'Russia is not going to be beaten' | David Owen on how the Ukraine invasion should end
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- čas přidán 9. 02. 2023
- The former Labour foreign secretary David Owen has said Keir Starmer is "wrong" to suggest Putin be put on trial at The Hague.
When asked whether he agrees with Keir Starmer, Lord Owen told Matt Chorley on Times Radio:
"I'm pretty wary of that. Firstly, it's not going to happen unless Russia is beaten, and Russia is not going to be beaten. I think it's the wrong language to use, quite frankly. We are not going to destroy Russia, so much so that they will offer up to The Hague. We're not going to send the SAS into Russia to seize Putin and take him to the Hague. A lot of these legal solutions, it's perhaps no accident that Starmer is a lawyer.
"We were able to do it in the Balkans which I know very well because we got a resolution through in the UN and we had support for international action and we had the special court that we set up to try war crimes committed in Yugoslavia, carried by the UN. We're not going to get that in Russia."
On whether the UK should send fighter jets to Ukraine, Lord Owen said:
"I personally think the best offer would be to go back to what was thought about, namely, let the MIGs in Poland go to the Ukrainians, and put our aircraft into Poland. That would be very quick.
"A new plane that they are not used to is not going to be that. What they need now is more MIGs. Their pilots fly MIGs, they could do it immediately. And Poland is ready to do it. But they can't give up all their aircraft themselves. They have to have replacements, so Britain could step in and supply aircraft to Poland."
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Well Owen makes some valid points but regarding Crimea he is wrong, after all that the Ukrainians have suffered and the countless war crimes, they will not accept Crimea remaining in Russian hands. As for Putin, who knows what the future will bring. Slobodan Milosevic thought he was untouchable too.
Exactly. Even if, and repeat if we only think in terms limited to the Ukrainian and Russian confrontation without looking at the big picture of this conflict, it is crystal clear that Putin's Russia has crossed the line in this war, and by crossing that line they've disqualified themselves from any other acceptable end to this war except being brought to total defeat, and Mr. Putin himself being brought to face trial at the Hague.
Also Crimea is a conundrum, it is dependent on fresh water supplies from Ukraine, so cannot belong to Russia unless Russia takes even more land from Ukraine.
@@Katoshi_Takagumi
Dream! And awful joke. Russia will win that war. Story of bringing Putin to justice is not serious. Russia is stronger then this joke.
If Milosevic had nuclear weapons NATO wouldn't have invaded Serbia.
@@wolfswinkel8906 Possibly not, but they would have placed heavy sanctions on them.
He didn,t have a clue then and still hasn,t a clue now
So he is a typical British politician then.
@@Andrew-rc3vh moreover he is s puppet of the usa and nato!!
@@paixducoeur I'm getting the strong impression that Times Radio is also another mouthpiece for the Pentagon, hence why they have him on.
@@Andrew-rc3vh without no doubt: here is an other sound: czcams.com/video/rnut-E_eEM0/video.html
@@Andrew-rc3vh correct with more faces than a town hall clock and power mad.
Ludicrous, good men have to stand up to evil!
Watch Ukraine Agony, The Concealed War.... for clarity on youtube
@@lindabowman2868 👋 troll
David Owen never fails to disappoint.
I refuse to disagree with you on this
Typical worthless Labour man. Look at the damage BLAIR caused.
Hat off to Poland and the polish people for their help to Ukraine...
The POLES are a decent bunch of folk..they were a GODSEND in the second world war..with the HEROICS of their pilots with 303 squadron..and now bearing the BRUNT of providing succour to the 3 million or so desparate women and children who have crossed their borders.. FOR SAFETYS SAKE.. STAND UP AND TAKE A BOW!! POLAND.....
Polish - capital P, dude!
No one ever accused the Polish of being the brightest bulb.
@@dchappy6985 Care to develop this?
@MCADHD666 VOL2 Many European countries East and West are former "Colonial Masters." Do you propose their former and present vessel states should fight proxy wars on their behalf? 🤔 I think not. Let them fight their own wars.
I remember the time when Owen was Foreign Secretary. He just got about everything wrong. Nothing has changed.
D.O. did a lot of things wrong in the former Yugoslavia.
He is simply a fool because Russia will win!!
@@paixducoeur and what makes you think this?
@@doubleplusgoodthinker9434 You just need to inform you beside the mainstream lies!!
@@paixducoeur Your English is terrible and which " mainstream" lies are you referencing?
I want the rest of this interview
doctor imagining that medical training somehow qualifies him to speak on any other subject with authority.
Master class in appeasement.
Some people never learn
literally watch the video in full
@@Nas_Atlas I did.
@@Katoshi_Takagumi Then you're clearly just too thick to grasp the points Owen makes.
@@squirepraggerstope3591 Oh I grasp most of them. The west's response to how Putin grabbed Crimea in 2014 was pathetically weak and amounted to borderline appeasement. Clearly any of the sanctions that were enacted then weren't strong enough to achieve anything. However, we are past the point when letting Putin keep Crimea and maybe little pieces of Ukraine will satisfy him, and that's the fundamental mistake the appeasers always make whether they are technically correct on some points or not.
David Owen should check his memory. He was a leading figure in politics in the 1990's when Ukraine agreed to give back to Russia all of the nuclear weapons it had. A 1994 agreement (known as the Budapest Memorandum) signed by Russia, U.S. and UK guaranteeing Ukraine's security for de-nuclearising Ukraine. Europe also was involved in these talks and so the US, UK and Europe should stick to that agreement with Ukraine and ensure Russia is sent packing.
Exactly.
My understanding of the Budapest Memorandum was not only that the signatories committed to respect the independence , sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine. It went further and committed the signatories to providing assistance to Ukraine if any of those terms were breached. Russia, far from assisting Ukraine, is the very one responsible for breaching the terms (and in such a cynical, brutal and inhuman way). What is the point of negotiating with them?
Precisely. Lord Bloody Aslicker.
Maybe time to give the Ukraine a FEW Nuclear ICBMs, a month ago I watched a video about the former Ukrainian Colonel in charge of the Ukraine's Nuclear Assets, filmed in the Nuclear Museum in Kyiv in a ICBM silo! Surely this Colonel STILL knows how to properly launch an ICBM aimed at the Kremlin! Knowing that the Kremlin and Moscow would be destroyed should be ENOUGH to FORCE Vlad Putin to remove ALL of his forces from the Ukraine...to include the Crimea!
@@khiem1939 Exactly, enough of this idiocy of dribbling out weapons to Ukraine, and I’m sure that with the state that Pakistan is in, they’d be happy to sell a few of theirs to Ukraine.
The quote for used for the title is very misleading when taken out of context. He says Russia can be defeated in Ukraine. Later, when he says Russia won't be "beaten", he's referring to being "beaten" in the sense of toppling the Russian government completely. That's a far cry from kicking them out of a country they are invading.
and yet the goal of much of western management is to use this conflict to do just that - topple the current govt !!
in this case, at a certain stage, the use of nuclear weapons will become inevitable. For Putin, losing means losing power, and losing power means death or jail. when a person has nothing to lose, he will try any methods
@@NordStar7 Fortunately a few people have to authorize nuke use. I doubt his minions will destroy their families for Mad Vlad Putain codename ztard.
Don’t underestimate D Owen. I remember when Honduras put troops on the Belize/Honduras border he sent a frigate plus RM’s in the area he talked but backed it up with force.
That would be Guatemala, Belize's arch enemy. We have very little problems with Honduras.
Easy to back it up when your not the one fighting.
@@JarmilaMatousek So who would make policy if not civilian politicians? The military? Several Latin American countries tried that in the 1970s and they became brutal dictatorships that killed tens of thousands of their own citizens.
Lukewarm assessment and very transparent in acknowledging European appeasement which has led us to this point. All territory must be returned to Ukraine or this war will NEVER end.
💯
Nah, just hand him Poland It worked out great last time.
A little more will be needed, some form of guarantees that the Kremlin won't ever get to try this again. Whatever that means, it won't mean a worthless piece of paper with Mr. Putin's signature on it.
@cgaud1n69 Very much agree. We are not moving forward listening opinions like that.
If you think Ukraine is taking back all its territory you are going to be pretty disappointed when we settle and they lose a decent amount of land
I've rarely felt more angry or disgusted with a British politician than in 1987.
This was when David Owen called a vote of the SDP membership over whether it should merge with the Liberals. He campaigned against the merger, but he lost the vote. He then spent the next few years trying to claim that that decision of the SDP had not happened.
How he had the sheer gall to complain about parliament over Brexit shows the shamelessness of the man.
They don't make politicians like David Owen any more. The world is stuck with pound shop politicians.
If you mean David Owen is the 50p shop politician then that observation is salient one.
I only remember how ineffective, contrarian and weak Owen was during the Yugoslavia conflict. He was also Milosevic's buddy - not a good look. He probably thinks Putin is a rather nice guy and would like to have 'dinner' with him one day, if he hasn't already. You should never allow medical doctors near a peace conference - they're always the worst. No, Russia is going to be defeated all right - Big Time.
Well, it seems he's still a useful idiot for genocidial maniacs.
wow
yeah people confuse medical expertise and benevolence with political wisdom and cunning.
Lol. He also thought he could send the SAS into russia to get putin. Those guys would be slaughtered. But i guess project strength when you are weak and all....
There are plenty of socialists out there who think Putin is okay because they both hate NATO and the US. This idiot thinks that the war will end with a negotiation but acknowledges russia will break it and pretends that a Ukrainian victory is impossible. Remember at the time we were all told that we would never get Milosevich either.
Alternate title "how to stop being bullied - just give him your lunch money"
Perfect sum up of the video 👌🏻
Negotiation is not appeasement. Negotiation requires great wisdom, sadly it's in short supply among Europeans and Americans nowadays.
As usual, most people on CZcams dont listen to the full interview. He said, most wars end in negotiation which is historically and practically accurate. He also said:
1. It was a disgrace that Europe allowed the first invasion of Crimea and the Minsk agreement was an utter failure on the part of France and Germany.
2. The challenger and leopard tanks need to be sent to Ukraine immediately, not in a few months
3. Ukraine could possibly defeat Putin in the summer
@@wolfswinkel8906 well the stated negotiating goals seem to be "any piece of Ukraine is Russia's" and "all of Ukraine is Ukraine even Crimea". Negotiating starts when both sides are tired enough of fighting to actually negotiate.
He doesn't say anything of the sort?? bizarre comment
This man helped to keep Thatcher in power
Good for him.
As a "Social democratic" Peer sitting in the House of Lords, it is a pity Mr Owen did not mention anything about asking what the Crimean people want !
Former commander of Europe General Ben Hodges tends to disagree on Ukraine beating Russia
Ben Hodges is a war mongering psychopath who's on the payroll of the Defense industry. Total warhawk
I think Hodges' mandate in his myriad interviews is to sway public perception as to keep the money and armaments flowing to Ukraine. I imagine his own beliefs about the possibilities of outcome are somewhat more measured than those he puts forth to the media.
Also, I think you misinterpret the statement that Owen made. He doesn't seem to discount the possibility of Ukraine taking back their own territory. He was stating that to put Putin on trial for war crimes and such, you'd literally have to invade Russia, and thus the idea of dragging Putin to the Hague is preposterous.
He has also stated that Ukraine would be indefensible if Crimea remains in Russian hands.
Which is why he says that Crimea is doable and desirable.
Kicking them out of Ukraine beating Russia. To beat Russia Ukraine should add Russia to it's territory and i don't think even the hardest supporters of Ukraine see that happen in their lifetimes nor do they want too.
"My good friends, for the second time in our history, a British Prime Minister has returned from Germany bringing peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time. We thank you from the bottom of our hearts. Go home and get a nice quiet sleep." - Neville Chamberlain , September 30th 1938 ...
what ? this has nothing to do with this interview.
@@nopants4259 nonsense. Of course it does.
Completely different.
We/ the NeoCons/ Victoria Nuland should never ever of backed the coup against the ELECTED government of Ukraine 8 years ago that started this nightmare off.
Let the oppressed Russian minority brake free. 14,000 dead BEFORE the invasion. The burning alive of Russian civilians at ODESSA destroyed Ukraine for many ethnic Russians. This is not our war.
The NeoCons destroyed Iraq Syria Libya Afghanistan and will end up destroying Ukraine.
@@evolassunglasses4673 Blah blah blah. Sound like ‘neo-cons’ is your pet word.😂
I’m so sick of people saying wars end with negotiation - obvious! The important point is what happens on the battlefield - I wish commentators would focus on that.
Its important to have dissenting views even if they are wrong, especially if they are wrong.
It's only dissenting views if you disagree with them .i think you're probably wrong but it's your opinion
when it's wrong, must fight it! Otherwise it gives too many Trump free to lie
David Owen, this is the man who lost to the Monster Raven Loony Party
Raving.
If you dredge up the swamp you get swamp creatures.
He never had a chance against an opponent that had a clear understanding of right/wrong and who made much more sense.
Two powers that don't want to be beaten can only lead to one end.Mutual destruction
That's not what happened last time around Europe. No reason for it to happen now.
Errr, no. I refer you to WW1 and 2.
@@kimweaver1252 If they had nukes then would have ended that way
@@zlauriault hopes
Uhhh, no, not so. In WW2, none of the powers wanted to be beaten, but there were still winners and losers. What you want is not congruent with what you would like to get.
Russia does not need to be totally defeated but enough to get Ukraine independent!
Perhaps someone should suggest that Owen talk with military experts, and not assume that he knows it all.
The "experts" that destroyed Iraq Syria Libya Afghanistan and will end up destroying Ukraine?
Like the ones who said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction?
Like the ones who took us to Vietnam?
Those the experts you’re referring to?
@@travman1987 Those were politicians that made those decisions. Like Owen. He is a fool. Doubtless he doesn’t have a clue who and what Putin is.
good lord, how terribly embarrassing for you ! 😂
What nonsense. Someone else has come out of the woodwork.
Lord Owen, the death star is complete. Fear will keep the other systems in line.
We should have put David Owen in charge years ago
Aircraft to Poland and MIGs to Ukraine. Great idea. Should have been done yesterday.
Im pretty sure they already moved to Ukraine last year as 'spare parts'. You knows, IKEA your own MIG.
Which RAF aircraft to Poland? We don't have any spare Typhoons or F-35s. It is easy for David Owen to say, but he does not know the facts. Ben Wallace and the PM do know the facts.
See news article *Poland reportedly delivered MiG-29 fighters to Ukraine as ‘spare parts’* dated 2023-01-27
Poland has already delivered operational MiG-29 fighter jets to Ukraine in secret, local media has reported.
The claims were first reported by the local daily paper Dziennik Gazeta Prawna, citing governmental sources. The fighters were allegedly delivered disassembled, labeled as spare parts.
‘The fuselage or wings are also a spare part,’ the sources commented.
The exact method used to ferry the aircraft was not disclosed, though with the Ukrainian airspace closely monitored by Russia, it is likely that they were transferred by train.
Agreed, they should give Ukraine every weapon system on their wish list and then some. They should treat it like a bandaid, the quicker you pull it off the less painful it is. We should pressure our government until they do. The US Army can deploy whole armies anywhere in the world in 48hrs.
@@CJ_Ludwig501 48h is only after darpa finishes work on teleportation, still, sending everything is a good thought.
If he was in the military in WWII we would all speak German
WW2 was not fought with thousands of nuclear weapons on BOTH sides.
WW2 had a small number of nuclear weapons at the end of the war on just one side, which made ending the war quite simple.
Mister Owen has in my opinion a good approach. And conc. the European perspective: it is only logical, that the European nuclear powers UK and France have to lead the defence against Putin - and therefore I strongly critizice Macron: it seems that he does not understand that Putin is a criminal, not a politician, and he will always behave like a criminal and not like a politician. Years before I thought that Marcon is intelligent - and now I see: sorry, he is not as it seems.
Imagine .. If he was 18 years old at WW2 he would of been 103 years old man today. Does he even look 103 😉
As usual, most people on CZcams dont listen to the full interview. He said, most wars end in negotiation which is historically and practically accurate. He also said:
1. It was a disgrace that Europe allowed the first invasion of Crimea and the Minsk agreement was an utter failure on the part of France and Germany.
2. The challenger and leopard tanks need to be sent to Ukraine immediately, not in a few months
3. Ukraine could possibly defeat Putin in the summer
@@kralikkral5560 - Agreed. I think Macron just was given very poor intelligence reports. People living in eastern europe (i know many) fully understood years ago that Putin is a criminal and in fact they told me Putin is likely to start a world war because he has so many enemies and needs the chaos and smoke-screen of war and ultra nationalism to survive.
Sounded like a hawk to me.
He only said that Russia wouldn't be defeated in Russia.
In fact Russia will win in Ukraine too and if the hawks continue sending weapons Western Ukraine will be a failed state we will be stuck paying for in perpetuity.
Politicians know littile about war and generals know littile about politics.
The old man knows how to be not just a US vassal, but a lackey. It's not enough just to follow the master's orders, you have to anticipate them. You must want war more than the US government and show your diligence and enthusiasm.
We in Croatia remember this horrible non-person Owen very very badly.
Can you elaborate that please, he sounds very reasonable
Probably your own fault then, to be honest.
Alzheimer’s?
Lots of us can remember the atrocities commited on each other by citizens of former Yugoslavia. The alternative to NATO not getting involved was to stand back and watch people behaving abominably. I doubt that many residents of NATO countires are grateful to you for forcing us into that predicament.
@@cristiancea85 to elaborate: Owen was appeasing in 1991 serbian dictator aggressor Milosevic like he is apppeasing today your KGB dictator Putler. Didn’t help. Croatia won the war against aggressor Serbia…same will happen with Ukraine that will win the war against aggressor Putlerstan
Never thought much of this man's opinions, still don't.
We must all think the same on all issues at all times.
@@evolassunglasses4673 not all issues but the important ones, yes
Nevil Chamberlain.
So when I break into somebody's house and destroy all their stuff, they have to just accept it because someone comes along and says that we should stop fighting. Oh and I'm keeping the house too. Logic
I agree with the sentiment but it the analogy doesn’t really work on the world stage - it’s too simplistic. I absolutely wouldn’t accept someone breaking into my house but I can call the police and know (or hope) the weight of he law and penal system is on my side. On the world stage there is no such system. David Owen clearly supports Ukraine but he understands the realities of war and unfortunately it’s possible he’s right that Russia can’t be pushed back to the borders. I hope they can but there’s no point indulging in wishful thinking. Right now I can’t see the path to the sort of victory for Ukraine we all want.
Your analogy needs a more severe option to be realistic. You can't have 2 options.... theres a 3rd option where your house is destroyed totally and all of your family is killed.
That's a ridiculous oversimplification which ignores the Kosovo precedent, NATO expanding eastwards despite assurances given to the Russians and the fact that overwhelmingly Russian Crimea was given away to Ukraine by Khrushchev.
U forgetting that they military operated in their own house being Ukraine, this what happens when ppl carnt behave rationally, death 💀 and war , the child @ school gets a spanking cause they children , grown ups sadly get killed 🤭
The usa financed a coup, civil war erupted, Ukraine shelled the civilians in the Donbass (ethnic russsians, as the whole southern part). Russia felt threatend (it was) and invaded. Logic.
I like Owen he's the only true Conservative (who never was a Conservative)
How dare you say such a thing😤
In west we say Ukraine is bravely advancing backwards and Russia is cowardly retreating forwards🤡🤡🤡
How will Russia survive with Ukraine taking back large swathes of territory in a week and Russia unable to make any gains across a 2000 km frontline in 6 months? I don't understand your logic David Owen
and you haven't heard him, so is the clever one?
@@russellspeed1693 oh I have. Perfectly predictable guy this Owen
@@MGGitari agreed. Russia's made "progress" lately, but at extraordinary costs. Ukraine CAN defeat Russia if we stop listening to weak people like Owen. We need to stop trying to convince ourselves that we can't or shouldn't defeat Russia. It's not that we can, but we must.
@@alainlefebvre9860 absolutely
Well it wasn’t this week that’s for sure 🤣
Why are journalists still giving him the time of day? He has completely discredited himself with his own words.
Note that many of times guests have similarly irrational positions that sometimes happen to coincide with political expedience. They just hide political pandering behind a false veneer of superiority. Quite disappointing.
@@thetruth9210 Only from the neck up, apparently. 🙄
which words did he discredit himself with?
He got it all quite well except that bit of Russian soft propaganda saying that Russia can't be beaten. He should check the news. Get Ukraine what they've asked for and Russians great grandchildren will still feel the shrapnel.
Where's the money for all of this coming from
Peace
Kudos to Poland ... From the USA. They seem to love Ukraine and want them to win.
Why would anyone be interested in what David Owen thinks? No one is interested in what I think and I'm absolutely comfortable that I am more intelligent and better informed of real world issues and geopolitics than he evidently is. In fact, I think my cat probably edges him out on competent decision manking.
Bad day or inside knowledge?
Bet you backed the Iraq Syria Libya Afghanistan bloodbaths.
And spelling 😜
Manking? Did you forget the W!
Can we hear what your cat thinks, please?
Victory is actually quite easy to describe. Push Russians back to boarder, supply SAM's to protect Ukrainian airspace and then negotiate the possibility for Russian solders to stop dying for nothing.
If Russia refuses, Ukraine should go free Ossetia and Abkhazia from Russia.
If the west pulls their thumbs out of their arses, Russia will be out of Ukraine, including Ukrainian Crimea, by late summer. Decimate everything Russian inside Ukraine, join NATO, defend Ukraine with NATO forces like Poland of today, and dare Russia to try a repeat. Ukraine is a sovereign country and has every right to self determination. Do this at any cost. Because... China is watching.
Ursula van de Leyen said Ukraine has lost 100,000 troops killed in action already. Alternative media puts it at 157,000 +. Ukraine was very close to negotiate at the start (former Israeli PM said) but America and Boris persuaded them to stop negotiations.
The NeoCons destroyed Iraq Syria Libya Afghanistan and will end up destroying Ukraine
Indeed when Russia is beaten back to the pre 2014 border if Russia does not stop it's aggression it should be the aim of the West to destabilise Russia until it stops or Russia fragments.
Slava Ukraine. 🇺🇦🇬🇧
Useless though
@@ivancho5854 lots of ways to do this. The Russian infrastructure can be dismantled by sabotage, cyber warfare, lots of other ways to bring Russia to its knees if need be, but start with getting them out of Ukraine
Cut tax avoidance by banning offshoring, shell companies etc !
This title is somewhat misleading. He didn't say Russia couldn't be defeated in Ukraine. Instead, he meant the country of Russia was not going to be invaded and defeated resulting in Putin carried off to the Hague.
He actually stated that he thought Russia could be defeated in Ukraine by midsummer.
No offense but how could anyone think that?
Without NATO coming in, they will run out of meat to throw into this grinder.
Who has more meat? Russia or Ukraine?🤣
Russia is dominating. The media won't tell you that they have air land and sea superiority... They are obliterating Ukraine with artillery.
Tell me this. How many bombs have been dropped on Russia?
For all practical purposes, Ruzzuh has already lost, in that they have not achieved ONE of their original goals that were supposed to take a few days to a week and is now on the doorstep of the one year anniversary with troop losses approaching a quarter million, dead and sufficiently seriously wounded to take them off the field. Ukraine's military is now battle hardened and well trained, has far superior morale and esprit de corps, is fighting the from the simpler defensive status, is fighting on their own turf, has a pipeline for weapons in greater quantity and quality than Ruzzia can manage to field, and is facing a rag-tag bunch of Ruzzians pulled from prisons and mental hospitals.
Fun fact..... the Russkies are the single greatest supplier of armor for the Ukraine Army. Ukraine has more tanks, and more "modern" (for a T72 variant) armor than when Ruzzia invaded.
They have lost lots of SU25s, KA52s, MI-8/17/24. They lost a friggin' CRUISER and flagship of the Black Sea Fleet, they have had their symbolic bridge blasted, had the fleet assaulted by UMVs with damage to a frigate and tanker. There have been a significant number of shake-ups with Generals being demoted and moved around to give the impression that Pootie is on top of the situation........... spoiler alert........ he ain't. Endemic corruption has rotted the rooskie military out from the core. No one really is sure what supplies are stored where and if they even work anymore. More than one vehicle has been recovered with what seems to be only a dead battery. The vehicles sat for so long that the batteries wouldn't hold a full charge, so if the engine died on the battlefield, it couldn't be restarted and was abandoned. Some just ran out of fuel. Some tanks and tracked APCs had relatively minor track damage, but the crews were not skilled enough to replace it in the field, so they walked away from expensive hardware.
@@kimweaver1252 not true. The truth is Russia wins the longer this goes on. They want to exhaust Ukraine. They don't want a deal, they want a surrender.
@@jim6186 Wrong. The longer that this goes on, the more experienced, modern, and powerful the Ukrainian military becomes and the more depleted the wannabe Soviet Army becomes. The power struggle between Prighozin and Putinistas is further hampering effective consolidated military action. They have less of EVERYTHING than when they started and the west's economic war has nuked Ruzzun finances. Biggest deficit since the fall of the CCCP. No reliable source of microchips. Economy in collapse. Their pre-existing demographic collapse is now proceeding at an accelerated rate, with many of the young, bright, creative Russians LEAVING for the west. Not only are the Rooskies deprived of this resource, but the west gains them and their talents. But the elderly pro-Pootie pensioners stay and bleed the economy.
@@kimweaver1252 I think you are confused.
Hundreds of thousands of innocent ukranian civilians will have been lost by the end of this war while Russia will have lost only military personnel.
In addition Ukrainian infrastructure will have been decimated along with the Ukranian economy which has over 75% of it's working for e unemployed because of this war.
This is a heartbreaking war for Ukraine because of their devastating civilian and infrastructure losses which never had to be lost.
Putin will not allow a NATO Presence on his borders and who could blame him???
This has always been the case. Russia will secure its borders at all cost. The wes (USA) does not care about the human life being lost in Ukraine. Ukraine is basically a western human sacrifice right now. This war is being fought for western benefit. Ukranians have no interest in being a NATO grift. However their losses are not necessary as they simply could have maintained neutrality with Russia. Zelensky is a puppet for the west who sold out it's entire countries people for western profit.
Now wallstreet is waging war with Russia while Ukraine suffers the loss of civilian infrastructure and life.
Even if Ukraine can hold it's ground and win the war, it will have lost the life and infrastructure it would have kept if Zelensky make it neutral to Russia.
Essentially Ukraine is being bought by western Wallstreet for the purposes of the USA military exploits such as bio labs and nuclear armaments...
Is Ukraine being decimated worth that price? Are ukranians worth the cost of Western influence in the region?
I'd want nothing to do with the United States if I was Ukraine and understood the history of Western intervention.
The USA will use you up and spit you out. This is a proxy war fighting for financial interests.
Losing life to for the sake of USA financial stake holders in the military and natural resources industry seems like a high price to pay when Russia will have gained a foothold on their border.
What will Ukraine have gained?
Certainly not freedom? They will have been decimated for the sake of the western financial stake holders Zelensky sold out to.
Sounds like Ukraine will have lost everything it ever wanted either way no matter the outcome. From, sovereignty to life, they will either be absorbed back into NATO or Russia and will have lost its economy, infrastructure, and life in the process.
They would have gained peace if they would have maintained neutrality instead of selling out to NATO and turning their country into a pit stop for western financial grifters.
It's lose lose for the ukranian people who I assure you just want to be autonomous from both Russia and the west...
They could of had that if Zelensky didn't sell his soul for his own political gains... A puppet for the USA.
That's why longer range missiles are useful. i.e. to destroy the invading Evil Orcs depots and supply lines further out. i.e. like 300 miles out.
He will use sarmat 2 in the end
Zelensky needs to have talks with Russia or wave the white flag
@@petersmith6974 nope ruzzian troll. putin will be hanged as a war criminal after russian military defeat.
@Theo 30 Do you don't see the common theme in what you yourself are writing. Missile SHIELD, sending defensive weapons to Ukrainine AFTER Russian invasion 2014.
All this are defensive reactions to what Russia is doing.
A Satan 2 means Russia will not lose unfortunately
After hearing this gentleman giving his opinion and suggesting for Ukraine to negotiate with a genocidal dictator who never respected any international agreements or ceasefires, I want to remind everyone that this man's views were on point when he was younger. Let's take into consideration that he was alive during actual cavalry charges in battle. Literally.
Send the damn planes to Ukraine ASAP. Both Migs and Eurofighters. There is not that much difference in the way they operate and Ukrainian pilots will learn quicker than what this young fella thinks.
Slava Ukraini from Spain!
GLORY TO UKRAINE !!!!!!
@@billyjohnesterhuizen6340 Glory to the heroes!!!
Actual cavalry charges? No.
It is futile sending fighter planes to Ukraine which they cannot maintain themselves...
Being able to fly them is just the tip of the operational iceberg.
Supplying antitank weapons and similar is much more cost effective and practical...
@@LewisSkeeter Polish ex-cavalry officers not much older than the gentleman would tell you all about some from last century.
1994, budapest. hurd was foreign sec. 'One of the defining features of Hurd's tenure as Foreign Secretary was the British reaction to the Yugoslav Wars. During the Bosnian War, Hurd was seen as a leading voice among European politicians arguing against sending military aid to the Bosniaks and for maintaining the arms embargo, in defiance of the line taken by US President Bill Clinton, and arguing that such a move would only create a 'level killing field' and prolong the conflict unduly. Hurd also resisted pressure to allow Bosnian refugees to enter into Britain arguing that to do so would reduce pressure on the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina to sue for peace.[25] Hurd described his and British policy during that time as 'realist'.[26]
Dr Owen...makes a lot of sense.
IF... you are a desperate dictator of Ruzzuh. Otherwise......... No.
We should not ease sanctions until they give up the war criminals in the meantime an international arrest warrant will greatly curtail their activities
Arrest Victoria Nuland? The NeoCons destroyed Iraq Syria Libya Afghanistan and will end up destroying Ukraine
You should have been around when we in the West attacked Iraq and a million people died ... on the lie that there were weapons of mass destruction.. I guess you want sanctions against us for doing that ? I guess you want George Bush and our PM to face war crimes ? Of course you do because you are not a hypocrite are you ?
Sanctions have hurt us more than them, Russia GPD is going to grow this year and UK is going to shrink, absolutely terrible policy. Put hard working people in a cost of living crisis and failed to destroy Russias economy.
Your right. Both Joe Biden and Zelensky are war criminals. They should be put on trial now.
Why do reply's disappear?
Russia wasn't beaten by Germany in WWI but they suffered a serious defeat with the result a political change. Russia wasn't beaten in the Cold War but they did suffer a serious defeat and again the result was political change. Russia doesn't need to be beaten by Ukraine; a significant defeat should be enough to trigger a political change and maybe this time unlike the previous two, Russia ends any form of autocracy in favor of a more pluralistic government. Only then will there be peace.
Russia wll never change. They don't know any better. They are raised to be passive. Greetings form Poland.
The Putin Nazis will collapse just like the USSR did
@@Blanka1100 then we need to keep them demilitarized, once Ukraine is done decimating them.
well if the effect is that the governmental structures change so that war cannot be continued than it is a form "beaten".
@@sp7873 It's not a matter of one Putin in the office. It's Russia/USSR which created Putin, not the opposite.
Germany is remarkably quiet on this .
If Germany gets it's third world war, we should really think about making it the DIVIDED Holy Roman Empire again.
This person talks about negotiations after victory. There are many details to sort before victory. And finally what negotiations would be after defeat? And the last question: why are we pushing that war before trying serious negotiations for peace?
If "lord" is in anyone's title, they should not be in any government position period.
Alas, that's not how the UK works....diluted democracy
Yeah, so get rid of the first Lords of the admiralty and treasury.
The title was awarded after he was no longer in parliament. Though why it was awarded at all in unclear as he never did anything worthwhile.
Position period?! Are we American now?!
@@bigblue6917 he lead a relatively large party.
I will invade Owen's house, and of course Owen will let me have it.
We destroyed the house when we/ NeoCons/ Victoria Nuland backed the coup against the ELECTED government of Ukraine 8 years ago. 14,000 people died BEFORE the invasion. The burning alive of Russian civilians was the end of Ukraine for many ethnic Russians. Let the oppressed Russian minority brake free. Independence and freedom for the Dombas.
This is not our war
If you have nuclear bomb on you,Owner's probably would
@@dianafriedman2384 Not my house u would need to use the nuke to get my house but then its nuked no good for anyone never give up never surrender!
Russia won't use nukes... He (pootin) even said it recently claiming he never threatened to use nukes
@@dianafriedman2384 So where's it stop then? I guess every small country needs a nuclear bomb then.
He is living in a mythology of the past.
He was woolly minded back in the 70s/80s and is woolly minded still...
A defensive alliance you state …. BUT ….. Ukraine is NOT a member of NATO ….. DEFENSIVE ??? Tell that to to citizens of Serbia ??? It comes a time in life when we all get so much older there’s confusion…… clearly it applies here !
With a deficit of about 7 trillion rubles the Russian coffers are empty by June or July…
And it's going to get worse as the screws tighten and military costs escalate.
Old man yells at cloud ☁️
I'm an American and had to Google who David Owen is. From THIS discourse I would say he seems to have things well understood. Much is going on in the United States where opposition to the current administration is beginning to ask, "How much money should the U.S. spend on military aid to Ukraine?" Nothing wrong with that. That's democracy. Such things are debated for the benefit of the system. I just hope it does not degenerate into partisan fighting. I hope against all hope these days in the USA, but at present, it's a healthy question to ask. But ultimately the US and the free world cannot let this expansionist aggression go unchecked. Putin's only argument is that NATO is encroaching on Russia. He's right. It IS!. Why is that? Perhaps decades of Russian/Soviet rule have galvanized now-free people to say, "Never Again". This they choose willingly and democratically. Too bad Mr. Putin. We reap what we sow. Perhaps the better course for Russia is peaceful economic cooperation with the West. It was working. Russia was profiting. Just not the Russian people. That's for Russia to sort out itself. That takes no small measure of courage by the Russian people AND a decent chance at success. The latter is what Putin has seemingly squashed. For the time being.
Thank you to our host and guest of stature David Owen. Wise counsel. Masterfully presented
You have no idea what Owens did clearly. Go and do some research.
Fred K sorry pal, but this is absurd advice from a man apparently still living in the 1960s, 70s. Russia has not posed a serious threat to the West for 30-40 years, after they voluntarily disbanded the Soviet Union and sought closer/friendlier ties w Europe and West. And in return, the West - especially US - has tried to rub their nose in it since 1991, by completely ignoring their repeated, understandable concerns about NATO expansion eastwards.
@@UKtoUSABrit So, you want to return to the good old days of the Cold War when the Eastern half of the continent was under the Kremlin's direct control, and the Western half threatened by Soviet nuclear weapons? Btw, NATO didn't aggressively expand post 1989, it chose to let in the former Warsaw Pact Members who, after 40 years of occupation, were desperate to join Western institutions. Same goes for Ukraine and Georgia who, after being denied NATO membership, were promptly invaded by Russia in 2008 & 2014.
How nice of lord Owen to come onto your programme to promote his book. 😂
😊😊😊🤪
He was useless when sitting as an MP., and from his view point, one can, see that he hasn't improved with age, whilst sitting in the House of Lords. I believe he's a complete idiot! It's only my personal view.
This man doesn't actually have a scobby doo about what he is talking about. Russia has invaded 3 time Donbas Crimea and now. EU has no control of EU countries military. Seriously how can you let that slide in an interview.
it's you that has no idea
David Oven is a practical strategist. His strategy does not involve western troops but to keep the East Europeans fight Russia. A war strategist will not be bothered if this causes attrition among others. In other words East Europeans can be used as buffers.
Talks a lot sense
Appeasement got us to today's War
So nothing to do with breaking promises like the promises not to expand NATO eastwards and the promises made in Minsk I and Minsk II?
@Black Cat Dungeon Master's Familiar You are parroting a tired, bullsh*t narrative, and you know it.
@@KinoTechUSA69 Holland, Merkel, Poroshenko and now even Zelensky admit Minsk II was a sham to BS the Russians.
@@blackcatdungeonmastersfami5311 America never had any right to speak on behalf of Eastern Europe and Russia knew that. NATO doesn't make membership easy so it's not as if they're actively recruiting countries. It's Ukraine's right to turn to Europe and join NATO because they're a sovereign nation that makes its own choices. Russia broke Minsk I & II agreements when Putin declared they no longer existed. Russian officers and troops were in LPR and DPR and bombing both sides throughout then blaming Ukraine. Putin lies because he wanted to destroy and control Ukraine and he suckered D/LPR to achieve that. Ukrainian separatists are f*ckwits who believed Russian propaganda so go live in post-truth Russia because your cities and homes will be destroyed before this war is over and you're little more than traitors to Ukraine. Reap what you sow.
@@fortunecookie3765 It's not that you're completely wrong, it's more that you only have one side of the story. Yes Ukraine is a sovereign nation. Where the US state department sponsored a coup overturning the democratically elected government and then went on to appoint a new government. Which murdered a lot of anti-Maidan ethnic Russians.
Anyway pretty soon the Americans will dump the Ukrainians just like they dumped their allies in Afghanistan and Iraq and before that Vietnam.
And you pro-Ukraine simps who only know the NATO propaganda will move on to the next big thing the propaganda tells you to get outraged about. Which is probably going to be China by the looks of it.
Putin would starve his own before admitting defeat. Desperate times ...
True but the Tsar tried the same thing in 1917
Putin only wanted peace - zelensky and the CIA instigated this
@@muckle8 War is peace. Ignorance is Strength.
Heavily disappointed in Owen here.
Terribly out of touch, especially for someone once so immersed in foreign affairs.
Just a load of talk from Kier Starmer. There isn't going to be any war crimes trial, and Starmer knows it. He just wants to sound tougher than Rishi.
Russia has been beaten many times in its history.
But , never lost war ?
🤣
@@MrLu4o, one example: Russo-Japanese war 1904-1905:
"The complete victory of the Japanese military surprised international observers and transformed the balance of power in both East Asia and Europe, resulting in Japan's emergence as a great power and a decline in the Russian Empire's prestige and influence in Europe. Russia's incurrence of substantial casualties and losses for a cause that resulted in humiliating defeat contributed to a growing domestic unrest which culminated in the 1905 Russian Revolution, and severely damaged the prestige of the Russian autocracy."
They got slaughtered in Afghanistan and her to leave with their tail between their legs 😇😇😇
@@bobrail733 I ment, war. Not tiny conflicts .
Crimea is geographically Ukrainian, this has been made very clear by the war ironically (water supply and logistics..... ) - the use of the Russian language does not mean an area is part of the new Russian Empire, otherwise half the world would be British.....again!
Oh no, some people are speaking English in russher *Rule, Brittania! starts playing* 🇬🇧
There are legal borders.the UNGA voted 143:5 that Russia must leave and respect the Ukrainian legally recognized borders, which includes Crimea. The situation is crystal clear. Russia won't leave on their own, so we need to help force them out. It's really that simple.
Crimea was only handed over to the Ukraine in 1954 for no particular reason certainly not a democratic vote amongst it's people .Previously it had been part of Russia and before that a Tartar Khanate or Ottoman possession
@@Marvin-dg8vj no, Crimea was part of Ukraine when they voted for independence after WWI, before ! they got invaded and annexed by the newly formed USSR in 1921, here is the map from 1919 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_Ukraine_%28postcard_1919%29.jpg
@@RainerMichelle your map from 1921 also shows Ukraine spreading over most of Southern Russia north of the Caucasus. This is completely crazy .
Hello Neville.
At first I thought David Owen was an apologist, and then I didn't, then I did,
"russia is not going to be beaten",. and why not? This is the Ukrainians no.1 Goal.
Should be everyone's goal, unless they fancy seeing several European countries fall into Putin's hands and bring about the end of NATO as a serious counter to Putin's terror.
Russia can be beaten. They're already on their knees. Constantly having to mobilize hundreds of thousands isn't a good look. And the equipment losses are enormous. The Soviet stockpiles are not endless.
Defeated in Ukraine but not in Russia, unless his own people offer him up he will never be tried for it.
I think it is silly to suggest beating the Russians only counts if Putin is arrested or Russia stops all assaults on its neighbours. Ukraine's standard for victory is reclaiming it's border. Then there is further demands or ending conflict, returning kidnapped people, stolen goods (art, history, money), trails and other issues.
Russia is unlikely to agree to it all but I doubt the Russians will consider what amounts to a raid on Ukraine worth 300,000+ lives if that's all both sides get.
I think Russia would consider it a defeat and Ukraine a victory. Just not a total victory.
Well, if you think Moscow is going to fall, and a beaten Russian command capitulates, then perhaps you’re right. Not just that, but a permanent member of the UNSC decides to direct that Putin be offered up at The Hague. But…. Er….. I suspect it won’t happen like that.
Migs from Poland were sent already just registered as spare parts, it was done without much fanfare but this is confirmed
You do know Mig-29 are outdated. Russians build those Mig during the soviet era and they know its weaknesses and it is outmatched with Russia's Su fighter jets.
@@jonatikoisuva2695 Yes, so if they are outdated certainly Western jets would be better. I was mainly clarifying on the point that was brought up in the interview was not correct any more because Polish Migs are said to have been transferred already so cannot be considered a substitute for transferring western jets anyway
@@wayhome5 Migs were designed by Russian way back in the 80's, the new generation fighter jets are the mig35,Su27, Su30, Su34, Su35 and Su57. Poland only has 23 Mig Soviet Union Era fighter jets, that's the only mig they have. And no fighter jet has been delivered to Ukraine, it's just rumors...Poland has a total of 71 Fighter jets and sending some to Ukraine is no no.
Pols like German people who practically destroyed them in the 2WW
@@jonatikoisuva2695 This David Owen doesn't know what he is talking about.
Most wars from WWI and earlier ended in negotiation. A great many wars from WWII and onward have ended in utter defeat for one side.
Somebody lost territories after that and empires have broken apart. Guess why not the Russian one ,so it should be their turn now.
@@mksensej8701 Those Empires didnt have nukes. Russia has nukes so good luck humiliating Russia by taking Crimea expecting everything will be just fine.
@@robotube7361 Yes, the robot troll. They can try and use the nukes to see where they will get.
@@mksensej8701 They wont try. They will use em and you should watch simulations of eventual nuclear Exchange between NATO and Russia and see where NATO and Russia will get. Having Ukraine in NATO is the death of Russia. So it wont happen. Just like US couldnt tolerate missiles in Cuba, Russia will not tolerate Ukraine in NATO. Its that simple.
@@mksensej8701 be realistic not a Nintendo player (--crimea is gone forget it - - Europe had different borders in the past and no doubt will change again - - borders are not sacrosant but a man creation - - when u understand that you'll know no worth dieing for
The idea that Britain, after leaving the EU, now makes foreign policy decisions completely independently is absurd. I support Ukraine to the hilt and we have led the argument in many respects but ultimately we do tow the American line. EU membership didn’t prevent us from taking a leading role in the disastrous Iraq invasion that spawned a decade of violent sectarianism and jihadism across the Middle East. I see no reason why Britain wouldn’t have supported Ukraine strongly from inside the EU.
Victory for Ukraine means Russia will lose. Slava Ukraini from the United States of America.
Yes sirrr god bless
The NeoCons/ Victoria Nuland should never ever of backed the coup against the ELECTED government of Ukraine 8 years ago that started this nightmare off.
Have you seen Seymour Hersh Substack on America blowing up Germany's gas pipeline? The NeoCons are out of control. They destroyed Iraq Syria Libya Afghanistan and will end up destroying Ukraine.
THANK YOU MR. CHAMBERLAIN.
The quickest, cheapest way to stop the war is for a small number of guys to target the propellers of ships on route to Russian ports in high seas.
Britain, the US & France have a Treaty Obligation to send in troops and all the might they have to defend Ukraine as they Guaranteed the defense of Ukraine when they all persuaded Ukraine to give up their Nuclear Capabilities in 1994. Had Ukraine kept its Nuclear arms this would never have occurred.
The right answer to most of these questions is not to answer them.
No one knows what will happen in the battlefield and in Russia over the next ten months. Perhaps negotiations will happen, perhaps Ukraine taking Crimea will become impossible, but leading figures in the UK shouldn't say so. To say so will encourage Putin that the West lacks the resolve to continue supporting Ukraine, and will make negotiations less likely. Thankfully, Owen is yesterday's man, on TV to promote his book rather than as a leading figure in the UK.
PS Full disclosure. I've never been a fan of David Owen, and I've at times said, if Owen says something, the right policy is probably the opposite.
" We need to focus internally on paying off debt etc" That's incredibly difficult to do while you're under artillery fire. First you secure your borders, then you rebuild. Your borders are still threatened.
I generally agree, but is Britain under artillery fire?
@@hymns4ever197 just repeated threat of nuclear war. For now.
I hope EU and USA are paying UK with better trade conditions, because otherwise UK only loses.
What the Actual does Owen know about flying a plane? Really I mean, as a devoted patriot who wants to learn as fast as possible and who already knows how to fly various fighter jets. Give them the old planes, and stock Poland up with our new fighters and ground attack aircraft.
you know victory when you see it? What did you ever win Owen, apart from office under Callaghan?
Amazing Sir
He said revolution
So Mr. Owen, how do you negotiate with a country that is hellbent on your destruction? Medvedev has clearly stated that Ukraine must be wiped off the face of the earth. As far as expecting Russia to respect clear boundaries during negotiations, they didn't respect the terms of the Budapest Memorandum, so what would change?
As Ukraine said Russia needs to be whipped out if the face of the earth, far before war started.
No negotiations now, Russia has been lied to ( as have you ) by the west too many times
So you think those agreements were obligating only to Russia? Orchestrating coup in UKR, arming ne0-n@zis and instructing them to perforrm genocid over Russian MAJORITY by actual minority... That is not breaking of agreements, according to you???
First, dear Lord Owen, were the 200+ Polish tanks which were used in the Kharkiv offensive. The idea with our Migs - right on!
😮
please elaborate. my regrets your comment is unclear.
ps: polish migs to ukr and uk to ask poles if raf base(s) welcome in poland.
skąd niby 200 polskich czołgów?
David Owen is a great loss to politics. For a Labour man, he talks a lot of sense.
Would have made a Good Conservative as well
Russia seems to be bringing huge numbers of 155mm shells from old Soviet arsenals deep in the Urals while Britain has one small BAE factory making a few shells and our stores are empty. The Ukrainians fire our weekly supply in a couple of hours. And nobody talks about replacing worn out barrels at all. I expect huge casualties before Autumn.
David Owen - A disciple of Neville Chamberlain.
Good one!
Click bait headline he openly says appeasement will not work, and to arm Ukraine tot he teeth.
Good analogy!!
I am also an old man like Owen....but....I have not gone soft in the head yet....as I have firmly decided against soft serve..
The headline is a little misleading. I was ready to angrily quote "peace for our time" but came away seeing that is not what Lord Owen is advocating. I understand him to mean that the Russian government will still be intact even after losing Ukraine, and in that sense will not be beaten.
I would only add that sending in the SAS to nab Putin is a good idea. You needn't trouble yourselves with bringing him to the Hague. Just put him under room arrest on the seventh floor of some hospital.
Chamberlain 2.0
Always said Nato should have went in strong from the beginning this as soon as Russia went in heavy handed .. Nato should have been at the ready to meet like for like or bettered what Russia had and this with better planes above on side for Ukraine ...and better tanks as then war would have been
done and dusted by now .
Quick edit - But all this dithering by Scholz is not good enough a coward seems as well as some others who are not fit to be within Nato as a leader of men at all . No country should have to go through what Ukraine still is going through and that country Russia allowed to bully their way in and take control as all countries in Nato should be at least handing out to Ukraine whats needed to conquer evil .
Type in ''Colonel Douglas MacGregor Ukrainian annihilation "... See what a man with relevant experience is saying about the situation, instead of listening to this clown....
@@resistdisinformation9931 ooh you big pessimist you 👍
If you didn't want an invasion you should have implemented the Minsk agreement instead of just using the time to arm Ukraine.
Why does he ignore Nato expansion v. the promises not to expand past E germany, why does he ignore signing the Minsk Accords as a ruse to provide time to arm and train Ukrainians v. Russia? Seems very selective in deciding the equitable interests on either side. I do not trust this aged man, who is not wise despite his age.
What a joke
Somebody never learned their history
That's not what this is about, this about the 'Save Putin Campaign'.