Equal Dragon Weapon: Glorified Fan Fiction Or Real Lore?
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- čas přidán 17. 06. 2020
- Originally, when I decided to make this video, it was going to be vastly different. I thought I’d be delving into the lore of Monster Hunter and exploring some dark aspects of humanities history in the series, but that didn’t end up being the case. Rather, what I found was a large amount of concepts that haven’t been introduced fully to the series, and from these concepts a lot of speculation from fans. Well the fact is, we don’t actually know a lot about this stuff because it’s not real. The Equal Dragon Weapon, as of now, isn’t real, the Great Dragon War doesn’t actually have a lot of information about it at all, and the information revolving around Fatalis is mostly fan theories at best.
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What did you think of the video? Have you ever run into some Monster Hunter facts that didn't necessarily turn out to be true? What video would you like to see next in between my main history series? let me know and thanks for watching!
Yes, years ago there were a couple of videos made by YTr called Basil (he deleted his channel); those were the only videos back then covering the lore of the series. I, like many, took them as word & gospel until I later found out they were somewhat inaccurate, made a ton of assumptions and mixed things from Frontier lore with the main canon, still entertaining though.
I do hope Capcom learns from Frontier in how to expand on the lore of MH and maybe even bring some of the better monsters and concepts to the main series.
Frontier lore is still cool for sure. All of the concept work and lore through non-canon games can be very entertaining, and I'd love to cover it at some point.
RageGamingVideos, they keep shitting out lore that is either misinterpreted or just straight up bs like Nerscylla’s not being fully grown
@@BirdFungus or Yian Garuga being a bastard of a Rathian and Yian Kutku
@@manuelsaavedra8081 ye, they have no clue what the hell they are talking about half the time
I remember when Generations Ultimate was coming out, a lot of people believed that the Equal Dragon Weapon was finally appearing. At the end of one of the trailers, a giant mechanical looking dragon appeared and everyone expected that to be it. However, it was actually Ahtal-Ka, a Neopteron which was basically a scavenger, taking treasures and metal for itself. It would construct this giant mechanics dragon and use it almost like a large armor. While it isn't the Equal Dragon Weapon, it's still a really cool idea and makes me wonder if it was inspired at all by it.
It’s just a mecha, maybe because this game comes from the country of Mechas. I’m kind of disappointed about you.
Yes
@@LordangeloxD Didn't know Japan had giant mechas walking around its streets.
@@bnewtz7492
I mean... They have a giant Gundam that can move.
Gogmazios may or may not be it. It eats gunpowder, integrates old weaponry into itself, and is constantly falling apart.
There was clearly an ancient war against SOMETHING larger than what we face in game, Lotta old weapons lying around
Ya there was and i dont think it was fatalis either but fatalis ended up being the reason schrade fell at the very least
Im wondering if the reason was jiiva tho but older and more experience with its abilities and i kind of wonder if the original may be around to
I also had a theory that maybe fatalis, since a lot of lore on him usually points towards him being unnatural, was created or birthed by the old civilization somehow but it backfired on them likely due to possible years of abuse that fatalis wasn't gonna take anymore when he saw the opportunity to get revenge and burn down schrade castle
Originally the old civilization was gonna use fatalis to fight off whatever it was that threatened the old civilization which im assuming is joiva or something that was similar to jiiva and had the same goal as jiiva is apparently supposed to have which is wipe out all humans for threatening the ecosystem
So i wonder if safi'jiiva, when more grown up and learnt to master its abilities, might end up gaining the ability to drain the life force directly from a monster or human/wyverian themselves or even through the earth itself which is why the old civilization created fatalis
Maybe fatalis was somehow created or birthed by the old civilization with no monster energy whatsoever and due to that he can effectively hunt down a jiiva and burn down any of there nests similar to the one we see at the end of mhw and during the final stage of the safi'jiiva siege with the hatched eggs we see in the background
@@traceyjacobsen8544 High end Elder Dragons like Jiva and Dalamadur can really tear the environment apart, and we see exactly how big Dalas can get in World thanks to it's skeleton. Fatalis being on the small side does imply it's younger, or even fits the same role the equal dragon weapon would have. Could be a failed monster subjugation prior to the invention of Riding.
It could have been other people. That's usually how civilizations fall.
those mons are literally from the “new world” i think we should be looking to the old world,.. and one such mon could be gogmazios, or dalamadur big ass mons so powerful and corrupted by it that even fatalis it self should think it twice before doing shit
@@traceyjacobsen8544 Fatalis as an artificial elder sounds pretty damn neat.
Kind of like the Indominus Rex or Godzilla in a sense.
The spikes on the neck of the equal dragon weapon look like the spikes on the ravager blade. Coincidence? Most likely
It is cool to look at the thing and see familiar bits of other MH designs, the most obvious being the red scales of rathalos, and the eerily diablos-esque horns
Look at the arms bro they look like metal vambraces
what's next? you gonna tell me the kelbidrome isn't real?
Isnt that just Kirin?
@@wyattwebb6963 not quite, look it up
What I love about it is that we have about as much proven info as the guild has. It's super easy to see that perhaps the same theories and stories that we throw around in regards to the Ancients and The Great Dragon War the historians and folk tale tellers of the MH world are also throwing around. I don't know about you guys but that makes my immersion into the world so much better.
One of the best lore videos because you actually know they're concepts. Things like the dragon war and EDW like you talked about have never been mentioned in any MH main line game (were not counting Frontier here which doesn't even exist now). It's a concept that was abandoned because the series took a different direction since MH1.
Exactly, I think it's more responsible to frame them as they are, then some dark fantasy that doesn't actually exist.
Whats "abandon" can easily be pick up again & re-use for future content in the monster hunter series. Its why I think EDW will make its appearance one day as a dlc for future MH games
@@DatBoiRatchet Zero chance lmao.
@@DatBoiRatchet yes theoretically it could be used, but look at the direction the series went, aside from some edgy bois and scary black dragons, Monster Hunter is very light hearted and is very light on lore and no overarching plot between games, it just doesnt fit with the direction the series went
“Their”
Honestly I'd just want to fight the Equal Dragon Weapon. Lore wise it sounds interesting but I'd love to see this thing come to life giving it an interesting moveset.
Imagine there is one buried under the ruins of Schrade, deactivated, and it's found when the guild investigates Schrade further, now that it's safe to explore, and they accidently unleash it.
The armor and weapons would look badass
i like to imagine it's piloted by a psychotic wyverian with nothing but bloodlust on his mind, waking poetic about the end of life itself. but i know MH doesn't have the balls to kill off a humanoid in their games.
7:21 Well... Actually... (MHWI Fatalis melting hunters in his chest)
That's what happens though. Fatalis lies on you and you get stuck to his chest because of it's sheer heat.
@@Edognightcrest Nah he is literally trying tho, He straight pounces on you and sticks you on there if you hittem with the pods he toss the hunter off lol.
So yeah, its not a random act , he knows damn well wat he's doing
@@knitetimeteddy2989 fatalis pectus
A fiendish carapace that consists of the molten armor of it's foes
(idk if this is completely correct)
I could picture a Monster Hunter game revolving around our hunter protecting a nomadic crew of archeologists investigating ancient ruins throughout the Old World, similar to the 4th gen games. As we hunt, we could also study and collect various historical artifacts similar to the relics of Rise and Sunbreak or the Surveyor Set from Iceborne.
As you study more ruins, more is revealed about the past civilizations: their day-to-day lives, their superior technology, and even the ancient war.
Ultimately, it would end with a conflict against the EDW and, naturally, some sort of ancient monster or Black Dragon.
P.s. as an aside, back when I started the game in Tri and also 4u, I was really enthralled by the ruins dotted around the maps, and I wish we could learn about them in greater detail than just meager speculation.
Thanks for making this video. There's been a minority of fans for years who have been saying very similar things to your conclusion but to little effect. It's really hopeful for future lore hunters that this video exists in such well researched, easy to understand and consume format. Maybe now we'll start seeing less talk about the Equal Dragon Weapon as fact, and more talk about it being just a never implemented concept or idea, all thanks to you!
It is still interesting to see these concepts ideas take shape and influence or inspire certain design elements of the game though. Take the Great Dragon War for example. There is no explicit mention in the series about this war, only concept art and ideas. That said, if you look at the 'Worn' weapon class in the games - ancient weapons said to be wielded by ancient civilisation hunters - when fully restored to their original forms, they have frighteningly high dragon elemental attack, usually the highest element values in the game outright, but very poor physical raw attack. This does imply a most peculiar use case for ancient hunters being that of dragon slaying, and goes so far as to possibly imply the ancients exerting great control over the dragon element, whatever it may be. Perhaps more interesting however is the alternative upgrade route of these worn weapons, in which you combine the weapon with wandering elder dragon parts, particularly Kushala and Teostra parts, to create new weapons all together. This mirrors the ideas behind the Equal Dragon Weapon a little too closely for comfort. Combine this with facets of the Monster Hunter world like the prevalence of enormous ruins, the guilds long standing philosophy of being one with nature and only ever taking what you need, and the general post-post-calamity vibe of the game's setting in general and you can easily see how these non-lore concept ideas have still influenced the direction of the series. The Equal Dragon Weapon and the Great Dragon War are fiction (for now), but their influence is very real.
That's all. You're doing amazing work with your videos. I'm looking forward to what you have in store for us next.
If you dont show that you believe its real or show no Interest in it at all, the chances of it becoming Reality are rather slim, i do believe in those Theories and want the Concepts to be reality, but how are we supposed to talk about it as a "never implemented concept or idea" without turning it into Theories at all? you cant, we are already doing what you Suggested with little information as is given we only can Speculate
This video was amazing.
This has inspired me to create loadouts, each one a hunter using mixed sets....as each hunter will be the result of the equal dragon weapon technology, being used in secret, on humans first.
What are the loadouts you've created?
There are 3 main reasons I believe led to lot of confusion among fans:
1)Confusing in-game legends or intentionally unsure/foggy things as facts.
2)Speculation going too far.
3)CAPCOM
To be honest I blame most of it on Capcom.
They can litterally fix several problems with simple posts on socials or sentences in their books... But they don't and never did.
They locked and still lock most of the informations behind a language barrier for most.
And they simply left other tons of things vague... too vague, even for the japanese audience.
It's just a shame, it seems they totally don't care.
Especially considering how Frontier and Frontier devs were the opposite regarding the canon and lore of Frontier.
By the way most of the Ancient Civilisation infos and several "scrapped concepts" people talk about got reused or reworked in Frontier.
A problem of the old pages of the wiki is that it mixes the infos from all the games and books, it's bound to cause confusion to most that may easily take everything a single canon.
Nice video by the way.
Thanks for watching. Luckily we are getting a new discovery book soon and I'll be procuring it and the illustration books to help create more informative vids!
Tyr is that you.
I disagree. When you search up Monster Hunter lore on Google the first links are the wiki's that state all this non-canon lore as if it is fact. I'm confident that's a huge reason so many people have these ideas in their head.
@@HowIin I agree with you
@@HowIin Because they got it wrong? How many fans who gathered this information knows japanese?
Maybe the real equal dragon weapon were the friends we made along the way
There clearly was some sort of ancient civilization, and something happened to make them make them fall. We know as much about their extinction as we do about the dinosaurs. It's just like how ancient history works irl. Everything we know consists of theories, myths, and rumors. But as Monster Hunter has proven before, sometimes, stories come true. Such as Fatalis consciously melting hunters into its chest, which it does in Iceborne.
Fatalis only destroyed schrade, its not confirmed that Fatalis wiped out the entire civilization.
@@slenderhatesmillennials195 Well yeah but actually no, it was white fatalis that destroyed shrade. We don't know why Black Fatalis was in shrade in previous games and in Icebourne. Dire Miralis also brought about the extinction of all sea life around him. These monsters are more than capable of wiping out civilizations. Shrade isn't the name of the castle. It's the name of country where the castle is and white Fatalis made a short work of it, a whole country full of advanced technology who originally made the blueprints of weapons like gunlance, switch axe and Chargeblade, so whether he wiped out the civilization is true or not it doesn't matter, it is more likely that he is capable of such feat. Since the ancient civilization is a reality based on item description ingame and recently the artrian armour i don't know how it's spelled is the latest proof of it's existence in icebourne. The reason why it isn't present is a prolf good enough that it was wiped out. Whether it was Fatalis or not is speculation but it was something responsible for their unexplained absence.
@@stephenjohn2131 bruh white fatalis is not cannon
@@hugo-pg5tv nope hes canon
@@Skibbutz he is not canon lol there is no records of him existing same with crimson fatalis they are all fair tales by the old wyverians
Yo, so I've heard that "Fatalis is so hot it melts the armor and weapons of humans just by nearing them," quote attributed to the recently released artbook, but I haven't seen any source for the reference. The most reliable MH lore experts (BannedLagiacrus et al.) haven't made explicit reference to it either. Could you show where it is in the artbook, and the full context? Fatalis is my favorite monster in the series, and I'm eager to learn whatever scraps I can... but I want them to be accurate scraps!
Hey, that's a great question. There's a book that is only in Japanese atm which was released for the games 15th anniversary. It has multiple illustrations and talks about Monster Ecology. I believe that book is the one that clarifies Fatalis.
SuperRADIKAHL Yes, what I wouldn’t give to be able to read that art book. As this video shows, it’s hard to shuffle the fan theories from the lore supported by developers, and a big contributor to that is the barrier of access-the recent ecological tree for Elder Dragons, which confirmed Dire Miralis split off from Fatalis’s family and is thus a close relative, was only in Japanese, for instance.
Thanks, though! I’ll wait until someone inevitably scans the art book, lol.
@@SuperRADLemon the most reliable lore comes from a guy with less than 200 subs?
Fight the new fatalis, that fact is canon, his 3rd phase pin melts u to his chest
this guy must've poggered to a new dimension when he saw mhw fatalis
well we now know that fatalis does melt hunters into its armor by the new grab attack it has in world, but it might just be that it runs over you and you just stick to its chest, either way it does look like it
Correct, he does now have the pin move. The thing most people like to latch onto is this weird idea that he maliciously like to melt people overtime because he hates humanity, which isn't the case.
@@SuperRADLemon people also think he's immortal. I have seen discussions where several people talk about stuff like fatalis vs nergi using fatalis "immortality" as a genuine argument. The misinformation really needs to stop. Ive met people who refuse to accept that the EDW isnt canon because, and i quote "capcom could make it canon in the future so its canon for the moment"
@@eiriksundby Yep. I've debated plenty of people on the immortality thing.
The only one that might be "immortal" is Dire Miralis cuz the creepy heart-beating thing
@@sanguineregis5354 nah he's not immortal either
I believe in the equal dragon weapon like I believe in Santa.
Love on how all the little things from Fatalis in Iceborne is like “this is made from parts of old hunter gear” and “it is said that Fatalis can come back from a single scale, people who wear its armor go crazy and end up missing”
Why would anyone wear a Armor made out of him then? Or even make it? People be crazy in the MH World.
@@kingknightisbestknight7398 it basically makes you a god until you’re fully taken over
Think of it as berserk armor that guts wear
I think there supposed to just be myths and legends but possibly unknowingly/unintentionally true or there is at least some truth behind them
They turned into the fatalist it self
When I first saw Alatreon back in generation 3, juggling all kinds of crazy elemental attacks, it gave me a man-made or at least mutation-kind of vibe. I didn't know about this equal dragon weapon thing until now, but that sounds strangely similar to what I came up with way back when.
Because of course some sort of magical Eevee dragon can't be natural, right? Flawless logic, younger me.
Draconeon XD
to me elder dragons are personifications of natural disasters, storms, volcanoes, etc
and alatreon is the just another personification
but it isn't limited to natural disasters because as I interpret it fatalises are a manifestation of nature's grudge against humanity for causing it so much devastation during ancient times
@@Dzombic_ i think thats what certain elders are or there the very embodiment of nature itself in one way or another
Nergigante sort of seems to be either a challenger or balancer to me and fatalis seems to of been a monster that was done wrong by the old civilization which gave it, its pure hatred towards humanity
Then there's jiiva who seems to be natures wrath itself
I never believe in EDW, but after iceborne, I know that the Guild in game is capcom themself, back then the black dragon used to be a secret, myth, forbidden monster, but after iceborne the moment capcom start revealing more lore about fatalis and alatreon, the guild ingame also start talking about this, so maybe they are role playing here, capcom said it's just a concept art nothing important is just like guild telling us it just a myth
Found your Monster Hunter videos recently and knew I had to instantly subscribe. It seems like you're covering this stuff better than some similar videos I've seen and I cant wait to see more! The information from the Encyclopedias is really interesting and something that I'm sure many other Western fans would love to see covered. They are exclusively in Japanese aren't they? No matter what you decide to cover I am here for it though!
Glad you enjoy it! Yes, I really want to get my hands on physical copies of the MH works, so I can go into further detail.
it's just some scrapped idea from that person on designer team who was a Evangelion fan.
loved the video! most sources or people who talk about this stuff state it as fact, wich isn't true a lot of the time, so I'm glad you made a very honest and well researched video.
also, in general, a lot of lore info on the wiki is made up, from what I know. or, it's atleast nearly impossible to tell what is and what isn't made up. the only stuff I know for sure are some of the pages that were updated after banned lagiacrus covered them on twitter, and he probably updated those pages himself with ow well they are sourced. it's really unfortunate, as it means that getting accurate monster hunter lore is really hard for people who don't speak japanese.
Yeah I've seen him be fairly active on the wiki. The fact is we can only take what we get from the art books and encyclopedias so far.
@@SuperRADLemon yeah, but unfortunately, most of the lore books are japan only, wich makes getting the lore so difficult.
Guess I'm learning Japanese LOL
@@SuperRADLemon I know this is probably a joke, and it is a funny joke, but it would be pretty helpful...
of course,you don't have to learn a completely different language just so we can understand more MH lore. unless you want to.
You on YT too? Nice
“the equal dragon weapon isn’t real” . none of this is real
Whoa
SuperRADIKAHL yeah I had to break out the galaxy brain for that one. On an unrelated note I have been absolutely loving your “History of Monster Hunter” series, you deserve way more subs for such high quality content
Man, I can't believe your awesome channel wasn't recommended to me before, keep up the good work!
Hey, thanks!
Thanks for this video. Been looking for a video about this for a while now.
Glad it was helpful!
Maybe they are not canon but the legacy of some of those concepts live on in one form or another.
Secondly Call me a Delusional man or something but to me theres something very off with those "Black Dragons". why are they feared much? can't deny they are very hostile and powerful. But there are some others whose are nearly the same level of Creepynes/Destructivenes/hostility. So why are they are Forbidden and Feared as living natural disasters and others on the same level don't?
(I Know game mechanic but still)
YOU are the one that made the " A Brief History of Fire Emblem" videos?! The more you know... Well, I just got here from reddit, but looks like its time to subscribe hahaha
Some early and rough videos but my most successful :) Thanks for watching and subscribing!!
@@SuperRADLemon Thank YOU man :D
These are concepts from a time where there were plans for 2 headed zombie monsters and warlock hunters. It's obviously not canon anymore
While I have done similar research into the EDW and came to the same sort of conclusion as you, the inner EdgeLord in me would really like it to be in the game anyway at some point lol. Mostly I think it would be a fucking cool ass fight, rather than what it would mean for the lore like some people seem to think.
I think Fatty does melt hunters to himself on purpose. In world, when he pins you, he heats up his chest and shoved you onto it. And if he can just heat himself up willingly, and has the intelligence to do that, what’s to say he doesn’t melt people on purpose
It really is strange how much info youll find about this stuff online considering all this info has only ever been mentioned once in passing in a paragraph from an artbook from more than a decade ago specifically in the section regarding scrapped ideas
the barest hint of detail often leads to wild speculation
@@liamzakhaev what makes it weirder is how people treat it as canon when it's stated that it's not
@@eiriksundbythe problem is the equal dragon weapon is a sliver of a deeper overarching plot, canon or otherwise.
@@liamzakhaevwell there's no reason to think it's canon so i kinda dislike how people spread misinformation everywhere. Too many people think everything the wiki says about it is canon
It would help if MH actually delved into its lore so that the confusion is halted.
I really love the idea of it all, the equal dragon weapon and the dragon war. Maybe Capcom didn’t intend for the world of Monster Hunter to look and feel it is a post apocalyptic/Great War world but it fits something happened that made the day nice great civilizations fall violently. The equal dragon weapon makes it all epic, humans get more bold and arrogant start taking everything for granted wearing nature’s patience thin when that abomination is created she decides enough is enough with that great taboo humanity needed to be punished the world went through a huge reset this the game world we know today. It may be no canon but it makes the franchise cooler.
Well now I'm just confused. The ancient civilization is clearly canon as there is plenty of evidence within the games. But as for the weapon, the dragon war, and the bits about Fatalis, what parts are actually real? At the end there it was really unclear what was real, made up, or just concepts.
It seems during the development of Monster Hunter they throw many ideas to see which would work and which not. Even it was gonna be much more higher fantasy with monsters like hydras and goblins. Most of the ideas had been scratched but some of them still resonated in the games like ancient ruins and Elder dragons capable of destroying the world. If they are gonna bring up the so called Equal Dragon Weapon or not one day is unknown.
Is not unheard of studios putting away concept ideas for many years until they finally decide what to do with it.
Like how Nioh was gonna be based on a script of Akira Kurosawa, but it was during the time Dark Souls becomed popular they finally knew what kind of videogame they wanted to make.
I wish capcom made the equal dragon weapon and the great dragon war canon. It would have been a very interesting piece of lore in monster hunter.
Concepts like The Equal Dragon Weapon, the origins of the Artian Armor, and various weapons like Obelisk is interesting, along with many things in Frontier. It's still fun to speculate
If I were to put the EDW in any future Monster Hunter title, I'd make the EDW a product some wyverians made that got loose instead of an ancient civilization creation. Also I would design it so it would have pupils-less eyes, a kind of homage to M.Bison and Sigma.
No screw it I want White Fatalis
I’d love to see a monster hunter game that introduces the EDW. Maybe have a research commission similar to the fifth fleet in world, but more focused on colonization than research. The hunter is part of a somewhat shady part of the guild, where slaying monsters becomes less of a necessity and more of a flex of skill and power. Dubious morals abound, and the blacksmith and leader of the commission always seem to be doing something. To progress in the game, you have to drop off scales and other parts of monsters you’ve killed to the blacksmith. The game could lead up to a Fatalis fight, a local Fatalis that sees the damage your commission is doing and is out to stop it. The final boss can lead up to this elder dragon, where it presents itself, before being struck down by a massive mix of metal and flesh with a horrible, mechanical roar. The final boss can literally be made from the other creatures you’ve shot down.
You could take it a step further by either having the Fatalis survive or have other famous elders come forward and help you destroy the abomination.
Just a pitch. There’s so much you can do with the idea of the EDW.
They should make the EDW cannon, shit they should make ALL of this cannon. It’s just so interesting
数多の竜を討伐した古代兵器 竜機兵。
その大きさはラオシャンロンに等しく爪の太さはジエンモーランやゴグマジオスを思い出させる。さらに頭部に設備された角はナバルデウスに匹敵する。だが、古龍には敵わず、非常にグロテスクな見た目へと変わり果ててしまった。恐らく発見されたあの倉庫では竜機兵の修理を行っていたが何らかの影響により近づかざるを得なくなったのだろう。
lol saw ur vid when scrolling through the MHW subreddit. Hope ur doing well, small world
Lmao good to hear from you, man. Thanks for taking the time to reach out and watch the vid
One day I want a monster Hunter game that has every monster. Even the concept ones, I wanna fight EVERYTHING.
I have recently arrived at an answer that may reconcile the two possible ends of the Ancient Civilization(s).
The real cause was - as stated by the series' directors, IIRC - that the Ancient Civilizations over-hunted monsters to such a degree that the world's ecosystems were all thrown into chaos. This may have caused a spike in encounters with elder dragons in conflicts over dwindling resources. This, in turn, may have caused the Civilizations to develop such things as the Dragon Hunters and the Equal Dragon Weapon - but these encounters weren't enough to be truly called a war.
However, the Hunter's Guild _has_ grasped the actual truth about over-hunting. But how could they explain the _necessity_ of monsters to people who can't (or won't) educate themselves about the complexity of nature's balance? Thus, the Guild intentionally exaggerates the scale of the conflicts with elder dragons from being a series of frequent but unrelated skirmishes to a long, continuous battle of epic scope. The myth serves as a means to keep the general populace respectful of nature, even if it's through fear; plus, it justifies the Guild's existence - they ultimately serve to regulate hunting...they protect monsters from men just as much as they protect men from monsters.
Think it be cool to have a MonHun story revolve around discovering more about the ancient civilization. And some how lop it around where we have to fight an Equal Dragon weapon. Maybe even have like a full Circle moment where we step in and save a Fatalis from it.
It'd really clash with everything monster hunter is about tho. The idea of the ancient civilization and the EDW go against mh's tone in such a huge way
@@eiriksundby agreed
I thought the ancient Civilization was Canon though?
And as far as the EDW. I think it works as this idea of an abomination to Nature.
Part of MonHun (to me at least) is how hunters do safe gaurd the balance of the ecosystem.
It's one of those things that needs to be handled correctly, or it just won't flow right.
@@hihibye2324 the ancient civilization was never canon. There exists ancient civilizations tho. Emphasis on the plural. But no there was never one big empire that ruled the world. Like the ruins in mh4 are a totally different civilization from the ones in mh3. And as for the EDW. It's such a garbage concept for a monster hunter game. Monster hunter is lighthearted silly shenanigans at all times. Stuff like the EDW belongs in warhammer with how overly edgy and ridiculous it is
@@eiriksundby that's just me bot communicating properly. When I think or say ancient civilization I'm not thinking one singular super Empire. That's my bad.
And the EDW doesn't seem any more dark than Xeno Jiva. It just have to be handled properly. Not the Edge teen Fanfic some folks want it to be.
Something I like to think is that the ancient civilization was similar to the Roman Empire
Vast but with regional differences.
This would explain why ruins are present in so many different regions that share things like dragonators but differ in design
Then, Schrade was destroyed and that caused the civilization to fall and eventually be forgotten, similar to how for a very long time, our world forgot many things about Rome.
Like how we forgot how they made their concrete, the people of Monster Hunter forgot how to build charge blades and such until they were rediscovered.
And the civilization falling like that would also explain why the ruins seem to have just decayed instead of being destroyed by attacks, they were just abandoned by people who had no need for them anymore
*In reaction to the Equal Deagon Weapon* "Looks like a corpse doesn't it? It is. Infact, it's HUNDREDS of corpses. And I quote; 30 herds worth of dragon meat. And if you think if that's bad enough-No no...this thing is alive..."
Considering how fast-and-loose the series plays with the sapience of monsters, I wouldn't necessarily consider using them for labor as "slavery" or a sign of the ancient civilization being morally bankrupt. Beasts of burden have been a staple of human civilization even to this day.
Though, the creation of something like the Equal Dragon Weapon... if it's even canon... is pretty well depraved and speaks to something certainly being wrong with them-however, that begs a question all of its own: did this ancient civilization build it because they wanted to, or because they _had_ to? The Tower being reminiscent of the Tower of Babel is certainly an indicator of the civilization's arrogance, but that doesn't really answer how a civilization that could kill dragons in such mass quantities to (potentially) use them as construction materials was then brought down by those same dragons revolting. Even if the tidbit about towers being built from dragons _wasn't_ true, it's hard to believe a civilization so much more technologically advanced could fail where hunters succeed.
If I were to speculate, I think one of two things might've been the case...
A) That there is something out there far more powerful than the monsters hunters fight today. Perhaps a relative, or even just a more brutal ancestor of the modern Fatalis? Or perhaps something else altogether? Obviously, we'll never know until such a time as we encounter it in-game. Humankind invoked its ire in some way, and the Equal Dragon Weapon was the only solution available. If you wanna get real tricky, it may have actually been content to leave humanity alone until they created the Equal Dragon Weapon, which is what finally invited its wrath (though, of course, humans didn't know this). This beast may have even been able to control other dragons, hence the Great Dragon War.
B) That the beasts that felled the old civilization were the Equal Dragon Weapons themselves. Going with this theory, the Equal Dragon Weapon would've been created to stamp-out monsters in the same way humans used to eradicate local predator threats like wolves and for much the same reasons. However, at some point, the civilization lost control over those very same weapons and were unable to stand-up against the might of their own creation. Fortunately, the Equal Dragon Weapons were finite in number as they couldn't reproduce... and may well have been opposed by monsters as much as by humans... and so they were finally defeated at great cost.
Stumbled across this video thanks to the youtube algorithm, good video.
My thoughts on the matter? I understand that the Great Dragon War is no longer the accepted canon, and I *think* this came about of Monster Hunter World's release, as a lot of new lore it introduced retconned a lot of the old stuff we had to go on, not too sure on that as I'm only going off of what I remember. At any rate, I'm a little disappointed that the "old canon" is no longer, well... canon, because I really liked the stories about the Great Dragon War and the like, as it seemed to suggest that Monster Hunter was set in the future of our world and to be honest. I think that is cool as fuck.
Oh well, it is what it is, though. While I'm sad to see the old canon die, there's always potential for new and more interesting grounds to be set.
I'm STILL mad we have never gotten to fight it.
I know the EDW will never appear but I always thought that it would be cool to make it’s armor by using a combination of elder dragon parts and different ores.
I think it would be cool to see the Equal Dragon Weapon appearing as a boos fight in a game. Like, imagine a storyline in which a scientist finds ancient documents of the EDW, and decides to make it a reality, but the weapon becomes self aware and goes berserk. I imagine it as being a hybrid of the several monsters used to make it, using their movesets and behaviour, and when defeated and you get to carve from it, the EDW would give you it's unique materials, but also materials from other monsters as well
I would really like a monster hunter game where the story is about the old civilisation
The speculation kind of fits with the lore though doesn't it? There's something to be said about the similarities between stories of Fatalis and the Equal Dragon Weapon being shared by hunters, and the stories shared by sailors at sea about the giant kraken and the shark known as the "Black Demon". In a weird way it almost feels intentional that so much canonical lore is hard to come by, for that reason.
I wanna fight one with a glaive and a cool battle butterfly.
So today I desided to customize my guild card(something I havent done sense mhw realized on gamepass years back) and Im wathing all the backgrounds you can have, and their is this one called Machines and Steam which has a mechanical looking monster on the back. It may be me over thinking, but could that be the man made monster?
If we ever got to hunt an Equal Dragon Weapon would be badass and image the armor and weapons we could make with it.
here's my 2cents when it come's to the great dragon war "lore", there's not enough evidence from both ingame and in lore books (with the sole exception being that ONE very early concept art of the equal dragon weapon), the main issue is that this whole event is revolved around this massive super advance civilization that went to war with elder's and yet if you look at the map's with old abandoned tower's or building's they show no sign's of there ever being a battle no claw mark's on walls or even battle damage on said buildings to even indicate such a thing happened and non of the npc characters even mention's that a war is even a possibility in fact its mention that its mostly likely abandoned but for what reason we still don't know, not to mention that there are actually multiple ancient civilizations within the mh world which the great dragon wars story fails to mention and it also doesn't factor in were wyvrians and Lynians fit into all of this (like you would think that something like the wyverians with the great knowledge and superiors engineering skill's would've at least be mentioned or played a part in that war?), and the depiction of elder's just does not match up with what's been shown in game and lore book's with great dragon war story making them out to be intelligent enough to actually declarer and go to war with a nation when thats just not the case.
and when you actually sit down and think about it the the whole dragon wars thing is just an overblown version of fatalis attacking the shrade kingdom story line, just with more dragons involved and the shrade being the advance.
Now when it come to actual lore pertaining to fatalis i don't know if you've been paying attention but there seem's to be somewhat of a linear story line being told from 1st gen all the way to 4th gen , i realized this when i went back and replayed mhfu and it all hit me when took a closer look at that giant fatalis great sword from pokke village, one of the thing's that bothered me about fatalis's lore was why would it suddenly attack the schrade kingdom for seemingly no reason? but that giant great sword finally gave the reason i was looking, and so from what i've gathered info from pokke village chiefs history and piecing all the little crumb's both in game and in lore book's that Capcom has left us it seem's that wayyyyyyy back in the past before the fall of scastle schrade there was a legendary massive wyverian hunter (not his Immenseness) who was the ancestor to the pokke village's chief, he is currently the only inhabitant of the mh world to have successfully hunted and probably slain a fatalis (which is a massive feat given that fatalis can wipe out an entire kingdom with ease), he was probably the reason why fatalis attacked schrade in the first place, (granted i don't know if the fatalis survived the encounter with the pokke village's ancestor or was another individual seeking revenge for the death of one of it's kind), we know that fatalis resided in the now destroyed castle schrade for many decades until mh1 role's around and using the newly acquired info from the 15th anniversary event about the black dragon and ingame item description we now know that crimson fatalis is technically unofficial variant of black fatalis similar to the one horned diablos, so when mh1 roles around we know that at some point someone (probably the playable hunter character) manage's to drive off fatalis from castle schrade and break one of it's horn's in the process, fatalis flee's to the volcanic region to mend it wounds and now when mhg roles around we discover that fatali's greatly enrage by its defeat has now changed it's appearance becoming blood red and now sporting an overgrown horn ( i dont know if the guild ever officially sent any hunter's to try and hunt crimson) but skip over to mh4u its now been discovered that over time crimson just got even more powerfull and now has become the grank crimson .
this was what i was able to gather when it come's to fatalis's lore.
Very in depth analysis about what you found, I'm impressed. I'd like to see more giant Wyverians in the future.
@@SuperRADLemon that would require the series to make a massive time skip, since it is said that only one appears once every thousand years, I hope that his immenseness is one of those self important people.
@@007accessb4 well, fatalis is said to be able to regenerate fully from a scale alone, so who's to say that these appearances aren't happening at the same time, each fatalis being regenerated from the far spread scales of a long dead fatalis
@@blight00000 yeeeeeah said to be but not really, like it's kind of true that fatalis can regenerate but if the pokke village's massive fatalis great sword is anything to go by fatalis cant really regrow back from a single scale cause the blade does regenerate but isn't really as exaggerated as the rumor's make it out to be cause if so then pokke village would be sprouting baby fatalis's left and right. (a core theme with fatalis in iceborne after you defeat it is the npc's start to question the legitimacy of the legends surrounding fatalis with the seeker even questioning if fatalis could really bring the end to mankind)
@@007accessb4 that makes a lot of sense, but what if the reason why the fatalis sword hasn't regenerated back into a fatakis is because people keep breaking parts off of it for resources?
BEST VID YET
DO PUZZLE PIRATES
Something or civilization so strong that it can use an elder dragon the wind dragon Kushala Daora just to be an building materials, I know we as player are hailed as a hero, we can somehow solo Fatalis, but it's something so strong that we can't even comprehend, whatever it is, it's gone now remind me of all tomorrow, the Qu, came wreck havoc then leave
This was good! Wonderfully explained. However, I have one major complaint:
*WHY DID YOU PRONOUNCE KUSHALA DAORA LIKE THAT IT HURTS*
Haha, I'm guessing you prefer Day-or-ah?
@@SuperRADLemon ding ding ding! Correct!
I'll try to keep it in mind for future vids!
@@SuperRADLemon Don't give it much weight. Pronounce it however you prefer until we get an official pronounciation
@@SuperRADLemon I pronounce it that way but your pronunciation sounds 👌👌👌
Love the cave punk style of these games
Ya know.... The Dragon Weapon resembles the Gear Rex in Peace Walker....👀
The equal dragon weapon IS in the monster hunter series. Psycho-mantis got ahold of it
Ah yes
Personally I like to think that the people in MH arew just really superstitious
I mean, Fatalis' very existence was kept in the shadows by the guild gor a very long time with hunters being sent in secret to kill it, and Alatreon's records were straight up purged, but why?
As evident by us killing both of these monsters in-game (and us not being "the chosen ones", we're just damn good hunters) its clear that, while extremely powerful, possibly even enough to destroy small kingdoms, they aren't "Destroy the world" powerful. Even still, people fear them.
We got that whole song about Fatalis and the whole burned-records with alatreon so I think the guild keeps them under wraps to avoid mass panic and anarchy.
With that in mind, I like to think these extremely superstitious individuals have alot of tall tales about the "Ancient Civilization". I mean, we got ruins and remnants of tech, some texts too but no one really knows much about them. Were they some evil group that brought about their own downfall? Did they treat the world with such cruelty that numerous species were all left with the choice to either fight or die? Did this lead to the perception of a unified force among the dragons?
Who bloody knows! It makes fir a damn good fairy tale though.
Also side note and spoilers for rise:
Gonna be honost, I dislike the EDW and dragon war thing. It just seems really dumb to me.
That said, MHRise's rampage has introduced Resonance which is this idea that certain monsters can "resonate" their thoughts and emotions onto other animals. Not all animals are susceptible, but enough are that Ibushi is able to imprint its desire to find Narwa onto numerous other monsters, causing the Rampage as Kamura is unfortunately in the way.
We are also shown that Ibushi and Narwa are extremely intelligent monsters, even for elder dragons.
With all this in mind, the idea of a unified front of monsters, led by a few elder dragon's capable of Resonance could easily explain the Great Dragon War...
Like I said I do NOT like the idea of the dragon war and the EDW and im already iffy on this whole resonance thing. I personally do NOT want the EDW in a game of to even be confirmed as it is 1. Super fucking dark (I like dark shit but not in MH) And 2. It would take the series in a direction I dislike.
For me, MH has always been about this beautiful, fascinatibg world where powerful dragons, leviathens, and dinosaurs are not just real, they're normal. Its a fantastic world that feels so alive and vibrant. Its also a world where humanity isn't fighting to survive in the face of these monsters, humanity is absolutely thriving with this incredible "Culture of Danger" as that one bloke on youtube put it.
The EDW seems like something out of not just a horror movie, but a post apocalyptic fight for survival. It feels like something we would fight in a game where humanity needs to face the sins of the past and rectify the past wrongs, and for me thats just nlt what Monster Hunter is.
Monster Hunter is always looking ahead to the future, to exploring more of this vibrant world and seeing more of the fascinating life within. The Equal Dragon Weapon just doesn't fit into that.
Long ass post over. If you actually read this, congratulations.
The black dragons were kept a secret by a religous cult. The Third Fleet Master tells our player of how she was silenced.
The equal dragon weapon would be an amazing boss xD
What would be its armor tho... 🤔
Every monster
bone,pelt,gem,penis,ballsack,horn,tail,
Wing, and scale
My personal theory: the equal dragon weapon developed into the fatalis
It seems implied that Fatalis is at least partially responsible for the destruction of the ancient civilization. Having been creating from all the strongest aspects of alot of dragons but through suffering and death would give the fatalis cause to hate humanity
This Equal Dragon look something that would appear in Soul Sacrifice
From what we know and can observe in the games. The ancient civilization was massive and stretched all over. We also know that some kind of war took place in that ancient past. And it was massive as pretty much all the castles and fortresses are in complete disrepair and still heavily damaged if humanity isn't currently occupying them. I can't see Fatalis being the only one that destroyed that civilization but I'm sure his destruction of Schrade was the end point. It was the capital from what I understand. And that probably marked the end of the war and the beginning of humanity's reset.
Equal Dragon Weapon reminds me of the weaponized and mechanized dragons in Monster Hunter Stories
Honestly, in actuality, the whole ancient civilization and the great dragon war is pretty much fanfic. All concepts that are cool, but little to no credence directly exists in any of the mainline games. I personally like this take, even though it is mostly perpetrated (at least from what I know) of some of the stuff from the artbook and some in-game details. It may be purely speculation, but I think it's interesting lore that doesn't entirely break the game in half.
I love it my dude!
Thanks for watching!!
Everytime i hear about it all i think is i wanna hunt it but i feel like i havent earned that right since i only started playing since world
The ancient dragon weapon makes me think about Nausicaä's god warriors
I hate to nitpick, but it's pronounced "Shraid." The c in Schrade is silent.
You're correct. I realised this when they pronounced it in World
Imagine having THIS as a flagship Monster. HOLY CRAP...
Fatalis would fight that.
people throw the EDW and the "ancient civilization" and the Great dragon war around as if they have ever been stated to be canon. Thanks to a few certain big youtubers, theres a lot of misinformed people out there spreading misconceptions even further. Which led to the plot of the monster hunter movie
considering paul w.s anderson treats games the same way America treats the geneva convention, he likely came up with it on his own in a weird form of convergent evolution
Well an ancient civilization is 100% canon, unless you think elder dragons built all the towers and ruins instead.
@@slenderhatesmillennials195 there's not *AN* ancient civilization. There's ancient civilizationS. Plural. The ruins in MHTri are not the same as the ones in MH4 or schrade
@@eiriksundby the fact that there werw differents ancient civilizations isn't canon, it isn't explained in the games. I actually think it was just one cause the technology is always the same, like the dragonators
If i seem to be disrespectful with you i'm sorry, i'm not english and i can't speak it very well
My theory:
The hunters evolved to a point where they hunted the monsters so intensely that they went on risk of extinction, this caused a war for the remaining dragons who they needed to craft armor, weapons, etc(that’s why it’s called the great dragon war).
So a war unfurls, and one of the ancient civilizations decided to create the EDW to win the war,however the plan goes wrong. I believe this happened because they used fatalis parts on it, and since we know that fatalis never dies, it’s spirit lives on forever and can even possess hunters and considering that we are dealing with a dragon like this, they probably used fatalis parts to build it, however they ended up taking control over the abomination.Since fatalis has a brutal hate towards humanity the EDW hunts down humanity to the edge of extinction. The destruction is so severe that all ancient civilizations are forced to abandon their cities and live in the wild, because if they stayed on them, they would be easily localized and destroyed by the EDW.This forced the ancient civilization to live in the wild, with no place to develop and they lived in the wild for so long that they forget about their creations, advancements and technology, which forces them to start all over as our generation of hunters.
The EDW either dies, because his biocomponents aged too much, or he couldn’t sustain them or white fatalis decided he was causing too much destruction and just killed him(and yes, I believe that white fatalis can EASILY kill the EDW, considering only normal fatalis was able to fully destroy one of the multiple ancient civilizations)
That begs the question:
What are the rusted weapons referring to? And the Weird Artisan Armor set?
It's a small detail, but Is it more of a reference to this original Concept?
The only problem is that the devs never say for sure, but am ancient civilization DID fight the elder dragons, and the song of black Dragon apparently tells how it ended. The guild was formed afterwards so we only have written history after that point
Well if it’s on the internet it must be true XD
Welp melting armor was a real thing in iceborn fatails!
I want the remains of the edw in rise in a dlc maybe damn equal would be perfect for a rampage
Remember Yggdrasil drake from ragnarok odyssey ace this is him now felt old yet?
Heyyy now that I’m running a dnd campaign set in this universe I can make it canon!
I mean its not really a theory if we see fatalis doing it right.
His body heats up and he crushes hunters into the soft metals on his chest and stomach roasting them to death in their armor.
Also this is a dragon so vile and twisted with its unnatural hate for humanity it turns the hunters who wear it Into the next fatalis. I wouldnt be surprised if the dragon weapon was real because something had to twist the being that is fatalis which is literally passed down from wearer to wearer with the next wearer basically hunting down the former fatalis not realizing he is going to become him once the set of armor is complete and they dont stop wearing it. Which is a very easy bait because he normally has really really good skills.
2:37 those are ruins? Looks like low texture green island.
*me patiently waiting for my players to run out of time and awaken the EDW in tomb of annihilation *
7:23 You fuckin sure?
*cries in fatalis pin*
I don't care if it's non canon, for me it is. And that's what matters lol, the lore and mystery surrounding it is too magical to be forgotten.
The equal dragon weapon is the first and only example of these techno-biological creations.
*Sad Duremudira noises*
Imma keep it a buck, it would be badass if this was a fight and like if during the fight it does a turf war and kills a monster to gain power. I can only hope...
How can we explain weaponary as charge blade, switch axe and gunlance then?
Not sure what you mean by this
@@SuperRADLemon How do they exist in a world so primitive? such complexed weapons must have come from somewhere.
@@FailToilet the ancient civilization still exists I believe, just not EDW or some of the ancient civ concepts
Now we know that Fatalis actaully melts the hunters on purpose
Equal dragon weapon is gogazmios but faliure
I think it’d be a fun game if they were to make a game Where you hunt alongside the guild specific monsters and at the end you walk in on a nearly complete equal dragon thing and do the morally correct thing and take it down as well as guild and then it like reforms and stuff
I am still dreaming of a more Story based "Monster Hunter " Game, which is also rather dark and griddy.
Or a manga of some sort
I want a game about the dragon war
Here's a fanmade theme for the Equal Dragon Weapon czcams.com/video/ZV5fV0IkteI/video.html
what about Gogmazios tho...?
The problem Is a lack of confirmation, an ancient war DID happen, and ancient Wyverians WERE involved somehow, but aside from Gog acting and looking like a biological weapon we won't know if he's really one and the same. The leadup with him finding am archaic dragonator and "refuelling" from the guilds gunpowder fits a mechanical creature more than a biological one, and he can control the dragonator once it's on his back so he seems to have once had integrated weaponry, possibly that very dragonator he found.
Anything in the art books is soft canon, and while some of it has been contradicted since publishing a lot still fits. Relic weapons and that underwater Ceadus arena didn't come from nowhere.
Rather than trying to piece together lore about MH, I think it's more interesting to learn about the monsters as animals.
The great dragon war could be a interesting plot for a monster hunter stories game