Pedal Drive Shootout: Native Titan VS Hobie PA VS Jackson Coosa FD
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- You guys have been asking for it so here it is! Our first ever Pedal Drive Shootout.
**** HEADS UP ****** It was brought to our attention that we did not have the drive locked into the yak correctly and that is why the pin broke. This is not a reflection of the drive, more of our inexperience with the it. It's our intention to give unbiased reviews based on real world experiences and this did not accurately portray the drive. We will be doing a revised review of the PA with Bryan from Headwaters in Redding where we can rely on his expertise on the boats.
We picked what we felt are our most asked about boats and put them head to head to see where they each stacked up. We rated them on Speed, Maneuverability, Ergonomics, Fishability, and fit and finish.
All these boats were great options, and for each has their area of expertise. Please take this review for what it is, a simple afternoon on the water with three buddies who love to fish playing in boats.
Your option may vary and we encourage you to share it in the comments. Thanks for watching and happy paddlin!
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SPECS:
Hobie PA 14: Check Website for current pricing.
headwatersadven...
Length: 13' 8" / 4.17 m
Width: 38" / .97 m
Height: 20" / 0.51 m
Capacity: 600 lbs / 272 kg
Vantage Seat Capacity: 350 lbs / 159 kg
Fitted Hull Weight: 120.5 lbs / 55 kg *
Fully Rigged Weight: 144.5 lbs / 65.54 kg *
Native Watercraft Titan 12: $2799
headwaterskaya...
Length:12' / 366 cm
Width 39" / 99 cm
Fitted Hull Weight 109 lbs / 49 kg
Rigged Hull Weight 138 lbs / 63 kg
Capacity 500 lbs / 227 kg
Height 17"
Jackson Coosa FD: $2999
jacksonkayak.co...
Length12'7"
Width 35"
Total Capacity450
Fitted Weight 102 (without drive and seat)
Rigged Weight 115 (With drive and seat)
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Hello Fellow Fisherman, You guys hit the nail on the head with this show. For me, the timing was perfect, as I am in full shopping mode right here, right now. I could not have asked for a better demonstration of terrific products. I am a former kayak man, I had a Field & Stream Tallon 12, non-drive system kayak. I motorized it with a Minn-Kota but when it came to adding the marine battery the yak became too unstable. After flipping it twice (never again) I built an excellent outrigger pontoon system that could not have worked better. I could have jogged around it with no loss of balance or stability.
I fish the open salt waterways here on Long Island, NY. For two main reasons, I've chosen the Hobie. The first being the flexibility in open water as that's my fishing preference. The second being my right knee. Because of knee problems I've had since 1977 (I'm 60, but really 20) I have a little difficulty peddling full circle. The drive system on the Hobie alleviates this problem altogether. The room on the Hobie to move about was a seller as well.
I'm very excited about this yak and can't wait to get out on it soon. Do you recommend anyone to purchase it from here on Long Island? What do you think would be the best landing gear for it? Thanks much - Jeffeo
You're reviews are great man! I can't get over the honesty in the videos. If one lacks a feature the other one has, you don't try to down play. You call like it is.
Keep them coming!!!!
That broken plastic nub on the mirage drive (at about 14:50) serves only to align the drive when you slide it into the "slot" (better known as the "yakgina"). I cut those nubs off on both of my mirage drives. If properly seated, the drive will work exactly the same, with or without those nubs. The wobble you show at the start is a clear sign that the drive was not properly seated, and that's surely why the thing broke...
That’s good to know. They kind of made me nervous about the hobie on this review.
I agree and was going to say, it was not properly seated is why it broke.
Travis Muhler the Hobie just seems way better
Agreed, that drive was not properly seated. I had a Revolution that would wobble exactly like that if the drive was not seated properly
Cheap made in China plastic, you know?
You really need to have a little awareness that the Mirage drive is seated correctly. Good rule of thumb: If the mechanism wobbles, something is not seated right.
There are a whole bunch of "yeah, buts" anyone can do. For instance, they didn't likely have the most agressive prop pitch setting for the Coosa FD either, so they short-changed the top speed it was capable of.
***** HEADS UP ******* It was brought to our attention that we did not have the drive locked into the yak correctly and that is why the pin broke. This is not a reflection of the drive, more of our inexperience with the it. It's our intention to give unbiased reviews based on real world experiences and this did not accurately portray the drive. We will be doing a revised review of the PA with Bryan from Headwaters in Redding where we can rely on his expertise on the Hobie boats.
Imagine how fast the Hobie would have been with the drive locked in place :D
Great update! Hope to see both these back in the water against a few competitors in the future!
Headwaters Kayak rd
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Regardless of what the manufacturer "excuse" is!!! It was in the hands of kayak experts and it broke. If it was not obvious to the experts then how is it going to be obvious to the non experienced buyers? Plastic anchor pins in a drive??? That is a faulty design for long term reliability. I understand the cost cutting and budgets issue BUT both the design team and the accounting team should be stranded on an island and need to pedal their way back with this drive. Let's see what would be their excuse then.
toanduong the plastic pins are simply guide pins. When it is correctly locked in place stainless steel pins hold it. The “experts” should’ve asked questions if they didn’t know ho wit worked. Completely user error. Hobie shares no blame at all.
Content like this is what makes a brand name, become a trusted brand name over night to people who watch it. Awesome review
fishing4tanks thanks man. Appreciate the kind words.
I like the Hobie and the Jackson. The drive in the Native looked huge imo and I do not like the fact it doesn't have a break away.
The native had the front clip to let it wobble but it stopped the kayak so how much force was on the linkage
honestly i leave that latch not engaged and if i bump something it just pops up without breaking that clip. But you do have to be aware of how deep you are. I think i was able to be in just under of a foot of water before i had to pull up the drive out of the water.
Thank goodness someone has done this. I have two mirage drive Hobies.
I am in the market for a yak. Your vids help a LOT. So far, the Hobie is at the top of my list, simply because I fish a LOT of weed choked water, a lot of flooded woodlands where trees, logs and stumps may only be just a few inches below the surface, and places where very shallow sandbars separate deeper holes. Being able to easily fold the fins flat against the hull is a KEY issue for me
I threw that orange life preserver out 25 years ago. Good to see its still holding up.
Great timing! Was really wanting to see a comparison of different models, although there are some others I was checking out this covered the majority. Clicked the sub and 👍
Awesome review guys! Would definitely like to see more boat comparisons with the three of you!
Greg Blanchard yes this was a fun one. We work together and fish together so the synergy between us is great. Plus between the three of us we have a pretty solid depth of experience.
Man, this vid was HELPFUL!
From the moment Matt stepped into the Hobie and stood on one leg...my drool factor on the Hobie was crazy high.
Unfortunately, i don't have a dealer in many hours from me for any of these...
At this point for me, my next boat is still the Nucanoe Frontier 12 or a Hobie PA... paddle vs peddle...we shall see. Thank you again!
That is frigging like a DREAM come true ... somebody or i should say some magnificent people donated that equipment ?!?!?!? So lucky 🍀
I really like the option on that Jackson! Shallow drive adjustability! That sweet! That changes my list on what pedal kayak to get this year!
Love mine, go get it! I love having different heights on the prop
Total newbie here and found you guys, appreciate all the details. MN has a lot of water access and finally looking to prepare for some fun for myself!
You guys are awesome! Thanks for the review! The weight of these boats scares the hell out of me. I'd love to see a review of the Titan Slayer and other lighter pedal drive yaks. Thanks so much for all you do! Really helpful
*native slayer
This content is really good... the picture quality is good, the kayak explanation is good... the fishing is also good... especially because the CZcams translation is also good.
I have the slayer max 12.5 for a year now, Its absolutely amazing Kayak honestly I cant think of any other kayak id buy besides the titan they do share the same features just not as wide as the titan. Five stars for the slayer max 12.5 for sure!
Starting to watch this video now.. thanks for doing this video ive been trying to decide between the hobie and jackson
I like the pro angler14 so much I purchased two! And my wife loves her Hobie i11 we really enjoy being able to pack it up in its own custom travel case, so we can take it with us on vacations!
Enjoyable video. In SW Florida, my experience as an owner of a Hobie Outback { 2007 Model} years ago was the occasional damage to the Mirage drive fins and even the supporting bars when hitting submerged obstructions. Cloudy water is fairly common in the Ten Thousand Islands, so contacting submerged obstructions is practically inevitable. I was hoping that the demo would show the Mirage Drive contacting the submerged log when underway and see if any damage would occur. I know that they mention the drive is fragile, but I'm curious to know if this is still a "common" problem in the newer generation 180 Mirage Drive. The other two boats actually struck the submerged log with no damage. This issue and the hull slap convinced me to sell. Yes, resale value was nice!
Bought 2013 Hobie PA 14 w Mirage 180. Love reviews and excited to get in Arizona water.
I really like tbe big wells and the intuitive drive system on that Titan. I've been wanting a native since the old slayer. It just looks like the most fishable boat to me.
Thank you for the review. This is exactly what I needed to decide which kayaks to demo.
Fishing Dad2_3 stoked dude. Happy we could help.
Jackson FD is great. I love mine, but I was impressed with both the Hobie and the Native in your content
The FD drive has been through a bunch of changes since this review. I’d love to check out some of their newer designs.
Wish I could afford one of these... And a roof rack... And a kayak holding thingy... As well as the basic necessities of life.
As soon as I saw the "speed test" I was waiting for the Hobie mirage drive to fail. I stripped pedal position on mine that way. Some things never change.
Love the channel! Do a review on the titan vs old town topwater pdl 👌
Jacob Turner reach out to Oldtown and they gave me a one line response basically telling me they are not looking for dealers in our area or any help promoting their product. I won’t even give them the time of day. Corporate kayak companies like that suck.
I’m 6’ 7” with a 40” inseam and fish out of a PA 14, plenty of legroom. If you’re a tall guy, that’s what I’d pick. I’ve read of guys 6’ 10” fishing out of them comfortably.
My 2 biggest complaints are the cost and weight, otherwise, they are great!
I would agree that for bass fishing the native is the best value. However, I would worry about it in inlets and the waterway on saltwater. I would like to see one of these for inshore/nearshore saltwater fishing. With max wind and current.
Awsome review after seeing this I want a titan 12
All those boats are very nice but after using a mirage drive myself I can’t imagine ever wanting anything other than a hobie
This is the kinda video we want to see!
Blue one is handling lot better and smooth
Lol. Glad that wasn't my PA 14!
PDL for sure is a great boat
Gotta love the people who donated for this cool video
I have a tandem island.Yeah you have to drop the drive in pretty hard.I believe the hobie would have smoked the other two if put in right.I knew right away it wasnt in right there is no looseness with both sides locked in.
I live in northwest Iowa. I have a Native and a Hobie dealer within 25 miles. It's about 150 miles to the nearest Jackson dealer. I just bought a Native Titan 12 after watching this and other reviews. I took it out for the first time yesterday and had quality issues with the steering control and the left pedal kept coming off of the drive. It is definitely STABLE since I was able to climb around the kayak trying to figure out what was going on. I wish I lived closer to a shop like yours that has a fully equipped shop and ability to try the different brands prior to buying. Hopefully I get a quick response so I can find out what can be done. I'm very bummed that I can't use it this weekend since it was a birthday present to myself. I'm watching your other videos looking for a comfortable PFD. I'm a big guy and this is my first kayak experience. My cheap PFD isn't going to cut it.
Mike Weber if the pedal is falling off that’s a dealer issue. They have to be torqued to spec and if not they will come loose. They are pressed for so be sure they warranty the crank arm! If you have issues I’ll handle it for you. Steering should be able to be adjusted or fixed. Sorry your having a negative experience. Such a bummer when you spend that much on a new toy.
@@HeadwatersKayak thank you for such a quick reply. I love your videos. This is all new to me, so I've watched a lot of videos and visited a lot of websites researching kayaks, PFD's, "upgrades", etc. If I was a dealer, I would never put a new user in equipment that hasn't been set up properly. I had to watch a video just to learn now to adjust the seat to pedal distance. I'm very discouraged. You guys rock!
From what I've seen, the Topwater PDL will blow all these out of the water. Just my 2 cents. It's also the boat I'll be buying in the next 2 weeks.
You don't say. SMH
15:55 “So much room for activities!” LOL
I had the same issue with my Hobie drive unit. The plastic nub broke off on one side. I found that if I cut a small section of garden hose to slip over the drive horns it steadied the wobble and free play in the drive.
Good comparison video .. It really looked like the Hobie was running rings around the competition as far as speed and maneuverability. I would suggest proper adjustment of the seat in relation to the pedals, you all looked to be a little far from the pedals to me.. Like a bike you don't want to reach full extension of your legs at the bottom of the pedal stroke.
Looked like the Hobie required a bit less pedal effort to me.. might just be the motion difference though.
good job.
It's obvious that the Hobie drive mechanism is flimsy and wobbly. I'm going with the Titan.
Great vid...thanks for putting it together! Is it me or does Dan sound like Kevin Costner!!??
As I recall from my sailing days, > LOA means greater overall speed, so the Hobie should be faster. I don't know the physics/hydraulics of the fin drive, but they appear to be more efficient also. Hard to believe Hobie used plastic for the high stress Peg that broke.
Mirage Drive broke on me over the weekend. And now i run into this video. I am going to attempt to salvage but i will be selling it.
Old Town PDL drive is definitely a contender.
Because I live in the Great Lakes Basin in Ontario Canada, and grew up either near Lake Huron and now Lake Erie, the Hobie would be my best bet. Most of the fishing here is done a few miles out on the Lake in open water. Very little river fishing here. Sadly then, I would pick the Hobie and would have to go with a different dealer.
I don’t think you had the hobie mirage drive fully seated when you started, which allowed the wobble, and eventually broke the plastic nub in fatigue. Do you think that’s possible? I’ve had a Hobie Mirage Tandem Island. If the drove wobbles, it’s not fully seated. You fix it Pulling it up and sort of dropping it into the slot.
Rob Utzinger perhaps. The clips were locked on the metal rods so I assumed it was fully seated.
Rob Utzinger possibly was cracked ,fatigued before you used it since it wobbled from start
Great comparison!
I fish the shallow marsh so I still prefer the Hobie. The Big Rig FD will be tempting when it comes out.
just the fact I never have to pull my drive out of the water ill choose Jackson over the two others any day if a fish dives under my kayak I simply pull a lever and my prop is out of the water. I've seen people destroy the Hobie fins by not pulling them out and beaching. in my opinion, the Jackson is far superior of a kayak
I have two Hobies and I'm inclined to agree with you.
Great Video
Points out some highs and lows on those kayaks...
Loving my Hobie PA14 big water badass!
Mirage drives are so smooth, I sold my old boat the second I tried one. THey also go pletty flat against the hull. Love it.
Jackson coosa FD! I vote it.
I own a big rig paddle style and fish a river that is filled with fallen trees so you are constantly having to go over logs. DO you fish yours in rivers with a lot of stuff to worry about running over? I think that being able to peddle forward and backward with out having to pull cords make it a lot nicer.
Really been looking around at your shop lately.. Been wanting a pedal drive, but i have to store it on top of my car.. bang for my buck would be a Coosa due to the hull weight, but you guys don't have it in the shop.
Love your videos. I would love to see something with your thoughts on or a shootout with
1) Hobie passport
2) Hobie compass
3) vibe shearwater
4) perception pilot 12
5) old town salty 120
I think compass and salty are the fastest and sub $2k makes these all attractive as a first pedal kayak
Keep up the great work. Probably watched most of your videos in the last 2 months. 2nd time watching this one ;)
$2800+... For a kayak....
Wow, that's real commitment to your sport (or I guess sponsorship lessens the sting), but dang I look at those and wish I could grab one just for the leisure side. I don't fish much, but having the choice of paddle or pedal on a kayak is really appealing.
Really nice review! Loved seeing them side-by-side. Fishing with the Mirage drive seems to be a pain because you can't stop or switch immediately, as with the other two. I've also heard that the Jackson will not track straight without your hand on one control. So much for the hands free fishing advantage of a pedal yak. I like the Native, but am surely looking at the Predator or Topwater PDL as well.
Keep up the great work, and thanks for taking the time to get this out!
In all honesty the mirage drive isn't hard to put in reverse. It takes about the same time to swap directions as it does to turn your rudder while your gliding and fishing.
Hobie drive pedals needs to be both aligned in order to go in forward or reverse. Don’t pull otherwise
Lodi!! My home town! Go Flames!
I just got my JK Coosa FD and LOVE IT! Out of curiosity, did you have the blades of the prop on the factory “medium” propulsion setting? Setting this to the higher setting made a big difference in my opinion!
Honestly, I think you’re highlighting the thing that makes this market so interesting: very different drive systems! The flex drive appealed to me the most, because it’s partially removable and very protected from damage. Great vid guys!
Brett Siegle stock. It was not my yak so I didn’t want to mess with it to much. Would love to try the other pitch. Thanks for the feedback
I have the Coosa FD as well and one thing they didn't consider is go ahead and try and paddle the other two like an actual kayak, not fun..... also, yes, you can adjust the pitch on the prop on the Coosa and if you put it on the high setting you can easily go over 5mph and eat that PA for breakfast. If he would have put the drive in the shallow setting he likely wouldn't have eaten up any weeds on his prop either. I just reach down and raise it for areas with shallow weeds. Jackson is coming out with a an electric drive that you can swap out with the pedals for long hauls as well..... I love the boat. The reverse aspect was the main reason I opted for the Coosa over the PA. Both are good for weeds, but the pedal reverse and the paddle-ability won me over to the Jackson. I don't think you can go wrong really
I would say if you had the drive in locked tight like it should of been the hobie was by far the winner of these three boats. When the guy said there was a wobble to the drive I thought straight away it wouldn't of been locked in correctly.
Adam Crane the second two thirds of the video it was clicked in correct. Titan was still the winner for fresh water bass fishing due to the ability to maintain position and control. It simply works better. Quality features would go to Hobie. If you were trolling open water or fishin off shore it would go to Hobie, but for the type of fishing these boats were designed for, the Titan was our clear winner.
Headwaters Kayak even though your the dealer for that brand so unbiased for sure!
Great video. Thanks guys👍
Hobie all day everyday. Past owner of 5 outbacks,both Pa’s 14&12 and a Revo13. Hobies Rock!!!!
Any thoughts on the pa 12 vs pa14?
Honest review! Thanks Dan.
Adventures with RipnLips916 enjoyed it. Thanks for your time the other day. If things go right we may be able to have you on team Headwaters after all. Fingers crossed
Very informative. Thanks for this review!
You will need to protect your kayaks. See my completely enclosed three kayak storage shed I built at Karin and Larry at Home. Take care, Larry
I'm not only saying this because we are Native Dealers....🤔. But we all thought Native was the best. I'm not buying it. Thought it was unbiased until the end. Decent video.
Love your channel, I was recently added to Team Native Sweden and will pick up my new Slayer 13 Propel tomorrow. Best regards.
Jackson looks the best overall from engineering standpoint
What kayak would you most recommend for fishing/duck hunting? I’m thinking either the big fish or the vibe sea ghost. Stability and storage room is more important than speed to me.
Would like to see you test and recommend some inflatable kayaks appropriate for seniors, offers stability in the Sound (ocean), carrying crab pot and fishing gear and managing in and out.
It's a shame the left knob that holds the Mirage Drive in the well broke. It's made of PLASTIC, such a vital component that receives a lot of pressure and friction. Hobie manufacturer must improve it's design of the Mirage Drive. We don't want to be left without pedal power 5 km from shore.
The hobie will change into reverse or forward, providing you have your feet in the pedals, and they are aligned straight’ then pull cord down and out ‘ instead of up and feet off pedals’ you will notice a big difference in the quickness of changing direction’ just as quick as a pedal drive once you master it ‘ it’s really easy once you get use to it ‘
Hobie all the way ‘ !
It’s going to be a whole new ball game when the Hobie Mirage Drive exclusive patent expires soon. Prices will go WAY down with the added competition.
You won't have to buy it all you got to do is call hoby it's all one hundred percent guaranteed
Love the video guys!
This would have been worth it had the dude in the Hobie knew what he was doing. It’s not rocket science to pull the reverse cord on a 180 drive.
Not rocket science...yet was still hard to do....
Jackson FD’s are having a lot of problems now. Hopefully Jackson will improve them quickly. The other pedal drives have been out for a while and the bugs have been fixed
What problems are they having? I'm looking at buying one shortly.
“Checkin out maneuverability, stability, fish-@ability, rockabilly....”
Short quick pedals work much better and faster than long pedals like a bicycle in a Hobie. Also avoids a sprocket issue.
Awesome review 👌...hobie looking good to me.
Maybe you can review some inflatables? Today's inflatables are Incredibles! My wife's Hobie i11 has been all over Western Lake Erie, northwest Ohio, Gulf of Mexico, Atlantic ocean! Next August, we're flying to Las Vegas Nevada, for a couple of nights before heading off to the Kenai River, near Anchorage Alaska, salmon and trout fishing, Hobie i11 will be with us there too!
I just buyed a lifetime kayak my first ever Sunday sit on top want to make some upgrades the question is for fishing what kind of upgrades would you do ?
I’m trying to find a comparison video including the Nucanoe
Awesome video guys, how about you compare some pedal yaks under 2 grand, lets say the Pescador Pilot, Top Water pdl, Manta ray propel, the new pelican with the high drive when it's available. Just an idea. Great job on your video and review.
That would be a fun one for sure.
Gotta include the compass on that as well
What if the machinery fails, and you guys have to use the paddles on theese kayaks.what feeling is that, with wider kayaks. and what if you capsize with one of those, simple to turn over? In overall is a good movie for pedal drive.
Hey guys great video I'm thinking about getting a kayak come spring time...so I have a few questions #1 i'm 65 years old and need to be able to move this by myself what are some choices in the 8-10' range. #2 price...money could be an issue but not necessarily (as long as it is reasonable price) my retirement is coming soon. #3 pedal drive is cool but not necessary...what is the price comparison pedal vs paddle, thanks for your time.
loved it! thinking jackson fdhd might be my sled, i know thats not what you reviewed but the drive is the same
Yea I would love to check that one out.
Really considering it myself, was happy to find it since i had been wanting a Jackson. Was pleasantly surprised it had most of what i wanted as well.
Oh Lord, I'm stuck in Lodi again.
korgeth lmao I was stuck there for three years one time 😅
@@calvinjones1903 get some pizza
@@jefftiger9258 what you mean 😂
@@calvinjones1903 lodi pizza real good
Missing the Feelfree Lure OD :)
True! the 13.5 should have been in this mix. You can bet that the Dorado will be in a future comparison video no doubt.
My wife and I are very interested in learning much more about the soon to be released Riot mako 15 T. We have looked and looked and still are unable to learn more about the boat,such as release date and price. Please let us know more about it asap,Thank you very much.
Hobie Down. Really helpful vid. Thanks.
@9:18 your feet need to be together when you pull the FWD/REV levers. They won’t spin if they are hard up against the hull. Surprised you didn’t break the mirage drive considering how hard you were pulling those.
Very nice,thanks.
Most people seem to have the 14 pa, I think the 12 may be the better yak. Ohh well lol
The 14 is faster, more stable. The 12 is the better yak only bc of the weight and size.
The old town is missing would've liked to see it compared to the jackson in the water