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How To Make a Screw-Rim Bell On a French Horn
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- čas přidán 4. 02. 2021
- This Is a how-to video about doing a screw rim conversion on a French horn. This should only be tried by experienced technicians, but anyone can enjoy watching how it is done.
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My aunt was a contemporary and good friend of Ethel Merker and was also a professional horn player. She taught me and when the whole detachable bell business started up she very sternly informed me that I could buy a detachable bell model if I so choose, but if I ever dared to convert any horn she had any connection to that she'd murder me and if I did it after she'd passed, she'd haunt me to my final days.
There's nothing glamorous about the procedures involved in instrument repair or modification, and I'm glad you show it how it is. The end results are great, as one can expect, but it's no sunshine and rainbows as you take to a French horn with fire and a saw.
Always wanted to see a conversion! Thank you!
I would recommended a small air compressor and adjustable nozzle on a gooseneck to keep the parts of the rim that you don't want to heat-up cool. Laser cutters use small compressors to keep the workpiece from burning eliminating any unintended burnishing. This technique could be used to prevent the locking solder joints from coming loose. Great work!
Thank you, excellent and helpful video. I had a detachable bell conversion done on my Paxman 20M. As an amateur player I did not notice any significant change in sound. I notice that many professionals play a horn with detachable bell. One advantage is that it is possible to have two or more bell flares to choose from.
Wow very impressive display of craftsmanship. I’d have liked to have seen a little 10 second playtest of the horn before and after.
Here is a link to a video where I play the horn. After I am done repairing the horn, the owner is going to make a video of it being played.
czcams.com/video/1IXWSEstx5w/video.html
Brilliant video Art. Thanks for sharing
Nice job Art.
I enjoy your channel. Love the craftsmanship you put into your work.
What do I tell you, master, tremendous work
It change sound, make it deeper, less bright, adds mass to sound but You can play with a lot of core
As a trombone player, I prefer that haha!
@@montagne8820 I am trombone player! My Shires is screw bell trb
Excellent video!! And amazing work!!
Thank you for sharing! I enjoy your videos and your expertise workmanship !
It's simply amazing!!! Thanks a lot!!!
Me encantó ver el trabajo. Felicidades.
Great content!
Great job on this!
Very nice work and presentation
Nice job.
It's such a shame that musicians have to go through this trouble in order to keep their instruments safe on an airplane. Thanks for showing this procedure.
If you have a large instrument like a cello, you don't have to purchase an entire airplane ticket for it. Yes, you will have to pay for an extra seat but it will not cost as much as your ticket (price will be a small percentage of the base fare plus a few taxes only). Likewise, an obese passenger can also pay for an extra seat for comfort. Since this is an additional service, you probably won't have the option to book this "extra seat" when you book your ticket online but you should be able to get it done through their customer service. Hope this helps !!
If you have a large instrument like a cello, you don't have to purchase an entire airplane ticket for it. Yes, you will have to pay for an extra seat but it will not cost as much as your ticket (price will be a small percentage of the base fare plus a few taxes only). Likewise, an obese passenger can also pay for an extra seat for comfort. Since this is an additional service, you probably won't have the option to book this "extra seat" when you book your ticket online but you should be able to get it done through their customer service. Hope this helps any travelling musicians !!!
Thank you. I have never flown with a large instrument, so I have only heard from others. Thank you for clearing this up.
Art
Back when I played horn, another player had this conversion done. It came out well, with the usual brace cutdown needing to be done, but the gap between the 2 halves INSIDE the bell drove him nuts. He ended up trading it off for a new horn with the screwbell feature from the factory.
I have had five or six of my horns modified in this way. It does subtly change the sound, I think it may take a small bit of edge away in loud playing, which in my case, is a very good thing. I never noticed any change at all in any dynamic less than forte. The change in sound is much less than de-lacquering the instrument, or even trying a quite different mouthpiece.
I agree. It warms it up some in my opinion. I do this to Elkhart 8Ds a lot, and in my opinion, doing a bell conversion along with stripping the lacquer gives them a much warmer, velvety sound than they had before. I prefer my horns with a screw bell rather than not.
Had my Yamaha 668N converted. I had to relearn how to play it, but it's now a better horn.
Fascinating! Can you do trombones too?
Yes Greg I've seen it for trombones as well!
Yes, almost all screw-bell trombones are basses. I've also seen this done to trumpets and tubas.
@@Maddenhawk I've never seen a screw-bell trombone on trumpet, that sounds pretty interesting. Screw-bell tubas are more common when it comes to convertibles or 6/4 tubas, but since the body of the instrument is so massive in the first place I really don't see a benefit. (coming from a tuba player)
Any thoughts on wrapping the pipes with something to lessen the impact of the heat when un/re soldering? I would imagine it would minimize heat discoloration.
Great videos! Thank you for making them!!
Did you not make some etch marks between the second ring and the surface of the contact surface to promote solder grip?
What is the Allied parts number to get the screw ring assembly?
Do you have a preferred supplier for screw bell rings? Or are there any affordable options in the mysterious Allied catalog?
That is a ring made by Gebr. Alexander, a shop in germany. Yamaha makes a ring, and Engelbert Schmid as well
Are there cases for instruments modified like this?
Absolutely yes. Most are made by a company called Marcus Bonna
Hi Art - where can you buy the component for doing the conversion?
Pope Horns has a ring for screwbell conversion made by Alexander a German company. It is on Pope's website and sells for about $100
Where does one find a bell ring like that to have it done? I would like to have that done to my trombone. Any info is appreciated. Thanks
I do not know where to find one for a trombone. Blessing is the only manufacturer who ever made a screw rim trombone but that was many years ago. Sorry I can’t help more.
how much is this modification (dollar or euro), does anyone know?, thanks
Have you done this with a tuba?
No, I have never tried that.
How much does to cost to get a bell conversation like this
The part is about $150 and the labor is around $200.
@@TheBrassandWoodwindShop that's a much better deal than what I've been quoted so for all I've been told is it's 500$ for any instrument.
Solder: Less is more, heat the part ahead of where you want the solder to flow, heat leads the solder
Why wouldn't you just cut the bell at the required spot and fit the conversion directly on to the two cut sections?
The complete bell has more structural integrity and is less prone to deform when the solder and the ring cool.
A thin-walled tube like that is very hard to cut without damage. The sawblade can hang up on the metal and pull it out of shape instead of cutting. The ring reinforces the thin brass wall of the bell and prevents this.
I imagine going through this procedure would only slightly decrease the resonance of the horn, but also make the overall tone slightly more dark. You're adding more mass to the horn, but there's also going to be little pockets of air where the threading is. The vibrations aren't going to travel throughout the bell as efficiently because of this. Obviously this is not very impactful at all; the effects are very, very small, and I think that the benefits outweigh the losses here.
Strange question but has anyone seen a screw bell on trumpet?
Once, I saw a Pilzak (I am not sure that is the correct spelling) trumpet with a tunable bell rim which could be removed. Not exactly a screw rim, but similar.
czcams.com/video/WXuokefy8Do/video.html
I have a Getzen Custom from the 80's that the entire bell comes off from the factory. Has two support braces/joints and a bell joint, that you can swap bells with other types. I remember seeing them back in the early 90's at Jazz conventions wishing had one (as a kid) now as adult I do. BUT with all my searching can't find other bells for it. The screw off point though is not at top of the bell but closer to the valves. Though older I love it's tone compared to my Getzen (DEG) Custom 2000. On French Horn side, my mom's horn is an Finke which came with a screw on bell from the factory. It has amazing clear tone and power, with the classic sound you look for. It's bell though is much thinner than the one in this video and you could most likely punch your finger through the bell so I image there Finke designed it that way for easier transport + sound.
@@jasont659 Schilke was making detachable bells in the '70s, These instruments were used to change the pitch of the individual trumpets, D to E-flat, and F to G. As I recall, they were popular with the pros because they played beautifully. The bell attached to a tunable slide at the bottom outlet of the valve body, and a set screw system fixed the middle of the bell flare to the top of the valves. It didn't really save much space, and both the D/E-flat and F/G horns were pretty small to start with. Now, it looks like Schilke has gone to a four valve system with a fixed bell.
@@gregoryronnback2756 Fascinating Did not know Schilke did also. I do wonder if the detachable bell changes some of the tone quality it does. If you look 70's-80's with some of the greats during that period, they used such systems.