Great tutorial, tried your exact setup using my Absolute Load value of 0.2 from my '16 GT, it cam chops some times, and some times bogs down then idles at 1k back and forth, hoping I can tinker and solve this issue.
Yeah a lot of stuff like that varies from generation to generation. That's not even unique to ford. The C7 Corvette, for example, has about 4 different configurations of driver demand tables. It's either accelerator vs rpm or accelerator versus vehicle speed and then the units are either pound feet of torque at the flywheel or pound feet of torque at the axle after final drive multiplier. Very annoying to deal with because you never know what configuration you're going to get. The fundamentals are the same, but you just have to adapt each time you tune one.
@@RobsHouse very true, and also very annoying lol. I've done a very similar ghost cam tune, followed your video and tried some settings. It works great up until operating temp - at which point it commands MP0 in what I assume is emissions reduction. But when this occurs, it never leaves MP0 while driving. 100% weighted on MP0. Any ideas? I'm sure there's something simple I've missed, but info on gen4 F150 tuning is slim at best right now.
Yeah I’m not sure. I go over how to force it into optimal stability mode or whatever mode you want to do the ghost cam in. But I’m in a gen 2 platform so there might be more tables for the gen 4
Yes! Newer systems like the newer Mustangs and the Gen 5 General Motors engine platforms rely on torque management to pull timing in a smooth manner to transition to fuel cut. If you just put insanely low timing numbers in your spark tables, you'll have two issues. First off, your car will jerk really badly as soon as you let off the gas because it will not smoothly retard the timing. It'll just go from 30-50 degrees immediately down to -10 or whatever you have it set to. Second, depending on the torque system, the torque management may actually fight you! For example, on GM vehicles, the torque management will actually add timing because it thinks your timing value is too low which will cause back and forth spark oscillations between your negative values and whatever it adds. So -10 to +20 back to -10 back to +20, etc etc. The car will jerk back and forth violently. I tried this method the first time I tried to burble tune my Corvette and it drove like absolute garbage. I then later did a video where I show how to modify the torque management system to get it to pull the timing for you and give you pops. The other thing that can happen depending on how much tuning resolution you have in the spark table is that when you roll back onto the gas, you'll get massive hesitation until the cylinder airmass reaches a level beyond where you put the negative values for the burbles. So you cant roll back onto the accelerator gently. You'll feel like the car doesn't want to move. It is best to leave the main spark tables alone, adjust the minimum tables so that the ECM is allowed to pull a lot of timing (conditions permitting), and then play with the torque systems to get it to pull timing ONLY on deceleration (0% accelerator). That way, as soon as you touch the gas (even 1%), your car drives like normal!
Worth noting that on the Roush, half the MPs are completely disabled from the factory (MP0-13). IMRC is also disabled because it has a supercharger, not the stock intake manifold. I believe the two are correlated. Some of the lower number map points are used from the factory, but then are disabled in aftermarket boosted applications. You have to check your MP scheduling and see what is enabled at idle. I used 11 because the cam angles were what I wanted and it was previously disabled. So, I knew it wouldn't be commanded elsewhere. In your case, you probably have more than one MP that is able to be commanded at idle, so it's oscillating. You need to figure out when MP0-1 are enabled at idle conditions and disable that. Also confirm in a log that you're using 'dashpot' at idle. If it's switching between dashpot and something else, something is wrong.
I did the same and i got ghost cam .. but some time its switch between mapes while crusing and sometimes not stay in one map and drive like garbage ..then write faliure in data log !! So any advice ?
Hey Rob! Used to have a ghost cam tune made by Luned on my '16 GT. Is it possibile achieve a similiar result on the LT1? I rember few years ago had a ghost tune made by Trifecta on my V6 Camaro, that had a very cool feature, that you could activate it and deactivate it with a button on the steering wheel... Would be cool have it on the C7!
Idk how you’d activate or deactivate it on the LT1 but I’m pretty sure it’s possible to do. There are a bunch of tutorials on how to do it on Gen 3/4 LS motors
@@randy2645 yeah I just didn’t want to give you bad info. I’d think it would be fine but I actually don’t know for sure. The guys at Lund would probably know
@@RobsHouse did on 2022 GT a10, when in drive, the rpm drops super low, then goes back up, and it’s really messed up, idle sounds amazing, it ghost cams really well, but in park or drive it messes up.
@@nkhanti6810 Yeah I don't have an auto car to play with, and my car is a gen 2 coyote. Main things to play with if it's hunting for idle like that is both the cam angles and also the torque management torque reserve. I had to lower the reserve on mine to get it to stop hunting like that. I'm sure the gen 3 motor behaves a little different too. Try a less aggressive cam angle to start with.
@nkhanti6810 I just did a car with a 6R80 transmission (Auto) and it worked fine. I just had to adjust the idle torque reserve in both neutral and in drive. Under idle -> torque -> idle torque reserve. The neutral table i set everything to 20 and the drive table i set it all to 30. I had the same issue before I did that where as soon as I put the truck in Drive, it started surging real bad. Once i adjusted the torque reserve, it was fine.
Great tutorial, tried your exact setup using my Absolute Load value of 0.2 from my '16 GT, it cam chops some times, and some times bogs down then idles at 1k back and forth, hoping I can tinker and solve this issue.
Yeah you'll have to play with it a bit. My car is supercharged, so copy/paste might not work on an NA vehicle. The concepts are the same though!
Interesting. Optimal Stability Distance (38209) is load based vs. temp on my Gen4.
Yeah a lot of stuff like that varies from generation to generation. That's not even unique to ford. The C7 Corvette, for example, has about 4 different configurations of driver demand tables. It's either accelerator vs rpm or accelerator versus vehicle speed and then the units are either pound feet of torque at the flywheel or pound feet of torque at the axle after final drive multiplier. Very annoying to deal with because you never know what configuration you're going to get. The fundamentals are the same, but you just have to adapt each time you tune one.
@@RobsHouse very true, and also very annoying lol. I've done a very similar ghost cam tune, followed your video and tried some settings. It works great up until operating temp - at which point it commands MP0 in what I assume is emissions reduction. But when this occurs, it never leaves MP0 while driving. 100% weighted on MP0. Any ideas? I'm sure there's something simple I've missed, but info on gen4 F150 tuning is slim at best right now.
@@RobsHouse and also when it's doing that - MP0 at operating temp - it's still using the limited timing at idle, 23 degrees or so.
Yeah I’m not sure. I go over how to force it into optimal stability mode or whatever mode you want to do the ghost cam in. But I’m in a gen 2 platform so there might be more tables for the gen 4
Very informative video ! I love the way you did the pops. Any reason why you did not go to the spark table it self to pull timing on decel ?
Yes! Newer systems like the newer Mustangs and the Gen 5 General Motors engine platforms rely on torque management to pull timing in a smooth manner to transition to fuel cut. If you just put insanely low timing numbers in your spark tables, you'll have two issues. First off, your car will jerk really badly as soon as you let off the gas because it will not smoothly retard the timing. It'll just go from 30-50 degrees immediately down to -10 or whatever you have it set to. Second, depending on the torque system, the torque management may actually fight you! For example, on GM vehicles, the torque management will actually add timing because it thinks your timing value is too low which will cause back and forth spark oscillations between your negative values and whatever it adds. So -10 to +20 back to -10 back to +20, etc etc. The car will jerk back and forth violently. I tried this method the first time I tried to burble tune my Corvette and it drove like absolute garbage. I then later did a video where I show how to modify the torque management system to get it to pull the timing for you and give you pops.
The other thing that can happen depending on how much tuning resolution you have in the spark table is that when you roll back onto the gas, you'll get massive hesitation until the cylinder airmass reaches a level beyond where you put the negative values for the burbles. So you cant roll back onto the accelerator gently. You'll feel like the car doesn't want to move. It is best to leave the main spark tables alone, adjust the minimum tables so that the ECM is allowed to pull a lot of timing (conditions permitting), and then play with the torque systems to get it to pull timing ONLY on deceleration (0% accelerator). That way, as soon as you touch the gas (even 1%), your car drives like normal!
Lower map points are related to IMRC from GEN2+
Makes sense. I guess Roush just disables IMRC cuz mine was already disabled with the factory tune.
@@RobsHouse cause you don't have IMRC with Supercharger usually 😊
Followed to a T and my idle is still swinging between MP11, and MP0-1 on idle
Worth noting that on the Roush, half the MPs are completely disabled from the factory (MP0-13). IMRC is also disabled because it has a supercharger, not the stock intake manifold. I believe the two are correlated. Some of the lower number map points are used from the factory, but then are disabled in aftermarket boosted applications. You have to check your MP scheduling and see what is enabled at idle. I used 11 because the cam angles were what I wanted and it was previously disabled. So, I knew it wouldn't be commanded elsewhere. In your case, you probably have more than one MP that is able to be commanded at idle, so it's oscillating. You need to figure out when MP0-1 are enabled at idle conditions and disable that. Also confirm in a log that you're using 'dashpot' at idle. If it's switching between dashpot and something else, something is wrong.
I did the same and i got ghost cam .. but some time its switch between mapes while crusing and sometimes not stay in one map and drive like garbage ..then write faliure in data log !! So any advice ?
There is no map switching in a factory ECM. Is it throwing you into limp mode?
Hey Rob! Used to have a ghost cam tune made by Luned on my '16 GT.
Is it possibile achieve a similiar result on the LT1? I rember few years ago had a ghost tune made by Trifecta on my V6 Camaro, that had a very cool feature, that you could activate it and deactivate it with a button on the steering wheel...
Would be cool have it on the C7!
Idk how you’d activate or deactivate it on the LT1 but I’m pretty sure it’s possible to do. There are a bunch of tutorials on how to do it on Gen 3/4 LS motors
Does this work on a gt350?
I’m not sure! I haven’t done one. Give it a try and let us know!
Interesting video, Will the ghost cam tune (if used occasionally) shorten the life of cats? Or even high flow cats?
I believe it will but I’m not sure by how much to be honest.
@@RobsHouse People say it will but that makes no sense because the Boss 302 came with the ghost cam from Factory.
@@randy2645 yeah I just didn’t want to give you bad info. I’d think it would be fine but I actually don’t know for sure. The guys at Lund would probably know
I tried this on my gen 3 the car turns off sometimes and i get misfire with check engine light 😢
Did you play with the idle torque reserve settings?
@@RobsHouse did on 2022 GT a10, when in drive, the rpm drops super low, then goes back up, and it’s really messed up, idle sounds amazing, it ghost cams really well, but in park or drive it messes up.
@@nkhanti6810 Yeah I don't have an auto car to play with, and my car is a gen 2 coyote. Main things to play with if it's hunting for idle like that is both the cam angles and also the torque management torque reserve. I had to lower the reserve on mine to get it to stop hunting like that. I'm sure the gen 3 motor behaves a little different too. Try a less aggressive cam angle to start with.
@nkhanti6810 I just did a car with a 6R80 transmission (Auto) and it worked fine. I just had to adjust the idle torque reserve in both neutral and in drive. Under idle -> torque -> idle torque reserve. The neutral table i set everything to 20 and the drive table i set it all to 30. I had the same issue before I did that where as soon as I put the truck in Drive, it started surging real bad. Once i adjusted the torque reserve, it was fine.
Tied following but I'm guessing yours is a Gen 2, my HP tuners seems to be much different