2E: When Giftedness and ADHD mask each other
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- I've been asked a lot about twice-exceptionality, or 2E, recently and especially on how to identify ADHD when giftedness is also involved.
* Recorded from Livestream for Embracing Intensity Podcast ep. 153*
In this episode:
~ Characteristics observed in people who are both gifted and ADHD.
~ Characteristics that may be common with giftedness, but are even more extreme when ADHD is thrown in.
~ Assessment patterns I've observed with kids with ADHD.
Links:
Podcast Episode 153:
www.aurorareme...
Embracing Intensity Community: www.embracingintensity.com
Brendan Mahan's ADHD Essentials: www.adhdessentials.com
Always knew I was gifted and did extremely well in school, but always struggled with ADHD symptoms that I didn't know were ADHD symptoms. And did so well in school because of my giftedness that ended up contributing to my struggles because I could wait until the last minute for projects and still get an A, I could daydream in class all day and learn on my own time. Recently was diagnosed and told that yes, essentially my ADHD was masked by my test scores and school performance. Has been an immense relief to understand why I struggle so much and how I can manage it better.
This was exactly me!
Exactly me. I was tested for gifted and talented and I remember not being able to focus on the questions and ultimately didn't get into the program, years later at 20 i was diagnosed with adhd. Something like that was never suggested to me bc I did so well in school, but with little effort.
I grew up "twice-blessed" in the 1970s... among the approaches used on me: put in a refrigerator box at the back of the room, put out in the hall, my desk put next to the teacher, facing the rest of the class, being made the butt of the teachers' jokes... this was what passed for... actually, not sure what they thought they were doing. My diagnosis: _lazy_ and _unwilling._
Unfortunately, I will never be what I might have become what I would have had I been born 10 years later.
I'm not sure why I missed this notification, but I'm so sorry you had to experience that misunderstanding! We've come a long way in education, but have a long way to go!
Now is the good time to use your abilities, with the help you can get nowadays. It is never too late to bloom.
Born in 1950, I got dinged regularly for not paying attention, not following instructions, and not getting homework done. No refrigerator box (barbaric!) but put out in the hall by my 6th grade teacher who told me “you’re a day late and a dollar short and you always will be.” Still I learned quickly and got good grades so my parents saw me as bored and a bit lazy. Graduated with honors, Stanford scholarship, then flunked out freshman year because there were so many interesting things to learn and do that I didn’t manage to attend classes, do homework, or finish papers.
The next 50 years were a roller coaster of achieving success and falling flat. Therapy and productivity coaching didn’t seem to help much. Finally at age 70 I was diagnosed with ADHD (inattentive). Two years later I’m still unable to come to terms with the diagnosis and all those “lost years.” Of course they weren’t lost, but inconsistency, impulsiveness, failed businesses, and ADHD tax losses have left me with very few resources for retirement and an image of myself as someone who should have been able to do better. Grief, shame, and anger at all those years of therapy where I was diagnosed as depressed, given SSRIs (not a good choice for ADHD), and told that I needed to work on my motivation, without any clue about where motivation comes from and how do I find it. I know there’s no point in wishing I’d been diagnosed earlier, but I can’t help but wonder how different my life might have been.
i'm a teenager diagnosed with giftedness when i was around 8 or so, and i've been doing a lot of research on 2e giftedness and adhd because i think my giftedness masked what could be adhd a lot when i was younger, and i'm seeing it more and more in myself, ESPECIALLY with what you said about making urgent deadlines enforced by others but struggling with my own projects. i also definitely struggle with time blindness
it sure does make everything more confusing for getting an adhd diagnosis (especially when i have straight a grades so doctors sometimes don't understand how i feel like it's impairing me), so thank you for this!
the only thing i don't REALLY struggle with is detail (my giftedness is highest in patterns so i'm good with grammar, punctuation editing) (though sometimes i find even though i am strong in math i miss little simple details that mess up my equations!) but that may just be because i find it a challenge that my brain locks into. i'm not sure if it's that or if it's not 2e and it drives me nuts
That sounds very similar to my experience. What I found as I got older is the systems of urgency I used to get things done took a toll on my health, so that's how I explained the negative impact.
The important thing is finding providers who have familiarity in giftedness and don't immediately dismiss possible diagnosis based on outer achievements. They have to look at the day to day living as well and other ways it may impact you.
I feel that a big part of the problem is that our culture bases so much worth on "achievement" but don't look at the costs behind achieving, or what it will take to keep up long term or as things demand more executive functioning skills.
@@EmbracingIntensity just saw this but thank you so much for your reply! i'm attempting to go into a doctor again with those considerations in mind and i appreciate this a lot!
@@clairepinckney416 CZcams notifications are weird! I miss a lot! Glad it was helpful. :)
6:30 mins in and OMFG you’re LITERALLY describing me!!
I was reading novels at age six. Bored to death in school, talked my head off all day but got really good grades (except math). Needed 3 attempts to graduate college but when I did, it was with the highest possible grades across the board. Even got invited to be a regular guest lecturer at the college.
Ramping up my anxiety and setting the bar ridiculously high for myself has been the only way for me to have any academic success as an adult. Not really healthy though.. But yes, I guess being smart masked my ADHD for 35 years until I suddenly saw my life for what it was. Just a constant cycle of "try harder to be normal" and live in a constant state of overwhelm, then burnout, then back to making new plans for how to be better at normal. (Plus the scary levels of forgetfulness, disorganization, chronic insomnia and feeling like I had to be productive every second of the day)
Thanks for sharing! I totally get that! Only getting stuff done with urgency is exhausting and hard to recover from.
My story is quite similar. I had been a straight A student all my life, it'd not take me much time to learn stuff...I daydreamed alooooooot , was never really there. I'd never know what is going on in the class, I'd have no idea what is going on in the class as other kids did..
I was EXTREMELY talkative and expressive.. but I was still a go getter... my parents were really like, go go why aren't you as good as my colleagues' kids still, never satisfied with our performance.
So I put sooo much pressure on myself, I wanted to top now.... That pressure was too much, I would stress myself out, that then made ADHD type symptoms come up , I would get Extremely fidgety(I think this fidgetiness is a symptom bcoz kids don't know how to relieve their stress any other way , so their mind gets distracted from one place to another, coz the stress of work is huuge... I mean, I even topped once, I went to my dream college, but the second day I got depressed when it struck me how BORING it really is, as compared to how I'd thought of it .. the inattention had become quite huuge then , coz I think there's only a limit to how much you can burden yourself with expectations, there always comes a saturation point if you keep grinding yourself .
But hey, I realised I was so much talented than I had ever thought myself to be... Maybe that's why I was never enjoying studies ever(even though I scored good)... I realized I'm a pretty good actor, I can mimic ppl, I am a natural singer, also I can sing in many singers voices like modulate my voice accordingly, I now have soooo many passions, I wanna start embroidery painting designing acting music , lol but this inattentive nature keeps distracting from it all.
Also, I realized I have NO interest in basic worldly practical subjects like business, management, law etc ...which I've been pursuing always :(
Thanks for sharing! I can relate to much of your story as well. I'm glad you are connecting with your strengths!
Can relate. With you on so much. It's almost like finding your own community.❤️
I agree I don’t want to be challenged because I don’t like extra work, but I love when I’m challenged because I get to see how awesome I am.
This is why I tend to differentiate "work" from "challenge," but which we see as which is greatly variable!
In my thesis jury last year I was said you did a big picture project but missed out the details. All my life I was said I am very smart and will go places by teachers. And sometime told that I am smart but I don't work hard by my other. Yet bullied by my one thesis teacher that I am not working as hard as I could and verbally abused. Never knew I had Adhd recently learning about it. I always felt different all my life in ways of thinking. Speeding thoughts , multidimensional conversation which sometimes people don't understand(who has less knowledge about the topic) and sometimes people are amazed by those conversations. Things sometimes get messy and need to organize thing multiple times which seems hard.
I'm sorry you're experiences have been invalidated! People often don't understand how really smart people can find things they find "basic" so difficult, but it's often the "basic" stuff we find most difficult because it doesn't engage our brains!
@@EmbracingIntensity True. I many times questioned myself that why these basic things were such a difficult task for me to do but had no answers and blamed myself that it my fault. But now I know it needs mental stimulation as a big challenge and a reward system by rewarding after completion of task. Wish I knew this earlier.
I’ve been misdiagnosed with Asperger’s in the past.. this sounds much more like me. 🙏
I'm learning a lot more about those with both Autism & ADHD and it presents much differently than the stereotypes, but I can also see how adding giftedness in there can muddy the waters even more!
@@EmbracingIntensity it’s really confusing.. the last tests I did found only giftedness. But they’re obviously missing something, because the challenges I face in my normal life are real. The ability to perform well in tests because of the pressure/immediate motivation seems to explain part or it.
@@amaralcaio Unfortunately too many clinicians don't really understand the intersection of giftedness and disability. But even in non-gifted students I've tested, attention issues don't always show up in the 1:1 testing setting. That's why it's important to look at a variety of measures including self-report.
can you talk about learning disabilities masking giftedness! I went for so long believing i was stupid when actually, my SLD was masking my smart side.
Scott Barry Kaufman has a fantastic book called "Ungifted" that does a great job talking about this!
Thank you!!!
5:35 Does that mean that the potentials become bigger?
I think often with ADHD plus giftedness, the gap between potential and reality can be even bigger!
All and nothing thinking. Wish I knew about it before in life. Would be able to deal with life better.
I hear that!
You said something about a blog. Can I get a link. I see a link in comments to the podcast but not the blog. Thx!
Oh yes! My blog is also on my website at auroraremember.com :)
I'm gifted and suspect I may have ADHD. Do you have any recommendations on where to ask (or even call, I'd make the effort) to access professional opinion on my particular case? (Btw, how do I find your blog post on this topic?)
My website currently is auroraremember.com and I have a section under the "about" tab on Twice Exceptionality. Working on transitioning to embracingintensity.com which is currently just my community.
@@EmbracingIntensity Thanks a lot, I'll take a look! :)
I was gifted once... Worst forced labor ever...
Unfortunately many folks confuse giftedness with achievement when they are not the same thing!