Was I Wrong About Knife Angles?
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- čas přidán 16. 05. 2024
- A clarification on how to measure knife angles for knife sharpening.
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Chapters
01:26 What I did in the first video that was correct but people thought was incorrect
01:50 An example of why its correct
03:14 What people THOUGHT I did that was incorrect
03:54 How to finder the centerline relative to the BEVEL
05:18 A diagram showing the angle and math
07:03 Does any of this matter????
Videos are copyright protected. - Jak na to + styl
The formula to find centerline is sum of the two angles /2 or the average of the bevel angle, and the guide angle. The diagram explanation in the video is to show why we have to do that in the first place 👍
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I completely understood the previous video.
This angle finder is 1inch across, I use it for my rifle-optics.
B0CKRTZHC1
Can't post the whole link, but it's Amzn.
You can just calculate (14+18.5)/2 = 16.25, much easier
OK but if your knife has a flat why not just put the flat against the angle guide and you have the correct angle without any additonal work.
People can complain about miniscule things all they want, but your videos are the sole reason I can comfortably and effectively freehand sharpen all my knives with just your recommended diamond stone and a strop + compound. Such a great basic skill to have.
its not complaining lol, people were trying to understand the topic well and not just mindlessly act like they gained wrinkles
It wasn't complaining. It was my fault for not being specific about what i was showing. I mean my finger was in the way😂
Same here
Yeah. I like alex. But any dumb dumb can recommend that. Why keep watching his videos then? Theres more to it.
I agree 100%! There was nothing about the previous video he made that confused me and I'm 68! People don't have listening comprehension skills or critical thinking skills and that leaves them lacking the common sense to know when they've been thoroughly educated by a skilled craftsman and intelligent man... His willingness to share his skills and what he learns as he goes along is a precious thing these days and he is an excellent instructor!
I totally thought by flat portion in your last video, that you just meant the side of the knife. I didn't realize there was an actual flat portion.
Exactly my fault for not being more clear 👍
The ricasso of the knife is the “flat part” that has the full blade thickness with no bevels cut on it.
because the correct word is not flat, it is parallel. the angled side faces also tend to be or at least appear to be flat.
No parallel is a reference. So it would be the FLAT portion of the blade PARALLEL to the center line.
The finger covering what he was doing didn't exactly help either lol
Alex, the fact that you care so much about clarity is one of the main reasons I keep watching your videos, not to mention you addressing what so many other CZcamsrs neglect because they just don't think of all aspects of what viewers want to learn about... happy you're here for us all!!!
I understand how people got confused. It was hard to see exactly where you placed the angle finder and on a full flat ground spyderco, I can see where someone might have assumed you were on the flat ground bevel. Excellent clarification!
I do to, thats why i threw this together 👍
@MrBowser2012 - I agree. That's what was throwing me off.
Alex - your clarification (in this video) is perfect and helps (me) a lot!
Your willingness to revisit an issue that your audience responds to (which also demonstrates the fact that you actually listen to us!!) is the number three reason I love to watch and trust your videos. The top two reasons are your honest evaluations and content! Your humility and humor help a bunch too!! Thank you, sir!
I just sharpened all my knives with a diamond 400/1000 just like you explained in your videos, they are super sharp, sharper than when I got them from factory. No need for me to go for angle measurements. Your videos provided me with good results and that counts
I never successfully sharpened a knife nor am I fluent at english although I can understand it, and I understood pretty well his explanation, shows how good this guy is at explaining
The honing steel guys are back again!
It was a mistake on my part not making it obvious what i was doing. An easy thing to miss just glancing through the video. 👍
@@OUTDOORS55 Thank you for a great explanation! The difference between good and great is attention to detail. It is obvious you have this attention to detail in your tests and work. Thank you again for all the info and help! I have learned a lot from you and my knives are sharper because of it.
Im using a honing Steel for a 8cr13 Knife i use every day, i haven't sharpened my knife in 2 months... in the past, I sharpened every two weeks
The secret IS to use honing Steel back of the edge , not front...
Just want to chime in and say how much I appreciate the humility displayed here.
You acknowledged the fingers might have obstructed the view, when your vocal explanation was saying exactly what it was supposed to be. I suppose the visual learners struggled with listening, and hence the clarification would help them.
Have always appreciated the pursuit for truth on this channel, and what made this video great was not so much the content, but the inspiring ways CZcamsrs can humbly engage with the hating mob without needing to resort to stupid shaming.
Thank you Alex.
a lot of respect for how you are handling things, I mean peoples, youtube coments etc...
having a good pedagogy is not easy
I felt you were right in the previous video - placing the guide on the flat, i.e. parallel to the centerline, of the blade. But it was a great confirmation to see the wood block as the proof. Well done! And I'm impressed with your humility to shoot another video for those who had questions. That's very uncommon. Thank you.
Thanks, that video was correct i just didn't show it well enough 🙂👍
At first glance, it looked like he measured the angle placing the angle finder in the bevel, which is flat, he did not, he placed it on the ricasso, which is also flat.
He is being a bit confusing in his speech, him saying "the flat portion" means nothing, because they both are flat portions, they are both perfect planes.
Props to him for making this video. Its just an easily confused term.
My thoughts exactly. Thanks for getting there first. 👍
For people who are experienced and seasoned on freehand sharpening something inside says how to hold the given blade against the stone for best results. 🔪
I figured that what you meant in the last video was pretty clear, as demonstrated by the fact that you pointed out that the reason it works just fine for kitchen knives vs not working as intended for (most) other kinds of knife.
Its videos like the last one that made me glad you were the first sharpening channel I found, so I didnt end up with outdated ideas about how to sharpen or what is sharp.
I was one of the ones who commented on the angle - came to say - love your videos! Learned alot from them ! Thank you!
I noticed that too, it's nice to see you update this.
Sir I've been watching your videos and just wanted to thank you for all the info and analysis you've done and shared with the community and people like me who don't have easy access to this kind of knowledge
The explanation we didn't know we needed but love it non the less. Great follow-up!
I thought this was just common sense in your last video, but then again I passed high school geometry. At least you helped them out, Love your videos!
Oh Jesus. I didn’t expect there to be an answer to an answer of an exception in an answer. It was just 8 minutes for me, but I can’t imagine how long it was for you.
Here’s hoping you’re not having to dedicate large swathes of your life in re-explaining the minutia going forward.
Keep being awesome.
Cheers!
This is the best knife nut nerd-out I’ve ever seen! Good work dude! Love your content
As a person freehand sharpening since I was 15 years old. A few decades ago... I can tell you you're dead on. I was able to get hair splitting sharp edges before stropping. After it's be careful time. I'm sure Rocksteads are like that, but I like a little bite. Not a smooth polished edge. Depending on what I'm cutting. Great videos!
Great video! It explained many things to me!
I had misunderstood your previous video and this video helped me understand your previous video correctly😅 it made me have more trust in your videos
Count me as one who misunderstood, thanks for the followup clarification.
Love your sharpening videos.
this is even more confusing to me
Great first video, great follow up video. Thanks for the in depth explanations.
As a very meticulous blade sharpener myself. I have always appreciated your channel. Things that I had theorized about have both been confirmed by you and some have been debunked but one thing I’d like you to touch on is the sharpeners that allow to to select the angle such as the work sharp precision adjust setup. If you chose to sharpen the blade at say 25 degrees and then rotate the blade over and again at 25 degrees your end result would not be a blade with a 25 degree edge it would actually be closer to 50 degrees. If you wanted a true 25 degree edge wouldn’t you set the sharpener at 12.5 degrees for each side to give you a total angle of 25 degrees? Please 🙏 correct me if I’m wrong but it is a beef I’ve had with all predetermined angled sharpeners. Also I’ve wondered that the manufacturers took this into account and the predetermined marked angles are so you do get that end result without having to do any math. Meaning you want 20 degree edge you set to the 20 degree mark and sharpen both sides and the 20 degree mark has already accounted for this difference and when set at 20 the actual angle of the sharpener is 10 degrees so that you end up with the 20 degree edge. Hope I explained my thoughts clearly enough. Looking forward to any feedback from both you and the other viewers.
Thanks for clarifying. Makes a lot of sense.
Top notch effort Alex. Always appreciated!
I saw the first video and thought you were putting it on the bevel and was super confused. Glad you cleared it up
Amazing how you take the time to clarify. I've stopped using the angle guides after you demonstrated the rule of thumb. 😊
Makes complete sense. Good job!
You're doing such great work
You are the "Mr. Science" of Edge-ology. I got the gist of what you were saying the first time, and I think lots of others did too.
Bravo Alex!!!
I'm learning freehand sharpening with your videos and I'm using the guides as help.
When I sharpened a knife without a flat surface and then checked the final angle with a ganiometer, I always got bigger angle than the guide. I checked tons of videos trying to find an explanation and I found nothing.
This week I discovered the cause by myself and today I found your video.
Now, if I want to set 20deg and the primary bevel is 5deg, I choose the 15deg guide.
The Shapton ceramic stons in 1000 and 4000 grit, are really amazing. With those stones I can feel the feedback for the first time. Now It's easier to keep the angle during sharpening. Thanks a lot for the recommendation
That was helpful. Thank you.
I actually enjoyed the detailed explanation. It’s relevant information. 👍
Thanks for the clarification or added 'detail'. I like detail, some don't. But I knew exactly what you were doing and saying in the 1st vid. I even looked up "ricasso" to be sure. So many smart people out there. CZcams brings us all together.
Great update thanks. I bought an angle finder just to check and I use angle guides often cuz I’m picky. Now I know the actual angle I use to freehand sharpen! My Bess test are all under 100 and my sharpest knife is 13.
Thanks for the clarification! Like others I thought you placed the finder on the side of the blade-I didn't even realise it was physically possible to align it with the back/spine/top or whatever one wants to call it.
Can't wait to find out how the pull through sharpener will fit into all of this.
😂😂😂
Thanks for this clarification. The previous video was confusing indeed.
Brilliant explanation!
You’re a good man Charlie Brown.
Not sure what the issue is here but still one of the best sharpening resources out here. Thx
Thanks for doing this one. It answered a lot of related questions that were lingering about on this topic. I had missed the significance of the word "flat" and this cleared it up nicely.
The bevel is also "flat", angles dont change "flatness", it doesnt mean "parallel"
Great vid! After watching I was able to finally get a good edge on my favorite pocket knife. Thanks!
I appreciate your channel and your willingness to share your knowledge with us. At one time you recommended a particular ceramic stone..I bought it, used it, along with a strop and some compound..and my knives are super sharp. As a kid I used to sharpen a knife to cut hair, that was for hunting purposes. These days I just use knives for cooking. Thanks for sharing your knowledge! I always learn something new! I edit to add that as a kid was long ago..fast approaching 60, so long before all this information was available to people via the internet there was the old eyeball approach..and change the angle if needed. Thanks for sharing.
Another good educational video!
I was watching the last video half asleep (as one does on YT) and also misunderstood how to take the measurement. Good clarification, tanks!
Great job, once again!
I appreciate the explanation. You make great videos! It may seem like a small matter to some, but I think the clarification is helpful. Obviously, some were confused.
Thank you for the clarification, I missed that you were on the actual flat section.
Very patient response. During your last video, my first instinct was also "he's doing it wrong" until hearing the words you were saying.
Thank you Alex for your explanation! Yep that’s what I do is finding a sweet spot !
Thats exactly what I thought when igot myself an Adventure Craft Knive. Thick, short and low profile gives the knive a very different angle from the flat part to the center line.
Sharpal has a really cheap ($8) adjustable angle, magnetic, spirit [bubble] level angle finder (Sharpal 194H) that will find the precise angle very easily and it stays on the blade while sharpening. All you have to do is make sure your stone is level (you can use this same tool to do that also) and then try to keep the bubble in the center while sharpening. It's very simple and works very well for people who are worried that they don't have the correct angle or that the bevel isn't symmetrical on both sides..... and for those people, you can thank me later.
really love all the sharpening content man hope to see the Spyderco Sharpmaker on the channel soon. In my experience microbeveling Spyderco's already very slicey grinds creates a semi-scandi type touchup that shaves hair and Removes Minimal Metal
Good clarification 👌
I honestly thought the same thing but didn't say anything and now with this video I feel vindicated. Thanks 😊
Had you just said ‘ricasso’ instead of ‘flat side’ people wouldn’t have lost their ish in the comments lol it’s all good though. Appreciate the clarification for those that didn’t understand what you were showing us.
God bless~
The problem is not all ricasso's are flat🤷♂️ cant win😂
@@OUTDOORS55 yeah true 😂
@@OUTDOORS55 - even your Spiderco seems slightly tapered on the "Ricasso" - giving the 0.25 difference - measure it when the blade is supported on a flat surface - OR rest the knife on its spine measuring the relative vertical angles. - Most knives have spines perpendicular to their "angle xis" - ok, sorry, "many" may be better choice of word than "most"...
A square angle finder can use the vertical sides to great effect in measuring the complementary angle, also using the "zeroing" feature allows relative angles, easy measurement. (Remember, one can never please everyone... Ricasso, Choil, Bolster, Fuller... not terms everyone recognises - education is great, we can all learn to use language better...)
I would have needed another video telling me what a "ricasso" is. 🙂
@@johndonato3638 there’s always Google
Perfect scientific explanation! You´re definitely the coolest Knifeguy on the internet❣
Greetings from Germany, again!💚🤘
As I never use folding knifes, the "flat part" wasn't obvious to me, so the explanation cleared that up. As I sharpen my kitchen knives (all of them flat, or close enough to flat) or my Mora:s , the Sharpal angle guide (free with the stone) actually is useful! I can probably freehand as I get better, but I find it helpful to set a initial angle.
I thought you had put the electronic angle finder on the side of the blade in the previous video. I now realize you are putting the angle finder on the ricasso portion of the knife. My bad and thanks for the clarification with this follow-up video. Good work, Sir!
Great video as always.
Quick question, do you recommend using a kuromaku for magnacut steel?
7:03 I was saying exactly this in my head the whole video. I'm glad you said it. Its the most important part of the video honestly.
I agree, none of it actually matters 😂
Hello, Alex;
I hope your health is good, & you & yours are well.
GREAT video, I for one did not notice when you said on the "FLAT".
So great job straightening out mistakes & misconceptions.
And a GREAT job interacting w/ your viewers, too.
Many 'tubers could take lessons from you on 'how to' interact w/ their viewers.
Have a GREAT day, Neighbor!
Thanks Alex. I do learn things watching your channel. I need to upgrade my sharpening equipment. Who knows, I might even buy one of those angle finders but been sharpening many years without one.
BTW my eyes were starting to glaze over right before you said it.
Alex, you have NEVER been wrong!
... except about tree maintenance to avoid fall damage.
Haha I don't remember saying that?
@@OUTDOORS55 you didn't say it, but you may have been silently incorrect.
... and I have two leaning over my back porch currently, so I shouldn't tempt fate by joking about the subject, lol. Great video as always, bro.
Made sense to me the first time and I thought it was obvious you had to be on the flat part of the blade. Good of you to further explain though.
Nice video as always Alex! Hopefully you keep getting better with your illness and you're able to expand you range of knives more. When you re-open your website could you please sell you diamond compound again, preferably the 6 micron paste, because The compound I bought seems to have a low-ish diamond concentration, if you resold this it would help me very much, thank you!
You could also find the blade bevel angle by putting the bevel on a flat surface and the angle finder on the other side to measure the 4.5 degrees directly.
Great patience demo...😂! 🎉
I watched most of your current videos and more of your less current ones. I do agree your ideas are good. Perfectly correct is an impossible feat no one will achieve. From my crude measurements, it is easier to use blades less affected from compound blade grinds. One I attempted with regular success was using Mora knives that use Scandi grinds. The grind angles are consistent and most always measure 12 degrees more or less a degree of angle.
I believe blade steels all have an optimum angle that will increase them holding a longer lasting sharp edge. That will vary due to steel hardness, blade design and steel composition. It is interesting to explore all the ideas you want. But there so many varied methods and ideas that to say which one is the best is your best guess. Thank you for sharing your ideas with others. 👍
That Klein magnetic angle finder however is very useful for making emt conduit bends on the job site all day with near laser accuracy.
(Since that’s what it’s made for and readily available at Lowe’s for not much dough)
I like the finger method shown in previous videos.
Nice video! Can you benchmark your knives on that sharpness scale people use?
another great video. man, you're a machine!
Your last video was very helpful 🥇
The easiest way to make such guides is to cut it from a plastic card after measuring and marking desired angles on it
Do you have a video on maintaining your whetstone's? Id like to see some of your info on that
Ya' done GOOD, Alex!
@outdoors55 just recently subscribed to your channel. I love your depth in talking about stones, sharpening and the comparison videos I’ve seen. I’m a chef and I like to follow Japanese sharpening angles on most my knives I have a right handed 70/30 ratio to them I can’t get them to be hair shaving sharp but I can manage to go a couple weeks without sharpening while also using my honing rod. What’s a tip to get an offset ratio like that to be hair shaving sharp? I’m really curious about your thoughts on their approach to sharpening knives and their angles.
Just saw your video about your health hope you get well, best wishes brother.
Who ever thought high school trigonometry would ever be useful...lol
Naught from naught leaves naught! 😅 keep up the great work.
Hey can you do a video on possibly the Emerson Commander blade, which has one side flat and the other side has and angle? Mine also has serrated Dragons Teeth on it as well on 1/3 of the blade. Thanks!
I heard you say the flat part of the blade not the bevel. Great job.
Thanks again
Thank you for clarifying. Saying you were putting it on the flat portion still did not tell me that you meant the unbeveled portion as the bevel is also flat. I am a lot less confused now.
My fault, should have shown it better.
I dont know how people got this wrong. I thought you were pretty clear. You said the flat part of the blade not the edge of the blade. I guess it doesn't hurt to clarify things. Thanks for the video.
The issue was getting the FLATS of the blade confused with the flats on the bevel. 👍
Totally unrelated to the video but have you compared the shapton ceramic stones to the spyder co ceramic bench stones?
I was taught to sharpen metals by a toolmaker. He taught much the same lessons you do. A 45 degree edge bevel (90 degree edge) can be razor sharp, if the two sides of the cutting edge meet at an exact , highly polished center point, and in fact some machine cutting edges do just that. Edge angle is always measured to the center line of the tool.
The important stuff is matching the angle to the steel, and to the material being cut. Great series of videos.
(yes, really it is the total angle that matters - machine tools (or woodworking) are rarely symmetrical - often "single bevel". A double bevel knife at 20 degrees is of course a 40 degree edge, - Machine tool edges are more complicated (ductility and hardness comes into play - relief allows depth of cut (controls rubbing - very noticeable in badly tended drill bits)) and rake affects tip pressure and edge longevity - try explaining zero or negative rake to knife folk...)
@@kadmow I try to avoid 3 dimensional explanations to 2 dimensional problems - I haven't thought about the applications of negative rake in years! 😉 Even cabinet scrapers are actually positive, because one is cutting with the burr.
Hey I've been wondering, can you link the microscope you use for looking at the edges? I feel like it could be useful to have something like that. Also, what magnification do you typically use?
Hello what 6 micron diamond stropping compound do you recommend that is in stock right now?
Thought you can align the flat part of the knife with the angle guide face and the center would reference the angle guide.
I have a unique semi-related question.
I have this old knife that had a tanto point, ground it down so I had a straight line from the serration to the tip of the knife, and I plan to practice sharpening on it and making it hair shaving sharp.
Problem is that one part of the new edge line is thicker than the other end, and I'm wondering if I need to do anything special when sharpening, or just be patient while I go.
At my local ace they have a knife sharpening machine youcan use for some amount of money but if you can find one locally you should test one
Its easy to calculate angles from a single position, by you ate laying a blade down that has an angle on and angle, so to try to match whatever you need to reduce the angle of your support
i think the lack of emphasis of the phrase "on the flat side" made the misunderstanding, someone already commented this but i also had the same understanding when i first heard the phrase, since the word "flat" just means 'having a smooth, even surface' and not this part 3:25
people who are not familiar with knives such as myself only thought there's only 1 other side of the knife (which is true in some cases as stated here 3:58 ), we didn't know there's also the "opposite to the other bevel" side of the knife 😂
I did not think that your last video was confusing. You clarified and demonstrated the measurement method with the kitchen knife that had no taper from the spine to behind the edge and showed how that did not work on knives with a taper. I guess the confusion was with your use of "flat portion" or "flat face" of the blade (technically the tapered surfaces are still flat), but it was obvious what you were demonstrating.
If memory serves, you mentioned in the previous video that some knives would need to be disassembled to access the flat. Made sense to me.
@outdoors55 how do you shop for stroping compound by micron?