needs to really see a spot clearly. She just keeps on adding flux and finishes her piece. Hopefully, this is helpful. I use Stay-Silv myself for some longer and larger projects - like a big cuff - because I often use two torches simultaneously to reach temperature on that much metal, it can take longer. The flux seems to not burn off/deplete as fast. Pls. Be cautious as usual, Stay-Silv IS a fluoride bearing flux (like many fluxes), and good ventilation is a must.
Whoa, WHOA! WHOA!! Greg, aren't you actually describing coating the piece (heat, pickle, repeat several times, also known as depletion silvering) with fine silver, not coating with oxides? I have NEVER heard of coating a piece all over with graying oxides as a solution to firestain. In fact, I believe the only way to do that is to severely overheat the entire piece - not advised. Depletion silvering (what you described) is a technique to bring up the fine silver to a comprehensive and substantial layer that coats the entire piece. The reason to not polish too aggressively after doing this procedure is because fine silver (being all that's left after multiple heatings and picklings) is much softer than sterling. Depletion silvering will cover up firestain. Pickle will remove firescale (two different animals). Did you mention that firestain comes from prolonged over heating? Pls. consider my comment, I'd love to hear what you think on this (if you will). Am I incorrectly instructing my students about the physics in this situation? Thanks for your input and wisdom. 🌺 I use the firecoat, and it works well. Tip: Cheap boric acid in the form of "Roach killer" on Amazon is MUCH cheaper than Rio. It's the identical product without the famous Rio Grande gouge! Also, I believe there is an excellent article by Lexi Erickson on the difference between firescale and firestain, the latter being the more tenacious, in Lapidary Journal Jewelry Artist magazine. Possibly searchable.
Also, from Rio website: "Firescale is a topical discoloration of black scale on the surface of silver. It is easily cleaned up with pickle, which dissolves it. Firestain, on the other hand, is revealed during the polishing process. Pickling will not remove this because it occurs below the surface of the silver."
Hello Flying Chef, Thanks again for your questions, which help me make better and more understandable video lessons in the future.
First: Definitions: I use the words firescale and firestain interchangeably. Using firescale most often. (Old School: Oppi Untracht).
Firescale (Cuprous Oxide) is produced by oxygen combing with copper in sterling when sterling is heated ABOVE 1000 F. or annealing and soldering temps. Does not have to be from prolonged heating. This starts at the surface and is drawn down into the silver surface. The outer layers of cuprous oxide change to Cupric Oxide (black/gray surface). This is what we see on silver surface. When we pickle the silver, the acid attacks the cupric oxide leaving the fine silver atoms behind. This is the 'white' surface that we see after pickling. Unfortunately, pickling will only fix the outer layer. The cuprous oxide (firescale) is still under the surface.
Yes, you are correct about depletion silvering procedure. The heating process in depletion silvering should on be done until the surface discolors (800 F) then pickled. This process will cover up firescale. In my video, I should have included this method. Unfortunately I did not. (Senior moment?) Maybe in another video.
The process that I was describing is a Scandinavian technique. Heating the piece ABOVE 1000F. produces more cuprous oxide (firescale) in the deeper surfaces of the metal to produce an even coat of firescale. Then polishing or brushing lightly to remove the 'fine silver'. This finish is darker and more gray than 'clean silver'.
These 2 processes are similar, so I can see where you may have interpreted it as depletion silvering. (My fault!). I like depletion silvering and I use it regularly. Firecoating is great. Boric acid can be bought at garden centers also. Nice and cheap.
It is always interesting to hear different meanings and processes for the same techniques and words. Thanks for sharing your ideas and thoughts. I hope this LONG explanation clarifies most questions. Keep in touch!! Greg Greenwood
@Greg Greenwood Greg, your long answer is super helpful. I will use it to expound on the subject when explaining. Thank you so much. I share your videos with my students, and we have exclaimed to each other: "Who's THAT happy?" Hahahah! Your channel is excellent, and I especially love the many examples of soldering set-ups. It's really creative thinking for solutions! I saved it in my favorites.
@Greg Greenwood Oh dear, you've got me thinking again...another question came up...(and I do have Oppi Untrechts book, I'm going in to look deeper...😅). Am I correct in understanding that firestain (the deeper oxides) always happens after 1000°? Soldering silver at 1450° (hard solder) definitely reaches and exceeds that temperature, so why do we not always have firestain? And why is it patchy when it is present? It seems from your description that unless one eliminates exposure to oxygen (with fire coat/flux), firestain is inevitable. I only occasionally have it visibly present, and I do a lot of multiple soldering join pieces. I sand and polish it out when I see it, and I look for it, I do not cover it up. Thank you again for letting me pick your wise brain on this subject. 🌺
Hello Flying Chef, I am very glad that you found my explanation helpful. Thank you. As for happyness!!! I am so lucky to be doing what I am passionate about. Education and passing on age old metalsmithing techniques to any up and coming jeweler and artist that will listen. CZcams has given me the means to reach a broad range of people. It is very satisfying!
Do you teach privately or in a school? What age are your students? Take care and talk to you soon. Greg Greenwood
Hello Flying Chef, Whenever you heat sterling silver above 1000 or at annealing and soldering temps. you are producing cuprous oxide. Now, why don't you always have firescale on your piece? Chances are that you really do have it. Reducing the chances of producing it like, having a reduction flame (more gas than air), will help reduce the amount of oxygen around the soldered area thus reducing the chance of firescale. Soldering on a charcoal block reduces the amount of oxygen around the soldering area, and using boric acid as a firecoat also helps reduce firescale. All of these methods have variants. They are not 100% effective. Firescale can be 'blotchy' and forms irregularly. Unless one solders in a vaccum, there will always be oxygen around the solder joint. But of course, no flame!!
You say that you only occasionally have it visibly present. ( I am only speculating here) You do have it but you have not polished through it's layer to the sterling silver below. So you don't notice it. Firescale has always been a problem for silversmiths. We just have to work and do our best to keep it at bay! Thanks for your questions. I appreciate them. Greg Greenwood
Hi Greg if borax and boracic acid are not the same thing, does the boracic coating inhibit the soldering process in any way? Can I simply treat the soldering process as normal without locally removing the glossy coating?
(by the way, for anybody in the UK watching, 'Denatured Alcohol' is what we call 'methylated spirit' and is often faintly coloured purple to try and stop people drinking it, don't know if the colouring would get in the way)
Looking at the size of the box of acid I guess that you use it all of the time.
Thanks' again Greg.
Regards . . . Andy
Hello Andy, No, it does not inhibit the soldering process. You do not need to remove the glossy coating. This is what will help prevent fire scale. Thanks for the tip on the methylated spirit. The purple should not be a problem. I think I should consult with you when I do a video with ingredients that might have different names in the UK. I like to be accurate for all. Thanks Andy, talk to you soon. Greg Greenwood
Thank you very much! So would this method work on larger pieces as well? I just heard never to use it on larger pieces and burn it off but air dried should work?
Hello Jana, You are welcome. I have used it on large pieces and air dried them. Not sure why it cannot be used on larger pieces. Thanks for asking. Greg Greenwood
I’m not sure I understand. it isn’t heating and pickling over and over the same thing as depletion gilding? Which is bringing the fine silver to the surface. how does the oxide come to the surface, If depletion guilding ( which is same technique) brings fine silver to the surface?
Hello johnmimist, The oxide (fire scale) is below the fine silver. It shows up when the metal is polished and the fine silver surface is polished through. Then, the fire scale shows itself. This is why we don't usually see it until we start to polish the metal. I hope this answered your question. Excellent question! Thanks Greg Greenwood
Hi Geg, I wish I had seen this video a long time ago.
Can you help me with another major problem in polishing? Time and time again I get what I call an orange-peel effect - and fine pitting. What causes that? I have to abrade that away and start pre-polishing and colouring again. And then again, until I somehow fluke getting a flat polished surface. I use a rotary hand tool. I use tripoli or an alternative with a calico mop and red rouge with a wool mop. Any suggestions would be very very much appreciated.
Hello user, I have a question. Is this a casting, sheet metal, or wire that you are having problems with? Please let me know and then I can answer you. Thanks Greg Greenwood
Hi Greg, can you reuse the extra boric acid that is left over? And make up another jar? Or have we changed the chemical balance too much?
Hello Dawn, if you are referring to the boric acid that is in the solution, Yes, you can keep on using and can even add more boric acid. Thanks for the question. Greg Greenwood
Thanks Greg I'm just starting to learn about silversmithing.
Does it mean after coating the sterling silver with the boric acid/ alcohol mixture if I then solder the material will it still be necessary to pickle after the soldering?
Hello John, Yes, you still have to pickle the piece after you solder. This will clean off the oxides from when you solder. Check out my Soldering Playlist. Watch all of the videos. These will answer many questions and give you good tips. Good Luck and if you have any questions, let me know. Greg Greenwood
Do you need to do anything special using boric acid when you go to solder the piece? Do you have to clean it off just where the solder goes ?
Hello Robert, Thank you for your question. You do not need to do anything special. Coat the piece with boric acid and then flux where you are going to solder and solder. The boric acid areas help to protect from oxidation. Good Luck, Thanks again. Greg Greenwood
Hi Greg, thank you for your informative video. Once I have covered the metal in the solution, do I need to redip it again after heating or pickling and how long will the solution stay on for? Thanks.
Hello Rachel, You are more than welcome. Yes, you need to redip after heating and pickling. The pickling process will clean off the oxides and any fluxes including your boric acid and denatured alcohol mixture. Dip before each soldering job. The alcohol will evaporate but the boric acid will remain on your piece until you heat and pickle. Hope this answers your question. Keep watching. If you have any questions in the future, please feel free to let me know. Greg Greenwood
@@greggreenwood4628 thank you so much 😊
Hello Rachel, My pleasure! Enjoy. Greg Greenwood
With engraving work on a sterling pendant, I will have already blackened the engraving with Liver of Sulfur and completed the final polishing. (Think of a sheet made cross with a single hole drilled at the top) Now it's time to solder a jump ring, followed by tedious cleanup near the attachment point. Will the boric acid protect without removing the blackening that I want to leave? If not, I will probably have to stick with the borax flux protection.
Hello Raven, Question: 1.) Are you soldering the jump ring onto the cross? 2.) Or are you putting the jump ring through the hole at the top and then soldering the jump ring closed? If #1 then you should have soldered the jump ring on before you liver of sulfured and final polishing. If #2 then you can simply hold the jump ring with cross lock tweezers, use borax flux on the ring and solder, easy or extra easy solder. Not heating the cross. I hope I am interpreting your question correctly. Let me know how it goes. If you wish, you can send photos to my email. greggreenwoodjewelry@gmail.com
Thanks for asking your questions. I am here to help. Greg Greenwood
A bit of both. #2 should work itself out with a better torch - one with a smaller/finer flame. The little butane ones are nice, but don't seem to be hot enough for many operations. For #1 I'll just have to switch my order of operations. It's just so much easier to remove the excess blackening while the piece is still perfectly flat. 😥
Hello Raven, I understand what you are saying. The smaller torches sometimes are not enough. You are correct about removing the excess while it is still flat is easier. Let me know if I can help in any way. Greg Greenwood
I have a question about dipping the silver sheet into the flux. When I have a small piece of sheet I want to protect, it seems that the flux just balls up and won’t spread evenly. Even after washing with Dawn and water. So I have started hearing the silver just a little and that seems to work. But you didn’t have to do that. So what am I doing wrong? Thank you.
Hello Ronda, If the flux balls up that means there is some form of grease or oil on the surface. It could be from fingers, or even you washing the sheet. A little residue is left on the surface. Heating the sheet will burn off the residue. You can rinse the sheet with alcohol. This will help. The secret is clean, clean, clean. Don't worry. It will become easier. Good luck. Greg Greenwood
@@greggreenwood4628 Thank you so much, Greg. I'll use alcohol. That was a quick response. I appreciate it. Love your videos.
Hello Ronda, You are very welcome. Thanks again. Greg Greenwood
Can you use isopropyl alcohol for the anti fire scale solution?
In the U.K. we call denatured alcohol methylated spirits and I can’t stand the smell of it.
Hello JustME, I understand your problem! I have always used denatured alcohol but I have tried isopropyl and it seems to work ok. The idea is to get the boric acid onto the silver piece. So use any means to cover the piece with the boric acid. Please let me know how it is working for you. Thanks Greg Greenwood
@@greggreenwood4628 Thank you! Tried it today. Seems fine.
Hello JustME, Great, glad to hear it. Thanks Greg Greenwood
If it’s a little patchy when dry, can it be dipped again or would this remove the coating already deposited?
Hello Mayfield, If you re-dip the piece, it will remove the prior coating. If it is a little patchy, the metal might be a little greasy or dirty. Re-clean the metal and try again. If it still is a little patchy, then you can take a brush and add a little more boric acid solution onto the patchy areas and let dry. Good to go. I hope this helps you. Thanks for your great question. Good Luck Greg Greenwood
Thank you, great explanation as always
You are welcome. Greg Greenwood
Hi, Greg. Is this method just to insulate the metal from air? Does it have the same fluxing function as borax?
Hello, Yes, You are correct about insulating the metal from air. And yes, it does have the fluxing function as borax as it is the same thing. But, the boric acid is not as thick on the metal, so it is not enough to solder. When you solder, you should put more borax flux on the solder joint. Thanks for a great question. I hope this helps you. Greg Greenwood
@@greggreenwood4628 Thank you for your reply. Your videos have really helped me a lot, a lot. It has been a long time since I have seen an update from you and I was worried about your health. Now it seems that you are all well and happy. May you be in good health! Thank you so much!
杨楠 , Thank you very much for your concern. I am much better now and feeling very good. I am working on a new video now about riveting. I hope to have it published soon. Thanks again for your concern and your questions. See you soon. Greg Greenwood
Just wanted to mention another method not covered here. It's a method called a nitrogen purge. hvac technicians use this method quite often when working on copper tubing. It works by displacing the oxygen near the work piece with nitrogen gas.
although hvac technicians use it for a different reason than firescale. this method won't work If you're using an oxy acetylene torch.
Hello Zero, Thank you for your comments, I appreciate it. Greg Greenwood
Is it contagious and is there any medication for it?
Thanks.
... let me know if you ever find out. 🤢
I buy .999 fine silver bullion and mill it myself. Problem solved.
Hello Johnny, Works perfect! Thank you. Greg Greenwood
I was taught that the flux, which in most cases is made of Borax cone, or commercial fluxes in liquid form, help the solder flow only where the flux is applied. When I solder, I have to coat the surrounding areas that I don't want solder to flow on with powdered jewelers rouge dampened to prevent the solder from flowing to any areas other than the one I want to apply the solder to. Otherwise, the solder will spread out where I don't want it or need it. Doesn't coating the piece with boric acid and denatured alcohol encourage the solder to flow everywhere as well, rather than to a specific point? Cheers friend and ty for the knowledge.
Hello, You are correct that solder will only flow where it is protected with flux. If the solder is flowing out and onto your project and away from the solder joint, then you are heating in the wrong areas. Try to concentrate your flame closer to your solder joint and heat both pieces evenly so both pieces come up to the melting temperature at the same time. The solder "wants" to stay in the solder joint, but it will always flow to the hottest spot. So if the solder is flowing away from the solder joint, then you are over heating and heating away from the joint too much. You should not have to use the rouge anti-flow technique for 99% of your soldering jobs. Heat control is your answer. Practice on a few pieces, turn your torch flame down a bit, and concentrate the flame on both pieces to be soldered at the joint, not the entire piece. Let me know how it goes. Greg Greenwood