The Problem with the Ten Commandments - Bible & Archaeology - July 5, 2024
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- čas přidán 20. 07. 2024
- This week, Dr. Bob Cargill and Jordan Jones discuss the Ten Commandments. How many commandments are there really? Where do they actually come from? What role do they play today? We discuss all this and more!
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For more on the Ark of the Covenant:
• The Ark of the Covenan...
• What Happened to the A...
00:00 Welcome and Introduction
2:05 The Ten(?) Commandments?
5:07 Issues with the Common List
20:00 The ACTUAL Ten Commandments?
25:37 The Different Numberings
30:52 U.S. Christian Conflict
39:13 Commandments vs. Constitution
46:20 Respecting Other Law Codes and Traditions
48:47 Issues with the Law
50:50 Wrap Up
I want them to put up the "Don't boil a goat in its mother's milk" set.
Well struck!
It's funny how some Christians are obsessed with the ten commandments when in the New Testament it is repeatedly said that Christians have only one commandment and that is love.
Boys, I am so glad that you are talking about the Ten Commandments at this time, because I am opposed to the Louisiana and Oklahoma cases.
Agreed, Commandments of the Jungle much more preferable.
Nothing turns people atheist more quickly than studying the bible. Once kids start looking up questions on CZcams about the ten commandments, the end is in sight. ;)
Only if you are brought up a fundie. Both fundies and atheists are dumb enough to think the bible is only literally
I agree completely that's how I became an atheist
I was willing to die from my fundamentalist Christianity for 40 years but I never really went to church and didn't really know what was in the Bible
Then after I moved to Oklahoma because it was more Christian and more conservative I wanted to get my kid in church before she became a teenager and we went to a free will Baptist Church for three years religiously (and they read all of the Bible they don't cherry pick) and I didn't realize 90% of that stuff was in there... and it led to lots of questions so I questioned my pastor and two other pastors in town and they couldn't give me sufficient answers which led me to a three year and well over 2000 hours of deep study of nothing but scholars from fundamentalist scholars to secular scholars
And now there is no going back I know it's in the Bible , so I am always recommending people read all of their Bible
@@CommonSense_Skeptic you may no longer be a Christian but you are still a fundamentalist
I'm a living example of that. Time in the ministry, two degrees in biblical studies - the more I studied, the more the fatal problems piled up until I reached a breaking point. That was 34 years ago, and I've never looked back. Happy and free from Iron Age religion.
@@tombrower6544 where did you study? Was it a fundamentalist institution?
The First Amendment prevents the government from establishing, a religion.
Which is what the First Commandment would do.
I have another problem with "do not murder" and "do not steal". Murder and theft only have meaning within the laws and traditions of a specific community. Saying those two commandments without the context of the laws and traditions of your community is the same as saying "Do not do bad things that are bad". The typical penal code of a country has a whole chapter about what, exactly, murder is, and what are the nuances that make the difference between justified killing, killing without malice, "plain" killing, or premeditated and malevolent killing. The typical penal code is an actual ethical and moral document. The Ten Commandments are little more than nothing.
I'm glad you brought up your penal code example because that is a perfect comparison. If you were to look up the laws where you are for the use of force to figure out what you can get away with if someone breaks into your house and go by just what you read in what lawyers call the black letter law, without the necessary education to know the legal definition of certain words and without knowing case law on the subject, you're likely going to end up in prison.
That's why the Oral Torah exists. The sages and Rabbis throughout the centuries knew that you can't possibly make sense of the Written Torah by itself without some way to sort out things that are unclear or contradictory.
The notion that one can read and understand the Bible by itself, without any outside guidance, is a largely modern and completely mistaken protestant Christian one.
The human laws came from the Bible. Took christians hundreds of years to teach that commandment Alon. It didn't work and doesn't work in a "survival of the fittest " world but it became popular.
No other gods before me.
dictators, politicians, idols.......go against God to play one themselves
@@us3rG No, no, no, no. The Egyptians have law codes since around 3000 B.C.E. This is a full 1800 years before the Bible. King Hammurabi wrote his law code in stone some 600 years before the Bible. And different types of punishment for the individuals that hurt their group might have existed since before the Homo Sapiens appeared.
You are about 100 years obsolete in your knowledge of evolution. Survival of the fittest individuals in a group is only a tiny bit of evolution. Survival of the fittest GROUPS is the real motor behind evolution. For example, the fittest individuals of every group of gregarious animals is in charge of protecting the group, and this means that the fittest individuals have less chance of surviving than the weak individuals that are permanently being protected. If you see a stampede of bison, for example, the weak females and calves are at the center, while the strong males are fighting off the predators at the edges of the pack. Also, we have evidence of old and disabled humans from 200,000 years ago or so who lived long enough to have their bones completely damaged. This can only happen if the weak are cared enough to survive while the strong do the dangerous jobs.
@@us3rG how can you declare that human law came from the Bible. Didn't the Egyptians have a law against murder before Moses received the ten commandments. Isn't Moses' violation of that law one of the reasons that he fled Egypt?
@@davispatricks5453 Egyptian laws, that wasn't universal. Also even in Egypt it didn't apply to everyone
The prohibition against seething the kid in its mother's milk has nothing to do with animal cruelty. This was a sacrificial practice done by follilowers of Dionysos. It is the prohibition of a foreign sacrifice.
And that is where the names of demons and devils come from, other people's gods. Yaweh was part of a greater pantheon which included El. But yeah. Seems to be a recurring theme to demonize others and what they do as a core feature of a religion.
You could argue that it’s both. We single out this to show the cruelty of the Dionysian cult.
@@samb55I have a great book on the cult of dionysus. A completely whacky crazy 'religion'. But very popular.
I think they wanted to prevent the cult of dionysus from infecting the jewish faith.
You are CORRECT. I have a book on that religion.
Yeah it cant be about animal cruelty since the Bible is full of that
As someone who grew up with the Jewish Bible (Tanach) in Hebrew, I have found it puzzling for a long while that the traditional Jewish enumeration of the Ten Commandments (both the Exodus and Deuteronomy versions) actually conflicts with the grouping in the Masoretic text: the text (as indicated by the "white space" prescribed for writing Torah scrolls) groups "I am the Lord..."/"Thou shalt not have..."/etc. into one paragraph; the next seven are each a single paragraph; the last two ("Thou shalt not covet"s) are also two separate paragraphs.
Remember. The confusion is intentional and that is the point. If people can be stupified enough eventually they will just give up and surrender.
The original version had no spaces or punctuation
Fantastic presentation Jordan and Dr Bob. Very clear and informed. Great stuff.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I’m glad I found this channel. New subscriber. Thank you for the great video.
Welcome and thanks!
Does this sound like the god of all mankind? "God also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers-the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob-has sent me to you." No, it's the god of 3 specific people. Why then do Jews, Christians and Muslims call the god of those 3 people "God", like he's the general deity of everyone? Besides that, if he could write in stone then why did he ever use humans to communicate and thereby make it easy for people to say "that's just humans making stuff up"? If people were to see the words written in stone, like a hot finger had melted letters into it, they probably would have a harder time dismissing it as bogus. And what happened to the stone, couldn't the "Lord" protect it? Since it doesn't exist, people can also simply dismiss the whole story as bogus. As things stand, nobody has the slightest reason to believe anything other than the whole Torah being a made up fairy tale. The god of 3 people failed miserably to establish credibly that it exists.
What? Can you be even more ignorant?
God of the Bible refers to himself as "I AM", which means eternal source of all reality. Do you really consider yourself smart by quoting Bible verse out of context to build a strawman argument?
Your objections are at level of a 5 year old.
Since we are talking about Christianity, not Judaism how about looking at the New Testament? 1) Do not worship any other gods (1 Corinthians 8:6; 1 Timothy 2:5)
2) Do not make idols (1 John 5:21)
3) Do not misuse the name of the LORD (1 Timothy 6:1)
4) Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. (There are many references to the Sabbath day in the New Testament, including the assumption that Jews under the law in the time of Christ would be observing the Sabbath. But there is no direct or indirect command for believers in the church age to observe the Sabbath as a day of rest or of worship. In fact, Colossians 2:16 releases the believer from the Sabbath rule. Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath, has become for us our Sabbath rest, according to Hebrews 4:1-11.)
5) Honor your father and your mother (Ephesians 6:1-2)
6) Do not murder (Romans 13:9; 1 Peter 4:15)
7) Do not commit adultery (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)
8) Do not steal (Ephesians 4:28)
9) Do not give false testimony (Revelation 21:8)
10) Do not covet (Colossians 3:5)
Yeah, they did cover "keeping the sabbath holy". They asked about whether buzzing out of church, skipping the social to start fighting over a table at "Applebees" or getting home right quick to see the game were really what was intended?
Good work gentlemen!
The god breaks four of his own commandments but sends you to his eternal hell if you do, sounds like an abusive god that one, he'll send you to his hell if you sideways glance at another god in his first four, jealous nasty punitive god.
First time listening to this channel, such awesome stuff, im subscribing!
Imma grab a tub of buttered popcorn sit back and watch the movie...cuz shits gonna get CRAZY
This is my first visit to the channel. Thank you for your work, I'll be subscribed
Glad you enjoyed it!
@@xkv8rAre u, have u already, will u do a video on *(UR PLANS?) a question for everyone.
America is declining, Trump is the only candidate who can make America great again, but first he has to save America, *(WW3 NUCLEAR WAR DESTRUCTION OF AMERICA 🇺🇸) is a Reality now,
*(What exactly is UR PLAN)?
a question for ur audience, which will be different for each person answering the question.
Will u do a Live Stream on this, most everyone is afraid of this topic and is terrified to touch it? Thx
Great video!
Thanks!
The point about how the first amendment exists because of religious people is something I wish more people understood. Of course I didn’t realize that even this law would reveal the cracks in Christian nationalism. I always say it’s just as flawed as white nationalism. Just like there will always be someone who isn’t white enough in a white nationalist society, there will always be somebody who is not Christian enough in a Christian nationalist society. You will HAVE to follow Christianity the way the most powerful denomination tells you to. Jehovahs witnesses, Catholics, and Mormons will face persecution under this system.
I am very impressed that you mentioned Ur- Nammu. Not very many people have heard of him. And even in proper context.
Nice video. I appreciate it.
My group does a 'question of the day' every week. Last Saturday we asked.
Should the ten commandments be displayed in public schools.
Yes= 22
No= 66
Thanks so much!
Do you minister, or do you need to be ministered to?
There are 10 main subjects that are described in the commandments. The first 4 relate to God himself, and the last 6 relate to our neighbors who are made in God's image.
@@henryschmit3340 Only the man is made in the image of God, though most men have besmirched that image
@@ralphowen3367 For sure, and to their detriment.
The Dutch Christian belt is close to the city I live. And I was a teacher economics on a Protestant high school, that was the closest to this places. Half of the class were of this denomination. One day I cursed, and those students immediately went to the head to complain 😂.
Didn’t stay long there because I got a position on a gymnasium, the high school for the intelligent children in the Netherlands. Never needed to curse there.
(It’s not that the students were dumb on the other school, but Gods children weren’t used to think for themselves, they are dead weight)
In those Christian villages they keep the sabbath. Every thing closes on Sunday, they don’t play soccer, and have their own Saturday soccer competition, and it’s said that the best amateur soccer clubs play in this competition.
I vaguely remember one of their amateur clubs beating a team of professional players.
How many notes are in the music?
Great Great Great Show; thanks!
Thanks for listening!
Makes sense to me. Probably won’t to those fundamentalists Christians and many regular Christians.
keeping them ?
8:02 best footrest EVER
Wives were considered 'property', yes, but were valued similarly to children and land, not beasts of burden or other possessions
How do you know? Oh wait. You don't. I hope you get famous someday when reality matches up to your fantasies.
So, not like the slaves that are moral to have?
Woohoo! I'm worth as much as your house.
Weird af
Who was the first law giver 🤔
So many to choose from!!!
Approx 2500 BCE Laws of Ma'at
Approx 1754 BCE Hammurabi's Code
1353 - 1313 BCE (in bible years) Mosaic Laws (but more likely around 400s BCE)
THANK YOU FOR THE EXCELLENT, INFORMED, OBJECTIVE AND THINKING SCHOLAR!!!
Any time!
"El"Louisiana purchase? Tiger (2)Lions dogs & Bel drag on, cereal y DOT
The auditory thing , Jesus said yee who is without sin cast the first stone
@@kenveum6456 Christians are righteous just as Jesus is--I Jn. 5:7.
He didnt say that, read the foodnote of that story
I would love to hear these chaps opinions of the Seven Tenets of the Satanic Temple?
How dare you bring logic into the conversation. These lawmakers will have none of that thank you very much. Good day to you.😂
You can not talk about religion until you about KEMET.
Doctor of what?
I wonder, how will high school students read about the sex in the bible in class?
The commotion here on the proper counting of the ten commandments or what includes the canon; within christianity there is these days hardly a real debate at all. Catholics accepted more books (since late middle ages), but in a lot of modern protestant bibles these books are included as 'deuterocanonical'. Everyone is free to read other books like Enoch. A narrow fundamentalism seems more the problem here.
The urge to impose that "narrow fundamentalism" onto others is the greater problem.
Read that outside a public school or any government institution
These are not the original Commandments
Going to church and going to Applebee's is PRECISELY what the Sabbath was commanded for. It was intended to be a day off from WORK. All recreational activities is doing just that.
No, because you let someone else work when you go to Applebees. It’s explicitly stated that you should take care nobody works
So cheeseburgers aren't kosher?
Laa ilaaha illallaah
Please continue to remind people that thus is Hebrew tribal stuff about their tribal god.
Heh, Jordan said "It's not written in stone" which are THE ten commandments. Indeed they are not nor never were.
Even if the people who are not Christian lived by the 10 Commandments, the world would be a better place.
No, if we followed the ten loads of shite we wouldnt have art, sculptures, women rights and children rights
@@bluewater9795 The Gentiles which have not the law often do by nature ( not by keeping the ten commands) what is contained in the law-- that is, the spirit of it-- Read Rom. 2.
And what 10 commandments are you talking about. A large part of the video was that there are no “10 commandments”. I wonder if you watched the video, or just start spreading your uninformed opinion.
Christianity however is not based on the 'ten commandments'. Gathering on sunday f.i. is not derived from the sabbath commandment. But some morals and principles found in these are repeated in the NT. What all those 'modern' groups and bible cults teach is not so relevant.
Saturday's and Sundays are mostly rest days
@@us3rG What decade are you fantasizing you're in?
@@nsbd90now decade where people know mostly
@@us3rG When I was a child in the 1960s some stores would be closed on Sundays. But those days are long, long gone. Ridiculous to say weekends are "rest days" for any working person in 2024.
@@nsbd90now How right you are. And it would be great if the Louisiana legislature was spending time passing bills that improve the material condition of the working class, instead of this silly virtue signaling bull which will not actually improve the quality of teaching and learning in public schools.
Oklahoma wants to have the White Jesus Old Testament version of the Bible. ;)
If you are concerned with skin you never knew Jesus
@@us3rGsuper presumptuous of you to assert that someone does not know Jesus because they mention skin color in a comment.
How does @markthompson180 statement tell you that they do not spend time with and commune regularly with Jesus. You cannot, from their statement tell whether or not this person believes that Jesus is Lord or tell if they believe that Jesus was risen from the dead.
If they have done this then they have been accepted by Christ and you have the audacity to declare yourself the arbiter of whether or not someone has been received by Christ. Wow. Such hubris and pride.
@@us3rG What's more, your attempt to make a person's political viewpoint or social commentary a measure of said person's spiritual status is the very reason why it is unwise to marry politics to religion.
@@davispatricks5453 nobody needs to know what Jesus looked like, nobody cares what any of them look like. Learn from what written and understand it, flesh means nothing.
All these paints and statues are not even Biblical infact they are against the Bible. Orthodox does best with icons, they tell everything you need to know and little about physical bs. They also tend to be regional made by the people for the people, not international.
In the commandments it states to have no image of God, yet the Catholics did and years letter it's reduced the true "image" of God , leading many away from "The man upstairs" They all have negative effect cause people like you focus on the wrong things. Your practically worshipping paintings.
@@davispatricks5453 nobody cares what Jesus look like, nobody cares what any of them look like. Study what is written and understand it.
Paintings and sculptures are not even Biblical, they go against the commandments
The 'Ten Commandments', attributed to the myth of 'Moses', were
plagiarized from the Egyptian Pyramid Texts, also known as the
Book of the Dead, which pre-date the 'Moses' myth by 2,500 years.
The Book of the Dead (actually called the Book of Coming Forth By Day, by the way) was a collection of spells/rituals for ensuring a successful journey into the Egyptian afterlife. There is no definitive text of the Book of Coming Forth By Day, because the different social classes of the individual being buried meant that they would have a different afterlife, which logically meant that they required different spells/rituals for a successful journey into the afterlife.
I can’t say if a specific part of the Hebrew Ten Words was part of a particular Book of Coming Forth By Day, because I haven’t read every version of every text. Regardless, it would be irrelevant if they did, as everything in the Ten Words is about living your life on Earth (remember, the Hebrew Bible doesn’t have an afterlife that is at all comparable with the Egyptian afterlife; the dead all go to Sheol & that’s it for the Hebrews) and everything in the Book of Coming Forth By Day is about living a successful afterlife and has nothing to do with one’s mortal life on Earth.
@@DneilB007 The 'Ten Commandments', attributed to the myth of 'Moses' were
plagiarized from the Egyptian Pyramid Texts, also known as the Book of the Dead,
which pre-date the 'Moses' myth by 2,500 years.
I've said it many times before, nothing pushed me further away from Christianity than attending Theological Seminary. No hard feelings or disrespect towards anyone else's beliefs... But the more I studied and compared, the less I could blindly follow. Great channel!
Our Heavenly Father called fallen angels false gods in his commandments and there is a pads with wings section of his discipline implemented between all relationships and a reminder that we are not suppose to entwine with angels of angelic birds including these ones 👽🛸🍎 of the pads without wings section and the nutty cupids games between sex trafficking.
The faultiness of the ten commandments is due to the fact that though they are holy, just, and good, they are not of faith--Rom. 7 and Gal. 3:12.
So you would be on the side of not putting them up in every school, right?
@@boogiesnookie7111 I am not sure what I would do. But people need to know that the Mosaic Law was not for the non- Jew, but for the Jew. Young are under the law of sin and death, but that consists of the Law of Moses and the law of nature. The latter is for the Gentiles. The problem is that those wanting the Decalogue displayed to the youth, likely do not understand fully what they are doing. Many Christians believe the law is still in force for them, which is a lie. Believers are under the law of Christ, and not O.T. law.
@@ralphowen3367 im not gonna read any of that and idgas about it, I just want religious shiet out of public schools
@@floptaxie68 Desperate situations (a complete abandonment of God and His ways In the school system) require desperate solutions ( the inclusion of God and His laws in the schools).
@@ralphowen3367 no, illegal
Advertising does not involve the concept of coveting as used in the language of Exodus.
Yes it does. It is precisely designed to elicit covetous feelings and desires in people. And it works. Consumers want that new "must have" item.
Do you think pastors care about what the Bible meant in the time it was written? No, they read a book written by Jews in an unknown date, compiled by Catholics, around the 4th century, translated to Shakesperean English and apply that to a secular country founded in the 18th century with a 20th century point of view
The modern push for violation of the first amendment specifies the use of the King James version.
There’s way more than two reasons for keeping the sabbath.
God rested on Sabbath to set an example, not because God is tired.
@@us3rG that’s one reason
@@wafan13 we become slaves to that we spend all our time on, so we need a break, a day off.
God isn't a slave to his creation, man shouldn't be either
@@us3rG yeah that’s another reason
I do what I fcking want to do with my weekend
Illustration ~¢
No covetting? Guess colonialism is not covetting
Commandment 12....'bye bye' to that granite countertop in the kosha kitchen.
as far as the coveting goes the old testament God covets gold and silver and all kinds of fine things he's much more materialistic than most people today he expects some demands overlaid gold on things etc, and he even says all of the gold is mine and all of the silver is mine.
(which shows you how made up it all is anyways)
Which set? I'm no bible expert but i know there 3 different sets.
Obviously the biggest problems of the 10 commandments is that the non god specific ones had already been established for thousands of years before god handed them down. Feel free to pick one and have a slave perpetrate it on his master 2,000 years before the god was invented.
Good luck with QAnon addicts.
Goodness tomato tamato , humans always want to be their own gods, especially in the west , contininuesly criticizing the TORAH, congratulations soon Sharia will be enforced. Study the WORD in a community of followers of YESHUA HAMACHIACH which will bring you great Shalom. Shabbat is a day of relationship with the LORD.
You're both missing the point. When people refer to The Ten Commandments, what they are referring to are what's on the tablets that Charlton Heston brought down from Mt. Sinai ... the ones you can buy from Amazon to hang in the public schools. A scholarly refutation of those laws, and their origin and number, is the last thing those state legislatures care about. It has nothing to do with reality; it's about power to foist your political will on the entire populace. You pass laws in the name of God that everyone has to obey. You can do this because it is you whom God has ordained to rule over others. Again, it's all about power. You guys are wasting your time here; you're playing football on a basketball court.
I agree with your assessment on the motives of some in the Oklahoma legislature. However it is never a waste of time for Christians and non-christians to understand what Christians believe and why they believe it. these two gentlemen are helping educate Christians and non-christians about this important part of this belief system.
For some Christians who listen to this conversation, they may realize that they have not looked deeply at what they say they believe. It might give them pause about supporting legislation that tries to impose this on others.
We have the best arguments, but the nuts have the Supreme Court.
Fyi; The Tanakh aka "old testament" is nonfiction and it is not a "religion," the talmud, "new testament" and quran however are all fiction, aka man made "religions," because believe it or not, THE CREATOR does not condone Any man made "religions" at All. And believe it or not, the ten commandments and all the laws, precepts and statutes of the Torah were ONLY meant for the Hebrew people to follow, and Hebrews are not Eastern Europeans practicing a "religion."
Username does not check out.
@@nsbd90now 🙄
Mishlei 3:35
The people of the Bible were a bunch a weirdos
@@floptaxie68 🙄
The wise shall inherit glory: *but shame shall be the promotion of fools.* ~ Mishlei 3:35
@@TheZenGarden_ mish bolas
Wow! The universal rules of law are not applied in the united states!!!
Where did you get your law degree?
55 minutes of strawman after strawman after strawman.
First of all, why do you assume schools will teach 1% of the Bible that's not in every Biblie? They will just teach more important parts, which are in every single Bible version. No problem here.
Second of all, it doesn't matter which "counting" of 10 commandments will be chosen, becasue they're all the same in essence. Theists will be glad with any version. No problem here.
And thirdly, Bible and 10 Commandments are not replacement for constitution. They're just there to remind kids about moral code, so it doesn't matter if some of the commandents are not followed. It will not be forced by law lol. No problem here.
But then again, why would two atheists understand that since you presented greed as something good, because it runs capitalism lol 🤣 Why only your ideology has to be present in schools? Like that gender nonsense etc. etc
I think you just missed the whole point of 10 Commandments and the Bible.
Doesn't know what a strawman is. But you display an excellent example of a person who freely embraces willful ignorance.
@@nsbd90now Ignorance is what you see in a mirror.
@@este4955 The mirror is right next to my various diplomas: BA, MA, Ph.D. and late-in-life Assoc. of Science when I redid all basic math, sciences and then some. How 'bout you? Are you out of high school yet?
@@nsbd90now Diplomas in what? Gender studies? Hahahaha🤣
Not only ignorant, but also egoistic. it's really telling 😂
Atheism is not an ideology. it is a lack of belief in gods.
These two do not mention gender fluidness as a part of their personal ideologies.
They did not describe greed as good rather they pointed out the contradiction of opposing covetousness in the ten commandments while supporting an economic system driven by greed and covetousness.
Going forward, please try to make your comments without bearing false witness. Thanks.
The Catholic version separates coveting the wife from coveting other property