In my most recent playthrough Halsin actually got kicked out of his tent and I just had to find him chilling on the ground somewhere in camp, which was extra funny while in the Shadow-cursed lands because despite Halsin being kicked out of his tent, Thaniel was still at the tent, so it looked like Minty took the kid in the divorce lmao
I want to say something about Minthara's upbringing: 1. She genuinely does not like her mother. She respects her power and strength to maintain her status as the family matron, but she has no real positive emotions towards her other than that. She wants to kill her mother solely for the status it would give her as well as a form of revenge for her mother attacking her. Most Drow do not see their parents as protectors/guardians, they actually rarely see them in life and are raised by slaves or older siblings (siblings that will try to kill them as well to maintain their own status in the family). 2. Her mother didn't really try to kill her as a coming of age practice, it was to test if Minthara was good enough to live and carry on the house name. If she survives, she proved herself and is allowed to live; if she fails fending off her mother's attack, she'd be seen as worthless and killed off to prevent "weak blood" from tainting the family line. 3. When you get her in the good route, she tells you how envious she is of Karlach for how happy and positive she is despite the hell she's been through. So you can learn from that how she genuinely wants to be happy, but has no idea on how to do that without falling back on what she was taught: obtain power and have others submit to you. Drow culture in Lolth-based cities is very darwinian and harsh. It's kill or be killed, the strongest survives, the powerful thrive, and the weak die. To Minthara, a woman who was born and raised in a powerful noble Lolth-sworn house (one of if not THE most powerful house in Menzoberranzan), this was perfectly normal for her to be abused and nearly killed on a daily basis. She looks back to those memories with no real emotion other than "I was happy, my path in life was set out and I had luxuries most did not." No love, no warm fuzzy feelings, just old anger and a neutral perspective of her upbringing. It's why she speaks so rationally when discussing her life, it's a trauma response involving distancing herself from the feelings she had back then.
Minthara: Do you have elder siblings, wizard? Gale: You're about to say something awful, aren't you? Minthara: In Menzoberranzan, after a house has two sons, every subsequent male-born child is slaughtered at birth, as it is useless, even for breeding. Minthara: You have the aura of a third child about you. ... Yep, I love that sense of humour.
Before my Honor Mode playthrough, I always thought the method for recruiting Minthara without destroying the grove was really weird and dumb. Like, I specifically decided to cave Minthara's skull in nonlethally... and just her... why, exactly? Because of metagame knowledge? Then I played Honor Mode as a pacifist Durge. Never turned off nonlethal attacks except against someone actively trying to bring harm to someone else (like Gortash, Orin, or Ethel). That meant I didn't kill Dror Razglin. I didn't give it much thought until I reach the *Anti-Hag support group* in Act 3, where Kled the random hobgoblin has *Dror Razglin's Legendary Action*. So, somehow, Dror survived the battle like Minthara did, except he made a deal with a hag to deafen the voice of the Absolute, and then joined Mayrina under the new name of Kled. It's probably a bug, but it was a really fun discovery.
@@TTRPGSarvis I was going off of the way Minthara pronounces it in game. I haven’t listened to the books,only read them,so I was unaware this discrepancy existed.
@@Wilted.lycorisYeah. Minthara's pronunciation surprised me because I've been hearing "Bay-En-Ree" for like, a decade since I started listening to the audiobooks. I'm gonna say both are valid.
Ouch. This one actually hurts. I'm not going to be aggressive or sarcastic like another commenter was when they brought it up, but being that Minthara is my favorite character in BG3, me anticipating your breakdown on her was the entire reason I subscribed to you. And, ah... well... the video itself, or at least the first five minutes of it, ended up being why I unsubscribed. Not wanting to start a fight or anything, still gave the video a Like because I really support this kind of content, and I like you a lot as a content creator and want to see your channel grow. It's just there's a lot in that first five minutes that I find reductive at best and alienating at worst. I don't think it's coming from a malicious place or anything, you're obviously very intelligent and sweet, and clearly passionate about the material. I probably don't need to tell you that I wasn't looking over your shoulder while you were doing research, but putting it optimistically, respectfully, and gently, I think that there maybe could have been a little more research done on Forgotten Realms Drow history before certain opinions and viewpoints solidified the way they did. Not even necessarily the one at 4:30-ish, but like the point you make at 4:13 - a point I'm completely on board with and 100% agree with you on: "evil because evil" is definitely lazy and boring, but my issue is that there are a myriad of reasons Drow culture got to the point it did, both for reasons that aren't their fault and reasons there are. The comment left me scratching my head a little; you can *absolutely* have the opinion that it's boring, that's all a matter of taste, it's just when you described what you would have much preferred instead of "evil because evil", you described your preference leaning toward what they kind of already were - which can still be boring to you, make no mistake, but the "evil because evil" viewpoint is, in my opinion, an oversimplified one compared to what their history and background shows. But that isn't even to mention the comparison to how men make the rules in real life similarly to how Drow Matrons make the rules in the Underdark (and I honestly think that phrasing has less to do with actual belief and more to do with just the off-the-cuff style of the videos), or the comment that, at least to me, came across as very passive aggressive about how certain people in D&D refuse to believe that reality bleeds into fiction - which I believe is likely very true of course, but in this context, I felt it came across kind of a reinforcement against people who might disagree with your take on how Drow culture parallels reality. I don't know. It made me pause the video a few times until I clicked off of it, went to work, and came back home. Then I tried to re-watch it, went through the same feelings, and really just decided that this isn't for me like I thought it was. Which is fine. Obviously, this video received very well, and the comments were (mostly) positive and polite. I hope if you read this comment, you'll see it as such. I'm just going to be dropping off the comment and moving on, so no need to reply or anything like that. I do sincerely wish you a wonderful day, and here's to you cracking 10k subs by the end of the year. :)
As someone who typically plays Chaotic Good characters, I can't help but find the Lawful Evil Paladin to be my favorite character in the entire game. Not only for supporting womens' wrongs, but also because I just feel like her backstory makes the most sense for an adventurer, alongside Wyll and Karlach
It's true that these three have backstories that are pretty legit for a regular DND character, though I'd say that the "my character is a Cleric of Shar that was sent on a mission and to keep it secret and protect the cult in case she gets arrested had her memories wiped. Go wild with her backstory if you want" also sounds like the type of shit I'd roll up to a party with
Drow are the way they are because of Lolth's influence. She's a Chaotic Evil goddess who wants her followers to backstab each other competing for her favor. They strongest will rise to the top, the weak will fall by the wayside. Too much lore to go into in a comment, but Drow society in general, Menzoberranzan in particular, & House Baenre most specifically, is wild. The first book (chronologically) in the Legend of Drizzt book series takes place in Menzoberranzan. You learn a lot about the place & its people. Highly recommended.
I've been looking forward to this video since I started watching your unpacking videos a month ago! Minthara being my first, and so far favorite romance (I know enough about the other romances to draw that conclusion) First off, absolutely fucked up that the game bugged out like that. But then, it wouldn't be a Minthara run without new and unique bugs (seriously there's literally been new Minthara bugs introduced with EVERY patch, and many of the hotfixes). But you are right that, outside her desire to take charge, the exact substance of her sex scene is less important than the emotions surrounding it; the fact she comes to you in that moment as herself, and stays to connect with you despite knowing that something has changed between her and the godthing in her head. I made the extremely uncommon decision to fully romance her in my very first playthrough-I originally planned to load the save and continue on after defending the grove, but after the battle I used Speak With Dead on her corpse, fresh off her romance scene and the promise of reuniting with her in act 2, and just felt this overwhelming sense of loss. I couldn't do it, I had to see where this would go. So I reworked my Paladin Tav's story so that she remained an oathbreaker for the rest of act 1, and most of act 2 (only restoring her oath once their romance started and her Oath of Glory has been re-contextualized into something akin to a heavily romanticized Oath of Conquest) That's just the power Minthara has-I literally rewrote my character mid-game to fit better with Minthara as her love interest, and the result was so much better than if I tried to plan an Evil Tav from the start to romance her. At the time, there was no knock out method; my choice was to raid the grove, use the silly sheepthara exploit, or kill her. Or use the Daughter of Lolth mod, which admittedly I don't know why I didn't at the time, but I'm glad I didn't, and I'm glad I chose to recruit her the intended way, because I think even at the time I suspected what I feel very strongly now-while it's nice that the knock out method has allowed more people to enjoy her character, I agree with Emma Gregory (Minthara's voice and performance actor) that this came at a cost of a simplification of her character. The decision to raid the grove is a deliberately heavy one, and I think there's an irreconcilable difference in the dynamic between Minthara and a player who actively participated in one of the Absolute's atrocities, and that between Minthara and a player who remained morally irreproachable throughout act 1. Raiding the grove leaves you with no moral high ground over Minthara, except for what you do going forward. That's how it worked for my Tav-she regretted it at the time, but as her bond with Minthara grew she found her confidence in her own Paladin ideals returning, and she sought to not fall into despair or seek atonement, but to carry on doing good despite her fall. As Fray the Dark Knight trainer from Final Fantasy 14 said, "Do not seek forgiveness, for it will not ease the burden. It weighs as it should." Speaking of Paladins, and you mentioned this, but I think it is very fitting that she doesn't have an arc where she has to figure out her values. Part of a Paladin's role is to be the ultimate embodiment of a set of values, and she's had hers figured out a long, long time ago. Where her journey lies is in building those connections with others, which is represented primarily through her relationship to the player. While it's true she expresses discomfort at the party and comments that the others probably don't like her, that doesn't mean she dislikes them, or doesn't understand them. By asking her what she thinks of the other companions, you find that she has lots of good things to say about every one of them, even those she is dismissive of at first. Take Karlach and Gale. She basically has nothing but praise and pity for Karlach, but is immediately critical of Gale. At first she doesn't see any point in getting to know Gale cause he's not going to live long enough to appreciate her affections. But she genuinely seems to like Karlach from minute one, despite her also having a short life-expectancy. The difference being the causes; Karlach was enslaved and given the infernal engine heart through no fault of her own, whereas Gale came to harbor the Netherese Orb through a self-admitted grab for power that backfired. She feels Gale brought it upon himself, Karlach did not. The only thing she did wrong was trust the wrong person, but Minthara doesn't see trust as a weakness. She also admires Karlach's optimism despite her shortened life span. To Minthara, mortality is a curse. If she could, she'd live forever, but she is troubled by the thought that someday she and everything she loves, even her beloved Menzoberranzan, will crumble to dust. Karlach doesn't have that hangup, and experiences the full joy of life in the moment. I think it's a quality Minthara wishes she could emulate, but any overt desire to do so has been dampened down over 200+ years of drow noble life. Despite her initial comments making it seem likely, I don't think she truly dislikes or hates Gale either. She will make biting jabs at him ("You have the aura of a third child.") but that's all they are, jabs. Knocks at his ego. The thing she thinks he has too much of. She doesn't mind his thirst for power so long as he doesn't shoot himself in the foot seeking it. She will simultaneously encourage Origin Gale in his most outrageous plans as she Stone Cold Stunners him for being smug about it. Anyway I could go on for so much more about Minthara, I really do love and adore her that much, but I'll stop here. Thank you if you've read this far.
I feel like drow have always been portrayed as victims of an evil society in Dungeons & Dragons. At least all the drow lore I've read. I don't think there's anything that considers them inherently evil besides prejudice that is incorrect in-universe.
Lmao I love that the game was so used to you going for Astarion that it just assumed you mis-clicked when you chose Minthara. Also, been waiting for this, this has been such a good series, is there anything else BG3 planned for you after this one?(dunno if this is the last episode of Unpacking but it feels like it could be)
I really enjoyed this. Good to see another of your BG3 videos. As a character, I like Minthara. I only ever recruited her on the good path. I really like your use of the cult analogy. It is her parallel with Shadowheart and Lae'zel, despite Minthara never really acknowledging it. One of the things I like most about her is that she never repents nor seeks redemption, nor does she have any wish to do so. She's flat out power hungry first and foremost and totally OK with it. She can develop real feelings for you, and even real appreciation if not friendship for the companions. But, in the end, as a drow, power and recognition are always first. Minthara is Neutral or Lawful Evil in her attitudes and comments. Atrocities are fine, if they have a clear and specific purpose. Enslaving refugees? She's fine with that. Eating them? If the situation is bad enough. Killing a few to make a point? Fine. But pointless slaughter at no personal or goal related gain? She can't abide that. While I agree that it's fun that Minthara is fully in support of every path to power you choose, I hated any companion being OK with joining Bhaal. You're joining a god whose plan is to kill them all and anyone they care about. Anyone sane should see the downside of that. I've hated the structure and logic of Drow society from the first time I read the Drzzt books. Even as a teen, it wasn't a society that could possibly have continued to survive as presented. Which is not to say that you can't have a society built on cruelty and conquest. But there has to be some level of belief in that society that following the rules will be rewarded. And that the rules are ultimately just. The only reason anyone does anything in Drow culture is the fear that hideous torture or death will come immediately rather than slightly later. But that's another and much longer video essay. 🙂 Looking forward to your next deep dive.
I'm so glad Larion added an easy way to get Minthara on a good playthrough because imo having Astarion being selfish chaotic evil and Minthara being ruthless lawful evil, like these two little devils on your shoulders, while you're just trying to save everyone best you can is peak party composition.
13:10 Also on that point in Moonrise towers the focus on the Emerald Grove is because their army along with the Harpers is the one that once defeated Ketheric Thorm, so he needed them weakened to carry out The Absolute plan, there's a book in Moonrise Towers going up stairs after talking to Z'rell that explains this. It's more or less where Alfira and the children spawn post-battle.
Just wanna say your little giggle is adorable in the best way possible. Also glad I found your channel these character deep dives have all been amazing!
Also about Minthara's act 1 romance : it was the *only* animated scene back in early access. So if you want to do the dirty, you needed to kill them all, not just the men but the women and the children as well
I don't think the point about "all drow being evil because that's how drow are" is particularly correct. Drow who follow Lolth, an evil God, are evil by proxy. Seldarine drow who have gone against Lolth are more inclined to be good aligned, because they're not attached to that evil God. Like Shadowheart can't be a good character until she steers away from Shar, because her religion is evil and promotes evil deeds. Hopefully that makes sense lol.
So I also super hate the whole evil race is evil trope, which is 100% where drow normally fall, but one thing I liked about bg3 is that it felt like it actually subverted that a bit? Like, there's two kinds of drow in bg3: the seldarine and the lolth-sworn, but despite the game treating them as two different "races", the only difference is default eye color and dialogue choices, rather than the differences you see between drow and other elf races, so they feel much more like two Drow nations, rather than two races which have inherent moral characteristics. (I like to headcanon that the red eyes are because of being sworn to Lolth rather than an actual racial difference, meaning the two "races" are really just two different cultures.) And having an evil nation headed by an evil god felt a lot less gross than having an evil race. Another thing I like was that despite there being two very different drow cultures, no one in the game except other drow acknowledge this at all. Like, if you're playing a seldarine drow, you'll still face all sorts of prejudice for being a drow (or the privilege, when in comes to infiltrating the goblin camp and ruined village). That felt kind of like, true to life, in that the topside world is all uniformly prejudiced against the drow (and really, all the underdark races), without being willing to see the actual cultural differences between different drow. Just like "oh, all you drow are all the same". On the other hand, I liked how other drow do recognize it: like I think I got distinct sass from some lolth-sworn drow for being like, weak or whatever, as well as being able to gossip with the drow twins at the brothel (who are also seldarine drow) about how they claim to use sex techniques from menzobarran is nonsense because they've obviously never been there. It's hardly a 10/10 sort of protrayal: the game really wanted me to treat deep gnomes like slaves when i'm like 99% sure that's a lolth-sworn exclusive thing. I wish they'd really divided up the dialogue differences between lolth-sworn drow and seldarine drow because there's still lots of really evil [drow] tagged dialgue lines I would have preferred were actually relegated to lolth-sworn drow.
I'm still on my "first" playthrough. "First", because I'm working on several different characters at the same time, but the one with whom I have reached furthest is my Dark Urge (Lolth-sworn) Drow Sorceress. I think it's hilarious that as a drow you have several special options to order around the goblins, and then, as Lolth-sworn, after the sex scene with Minthara, you have the option to just (I presume) murder her for turning her back on Lolth (Which I did not pick, but I may, one day choose to do). Minthara is such an interesting character to me, and, as someone who has had a brain tumor, fairly recently, I find myself able to relate to the main character in several different ways because of the way you can feel the worm, behind your eye, doing different things. (It's really fucking weird how I relate to those tings, honestly, because the remnants of my brain tumor are still there making me feel a certain way) Once I finish the game, I will probably make a video bout m experience with the game. Anyway, you are adorable and I loved this little look into Minthara. She might be one of my favorite characters so far, but... well, I've only put about 50 hours into the game divided amongst three or four different characters.
Thank you for this video. I loved this game's take on such a comically evil character. They managed to make her cartoonish, realistic and relatable at the same time.
Hi - Love your video. I've watched this more than once even. I have to respectfully say, Baenre is pronounced "Bane - Ray". Minthara also mentions it at some point too.
Minthara my beloved! I do wanna add that jf you play as durge and refuse bhaal she disapproves of that which kinda doesn't fit with her "there are no gods left for me"-arc? Like she's through with lolth, with the absolute, because even for all her faith they threw her away, bjt durge not becoming their father’s murder-puppet is an action she's unhappy about? She even has a voice line about how the gods suck that names bhaal along with her big sources of trauma, lolth and the absolute. I always find that strange. Anyway if loving minthara is wrong i don't want to be right
I've seen that the breaking up with your for rejecting Bhaal was a bug, because I agree that does not match her character at all. It makes no sense for her to be mad at you for not becoming a puppet.
@PocketLeaves Yeah, the break-up was a bug but you still get the "Minthara disapproves" when you reject bhaal. but she didn't have any dialogue about it afterwards, just the usual "thank fuck orin is dead" scene
I agree with your opinion on Drow and how they are depicted. Its why I prefer Eberron and Golarian. [Even though Golarian has the same issue of drow =evil up until the remaster where Drow were errtataed out due to ogl issues] One character I often compare Minthara to is Regil from Pathfinder Wotr. Both are pragmatic, darker aligned compared to other choices who sworn themselves to a code. [Minthara is a paladin and Regil is a Hellknight. And that faction is a can of worms on its own] Hell. Both characters starting out wearing black armor, and use blunt weapons as a starting weapon. Both magical. (They have a lot of similarities now that I think about it]
Trust me, there is a lot to drow lore if you look into it. It's more that they feel robbed of life above ground in some stories and want revenge. But even in older DnD, that isn't the case for all. And if you play as a drow in BG3 you get to play with that morality a lot, even as the "good" aligned. They are more focused on strength as a race to survive the extremely harsh environment of the Underdark
Omg, I wish we got to dive into that more (the specifically feeling robbed). That honestly sounds really cool, and like a fun internal conflict to explore!
The tiefling party glitch happened for me too with astarion and shadowheart! Kept just sending me to Astarion (not complaining) I’ve never seen it happen to anyone else
Minthara's journey after being freed from the Absolute makes me wonder what would happen if someone like Z'rell or even Priestess Gut was freed. What would they be like without the Absolute's influence?
I noticed that she may be a party member because after clearing out the goblin camp I noticed she had unique underwear so I asked my brother who played the game twice before and he told me she was like an evil play through character
I just recruited Minthara in my girl camp play through (not dark urge) and already love her so much. I didn’t know you could romance her without betraying the grove in act one but it doesn’t matter anyway because I am in a fully committed relationship with Lea’zel in this playthrough.
The only time I sided with the Goblins against the grove it was because I'd already accidentally caused the druids to slaughter almost all of the Tieflings. I killed the shadow druids and then one other druid who was in the process of killing the last 3 tieflings. This was before meeting Karlach, who refused to join me because she blamed me for killing the tieflings even though I did no such thing. I had little choice but to turn in her head to the Paladins of Tyr and let Wyll get an infernal robe instead of horns. Wyll abandoned me at the goblin party, so after the sex scene I save scummed and went on to Moonrise without going back to the grove. Minthara kind of bugged out and began her grove speech while standing before Kethric, but then instead of beginning the romance scene she went straight to her trial.
Drow have always been problematic in their conception (Don't google "Pools of Darkness Video Game Cover" for example). I think my favorite piece of Minthara dialogue points towards how they could be written and maintained as a largely antagonistic force with less of the baggage from the original conception. "Bhaal. Lolth. The Absolute. They do not have followers. They only have victims. And they reward devotion with death." The Drow are people who were abandoned by the Elven Pantheon at large, and literally given to Lolth when she fell from grace and have been groomed and dominated by a literal mad god for countless generations of which who had no say or part in the Crown Wars. Which is just a complete nightmare and outrageous fuckup on the part of the rest of the Elven Pantheon.
Lolth is the goddes of chaos...she gain more power the more she is worshiped and the more chaos she unleash. she manipulated and twisted Mhenzoberanzan drows mind for centuries untill they became what they are now: a pepole who believe in chaos, worship murderous intent and envy the power of anyone over them in the hierarchy. saying drows are evil is stating a fact but it do not mean its their fault. in the novel trilogy of the dark elf we see a guy with such a good heart struggle against their society and traditions ''assassination, plotting, do any cheap shots to gain power'' he goes by the name of Drizzt and he is reffered to 2 times in BG3. his father helped him a lot teaching him how to fight but also that his nature is not someting to be ashamed of. Drizzt is one of my favorite characters ever and him, his father Zaknafin, another drow named Jarlaxle and many others can be genuinely good or at least not evil (refering to Jarlaxle here). whats really twisted about this is drows are masters of lying and pretending so you need to be careful either way. i eard that mhenzoberanzzan drows are starting to wake up in Faerun lore so im hopeful they overcome so many years of brainwash. thats all for me i love my nerd stuff haha XD
Divine Health at level 3 does not grant poison immunity. Only disease immunity. Paladins get Protection from Poison at level 5 as a level 2 spell, which grants poison resistance.
If you romance minthara when you're going to temple Bhaal to kill orin she tells you are alurssrin if you play as drow your character knows what that word mean if you are not drow you can ask her what that means she says mean love. This is link video czcams.com/video/M2skM9U_7_s/video.htmlsi=vWAluxJHZhmxm_a9
1:43 Not something I thought I'd hear today 4:45 Dark Elves were depicted as evil by Celts long before any of them had even met a person from Africa, maybe Gary Gygax was a racist, maybe not but I can see why people who love fantasy and mythologies would have a hard time believing that or even choose to reject it entirely, sorry Mel I also find it hard to believe as well 6:38 I would have went with 'your childhood was horrible' Yeesh! 9:20 That is some really cool worldbuilding 11:16 Considering how Bards usually act, Paladins should kick their asses, also between 'sit on your face' and 'kick your ass' I think you're a lot more comfortable in the front of the camera because you never talked like this before 15:24 I like Goblins, if I was evil I'd have Goblins for minions 18:47 Have you explained what the absolute is? If so I have completely forgotten what it is 23:34 Whoa... What's with Gobo hate Minthara? 24:34 Faith without deeds is dead? Is that he said? 28:21 I can think of few things more terrifying 36:24 We all need someone we can trust, it can be both lonely and painful to live without it 36:37 I almost regret swearing off pornography, because your actually pretty good at selling these characters, its a good thing video games have become so expensive 46:20 Ha ha ha! 54:43 You have convinced me Dark Elves are cool, was always more of a Dwarf, Lizardfolk or Orc kind of guy but Ghouls, Vampires and Elves are starting to grow on me 56:57 I wonder if one of writers of this series grew up in a cult, seems to be a reoccurring theme in these videos 58:59 Your really good at expressing yourself in a way that makes sense 59:42 That you're in touch with your edgy teenage self? Maybe? On an unrelated have you read the latest Black Butler chapter..? SPOILERS........................................... I really love the implication that Ciel is Finny's warden and that Ciel is the one raising Finny in that classical Victorian nobility raising and being raised by their own servants kind of thing. Even if it was done for cynical/self-serving reasons its funny to think of Ciel as the closest thing Finny has to a father and Sebastian as the closest thing he has to a mother.
Honestly, it's pretty easy to avoid sex in this game if you're not comfortable with it! You're given plenty of opportunity to shut it down, and many romance options aren't actually all that explicit. So if you're ever interested in playing or watching a play through, I highly recommend it! (and there's always the nudity filter you can turn on if you don't want to see anything) The Absolute is the big bad evil guy of the game! I HAVE read the new black butler chapter!! I've always loved the relationship between Ciel and his servants, especially Finny
I was really looking forward to this video because Minthara is my favorite companion in BG3, but to completely lost me with your “racism” nonsense! I’ve been playing D&D since the “red box” basic rules in the 80’s and this new age “D&D is racist” garbage is out of control.
@@channel45853 well chalk it up to my generation or my upbringing but I don’t accuse somebody of being racist on something as trivial as an imaginary race in a game. By doing so you are accusing Gary Gygax, his friends, his family and all of the producers, artists, editors, storytellers, and corporations owning and supporting D&D of being racist. Is that really a road we want to go down? If Drow are racist because they have black skin, are black dragons racist? How about red dragons? How did orcs become racist? I’m sorry but my brain isn’t wired to view the world through the lens of race. I know that since the ascension of St. Ffloyd it’s become cool, but that’s just lazy, unimaginative thinking and literal hysterical group think.
I've enjoyed some of your earlier videos but I'm not even 4 minutes in and you start complaining about racism in a fantasy world where grey skin is black and then, there are some conspiracy racist undertones to it all? Every race has heroes and villains and that's what's making it interesting. You're the one seeing the color here, not the developers. Lae'zel has a fucked up evil culture too but she's green so apparently that's ok? Also, the biggest hero character & father here is black. People like you have to stop seeing color in everything. I would personally love to see more villains of my country and I'm sure many others would too. Please stop with the double standards. We're here to enjoy a fantasy world, not listen to your American political opinions
every race has heroes and villains, but her problem was with making the whole race of drow evil, which doesn't bode well especially with how their skin tone is darker, it can show subtle racism of the creator in them, unconciusly, thinking that darker skin = worse person her complaint doesn't seem to be about the devs, more dnd or wizard of waverly coast or whatever, or at least that should be because the drow was created by them and no one can stop seeing color in everything, everyone has biases that they know or do not recognize, and you should look into yourself and really analyze yourself and your thoughts to see yours, as most people have these biases i don't see the double standard, and if calling unconsciously racist things out is only an American thing, then maybe other parts of the world should follow that example and take a page from the American book
Every race in dnd has a tendency towards certain alignment due to how important alignment used to be however this is showing that both her and you have no idea of the actual lore behind why they’re listed as evil because with the race starting from demon worshipping slavers that continue to do those things but that completely ignores the other evil aligned races as well as the good aligned races from the under dark with dark skin
The whole "dark skinned race being naturally evil by the nature of their birth" is actually super well known and has been part of fantasy discourse for a while. People are very aware that it has racist undertones (and has been used by some creators as a way to justify their racist behaviour), and just because you're learning about it now doesn't mean it's some new thing that's been invented just to piss you off lol
4:48 yeah, you just lost me there. Reminds me of that time twatter got the same idea about orcs. Really compelling stuff. Please, don't bring this crap into d&d community, like, ever. Or do, i can't stop ya.
You do realize you're the kind of person I was talking about when I said dnd players refuse to see the obvious ways that real world biases make their way into fiction. But I can't force you to have common sense.
@@PocketLeaves You do realize, that all of you just said is an insane leap of logic based on no information? Because i do not consider Drow evil because "muh dark-skin". But because their society is based around pure evil demon-god, and their core value is power over all else. Similarly to gith, but less militant. As to why i reject this inane idea about "irl biases" is because Seldarine Drow exist. Who are also dark-skinned. Who are either Good or at least Neutral in terms of alignment. This has nothing to do with common sense. You want your view of a thing to be objectively correct, based on "i feel that way". That's not how real world works. So, have some common sense and consider your own biases. But then again, the chances of that are minuscule - and it's a real shame, too.
The Halsin and Minthara sharing a tent thing will never stop being funny for me.
Honestly just vibing
They sadly fixed it, and destroyed my headcanon couple of "I can fix her." and "I can make him worse."
@@TTRPGSarvisMinthara & her higher Charisma won custody of Thaniel & the tent.
Plus, Halsin probably flirted with the judge & it backfired.
In my most recent playthrough Halsin actually got kicked out of his tent and I just had to find him chilling on the ground somewhere in camp, which was extra funny while in the Shadow-cursed lands because despite Halsin being kicked out of his tent, Thaniel was still at the tent, so it looked like Minty took the kid in the divorce lmao
@@TTRPGSarvisthey fixed it but now Minthara keeps murdering Halsin (he will just randomly drop dead), at least in my game.
One of these days you’ll have to do an “unpacking the dark urge”
There is no escaping it
Oh I would love to!!! Waiting for patch 7 to drop though with the new evil endings!
I want to say something about Minthara's upbringing:
1. She genuinely does not like her mother. She respects her power and strength to maintain her status as the family matron, but she has no real positive emotions towards her other than that. She wants to kill her mother solely for the status it would give her as well as a form of revenge for her mother attacking her. Most Drow do not see their parents as protectors/guardians, they actually rarely see them in life and are raised by slaves or older siblings (siblings that will try to kill them as well to maintain their own status in the family).
2. Her mother didn't really try to kill her as a coming of age practice, it was to test if Minthara was good enough to live and carry on the house name. If she survives, she proved herself and is allowed to live; if she fails fending off her mother's attack, she'd be seen as worthless and killed off to prevent "weak blood" from tainting the family line.
3. When you get her in the good route, she tells you how envious she is of Karlach for how happy and positive she is despite the hell she's been through. So you can learn from that how she genuinely wants to be happy, but has no idea on how to do that without falling back on what she was taught: obtain power and have others submit to you.
Drow culture in Lolth-based cities is very darwinian and harsh. It's kill or be killed, the strongest survives, the powerful thrive, and the weak die. To Minthara, a woman who was born and raised in a powerful noble Lolth-sworn house (one of if not THE most powerful house in Menzoberranzan), this was perfectly normal for her to be abused and nearly killed on a daily basis. She looks back to those memories with no real emotion other than "I was happy, my path in life was set out and I had luxuries most did not." No love, no warm fuzzy feelings, just old anger and a neutral perspective of her upbringing. It's why she speaks so rationally when discussing her life, it's a trauma response involving distancing herself from the feelings she had back then.
Minthara: Do you have elder siblings, wizard?
Gale: You're about to say something awful, aren't you?
Minthara: In Menzoberranzan, after a house has two sons, every subsequent male-born child is slaughtered at birth, as it is useless, even for breeding.
Minthara: You have the aura of a third child about you.
...
Yep, I love that sense of humour.
This means, if she will have more than two sons, she will slaughter her own children. funny.
On my knees begging larian to give minthy an act 3 romance scene and just more content in general bc I adore her
Before my Honor Mode playthrough, I always thought the method for recruiting Minthara without destroying the grove was really weird and dumb. Like, I specifically decided to cave Minthara's skull in nonlethally... and just her... why, exactly? Because of metagame knowledge?
Then I played Honor Mode as a pacifist Durge. Never turned off nonlethal attacks except against someone actively trying to bring harm to someone else (like Gortash, Orin, or Ethel). That meant I didn't kill Dror Razglin. I didn't give it much thought until I reach the *Anti-Hag support group* in Act 3, where Kled the random hobgoblin has *Dror Razglin's Legendary Action*.
So, somehow, Dror survived the battle like Minthara did, except he made a deal with a hag to deafen the voice of the Absolute, and then joined Mayrina under the new name of Kled. It's probably a bug, but it was a really fun discovery.
That’s amazing. Thank you for sharing.
I always thought Kled looked familiar!!!!!!!!!
I killed Dror and still met Kled after
I have no idea how I ended up here so soon, but yes I do indeed appreciate women’s wrongs. (Also her last name is pronounced “Bane-ray”)
The narrator of the Drizzt audiobooks says "Bay-En-Ree". So who knows, really?
@@TTRPGSarvis I was going off of the way Minthara pronounces it in game. I haven’t listened to the books,only read them,so I was unaware this discrepancy existed.
@@Wilted.lycorisYeah. Minthara's pronunciation surprised me because I've been hearing "Bay-En-Ree" for like, a decade since I started listening to the audiobooks. I'm gonna say both are valid.
@@TTRPGSarvis Agreed,both sound cool too. I love drow lol.
If Minthara only does women’s wrongs then I don’t ever wanna be right
(Ty for the video btw, they’re always amazing and really calming)
What is 'woman's wrongs'?
@@Mailed-Knight what I’m tryna be for her lol
Ouch. This one actually hurts. I'm not going to be aggressive or sarcastic like another commenter was when they brought it up, but being that Minthara is my favorite character in BG3, me anticipating your breakdown on her was the entire reason I subscribed to you. And, ah... well... the video itself, or at least the first five minutes of it, ended up being why I unsubscribed.
Not wanting to start a fight or anything, still gave the video a Like because I really support this kind of content, and I like you a lot as a content creator and want to see your channel grow. It's just there's a lot in that first five minutes that I find reductive at best and alienating at worst. I don't think it's coming from a malicious place or anything, you're obviously very intelligent and sweet, and clearly passionate about the material. I probably don't need to tell you that I wasn't looking over your shoulder while you were doing research, but putting it optimistically, respectfully, and gently, I think that there maybe could have been a little more research done on Forgotten Realms Drow history before certain opinions and viewpoints solidified the way they did. Not even necessarily the one at 4:30-ish, but like the point you make at 4:13 - a point I'm completely on board with and 100% agree with you on: "evil because evil" is definitely lazy and boring, but my issue is that there are a myriad of reasons Drow culture got to the point it did, both for reasons that aren't their fault and reasons there are. The comment left me scratching my head a little; you can *absolutely* have the opinion that it's boring, that's all a matter of taste, it's just when you described what you would have much preferred instead of "evil because evil", you described your preference leaning toward what they kind of already were - which can still be boring to you, make no mistake, but the "evil because evil" viewpoint is, in my opinion, an oversimplified one compared to what their history and background shows. But that isn't even to mention the comparison to how men make the rules in real life similarly to how Drow Matrons make the rules in the Underdark (and I honestly think that phrasing has less to do with actual belief and more to do with just the off-the-cuff style of the videos), or the comment that, at least to me, came across as very passive aggressive about how certain people in D&D refuse to believe that reality bleeds into fiction - which I believe is likely very true of course, but in this context, I felt it came across kind of a reinforcement against people who might disagree with your take on how Drow culture parallels reality. I don't know. It made me pause the video a few times until I clicked off of it, went to work, and came back home. Then I tried to re-watch it, went through the same feelings, and really just decided that this isn't for me like I thought it was. Which is fine.
Obviously, this video received very well, and the comments were (mostly) positive and polite. I hope if you read this comment, you'll see it as such. I'm just going to be dropping off the comment and moving on, so no need to reply or anything like that. I do sincerely wish you a wonderful day, and here's to you cracking 10k subs by the end of the year. :)
As someone who typically plays Chaotic Good characters, I can't help but find the Lawful Evil Paladin to be my favorite character in the entire game. Not only for supporting womens' wrongs, but also because I just feel like her backstory makes the most sense for an adventurer, alongside Wyll and Karlach
It's true that these three have backstories that are pretty legit for a regular DND character, though I'd say that the "my character is a Cleric of Shar that was sent on a mission and to keep it secret and protect the cult in case she gets arrested had her memories wiped. Go wild with her backstory if you want" also sounds like the type of shit I'd roll up to a party with
Drow are the way they are because of Lolth's influence. She's a Chaotic Evil goddess who wants her followers to backstab each other competing for her favor. They strongest will rise to the top, the weak will fall by the wayside.
Too much lore to go into in a comment, but Drow society in general, Menzoberranzan in particular, & House Baenre most specifically, is wild. The first book (chronologically) in the Legend of Drizzt book series takes place in Menzoberranzan. You learn a lot about the place & its people. Highly recommended.
I've been looking forward to this video since I started watching your unpacking videos a month ago! Minthara being my first, and so far favorite romance (I know enough about the other romances to draw that conclusion)
First off, absolutely fucked up that the game bugged out like that. But then, it wouldn't be a Minthara run without new and unique bugs (seriously there's literally been new Minthara bugs introduced with EVERY patch, and many of the hotfixes). But you are right that, outside her desire to take charge, the exact substance of her sex scene is less important than the emotions surrounding it; the fact she comes to you in that moment as herself, and stays to connect with you despite knowing that something has changed between her and the godthing in her head.
I made the extremely uncommon decision to fully romance her in my very first playthrough-I originally planned to load the save and continue on after defending the grove, but after the battle I used Speak With Dead on her corpse, fresh off her romance scene and the promise of reuniting with her in act 2, and just felt this overwhelming sense of loss. I couldn't do it, I had to see where this would go. So I reworked my Paladin Tav's story so that she remained an oathbreaker for the rest of act 1, and most of act 2 (only restoring her oath once their romance started and her Oath of Glory has been re-contextualized into something akin to a heavily romanticized Oath of Conquest) That's just the power Minthara has-I literally rewrote my character mid-game to fit better with Minthara as her love interest, and the result was so much better than if I tried to plan an Evil Tav from the start to romance her.
At the time, there was no knock out method; my choice was to raid the grove, use the silly sheepthara exploit, or kill her. Or use the Daughter of Lolth mod, which admittedly I don't know why I didn't at the time, but I'm glad I didn't, and I'm glad I chose to recruit her the intended way, because I think even at the time I suspected what I feel very strongly now-while it's nice that the knock out method has allowed more people to enjoy her character, I agree with Emma Gregory (Minthara's voice and performance actor) that this came at a cost of a simplification of her character.
The decision to raid the grove is a deliberately heavy one, and I think there's an irreconcilable difference in the dynamic between Minthara and a player who actively participated in one of the Absolute's atrocities, and that between Minthara and a player who remained morally irreproachable throughout act 1. Raiding the grove leaves you with no moral high ground over Minthara, except for what you do going forward. That's how it worked for my Tav-she regretted it at the time, but as her bond with Minthara grew she found her confidence in her own Paladin ideals returning, and she sought to not fall into despair or seek atonement, but to carry on doing good despite her fall. As Fray the Dark Knight trainer from Final Fantasy 14 said, "Do not seek forgiveness, for it will not ease the burden. It weighs as it should."
Speaking of Paladins, and you mentioned this, but I think it is very fitting that she doesn't have an arc where she has to figure out her values. Part of a Paladin's role is to be the ultimate embodiment of a set of values, and she's had hers figured out a long, long time ago. Where her journey lies is in building those connections with others, which is represented primarily through her relationship to the player. While it's true she expresses discomfort at the party and comments that the others probably don't like her, that doesn't mean she dislikes them, or doesn't understand them. By asking her what she thinks of the other companions, you find that she has lots of good things to say about every one of them, even those she is dismissive of at first.
Take Karlach and Gale. She basically has nothing but praise and pity for Karlach, but is immediately critical of Gale. At first she doesn't see any point in getting to know Gale cause he's not going to live long enough to appreciate her affections. But she genuinely seems to like Karlach from minute one, despite her also having a short life-expectancy. The difference being the causes; Karlach was enslaved and given the infernal engine heart through no fault of her own, whereas Gale came to harbor the Netherese Orb through a self-admitted grab for power that backfired. She feels Gale brought it upon himself, Karlach did not. The only thing she did wrong was trust the wrong person, but Minthara doesn't see trust as a weakness. She also admires Karlach's optimism despite her shortened life span. To Minthara, mortality is a curse. If she could, she'd live forever, but she is troubled by the thought that someday she and everything she loves, even her beloved Menzoberranzan, will crumble to dust. Karlach doesn't have that hangup, and experiences the full joy of life in the moment. I think it's a quality Minthara wishes she could emulate, but any overt desire to do so has been dampened down over 200+ years of drow noble life.
Despite her initial comments making it seem likely, I don't think she truly dislikes or hates Gale either. She will make biting jabs at him ("You have the aura of a third child.") but that's all they are, jabs. Knocks at his ego. The thing she thinks he has too much of. She doesn't mind his thirst for power so long as he doesn't shoot himself in the foot seeking it. She will simultaneously encourage Origin Gale in his most outrageous plans as she Stone Cold Stunners him for being smug about it.
Anyway I could go on for so much more about Minthara, I really do love and adore her that much, but I'll stop here. Thank you if you've read this far.
I feel like drow have always been portrayed as victims of an evil society in Dungeons & Dragons. At least all the drow lore I've read. I don't think there's anything that considers them inherently evil besides prejudice that is incorrect in-universe.
Minthara is another reason I can never uninstall the No Romance Limit mod... (And no, she does not like Gale. lol Poor Gale.)
Lmao I love that the game was so used to you going for Astarion that it just assumed you mis-clicked when you chose Minthara.
Also, been waiting for this, this has been such a good series, is there anything else BG3 planned for you after this one?(dunno if this is the last episode of Unpacking but it feels like it could be)
I really enjoyed this. Good to see another of your BG3 videos. As a character, I like Minthara. I only ever recruited her on the good path. I really like your use of the cult analogy. It is her parallel with Shadowheart and Lae'zel, despite Minthara never really acknowledging it. One of the things I like most about her is that she never repents nor seeks redemption, nor does she have any wish to do so. She's flat out power hungry first and foremost and totally OK with it. She can develop real feelings for you, and even real appreciation if not friendship for the companions. But, in the end, as a drow, power and recognition are always first.
Minthara is Neutral or Lawful Evil in her attitudes and comments. Atrocities are fine, if they have a clear and specific purpose. Enslaving refugees? She's fine with that. Eating them? If the situation is bad enough. Killing a few to make a point? Fine. But pointless slaughter at no personal or goal related gain? She can't abide that.
While I agree that it's fun that Minthara is fully in support of every path to power you choose, I hated any companion being OK with joining Bhaal. You're joining a god whose plan is to kill them all and anyone they care about. Anyone sane should see the downside of that.
I've hated the structure and logic of Drow society from the first time I read the Drzzt books. Even as a teen, it wasn't a society that could possibly have continued to survive as presented.
Which is not to say that you can't have a society built on cruelty and conquest. But there has to be some level of belief in that society that following the rules will be rewarded. And that the rules are ultimately just. The only reason anyone does anything in Drow culture is the fear that hideous torture or death will come immediately rather than slightly later.
But that's another and much longer video essay. 🙂
Looking forward to your next deep dive.
thank you so much for making this video, bg3 got me into drow culture and i literally can’t bring myself to romance anyone else in this game
If you're interested in the Drow, I totally recommend the Drizzt novels. Especially in audiobook form.
As a Minthara enjoyer I've been waiting for this one!!😍
I'm so glad Larion added an easy way to get Minthara on a good playthrough because imo having Astarion being selfish chaotic evil and Minthara being ruthless lawful evil, like these two little devils on your shoulders, while you're just trying to save everyone best you can is peak party composition.
Been looking forward to this without knowing.
13:10 Also on that point in Moonrise towers the focus on the Emerald Grove is because their army along with the Harpers is the one that once defeated Ketheric Thorm, so he needed them weakened to carry out The Absolute plan, there's a book in Moonrise Towers going up stairs after talking to Z'rell that explains this. It's more or less where Alfira and the children spawn post-battle.
YAAAAAAY I WAS WAITING FOR THIS
Of course I love Minthara, she's the funniest person I know.
Just wanna say your little giggle is adorable in the best way possible. Also glad I found your channel these character deep dives have all been amazing!
Also about Minthara's act 1 romance : it was the *only* animated scene back in early access.
So if you want to do the dirty, you needed to kill them all, not just the men but the women and the children as well
I don't think the point about "all drow being evil because that's how drow are" is particularly correct. Drow who follow Lolth, an evil God, are evil by proxy. Seldarine drow who have gone against Lolth are more inclined to be good aligned, because they're not attached to that evil God. Like Shadowheart can't be a good character until she steers away from Shar, because her religion is evil and promotes evil deeds.
Hopefully that makes sense lol.
You're so gorgeous! 😍 Also, thank you for all your BG3 content
So I also super hate the whole evil race is evil trope, which is 100% where drow normally fall, but one thing I liked about bg3 is that it felt like it actually subverted that a bit? Like, there's two kinds of drow in bg3: the seldarine and the lolth-sworn, but despite the game treating them as two different "races", the only difference is default eye color and dialogue choices, rather than the differences you see between drow and other elf races, so they feel much more like two Drow nations, rather than two races which have inherent moral characteristics. (I like to headcanon that the red eyes are because of being sworn to Lolth rather than an actual racial difference, meaning the two "races" are really just two different cultures.) And having an evil nation headed by an evil god felt a lot less gross than having an evil race.
Another thing I like was that despite there being two very different drow cultures, no one in the game except other drow acknowledge this at all. Like, if you're playing a seldarine drow, you'll still face all sorts of prejudice for being a drow (or the privilege, when in comes to infiltrating the goblin camp and ruined village). That felt kind of like, true to life, in that the topside world is all uniformly prejudiced against the drow (and really, all the underdark races), without being willing to see the actual cultural differences between different drow. Just like "oh, all you drow are all the same". On the other hand, I liked how other drow do recognize it: like I think I got distinct sass from some lolth-sworn drow for being like, weak or whatever, as well as being able to gossip with the drow twins at the brothel (who are also seldarine drow) about how they claim to use sex techniques from menzobarran is nonsense because they've obviously never been there.
It's hardly a 10/10 sort of protrayal: the game really wanted me to treat deep gnomes like slaves when i'm like 99% sure that's a lolth-sworn exclusive thing. I wish they'd really divided up the dialogue differences between lolth-sworn drow and seldarine drow because there's still lots of really evil [drow] tagged dialgue lines I would have preferred were actually relegated to lolth-sworn drow.
I'm still on my "first" playthrough. "First", because I'm working on several different characters at the same time, but the one with whom I have reached furthest is my Dark Urge (Lolth-sworn) Drow Sorceress. I think it's hilarious that as a drow you have several special options to order around the goblins, and then, as Lolth-sworn, after the sex scene with Minthara, you have the option to just (I presume) murder her for turning her back on Lolth (Which I did not pick, but I may, one day choose to do). Minthara is such an interesting character to me, and, as someone who has had a brain tumor, fairly recently, I find myself able to relate to the main character in several different ways because of the way you can feel the worm, behind your eye, doing different things. (It's really fucking weird how I relate to those tings, honestly, because the remnants of my brain tumor are still there making me feel a certain way) Once I finish the game, I will probably make a video bout m experience with the game. Anyway, you are adorable and I loved this little look into Minthara. She might be one of my favorite characters so far, but... well, I've only put about 50 hours into the game divided amongst three or four different characters.
Thank you for this video. I loved this game's take on such a comically evil character. They managed to make her cartoonish, realistic and relatable at the same time.
Mommythara😩🥵 🤣Im loving your unpacking series!
The giggle after "That was sarcasm" made me giggle. sub earned lol
You're actually really funny omgg lol
My second most anticipated video essay from your channel, very excited to support women's wrongs (I can make her worse).
I have slaughtered the Tieflings before and I will again for Minthara
Hi - Love your video. I've watched this more than once even. I have to respectfully say, Baenre is pronounced "Bane - Ray". Minthara also mentions it at some point too.
Minthara my beloved! I do wanna add that jf you play as durge and refuse bhaal she disapproves of that which kinda doesn't fit with her "there are no gods left for me"-arc? Like she's through with lolth, with the absolute, because even for all her faith they threw her away, bjt durge not becoming their father’s murder-puppet is an action she's unhappy about? She even has a voice line about how the gods suck that names bhaal along with her big sources of trauma, lolth and the absolute. I always find that strange. Anyway if loving minthara is wrong i don't want to be right
I've seen that the breaking up with your for rejecting Bhaal was a bug, because I agree that does not match her character at all. It makes no sense for her to be mad at you for not becoming a puppet.
@PocketLeaves Yeah, the break-up was a bug but you still get the "Minthara disapproves" when you reject bhaal. but she didn't have any dialogue about it afterwards, just the usual "thank fuck orin is dead" scene
I agree with your opinion on Drow and how they are depicted. Its why I prefer Eberron and Golarian. [Even though Golarian has the same issue of drow =evil up until the remaster where Drow were errtataed out due to ogl issues]
One character I often compare Minthara to is Regil from Pathfinder Wotr. Both are pragmatic, darker aligned compared to other choices who sworn themselves to a code. [Minthara is a paladin and Regil is a Hellknight. And that faction is a can of worms on its own]
Hell. Both characters starting out wearing black armor, and use blunt weapons as a starting weapon. Both magical. (They have a lot of similarities now that I think about it]
Trust me, there is a lot to drow lore if you look into it. It's more that they feel robbed of life above ground in some stories and want revenge. But even in older DnD, that isn't the case for all. And if you play as a drow in BG3 you get to play with that morality a lot, even as the "good" aligned. They are more focused on strength as a race to survive the extremely harsh environment of the Underdark
Omg, I wish we got to dive into that more (the specifically feeling robbed). That honestly sounds really cool, and like a fun internal conflict to explore!
@@PocketLeaves also, Halsin has a lot of lore that was cut but people were able to find it
The tiefling party glitch happened for me too with astarion and shadowheart! Kept just sending me to Astarion (not complaining) I’ve never seen it happen to anyone else
Minthara's journey after being freed from the Absolute makes me wonder what would happen if someone like Z'rell or even Priestess Gut was freed. What would they be like without the Absolute's influence?
If you don't have an unpacking dark urge planned, you totally should!
I noticed that she may be a party member because after clearing out the goblin camp I noticed she had unique underwear so I asked my brother who played the game twice before and he told me she was like an evil play through character
MINTHARA MY WIFE!!!!!!!!
I didn't even know Minthara was recuritable companion
Women with deep and commanding voices are amazing.
I just recruited Minthara in my girl camp play through (not dark urge) and already love her so much. I didn’t know you could romance her without betraying the grove in act one but it doesn’t matter anyway because I am in a fully committed relationship with Lea’zel in this playthrough.
The only time I sided with the Goblins against the grove it was because I'd already accidentally caused the druids to slaughter almost all of the Tieflings. I killed the shadow druids and then one other druid who was in the process of killing the last 3 tieflings. This was before meeting Karlach, who refused to join me because she blamed me for killing the tieflings even though I did no such thing. I had little choice but to turn in her head to the Paladins of Tyr and let Wyll get an infernal robe instead of horns. Wyll abandoned me at the goblin party, so after the sex scene I save scummed and went on to Moonrise without going back to the grove. Minthara kind of bugged out and began her grove speech while standing before Kethric, but then instead of beginning the romance scene she went straight to her trial.
Minthara my beloved
Drow have always been problematic in their conception (Don't google "Pools of Darkness Video Game Cover" for example). I think my favorite piece of Minthara dialogue points towards how they could be written and maintained as a largely antagonistic force with less of the baggage from the original conception. "Bhaal. Lolth. The Absolute. They do not have followers. They only have victims. And they reward devotion with death." The Drow are people who were abandoned by the Elven Pantheon at large, and literally given to Lolth when she fell from grace and have been groomed and dominated by a literal mad god for countless generations of which who had no say or part in the Crown Wars. Which is just a complete nightmare and outrageous fuckup on the part of the rest of the Elven Pantheon.
10/10 would watch again
I love minthara, but I will never raid the grove again 😭
Emma Gregory's voice is perfect for her, genuinely wouldn't like her as much if she had a different VA
FINALLY
I broke a record for killing Minthara with a paladin. I killed her in two attacks.
Girl - how u gonna do this to me on a Sunday afternoon - the way I went from fuck minthra to then turning into a sheep pre patch
LETS GOOO
Lolth is the goddes of chaos...she gain more power the more she is worshiped and the more chaos she unleash. she manipulated and twisted Mhenzoberanzan drows mind for centuries untill they became what they are now: a pepole who believe in chaos, worship murderous intent and envy the power of anyone over them in the hierarchy. saying drows are evil is stating a fact but it do not mean its their fault. in the novel trilogy of the dark elf we see a guy with such a good heart struggle against their society and traditions ''assassination, plotting, do any cheap shots to gain power'' he goes by the name of Drizzt and he is reffered to 2 times in BG3. his father helped him a lot teaching him how to fight but also that his nature is not someting to be ashamed of. Drizzt is one of my favorite characters ever and him, his father Zaknafin, another drow named Jarlaxle and many others can be genuinely good or at least not evil (refering to Jarlaxle here). whats really twisted about this is drows are masters of lying and pretending so you need to be careful either way. i eard that mhenzoberanzzan drows are starting to wake up in Faerun lore so im hopeful they overcome so many years of brainwash. thats all for me i love my nerd stuff haha XD
Minthara sits on your face.
The elder scrolls soundtrack though
On my evil Durge run, my TAV destroyed her brain in that basement torture room
Hitler: bro, that’s fucked up.
You convinced me, one time I shall have to try NOT to kill Minthara.
7:44 Drow aren't... immune to poison???
Minthara is because she's a paladin, who gain that at as a feature at level 3.
Divine Health at level 3 does not grant poison immunity. Only disease immunity.
Paladins get Protection from Poison at level 5 as a level 2 spell, which grants poison resistance.
@@deusdex1186 then my confusion is even greater
If you romance minthara when you're going to temple Bhaal to kill orin she tells you are alurssrin if you play as drow your character knows what that word mean if you are not drow you can ask her what that means she says mean love. This is link video czcams.com/video/M2skM9U_7_s/video.htmlsi=vWAluxJHZhmxm_a9
She is my LOVE! My bae I love her.
I mean, we do be supporting her and her women wrong until she gets women right
1:43 Not something I thought I'd hear today
4:45 Dark Elves were depicted as evil by Celts long before any of them had even met a person from Africa, maybe Gary Gygax was a racist, maybe not but I can see why people who love fantasy and mythologies would have a hard time believing that or even choose to reject it entirely, sorry Mel I also find it hard to believe as well
6:38 I would have went with 'your childhood was horrible' Yeesh!
9:20 That is some really cool worldbuilding
11:16 Considering how Bards usually act, Paladins should kick their asses, also between 'sit on your face' and 'kick your ass' I think you're a lot more comfortable in the front of the camera because you never talked like this before
15:24 I like Goblins, if I was evil I'd have Goblins for minions
18:47 Have you explained what the absolute is? If so I have completely forgotten what it is
23:34 Whoa... What's with Gobo hate Minthara?
24:34 Faith without deeds is dead? Is that he said?
28:21 I can think of few things more terrifying
36:24 We all need someone we can trust, it can be both lonely and painful to live without it
36:37 I almost regret swearing off pornography, because your actually pretty good at selling these characters, its a good thing video games have become so expensive
46:20 Ha ha ha!
54:43 You have convinced me Dark Elves are cool, was always more of a Dwarf, Lizardfolk or Orc kind of guy but Ghouls, Vampires and Elves are starting to grow on me
56:57 I wonder if one of writers of this series grew up in a cult, seems to be a reoccurring theme in these videos
58:59 Your really good at expressing yourself in a way that makes sense
59:42 That you're in touch with your edgy teenage self? Maybe?
On an unrelated have you read the latest Black Butler chapter..? SPOILERS...........................................
I really love the implication that Ciel is Finny's warden and that Ciel is the one raising Finny in that classical Victorian nobility raising and being raised by their own servants kind of thing. Even if it was done for cynical/self-serving reasons its funny to think of Ciel as the closest thing Finny has to a father and Sebastian as the closest thing he has to a mother.
Honestly, it's pretty easy to avoid sex in this game if you're not comfortable with it! You're given plenty of opportunity to shut it down, and many romance options aren't actually all that explicit. So if you're ever interested in playing or watching a play through, I highly recommend it! (and there's always the nudity filter you can turn on if you don't want to see anything)
The Absolute is the big bad evil guy of the game!
I HAVE read the new black butler chapter!! I've always loved the relationship between Ciel and his servants, especially Finny
@@PocketLeaves Okay thanks for letting me know.
Thanks for the answer.
Agreed.
I was really looking forward to this video because Minthara is my favorite companion in BG3, but to completely lost me with your “racism” nonsense!
I’ve been playing D&D since the “red box” basic rules in the 80’s and this new age “D&D is racist” garbage is out of control.
a person can think certain parts of dnd is racist but that doesn't mean they think the whole thing is racist, you should not jump to conclusions
@@channel45853 well chalk it up to my generation or my upbringing but I don’t accuse somebody of being racist on something as trivial as an imaginary race in a game. By doing so you are accusing Gary Gygax, his friends, his family and all of the producers, artists, editors, storytellers, and corporations owning and supporting D&D of being racist. Is that really a road we want to go down? If Drow are racist because they have black skin, are black dragons racist? How about red dragons? How did orcs become racist? I’m sorry but my brain isn’t wired to view the world through the lens of race. I know that since the ascension of St. Ffloyd it’s become cool, but that’s just lazy, unimaginative thinking and literal hysterical group think.
I WILL NEVER GIVE UP HALSIN FOR MINTHARA, NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There's no need to, not anymore
L.
@@ItsOfficiaI Bear dad who loves children and restores de Shadow-Cursed Lands > Genocidal Maniac
Just knock her out lol
I've enjoyed some of your earlier videos but I'm not even 4 minutes in and you start complaining about racism in a fantasy world where grey skin is black and then, there are some conspiracy racist undertones to it all? Every race has heroes and villains and that's what's making it interesting.
You're the one seeing the color here, not the developers. Lae'zel has a fucked up evil culture too but she's green so apparently that's ok? Also, the biggest hero character & father here is black. People like you have to stop seeing color in everything. I would personally love to see more villains of my country and I'm sure many others would too.
Please stop with the double standards. We're here to enjoy a fantasy world, not listen to your American political opinions
every race has heroes and villains, but her problem was with making the whole race of drow evil, which doesn't bode well especially with how their skin tone is darker, it can show subtle racism of the creator in them, unconciusly, thinking that darker skin = worse person
her complaint doesn't seem to be about the devs, more dnd or wizard of waverly coast or whatever, or at least that should be because the drow was created by them
and no one can stop seeing color in everything, everyone has biases that they know or do not recognize, and you should look into yourself and really analyze yourself and your thoughts to see yours, as most people have these biases
i don't see the double standard, and if calling unconsciously racist things out is only an American thing, then maybe other parts of the world should follow that example and take a page from the American book
Every race in dnd has a tendency towards certain alignment due to how important alignment used to be however this is showing that both her and you have no idea of the actual lore behind why they’re listed as evil because with the race starting from demon worshipping slavers that continue to do those things but that completely ignores the other evil aligned races as well as the good aligned races from the under dark with dark skin
The whole "dark skinned race being naturally evil by the nature of their birth" is actually super well known and has been part of fantasy discourse for a while. People are very aware that it has racist undertones (and has been used by some creators as a way to justify their racist behaviour), and just because you're learning about it now doesn't mean it's some new thing that's been invented just to piss you off lol
I can’t stand minthara’s old lady voice
4:48 yeah, you just lost me there.
Reminds me of that time twatter got the same idea about orcs. Really compelling stuff.
Please, don't bring this crap into d&d community, like, ever. Or do, i can't stop ya.
You do realize you're the kind of person I was talking about when I said dnd players refuse to see the obvious ways that real world biases make their way into fiction. But I can't force you to have common sense.
Common sense would say that notorious slavers are in fact generally evil esp when there’s a module intro of breaking out of a slaver came
@@PocketLeaves You do realize, that all of you just said is an insane leap of logic based on no information?
Because i do not consider Drow evil because "muh dark-skin". But because their society is based around pure evil demon-god, and their core value is power over all else. Similarly to gith, but less militant.
As to why i reject this inane idea about "irl biases" is because Seldarine Drow exist.
Who are also dark-skinned.
Who are either Good or at least Neutral in terms of alignment.
This has nothing to do with common sense. You want your view of a thing to be objectively correct, based on "i feel that way". That's not how real world works.
So, have some common sense and consider your own biases.
But then again, the chances of that are minuscule - and it's a real shame, too.