Yugioh Player Tries To Guess How Good MTG Cards Are w/
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- čas přidán 6. 08. 2024
- Yugioh player IgnisKidd joins the show trying to guess how good MTG cards are!
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#mtg #yugioh #mtga - Hry
"I hit them with the 'No'- but in blue"
this guy is a master already
Every blue player lives for the “hit them with the ‘no’ maneuver” 😅
Immediately I think his underlying logic for Pack Rat being bad is "it's not gonna live to see it grow to a board of multiple, hard-hitting rats because no game lasts past turn 3" especially with how combat differs in MTG and Yugioh where you attack the player and the rat player is basically paying life to keep their rat alive.
also yugi-oh has a limit of 5 creatures so the rats couldn't get that big
@@devforfun5618 If it were to be turned into a Yugioh card it would probably be something more like, it gets 500 attack for each Rat.
@@TheJadeFist Maby even 1000, to adjust for the max number of creatures and the limit on summons each round. First round you get 1 1000/1000, second 2 2000/2000 and third 3 3000/3000. Still not so impressive with decks that are able to pull out anything by that time.
I think it's a combination of two things. One is, indeed, as you said, that yugioh games tend to last way fewer turns than MTG games.
But another thing is that IgnisKidd started from the assumption that Pack Rat is meant to be a swarm deck/aggro deck card, rather than what it ended up being used for (a control deck card. I mean arguably MBC was on the midrangish side of control decks but it was still essentially a deck that tried to survive to lategame moreso than trying to keep up in value at every point in the curve). And, indeed, back when Pack Rat was in standard, aggro decks that had black in them *did* exist, and did *not* run Pack Rat.
tbh, pack rat is not good. Nobody cares, it's gonna be removed easily, it doesn't have trample or any other abilities.
People are playing crazy combos and avalanches of spells, and you come up with a pack rat.... bruh nah it's not doing it xD
I think for someone who literally doesn’t know magic at all he had some pretty solid analysis of the cards.
I agree!
Yeah, I have seen a few Yugioh players like that for these kinds of videos, and the same for Mtg players analyzing Yugioh cards. I think the skills you learn for both transfer over pretty well because although different games in multiple ways, they share a lot of the same kind of mindset and fundamentals. I think the biggest difference between mtg and Yugioh is Mtg has mana costs and in Mtg you can't directly attack a creature while in Yugioh you can't attack the player with a monster in play. That and how the stack in Mtg works compared to how the chain works in Yugioh.
Yu-Gi-Oh is basically an abridged version of magic the gathering
@@haruhisuzumiya6650 maybe in the absolute loosest sense sure but I would never make that assertion. Like they’re both card games that have very fundamental things in common but past that they actually function quite differently as far as tcgs go. I just think the knowledge required to be successful at both games allows you to ask yourself the right questions to figure it out at a basic level. I don’t think it’s the mechanics themselves that transfer, it’s the method a good player utilizes to become good.
It might sound like splitting hairs but I genuinely think there’s a huge difference between possessing the skills that a good player possesses and having the overarching ability quickly identify what that skill set could or should look like.
@@SDREHXC But yugioh literally is a simpler rip-off of MTG xD Takahashi invented it for his manga, it was never planned to be a real game.
Fun fact: One With Nothing did get included in the sideboard of a deck in a major tournament once. It was probably wrong but there was a real matchup where someone looked at the card and thought that it might be helpful in the matchup.
It was in a very low power standard that featured a stun deck called Owling Mine that played a lot of Howling Mine type effects that caused both players to draw multiple extra cards a turn, and several bounce cards for your opponent's lands so they weren't able to play their cards. The win condition of the deck was Ebony Owl Netsuke, which did a big chunk of damage to your opponent each turn if they had 7+ cards in their hand at the start of turn. The logic was if you ever get into a situation where Owling Mine is set up, you can use One With Nothing to discard your hand, buying you several turns of not taking damage to the Owl. This meant you had some chance to rebuild and come back.
It was almost certainly not even the right way to try to beat Owling Mine (it was obviously better to just get on board as fast as possible and kill them before they can get set up), but there was some actual reason to sideboard the card as a non-meme.
That is straight up hilarious
If it were Extended or further, I'd have used Rites of Initiation instead.
Well if there are cards that say if this card is sent to the grave yard summon it instead it could flood your fiels.. sorry idk magic lol
@@doubleduece2012 Yeah there are a few cards like that and there are a lot stronger ways to discard. Like there's a lot of very cheap cards that are not terrible on their own and also let you discard to get some upside, this just happened to be an extremely low power standard format without other good options to discard your own cards.
If it's just to counter the Ebony Owl Netsuke, i would just side in Ivory Crane Netsuke at that point to counter the damage while the opponent possibly shoots themselves with their own owl.
Always love to see yugioh players look at magic cards
Same!
As a yugioh player with no magic exposure myself this is very interesting
It is always the most ludicrous viewpoints, and don't get me wrong, I got into Magic From Yu-Gi-Oh! But I never had to view cards in the void, like this, and as someone who went into magic for the absolute degenerate combos, these days I look at Yu-Gi-Oh! and go if MTG cards were this broken... but when I came to MTG I viewed it without bias, learning the rules, and then bam. $10K later I stopped playing, so that I can save up money for a deposit on a house...
I got into mtg not to long ago...... It's just like yugioh but probably worse.... No hand Traps to save me but I am playing a budget Bernard build 😭😭😭😭😭😭
Same here. And I enjoy seeing mtg players look at Yugioh cards. Having played both for many years, it's fun seeing them use the terms from the game they play when analyzing cards for the other game and seeing how similar the minds work when analyzing cards. Some things are true I think for any card game, like the obvious one that cheating things into play is very good. Drawing more cards is very good.
Pack Rat: I will end you. If I fail, my children will succeed me, and you will know our pack wrath
LOL
Honestly with how quickly he grasped magic color variance and resource management I feel like he would be a devastatingly competent pro player
mtg players are the only ones that have trouble comprehending other card games for some reason
def not true lmao
A YGO player evaluating Pack Rat is hliarious.
Since they don't *really* have a concept of Limited, there's no way to even have one THINK that Pack Rat could be one of the 5 best Limited cards of all time.
What was the win percentage with a deck using Pack Rat and 39 Swamps that just mulligans until it finds Pack Rat? Like 50% or some shit?
@@nekrataali I don't know, but I've done it once and I did 3-0. Straight up absurdity.
He called Magic Cards silly. He hasn't even seen the ACTUALLY silly cards.
But he HAS seen One with Nothing, which is a start 🤣
Isn't there rulings on unfinity cards minus the latest set
Next Time: Silver Border sets!
Justice for Pack Rat, the funniest card to ever rat.
Pack rat is such a legitimate threat in any cube/draft format, and is even a bit of a menace in constructed formats
37:29 "I think magic calls it tutoring right" Magic INVENTED the word tutoring in the context of card games.
Magic didnt invent shit, the playerbase invents the lingo. Thats why its called EDH and not commander.
@ich3730 First of all, only boomers call it EDH, second of all, typical magic player arguing pedantics. Obviously it was implied I meant that the community calls it something based on the context of the clip.
@@armitroner I think you mean semantics my guy. Also I'm a Magic boomer and I say Commander and EDH interchangeably mainly with Commander since that's what most people call it now. People adapt, and the players who purposefully say EDH are likely calling that as an f you at Wizards.
Back in my day, Belcher was a 1 land deck with Land Grant and a bunch of rituals instead. Silly times.
Those were the days
I've seen it in the sideboard of One Land Spy as a swap out just to basically steal game 2
One With Nothing, I remember when Kamigawa came out and we saw this card and thinking "there has to be some combo with this" but then you don't have a hand to do any combos...
One With Nothing suffers from there being better discard outlets for one or less mana when it was printed. Formats with viable graveyard strategies have always had Lion's Eye Diamond, Firestorm, Putrid Imp, etc. that make OWN redundant.
I think if you made a Standard set with Dredge and made OWN the only discard outlet in the set, then yeah, it'd probably be good. But Dredge is like an 11 on the Storm Scale, up there with banding, regeneration, and artifact lands.
I feel like most MTG players James has had on, know a similar amount about Yu-gi-oh as Ignis knows about magic. It was cool to get to see a real first reaction like those MTG players had to yu-gi-oh! Seeing the mana cost and saying it was "undead type" really set a tone early xD. Also "Doom mana" instead of black is creative. Imagine if we had; Doom, Pride, Curiosity, Passion, and Vigor, instead of color words. Would be kinda sick, no?
That would be super sick!
Wait, that isnt a thing already?!
@@Igniskidd nope!
The whole point of the color wheel is that its very flexible. There is only so many ways to design a "proud" card or a "curious" card. There is however endless ways to interpret the color white, or blue.
Pack Rat might be the strongest limited card of all time. Certainly it's the only one where "just run 39 lands and this card" was ever considered as potentially viable. :D
only real problem with that is needing to consistently get to the card early on enough, as well as having a plan for protection/recovery in case something goes wrong earlier on in the game.
there are a few legendary creatures that you can reasonably do this with in EDH xD
What about lost in the woods?😊
Pack Rat is up there, but I think Umezawa's Jitte is stronger. A turn one Sol Ring is basically unbeatable in Limited unless the other player has multiple Moxen or Black Lotus (that still might not be enough). And the bullshit mono-black deck in Urza's Saga with Pestilence was nuts. It was bad enough that black had Dark Ritual, Exhume, Priest of Gix, etc. but then to have Pestilence at common meant you got multiple Wraths.
This Yu-gi-oh player is sharp as a tack. Props to his analytical thinking skills.
Thanks
@@Igniskiddyou definitely have the potential to be a very good mtg player cause I haven’t seen someone analyze cards as obscure as pack rat and figure out how good it is in quite some time
28:30 Ironically, Modern Charblecher is one of the few decks that actually can stack its entire library, with Recross the Paths. But this doesn't really matter here for the exact reason Recross the Paths works at all for this purpose, there aren't any "misses" you'd want to put to the bottom in the first place.
Yeah Jame should have mentioned Recross the Paths when the guys asked if you can change the top cards of your library.
Yeah recross the paths is like the green doomsday, but far more deckbuilding requirements. Remember some guys tinkering with recross in legacy back during the early 2010's, but they never got it anywhere really beyond maybe a wish target in legacy belcher where legacy belcher just ran the one land in taiga that they could find with land grant to nug people for 50+ on turn 1 or even if they couldn't remove it odds are you would flip 10+ cards before the taiga with the taiga doubling damage due to being a mountain forest.
Get joshua schmidt he would be great for this series, great vid overall
I’ve asked him and he hasn’t answered yet!
He did this exact same video with the card market people, I think he's also affiliated with them in some way, so I doubt he'd come to do the exact same video concept with another creator when he'll most likely do it again with card market the next time he's in germany.
I second this. He said he loves doing these.
"At the begining of your upkeep, if target opponent has one or more cards in their hand, they lose the game"
That's the type of card you would need to exist for One With Nothing to have a purpose.
Yup 🤣
all it would take is for good cards with hellbent to be printed.
@@windhelmguard5295 the problem with the idea that good hellbent cards would finally break one with nothing is that it ignores the existence of discard engines that _actually do something on their own,_ meaning that if you made a pile of cards with hellbent payoffs strong enough that you could genuinely just throw your entire hand away and still be competitive against other decks ... you could also, y'know, play those cards while spitting out a bunch of tokens. or bombarding your opponent with burn damage. or, y'know, do _anything_ with those cards you're discarding
hell, hellbent is a black and _red_ mechanic! why discard your hand when you can just throw it all on the field to terrorize your opponent and, oh look, now your hand's empty and your board is even more brutal! wow, funny how that works out, eh?
anything you can do to make one with nothing playable is just gonna make a deck that functions _waaaay_ better without it. the best you can really hope for is players with more, ahem, _expressive_ deck building styles slotting it in as a funny panic button card, where they use it to counter an opponent's attempt to get rid of a core combo piece that would just so happen to survive if hellbent was active. y'know. before the hellbent player turned on hellbent. while they have black mana floating. and no better cards to dump their hand. and the hellbent player is already positioned to win the game. and their opponent doesn't get ( or already have ) another answer before the winning position becomes a win
really, the best thing one with nothing brings to the table is that winning with it is _automatically_ one for the history books
this almost exists. there used to be a strat where you used howling mines to force both players to draw lots of cards, and use idols to deal damage to opponent if they had too many cards in hand. you could use one with nothing to counter this specific strategy.. a bit.
It could work in a Barren Glory deck.. which isnt a good win condition but kinda funny. so if you play a land destruction card followed by one with nothing (which you can play in response to your own land destruction so you can still tap the lands).. you may win on your next upkeep..
I don't like having a card like pack rat in this kind of setting - sure it was good when it was in standard 10 years ago, but to me it's more interesting with cards that are actually powerful enough to be good in formats like modern and legacy, and saying "pack rat is good" sort of sets a benchmark of what qualifies as "good", which can easily mislead someone because there's a lot of cards that compare favorably to pack rat, but still probably wouldn't qualify as a "good card" to a lot of people because they don't have the same performance in standard (because being good in standard is so dependent on what other cards surround it, etc.)
In the end, good is subjective, so it does allow for a little grey area unfortunately
@@TheOneJameYT For sure. I just think that using standard cards sort of expand a bit too much on the gray area a lot of the time, but that's just my opinion.
I love that charbelcher pronunciation. This is why Swiss is the best bracket
and one of the few things we got going for us internationally xD
"It's a Menace apparently"
Me: Yeah it is.
I'm so used to seeing the other version of this that I'll near certainly be tripped up.
I plan on going to the grave without having ever touched Magic, so I'm the silly fool this time
Charbelcher is basically MTG's Bersrker Soul. Yugioh actually has some one with nothing like cards (mainly thinking about Phantom Hand, Inferno Wave Motion and Infernity Sage)
yugioh is probably the only card game that put an once per turn restriction on a card that says "discard your entire hand"
@@RaineBans i wish "discard your hand" was easily available in yugioh.
but that is entirely because i play skull servants.
@@RaineBans Maybe so, but Lion's Eye Diamond is turbo-banned, so that has to count for something.
The interesting thing about Pack Rat really is, that it is more of a control finisher than anything else. It is great in a control deck (specifically a pox deck), where you need a way to close out the game and this allows you to funnel all your removal and counter spells that you are not using, because you have exhausted your opponents resources into something that wins you the game at a decent pace.
Drafting pack rat is hilarious. The rest of your deck can be unplayably bad, but pack rat will still win you games
You can really sum up what makes Pack Rat great as: every card in your deck is now, *at worst*, a 3-mana pack rat
As a YCS player who has played one magic deck ever with friends, i saw one with nothing, and I'm sitting here thinking "this is literally the card that made me play magic". Because it is. The only magic deck I've ever played is Anje Falkenrath, and the point of my deck was to One with Nothing.
TBF Belcher was still a combo deck for years in Legacy before MDFCs. Foil Russian Stomping Grounds and all
You love to see it
Yeah it was even a combo deck in the old format extended when it first released in OG mirrodin with mana severance to exile all your lands and that extended was a powerful format because it still had blocks like tempest and urza's saga. Mana severance + belcher is a 2 card combo that wouldn't be any good now, but back then it was so damn good.
15:05
Favorite part lmao “I say no but Blue” 😂
"It would be funny" oh sweetheart you have no idea
I'm kinda surprised nobody brought up ReasonGate decks like Infernoid or Ruinforce OTK for Goblin Charbelcher - my immediate thought was just what if you built your deck to always whiff so you could burn your opponent for a million.
Playing along at home the only one I got wrong was Omniscience, because I just forgor you could cheat cards out. Definitely getting better than the zero I was getting right a year ago ha ha - I'm learning!
You’re doing so good!!
@@laytonjr6601 since all your “lands” are double sided spells, you technically aren’t playing any lands.
To understand the power of omniscience, imagine a continuous spell card with some slight conditions to activate that let's you ignore any summoning conditions on your monsters as well as infinite special summons in a deck that can have cards with the words "draw seven cards" or "you have no limited hand size" in them and multiple variants of ash blossom.
Non-Magic players evaluating Magic cards is my favorite. If you want another wrench in the evaluation, try some cards that are only good in commander but are staples there, like Rhystic Study.
Yea that would be a head scratcher for sure
@TheOneJameYT yeah, this is the hardest thing about going towards magic rather than say magic doing yugi cards is the formats
Like you basically have to ignore limited for instance
@@michaeltillotson3711 yeah it’s definitely wild to try to do it this way lol
Yeah, specifying format helps.
For those unaware of Magic, the most common formats to come up in discussions like this are:
Standard, which is using only what's new. Power level fluctuates based on what's in rotation.
Commander, which is using almost anything, but is casual so you won't see the ultra high power stuff. It has double life, larger and less consistent decks, and is usually four player, so games are much slower.
And Vintage, which allows everything, and games very rarely go past 2 turns.
There's other formats (Legacy, Modern, Draft, Cube, Arch Enemy, planechase, 2 headed giant, alchemy and more), but those are the 3 most relevant in these kinds of videos.
Im always surprised at how little people that are considered experts in a particular card game know about another card game.
I will say, I do think you should explain very clear misunderstandings that the guests have. Like during pack rat he's clearly not understanding that mana just taps and comes back next turn, he's considering this as a special expendable resource for this specific group, like in yugioh.
Makes perfect sense, I should’ve noticed that. Thanks!
@@TheOneJameYT no problem! Love your videos man!
Thing is, I didn’t know about Charbelcher going in, and before you revealed why it was broken I was already trying to think of ways to cast it in a no-spells deck.
Charbelcher got a bit of new notoriety when Arena ran a no ban phantom event, as it was one of the 2 techs for a turn 1 channel combo available with arena coded cards.
I like that you showed them Charbelcher! It's a fun deck to talk about, and it shows off some of the weirdness of MTG deckbuilding and strategy.
Honestly it could be a fun idea to do a similar video where you show someone the key combo card in a combo deck and ask them how they think the combo works, Charbelcher is less of a trick question in that case because the person playing already knows it's a combo they're trying to figure out. For the really complex combos you could show two of the key cards, and so on, to adjust the difficulty.
You could frame it like "So how do you think MTG players managed to break this card?" and call it Combo Breaker :D
One with Nothing can be used to dodge graveyard hate in a mass-reanimation deck. Fill your hand, put the big boom on the stack, dump everything and reanimate.
Belcher was a deck way before the sneaky backside lands...
Edit: "I think, Magic calls it tutoring, right?!" If you don't know where your card game's lingo comes from, chances are, it's named after the first (good) Magic card to ever do it.
I enjoy watching these kinds of videos because there's such a wide variance between knowledge.
Some people understand the basic concepts of lands and mana, and some are going in Totally blind, not even knowing how much life players start with.
"Grief is probably what players feel, it's a menace" completely sums up Grief
One with Nothing was good for ONE matchup for ONE format, and that was against OwlMoon, which was a deck that made your opponent purposely draw a ton of cards to deal a ton of damage with an artifact that dealt damage to your opponent if they have 7+ cards in their hand, amd they were made to draw more cards than they could ever play in a turn.
One with Nothing would basically win you that matchup if it didnt get countered.
One with Nothing has a Yu-Gi-Oh! equivalent in The Cheerful Coffin and both are equally bad.
Tell that to Dark World
@@michaelcinelli4120 Dark World still goes minus off of it 😅
Charbelcher saw legacy play before MDFCs in 2 and 3 land builds.
One of the important things about why Pack Rat is good is because of the shells it was used in. Cards like underworld connections replenished the cards discarded to pack rat while black's powerful removal suite enabled the turn 2 play to consistently be the only thing on board. The fact that it could be activated at instant speed allowed you to play the deck as a complete control deck, and when your opponent didn't have relevant plays, you had pack rat to sink mana into for board presence against their often empty board.
Thanks for getting another Yugioh player, I really appreciate you reading and acting on comments! I think Ignis did well and I hope he wants to come back. Keep it up Jame!
Thanks!! I’ve been trying really hard to get more Yugioh players!
As someone who has played magic for 6 years and counting i saw goblin charbelcher and thought if it was any good it would be a very niche deck. I wouldnt call the card good just cuz it works in 1 deck that doesnt see a lot of play. Its more of a gimmick thats really funny when you get it to work but it just doesn't work that often.
Still would love to see paradoxical outcome looked ar. Although there's always amusing cards to see. Positive note is that these videos tend to help Yugioh players think about things in different ways.
I think a very tricky thing with evaluating MTG cards is that there are super many formats which can make use of a card at once, and the viability can vary drastically from one format to another.
Take Omniscience for example. It was unplayably bad in the standard format it was released in, it *is* viable in a Legacy deck but that Legacy deck is not high tier, and it's Tier 1 in Pioneer. Does that average out to it being a good card? You can argue it both ways.
If you do this again, I suggest Hogaak, Fires of Invention, Shahrazad, and Oko, Thief of Crowns.
Also, if Graceful Charity cost 1, it would be an amazing MTG card (better than Brainstorm in a lot of decks). It's just a funny comparison to One With Nothing.
33:19 there is something called flip cards, the lands in oops all spells are not them. Flip cards are the original transforming cards from Kamigawa block that had the better card printed upside down at the bottom of the card. Cards used in oops all spells are double faced cards, particularly modular double face cards (as opposed to transforming double faced cards like werewolves)
I would love to see a non magic player rate platinum angel, especially if there’s some setup to it, like showing mother of runes or an enchant with totem armor beforehand
I have played Charbelcher the way he described, as a sort of lightning bolt generator in a pretty normal deck. It is still quite good honestly, but it is too inconsistent. There's a fairly big chance of just not getting enough damage in for the mana cost and you don't want to see that at a tournament.
Interessting to hear your explaining to all colors when he only asked for blue.
Good explenation, tho i think saying "blue" is basically the color of hand traps
I was afraid you were going to say pack rat was bad because it didn't make it in constructed.
But in limited it was a monster. One of the most warping limited cards of all time.
I love my one land Goblin Charbelcher deck and the way he pronounces it had me laughing way to hard.
Belcher is a really neat card, and deck. I remember when the list was all about rituals, ran one land (a taiga) and four Land Grant, and was powered on the strength of Elvish Spirit Guide, Simian Spirit Guide, Lotus Petal, and Wild Cantor. There's been so many versions of it through the ages, and the second pass of Zendikar was transformative for it and other versions of "Oops, All Spells" like the Balustrade Spy/Dread Return lists.
"(Pack Rat) is a one-card engine."
*..."Discard a card..."* Plus, there are significantly more efficient methods to activate Madness, Threshold or Hellbent.
Would me saying "1.5 card engine" make you happier lol
Yes! Give me some more magic content! Yo i love yugioh but i love me some magic too, this was so much fun. "Well youd be able to link climb with this pack rat effect" lol freaking gold bro. Yugioh is such an anomally of a card game its fun seeing the players check out other games for the first time
Yep it’s a blast 🤣
it's too bad you couldn't tell him about 'owling mine! He described the deck almost perfectly! There was a format where people sideboarded One With Nothing at the pro tour, specifically because there were decks that forced you to draw a lot then punished you for having a full hand (it was good against control and awful against aggro).
Pack Rat looks fairly decent, not broken, but still very solid. The discard ability in black is usually a good thing for you, I'm sure this combos with something like make rat tokens from cards in graveyard, and there plenty of Rats in general, maybe it would be better if it were a zombie instead, but looks good to me.
I'll probably say that Pack rat also seems worse than usual than it is since the value of a card is different between yugioh and magic. In yugioh, a 1 card deficit is very high especially with how valuable cards can be and even with synergies, pitching a card is still a hefty cost for what amounts to another monster, even if it gets stronger.
Overall excellent analysis on both ends. The only part I wish that you mentioned was how busted Show and Tell makes Omniscience. As for belcher, I think you probably should have focused on the original belcher decks in legacy that were all rituals and stuff like Mox Diamond and Lotus Petal to ramp out Belcher and activate it when there there was a Taiga and maybe a Bayou. Then go on to say it evolved to Oops All Spells since the strategies are pretty different (especially because Oops All Spells can win without Belcher).
Love doing the flip of this series, let's me play along!
As a magic player, I had so much fun watching this. I forgot what it was like to not know magic!
This is the first time I've seen a Yugioh player reacting to One With Nothing who didn't assume it was a trick question and must be insanely OP.
🤣
One with nothing would work great against an opponent choosing your hand to gain mana from "I choose you since you have the biggest hand" "I DID have the biggest hand size" "NANI" "I cast One with Nothing discarding my entire hand"
Pack Rats rule, I don't play MtG but its just a very funny winner, king in sealed formats, solid in others, its real hard to argue with the value proposition of "Is any card in your hand better than 2B for another Pack Rat?" and where that can quickly lead, and how much it can unjam an otherwise terrible draw because you just pitch your random GY focused monsters for MORE RATS
EXACTLY
Id love to see how the yugi tubbers evaluation of Phyrexian Obliterator and Daybreak Coronet.
The problem with One with Nothing is that even though there are some situations where you do want to discard a lot of cards, there are too many other cards out there with premium effects that come with "discard a card" as a downside to balance them out, and it's much better to just play those cards to do whatever discarding you want.
Granted, this card still could become good some day. In Hearthstone there was a "discard your hand" type card that got banned because a there was a critical mass of "whenever you discard" style cards that it synergized too well with, and led to huge blowouts. I think it's possible for One with Nothing to eventually be good some day, but it needs the right deck where it does something more than what other discard cards can achieve.
We just need a blue deflecting palm style effect that let's you rewrite an effect of a spell you're oppone is trying to cast and changing to one of a card in your own hand.
I'm kinda surprised that a Yugioh player looked at Pack Rat and he didn't really focus on the discard ability, given just how powerful discarding in Yugioh can be and the value of the graveyard in general is for Yugioh. In magic graveyard tech is like it's own niche (not niche as in small, but one of several strategies, mostly black) and basically 90% of Yugioh is graveyard tech. Yugioh is Black the game.
its been good fun!
Ah, the shoe's on the other foot I see! I enjoyed this, comparing the mechanics of card games has always been interesting. wouldn't mind seeing more Yu-Gi-Oh players guessing magic cards.
I’ve done it with Jesse Kotton awhile back too!
I’d love to see you get Yugioh players who have played MtG and stepped away from it to look at some cards. MBT is the first in this category that comes to mind and I know he has done videos like this before for Vanguard, Digimon, and Marvel Snap
I’ve asked him to be on the show and he told me that he knows too much magic lol
As a Yu-Gi-Oh player it's fun to watch this. I think Pokemon can be a bit hard. Most cards you can immediately tell if they're good or bad.
you forgot to mention hellbent cards for a potential use for one with nothing, which would be very strong, if there were any good cards with hellbent effects.
Love the mana question thats not ofter thought of
I'm gonna call it Doom Mana from now on.
Charbelcher is impossible to analyze without knowing about rituals, artifact mana, and mdfcs.
Pack rat was kind of a weird one to show too. It was so good in standard because of the stupid Gary finisher.
Pack Rat! I remember his because my MTG friend show it to me and ask me if it was good. My answer as a YGO player was "no, its a crappy King of the Skull Servants" ( Zombie Gang 4 Life btw), but then I remember Magic got no limits of monsters/creatures on the field. So in the end I said "Pack Rat its closer to Ronin Raccoon Sandayu Token if Sandayu lets your Token become the whole Sandayu itself while keeping the benefits of ever growing stats".
Also I bet some MTG cards might abuse the ever generating bodies on the field for plays.
Another strength of the card is that it prevents you from flooding. Just in case that term is when you draw too many lands. Pack Rat can discard those extra lands to generate rats.
oh boi why did i now need to hear charbelcher by a swiss. now i don't know if i only say shabelsher because thats the only way i heard it up till now or if i would natively say it that way if encountered without someone already saying the name. swiss is different enough form high german that it could be a language difference
ps.: seeing one with nothing, it's famus and stuff but a card that would be way more interesting of that type would be bazaar of baghdad. it's the answer to how much would you give for card draw
I saw the thumbnail, and laughed having played Standard back when Pack Rat was in Standard. That was the during the short period of time that I played Standard. What a coincidence,
It was meant to be!
@@TheOneJameYT That third one is stupid broken by the way! What set is that from? I haven't followed Mtg in the past few years.
18:19 Narset in commander lol
Pack Rat seems to play like Deskbots
Honestly, if Pack Rat was in Yugioh, it might not actually be half bad in the right deck. The fact that the discard ability has no once per turn is pretty enticing. Let's say you play it in an Ojama deck: Normal Summon Pack Rat, discard Ojamagic to get a token, search three Ojamas, discard those to get three more tokens. That gives you plenty of link fodder. Not to mention that the rats (including the tokens) would likely be beasts, so they work with any beast synergy that Ojamas already work with.
It also would've been pretty busted with the pre-errata Night Assailant, potentially giving you enough tokens to bring out your entire Extra Deck. Though that won't work anymore.
7:31 Issue from YGO perspective: If that first Pack Rat is outed early, no copies made. The card's use case assumes it is Allowed to exist longer than the turn it is summoned.
Yugioh doesn't let us assune that, so we need to adjust to our cards not needing OP protection to last past our own End Phase.
Would've loved if you mentioned why one with nothing was printed, basically as an experiment to see what players could cook up with it.
Doesnt one with nothing have a very specific use case that it was actually used for back in the day? Remember seeing something on that
Yea it was used to be able to attack through the opponent having Ensnaring Bridge or something similar I believe
Wait, could this video mean that an unknown, small YGOCZcamsr, like myself, might have a chance to participate in such a video?
Jokes aside, awesome video yet again!
Yes, if you listen to the end of the video you’ll see how!
One with nothing might be a bad card by itself, but it has more tournament tops than angels mercy, even while having a supposedly worse effect, because it was found in sideboards in some top 32 decks of pro tour honolulu as a counter to decks trying to win with ebony owl netsuke, the deck was called owling mine.
So while its effect impacts the gamestate in a way that is only technically bad for its player, it does affect it in a way that can be beneficial in nice situations unlike some other bad cards.
That is the best thing I’ve ever heard
thats kinda like all these dogshit fusion monsters from early yugioh having a significant number of tournament tops because people used to fill the extra/fusion deck with funny garbage
@@ich3730 Not really, the deck against which it was sideboarded used howling mine too flood your hand quicker than you could empty it and the owl to burn you for your hand size. One with nothing was actually cast in that matchup to avoid the owl burn, and by reports of the players using it the first time you used one with nothing would greatly increase your win percentage against the deck and the second cast basically assired victory.
@@younasdar5572 so i checked the winning lists of 2006 pro tour honolulu and didnt see anyone play one with nothing?
I opened first pack pack rats in a draft at a LGS. I was never any good with black so i picked somethting else.
Next guy looked at me 'really? You passed THAT? '
i just shrugged
'this card will win on its own you can undo'
I was pretty much a stickler for rules 'no, its okay - I've already picked up the next pack so it wouldn't be right'
He won, of course. I didnt get very far because im a bad player.
You learned!!
Rats were definitely the hardest for me, 2mana for a 1/1 is whatever, its just a question of how well that ability swarms and I had no clue how to gauge that.
I completely forgot the double land/nonland cards existed, but still got pretty close with Charbelcher. Immediate thought was that its not a card most decks would even consider, but there had to be a way to build around it and make a gimmicky deck. Slash Draw FTK or some such.
I couldn't decide if the effect of Omniscience was worth the stated 10 mana or not, but there had to be some viable way to reduce the cost or cheat it into play.
I didn't know Menace or Evoke, which are apparently kinda cracked, but hand knowledge and a targeted rip on a decent body has to be playable somewhere. Stupid Labyrinth lady ripping a random card already feels bad enough.
I forget what context for it was, but I do remember seeing One With Nothing before. I guess its just one of those classics that always show up in lists of worst or funniest cards. (Similarly, Bargain is... an interestingly named card)
Omniscience is often cheated into play with cheaper effects.
Omniscience is absolutely worth 10 mana, however it is rarely cast for that.
It is usually cheated into play with something like the card "Show and Tell"
There are 3 cards that return from exile, karn, the great creator which only returns artifact cards in exile, riftsweeper which puts one exiled card into your library, and pull from eternity which puts an exiled card into your graveyard.
Afaik those are all 3 cards that are not just oblivion ring effects that return the cards they themsevles exiled back to the game.
Between Grief, Belcher and OwN, I'm not sure which one was the more evil card to have be guessed
They all were 😈
i'd vote for Belcher!
wasnt one with nothing useful in one ocasion where a player was filling player hands and dealing damage based on the amount of cards in hand
i didn't believe you when you said pack rat is good but then i remember devotion to black exists and each token counts towards devotion.
Yep!
I think the first card you have to show any Yu-Gi-Oh player is divination. It shows how pathetically easy it is to balance pot of greed with a mana system. It also makes them really think about mana cost for the rest of the thing. I feel like often times with cards like omniscience they get the Right answer with the wrong formula.
This was physically painful. Thank you.
Also mentally but I loved it
my man said goblin gobble gobble
One with nothing Inti? Yo this ygo player might have found some hidden tech.
🤣
I could theoretically see one with nothing being used in a syr konrad deck
What the amount of stacking? ...let me introduce [[recross the paths]] aka. stack the whole deck.