@@oldsk00l well to be fair, its 500 dollars for most of the content. If you're broke cause 500 dollars then you should look at yourself and what you're doing. One day you'll get it together man and have some money to blow on bullshit
@@McMTG ahahahaha, nice try. All the poor fools who blow $500 on a mediocre game and defend it, those are the pathetic broke AF people huffing copium because they could’ve blown it on hookers & blow, orrrrr set fire to $500. With the weak ass content, you get more entertainment throwing $500 off a bridge than buying this shit. Lol nice try, but you outed yourself.
theres no good info here. i dont need a pity party about the devs being too stupid to make a new engine, and instead bandaid a 20 year old engine, and not even upgrade server tickrates about the garbage 20hz weve been stuck with. 20 year old engine 20 year old server. you can give a shit about the lame excuses all you want. this is all stuff that has been known if you gave a shit and werent lazy. all this money from suing cheaters and eververse predation and we got shitty ass 5hz tick rate at this point because the game is getting worse.
This is a pheonmenal video and a great history lesson. I love deep dives like this into some random niche aspect of the development of games I love. Really well made and well scripted. Kudos to you and your team!
I LOVE these types of videos in general. To see how far a gaming company has gone from with the Blam Engine to now. What makes them tick? Etc. I'm currently using the Godot Engine, so this is nice to see the similarities and differences.
Man, that Halo Reach E3 trailer where we see Noble Team for the first time is so damn good. Had to watch it again for the millionth time after seeing it here
Reach is a great game. I never really got into any of the Halo games since. The sad and essentially hopeless plot is rare in gaming where devs are scared to do anything other than a power fantasy where you always save the day.
Btw tomorrow is the final week of the season 22, next week is season 23! Which brings the huge buff to hand cannons in PVE. Not sure if in game LFG and the rangefinder nerf is with this one but if you haven’t done what you needed to do then this is the last week. Maybe hunt some HC godrolls for PVE in the meantime and some last minute prep for the reprised raid coming
That's the #1 thing I want to see from Bungie at this point. I have no interest in D2 anymore, I want a fresh start. That's the only thing that would truly reignite my desire to play Destiny again
Ill just say this once, engine is not an issue, for example unreal has been around since 1996 but you dont say games made in unreal 5 are using an outdated engine now do you?
I would go as far as to say that the pandemic let them make excuses. I can see some employees refusing to adapt this making it easier for them to scrap content as an excuse for negligence during that time. Obviously it was hard for everyone but their commitment to the community definitely got fractured and they have become too comfortable with under delivery
Not even a week ago every destiny streamer was shitting on bungie for what they've done. All it took was one list of exotic reworks and he they are trying to sell you the same broken / overpriced game.
Before Beyond Light they did explain in quite a bit of technical detail why they implemented subsetting going over technical issues of both memory and “virtual” space that things take up and the that some of those previous guns wouldn’t work with the weapon rework, which was rather extensive. Honestly the Tiger engine is amazing for what it does. Point to any other game where the gun play is as crisp or the movement as fluid. It’s not out there for a reason…
Despite all of the problems that the Tiger engine and Destiny 1/2 have or have had, you have to commend Bungie on a technical masterpiece. Destiny 1 ran at 720p, 30 frames per second on console hardware from 2005 (PS3 and Xbox 360). The Xbox 360 had 512MB of total system memory and only 10MB of dedicated video memory (VRAM) and was running on an outdated PowerPC CPU and an ATI GPU combo. The fact that a game as complex as Destiny 1, which released in 2014 and received updates on last-gen consoles until 2016, even ran on this old hardware is truly mind-blowing. Nowadays, we all complain about Destiny 2 performance issues and server issues, but I think some people don't realize how hard upkeeping a game as large as Destiny 2 can be. I'm not defending Bungie at all here, but the fact that D2 supports Xbox One/Series S/X, PS4/PS5, PC, and at one time Stadia, all while providing crossplay and PC OS/hardware/software changes, is extremely impressive. Sure, it's easy to point fingers at the Destiny engine and complain, but if you take a step back, the Tiger engine and the fact that it's lasted and evolved through so many years is something that few game studios or engine developers can say they've been able to achieve with any engine or game series.
And THAT right there is the BIGGEST problem with Destiny right now. It is STILL supported on Xbox One and PS4. Bungie and other developers need to MOVE ON FROM THE 8TH GENERATION CONSOLES!!!! Bungie did it once from the 7th Gen to the 8th Gen, and now it's time to do it again. But they won't.
@@RhapsodicXStyle07 you're right. I'd keep fixing the old bucket or just ignore problems with it. And all the while charging the people that ride more and more and more. Then when people complain I'll just say "it's hard"
@@cluelessclown Would you rather let good enough be or risk everything on something untested and unknown. The only people who are saying getting a new engine will fix everything are people who don't have any understanding and computer engineering.
I’m actually starting to watch Cross more and more again because of this content. At this point, most people know how to slam a Fallen SABRE with max rezz tokens in 10 mins, so this type of content is very welcome.
Cross, I don't normally comment but i just wanted to say: Thank you for giving a dev's perspective and explaining how engines evolve. More people need to understand what an engine is. As well as how the institutional knowledge of a company/devs is more important than losing your best engineers over using an over the counter engine.
Very good points. However, I would note that their claim of porting old content being nearly as time-consuming as making new content is indicative of some truly abysmal software design if it’s true.
@@ModuliOfRiemannSurfaces I dont work at Bungie, but I have worked on AAA games as an artist. Normally we have to lock off our source control for integration of engine tools where I work but since I work from home I dont get to talk to the engineers. Are you familiar integrating engine versions? Id love to understand a bit more.
The problem with Destiny, was not the engine, it was the tools needed to support the engine. Look at the Delivery Goals on the slide Cross showed. They gave themselves a C. It took forever to fix even the smallest thing because people had to go in and edit the code directly. Every pollygon was manually placed. You don't program this way, Bungie even knew this, but they were in a hurry to get D2 out the door so they took a lot of shortcuts. They have gotten better over time. For example, they can now make changes to gun architypes in one shot, vs manually having to edit each and every weapon in the game. You think S22 sandbox range reallignment could have been done 3 or 4 years ago, no way. The engine is just the base, it is the tools they build around the engine that either makes development easy and fast, or difficut and time consuming.
But what would that mean for vaulted content that according to "Bungie" would be reworked and added back? Cause as far as the signs show, Destiny 2 has been completely vaulted and since Beyond Light at least (when sunsetting was introduced), we are technically in Destiny 3 (since all of Destiny 2's content was vaulted).
@@DarthDragon007 - From a program point of view, vaulted content was said to save space. Yes, less things to take care of in the game, fewer encounters to QA with new items. Plus, it saves on console resources. Bungie probably ran a bunch of metrics to see who was running that old content and it was probably pretty small vs the cost of constantly having to test and maintain it on new releases. From a programming point of view, the fewer things in the game you have to maintain, the easier and faster it is to make changes to move forward.
@@rogerhuston8287 Which is why they should have kept going with creating Destiny 3 as a fully separate game for Beyond Light to Final Shape and not added in season content and battle passes. Complete with reworked engine that is able to support the changes to Destiny becoming a Live Service game. Destiny 2 and it's modified Tiger Engine was not made to support what Destiny has become now currently, Live Service. And in my opinion, why should it matter if we "start over" like people complained about? I get it, it'll suck to lose stuff you grinded hard for going into Destiny 3, but you aren't frikken losing it completely! It'll still be in Destiny 2, just not in Destiny 3!
@@DarthDragon007 - I'm not sure I agree with you. New game, new game engine, they are doing that with Marathon, not enough resources to do it for D3. Also, not sold on the idea new is better. New just comes with its own set of problems to overcome and D2 was just a shell of D1 at the start, it took years to get a game that felt as well rounded as D1 at the end. Not sure I want to start over. Besides, all those resources are going into Marathon, that is D3.
@Fenneken141 yeah none of this is because of Sony. At the end of the day, bungie isn't the same. Clearly, we know bungie is the problem after the Activision split.
@@Fenneken141how do people keep blaming anyone but bungie when they did this shit after the Acti split and before the Sony buyout, this had nothing to do with sony
Thanks for not being an extremist. I respect that you highlight sketchy stuff bungie does as well as help provide insight into conditions and challenges they face. At the end of the day though as long as the price we pay keeps going up, we still expect a completed job.
The Blam engine was phenomenal, and I think the Tiger engine is also great. The older Halo games still hold up remarkably well, and Destiny 2 feels amazing to play too, just from a purely mechanical standpoint. But it's pretty obvious that the Tiger engine wasn't designed for a game as massive as D2, and it needs a massive overhaul. If they really do plan to continue D2 after the Final Shape (which I seriously doubt), they need to take a break and just focus on upgrading the engine.
Best D2 Content Creator there currently is imo Content is edited in a way that makes them easy to watch and understand and makes every single video feel new, refreshing. I cant play d2 due to the sheer boredom and anger i get, but cross makes me wanna play every time.
Excellent video on the history of the Tiger Engine along with the early insighta of Destiny. One thing that I would mention is that Bungie themselves also blame their engine for its current shortcomings. This is important as this ties back to WHY the community feels that Destiny's engine is the problem.
Tbf the issues the game mainly face are server side which has nothing to do with the game engine. And from what I've seen of the behind the scenes development of in game content is quite easy back in d1 they said a whole armour set could take around a day to a day and a half of dev time so between 8-12 hours of work. Also the game engine is super lightweight at 1440p ultra in pc you pushing 2836mb of vram if it was on unreal or unity it would require a card with around 5gbs of vram due to the way it dose it's texture library. The fact you have people playing a 1080p 60 FPS on a gtx 970 today is impressive. And although the game has a multi thread rendering issue where GPUs are being under utilised due to the fact it was only coded for a quad core CPU. Back before witch queen you could turn on this setting in the config file and you would get a FPS boast of about 25-30fps at 1440p on a 1080ti on trostland but you would have graphical errors like the sea on titan not rendering and instead being a black void. But this isn't a priority fix for bungie as any GPU over a 2070 is getting around 140 FPS and if they fixed it you get closer to 230 FPS due to GPU usage being low. On Nessus I get currently 173fps on artifacts edge and my GPU usage is bouncing between 46% and 52% and I'm running a 4070ti on Ryzen 7 7800x3d so there no bottle neck hardware wise. If they fixed it my frame rate should increase by about 65% so around 285 FPS but because over 100 is playable it don't matter. Hopefully they will have fixed this in marathon as it's not an engine issue persay but the foundations the games built on
Yeah. They have to work so far in advance because of the engine and its really not conducive to a live service game. They will routinely announce a bug will be present in an update not coming for over a month, and say that the bug has been fixed, but the fix won't be deployed until the update after that one. Which tells you just how slow the development pace is. They can't respond quickly to feedback because they have to work so far in advance. Then theres the whole DCV clusterfuck which shouldn't even be legal. The way Bungie talks about development and their own admission that the engine causes problems shows that the Tiger engine has been holding Destiny back. A live service title needs more agile development to respond to issues and change things up.
Lightfall was the shot from the 6th floor for me. I no longer care what the problems are. I still love watching your youtube vids and catching a stream every once in a while. Thanks for being you and keep it up!
The buyout doesn’t mean they get billions to pay for development. It means the investors and stockholders get 3.6 billion, and bungie now needs Sony money
Thanks for the simplified look under the hood Cross, I know a lot of the D2 playerbase is......we'll say irritated with the technical aspects of Destiny rn, and it really helps, at least for me, to put all of the things that have happened into perspective. We can only hope that we are in the overhaul phase and all of this stuff is happening for a reason. As annoying as it is to get error coded in the present, personally I am willing to snort some Copium if it means a bright and stable future for Destiny as a franchise.
Either way removing the campaign is their problem not ours. They need to put the time and money into fixing it. Idgaf I miss the halo days when they kept the campaign accessible and playable forever
@@oldboy4271and the thing is I can understand sunsetting weapons for balancing issues but it also shows they were unwilling to rebalance those weapons. All they need to do is add the levels back and rework the loot pool to meet their standards so I know wtf is actually going on. I beat lighttfall first and I’m playing random campaigns In random orders
@@Odinarcade00 Mm. I'd have been happy with a complete sandbox reset, that wasn't the issue. Removing the actual content was the issue. In classic bungie fashion they were so noncommittal that they didn't even commit to the weapon sunsetting properly. Doing the staggered rollout so they didn't even get a fresh sandbox out of it.
@@ASpaceOstrich hell nah I WANNA PLAY THE CAMPAIGN why doesn’t anyone else? Why am I going crazy alone? Why does nobody understand I play bungie games to complete the campaign and then move on to the PvP? Is that alien?
"Setup basic pipeline, have content teams make prototypes, have technical teams learn about the code setup and underlying systems. Ideally you'd have the new team help a bit with the upstream work (easier if you're switching to another internal engine, harder if you're onboarding to something like Unreal). If you're particularly brave it could even happen during production. But the earlier the better. And then try to keep up with upstream as much as possible before diverging. Even after a game has gone gold it's probably still gonna be all hands on deck. So it's probably most often gonna happen as a new project starts. Regardless of the status of the previous project " A response I got from a developer in the Digital Foundry discord after I asked about the process of learning an engine and starting developing a new iteration.
I still don't find the sunsetting argument valid. If adding more content to the game caused issues, then you find back-end solutions to it, not force a front end solution on the users. An example is if google is having bandwidth capacity issues on CZcams, the correct solution would be to expand/increase the bandwidth, a back-end solution. The wrong solution would be to force every user to 360p max and thumbnails are now 180p max, a front end solution which makes the experience worse for every user.
Mm. They wanted to do a Destiny 3 but without the costs to themselves of doing a D3. So they deleted most of Destiny 2 instead. That shouldn't even have been legal, let alone a good idea. If the game couldn't handle adding more to it, thats their problem to solve. As it stands they picked the worst possible solution. They didn't get a fresh slate on either the sandbox front or technical fronts because they had all of the Destiny 2 gear still kicking around, but Destiny 2's content was irreversibly removed.
I have the filling that lightfall was so basic expansion so the team can have more time to make the final shape the perfect conclusion of the light and darkness saga
Here is what most people don't understand. Porting D2 over to Unreal engine would take years. Everything would need to be recreated, you can't just copy and paste. Plus, while Unreal may be great from a world building perspective, what makes Destingy, Destiny is the feel of the engine, the motion, the gunplay. So they would need to update the physics part as well. Lastly, there is the whole multiplayer communications aspects, the multiple messaging components that would all have to be worked out. This whole process would take years to do properly so they would have to pause all current development, lock the game for 2 years, to change the engine. OR, they can just fix what they have. Which would you choose?
Hopefully some people will take this as an opportunity to appreciate the scale and complexity of such things, and learn that sometimes you really are whining about things you don’t even remotely understand
Great video Cross . But I would point out a few things. Regardless of being their baby or not, If *and only IF*, the engine is indeed at the core of the issues. It needs to go. IF the engine is preventing the game from being stable IF The engine is preventing the game from keeping content IF The engine is preventing the game from growing IT needs to go. Doesn't matter if someone worked 10, 20 or 30 years on it. If it's no longer suitable, it needs to be replaced. And bear in mind, I know they will keep justifying keeping the engine through updated versions and improvements, but those are band aid fixes and delaying the issue to a later date, as before. Obviously, it all comes down to money. As long as they can keep milking money out of destiny without having to invest much into it, why would they? That money is better spent on Marathon instead. at this point, what we really should be asking is - IS Bungie even going to keep making Destiny after Final Shape ? Because if the final shape is the last one, Bungie couldnt care less about spending money on overhauling or even changing Destiny future engines.
the only way Destiny would ever change engines is with a D3. People vastly underestimate the work required. Whether that be 'switching' engines to a pre-made one like Unity or Unreal. Or building a new engine from scratch. (I may be a software engineer and not a game dev so I cannot speak with total authority, but I certainly know enough to have a good idea)
They're right in not changing the engine. This isn't some AAA studio who had a proprietary engine for a bunch of different games. No, the engine was taylor made FOR DESTINY. Why would anyone want any other generic engine instead of one taylor made for what the game does?
Last week of season 22 fellas and ladies 👀 Maybe they’ll be a cutscene or something leading us into the next season? Whatever it’ll be called. D2 may have its huge downs but when the new seasons drop or expansions, that fresh feeling always welcomes me home after a break 😌
I love this vid. I knew it ran off a version or hybrid of the blam engine. Also ngl you mad me.moist when showing those "versions" of shadow price (or wat i know that gun model by) making me wish we had that kind of customization instead of just choosing perks on a gun.
I get that the technical problems would be huge, but damn going through FF14 and able to play all the content they had since ARR has been awesome. I feel for those who can't play red war and all seasons up to now.
They asking for experience with Unreal could be something as simple as wanting someone familiarized with the workflow of an Engine so the transfer to Tiger can become easier, not necessarily to work something in Unreal.
2:28 it's sad to see how far the company is straying from this philosophy. I'm sure the majority of people at Bungie who are actually developing the games share this view as well, but Bungie as a whole is sadly valuing profit over joy and players. If you make something truly great, the money will come aplenty.
it's not only the engine, it's the infrastructure, And Migrating from one infrastructure to another is taking the damn effort, times, and testing, for games especially where u can't really pilot transition like business application, it may takes days or weeks
Yeah it would take years but if in 2010/2011 bungie thought the Blam engine was getting too old after a decade so then they completely overhauled it into the Tiger engine which is now also just over a decade old, should they not take 5+ years to overhaul it for the next Destiny entry maybe around the time of the next console generation? Like Destiny 2's content has not been evolving or really innovating in years, patrols are still basically the same as they were in D1 in terms of scale. I can only assume that Destiny 2 and its future is severely limited by its foundation. So I would not be against Destiny 2 going dark for them to really create an evolved and innovative Destiny experience 6+years down the road
@@Klodhvig the issue with live service, they can't have too long downtime, people will be mad This is why they do reboot on D1 to D2, where they can completely deploy the thing on new ecosystem. normally we would have Destiny 3, as Beyond Light, this allow bungie to have cutoff to make things more scalable to modern era. Not to mention no content were vaulted that way, but I guess Bungie don't want D2 Vanilla situation
You raise some interesting points towards the end of the video - it would be great for the game if it was only breaking now because they're focusing on fixing it for the future, and hearing that from Bungie themselves would likely win them back some faith from the community (though still not enough to get back in the good books). Which is exactly why I DON'T think that's what's going on behind the scenes. At any point, they (Bungie) could have said "hey, we're focusing on updating the engine across the board, so things might get rough for a while", and earned a lot of leeway from the players. That holds especially true now, when player sentiment is so overwhelmingly negative. So why not say it if that's the reason? To me, only two options make sense: A) There are no grand, widespread improvements being made or B) The PR Team/Management think it's smarter to surprise us with it when the updates are ready Given that, as I mentioned, player sentiment is the lowest it's been since CoO, the game might die (which is only a slight exaggeration at this point) before those updates are done, so the management/PR team would have to have a room-temperature IQ to think option B is viable Feel free to reply with any questions/discussion you feel appropriate, as I still genuinely want this game to see its potential realised. I'm just realising how unlikely that is. (For reference, I've been around since early D1, have several thousand hours in the franchise, and stuck with it through every lull and dip. I even played consistently through the various content droughts and got on nearly every day in CoO. Now, I haven't played more than 3 hours in the several weeks since the seasonal story ended.)
I'm an indie game dev with some experience in Triple A. I can tell you that they won't abandon the engine, just like Epic Games never abandoned Unreal Engine 1 which is now UE 5. When people don't have game development experience, they have no idea as to how complex a game engine is... that is why I dislike to see people asking a gaming company to "just change the game engine". Game Engines are literally are able to simulate real life, meaning physics. What do you think goes into programming all of it? You don't just need programmers, but real mathematicians and physicists, people who actually know how real life works. Game Engines are MASSIVE, absolute massive and even after YEARS of working on one, it WILL still suck, nowhere near good enough to make a Triple A game.
Now do one on Bungie's back end infrastructure, which is the thing that's causing all the instability pain right now. Content production pain: the tools built around the Tiger engine. Getting kicked back to orbit in the middle of something: the back end. I wanna know what their stack is, and I bet Cross is the person who could find out.
I'm just curious, if they knew the blam engine wouldn't be sustainable long term, and they just decided to retrofit it to their needs anyway, how come they didn't have future sight to know that the tiger engine would have a limit as well? Things evolve in development all the time, and you have to try your best to future proof everything. Maybe I'm just not seeing it through their eyes, since this is a live service game, and nearly all games like these run on the same engine for decades... I don't know anymore.
Will we get a video of what Destiny 1 was ever supposed to be before the full rewrite? Like a real/non-speculative video about what really happened. Why can't we have this story yet?
I'll never forget the time Bungie let slip that it took so long to load maps into their editor the map team would start loading a map before they left work and hope it didn't crash overnight.
It’s a miracle games exist in the first place. I’m a early 90’s kid and seeing what we have now compared to back then is amazing. To think that I payed $60 for Mario 2 when it came out and we thought that was next level.
Not going to lie, this video was super helpful in quelling my frustration with Bungie’s systems. With the end of the light and dark saga coming with final shape, maybe it makes sense to move to a new engine the following year. It would be a good break away point as we move to find battles outside of Sol.
If they move to a new engine, or even a massively updated version of -Blam!-, it’s doubtful they would rebuild everything. Most likely it would just be a whole new game.
@@deriznohappehquite I’m sure with today’s technology and capability they could find a way to port our characters, accounts, and assets to that new game though. I know it wouldn’t be easy, but I would think it’s possible. Even if it’s not, that’s the perfect time for a new launch similar to what they did with D2, but without the need to reacquire our light/dark abilities.
@@GoFasters27 I’m pretty sure you’d lose absolutely everything, and would only get a few basic subclasses. Again, it effectively wouldn’t be Destiny 2 anymore. It’s not uncommon for devs to make multiple games on the same engine (like Oblivion, Fallout 3, and Fallout: New Vegas). I’ve never heard of a single game switching to a new engine.
@@deriznohappehquite I think most players would be okay with a new game launch post light/dark saga. I could be way off, but that seems like a perfect time for a reset to allow for greater support to their systems. I could be wrong about community opinion on this though so 🤷♂️.
I feel like if there have been teams in the past couple years more focused on an overhaul to the Tiger engine to support Bungie and Destiny in the long-haul, that's something they just need to be more transparent about. I'll be frank. I would rather have 3-4 years of absolutely no support for Destiny whatsoever if that means it can return triumphantly as the game we all wish it could be. When Bungie shifted gears from Halo Reach and ODST to Destiny 1, this was the case... And they not only survived that transition, but came out from it better than ever. Recently game devs have been making the arguments to their community "it's okay to take a break." Maybe that's genuinely what we all need. Bungie is so focused on retention of players, it could be preventing them from making the game come to a state that would ultimately bring us all back and make us all happy again.
This engine is amazing! It's fast and a lot can happen at any one time on screen. I wonder however, if it limits them from making truly open world games. I would love a more open world over the smaller play areas that Destiny currently has that restricts the player from going anywhere so heavily. Also I wonder if they will in the future implement real time day and night cycles with ray tracing. If they can one day pull off roughly the same performance todays engine has, but with those features, it could really help bring Destiny to the next level.
Would be interesting to see The Final Shape's patrol zone be the most open and interconnected free roam area in the game's history. Not just to see if it can be done but to also see what needs tweaking performance wise for a hypothetical Tiger Engine 2.0 overhaul.
@@danny_dinthead8858 Imagine seeing in the distance a large battle happening and you have to fight though a bunch of enemies to work your way there. I really wish they could do those kinds of things. It would feel more epic.
I feel like such an idiot I've seen that concept image with the tiger and what I'm assuming to be a guardian countless times, but now only just noticed the actual tiger in the image. Also all the tiger stripe emblems and shaders in destiny 1 and 2 now make so much more sense I feel crazy for not seeing it back then.
the engine is absolutely unreal not gonna lie, yeah the downtimes suck sometimes but the gameplay is like no other game
lmao, you must not play very many games...because you have no money from giving it all to Bungie for ripping you off.
@@oldsk00lman just shut up 😆
yah man, the engine is beast.
@@oldsk00l well to be fair, its 500 dollars for most of the content. If you're broke cause 500 dollars then you should look at yourself and what you're doing. One day you'll get it together man and have some money to blow on bullshit
@@McMTG ahahahaha, nice try. All the poor fools who blow $500 on a mediocre game and defend it, those are the pathetic broke AF people huffing copium because they could’ve blown it on hookers & blow, orrrrr set fire to $500. With the weak ass content, you get more entertainment throwing $500 off a bridge than buying this shit. Lol nice try, but you outed yourself.
So much good info here that we would never see, otherwise. The development timeline details were fantastic.
Definitely the types of videos we need to see more of, not some "yOu dOnT kNow aBoUt eNgiNe nEitHeR dO I" stuff lol
theres no good info here. i dont need a pity party about the devs being too stupid to make a new engine, and instead bandaid a 20 year old engine, and not even upgrade server tickrates about the garbage 20hz weve been stuck with. 20 year old engine 20 year old server.
you can give a shit about the lame excuses all you want. this is all stuff that has been known if you gave a shit and werent lazy. all this money from suing cheaters and eververse predation and we got shitty ass 5hz tick rate at this point because the game is getting worse.
To be fair, the talk 80% of this comes from has been on CZcams since 2015. People just don’t know to watch the GDC talks because they’re dry af
This is a pheonmenal video and a great history lesson. I love deep dives like this into some random niche aspect of the development of games I love.
Really well made and well scripted. Kudos to you and your team!
I LOVE these types of videos in general. To see how far a gaming company has gone from with the Blam Engine to now. What makes them tick? Etc. I'm currently using the Godot Engine, so this is nice to see the similarities and differences.
Check out November hotel
based godot user
@@Chris-iq5pr W november hotel viewer
@@Chris-iq5pr I've seen his videos about the game engine too. There soild videos.
Money makes them tick. That’s it.
Man, that Halo Reach E3 trailer where we see Noble Team for the first time is so damn good. Had to watch it again for the millionth time after seeing it here
Reach is a great game. I never really got into any of the Halo games since. The sad and essentially hopeless plot is rare in gaming where devs are scared to do anything other than a power fantasy where you always save the day.
Alright, now we need a history for every hamster that worked on the Tiger Engine
Bungie powering Destiny how Doofenshmirtz powered Norm.
@@osteohiveporosis6882how
They can’t because they are under NDA 😂😂😂
Many Hamsters died to get us this engine.
You're not funny
I was excited for this video and you didn't disappoint. Great work to Cross and his team.
🍻
Why are so many important people at Bungie named Chris? I count 3 now right?
Just as common as Alex
@@Odinarcade00 fair yeah
Btw tomorrow is the final week of the season 22, next week is season 23! Which brings the huge buff to hand cannons in PVE. Not sure if in game LFG and the rangefinder nerf is with this one but if you haven’t done what you needed to do then this is the last week. Maybe hunt some HC godrolls for PVE in the meantime and some last minute prep for the reprised raid coming
Would be super cool if they made a new badass engine and called it the Warmind engine
That's the #1 thing I want to see from Bungie at this point. I have no interest in D2 anymore, I want a fresh start. That's the only thing that would truly reignite my desire to play Destiny again
@@BethesdaModdercan’t wait for them to try to sell us new exotic ornaments for the same reissued exotic weapons in a “new” game….
The telesto engine
Lmao love how there’s a bottle of patron on his desk at 3:08
Ill just say this once, engine is not an issue, for example unreal has been around since 1996 but you dont say games made in unreal 5 are using an outdated engine now do you?
Ya know, content is hard and stuff....
I would go as far as to say that the pandemic let them make excuses. I can see some employees refusing to adapt this making it easier for them to scrap content as an excuse for negligence during that time. Obviously it was hard for everyone but their commitment to the community definitely got fractured and they have become too comfortable with under delivery
Not even a week ago every destiny streamer was shitting on bungie for what they've done. All it took was one list of exotic reworks and he they are trying to sell you the same broken / overpriced game.
Before Beyond Light they did explain in quite a bit of technical detail why they implemented subsetting going over technical issues of both memory and “virtual” space that things take up and the that some of those previous guns wouldn’t work with the weapon rework, which was rather extensive. Honestly the Tiger engine is amazing for what it does. Point to any other game where the gun play is as crisp or the movement as fluid. It’s not out there for a reason…
Fantastic video Cross! Informative and well put together. Loved it 🙏🏼
Despite all of the problems that the Tiger engine and Destiny 1/2 have or have had, you have to commend Bungie on a technical masterpiece. Destiny 1 ran at 720p, 30 frames per second on console hardware from 2005 (PS3 and Xbox 360). The Xbox 360 had 512MB of total system memory and only 10MB of dedicated video memory (VRAM) and was running on an outdated PowerPC CPU and an ATI GPU combo. The fact that a game as complex as Destiny 1, which released in 2014 and received updates on last-gen consoles until 2016, even ran on this old hardware is truly mind-blowing. Nowadays, we all complain about Destiny 2 performance issues and server issues, but I think some people don't realize how hard upkeeping a game as large as Destiny 2 can be. I'm not defending Bungie at all here, but the fact that D2 supports Xbox One/Series S/X, PS4/PS5, PC, and at one time Stadia, all while providing crossplay and PC OS/hardware/software changes, is extremely impressive. Sure, it's easy to point fingers at the Destiny engine and complain, but if you take a step back, the Tiger engine and the fact that it's lasted and evolved through so many years is something that few game studios or engine developers can say they've been able to achieve with any engine or game series.
And THAT right there is the BIGGEST problem with Destiny right now. It is STILL supported on Xbox One and PS4. Bungie and other developers need to MOVE ON FROM THE 8TH GENERATION CONSOLES!!!! Bungie did it once from the 7th Gen to the 8th Gen, and now it's time to do it again. But they won't.
One man's tecjnical masterpiece is another mans held together with zip ties and duck tape miracle
@@cluelessclownWould you rather fix your bucket just to get you from point a to b or to make whole a new car that could still be a bucket.
@@RhapsodicXStyle07 you're right. I'd keep fixing the old bucket or just ignore problems with it. And all the while charging the people that ride more and more and more. Then when people complain I'll just say "it's hard"
@@cluelessclown Would you rather let good enough be or risk everything on something untested and unknown. The only people who are saying getting a new engine will fix everything are people who don't have any understanding and computer engineering.
Glad to see you branching out more, this analytical stuff is good.
I’m actually starting to watch Cross more and more again because of this content. At this point, most people know how to slam a Fallen SABRE with max rezz tokens in 10 mins, so this type of content is very welcome.
Cross, I don't normally comment but i just wanted to say:
Thank you for giving a dev's perspective and explaining how engines evolve. More people need to understand what an engine is. As well as how the institutional knowledge of a company/devs is more important than losing your best engineers over using an over the counter engine.
Very good points. However, I would note that their claim of porting old content being nearly as time-consuming as making new content is indicative of some truly abysmal software design if it’s true.
@@ModuliOfRiemannSurfaces I dont work at Bungie, but I have worked on AAA games as an artist. Normally we have to lock off our source control for integration of engine tools where I work but since I work from home I dont get to talk to the engineers. Are you familiar integrating engine versions? Id love to understand a bit more.
The problem with Destiny, was not the engine, it was the tools needed to support the engine. Look at the Delivery Goals on the slide Cross showed. They gave themselves a C. It took forever to fix even the smallest thing because people had to go in and edit the code directly. Every pollygon was manually placed. You don't program this way, Bungie even knew this, but they were in a hurry to get D2 out the door so they took a lot of shortcuts. They have gotten better over time. For example, they can now make changes to gun architypes in one shot, vs manually having to edit each and every weapon in the game. You think S22 sandbox range reallignment could have been done 3 or 4 years ago, no way.
The engine is just the base, it is the tools they build around the engine that either makes development easy and fast, or difficut and time consuming.
But what would that mean for vaulted content that according to "Bungie" would be reworked and added back? Cause as far as the signs show, Destiny 2 has been completely vaulted and since Beyond Light at least (when sunsetting was introduced), we are technically in Destiny 3 (since all of Destiny 2's content was vaulted).
Very well put. Thank you for this insightful reply. Bless.
@@DarthDragon007 - From a program point of view, vaulted content was said to save space. Yes, less things to take care of in the game, fewer encounters to QA with new items. Plus, it saves on console resources. Bungie probably ran a bunch of metrics to see who was running that old content and it was probably pretty small vs the cost of constantly having to test and maintain it on new releases. From a programming point of view, the fewer things in the game you have to maintain, the easier and faster it is to make changes to move forward.
@@rogerhuston8287 Which is why they should have kept going with creating Destiny 3 as a fully separate game for Beyond Light to Final Shape and not added in season content and battle passes. Complete with reworked engine that is able to support the changes to Destiny becoming a Live Service game. Destiny 2 and it's modified Tiger Engine was not made to support what Destiny has become now currently, Live Service.
And in my opinion, why should it matter if we "start over" like people complained about? I get it, it'll suck to lose stuff you grinded hard for going into Destiny 3, but you aren't frikken losing it completely! It'll still be in Destiny 2, just not in Destiny 3!
@@DarthDragon007 - I'm not sure I agree with you. New game, new game engine, they are doing that with Marathon, not enough resources to do it for D3. Also, not sold on the idea new is better. New just comes with its own set of problems to overcome and D2 was just a shell of D1 at the start, it took years to get a game that felt as well rounded as D1 at the end. Not sure I want to start over. Besides, all those resources are going into Marathon, that is D3.
"Bungie's purpose is to make great stuff". Hits very differently now.
now it’s make as much money as possible, quality or stability be damned
“Bungie’s purpose is to make less content and charge more money” - Mr. Bungie 2023
@Fenneken141 yeah none of this is because of Sony. At the end of the day, bungie isn't the same. Clearly, we know bungie is the problem after the Activision split.
@@Fenneken141i think Destiny is owned by Bungie regardless if Sony bought the company. Sony might have say on their other games though.
@@Fenneken141how do people keep blaming anyone but bungie when they did this shit after the Acti split and before the Sony buyout, this had nothing to do with sony
You’ve become the premier D2 content creator, and I love it. Great content, cross
Thanks for not being an extremist. I respect that you highlight sketchy stuff bungie does as well as help provide insight into conditions and challenges they face. At the end of the day though as long as the price we pay keeps going up, we still expect a completed job.
The Blam engine was phenomenal, and I think the Tiger engine is also great. The older Halo games still hold up remarkably well, and Destiny 2 feels amazing to play too, just from a purely mechanical standpoint. But it's pretty obvious that the Tiger engine wasn't designed for a game as massive as D2, and it needs a massive overhaul. If they really do plan to continue D2 after the Final Shape (which I seriously doubt), they need to take a break and just focus on upgrading the engine.
2:36 man do i miss this Bungie 😢
Best D2 Content Creator there currently is imo
Content is edited in a way that makes them easy to watch and understand and makes every single video feel new, refreshing.
I cant play d2 due to the sheer boredom and anger i get, but cross makes me wanna play every time.
I'm a simple man, Aztecross uploads, I bust 🫡
Dude, same
Excuse me!?! Nah that’s mad S U S
Amen, brother.
Ayoooo
Amen
I like that Europa was such a big thing for the engine and then they never did anything with that going forward.
Excellent video on the history of the Tiger Engine along with the early insighta of Destiny. One thing that I would mention is that Bungie themselves also blame their engine for its current shortcomings. This is important as this ties back to WHY the community feels that Destiny's engine is the problem.
Tbf the issues the game mainly face are server side which has nothing to do with the game engine. And from what I've seen of the behind the scenes development of in game content is quite easy back in d1 they said a whole armour set could take around a day to a day and a half of dev time so between 8-12 hours of work. Also the game engine is super lightweight at 1440p ultra in pc you pushing 2836mb of vram if it was on unreal or unity it would require a card with around 5gbs of vram due to the way it dose it's texture library. The fact you have people playing a 1080p 60 FPS on a gtx 970 today is impressive. And although the game has a multi thread rendering issue where GPUs are being under utilised due to the fact it was only coded for a quad core CPU. Back before witch queen you could turn on this setting in the config file and you would get a FPS boast of about 25-30fps at 1440p on a 1080ti on trostland but you would have graphical errors like the sea on titan not rendering and instead being a black void. But this isn't a priority fix for bungie as any GPU over a 2070 is getting around 140 FPS and if they fixed it you get closer to 230 FPS due to GPU usage being low. On Nessus I get currently 173fps on artifacts edge and my GPU usage is bouncing between 46% and 52% and I'm running a 4070ti on Ryzen 7 7800x3d so there no bottle neck hardware wise. If they fixed it my frame rate should increase by about 65% so around 285 FPS but because over 100 is playable it don't matter. Hopefully they will have fixed this in marathon as it's not an engine issue persay but the foundations the games built on
Yeah. They have to work so far in advance because of the engine and its really not conducive to a live service game. They will routinely announce a bug will be present in an update not coming for over a month, and say that the bug has been fixed, but the fix won't be deployed until the update after that one. Which tells you just how slow the development pace is. They can't respond quickly to feedback because they have to work so far in advance. Then theres the whole DCV clusterfuck which shouldn't even be legal.
The way Bungie talks about development and their own admission that the engine causes problems shows that the Tiger engine has been holding Destiny back. A live service title needs more agile development to respond to issues and change things up.
Whoever edited in that Ice Age clip, bravo. It was so well synced with Cross talking.
Lightfall was the shot from the 6th floor for me. I no longer care what the problems are. I still love watching your youtube vids and catching a stream every once in a while. Thanks for being you and keep it up!
I've been looking forward for this video, thank you cross and his team!
The buyout doesn’t mean they get billions to pay for development. It means the investors and stockholders get 3.6 billion, and bungie now needs Sony money
3:09 this man has a bottle of Patrón on his desk😂
love this video cause its something POSITIVE and explain the hardships in game dev , Game Engines and YES Destiny engine is Bungies BABY
I'm a day 1 destiny player and 3D animation student hoping to work in video games, this video is amazing stuff man! Thank you!
Thanks for the simplified look under the hood Cross, I know a lot of the D2 playerbase is......we'll say irritated with the technical aspects of Destiny rn, and it really helps, at least for me, to put all of the things that have happened into perspective. We can only hope that we are in the overhaul phase and all of this stuff is happening for a reason. As annoying as it is to get error coded in the present, personally I am willing to snort some Copium if it means a bright and stable future for Destiny as a franchise.
Either way removing the campaign is their problem not ours. They need to put the time and money into fixing it. Idgaf I miss the halo days when they kept the campaign accessible and playable forever
Imagine how much content we would have if nothing was ever removed or put into DCV....😔
@@oldboy4271and the thing is I can understand sunsetting weapons for balancing issues but it also shows they were unwilling to rebalance those weapons. All they need to do is add the levels back and rework the loot pool to meet their standards so I know wtf is actually going on. I beat lighttfall first and I’m playing random campaigns In random orders
@@Odinarcade00 Mm. I'd have been happy with a complete sandbox reset, that wasn't the issue. Removing the actual content was the issue.
In classic bungie fashion they were so noncommittal that they didn't even commit to the weapon sunsetting properly. Doing the staggered rollout so they didn't even get a fresh sandbox out of it.
@@ASpaceOstrich hell nah I WANNA PLAY THE CAMPAIGN why doesn’t anyone else? Why am I going crazy alone? Why does nobody understand I play bungie games to complete the campaign and then move on to the PvP? Is that alien?
This was such a good well put together video. Thank you for this 😊
"Setup basic pipeline, have content teams make prototypes, have technical teams learn about the code setup and underlying systems.
Ideally you'd have the new team help a bit with the upstream work (easier if you're switching to another internal engine, harder if you're onboarding to something like Unreal).
If you're particularly brave it could even happen during production. But the earlier the better. And then try to keep up with upstream as much as possible before diverging.
Even after a game has gone gold it's probably still gonna be all hands on deck. So it's probably most often gonna happen as a new project starts.
Regardless of the status of the previous project "
A response I got from a developer in the Digital Foundry discord after I asked about the process of learning an engine and starting developing a new iteration.
1997 is the year the Blam! Manga released. Strange coincidence?
Great video! Different from the usual. I loved it!
I still don't find the sunsetting argument valid. If adding more content to the game caused issues, then you find back-end solutions to it, not force a front end solution on the users. An example is if google is having bandwidth capacity issues on CZcams, the correct solution would be to expand/increase the bandwidth, a back-end solution. The wrong solution would be to force every user to 360p max and thumbnails are now 180p max, a front end solution which makes the experience worse for every user.
Mm. They wanted to do a Destiny 3 but without the costs to themselves of doing a D3. So they deleted most of Destiny 2 instead. That shouldn't even have been legal, let alone a good idea. If the game couldn't handle adding more to it, thats their problem to solve. As it stands they picked the worst possible solution. They didn't get a fresh slate on either the sandbox front or technical fronts because they had all of the Destiny 2 gear still kicking around, but Destiny 2's content was irreversibly removed.
Well done good sir, this was objective information that is helpful for folks to know.
Great video! this is actually your best video
Awesome video, really brings focus to what Bungie has done and will probably do in the near future.
I have the filling that lightfall was so basic expansion so the team can have more time to make the final shape the perfect conclusion of the light and darkness saga
It's really awesome seeing these pipelines. The idea of playing Destiny in Halo Reach is pretty wild.
Here is what most people don't understand. Porting D2 over to Unreal engine would take years. Everything would need to be recreated, you can't just copy and paste. Plus, while Unreal may be great from a world building perspective, what makes Destingy, Destiny is the feel of the engine, the motion, the gunplay. So they would need to update the physics part as well. Lastly, there is the whole multiplayer communications aspects, the multiple messaging components that would all have to be worked out. This whole process would take years to do properly so they would have to pause all current development, lock the game for 2 years, to change the engine. OR, they can just fix what they have. Which would you choose?
Never expected this kind of video but I welcome it entirely, awesome info
One of your most unique vids, I love it. Keep crushing it Cross
i honestly really like the look of the tiger engine
It was good a few years ago... We are now in 2023!
@@Dan-jl5ej but whats bad about it?
Great work as usual, lots to learn for me since I'm working in the software industry as well but is there a way to get the GDC talk mentioned here?
Hopefully some people will take this as an opportunity to appreciate the scale and complexity of such things, and learn that sometimes you really are whining about things you don’t even remotely understand
Love your energy ! Great content
really liked this video, thanks cross
Great video Cross . But I would point out a few things.
Regardless of being their baby or not, If *and only IF*, the engine is indeed at the core of the issues.
It needs to go.
IF the engine is preventing the game from being stable
IF The engine is preventing the game from keeping content
IF The engine is preventing the game from growing
IT needs to go.
Doesn't matter if someone worked 10, 20 or 30 years on it. If it's no longer suitable, it needs to be replaced.
And bear in mind, I know they will keep justifying keeping the engine through updated versions and improvements, but those are band aid fixes and delaying the issue to a later date, as before.
Obviously, it all comes down to money. As long as they can keep milking money out of destiny without having to invest much into it, why would they? That money is better spent on Marathon instead.
at this point, what we really should be asking is - IS Bungie even going to keep making Destiny after Final Shape ?
Because if the final shape is the last one, Bungie couldnt care less about spending money on overhauling or even changing Destiny future engines.
the only way Destiny would ever change engines is with a D3. People vastly underestimate the work required. Whether that be 'switching' engines to a pre-made one like Unity or Unreal. Or building a new engine from scratch. (I may be a software engineer and not a game dev so I cannot speak with total authority, but I certainly know enough to have a good idea)
We need Destiny 3! Clean slate and a chance to upgrade their engine with a fresh start!
They're right in not changing the engine. This isn't some AAA studio who had a proprietary engine for a bunch of different games. No, the engine was taylor made FOR DESTINY. Why would anyone want any other generic engine instead of one taylor made for what the game does?
Last week of season 22 fellas and ladies 👀
Maybe they’ll be a cutscene or something leading us into the next season? Whatever it’ll be called. D2 may have its huge downs but when the new seasons drop or expansions, that fresh feeling always welcomes me home after a break 😌
Very informative as I know nothing about computing and have been playing destiny since day one, so it was good to hear it in layman's terms thank you
Awesome video man.
I love this vid. I knew it ran off a version or hybrid of the blam engine. Also ngl you mad me.moist when showing those "versions" of shadow price (or wat i know that gun model by) making me wish we had that kind of customization instead of just choosing perks on a gun.
cross, you’re the goat. great video
I get that the technical problems would be huge, but damn going through FF14 and able to play all the content they had since ARR has been awesome.
I feel for those who can't play red war and all seasons up to now.
Considering ARR was on a different engine from 1.0
LOL instead of Tiger engine...i read Tired Engine...i mean it fits. Made me laugh. Awsome vid!
Tiger! Tiger! Ti...........gggggggg.........errr!
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They asking for experience with Unreal could be something as simple as wanting someone familiarized with the workflow of an Engine so the transfer to Tiger can become easier, not necessarily to work something in Unreal.
Finally the video ive been teased with. its gonna be amazing
2:28 it's sad to see how far the company is straying from this philosophy. I'm sure the majority of people at Bungie who are actually developing the games share this view as well, but Bungie as a whole is sadly valuing profit over joy and players. If you make something truly great, the money will come aplenty.
The reason why it’s different is because Halo was an advertisement for Xbox.
The main reason is gamers sadly they accept anything from developers they need to start holding the products they purchase to a higher value
Dude this was excellent research you've done.
This was a great watch
The video we’ve all been waiting for!
i was born feb 24 1997 so this hits hard been a bungie fan since i could hold an xbox controller
Yee yee been waiting for this
Great video of very informative about bungie and all..a lot of research is being done..great video
it's not only the engine, it's the infrastructure,
And Migrating from one infrastructure to another is taking the damn effort, times, and testing, for games especially where u can't really pilot transition like business application, it may takes days or weeks
Yeah it would take years but if in 2010/2011 bungie thought the Blam engine was getting too old after a decade so then they completely overhauled it into the Tiger engine which is now also just over a decade old, should they not take 5+ years to overhaul it for the next Destiny entry maybe around the time of the next console generation?
Like Destiny 2's content has not been evolving or really innovating in years, patrols are still basically the same as they were in D1 in terms of scale. I can only assume that Destiny 2 and its future is severely limited by its foundation. So I would not be against Destiny 2 going dark for them to really create an evolved and innovative Destiny experience 6+years down the road
@@Klodhvig
the issue with live service, they can't have too long downtime, people will be mad
This is why they do reboot on D1 to D2, where they can completely deploy the thing on new ecosystem.
normally we would have Destiny 3, as Beyond Light, this allow bungie to have cutoff to make things more scalable to modern era.
Not to mention no content were vaulted that way, but I guess Bungie don't want D2 Vanilla situation
Thank you so much for this video! I learned a lot. I know this must have taken a bunch of time to make.
awesome vid, really interesting. TY.
You raise some interesting points towards the end of the video - it would be great for the game if it was only breaking now because they're focusing on fixing it for the future, and hearing that from Bungie themselves would likely win them back some faith from the community (though still not enough to get back in the good books).
Which is exactly why I DON'T think that's what's going on behind the scenes. At any point, they (Bungie) could have said "hey, we're focusing on updating the engine across the board, so things might get rough for a while", and earned a lot of leeway from the players. That holds especially true now, when player sentiment is so overwhelmingly negative. So why not say it if that's the reason?
To me, only two options make sense:
A) There are no grand, widespread improvements being made or
B) The PR Team/Management think it's smarter to surprise us with it when the updates are ready
Given that, as I mentioned, player sentiment is the lowest it's been since CoO, the game might die (which is only a slight exaggeration at this point) before those updates are done, so the management/PR team would have to have a room-temperature IQ to think option B is viable
Feel free to reply with any questions/discussion you feel appropriate, as I still genuinely want this game to see its potential realised. I'm just realising how unlikely that is.
(For reference, I've been around since early D1, have several thousand hours in the franchise, and stuck with it through every lull and dip. I even played consistently through the various content droughts and got on nearly every day in CoO. Now, I haven't played more than 3 hours in the several weeks since the seasonal story ended.)
I love this type of videos, keep up the good content Aztecross
I'm an indie game dev with some experience in Triple A. I can tell you that they won't abandon the engine, just like Epic Games never abandoned Unreal Engine 1 which is now UE 5. When people don't have game development experience, they have no idea as to how complex a game engine is... that is why I dislike to see people asking a gaming company to "just change the game engine". Game Engines are literally are able to simulate real life, meaning physics. What do you think goes into programming all of it? You don't just need programmers, but real mathematicians and physicists, people who actually know how real life works. Game Engines are MASSIVE, absolute massive and even after YEARS of working on one, it WILL still suck, nowhere near good enough to make a Triple A game.
Another day boys, and another cross vid!
Now do one on Bungie's back end infrastructure, which is the thing that's causing all the instability pain right now. Content production pain: the tools built around the Tiger engine. Getting kicked back to orbit in the middle of something: the back end. I wanna know what their stack is, and I bet Cross is the person who could find out.
This is a seriously great video bro!
I'm just curious, if they knew the blam engine wouldn't be sustainable long term, and they just decided to retrofit it to their needs anyway, how come they didn't have future sight to know that the tiger engine would have a limit as well? Things evolve in development all the time, and you have to try your best to future proof everything. Maybe I'm just not seeing it through their eyes, since this is a live service game, and nearly all games like these run on the same engine for decades... I don't know anymore.
This was awesome!
Will we get a video of what Destiny 1 was ever supposed to be before the full rewrite? Like a real/non-speculative video about what really happened. Why can't we have this story yet?
If you mean the story, the Traveler is evil and the player character Guarduan rebels with some outlaws.
I'll never forget the time Bungie let slip that it took so long to load maps into their editor the map team would start loading a map before they left work and hope it didn't crash overnight.
Great stuff cross, thank you for sharing... as complex as it sounds... Bungies baby growing up now🙂
It’s a miracle games exist in the first place. I’m a early 90’s kid and seeing what we have now compared to back then is amazing. To think that I payed $60 for Mario 2 when it came out and we thought that was next level.
Aztecross is on fire lately with his content.
Not going to lie, this video was super helpful in quelling my frustration with Bungie’s systems. With the end of the light and dark saga coming with final shape, maybe it makes sense to move to a new engine the following year. It would be a good break away point as we move to find battles outside of Sol.
If they move to a new engine, or even a massively updated version of -Blam!-, it’s doubtful they would rebuild everything. Most likely it would just be a whole new game.
@@deriznohappehquite I’m sure with today’s technology and capability they could find a way to port our characters, accounts, and assets to that new game though. I know it wouldn’t be easy, but I would think it’s possible. Even if it’s not, that’s the perfect time for a new launch similar to what they did with D2, but without the need to reacquire our light/dark abilities.
@@GoFasters27 I’m pretty sure you’d lose absolutely everything, and would only get a few basic subclasses. Again, it effectively wouldn’t be Destiny 2 anymore.
It’s not uncommon for devs to make multiple games on the same engine (like Oblivion, Fallout 3, and Fallout: New Vegas). I’ve never heard of a single game switching to a new engine.
@@deriznohappehquite I think most players would be okay with a new game launch post light/dark saga. I could be way off, but that seems like a perfect time for a reset to allow for greater support to their systems. I could be wrong about community opinion on this though so 🤷♂️.
Ooo AzTechross is here, let's see what's cookin
I feel like if there have been teams in the past couple years more focused on an overhaul to the Tiger engine to support Bungie and Destiny in the long-haul, that's something they just need to be more transparent about.
I'll be frank. I would rather have 3-4 years of absolutely no support for Destiny whatsoever if that means it can return triumphantly as the game we all wish it could be. When Bungie shifted gears from Halo Reach and ODST to Destiny 1, this was the case... And they not only survived that transition, but came out from it better than ever.
Recently game devs have been making the arguments to their community "it's okay to take a break."
Maybe that's genuinely what we all need. Bungie is so focused on retention of players, it could be preventing them from making the game come to a state that would ultimately bring us all back and make us all happy again.
More people should make videos like this one. To help people understand what goes into game development.
This engine is amazing! It's fast and a lot can happen at any one time on screen. I wonder however, if it limits them from making truly open world games. I would love a more open world over the smaller play areas that Destiny currently has that restricts the player from going anywhere so heavily. Also I wonder if they will in the future implement real time day and night cycles with ray tracing. If they can one day pull off roughly the same performance todays engine has, but with those features, it could really help bring Destiny to the next level.
Would be interesting to see The Final Shape's patrol zone be the most open and interconnected free roam area in the game's history. Not just to see if it can be done but to also see what needs tweaking performance wise for a hypothetical Tiger Engine 2.0 overhaul.
@@danny_dinthead8858 Imagine seeing in the distance a large battle happening and you have to fight though a bunch of enemies to work your way there. I really wish they could do those kinds of things. It would feel more epic.
6:50 so thats why crota feels like a strike
Looks like Vex was the true first enemy of Destiny. Makes sense that they will play a part in Final Shape and close out the saga.
I feel like such an idiot
I've seen that concept image with the tiger and what I'm assuming to be a guardian countless times, but now only just noticed the actual tiger in the image.
Also all the tiger stripe emblems and shaders in destiny 1 and 2 now make so much more sense I feel crazy for not seeing it back then.
Excellent job by Cross and his team. This research probably took forever to gather.