Why the Legion is Doomed to Fail - The Story of Fallout: New Vegas
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The Legion modelled them selves on the Roman Legions but yet they Failed to do what the romans did best, Adapt.
Nathan Blencowe yep The legion is nothing like the Roman legion they reckless never try to adapt to what surrounds them. They treat their people mostly women like nothing. I accepted the Ncr and house because they try to save as much as they can. Legion use tactics just like what the soviet did use mass number but they cant produce as much soldiers to use that tactic and the Legion spread too thin that they can't sum up enough troop to win one battle and not get invade by another side.
@@phuct4980 That comparison to the soviets is too real. Especially when house killed anyone that saw a securitron just like the soviets gulag'ed people that saw the "Decadent west.".
EDIT: Not house. Caesar.
Prettyvfc ironic. Cause if you look at the pieces of gear a legionairy uses most of it is tqken from people they had conquered. The helmet is iberian (spain). The gladius greek. Etc.
My theory is that Caesar was trying to fix the mistakes that caused the roman empire's fall
@@soniablanche5672 most of the reasons rome fell was rising power of outside forces. The sassanid empire. The gauls. The huns. Etc. And over reliance on slaves. Which ceaser definitely wasnt helping with.
Ulysses: "You're a coward for using ranged weapons".
Also Ulysses: "I'm gonna use these *intercontinental* ballistic missiles from the safety of my bunker".
AlHoresmi You can actually call him out for it in dialogue when you confront him
*intercontinental* was a good touch
Actually in fallout 3 we almost send a ICBM bomb to China we couldn't because of the navigation system wasn't made and the silo where the bomb was, it was under a pretty big pile of rumble at Fort Constantine.
I think he means that on one on one fights, using long range and stealth is cowardly, but still... kinda contradictory since he is nuking the Mojave form out of nowhere ( but i got to agree with him that the Bear and the Bull sucks, [actualy, most of the factions in New Vegas sucks: Vegas has a bunch of egocentric assholes with the Chairman, bunch of psycopaths with the Gamorra, more stylish psycopaths with the White Glove, and Mr House wants that to be his personal paradise. the Great Khans are drug dealers, the Powder Gangers are idiots with dynamite, the Boomers are idiots with better dynamite who live in a bubble and the Brotherhood are too thick headed to be able to do any good... i think that the only "ok" factions are The Kings and the Followers of the Apocalipse, but they are too small to do any difference in the grand scheme of things])
The Legion is full of hypocrisy.
Courier Six: "Hey Caesar, what happened to Graha-"
*[You have become Vilified by Caesar's Legion!]*
you said the G word
He can't do that! Shoot him or something!
@@Archemetics My lord, is that legal?
crusader He’ll make it legal.
Legionary Assassins: "STOP! YOU ARE VIOLATING THE LAW!"
Arcade: "I bet he thinks the Colorado is his Rubicon"
Caesar: "The Colorado will be by Rubicon"
Well done writers.
Something is bad when someone easily predicts what you’ll say
@@Predator20357 What's bad is the writing in that specific dialogue.
Setup and payoff is more than one of your characters predicting word-for-word what you have another of your characters say.
@@RandomizedCTRL At least it’s not where after Arcade says that, Caesar immediately says after Arcade like some comedy.
@@RandomizedCTRL how is that bad? It’s not like they’re said in the same conversation, they can be heard at anytime during a play through, you could hear them hours apart. Just because arcade can predict the type of person Caesar is, as others also do in the game, doesn’t make it bad writing. If an NCR trooper says that the legion will attack the dam, and then the legion attacks the dam, is that also bad writing? No😂
Avg new vegas dialouge
I love all the Fallout games, but New Vegas did something right when we still have people arguing about it's factions 8 years after it's release.
Ncr is best
great story writing from old school developers..this is what is epic in this game!
The legion is completely doomed and Oxhorn explains it extremely well keep up the good work and I love you videos!
Prodigy Gamer there all flawed that's the whole point of fallout new Vegas is there's no good ending you just have to choose the best of the worst
Really hate I never played it fallout 4 was my first fallout game and looks like I missed out. Almost makes me want to buy a PC.
This is why Easy Pete should rule the wasteland
Biggest Beepis why can't errybody jus git alawn sigh lemme grab my boom sticks
Biggest Beepis I killed doc Mitchell because he's looking through my stuff.
He can't he has no limbs or head in my game.
Biggest Beepis Easy Pete
Regular Pete
Hard Pete
Really hard Pete
Stop trying Pete
No please stop Pete
No this is too difficult don’t select this.
Someone needs to make a mod to get Easy Pete on your side when playing with Yes Man.
"Why the Legion is Doomed to Fail "
Because I mowed them down from 500 metres with my Gobi rifle and shot a mini nuke in caesar's face, duh.
and turned on god mode
@@marveyzing1495 never used it.
However sometimes player.modav health 50000 comes in handy.
Ha! You need GUNS to take those pansies out?!
*pats and kisses Knock-Knock’s beautiful, polished axe head*
@@mylifeisacomplexpastiche7901 I prefer the Super Sledge. It's satisfying smashing them to bits. It's also satisfying to shoot them with guns too.
@@TheBonesMalone It’s more satisfying chopping them up because you can see the light leave their eyes.
Noone:
The Courier: "Joshua Gra.."
Caesar: "PRAETORIANS, TO ME!"
Courier: "Graha-"
Legion Assassins: *_FURIOUS BREATHING_*
Imagine being called "Graham" and work for the Legion...
"Mighty Caesar, I have brought the ingredients needed to make s'mores for tonight's Campfire Jamboree. See, here are the marshmallows, Hershey's Chocolate, and the graham-"
"PRAETORIANS, TO ME!"
@@Satellite_Of_Love good one
@@Satellite_Of_Love The slaves have been spreading stories about the burned s'mores again
What stands out to me is that Caesar describes lanius as being loyal to him but having no love for the legion, if you talk him down though he seems to put the survival of the legion above is devotion to caesar.
Huh, yeah good point
I take that as simply further evidence of Caesar's ego getting in the way of his reasoning abilities. I feel it is clear that Lanius's reputation is a legend loosely based on the man; "Lanius" is more of a concept than a person. Underneath the brutal and terrifying exterior is a very calculating and intelligent person.
Yeah he know Joshua was not free from his evil
It probably Caesar trying to make a myth out of Lanius.
@@mrwaffly2202 Yeah notably there’s a lot of contradictions in the information we here from Lanius, he was supposedly made a legionnaire at the age of 12... and he was also his tribe’s greatest warrior who slaughtered all his tribe members because they wanted to surrender... which mean this Tribes’ greatest warrior was a preteen... and apparently Lanius’ face was disfigured during said massacre, but his face looks fine when you remove his helmet.
Curious how Caesar goes on and on and on about how he won’t use more effective weaponry in favor of melee combat, yet let’s not forget he tried to purchase large numbers of weapons from the Van Graffs.
Kate Duff-Us when?
Rogue Wolf Studios If you begin working for the Van Graffs, it will be the last quest in that line, after Birds of a Feather.
Maybe he was purchasing pulse weapons to counter the securitons. and flamers are classified as energy weapons, i imagine casear wouldn't be above issuing those types to his most proven warriors
I can see that definitely being possible, it is shame we can't see what is in the crates. What confuses me even more is when you ask him why his Legionaires can't handle killing Mr. House, he says he would have to kill them if they saw House's technology, saying "if mankind's going to survive this moment in history, it needs warriors, not gadgets" which threw me off even more!
So does that mean, in a House or Yes Man path, Caesar will have to kill any of his Legionaires that witness the securitrons on the Dam and make it out alive? :P
41:28 It's not even that. Those weren't Hegelian, Caesar got it wrong. It's a common misconception, but Hegel came up with and used Abstract-Negative-Concrete. Hegel attributed Thesis-Antithesis-Synthesis to Kant, and that particular model was expanded upon by Fichte. Hegel didn't use it. That said, this _is_ interesting to observe, as it implies that Caesar doesn't even know as much as he thinks he does.
I think its pretty clear that Caesar doesn't know as much as he thinks he does and is misrepresenting Rome and the legions. No doubt part intentionally because its a convenient narrative but largely through ignorance and arrogance.
Thats why its so hilarious when you read edgy teenagers think Caesar and the Legion are awesome. Like Caesar they're ignorant about history. Difference Casear is in a nuclear wasteland where the edgy teens could read about the real Julius Caesar or Caesar Agustus very easily.
Ironically, Romans were superior in their time because of their strong supply lines and focus on lasting military presence in conquered territories
@Firemonster221 Not really. Real Romans would have greatly approved of trains and modern trucks because above all, they liked efficiency. They were also the most technologically advanced society in their time and place, even if their technological progress was largely stagnant.
@Firemonster221 It does. He was talking about the supply lines. And Legion sent a lot of its troops to MAYBE conquer the dam.
Also, still, Caesar's Legion barely even resembles Rome so what are we talking about? Actual Romans, if given the full context, would find the means to time travel and kill Eddy Sallow himself because he's a living insult to their legacy.
@Firemonster221 Okay, fair.
About the supply lines - Legion mostly transports things with the use of their own feet and maybe an occasional brahmin. To support the entire empire, i.e. both Legion lands and New California, they would need to advance technologically. They also rely too much on what they can pillage from the places they can visit, and as the courier with high barter skill can point out, it's not viable when they invade towns that aren't self-sufficient.
And... fair. But still, they don't resemble actual Rome in ANY aspect. This is why I don't see how it was a "template" for them. They have a fetish for the color red (and actual Rome wasn't NEARLY as red.) and use Latin, and that's about it. They don't have the Romans' ingenuity and intelligence, as well as ACTUAL pragmatism. Do you know hy Roman Empire was so successful? Largely because they left the lands they conquered to their own devices, aside from the tribute they had to pay. It's not what Legion does. And Rome also was the most advanced civilization in the region.
Which is why I don't see how in hell is Rome the template. Caesar shits on literally on every single aspect that made the ACTUAL Rome so succesful .Caesar's Legion is post-apocalyptic Sparta in all-but name, except the fact that Spartan women actually had a very strong position in their society.
@Firemonster221 The trader at the fort isn't part of the legion, just prefers trading with them. Most of the supply movement we see are slaves, most likely because they have more slaves than brahmin.
That’s not strictly true.
One of the many reasons for Rome’s domination, and the most important, was the martial society and deference to ancestors. Roman familial ties were not just important, but a requirement. This created a stunning ambition to not only see Rome survive, but to make it even greater. It was the path by which a Marius, a Sulla, or a Caesar would ever wield power. Defending and especially conquering an enemy not only brought power to an ambitious Roman, but brought an influx of wealth into Rome.
More than that, the Romans reserved (initially) the right to serve in the legion to landowners. The men who fought Hannibal at Callae were fighting for their land. The genius of this system gave citizens skin in the game. You wanted to be a citizen of Rome for many reasons. There were wars against Rome in which the enemy was fighting to have their citizenship recognize, after all. For most of the Republic’s existence, conquered peoples were striving to become citizens.
The Romans would have played the various factions off one another, not simply invade. They’d then get pulled into the war, as happened to Rome many times in antiquity.
The Banner of the Bull is stained red with the Blood of the different.
The Banner of the Bear is branded white with the Hope of the foolish.
The Contract of the House is penned blue by the Indifference of a machine.
Independence... what colours will you carry?
- Ulysses... maybe?
That was pretty cool.
to the top you go
No. Ulysses did not say that nor did anyone else in the game. You just made it up to sound clever.
@@5445jedi The good news? They _succeeded_ at sounding clever.
They get an upvote. You don't.
Independent Vegas shall be painted orange with the Dawning of Hope and the Setting of Arrogance, Ulysses. For it is only in the dawning and setting of the sun that progress shall be made.
And while the Bull will lick its wounds and the Bear counts its hoards, the Wolf will gather a pack around himself to fend off what may pass.
“Women can’t fight in the legion because they’re weaker than men”
As the current legion fighting ring’s undefeated campion is an female ranger
Well it's u if u play
@J N Morgan dat edginess im dying lmao
@J N Morgan ok edgelord
@J N Morgan ok nazi
@J N Morgan ok u troll u almost ged me lmao
NCR: Exists
Caesar: Are you challenging me?
NCR: "I diagnose you with actual cancer"
Caesar: *_"NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!"_*
NCR: what?
Caesar: Does abusing all these women scare you shitless?
no... that would be Lanius's philosophy in a oversimplified way:
"all beneath the flag of the great bear exist to test the strength of the legion"
NCR: we are and we will win.
the ironic thing is that Romans were very adaptive
exactly, they sure sought technological supremacy
I noticed that too. I'm a big Roman History nut so when I first played the game and had conversations with Caesar, I came away thinking "Man this guy really didn't know the Romans all that well". While Roman society did value conquest for it's own sake, they primarily liked bringing in new exotic luxuries and revenues. They didn't turn their back on cutting edge weapons of war either, quite the contrary. All sorts of things the Romans did that Caesar seems to have lost the plot on.
also they literally stole every enemy weapon used against them. And adapted them with a better technique than the enemy had.
@@rost123lav
Or were scared shitless by enemy weapons and adapted their tech/armour to better protect against it/fight against it. The Falx, for example. The scariest fucking thing an early Legionary could face.
The romans had archer batteries too, called the sagittaarii. Even aside from their pilums, throwing javelins. So they were absolutely happy to kill from the distance.
Caesar is just a fool who got as far as he did because the plot needed him too.
I regret never using Arcade Gannon as a follower, he roasted the hell out of Caesar lol
Jordan Kittrell never mind he is a follower of the apocalypse
@@jakestan1185 well i mean you can see why the kindest group in fnv wouldn't like them, even if caesar doesn't really care about them, lanius on the other hand..
@Amber Hoke i know
you, enclave and done
It’s pretty scary how if you have him waiting somewhere else in the wasteland, after you talk to Caesar he’ll magically appear outside the tent blasting you for helping them
The grand irony I see is Caesar: a man that has succeeded because of all the knowledge he collected from books appointed an illiterate savage as a successor.
Lanius is meant to mirror Marc Anthony...a soldier, a great general!!! What the Legion needs is an Octavian(Emperor Augustus), which might mirror the Courier
Lanius is much more we’ll versed the. You’re giving him credit he is extremely litterate given his vocabulary and is just blood thirsty
a sick nothing, truly a loathsome creature. You misplelled actual god of post apocalyptic war
Hiluminatu l *Laughs in Intelligence 2*
Mark David Chapman in tactics? In rulership? In what? A savage who just says “git um” is not going to pass as a leader
Me: The Legion is an Evil faction
*Hears Oxhorn's Legion Intro*
Me: Hail Caesar! Death to the Profligates!
He still hearts even years later
Ave
*NCR and Proud* “spraying Minigun”
they are messed up in some ways yet they are good in others,the only real issue i have with them is there slavery,but then again arent we all slaves to someon elses rule atleast for now.
i dont know why but i do like the legion for some reason yet am not a person that likes to obay others.
@@ernestofloresvelo162 the best ending can’t convince me otherwise. I always get the remnants to help the NCR while brokering a truce between the NCR and the Mojave brotherhood.. I mean it’s a win win for pretty much all parties involved except the legion lol
So they based themselves on Rome, and now they’ll fall like Rome? How poetic
Rome fell from barbarians. they weren't the barbarians that are being defeated by an empire.
@RetroGamerV32 They are a civilization. If anything, they are Rome and the Legion is the barbarians.
@RetroGamerV32 I know. I just pointed out that the positions are reversed.
@RetroGamerV32 I think the NCR is the best option, but House should be kept alive. He's a genius.
@RetroGamerV32 I wouldn't go for the Yes Man ending, but a cool theory. Plus, Yes Man did download everything House onto himself, so he could've caught the House Virus.
The biggest issue is that Caesar's plan is thus
Step 1: Conquer eighty six tribes and create a culture that values brutality, ferocity and none of the constructive skills needed for peacetime or civilization
Step 2: Conquer Vegas and the NCR
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Suddenly have a civilized state that can function in peacetime
Step 5: Proffit
To a lesser extent, that is how the ancient Romans ran their military. The ancient Romans would try to have a war every summer, which was (sorta) ended during the Pax Romanus. The difference is, like you said, the Romans had nation-building traditions that supported them during times of peace.
Their state can already function in peacetime. Their cities are said to be great, no crime, plenty of water, electricity, food, they have a higher quality of living than everywhere else. etc. At least that's what the developers say.
Not really. The Ancient Romans fought with strategy, tactics and, while the could be brutal, used brutality as only one part of a larger toolkit (for example, people that surrendered quickly or after minimal fighting were not only well treated but often rewarded). Rome actually did more than fight, and used their soldiers for such. The didn't actually actively go out looking for war, per se, but rather simply fought a lot of wars - though I'll admit that part is some historical debate, as it depends on the situation at hand too.
Further, the Romans were also not inflexibly stupid about their military structure and regularly reformed their militar structure, style and tactics to meet their changing needs, and even during the Empire, their very existence as a functional state did not hinge on one man so much that when said person dies, there was no one who could take power and actually run the show. And the Republic - that is, the terrible degenerate republic that Edward Sallow hates so much that were the ones to conquer the Medditerrainian, not the Empire, which mostly fought defensively (barring Cladius, Trajan and the endless merry-go-round in Mesopotamia/Armenia).
And, as you say, the did nation buiding, because they were an actual nation. They were a civilized settled people that had institutions and systems in place already before they went a-conquering, and expanded them when the annexed territory. Further, the didn't fund themselves on plunder - plunder was nice, but the point of capturing a territory was to exploit its resources successfully over the long term, rather than just taking everything not nailed down.
In short, apart from the cosplaying, Caesar's legion is nothing like actual Rome. Rome was not, until it's last dying days (and when it started doing that is one of the things that killed the Empire) a state that found one perfect system and then constantly applied it always. Which really makes The Legion a waste from a design perspective. The writers could have made The Legion actually function like rome, in at least a partial sense - because they still found have been slavers and brutal and more 'evil' than the democratic, antislavery NCR, but they would have been sustainable.
Ekkie Ekk True, but keep in mind that their cities are peaceful because they are operating under a police state that terrifies it's citizens. Once the legion war machine reaches the Pacific, it will face the same issue the Romans did: it's own generals will march on its territories and it's governmental structure will become corrupt and weak and be overtaken by enemies bubbling up on their borders.
The Legion hates technology and the cities they rule have electricity? Yes, I'm so sure that's what's happening in Arizona. The Legion totally rebuilt and run old power plants. *absolutely*. Give me a source because that's nonsense. The only positive thing said about the legion in that sense is that the roads are safer, and that's only if you don't accidentally offend some centurion's random slaughter button. Because they're not citizens, they're subjects that exist at Sallow's whim. So totally *safe* and such a HIGH standard of living with all that technophobia and lack of infastructure development.
For all Caesar’s talk of history, you’d think he’d remember the history of Alexander. The legion plays at being Rome reborn, but they’re more reminiscent of old Macedonia. And just like Alexander’s conquests, they are widespread and grand, but will shatter without him holding it together.
Most likely he did, that's why he wants New Vegas. It will serve as his bastion, his Rome that would solidify the framework of his nation and legion.
Kalsonic It won't stop the Legion's civil wars after Caesar dies.
For all his talk about history he chose for himself the term "Caesar", likely in honor of Caius Julius, meaning he modeled his civilization after a Rome that was already on decline. He talks like someone who got all he knows about Rome out of Asterix comics.
Thats not fair alexander died unexpectedly , would he have loved longer and had a grown son things my have been different.
TheGreekDeal Dictators die unexpectedly all the time lmfao.
If they already consider women to be weaker, then perhaps they could train women to be snipers, considering they consider both to be a lower position. Just delegate females to a position that they already consider to be lesser, that of long range combatants. It makes logistical sense at least.
women in the Legion are horribly mistreated though. You can't expect a minority who despises you to not shoot you in the back when they are given the guns.
They have women, as broodmares and pack mules.
Ceaser doesn't want families. He doesn't give them wives but concubines that they pass around.
But when they start racking up kills, it will make the legionaries look bad.
I’m guessing that if it were more stable and established, with a section of the female population actually having love and patriotic feelings towards the state of “the Legion”, Caesar would have no qualms with putting women at least in support and logistical roles which will not require them being in combat. And also in factories manufacturing weapons for the legionnaires. This would be the most pragmatic way to run the military.
@@holypaladin4657 but then the Legion would be less of an asshole of a faction, which I think is what makes New Vegas have that shock-factor edge.
My headcanon is that after Caesars death, legate Lanius has considerable difficulty keeping Caesars inner circle together. The legion ends up being severely weakened due to power struggles. It becomes ravaged by a civil war between vulpes and lanius.
So basically its Rome all over again.
Rome fell for a reason. It needs to stay dead.
More like vulpes secretly having lanius killed if we are doing it rome style
Bold of you to assume the Courier didn't already kill Vulpes.
Considering Vulpes' style, I don't think he'd ever try to take power for himself. Much more likely Lanius would have a more profound enemy in Caesar's senior commanders, praetorians, chiefly Lucius, with Vulpes assisting those who would not wish to see the legate succeed.
“Our weapons are made of mortal stuff”
>Displacer Glove
Surrounded with people with power gloves.
oh, the irony
@@HRavenfolks a buster sword by Lanus metal not bone blood
and his praetorian guard that uses ballistic fists
>Combat Knives, machetes, anything made of steel
Caesar's Legion has a policy of creating a homogeneous culture, one identity for everyone.
The thing is... the Roman Empire wasn't that fussy over this. They demanded that the conquered submit to Roman rule and law but respected local customs and hierarchies. They allowed kings to continue govern themselves and retain their positions but serve as client states to the Roman Empire. For example, Judea was controlled by a client king (Herod the Great being the most well-known). As long as they kept their domains in control, collaborated and assisted the Empire when it needed them and respected their rule, they were very much autonomous to a certain extent amd their identities and faiths tolerated as long as they did not cause trouble.
Caesar's Legion is more brutal than the Empire it tries to emulate.
It's probably more brutal because the times are more brutal, but you're right they aren't the same.
bernardcz92 the romans did try their best to assimilate the conquered people’s, blending their cultures a bit and trying to change their culture. They would sometimes add the gods of conquered people’s to their Roman pantheon, which is why the Hebrews were so impossible to assimilate, having only one god
Is that why the Illyrian culture is so well preserved to this day? Or how about Carthage?
@@justmonika2345 People say that the times of New Vegas are more brutal, but they really aren't. The Frontier of the vegas wasteland is a lot more pacified and less active than someplace like the capital wasteland.
Equally as important- the Romans allowed the continued worship of the conquered people's deities, as this allowed the subjects to maintain a high morale and thus more willing to contribute manpower when crises arose
RIP for everyone who was depressed about not being able to get the legate armor
It's still in the game files. And the armor of the 86th tribe from the lonesome road dlc is the same thing
Lonesome Road DLC;
Go to the end of the High Road where the Marked Men camp is, kill the Marked Beast at the camp, take his helmet, he's where most people get the Marked Perk (Now you have the closest thing to Lanius' helmet, as it's almost a carbon copy of his helmet)
Then bomb the legion with the nuke, go to Dry Wells, kill the guy wearing the Armor of the 87th Tribe, get said armor, put it on, put on the helmet.
BAM! Instant Legate Lanius without cheats.
And if you want the blade, theres quite a few Marked Men that carry The Blade of The West. It's essentially Legate Lanius' blade.
"The Earth is littered with the ruins of empires that thought they were eternal." - Camille Paglia
You did miss a few things.
1: the legion is a empire, a empire is meant to conquer land and towns. But we see they completely destroy nipton, which could have been a perfectly good place to set up a new economy.
And 2: slavery will help them for a while, but once you enslave too many people, the slaves will outnumber the slave masters. Increasing the risk of a rebellion.
They're just glorified raiders playing imperial dressup.
They never rebuilt. Killing and enslaving is the casualty of war, I get it. But they had no order. They just mindlessly pillaged and destroyed small towns to "show strength." No economy was ever built afterwards.
Bright Garinson But what was done in Nipton was good war strategy. It served to demoralize the NCR as an unexpected attack within its own borders. It was a maneuver that cost the NCR Nipton, strike where the enemy is not. Also with the lottery situation, it strengthened Caesar’s ideology among his own troops. Corruption of a local leader, and the ensuing selfish actions of its people in essentially allowing slaughter of their tribe in the hope of being the survivor. Legion would have seen a moral superiority over the selfish ‘rats’ of Nipton, in terms of considering the collective. But fear was the weapon. And it worked. It also cost Legion very little in terms of manpower. Sure, Legion loses those people and their value. But, the maneuver was an effective war tactic.
@@hansonmaynard9558 Conquering some helpless civilians without any real threat is not a good strategy. Attacking and conquering an NCR Outpost would be. And they completely destroy nipton. Like completely. It's on fire. Non-adaptive figs. Lmao
yes like the slave rebellion
and caesar uses decimation to beat men into line this will work until there's no more men loyal to him to protect him if there's a slave uprising
"We fight with our fists and blades!" Are we not gonna talk about the Legionary Asassins with their ASSAULT CARBINES and plasma GRENADES
Legionaries train with fists and machetes in case their superior ranged weapons malfunction or are lost, it is backup training that regular NCR soldiers don’t have
Where my thermic lance boys at?
@@D00000T spear can't work if it's broken
@@underfan7713 Good point.
They do not maintain or manufacture these weapons, they only salvage them from dead enemies.
What impresses me is how incredibly well spoken everybody in the Legion is. They must have strict education or something.
Which makes Caesar's rather crass way of speaking a bit jarring.
@Satellite_Of_Love It's probably meant to highlight his hypocrisy as well as showing the influence Joshua Graham had on them. He speaks crass because as leader he is above the rules and expectations.
@@Satellite_Of_Love Caesar is basically’ do what I say not what I do’ type of person
Caesar was a Follower of the Apocalypse and he had help from folks like Graham and Ulysses too.
You can learn a lot from old books
I find it funny that you made this epic intro that made the legion all badass and shit then the title card comes and it reads "why the legion is doomed to fail"
It’s like having a epic intro to a SuperHero and it says “Why DuperMan is a baby”
"The weapons I wield are forged from blood, flesh, sinew, bone - mortal stuff. Fragile, even... If mankind's going to survive this moment in history, it needs warriors and not gadgets."
Meanwhile, Caesar weakens his own argument by wearing... a fairly high-tech looking power fist on his right arm. Way to practice what you preach.
Arty Wang lol
I always took his argument as pointing towards the mistakes of the old world. That war has become so technological and detached that we ended up here.... with the wasteland.
Lol
To be fair,the "high tech" portion just makes the weapon hit harder.It's not like its a h2h lazer weapon that shoots beams,it's just a fist.
@@bearandthebull2372 Right, like saying my anti-material sniper rifle isn't a gun, it's just a fancy crossbow, or my rocket launcher is actually just a one-man mobile trebuchet. Caeser is a hypocrite of the highest order and the autodoc in his tent is just another example of it and don't get me started on the tech his legionnaires use.
3:03 "when we begin to talk with other members of the Legion, we discover the NCR has 1 great strength that the Legion doesn't have."
_Guns?_
"And that is long ranged snipers."
*_Guns._*
While I see why guns are superior to swords, I think that there's some problems with them. What the fuck do you gonna do if there's no reliable way of getting materials to craft more ammunition and make sure that guns are not for just fucking show?
Balázs Csótai at least for the NCR they have the means to make ammo so they have no reason to but the legion has no way to so it’s more of a excuse.
I think some legion soldiers use’s some fire arms
*G U N S .*
The legion has heaps of guns
I wish the Legion was fleshed out more. They were supposed to be incredibly cruel and savage, but their territory control and safety was top notch. Sacrificing freedom for guaranteed security. Instead all we see is just absolutely no redeeming qualities.
Yeah.
Like the Legion could actually be seen by almost everyone with good eyes if they weren't so savage and brutal.
¿Why they didn't tried to show Caesar's Legion as a faction that actually followed Rome's footsteps?
Like showing that while they indeed conquer a lot they don't destroy cultures or act like straight up animals against anything that opposed them, that they only went into full barbarians against enemies they couldn't conquer or tried to attack them without provocation
@@shian2724 actually if u really read abot them u exactly know this is how they did it destroying uncivilized backward culture and absorbing stron men into its army and woman into slaves
@@shian2724 that way the legion would've been hell of an interesting faction with a future instead of just being a faction for edgy 4channers
When even the best and most loyal of their soldiers/citizens can be beaten to death by their fellows because the whole group was believed to have failed in some way, saying it's at all safe is utterly laughable. Considering how they treat literally everyone else in their territory, yeah, they are monsters who deserve to be wiped out. I like their outfits, but that's all I'd keep from those monsters.
@@amberkat8147 Kept safe from Raiders, Ghouls, and typical hostile forces. Legion lore behind the scenes (also briefly mentioned by Raul) is that the territory is under complete control. It's crazy brutal, but it is efficient at maintaining its territory. Don't have to worry about randomly being raided or eaten by a deathclaw. Legion legit conquers all before it expands.
One of the most famous examples of Roman adaptation is when they reverse engineered a beached Carthagenian ship in order to build their own navy and challenge Carthage in the Mediterranean. Rome proceeded to smash the Carthagenian fleet and dominated the sea for the next thousand years.
If NCR is Carthage and their Rangers are their navy then the most Roman thing to do would be to train an even better squad of snipers, yet Caesar isn't doing this?
They didn't just reverse engineer carthaginian ships tho. They sucked at traditional naval warfare and they knew it. No, they did something more genius. They added a boarding platform to the front of their ships and boarded enemy ships instead of trying to ram them.
@@seanphelps4057 yeah, it was a cool bit it tech, but I'm pretty sure they stopped using it before the war ended, so it probably wasn't that good.
It's funny because, if you go the Legion route, a Centurion straight up SEETHES that NCR Snipers are ripping them apart, AGAIN, and tells you to go kill them or their plan is fucked.
What is ironic, is that the original Roman army defeated their barbarian foes because the barbarians were honor bound. They would rush the Roman shield walls and try to win through courage alone. Apparently Ceasar didn't real that part of the history of Rome.
The Romans were in it to win and they'd use catapults, Greek fire or anything else that worked. They were more like the NCR than Caesar's legion. Rome would have had snipers.
No what is Ironic is that Oxhorn's point about the Legion preferring Honor over victory was a blatant lie not backed by any in game examples.
Isn’t camp searchlight an example of the legion doing whatever is needed to win?
Lanius believed in honor to a fault but Caesar sure as Hell didn't, he wasn't above using very dirty tactics, best seen with Vulpes.
Wasteland Seven Rome did have snipers.
Cat ~ Well, they did have ballista, but, technically, that is a crew served weapon.
"And when Alexander saw the breadth of his domain, he wept for there were no more worlds to conquer." This will be the Legion after reaching the Pacific.
You do realize they can go east right
@@maxpain2037 Alexander could also go West, but there was nothing there really significant at the time. The Legion would really find very little till they reach the East Coast.
@@joevenespineli6389 and end up clashing with the East Coast Brotherhood (same problems) plus the Brotherhood has Liberty prime what does the legion have? not much.
@@gamepad3153 Yeah thats what I said, they COULD go east I'm not saying they'll succeed in conquering it. I'm more concerned in the lack of resources there is till the East coast.
@@joevenespineli6389 indeed and when they do reach the east coast,the legion would also have to deal with Super Mutants,Feral Ghouls,Raiders AND the Outcasts.
4:00
"You would think that after 4 years, the legion would change their tactics."
*shows clips of Legionnaires using long-ranged weapons*
That's Obsidians mistake.
@@xurthespineless8691 I agree. It was very stupid move by them.
I think the "full legionary by age 12" part about Lanius is made up. Reasons being it's hard to believe that someone that young could single-handedly kill all the adult men in his tribe, the Lanius we meet is obviously older than 12, and Joshua Graham states that he doesn't really know Lanius, only heard about him. Kind of hard to believe that a warrior of that much prowess couldn't have met the Legate at some point.
Another thing is Lanius's face is completely normal if we unmask him, so the idea that he was so scarred that he had to hide his face might've been made up as well. Either that or the original Lanius already died and Caesar picked a promising soldier to pretend to be him.
"You think after such a humiliating loss, the Legion would change their tactics" ... why do I feel like I've heard that sentence before?
*coughs in WW2*
@@invader450 German tactics in WW2 were pretty different than in WW1
@@brettroper1031 he means japan dude
@@ntmfalloutproductions4713 Oh shit
@@brettroper1031 oooooooooooooouf
"Many have criticized the legion for their atrocities, but these atrocities are part of their overall strategy." Ox says fully demonstrating this strategy by shooting the rest of his clip into an already dead NCR soldier 20:37
EDIT: Magazine, not clip.
*heh*
*magazine
Learn the terms. I like your comment otherwise
@@reidparker1848 buzzkill
@@mangoruby1357
Sorry. Force of habit.
Reid Parker wait do clips are for pistols and magazines are for rifles?
Rome: "only in sparta does it pay to grow old."
Ceasar's Legion:
Caesar is just mad about the use of guns because it prevents his massive brawl-style battles of yore, and thus prevents his Legion fantasy.
Something people don't realize is that the Legion represents the Roman Empire in it's downfall years, not it's glory years. Caesar has no right to call himself Caesar
Edit: Damn those likes. Come on you peasants, feed me your admiration muahahaha
I agree
Nothing can take away the extreme success he's had in such a short time. A true cult of personality, and the unification of so many tribes into a massive legion. That's all just one lifetime, due to one person.
Yeah, and once that person dies, the Legion crumbles on itself. That's the problem with one man dictatorships. Yugoslavia crumbled after Tito died, The Soviet Union slowly but surely destroyed itself after Stalin etc.
Edit: Oh and also he didn't conquer 86 tribes by his personality or charisma, he conquered them by massacring them into submission and assimilating them which if you know Roman history is one of the biggest reasons the Roman empire got screwed in the end
Marko Radokicik That's why he calls himself "Caesar". Ave.
Marko Radokicik He didn't have a heir, all his work will die if he don't found a dynasty
prepare for the 3rd battle for hoover dam in the comments.
Degenerates like you belong on a cross
Scout Ranger oh okay...
The brotherhood of steel above all, ad Victorium
Its already started, and its endandering all the nearby settlements, you need to help them.
Here I'll mark them on your map.
Hizkia Willhem the brotherhood is dead. I destroyed their weak Ship, their weak leader, and their weak army. Deus Vult.
Considering that the Legion doesn’t recruit from their civilized subjects back East, and only from assimilated tribes and Legion children, if they suffer a major defeat they may not recover if there are no more nearby tribes to absorb.
The Legion doesn't like technology, unless it's a radioactive bomb in that city in New Vegas or the Auto-Doc to try to heal Caesar or to give their most elite troops guns and explosives
Leaving your empire to the strongest doesn't work, just ask Alexander
ahahahaha so fucking true
Also to be fair, his empire only fell apart because he died in Babylon. If his leaders were like him, his empire might have stood a lot longer than it did, but as it turns out, his strongest was still nowhere near as strong as he was.
The Virgin Legion vs the Chad Enclave.
And he was too busy fighting that he didn’t have children, leaving no successor, leading to his generals taking parts of the empire for themselves
@@victorochoa3662 how its Chad if it got destroyed by a tribal who just yesterday sniffed healing powder?
I thought you would show those recruitment posters aimed at NCR female citizens when talking about how the Caesars stance on women as property weakened the Legion and galvanized its enemies. I remember going through the game and thinking the recruitment posters were all just some nice decoration until I got to those "Women of the NCR! Everyone of you who serves is a SLAP across Caesar's face! Tan his hide, ladies!" posters hanging on a wall. I was like... "Hey! That's some nice world building right there. Never thought about that."
That both explains why you find so many female NCR soldiers at every branch and I would guess it would make them quite commited to the war effort. Because damn, the male soldiers might be uncertain of what losing to the Legion would mean to them, but the women? They are fairly sure what defeat would mean.
I don't think it was that, the Ncr at this point has a giant coverage of land and with such a population and the current state of things bodies are needed so both female and males are accepted into service to bolster numbers. This helps in a lot of ways to cover Ncr territory but has its flaws as well. As for the Legion they never used females to my knowledge because one they took a shit ton of losses due to their tactics and need more children so they probably only had women fill the role of breeding stock and two they reflected Roman values which to my knowledge tended to give less rights to females I believe.
Men are complete white knights for their women, if they have women. If they're single, they probably don't care.
@@gorgefood9867 I think that depends on the person as for the fallout universe females and males are both seen as resources and can either be seen useful or non-useful depeding on the situation or faction.
Your comment reminds me of Starship Troopers (the book) by Heinlein. He describes that when cap troopers make a drop, the last thing they hear before going into action is a female officer wishing them luck(Most Navy officers were female, while all members of the Mobile Infantry were male). It's then said that being reminded of the reason why you're fighting helps the men go through the operation.
But in my own, personal opinion, I disagree with having women with front-line infantry - if only because men have inherent bias towards protecting women (cuz, you know, biology) and this innate behavior might compromise an operation or lead to unnecessary casualties.
Not to mention (and this might trigger a few) that females are less physically capable than men. In tests run in the army, mixed-gender units suffered more casualties than strictly male ones and operations took longer to accomplish.
Yeah, we're sure what would happen to us.
So we won't lose.
Caesar: “no minders tech”
Me:” what’s that on your arm”
ceaser dosent hate technology he think not everyone should have it now is that good or bad i dont know
Caesar: NCR bad cause they govern themselves on old world ideals
Me: says a guy who leads a faction based on the empire that has completely fallen in the end
Biggest irony of it all is that Rome was renowned for adopting the technologies and strategies of the nations and tribes they conquered. Their navy was Carthaginian, their swords were Iberian, armor was Etruscan, calvary was Gallic or Germanic, etc. Even civilian tech was like that, stuff like aqueducts and highways were adopted and improved upon after conquering other tribes.
@@alynthequestseeker3017 thats true, they were basically bunch of cosplaying raiders but a bit more organized. You could speculate that they have adopted strategy and tactics to be a serious threat even to those that use guns though
@@Brugar18 biggest counter to that is the rangers. Legion had 4 years to adapt to them but never did, or NCR heavy troopers. Imagine if the legion had a single squad of snipers or heavy weapons troopers and all the sudden the rangers might be screwed
@@alynthequestseeker3017 can't argue with that. Eventhough to fight somebody with supperior firepower using melee weapons would still take someone to develop some sort of guerell tactics
Yeah, given enough time any civilization will fall. To be fair, Rome did have a pretty awesome run though. Lasted in one form or another for north of 2,000 years. One thing Caesar doesn't seem to grasp though, is that a big part of why Ancient Rome did so well, is because they in fact embraced technology. Their aqueduct system for moving water around is one example. These days we don't give it much thought but 2000 years ago the ability to move around large amounts of fresh water relatively quickly was a BIG deal.
everybody else: every woman is a queen
Oh boi so Miyuki Ishikawa is a queen
Im joining the legion
The Legion is basically the ultimate *thot patrol.*
Oh boi apparently they also see little girls as only good for sex too since to them thats all they are good for......so also an army of peadofiles as well
Can you read English?
"It is not that they are stupid" while the character is throwing spears into a wall. HAHAHAHAHA
Oxhorn admited that he was not good with throwing spears (though props to him for trying anyway).
Stonefucius
*IT JUST WORKS*
well its ncr's wall so you are right
Legion motto " where theres a whip there's a way "
classy reference B)
We don't want go to war today but the lord of the lash say nay nay nay
14:30 and the legion enslaves, r*apes or crusifies its citizens, his argument is pure folly. The legion is pure evil in this game, it is a weird faction design when choosing a faction to support is integral to the main questline design.
21:00 Guess what, that doesn't make their atrocities any better. You could argue it makes it even worse as it is calculated and premeditated.
He is so used to brainwashing people to buy his hypocritical crap that he started believing it himself.
Ulysses has the coolest voice ever.
While I agree it's in the top 3 for NV, I'd argue Mr. House has the toppest voice in the entire series.
3rd is Joshua Graham
Nah the Narrator wins
ulysses makes a great companion as well
He was annoying I nuked everything before executing him just to be sure...
The Rangers are not just snipers they also act as heavy infantry, scouts, and infiltrators when it comes to the best long range snipers the NCR has you gotta give that to the NCR 1st Recon, The last thing you never see
cough cough I like the 1st Recon more than the Rangers
Rangers are best described as special forces,can be shock troops,scouts or assassins. Whatever they really need. That or super soldiers considering what they've been seen to do.
[Terrifying Presence] The last thing the saw was my Face. Ave
@@alaricdelano8159 They were indeed "Special" when we Assasinated Kimball. Ave
The Rangers are NOT heavy infantry.
@@centurionvicomus7398 True to Caesar
I find it funny that Caesar hates long range warfare yet he's more than willing to let the courier use this "morally bankrupt" tactic.
He hates the over usage, not the actual usage
He doesn't hate the act of using ranged weapons, he hates it being a military doctrine to be reliant on superior ranged fire power.
Hence why many of Ceasers top guys use guns, especially the frumentarii. Only when a soldier can survive without the gun, can he be allowed to use the gun.
And it's stupid all around. By that logic, you shouldn't equip your troops with body armor either. It'll make them complacent in not getting killed. Any army should equip their troops as best they can. The NCR has the active means to produce pre-war weapons and never be in short supply of them. It would be immensely stupid to go "Lets not use those. It'll make us complacent."
@@avengingarchangel1158 well what you are saying is a false equivalent and is pretty retarded.
If your industry cannot afford to equip the entire army, then making your troops the best they can be without armour before they get armour is an effective strategy.
It's a strategy that guerrilla and millitia armies have used since the dawn of time, giving the best equipment to the best, and giving the worst equipment to those who have yet to prove themselves.
You only have to look at the US and Russian armies. Basic US infantry is heavily dependent on air and/or heavy weapon support. When they have neither they typically pull back or hold their position until reinforcements arrive if engaged with heavy fire. The Russians are the same with their artillery, this drastically effects their mobility, and in times of desperation, their survivability, this is why the US has specific branches of its military designed to fight while cut off from constant and steady supplies, but the odd division designed to fight in such conditions isnt enough to bring victory on the strategic level, only the tactical, something the Russian paratroopers would attest to if they hadn't all been wiped out at the onset of the Ukrainian counter offensives. Or even the Soviets would attest to during their invasion of Afghanistan.
If you are an army that doesn't have much of either, then you can't afford to be reliant on superior fire power, you have got to be effective in other ways.and yes, there are other military doctrines than superior fire power or combined arms.
To have troops that are only as good as the weapons and guns that you can supply them with is okay if you can maintain a steady supply of such things.
For the legion to fight the NCR in this way is to fight the NCR at their own game, something the legion can't do.
Besides we see this in game. Places that the NCR deems unimportant to supply or simply can't, have troops that are forced to use local civilian weapons, and as such, their quality as soldiers decreases drastically. Yet in the hands of well trained, zealous soldiers then such troops would still be incredibly effective.
Hence the logic of the legion.
@@avengingarchangel1158 The armour is mass produced, and designed for speed over actual bullet protection since all they where fighting where dogshit tribals who can't shoot straight. It's only been 4 years since they actually came into a major fight with the ncr, transition to anything better would be extremely difficult. The veterans have better armour significantly, shown by the pieces of power armour on there dominant arm which came from there conflicts with the brotherhood
Imagine going against someone in power armour with a sword
**Caesar Logic 100**
I want to see Lanius vs Horrigan
@@ididntmeantoshootthatvietn5012 Enclave is the Antithesis to the Legion, can’t use blades when nuclear powered Vertibirds whip your ass hard and every soldier wields Power Armor and a Plasma Rifle. Hell the Institute would be able to beat the shit out of the Legion as they have waves of lasers and has such a good bunker that it requires the literal embodiment of Fallout America to open the thing up. Easy to say technology bad when you got people who are either in lower quality tech (NCR) or doesn’t have enough men to truly pose a threat (BOS).
And yet they still are winning.
@@kingrollypollyvii5565 i mean most of troops in mojave are young soldiers most of the troopers only had 2 weeks of training so it kinda makes sense
Even if it's successful at Hoover Dam, eventually, the Legion will fall from within. You can't squeeze people that long without them fighting back. Eventually, some Centurion will actually love his daughter and not want her traded away, raped and treated inhumanely. Eventually some Legionaire will have enough charisma to pull it off and a conscience that nags him about the atrocities he is forced to commit.... and attract others to his cause. Eventually the legion will create the thing that kills it - Ulysses was the prototype for that man.
I prefer to speed that process up. If you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself. So - after Caesar gives his villain-speech, I shoot him. In the face. With Joshua Graham's gun.
D i a l e c t i c A c c e l e r a t i o n
This is good, but I waiting until the ingame date is March 15 and killing him with a knife “et tu Courier?” “Sic Semper Tyrannis”
Samuel Peacock Arcade Gannon approves.
@Chris Schoenthaler - Well, that depends. He responds to you telling him you're going to kill Caesar in one of five ways. The most positive of which is "Just give me a sign when you're about to pull out the dagger so I know when to make a run for the cliffs." This would have made for an awesome scene - murder Caesar, shoot up his camp, and a narrow escape ending with a 400 foot high dive into Lake Mead and a swim under fire all the way to Ranger Station Alpha.
As it is, you shoot up the tent, massacre the camp, take a pleasant boat ride down to cottonwood cove - shoot that up, then trudge back to Novac, dragging two tons of Legion gear past a couple hundred NCR soldiers and a couple dozen rangers that now look like complete fools for ever being worried about Caesar's Legion.
It's made quite clear that a lot of legionaires still hold onto their own tribal beliefs. It can't even assimilate it's own troops and yet it expects to do that for the entire west coast?
+IllCaesar
Many of them, he lets on specifically BECAUSE of their sick tribal beliefs. Lanius is where he is because he slaughtered the adult men of his own tribe for allowing themselves to be captured. When you're dealing with such a group of self serving savages, you can't keep them leashed forever.
Caesar's Legion is ultimately not Roman at all. They can dress up all they want and speak latin, but the old world civilizations they resemble the most are the Spartans and the Mongols.
Ancient Sparta had a militarized, pyramidal society, with the warriors on top, a middle class with no political rights in the middle and a great number of slaves on the bottom to support those above. Communal living was the norm for the warriors, and they were fiercely attached to tradition and honor, incapable of change. Their lifesyle was dependant on slave labour, and the thought of the slaves revolting was constantly haunting them. Then, women had more freedoms than in other parts of Greece, but there was a major emphasis on their role as child bearers, as mothers of warriors, and their children were taken from them to be trained as warriors at age 7.
The Mongol Empire wasn't born as a unified kingdom. Like Caesar, the man who came to be known as Gengis Khan had to unify the Mongol tribes before conquering most of Asia. Like the Legion, they didn't develop the lands they conquered, and leaved their inhabitants mostly to themselves, as long as they did not revolt, but opposition to them was met with unspeakable acts of violence as retaliation. As the empire stabilized, they established a wide, prosperous and secure trade network. However, their conquests eventually stopped, as they overextend, and after Gengis' death the empire broke into pieces due to infighting.
That doesn't take anything away from the faction of course. They are all awesome and worth fighting for in their own special way... right?
Even the Spartans valued women more than the Legion does. The Spartans saw the value of family, it saw the value of training women in combat (even to not put them into active military).
NV creates the Legion as a weird Frankenstein of Greco-Roman militarism but with an 18th century view on women.
Less than 18th Century. More like Athenian views on women. I like to think of Caesar as the walking embodiment of toxic masculinity. No, they're not really Roman; they're puppets to stroke Caesar's ego. They are, as he calls them, "weapons" that he uses and disposes of at his leisure.
My guess is they didn't want to cause confusion with the great khans haha
לך
I don't know what you're talking about, but they're as close to the EARLY Romans as you can get in a post apocalyptic America
I just frigging hate how Caesar keeps saying that he based his society on the Roman Legions when, in truth, if the real Romans had enemies that fought with guns and power armors they'd immediately have their best engineers dissect them and understand them so that they could start mass producing them for all their legionnaires as fast as possible. The real Romans were quite literally a nation of engineers, that's actually what made them successful not their slaves, brutality or any of that bullshit. In fact, the real Julius Caesar hated how much the Romans relied on slave labor and considered it their greatest weakness, not a strength.
Didn't the Romans also adapt the weapons and tactics from the cultures they conquered as well? A sort of "adapt and overcome" strategy that isn't seen much in Legion forces
the legion resembles a medieval era khanate or something, a nomadic war machine
It's funny how caesar refers to Lanius as his finest battlefield commander because he throws his own men to their deaths until they overwhelm the enemy. Many leaders said the exact same thing about the commanders of WW1 for the same reasons
burned man: "omae wa mou shindeiru"
Legate Lanius: "NANI?"
I would've loved to see Graham fighting alongside you in the Battle of Hoover Dam.
Lol, what? Weebs. Weebs everywhere.
Stealth The Fox That smooth voice filled with the fire that once consumed him. Just cutting down the Legion with the weapons they refused to use.
Stealth The Fox you can actually. But only possible with a companion mod and optionally, an unlimited follower mod so you can have more companions. I played the battle of Hoover Dam with the Lonesome Road ED-E, Boone, Cass, Ulysses and Joshua accompanying me. We all killed Lanius 😂 👌🏼
I find the one of the most fascinating things about Caesar is that he is genuinely intelligent, genuinely thinks he is right, and yet his arguments are so transparently wrong.
Caesar has created a cult and surrounded himself with people with neither the willingness nor ability to challenge him intellectually. Arcade Gannon has pegged multiple fatal flaws in Caesar's ideas in fifteen minutes of dialogue. Caesar reminds me a lot of The Master, who also believed in what he was doing. The difference between the two is that Caesar's arrogance and pride that has grown undisturbed for years has blinded him whereas you could reason with The Master. You could talk to The Master, show him how his plan is wrong, and The Master shows an utmost remorse for what he has done while Caesar is just too bull-headed, no pun intended.
Caesar is such a great villain because you can see how he thinks, why he thinks the way he does, and why he won't change his mind. His motivations are not just understandable but relatable and the discussions witb Joshua Graham make it clear how Edward Sallow became replaced by Caesar, son of Mars.
Great great comment and The building arrogance happened to caesers from before I think it was marcus Aurelius is the emporer who had a servant whisper in his ear everytime he was praised " you are but a man " too keep him humble I suppose .
@@sephirothdomain1 Wow,really? Never heard of that,pretty impressive too,if it worked.
@@sephirothdomain1 only this Caesars problem isnt Arrogance, its that hes too Proud to admit his flaws, to concede that he is wrong, and it is THAT pride that will doom all who serve him, long after he draws his final breath.
@@UltimateGamerCC well said and yeah he is an all around douche nozzle
Own your puns you coward
21:53 “I ordered every man woman and child killed”
Anakin Skywalker: *Not bad kid*
I mean a big problem with Ceasers understanding of Hegelian Dialectics is it applies to IDEAS, not two armies smashing together, the point is to be flexible in your thinking and take the best parts of other ideas and meld them together into a more comprehensive world view. If you take it as literal, well you don't get some magic new synthesis when you throw water on fire, thesis and anti-thesis, you get a pile of wet wood and ash.
I'm surprised the legion lasted as long as it did. Running into battle wearing football pads against an enemy with firearms, they should have been massacred at the First Battle. But, they survived. One thing to consider, if the NCR gains access to the Boomers Bomber, why even fight the battle in the first place? Just bomb the Fort. Slaughter the Legion where they stand.
Really the only reason the Legion hasn't been annihilated is plot armour, in reality a well entrenched NCR group of fifty men could hold the top level of Hoover Dam if the plot didn't demand they not have barbed wire, artillery or Gatling guns. All of which would devastated the greatest Legion hordes in that bottle neck
mini2239 I agree
Remind me Caeser, do you recall an ancient war called World War 1? In that war millions of men would charge enemy gunfire just like your precious Legion does. How effective was that again?
Plus the armour isn't really the point, considering that neither side's armour can stop a bullet it's a moot point really
And yet the NCR is equipped with Vertibirds, we see when Kimball is delivered by one. Though they may be limited in number your Legion lacks the means to bring down even a single one. And are you telling me that with the entire economic might of the NCR they lack the means to create a single bomber
A) there is more than one vertibird.
B) The supposed successes of your Legion with all it's brutality and savagery can't remove one little tumour from your head now can it?
C) Your imagined genius of inviting the courier into your camp and into a private audience and giving them a powerful platinum chip with access to a technological weapon beneath your compound, even if he is shown fighting your Legion and helping the NCR. Perfect genius *slow clap*
This felt a lot more of a fluid story than some others you've made that feel kinda choppy. Thanks. This was really enjoyable.
Felix Alrick It definitely doesn't feel as rushed
Berzerker777 Oh the irony Lol
Chilliam Ace they are ruined when Caesar dies
Berzerker777 and that is?
Did a woman break Edward’s heart or something? I haven’t heard anything like that since the ending of Elliot Rogers’ manifesto.
@@libertyprime2013 The epilogue, were he wanted to put women in concentration camps and use them as breeding stock.
@An Angry Space Marine and yet, they can't have medicine that night make that method more.. productive
Legion fans: the NCR are cowards. Also Legion: *commits suicide to avoid being tortured for interrogation*
that's actually brave
@@mitragyninethespeciosa6891 how so?
@@onesaucynougat7471 Torture is a joke under the NCR. In fallout new vegas you can interrogate a legion member and the NCR were not allowed to do that much to him. Also all living things have the strong instinct to live under all circumstances.
@@onesaucynougat7471 "I'd rather die than give NCR scum any chance of getting information" That sounds brave.
@@kingrollypollyvii5565 so in a sense, you’ll know that the torture will break you and that you won’t be able to resist giving out information so you take the easy way out. Just how I view it:
38:26 Actually, Lanius is a significantly old man. Taking off his helmet reveals he appears to be in his 50s; it's generally accepted as canon that Lanius has for the longest time been *A* Legate in the Legion, but not *THE* Legate until Graham stepped down.
That said, there are hypotheses around stating that Lanius is a "legacy character", meaning he is less an individual and more of a persona that a Legionnaire will take on upon reaching a very special rank. When Graham was exiled from the Legion, the "character" of Lanius was promoted to fill his spot. Lanius will always be the second-in-command of the Legion, but whoever "Lanius" is portrayed by will change as circumstance demands (similarly how the current "Lanius" becomes the new "Caesar" if you let Edward Sallow die and obtain a Legion victory). This is supported by how the rumours of Lanius (being a mindless, violent butcher) can be at odds with the Persona you meet at Hoover Dam, who is more strategic and collected.
But that's all just a theory...
A game theory.
Well he shouldn't even have a face considering it was apparently torn off or at the very least badly messed up.
Lol. Graham didn’t step down. He was both figuratively and literally fired. By that I mean Caesar set him on fire and threw him down the Grand Canyon.
Edward Sallow calls himself Caesar, but he ignores the fact that the original Caesar came out of 500 years of Roman republicanism. Without that, there would not have been the traditions and institutions for the Roman Empire to exist in the form it took. The Roman Empire's endurance came from the institutions of the Roman Republic. Without that, at best, even if Caesar somehow manages to win, defeat, and conquer the NCR, you have a situation more akin to Alexander the Great (with the NCR playing the role of the Persian Empire): after his death, all his generals will divide up his vast empire into separate feuding kingdoms, and you're back to square 1.
@@nosferatuzod4991 imagine being such a braindead normie that you defend Caesar's legion unironically
@@keysersoze5639 Scissors's Legion Fanboy be like:
But you dont need to pay taxes under scissors rule
@@Zack-et9wj lmao right you just have to give up all cultural autonomy for your tribe and rights for your womenfolk
well...
shit
Have you thought about assimilation though? When Caesar takes over the NCR he knows his Legion will never be the same. When assimilating nations you don’t just get rid of there culture, you take traits of it into your own. The Roman Empire got the idea of the Collesium (sorry for the spelling) from the Etruscans, they got the idea of democracy from Greek colony’s in Italy. Caesar’s Legion will assimilate the NCR’s republican foundation which is why Caesar says that when he conquers the NCR the Legion will become a true empire. There is not much evidence to back this up except common sense for Caesar but I believe that after the NCR war is at least somewhat handled he’ll think about a successor. When you get a life threatening disease and survive you generally start thinking about this type of stuff. A potentially cool idea is that maybe the Courier will be chosen to take his place.
I think you have forgotten another fundamental flaw of the legion. It's over reliance on conquests for its economy and stability. Rome pinned its government, economy, and stability upon military conquest, and when the state could not afford to conquer any more it collapsed, be it slowly like the republic, or quickly like the Empire.
i watched this episode when it first uploaded i came back to re visit its already been 2 years wow time does go fast
If the Legion has no snipers, why do so many of the bastards run around with anti-material rifles?
I always saw 'tech weapons' such as energy/plasma weapons to be what were off limits to the Legion, as they do wear down faster than other weapon types and jam a lot when they're in poor condition. I always figured normal, regular old rimfire firearms and such were fair game but they were taught to rely on martial prowess first and foremost.
The only branch of the Legion that doesn't use firearms period is the guard, so.
Just because they have sniper rifles doesn't mean they are snipers. If they were snipers they wouldn't be rushing the frontline.
@@nosferatuzod4991 Exactly my point. The only true sniper I've met in any Fallout game is probably that one sniper held up in Minefield in Fallout 3. But in reality it's probably down to their AI making them do it.
@@nosferatuzod4991 Scripted sequences of course but once that's over they go back to charging deathclaws with hunting rifles. In other words they are only snipers when the game tells them to be snipers. You can't order Boone to take a position overlooking Cottonwood Cove and have him provide sniper support. You can put him into a good position but he won't do anything unless the Legion engage him first and then he'll go back to his usual antics.
@@49mozzer As a former USMC Designated Marksman, let me say that this distinction is rather pointless and overall irrelevant to this conversation. The 'art' of marksmanship or 'sniping' (or whatever fake ass backwards idea of badassery you've mentally attached to the idea) isn't something you can hand-wave away due to game balancing, weird AI / wonky path finding or etc. They have 'snipers', flat-out, end of story. What those marksmen do in terms of tactics doesn't matter, I'm speaking strictly of lore.
Caesar's Legion has snipers. End of story.
The most interesting irony to Caesar's disdain or apathy towards technology is that he even wields a weapon that utilizes tech. I believe it's called a displacer glove or something.
Miguel L power glove actually but you're right.
@@ArcherDrake287 no, displacer glove.
@@connergilby605 no it's displaced glove. How would I know? I just killed him a few hours ago
Jell-O it’s the power glove
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck
How dumb are you people? Caesar has said time and time again that he has nothing against advance technology per se, but that he doesn't want his Legion to rely on it too much since they lack the experts needed to manufacture or maintain it. For God's sake, they don't have a faction like the NCR has the FoA to help them around!
Say what you want about the Legion, but you can’t deny that the line “severing arms before they can attack, legs before they can run, and heads before they can pray” is badass as all hell
I find it interesting how much detail the game went into when making the legion. In the game they care about honor and Valor, and see the NCR's long ranged weapons and explosives as "cheating".
The Roman's often thought of a true battle as being fought on flat, open ground. When their troops were stretched thin on roads, and barbarians hiding in the woods on both sides launched abushes, the Roman's often saw this as cheating. They referred to it essentially as "treason".
Took a long time for all European armies to drop the bright uniforms. The French began WW1 in bright blue patriotic outfits. They learned soon it was getting them killed and changed uniform.
Reason why is because the smoke of the battlefield makes it hard to see, so bright uniforms allow for a better chance at spotting the officer, allowing you a better chance to follow his orders.
Not until half way through WWI though.
Then again, that is what you get when you let "nobility" run the wars. They're more about their own personal honor and looking good than the ugly business of killing people en mass that is war.
The Evil Scot Officers were usually upper class. Not quite nobility but definitely rich and powerful.
Baker Tankersley that’s just an excuse they used later in the war. Blue uniforms are stupid
dsmythy there was no reason to not show heraldic colors before WW1. And camo only became a suitable trait in war when en masse infantry conflict shifted to small infantry skirmishes.
>bunch of use to be tribes of savages
>Based ideology on the Roman empire
>Slavery
>Leader is bald guy with tumor
>Mostly fight with Melee weapons like machetes and spears while their opponents use ranged weapons like guns
>Trying to fight the second battle of Hoover dam after they lost the first one
Of course it's going to fail
Austin Payne to be fair they barely lost. the Ncr felt the lost more since they have less troops and citizens in the Mojave
James Lopez the legion could of taken the dam no problem the first time if the NCR were to have less troops
Plus even if the legion won the first battle it wouldn't be long until the NCR would send more troops to take it back
Austin Payne the problem with that is with no courier the legion succeeds with no help for house and benny bringing the platium chip to the legion. The ncr will lose the second battle by default if you die in goodsprings. The battle of attrition is their biggest strength.
James Lopez I said "if" the legion won the first battle
@alvi syahri why do people like you never read before writing?
Caesar: Only noobs use snipers. We are not noobs! Nobody will call us noobs!
The Legion actually changes its tactics after the first battle, changing from Triplex Axis formations (Newbs, Pros and Veterans in ranks) which allowed the snipers to easily target the back lines and kill the commanders. They change to mixed ranks "fire teams" so that youd have to waste time picking individual officers from the horde.
Yeah, and it's not just their tactics for battles, it's how they run their entire war operation that changes. The legion has men on the other side of the river, attacking supply lines, destroying bases. The legion are fighting in a completely different way to the first battle, and by every single account you see throughout the game, they are winning the war.
The game makes it pretty obvious that the legion adapted to their defeat.
Hegelian dialectics further simplified: society swings on a pendulum between two extremes. Getting closer to the mark with each swing. This pendulum applies to any issue. That’s basically what it means. Caesar wants to obliterate half of the pendulum movement
The Legion could have been so much more, but Caesar's ego ruined their potential. They really could have started a new Rome. Caesar had the education from the followers of the Apocalypse, ties to the followers of the Apocalypse, and the ability to actually build his own Rome and build his own Roman Empire. They are only glorified raiders that have some Roman names and matching uniforms. And Cesar also seems to have given no thought to exactly what's going to happen when he's gone. Actually he might not care. He might just be interested in building what he can now to his own phallic monument. Instead he could have built an Empire or even a republic that could have continued long after his demise.
Also, dude, you need to manage your grenade launcher skills.
@Anthony Johnson Are you in the White Knights of the Apocalypse?
God, New Vegas was such an amazing fucking game. So much emptiness and desolation, but when you interacted with anyone, you were guarenteed an amazing story.
If they cant stop a single mailman from waltzing into their fort and tearing apart their command structure with nothing but a Big Iron, I'm not sure if they're exactly going to last a lot longer.
i mean you can do the same thing to Camp Mcarran the NCR main base
NCR literally could not stop the legion from destroying Niption.
Said mailman is capable of literally murdering every living thing from the wasteland.
I mean I conquered all the ranger stations, camp forlorn hope ,McCarren, camp golf ncr outpost an the caravans then wiped the dam solo before the war ever happened with one machete in hard-core very hard
44:15
When you say that the NCR didn't grow stronger after the first battle at Hoover dam you're not entirely correct. General Moore says to the courier that she trained NCR soldiers in hand to hand combat against larger opponents to counter the Legion's shock troops. Though she obviously made clear that it was a last resort it shows that the NCR did recognise the Legion's strengths and adopted tactics to counter them this becoming stronger
She also tells them to try and throw their weapons off the dam if they're mortally wounded.
I may hate her, but damn is she a good tactician. Only if their needs to be a fight.
That also kinda plays into the "Legion failed to adapt" argument, since, while minimal, the NCR DID make adaptations against the legion
“Then he orders the ritual of despacito”
In which every tenth soldier will attempt to sing despacito and others will beat him up.
Tenth Soldier : "des..pa..ci.."
Other soldiers : so you've chosen death
HAHAHAHA
Truly a monster forged from the fires in a post apocalyptic wasteland.
wut
Call me Kevin reference? Hahaha
Ave, true to Caesar
This made laugh
While I do agree with most arguments against the Legion (I myself am definitely not a Legion fan) but one must also consider that Caesar is trying to model his actions after his namesake; Julius Caesar who ended the Roman republic when he crossed the rubicon (in his case the Colorado). He wants to synthesize both the NCR and Caesars' Legion into a New Roman Empire but where his fault lies is in the fact that he's already instilled an identity in his Legion that won't be so easily erased once he conquers Vegas and if he even manages to conquer Shady Sands. The legion won't identify as "New Californian" but rather still as a member of his Legion and even though its' stated there's a whole line of succession lined up, the truth of the matter is Caesars' time is too short even with the tumor removed to both create this synergy and groom whoever that heir might be, none of them have what it takes to actual rule and fulfill Caesars' dreams. Caesars' Legion is a viable alternative to an anarchic wasteland, but not a viable alternative to House, Yes Man or the NCR.
“We train with our blades and our fists.”
I don’t think you can win against a .357 I guess his reasoning is guns can jam/run out of ammunition. Even though there’s loading benches fucking everywhere 🤷♂️
Exactly. If you're running up with a blade against a trained marksman in real life, you're dead in one or two shots.
@@totmgsrockxd9900 In real life you wouldn't be able to shrug off a giant chameleon with the strength of 10 bears swiping its metal rending claws at you at full force like someone just tickled your side with a feather over your shirt.
SamuraiJerk Yeah
@@Killer36661 Yeah and I don’t think any Human could survive a shot to the chest with a Anti-Material Rifle.
Also speaking of the .357, that gun doesn't jam
does Caesar realize that Rome fell due to over reliance on slave labor and an over expansive military? Like he’s acting exactly like Rome did and Rome was ripped apart by barbarians and another empire (the NCR in ceasers case).
while I agree with your first point It is my opion that at the height of Romes power the roman legions were replaced by groups of mercenaries the problem with this is that someone who fights for there nation and believes in it will also fight and risk there life for it unlike mercenaries who fight for a pay check
And? Does that change the fact that his plan is to get rid of the slaves and create a new society that isnt so cruel and militaristic?
no I was just saying why I think the roman empire fell from dominance
shame they never finished or cut the content of Legion towns and civilians. it would fleshed them out more maybe even made them more defensible in an discussion but sadly all we got was bandits cos playing as Romans.
And that's where you are wrong. Rome fell not due slaves, but because almost banning them. It fell because of abandoning of it's culture and replacing it with christian one.
I have 0 clue why caesar will just refuse to make use of better weapons and tech. The irl caesar used literally every single piece of technology he had available in his campaigns. Including ranged weapons (bow and arrows).
Mr Edward doesn't understand that just because he read a few books on the Roman empire doesn't mean he has the full picture. He just arrogantly assumes he knows everything about them.
I always did like how Lanius wasn’t an idiot.
the main issue i have with caesar's view of Hegelian dialectic is that Caesar thinks of himself to highly on the scale and at the same time, thinks in too small a scale. he dosent realise that the legion and the NCR are in fact 2 sides of the same coin. while they have different methods, both are the oppose to total chaos, a lawless wasteland. even house is not immune to this as he says himself that things would run on his schedule (a point when he mentioned that he would make the monorail "run on time", as if that was in any way important), but funnily enough, there is a synthesis that all of them fail to see. new Vegas. in a weird way, Vegas is an odd beast of organised chaos, heck vault 21 was built on the fact that disputes were settled by chance and was in fact a much happier place. this is due to what i believe chance has over the draconian rules of the legion and the bureaucratic nightmare thats the NCR, chance is fair, not nice mind you. the synthesis i believe is something with enough rules to be safe(er) with enough freedom to be happy. its not a perfect place mind you, not by a long shot, new Vegas has huge problems. but its the start of something better.
zellos Node
The real Caesar would have recognized that, forced them into a tributary alliance, then go to war with Gaul - I mean the Commonwealth.
Agnarr Salventius Although seeing how powerful both the Brotherhood of steel, the Institute, and possibly the Minutemen is on the east coast, I’m guessing Ceaser would be making a tributary alliance with the commonwealth as well.
I don’t see the Legionaries lasting long against Liberty Prime.
Boone shot Vulpes Inculta in Nipton before he even said a word lol
33:10
Imagine if he missed somebody with the capabilities of the courier
Stage 1: Denial