Too Many Triangles - Numberphile

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  • čas přidán 27. 11. 2016
  • How many triangles are too many? Featuring Henry Segerman from Oklahoma State University.
    More links & stuff in full description below ↓↓↓
    Check Henry's book about 3D printing math: amzn.to/2cWhY3R
    More Henry videos: bit.ly/Segerman_Videos
    Henry's hinged doilies were joint work with Geoffrey Irving (naml.us)
    Support us on Patreon: / numberphile
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    Videos by Brady Haran
    Brady's videos subreddit: / bradyharan
    Brady's latest videos across all channels: www.bradyharanblog.com/
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Komentáře • 603

  • @stormsurge1
    @stormsurge1 Před 7 lety +476

    That looks like the cloth my grandma has on her TV

    • @tomu890
      @tomu890 Před 7 lety +1

      Yes it does xD

    • @sadhlife
      @sadhlife Před 7 lety +4

      crochet? XD

    • @marclarell
      @marclarell Před 7 lety +20

      that's what grandmas do, filling empty areas with wrinkly cloth so it doesn't look empty anymore xD.

    • @legendoftheaflurflur
      @legendoftheaflurflur Před 7 lety

      kkarahodzic l

    • @Apathetish
      @Apathetish Před 7 lety +5

      kkarahodzic it;s a doily

  • @ryPish
    @ryPish Před 7 lety +271

    This is the best and most intuitive way to teach people about hyperbolic surfaces, yay 3D printing!

    • @TunnelDragon44
      @TunnelDragon44 Před 7 lety +5

      I've heard that this one person actually crocheted a hyperbolic surface.

    • @brenorocha6687
      @brenorocha6687 Před 3 lety +3

      If you search "hyperbolic crochet" on youtube you can see some people doing it and even tutorials if you want to make your own.

    • @Triantalex
      @Triantalex Před 8 měsíci

      false.

  • @GelidGanef
    @GelidGanef Před 7 lety +36

    Oh man, I used to draw those little 7-triangle things on my school notebooks!
    Just go out farther and farther from the center, making smaller and smaller triangles just as equilateral as you possibly can. Until suddenly you hit a hard limit and you just cant fit anymore in, or you can't see them anymore because they get too small.
    It makes a cool design. I'd love to have a 3d printed version to play with now.

  • @whatthefunction9140
    @whatthefunction9140 Před 7 lety +59

    *"hyperbolic doily"* is my band's name.

  • @danielstephenson7558
    @danielstephenson7558 Před rokem +3

    Henry has created what I can only describe as the 'forbidden doily'

  • @antoineroquentin2297
    @antoineroquentin2297 Před 6 lety +35

    "Triangles are happier in groups. They're like sheep. They get sad and lonely by themselves"
    --ViHart

  • @ganaraminukshuk0
    @ganaraminukshuk0 Před 7 lety +20

    And here I am thinking about Vihart just saying "triangles" constantly and "hyperbolic doily" takes the cake.

  • @magnusdagbro8226
    @magnusdagbro8226 Před 7 lety +11

    A geodesic dome like that would be a great tool to teach school kids about map projections, and how you can't trust a world map.
    Print a world map on one and place it on a matching sphere so it looks like a globe, then let the kids play with the "carpet" of triangles and see how you can never make it flat without distorting something.

  • @Kram1032
    @Kram1032 Před 7 lety +205

    4:30 sneaky self promotion!

    • @dvoraj20
      @dvoraj20 Před 7 lety +12

      Too bad subliminal messages don't work, and certainly not for QR codes :-D

    • @Nilguiri
      @Nilguiri Před 7 lety +2

      Audrey did it!

    • @unvergebeneid
      @unvergebeneid Před 7 lety +3

      If that ugly dog counts as "promotion"...

    • @totally_not_a_bot
      @totally_not_a_bot Před 7 lety +16

      You can use the period and comma on your keyboard to frame advance. So if you spot something, you can always find it.

    • @Kram1032
      @Kram1032 Před 7 lety

      Timothy Warner that's how I did it

  • @joelshewmaker3567
    @joelshewmaker3567 Před 7 lety +114

    I must say, I didn't expect him to name drop the Triforce.

    • @LinkAranGalacticHero
      @LinkAranGalacticHero Před 7 lety

      me neither! O.O

    • @secularmonk5176
      @secularmonk5176 Před 7 lety +7

      I just came from another math video that name dropped the Triforce when discussing Sierpinski's triangle: title "Binary, Hanoi, and Sierpinski, part 2"

    • @LinkAranGalacticHero
      @LinkAranGalacticHero Před 7 lety

      +Len Arends
      Wow! I'll watch it later, anyway if you're interested in these topics, drop by my channel ^.^

    • @Triantalex
      @Triantalex Před 8 měsíci

      ??.

  • @Snaake42
    @Snaake42 Před 7 lety +10

    The fractal-ish nature of the 7- and 8-triangle surfaces and especially the "geodesic dome" version of the 7-triangle surface reminded me of the way the surface of kale, some other cabbages and lettuce are wrinkled (I think he actually mentioned lettuce earlier on in the video). Another natural approximation of a mathematical concept, much like Romanesco broccoli?

  • @IJustLoveStories
    @IJustLoveStories Před 7 lety +202

    I'd like to put one of those on a little table in a psychologist's waiting room and watch all the OCD patients go mad

  • @Snootypriss
    @Snootypriss Před 6 lety +7

    I like everyone, but Segerman's my favorite numberphile guest. I like how he explains stuff and I like the 3D printing models.

  • @stuartrockin
    @stuartrockin Před 7 lety +139

    Needs more triangles

  • @Hecatonicosachoron
    @Hecatonicosachoron Před 7 lety +24

    You can get closed hyperbolic surfaces, analogous to a sphere. They just have at least two holes in them - but no boundaries.
    You can even tile them with regular polygons, if you feel so inclined. It's a great puzzle to think about! It also comes with profound group theoretical consequences.

    • @dvoraj20
      @dvoraj20 Před 7 lety +2

      Negative curvature everywhere in Euclidean 3-space using intrinsic metric? I would be surprised.

    • @Hecatonicosachoron
      @Hecatonicosachoron Před 7 lety +6

      Jan Dvořák
      I never said in Euclidean 3-space. In Euclidean 4-space or higher.
      It can have negative curvature *almost* everywhere in 3-space as well though.

  • @NA-mg2eb
    @NA-mg2eb Před 2 lety +2

    The idea that keeps going through my head with this is that if you could find some way to keep small miniatures attached (velcro? magnets?) even when the area they're in is crinkled up, then these would make excellent battle mats for Call of Cthulhu

  • @tristanbatchler
    @tristanbatchler Před 7 lety +78

    Who else saw Brady's cheeky snapchat handle half way through?

    • @qwertyman1511
      @qwertyman1511 Před 7 lety +2

      i just did, i wonder why.

    • @FenrizNNN
      @FenrizNNN Před 3 lety +1

      Hmmmmm

    • @alonsomartins712
      @alonsomartins712 Před 2 lety

      Me

    • @MajikkanBeingsUnite
      @MajikkanBeingsUnite Před rokem +1

      Is that what that less-than-half-a-second subliminal thing with the dots and ghost was‽ At 4:29? Even at 0.25× speed it goes by too fast to pause at it!!!

    • @liambohl
      @liambohl Před rokem +1

      On CZcams on desktop, you can use . or , to move forward or back one frame

  • @Kebabrulle4869
    @Kebabrulle4869 Před 7 lety +214

    7 triangles = 420 degrees = TOO HIGH

    • @Xeverous
      @Xeverous Před 7 lety +10

      Truls Henriksson and 6 is 360
      Oh wait 360 meme is because it's 360, it's full turn so naturally many math here will be MLG

    • @pvanukoff
      @pvanukoff Před 7 lety

      :D :D :D

    • @StarTheTripleDevil
      @StarTheTripleDevil Před 5 lety +4

      360 noscope + Dorito = high
      MLG math

    • @sawyer8297
      @sawyer8297 Před 3 lety

      nice

    • @Triantalex
      @Triantalex Před 8 měsíci

      false.

  • @MultiSteveB
    @MultiSteveB Před 7 lety +51

    3-5 = "spheres"
    6 = "plane"
    7-8 = "quantum foam model"?

    • @explosu
      @explosu Před 7 lety +9

      Hey, that's what I started to think about :D you poke it in one spot, it crinkles up in another. Sounds an awful lot like a complimentary variable in physics.

    • @user-jc2lz6jb2e
      @user-jc2lz6jb2e Před 4 lety +2

      7+ is pringles

    • @samuelthecamel
      @samuelthecamel Před 4 lety +3

      12 = "oh no"

  • @tibimose823
    @tibimose823 Před 7 lety +2

    I finally found out why in my grandma's time, there was a hype with "mileuri" (it's a romanian word for something that looks like the 6 triangle flat one, that you put on furniture for decoration). The fascination with maths was real

  • @ffggddss
    @ffggddss Před 7 lety +13

    How deep in the cheek was the tongue of whoever wrote this part? :
    "Henry's *hinged* doilies were *joint* work ..."

    • @rewrose2838
      @rewrose2838 Před 3 lety

      😂 the description section contains some interesting nuggets

  • @Milehupen
    @Milehupen Před 7 lety +197

    when i was 7 years old i stubled upon this problem while playing with geomag xD

    • @Platanov
      @Platanov Před 7 lety +24

      Me too, with those buckyball magnets (but I was like 27)

    • @phibsie6494
      @phibsie6494 Před 7 lety +1

      Milehupen me too!!!

    • @failatlife1
      @failatlife1 Před 7 lety +6

      Welp, time to go digging through my closet for my geomags.

    • @AidenOcelot
      @AidenOcelot Před 7 lety +1

      Do you still use them? If not why!? Those things are fun!

    • @Triantalex
      @Triantalex Před 8 měsíci

      ??.

  • @AaronRClark
    @AaronRClark Před 7 lety

    I had just come back to watching numberphile after a 6 month hiatus. I enjoy this Henry Segerman.

  • @robertbauer499
    @robertbauer499 Před 7 lety

    one of my favorite videos from Numberphile

  • @null1449
    @null1449 Před 7 lety +1

    I don't know why but I love when numberphile uploads videos about geometry

  • @edibletwix
    @edibletwix Před 7 lety +23

    3:07 sums up my friends at school and my life.. 😓

  • @AlanKey86
    @AlanKey86 Před 7 lety +7

    "Sub-divide it into 4 like a TRIFORCE."Epic Yes.

  • @adizmal
    @adizmal Před 5 lety +1

    This video in particular, going back and watching it again, something is clicking. I understand a bit more about hyperbolic geometry from this video alone than I have fleetingly glimpsed before.

  • @WondrousHello
    @WondrousHello Před 7 lety +20

    There's a snapchat code at 4:30, I added it. Do I win?

  • @zlac
    @zlac Před 7 lety +1

    You can do this quite nicely in software called "magic tiles", it's a software that does all sorts of Rubik's cube equivalents in all kinds of spaces, even hyperbolic, really nice stuff!

  • @Rurexxx
    @Rurexxx Před 7 lety +1

    This guy is a 3D printing wizard. Seriously, what a skill and knowledge!

  • @SpyridonJohn1633
    @SpyridonJohn1633 Před 5 lety +1

    "What is this!?" feckin hilarious!

  • @HontubeYT
    @HontubeYT Před rokem +1

    3:13 Is my favourite moment in the video as it gets me laughing everytime.

  • @qwertyTRiG
    @qwertyTRiG Před 7 lety +8

    As Vi Hart could tell you, there's no such thing as "too many triangles".

  • @911gpd
    @911gpd Před 7 lety +14

    The answer is -1/12

  • @ricardoabh3242
    @ricardoabh3242 Před 7 lety +2

    Best platonic explanation that I have saw!

  • @nerdbot4446
    @nerdbot4446 Před 7 lety +15

    Where can I buy these doilys? You can never have enough triangles on your table

  • @davidq.1321
    @davidq.1321 Před 7 lety +1

    Hey Brady, can you make a video on how to go about solving a mathematical problem and how to go about proving theorems?

  • @dogwithsocks
    @dogwithsocks Před 7 lety

    Real pleasure to meet the man at my university after his presentation!

  • @DKQuagmire
    @DKQuagmire Před 5 lety

    The Zelda in me almost jumped out of my seat when you said the word "Triforce". Awesome.

  • @ody10able
    @ody10able Před 6 lety +2

    You can never have enough triangles, Vihart is the proof.

  • @ConorFenlon
    @ConorFenlon Před 7 lety

    This effect is yielded very easily when crocheting in the round. Just keep adding increases at a given point in the round and you end up with this "hyperbolic plane" styled piece of material. There's a TED talk about crocheting hyperbolic planes :)

  • @hiimapop7755
    @hiimapop7755 Před 5 lety

    This is awesome.

  • @neoqueto
    @neoqueto Před 7 lety +3

    This made me understand the problem of curvature of space.

  • @nahailyenvanakkor
    @nahailyenvanakkor Před 7 lety +5

    2:56 I'm pretty sure a hydraulic press would do the job...

    • @Kaiveran
      @Kaiveran Před 3 lety

      Unfortunately it wouldn't work past a certain point. Something would either break or distort, depending on the flexibility/toughness of the material

  • @Nixitur
    @Nixitur Před 7 lety +16

    I appreciated that Zelda reference.

  • @scowrules
    @scowrules Před 7 lety

    I'm in love with the hyperbolic doily.

  • @meesvandenberg9468
    @meesvandenberg9468 Před 2 lety

    4:36 you can't wrap the world with that. That's what he just explained

  • @feynstein1004
    @feynstein1004 Před 7 lety

    I love topology. Helps me understand GR.

  • @totally_not_a_bot
    @totally_not_a_bot Před 7 lety +2

    There's a game that you play on a hyperbolic plane! It's called HyperRogue, it's super fun, and it's available on all platforms. Best part? You can get it without the music so it takes up a single megabyte of space, three on mobile, as compared to around fifty with the music. And it's huge! Makes my brain hurt a little, though.

  • @TheLolle97
    @TheLolle97 Před 7 lety

    numberphile can still blow my mind. at least a little bit :)

  • @kenjinks5465
    @kenjinks5465 Před 2 lety +1

    With the >6 triangles on a vertex. Would the edges fold into an iterative function system such as the Koch snowflake, Hilbert or Dragons curve?

  • @invictus127
    @invictus127 Před 7 lety

    I like the usage of a triforce in the explanation.

  • @gigglysamentz2021
    @gigglysamentz2021 Před 7 lety

    These are great ! :'D

  • @orbik_fin
    @orbik_fin Před 7 lety

    3:34 Yes, lettuce - first thing that came to my mind.

  • @ughsomenonsense
    @ughsomenonsense Před 7 lety +2

    5:51 does anybody know where I could read more about this open problem, like the name of the problem or the current research on it?

  • @flamencoprof
    @flamencoprof Před 7 lety

    So, if you add more layers of the seven one, using ideal one-dimensional sides, the outer edge becomes a 3D space-filling curve, (Hilbert curve?) which might or might not run into itself at some limiting number of layers?

  • @thecoolcongle5128
    @thecoolcongle5128 Před měsícem

    Drinking game: take a shot every time he says "Triangle"

  • @jesserivera9144
    @jesserivera9144 Před 7 lety

    Have you done Fermat's Last Theorem? I'd love to have the answer explained.

  • @Stickycomix
    @Stickycomix Před 6 lety

    "What is this trying to be?"
    Too relatable.

  • @Henrix1998
    @Henrix1998 Před 7 lety +2

    Simplest solution to Pythagoras: 3 4 5 and those are the possible shapes too

  • @secularmonk5176
    @secularmonk5176 Před 7 lety +1

    I think Hyperbolic Doily's second album was their magnum opus ... after that they got too big and started getting in their own way.

  • @grahams5871
    @grahams5871 Před 7 lety +1

    What is the canonical folding of a surface made with 7 triangles? The floppy doily shape isn't right. The saddle shape is clearly better: A half-circle up, and a cross-wise half circle down. But the stuff at 45 degrees needs work. Do you need to make cuts to make the material end up in the right place? Do you need infinitely many cuts? What does the resulting shape look like?

  • @zzasdfwas
    @zzasdfwas Před 7 lety

    There's a game called hyperrogue which is a sort of puzzle game on hyperbolic space. very cool.

  • @ianflanagan8744
    @ianflanagan8744 Před 7 lety

    They should make a vid about arcimeadian solids, goldberg polyhedra, as well as cantalating and stelating said solids.

  • @AliHSyed
    @AliHSyed Před 7 lety

    wow this is a brilliant way to understand the curvature of the Universe.

  • @TheSmegPod
    @TheSmegPod Před 2 lety +1

    "huh, the way the triangles have to get smaller and smaller to fit the further out it goes kinda reminds me of a hyperbolic plane"
    30 seconds later

  • @ratoim
    @ratoim Před 7 lety

    0:39 *feels inspired to make a doily*

  • @anetahajkova1336
    @anetahajkova1336 Před 7 lety

    Cool, I used to play with shapes like these when I was a kid, I was making them with triangles from a building kit.

  • @LupeFenrir
    @LupeFenrir Před 7 lety

    This helped me understand negative curvature.

  • @garrett3883
    @garrett3883 Před 7 lety

    hay Do you remember The 3x+1 problem? well I was messing around on my calculator and I think I found a similar problem. It has 3 rules. If even dived by 2, If divisible by 3 dived by 3, IF the number isn't divisible by 2 or 3 the multiply by 5 and add 1. do this and It always seems to get stuck at the loop 6, 3, 1, 6, 3, 1. Or depending on If you divided by 3 or 2 first 6 ,2, 1, 6, 2, 1. I've tried tones of numbers and I can't find anyone that brakes this rule. I've tried huge numbers too like 54673.

  • @sullygrowel1574
    @sullygrowel1574 Před 7 lety

    Could you maybe do a video on 'Knight's Tours'?

  • @rhubarbcheese
    @rhubarbcheese Před 7 lety

    Do a video on the lagrangian equation and what it could help solve, how it connects with the particle accelerator and so on please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • @Radditz770
    @Radditz770 Před 10 měsíci

    I would've thought that you'd Want the hyperbolic surface to go into itself and form a closed shape. Because then, even if it curves the "wrong way", wouldn't it still count as a platonic solid? All vertices have the same amount of triangles on them?

  • @GraveUypo
    @GraveUypo Před 7 lety

    that 6 sided mesh has got to be on the top 5 most frustrating toys ever list

  • @_brutalistsbible_5049
    @_brutalistsbible_5049 Před 7 lety

    What would happen if you subdivided each of the triforce triangles into four again and again, for an infinite number of times? I know that with each iteration, the triangles would become increasingly less equilateral, but would the sheet tend towards a structure with zero curvature overall? How many times could you subdivide before the constituent triforce shapes became unworkably distorted?

  • @midvvolf
    @midvvolf Před 7 lety

    could you make some sort of toroid or loop with the negative curve?

  • @anthonycannet1305
    @anthonycannet1305 Před 7 lety +1

    If it saddles, the top parts would extend along a curve eventually meeting up. Then if you extend the other sides outward along this curve they would also meet up making a torus shaped object. In theory...

  • @chasemarangu
    @chasemarangu Před 6 lety +1

    neat how the hyperbolic stuff _can_ be organized into a saddle

  • @superpasi7315
    @superpasi7315 Před 7 lety +3

    "This Traingle is too much to handle" RIP Zyzz always be mirin'

  • @LordOfFlies
    @LordOfFlies Před 7 lety +7

    All these squares make a circle

  • @WintermuteVR
    @WintermuteVR Před 7 lety

    Can you do a spot on the moving sofa problem?

  • @audreyrasmussen540
    @audreyrasmussen540 Před 7 lety

    I saw Oklahoma State University in the description...
    And then I cried a little inside

  • @E1craZ4life
    @E1craZ4life Před 5 lety

    What happens if you do 5 squares around each vertex? Or 4 pentagons around each vertex?

  • @philipsalter934
    @philipsalter934 Před 7 lety

    Interesting that it forms a saddle. Can you extend it to become a torus??

  • @goodstormsgames9744
    @goodstormsgames9744 Před rokem

    That's sooo cool. I want crinkle triangles

  • @JustinVZyl
    @JustinVZyl Před 3 lety

    So if 17 would that then be again positive curvature meaning it would form a closed surface like two spheres but perpendicular to each other?

  • @Fasteroid
    @Fasteroid Před 7 lety

    Part of me wonders if as you continued the saddle if it would loop back into itself and create a torus kind of shape

  • @Galdring
    @Galdring Před 7 lety +2

    They look like something you grandmother would knit.

    • @SimonClarkstone
      @SimonClarkstone Před 7 lety

      HarbourOfMarbles there are crocheting patterns available for hyperbolic surfaces.

  • @michaelmcdonnell7716
    @michaelmcdonnell7716 Před 7 lety

    is there a way the rhino/stl files to 3d can be shared so we can do these experiments at home?

  • @GarryDumblowski
    @GarryDumblowski Před 7 lety

    I may be wrong about this, but the exponential f(x) = e^x actually seems to beat the cubic g(x) = x^3. It takes a while, but I'm fairly certain it means that you could theoretically expand this far enough and it might eventually exceed that mark, and suddenly, you could extend it outward forever.

  • @Wargon2013
    @Wargon2013 Před 7 lety +2

    3D printing is quite amazing

  • @Miitchyy
    @Miitchyy Před 7 lety

    It would be really pleasing to see Henry create the surface which it could laid "flat" upon. i.e. Every triangle being tangent to the surface.

    • @henryseg
      @henryseg Před 7 lety +2

      I tried pretty hard to make something like this - there are some serious problems. First, it's hard to make a smooth surface with constant negative curvature that has much area - the hinged surfaces have a lot of area in comparison to things like the pseudosphere. Second, the triangles of a geodesic dome are all inside of the circumscribing sphere, while the triangles of these hinged surfaces want to be intersecting a smooth constant negative curvature surface. Which makes it hard to put them together in real life.

  • @mikejones-vd3fg
    @mikejones-vd3fg Před 7 lety

    The open question seems to be about the planc length basically isn't it? Like using 2d triangles, how many could you fit, youd have to know the thickness , so whats the minimum thickness and that's youre limit to whatever size you can grow that ball too without it crashing. This problem wouldn't be hard to simulate on a graphics engine using 2d polygons - triangles no?

  • @johnbatsch7938
    @johnbatsch7938 Před 7 lety +14

    Bradyharen is the snapchat username that flashes on the screen for one second at 4:30. Just to save other people time trying to get it.

    • @syaba2327
      @syaba2327 Před 7 lety

      actually, it's bradyharan not bradyharen

  • @t0m_mcc
    @t0m_mcc Před 7 lety

    Keep trying to catch glimpses of that awesome shirt

  • @WiseSquash
    @WiseSquash Před 7 lety +16

    6:35 Triforce

    • @gold4963
      @gold4963 Před 7 lety

      Omar Velázquez That was awesome!

  • @tristenarctician6910
    @tristenarctician6910 Před 4 lety

    How do you simulate hyperbolic space in the source engine
    In guessing you use world portals but that's only in portal 2

  • @Geekyandproudofit
    @Geekyandproudofit Před 7 lety

    is it possible to get or purchase 3d models or physical representations of the various hyperbolic doilies?

    • @kupopo1
      @kupopo1 Před 7 lety +1

      It's not quite as high-tech as 3d printing, but you can pretty easily crochet hyperbolic doilies by crocheting in the round and increasing (putting multiple stitches into a single stitch) fairly often. Margaret Wertheim has been doing this for years.

  • @JaviEngineer
    @JaviEngineer Před 7 lety

    That fast SnapChat of bradyharan with a little Chihuahua (Chee-hoo-uh-hoo-uh) dog at 4:30 .