Aleatoric Music: From Lutosławski to Video Games
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- čas přidán 23. 12. 2018
- In this video, I discuss aleatoric music, specifically the combination of looping and chance. To begin, I look at how the technique has evolved - including developments in modern composition as well as the use looping software and hardware. Later it then goes on to look at the use of aleatoric technique in video games too. To lllustrate this, I look at games such as Lumines (most consoles), Flower and Flow (Playstation 3).
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Thanks to Jonathan Lee (Pentameron) for providing much better subtitles than mine. Really appreciate the work and I've learned a lot about how to do it properly.
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I have a fancy new aleatoric method where I just suck at playing and every time the music is different.
go back in time to the 90s, you'll be praised as a genius
Duh, nothing new! The Stones did that in the 60s already!
Yeah, quantizing shift registers like the Turing Machine from Music Thing Modular are quite capable of making aleatoric melodies without looping.
I do that too!!!
I use Ableton and no live input because I'm way to good at exactly that.
Random idea for an April fools video: Review Photoshop as if it were a music notation software
I've twice now failed to do an April Fools video. This is a pretty good, albeit abstract idea.
I love this idea. I need it done. If you won't deliver. I will cry.
@@davmar9923 Is that an early April fools joke, or does that exist? I know composers who literally do that, so it's not crazy.
@@Tantacrul No joke. A quick Google search "image to sound synthesis" turns up several, including one called PixelSynth, which may be the one I recall.
@@davmar9923 You can do that in Harmor ;)
Musicians: train for 20 years to play correctly and in sync
Composers: forget all that
you gotta know the rules before you can break them properly
this video is so thorough and amazingly well done, thanks for including me - truly an honor!
@@itsfos518 thank you!
Honestly, the honor was all mine!
instructions unclear at the end, i only liked and shared the video.
ffs get back here at once and leave a comment
Roll a d10 three times to determine what movements you play. Roll a d6 for what melody you play. Reroll the d6 until you use all melodies.
you have to roll a d20 to see if you hit first, otherwise the above instruction is void
@@waytoohypernova Good idea. If you roll under a 5 on a d20 then you can tacet for that movement.
@@instinctbrosgaming9699
>Barge into a tavern
>Nail a Nat 20 on the first movement
>Start rolling low on all other movements
>Get chased out of the town and banned for life
>DM throws his notes over his shoulders in frustration
>Another campaign ruined and a job well done indeed.
>The DM doesn't say a word and just leaves
8:30 This much reminded me of how the field music is handled in _Breath of the Wild._ There are (I believe) 25 piano fragments that play in random order, with random intervals between them. And occasionally, a reversed chord appears.
And yet, after all that, you go back to Sibelius for the notation demos in the video, like the Ike Turner of notation software.
Haha. Don't worry. I'll try something else soon. Something REALLY bad :p
@@Tantacrul Finale?
hahahahahahahahahahahaha
came for the vid, stayed for the comments...fantastic
@@Tantacrul DAW Piano roll is far more intuitive. The stave will be obsolete before the DAW piano roll.
uelude The grid has some intrinsic problems which I don't think a lot of people have accounted for, including biases held over from classical notation but amplified. I say this as someone who works primarily in MIDI, by the by.
A very good example of aleatoric music in video games is, well, all of Spore's UI. Practically every single button you press or hover over produces a tone that seamlessly blends into the background music in a very subtle way (the music in Spore is generally very subtle to begin with, mostly being there to provide ambient noise so your ears don't feel too lonely). There's even a way to create custom themes for each and every one of your cities, with tons of choices for sound and timing, each of which again seamlessly blending in with all those button presses and the background music.
As strange as it seems, Spore is a game with immense depth and subtlety. The amount of interesting tidbits that you glance over the first seventeen times you play through the various stages of the game is honestly pretty staggering. It's received a lot of criticism, and there's certainly a lot to be criticized about it; but on the whole it's a brilliant game that surprises me every time I play it, even 11.5 years after launch.
I dunno... subtlety I can see, but depth? I love Spore, I have a lot of fond memories of it, but... it feels a bit like a skeleton of a game, even if it does have artistry like this within it. There just isn't much to do. I still do love the music, though, for the reasons you said.
@@arigadatred5395 spore is the skeleton of a great game and no one knows how to make it that game
Spore's sound design is pretty nice. And the galaxy menu music is majestic
That little sting at the end, "if you like my diatribe, subscribe" teases a follow up to The Cultural Coupon in my mind and fills me with a wistful yearning for exactly that. I still listen to that record almost a life later and it remains brilliant. Love the channel, Martin, and I still hope for new playful music in that vein some day.
Aww. Thanks a lot! I'm writing something at the moment. Was thinking of putting some proper work into it next year.
I really like the windwakers combat music where when doing critical hits it plays small bits of music that fit the main theme
😱 He actually wrote "Lutosławski" with a "Ł"!!!
and pronounced it like he didnt
IIRC, isn’t the “ł” supposed to be pronounced like a “W” and the “w” like a “V” (as in Lech “va-WESS-ah” (Wałęsa))?
Padraic Fanning Yup.
I see this as and an absolute win
Łoł!
Follow this thread for the joke/pun
07:32 Oh god I love the "Therenody" video. Such an eye opener.
The hypnotic lure at the end is so cheeky and hilarious. Thanks for introducing the Threnody. I didn't know about Penderecki before, now I can finally make sense how the OST of There Will Be Blood sound so unique. Thanks for keep putting out such high quality content!
I always loved this dynamic effect in games and i'm glad you brought up Flower as its one of my favorite examples of that. If you have the chance, definitely check out the new game Tetris Effect as it also uses this as basically its core mechanic and it's just an absolute joy to play because of it.
Yeah, I remember being showed flower a few years back and being blown away.
That piece with the cassette tapes reminded me very strongly of Silent Hill 2, specifically the 'song' that plays in the ruined version of the hotel. It's got the same kind of 'constant hum over noise' texture to it.
Sibelius crashed.
The black beams stretched too high.
Lol.
I wanted to like your comment,but Sibelius crashed.
I wanted to like this comment but instead I accidentally hit the 'Quit Sibelius' button
@@drumcorcaigh5770 I clicked on your comment and my phone screen is filled with gore.
Oh man so many references...
I loved everything about this video, from the outstanding explanations, examples, and demonstrations, to the self-effacing humor sprinkled throughout and slathered on at the end.
Your some kinda wizard man! I've been a hard rock, metal, blues, country guitarist for 3O years and you've hooked me to classical music so hard! It's stuff I know sometimes intuitively but now I understand it!! Shhwing!! Thanks!
Wow, that brightens up my day! (I started with hard rock / metal)
ok, that take on subscribing and clicking the notification button, then followed up by that vocoded outro got me lol'ing. great video so here's a genuine 1st video watched subber!
I just want to leave a comment appreciating the thumbnail here. Somehow the colour, symbol, and silhouette of tree branches in the symbol all work incredibly well to convey the “sense” of aleatoric music. It’s one of my favourite thumbnails I’ve seen in a while!
Thanks for that!
This was extremely interesting- I’ve seen this phenomenon in games and have always been a little mesmerised by the flow of the inputs/actions to the visuals and audio.
It’s a dreamy/flowy type effect thing
so excited about this channel. Thanks!
I met Gregor Forbes at a Julia Holter gig a couple of years ago. Had a good chat with him and thought he had some pretty interesting takes on music. Honestly one of the biggest shocks I've had seeing him discussed here,
We spent many an afternoon arguing about music :)
I'm really happy I found your videos. They are extremely informative.
I had friends who did that tape looping thing using old reel-to-reel tape machines, which were pretty easy to find in the early 90s. The cool thing about those was that some had separate record and play heads, so you could do some pretty cool effects by playing with that gap. So cool to see someone doing a similar thing with current thrift store goodies..!
Stunning video with top-notch editing and content! Instant subscription.
This discussion was amazing! Please, make more videos like it.
Thank you for this summary. Very detailed yet brief, excellent to light that creative spark to pursue the technique further! I'll certainly give it a look when I can. Keep it up.
Glad you liked it.
I'm kind of surprised that Andrew Huang, and the world of modular synths, didn't come up in this discussion. He makes fantastic music, that almost always has some element of randomness. Such an amazing musician.
I've been kinda binge watching you're videos for a few hours now... Need to go sleep 😀
Love your sarcasm, editing and everything!
Would love to see you do videos about so much stuff... mostly Snarky Puppy, though. Make a "Snarky Puppy deep dive" video, please 😂
Or like about anything else, no pressure... lookin forward to see more stuff from you! 😎👍🏻
It's interesting that those composers achieved randomness by allowing different musicians more freedom in interpretation. I'd guess a lot of programmers would throw their hands in the air right now and say something along the lines of "but letting people decide is not _randomness_!!11!1". But I think the end result speaks for itself - it does sound random, and it is quite difficult, or even impossible, to predict the "state of the system" at any given moment.
But #2: I also think it's a valid point in a way - we as people don't enjoy "true" randomness at all. We like controlled randomness, so to speak. The same concept is widely known among game designers: if you code a truly random digital die, no one will ever believe it's random. For optimal feel, it needs a few tweaks, like not being able to land on the same number many times in a row. When designing random encounters, you want to make sure the same type and the same number of enemies almost never show up twice, especially in a row, so you give a higher "weight" (probability of showing up) to those monsters and situations the player hasn't seen before. Some even outright ban repeating encounters in a row - a matter of taste, really.
A great video, as usual. Thank you very much for these - you're definitely one of my favourite channels right now. Can't wait for a new upload!
Maybe some more composition tips, this time for beginners? Like people who play an instrument, but only ever compose completely intuitively - you doodle for a while, stumble upon a good line, it becomes the first riff, then you doodle again until you find something for the second riff, etc. Gotta hit that no-formal-training-metal-guitarist crowd, amirite?
Something to illustrate this is another TED talk, the one about truly random music.
I would say the 'chance' element is really to be found where you're using multiple players. Yes, each of them are making individual decisions but the combination of interweaving decisions amounts to something pretty unpredictable.
Programmer who does computer-randomized music here!
Technically, what we do as programmers usually isn't random either. Mostly, we just use pseudorandom number lookup tables.
Really, since humans aren't particularly precise, they're a lot MORE random than computers can practically be. Sure, they tend to pick predictable patterns, but they play them very badly! :D
@@RegdarAndTheFightersTrue enough (amateur game developer if you're wondering) Pseudorandom numbers are very common in programming, but that's partly because the vast majority of computers do not have a hardware random number generator capable of generating ACTUAL randomness.
Thus, pseudorandom is as close as we've got.
But when you do game development you quickly realise a well made pseudorandom algorithm gives a near flawless impression of randomness but has some very powerful upsides.
In particular, if you have a pseudorandom algorithm where you can control the seed or starting parameters, you have a deterministic system that LOOKS random.
This makes things repeatable that would otherwise break with true randomness.
Such as say, a pre-recorded replay mode in a game - short of recording a video of it, this is only possible if all the game logic can be set up in a known state and is otherwise fully deterministic from that point onwards. (impossible if true randomness is anywhere in the code.)
Procedurally generated content also largely benefits from this, since you can say, save a huge 'random' environment using pretty much just the parameters and seed that this environment was 'randomly' generated with.
If it were actually random, you'd never be able to reconstruct the same environment twice, meaning you couldn't save the game state, or do a number of other things.
Pseudorandom is truly a situation where the many of the conceptual flaws in something turn out to be huge strengths in practice....
@@KuraIthys 'strue. I do really like games that allow you to control the seed like that (Dwarf Fortress in particular!)
Cryptography is the only field where true randomness is really important
(Heck, I use known seeds to get reproducible results in my music too!)
I have an interesting method. It isn’t strictly musical. I choreograph tap dance pieces in my free time. And I’m currently working on an a capella piece that gives the dancers five or so independent rhythms each and a dynamic; they get to choose what steps to do to change the color of the sound, and it’s at there own pace with their own decisions about repetition, order, etc.
These methods of repeating phrases of various lengths is also very common in Minimalism, for instanve Terry Riley's in C, also very interesting
I gave old wizard Terry a plug around the 9:14 mark
I'm a simple man. I see lutosławski, I leave a like.
Salt of the Earth. Some of us are born that way.
This video is a huge relief. I had a feeling there was a name for this and an underlying theory but previously when I tried to learn about this topic, I found it impenetrable and the orchestral compositions (specifically "In C", funnily enough) to be totally impossible to understand what I was listening to.
You presented an enourmous amount of content here, made salient for musical plebes like me; all without asking for a semester of time or $300. Deeply appreciated!
Such quality content is a gift from the heavens. Never stop.
so nicely explained. I really like that you showed the same techniques constantly switching between genres. I think that that eclectic way of thinking is what is creating awesome contemporary music nowadays
(also, democratizating the listening!!! lol)
You sir, are AWESOME!
Thanks so much for this video!
That Sub-scribe / Ring-the-bell thing at the end, with the punchline and zooming in. That is probably the best and most fitting request for subscription I've ever heard. Absolutely awesome.
Amulets! I love his work
Great video & Merry Christmas 🎄 Tantacrul
Thanks very much. You too.
Your channel is fantastic. Thanks for the great content.
Very nice explanation! Thanks!
All of youre thumbnails look like Adobe products
That sounds good but is probably bad. At least you don't need to pay a yearly subscription for me.
Tantacrul imagine paying for Adobe products
@@Tantacrul at least your videos don't cost $20 a month like dreamweaver :p
Great stuff! Interested viewers might also want to check out "Frippertronics", a technique created by Robert Fripp in the 70ies, using very long delay times (up to 30 seconds) and sustained overdriven guitar tones (can be done with any instrument though).
Klaus Wutscher he'd have to be careful about the copy right though lol
Wow, really learnt something that I could really use. This is a quality channel! I'm definitely gonna try this out.
Modular synthesis can be all about this!
Let's take two popular modules: the Malekko Varigate 4+ and the Doepfer A-151 Seq. Switch.
The Varigate lets you create four 8 step voltage patterns (corresponding to pitch, rhythms, whatever you want) where you set a chance percentage for each particular step to trigger. The Sequential Switch selects between 2-4 voltage sources, with a trigger sent to its input advancing what source is selected.
Using just these two modules, you could set up 3 different note patterns on the varigate and use the fourth channel to determine when the Seq. Switch will switch between each of these patterns. By playing around with this 4th channel, you can switch between your three patterns at differing times- and with each pattern allowing you to set a chance % for each note, you can very quickly generate entirely new, ever-changing patterns from your deliberately crafted ones!
Merry Christmas, nice video :)
Same to you!
I think I want to subscribe to your channel now.
Really NICE content!
I really enjoyed your video but ultimately was very impressed by your musical 'subscribe' haunt. I've subscribed so I can witness more of your creativity. Thanks so much for this investigation of indeterminacy, helped me see it multiple new ways!
this is by far the best music related youtube channel. you even get more in depth with things than adam neely, which i never really expected a youtube musician to do. however the biggest thing i like about these videos is you're discussion of aesthetics, and what not to do.
this is just really great shit, keep making stuff.
Thanks very much. Will do :)
I enjoyed the video on how to cover hallelujah badly the best. would absolutely LOVE to see more stuff like that where you get into detail about the aesthetic aspect of music.
Always coming back to this channel...
Just brilliant! So helpful too - thank you!
Your little bit at the end made me subscribe, two videos into your channel. I also rang the bell.
What a nice environment for a composer, this channel..brilliant!
I love your channel you deserve millions of views
Great video ! Would love to see more of this kind of methodic evaluation of methods and techniques :)
Sure thing. I've a lot more in this vein to come.
love Flower and the way the music fits the gameplay.
your videos inspire me to experiment with my own music. nice job.
Fantastic video! I really dig the production! Thanks so much for turning me onto Amulet's channel. I'll definitely be taking a look into their output!
It's also interesting how in video games, the timbre can be put up to chance. The most common one being on land vs. underwater mixing/instrumentation. I also really enjoyed Chibi-Robo on the Gamecube and how it applies musical sounds to actions. Tones would play when you ran about, other times you would hear music as a result of scrubbing a spot of dirt with a toothbrush, etc. I always found it extremely charming.
Very enlightening! Thank you Sir!
says: video game music
Immediately shows flower and flow
Very interesting and inspirational. Subscribed...
I love collaborating with the players...
I feel hypnotized to subscribe.
I literally have no knowledge about music, and didn't understood jack... But I still love it. Kudos to you bro
My new favourite channel 👍
It's hard to believe you only have 50K subscribers? Your videos are great!
Thanks! I had 7K only two months ago, so I'm feeling pretty good about these numbers right now :)
Great video, thanks man!!!
I like your video. I like how the music is created. Very nice.
Great video and inspiring explanation! I just got an Elektron Digitakt sampler, which has lots of looping and chance elements to play with (different loop lengths, conditional triggers, microtiming)- way more excited to incorporate these into my practicing now
Awesome. Glad you liked it.
I've got a friend of mine who can conduct in 4/4 and 3/4 at the same time with his hands. Its really cool to look at.
I can imagine. :)
Subscribed before the outro then saw the outro and I was like woah
+1 for Reason. It is my favorite music tool, mainly because of the UI.
I never knew about this type of music but just started doing it naturally when I began working with the Deluge because it had functions for it built in. Very cool when a style is built into the design of a tool.
One of my favorite music artists who uses this technique, or at least I'm pretty sure he uses it, is Petar Dundov. I love the way his minimalist techno music transitions from melody to melody with so many subtle layers that I don't even realize there was a transition until long after it happens.
Brilliant tutorial and demos !
11:45 welcome to youtube hell
One day all videos will just be that.
Nice plot twist at the end end end end.
Merry Christmas Chief always a blast
See you shortly! Probably end of Jan!
This earned a subscribe. Thanks
I have no idea of music, but I love your videos. They give me a short, deeper than usual (for me), look into something I tend to enjoy on a surface level only and let me appreciate the medium that much more. I had no idea what aleatoric music meant before watching this, but I do recognise it from some games I've played! Thank you!
I just watched 6 of your videos and I'm fucking wheezing holy shit I love you
Hilarious, educational, inspiring... I love your content
This 3 flutes and piano thing is really beautiful
It's an amazing piece.
and here I thought there would be a mention of DooM 2016's aleatoric soundtrack - there are multiple sections to the song, and they have different categories that activate depending on the player's actions. Then inside that category, there are multiple clips that play at random.
also very surprised that that wasn't mentioned. It seemed his video games examples came from a very specific time and place
I really like Hohvaness, but I never knew he helped pioneer aleatoric techniques. Thanks for a very informative video.
This is so cool
Oh man, I've just gone through like half the videos on this page and they are great. Have my dang 3 bucks per creation.
Wow I learned a lot from this!
I think you did Terry Riley a disservice by not mentioning things like "Poppy Nogood and the Phantom Band" and "Dorian Reeds", but MAN do I love phase/tape loop music so much, there's just something about letting "Piano Phase" or "Variations For Winds, Strings, and Keyboards" wash over you while it's raining outside and you're relaxing with a cup of tea.
Nice to hear the shout-out to Hovhannes for his work. I think he is often overlooked despite how well he managed to combine very forward-thinking techniques like the “senza misura” portions in his Magnificat with very conservative structures. I feel he breathed new life into forms. And, although not aleatoric, the textures and rhythmic constructs in his piano concerto Lousadzac certainly fit what you were discussing in terms of looping.
This kind of thing happens during the part of Alan Bell's "From Chaos to the Birth of a Dancing Star." I got the honor of working with him from my time in the Alberta Wind Symphony. What our conductor, Dr. Hopkins said was to "Play your own thing on the number". It ended up sounding very interesting and I loved how it developed. Meeting the composer also brought some insight into it.
Happy Holidays
hehe funny seeing you here
Right back at you! 💪
2 things:
1) Absolutely fascinating and thorough video as always :)
2) I want to play Rez now and transcend into a psychedelic aleatoric trance haha... god does that game bring back memories though
Maybe you have heard of Soundpainting ? It is a sign language used for real-time composition with an orchestra (and optionally dancers, actors, and other disciplines). It is a way to have musicians perform something more or less random, and the 'soundpainter' can pick from what the musicians propose and continue the piece with that material. The level of randomness can be adjusted with different gestures and sign combinations.
No. I've not heard of it. Thanks!
Really good vid. I have been using these techniques for years, inspired by Cage and more modern sounds like :Zoviet*France: but never investigated the background theory. Thanks.
Ape Out is a fascinating game game you could look at for a sequel video.
It is on a whole different level I think, than most other games that play with sound.
It was only recently that I found out that Beardyman was Jay Foreman's brother, and now it's very hard to not notice it.