Great job. As soon as you said "styrene" I knew what the results were going to be. We don't have to be extreme tree hugging hippies, but we can do things better and think about our environment when we do things.
I think it is important to point out that the sample BB was 90+ percent "polystyrene"!!!!! Polystyrene is a NON BIODEGRADEABLE!! Polystyrene, is a non-biodegradable substance that can cause environmental problems when it becomes litter. For instance, styrene, a neurotoxin at high doses, can leach out of polystyrene materials when temperatures climb.
This was a well composed report. I've been watching the development, and I appreciate you putting the information out there. I feel deceived, and regret having purchased HPA for so long. The lab results are simply to conclusive to ignore. Thank you airsoft Atlanta, and thank you Airsoftology for your contribution to the sport.
I'd like to see the airsoft industry create and adopt a set of standards for BB's, RIFs, accessories and parts. An approved seal of quality, clearly visible on the packaging and marketing material will add value to the product, and give purchasers a little bit of comfort about their buying decisions. Not only the peace of mind for knowing that you have actually bought a biodegradeable BB, but even knowing that a spare part will actually fit, and that a product will be delivered to a minimum standard of quality.
No way thatd happen. Even in the real world that doesnt happen as cleanly as youv described it. The airsoft community is to decided and diverse sadly. Alot more opinions then conversations :/ I'd love to hear any suggestions for a plan you have though. The uk has the whole ukara set up and it runs well for them but sense the uk is so small it's hard to compare it to say the usa or other bits of Europe.
I think this is a pretty niche industry, there are not so many firms and businesses in it. The good ones who have nothing to fear, would be able to distinguish themselves from the shoddy manufacturers. So it doesn’t even have to encompass an entire industry. Many professional organizations in industry, and are for the most part made up from volunteers from the industry itself. You could create a charter, defining qualifications for the staff of the Airsoft Standards Charter who would define minimum quality standards.
And this is why several outdoor fields have banned the use of HPA BBs in last few weeks... Through the mockery of much of the community, they played it safe to not contaminate the environment.
Personally I would like to see a 3 year test, if they fully biodegrade on 3 years I would happily use them, now they might lose the "Biodegradable" sales claim, but the bottom line is that they would be better for the environment than the Biodegradable bbs we already use, sorry for the Necro comment
@@cnppreactorno.4965 that would qualify them as compostable if they degrade in 10 years or less. Polystyrene isn't known to really degrade at all though
If you pause on the table from the Elite Force lab report at 3:44, you see that they do degrade fully in 126 days. However, there is no word on if that is purely physical degradation into so-called microplastics, or if it is oxygen catalyzed depolymerization on the molecular level. There's a difference, and I'd love to see some more info on that from Elite Force if they'd share it.
As a german my neck hairs begin to curl when you say TÜV Rheinland :D No Blame on you. It´s not your first language. By the way TÜV stands for Technischer Überwachungs Verein (Association for Technical Inspection) And of course the boilder who exploded was standing in a brewery :D
Yeah, I have ZERO German Language skills. I only lay claim to English (some of the time) and Mandarin (When i need to order food). Sorry for the company name pronunciation slaughter...
MSDS are no longer used. The US has been behind. We are now using the Global Harmonized System and Safety Data Sheets. SDS ARE REQUIRED for materials manufactured and transported in the US (generally for items that meet the OSHA definition of hazardous and are "know to be present in the workplace in such a manner that employees may be exposed under normal conditions of use or in a foreseeable emergency"
Very true, Elite Force provided their SDS as well, but since HPA published their MSDS, I wanted to include the same data that was given to me or publicly available for both parties, that way we are comparing apples to apples.
All the way from Portugal thanks for the video and the facts thrown in it, sure is long but to those who Cares a bit about the footprint that we leave in the Woods its worth it. In 1st part I get super curious about who's the 3rd company because I don't like the footprint that plastic BBS can leave so I've been using bio BBS since 4 years now (lots and lots of brands)and don't know that 3 material, always going to pla because it's better than oxo in long-term, I wanna know more about it and if it's better than pla I'll do whats needed to get them on portuguese market but based on the facts shown here... Thankfully HPA ain't available here Once again thanks for your content and keep up the awesome work you do for airsoft with the info that ain't easily available to the regular player Big up from Portugal
Hey Jonathan, I was wondering why you haven’t made an Airsoft AEG with your background and inside knowledge on the industries. Thanks your Florida Fans !
It is a fact HPA BBs are not Bio as stated on their bottles. It is also a fact that HPA does not follow FTC guidelines in qualifying their claims. It is my opinion that given those 2 facts HPA is engaging in deceptive marketing practices and misrepresenting their product as being Bio when they are only 36% at best
Freedom Stuff I watched the podcast last night and being blunt Dan was outright lying Both those facts I listed are true and easily verifiable on the FTC website. Guidelines state all qualifications should be made clear prominent and in close proximity to the claim. Dan Fails 2/3 of these parts. If you would like me to provide specific subsections I will but I can assure you that I am not incorrect on those facts
Freedom Stuff please elaborate? If you want I can go through quote dans statements and then link very specific FTC policy that makes him a liar. But what specifically are you saying I’m wrong about I’m glad to provide VERY exact examples (or is it your gonna call me a liar without actually elaborating or providing examples/ facts) Bc if that’s the case I can’t argue with your “feels”....
Jonathan, OSHA requires all manufacturers to utilize Safety Data Sheets (SDS) in place of the older format Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) as of Dec 01 2015. SDS’s are an international format that has certain required information including composition. More information in the link... www.safetyservicescompany.com/topic/osha/msds-vs-sds/
Great video but one question I have what is the time frame of these test as compared to ur time frame of your video meaning how old are the test, how often do they test, have they since changed there processing procedure after these test have been done and how current are each test?
Thanks for the info didn’t think of that now to find out if they have changed there procedures that would change the outcome of the next time as we know company’s are always changing things to be complient
@@HillbillyAirsoftUSA this is very true. Perhaps by the various companies coming forward with their lab test results they can address any changes that need to be made to ensure biodegradable standards are adequately met.
I hope you guys are going to stop carrying them. The last 2 bottles i bought from you nearly destroyed my BRAND NEW We tech G3A3. i used to have great faith in HPA bbs at one point, but they have gotten more expensive than other brands equal or better in quality.
@@Airsoftatlantatv good hear that you guys have a conscience!! AA has mostly been my go to on the east coast for consumable supplies. See my other post on the root of this video comments section for what I experienced with these BBS.
Nathaniel Arvin I recommend you watch the ASAP podcast, (Another Serious Airsoft Podcast) for the truth on this story. This was an organized hit on HPA and this certainly is not the whole story.
@@NautilusWolf it funny how I'm the only post you replied to. And I do my own research as well but Jonathan has given accurate information for as long as I have been following him
Glad to see Airsoft Atlanta was on top of this. I'm from Atlanta and play at Power Ops and have had a front row seat to all of this and its nice to finally know the truth. Thank you
@@OwenSkarpness Really? I had my first paintball experience there when I saw guys playing Airsoft, that's what got me interested in the sport...sad to hear that they've sold the property and are about to close...
@@VigilantAnarchism agreed. Actually that's where I first played, myself. It's turning into an apartment complex next year. It'll be missed by many, that's for sure
Despite not being American, or based in America this was still a very informative and interesting video to watch! It's a shame though to see companies mud slinging at one another and even more of a shame to see some acting pretty shady. Im still not sure why hpa would want to hide the information about who did the lab tests, unless of course they did them their selves and didn't have it done at a certified lab! Keep up the excellent investigation work, it's really awesome to see what you can find :)
@@Aless6996 I understand not disclosing the formula, but the independent lab tests can be shared and if there is any mention of the formula, that part can be redacted. I just find it a bit dubious they're not being anywhere as open as other manufacturers, but I understand that they want to keep the IP protected :)
@@EnglishKiwi That was like a week ago, what I meant is that they used that as an excuse for not coming out clean about their claims about biodegradability, which it makes their behavior about the subject worse, IMO
Thank you for putting this video together. The airsoft community needed some clarifications and transparency with all of the accusations and misinformation being spread around. I'll make sure to share this video with my fellow airsofters!
If you are watching this now, I suggest you search for "Airsoftology vs. HPA BB's- Airsoft livestream" on here... you'll get a lot more information from both sides and maybe draw a more fair conclusion from all data available. It is too much to state here but that video is going to break down the real facts without bias. - In short, this video is pretty slanderous and downright gets some things wrong (such as claiming dan owns the manufacturing) Given my small bias I just want to say I've talked to Dan many times in person through local airsofting and I've got to be honest he's a great guy from what I know. Also bio BBs, with a qualifying statement, do not need to bio degrade in a year. This dude is talking straight out of his *ss. HPA bbs are in fact complient with federal law and there is literal proof
Just for reference, enhanced biodegradable had a different definition than biodegradable. Enhanced biodegradable is defined as a product that 100% degrades over time even if it’s longer than a year
It’s frustrating that there’s no repercussions for companies like HPA lying about their environmental claims when a company lies about an environmental claim they should be shut down completely until they can legitimately prove the environmental impact of their products
As someone who lives in Taiwan, where are the best shops and fields in Taipei? I’ve recently moved there and am itching to get back out on the field to sling BBs.
I am not sure if HPA changed their website since all of this has surfaced, but they now say that their BBs will degrade up to 36% in the right environment. Also, they don’t go by the FTC guidelines, this what they claim... produced to conform to the biodegradable process approved by the USA Department of Natural Resources, WA.
They do not get to choose whether or not they go by FTC guidelines. Any company making a "green" claim like Bio MUST be FTC compliant. FTC states that Any qualification to their claim (the 36%) must be made "Clearly and Prominently" I would argue a spot on their website Is not at all Prominent or compliant.
I've always been frustrated how brands label PLA plastic as being biodegradable, which it isn't. It's compostable, at a composting facility or landfill, aka not in the woods. I thought HPAirsoft was different, and I sided with them vehemently. As evident by Airsoft Atlanta's lab test however, seems like they're just another brand of liars.
So long story short in the case of hpa vs elite force. All bbs must degrade in one year. Hpa: not fully in one year. Up to 30% Elite force: dose So if you want actual bio bbs elite force is better then HPA. Based on this results. HPA
@Freedom Stuff finished the podcast, and based on what was explained in it it really is difficult for me to come to a solid conclusion about the whole HPA vs Elite Force thing. I think I'll reach out to HPA to see for myself the proof that they have that John did receive replies from them when he asked for info. It does seem to me like HPA may be making the most believable claims about biodegradability compared to other brands. I really would like to see a reputable third party lab run tests on the HPA and EF bbs to provide us with a more information. Would have been nice if HPA stated who performed the testing on their bbs, as it seems like their results are based on their own internal testing which is understandably vulnerable to bias.
Thanks Jonathan. Well presented, appreciate the effort. I know it took a fair amount of doing to gather all this info. I work with a LOT of plastics and when the polystyrene info dropped I was able to do a bit of research. There are products available that can allow polystyrene to degrade in the environment (without them it will last for hundreds of years). I asked HPA about this and was immediately banned from their Instagram. You see, polystyrene is what styrofoam is made of and we all know how long that lasts. In order to get it to breakdown, additives must be used... enhancements if you will. This then breaks down into microplastics. And this my friends is why they have been so secretive. They knew exactly how this was going to play out. Will I continue to use their BBs? Sure will. They shoot great and don't foul any of my guns. I see no reason to change. I also use Elite Force. They're great too. I'm really not married to either one. Afterall, we are all shooting pounds of plastic everywhere when you think about it. All most of us wanted was a straight answer. Was it really that difficult?
Maybe I wasn't paying close enough attention, but it seems as if HPA is both the manufacturer of the material *and* the BBs from the MSDS supplied. Who does that? I work for a supplier of automotive plastic components, and we purchase all of our raw material. Manufacturing plastic is a petrochemical process far beyond the scope of most molding companies, even big ones. My hunch, FWIW, is that HPA is running a scam, and attempting to cover it up.
Nathaniel Arvin I recommend you watch the ASAP podcast, (Another Serious Airsoft Podcast) for the truth on this story. This was an organized hit on HPA and this certainly is not the whole story.
Ok, so that's the law for advertising, but if it breaks down in under 10 years in a field that's not the worst thing that could happen. Unless the chemicals pollute the water table or food sources what are we really worried about here? All I care about is 1. Will it break my gun. 2. Is it allowed where I'm playing 3. Is it a high enough weight for the cost to fight wind and be felt and not break my wallet....beyond that as long as it isn't taking a lifetime to breakdown I think we're doing ok.
The most irritating thing about this entire debacle is it really didn't need to become such a big deal to begin with. Drama like this between companies, especially ones like HPA and Elite Force, do nothing but hurt the consumer, have fans take sides of their preferred brand, and end up helping no one. Yes, it's good that we know the composition and that HPA isn't a true bio BB, but it really didn't need to be this hard. We wish both sides the best.
I think now the consumer is more informed on what they are actually buying and Knowing the "Bio" BB they are getting is only 36% Bio. I think thats actually a positive for the community
@@CrisjoseCruz We agree that consumers have a right and deserve to know what they are buying, however we don't think all this drama was necessary in the first place. All that does is tear people down and brings hostility to both sides. We aren't saying any side is right, except that HPA and their marketing is incorrect.
Question of strong curiosity, Seeing that you go to so many different countries, are you multilingual? If so, how many languages and what are they? I feel like being multilingual would be a huge benefit on the field.
Refer to section §260.6 Certifications and seals of approval. And §260.8 Degradable claims. HPA is in violation of both sections. As them make claim to be certified but never name the certificate or the logo of the certification company. And they made unsubstantiated claim on packaging without a qualifier.
damn i just went and checked out the posts on HPAs instagram.. its all fanboys commenting how they love and support HPA except for ehouse asking for results looks like im going to continue running Elite Force and G&G bbs in my guns
@@Pewmaster If you're satisfied with someone not abiding by the US law, something is oddly wrong with that situation...that's just my opinion...I don't personally buy bio bbs because I play at an indoor field, but nonetheless, I don't want to be giving my money to a company that claims their product is bio, but upon further inspection, it's not 100% and on top of that, it's not 100% in line with the law.
Another Serious Airsoft Podcast just had the owner of HPA on and he has basically stated that this video misrepresents the facts, and that no BB will biodegrade in a year. I strongly suggest that you Jonathon and everybody commenting go and watch that podcast before making a decision. The podcast is on facebook on the Another serious airsoft podcast page.
Dan From HPA was being very deceptive in that podcast if not outright lying (I just watched the podcast). All other companies Lab Results comply with FTC def of Bio degradable and ones that do not have qualifying statements clearly on the bottle (unlike HPA). Go look at a GG bottle of BBs you will see it right there
@@matthill1533 1 Dan multiple times states the FTC does not require the "qualifying statement" to be in a certain place. That is a lie. There are clear guidelines the statement should be clear prominent and in close proximity to the claim. AKA on the bottle. 2 He states no other BBs provide Qualifying statements on their bottles. That is a lie...
Bought and paid for by Elite Force. He's sponsored by elite force and was listed as a pro staff until 5 minutes ago when the elite force website shut down. So nothing suspicious...
@@churlishchurch4223 Lol he already cleared up the "misconception" that another viewer presented...give it a rest. I don't see why he'd need to lie to us about anything; especially with regards to whether he's sponsored or not.
A little more thought and care about how this kind of video effects the community would be appreciated. Presenting info without all the facts can lead to panic in a community. Panic leads to sales loss and potentially company's who do actually do well or mean well taking losses and can be ruined. I like what your hopefully good intentions are but more info would have been nice.
Without all the facts? Every piece of information he dropped has a piece of paper backing it up. You can't not present what you have because you're missing that other piece of paper.
@@wesgreen1491 your not wrong. I think some one else mentioned it aswell one here. I want to know are the bbs that break down actually bio or are they simply micro plastics.
Suddenly you're the say-all voice regarding bbs and company to company drama. Who cares really? This is not the average airsofter's concern. This is clearly a one-sided explanation video that's clearly evident. Firstly no one is obligated to reply to you, period. Sorry, but you're kinda not relevant anymore bro. Secondly, this resurfaced beef has been ongoing and was already explained by Crazy NCman explaining how cut throat and slimy the industry is. You guys are bringing the public into this fight for views. Newsflash! WE DONT GIVE A HOOT about any of it. We just want to play airsoft. Stop Fronting Liar
well, you cared enough to watch the video, and make a long comment about it, so id say it does interest people. And considering the amount of accusations and misinformation being spread around, this video was a good thing to post so now everyone has a set groundwork to discuss on.
Kinda not relevant anymore? First time I’ve posted since watching his videos for years? You obviously have subscribed to him along with the other 200k plus subscribers.
"This is not the average airsofter's concern" Just the concern of any airsofter the cares a bit about the planet, and a major concern for any field that gets players to use Bio BB's
It’s funny I haven’t seen any real recent videos from Higgs. It’s all been “from the archives”. You’re implying he is doing this for the views or responses but really he was probably asked to do this video. I’m not even gonna comment about the North Carolina thing. IMHO I thought he was out of the hobby well before Higgs started spamming archive videos.
@@patrickpanyavong8856 he was, but it was regarding the same issue. The crazyncman video was years ago. Search "the truth behind bb wars" and see I'm talking about. This isn't a new thing. These companies are only killing themselves to ruin other's sales. But that's business, right? And of course it was for views to persuade the community. A blind an can see through this passive agressive BS
Great job. As soon as you said "styrene" I knew what the results were going to be. We don't have to be extreme tree hugging hippies, but we can do things better and think about our environment when we do things.
I think it is important to point out that the sample BB was 90+ percent "polystyrene"!!!!! Polystyrene is a NON BIODEGRADEABLE!!
Polystyrene, is a non-biodegradable substance that can cause environmental problems when it becomes litter. For instance, styrene, a neurotoxin at high doses, can leach out of polystyrene materials when temperatures climb.
This was a well composed report. I've been watching the development, and I appreciate you putting the information out there. I feel deceived, and regret having purchased HPA for so long. The lab results are simply to conclusive to ignore. Thank you airsoft Atlanta, and thank you Airsoftology for your contribution to the sport.
I'd like to see the airsoft industry create and adopt a set of standards for BB's, RIFs, accessories and parts. An approved seal of quality, clearly visible on the packaging and marketing material will add value to the product, and give purchasers a little bit of comfort about their buying decisions. Not only the peace of mind for knowing that you have actually bought a biodegradeable BB, but even knowing that a spare part will actually fit, and that a product will be delivered to a minimum standard of quality.
No way thatd happen. Even in the real world that doesnt happen as cleanly as youv described it. The airsoft community is to decided and diverse sadly. Alot more opinions then conversations :/ I'd love to hear any suggestions for a plan you have though. The uk has the whole ukara set up and it runs well for them but sense the uk is so small it's hard to compare it to say the usa or other bits of Europe.
I think this is a pretty niche industry, there are not so many firms and businesses in it. The good ones who have nothing to fear, would be able to distinguish themselves from the shoddy manufacturers. So it doesn’t even have to encompass an entire industry. Many professional organizations in industry, and are for the most part made up from volunteers from the industry itself. You could create a charter, defining qualifications for the staff of the Airsoft Standards Charter who would define minimum quality standards.
Maybe but humans are humans as soon as you create a company someone's there to make a buck and will do anything to get that buck. Money ruins it :/
@@QU1KS1LVAR lots of companies but they all buy from a few manufactures
And this is why several outdoor fields have banned the use of HPA BBs in last few weeks... Through the mockery of much of the community, they played it safe to not contaminate the environment.
That's a really cool and honest with thing to do.
Personally I would like to see a 3 year test, if they fully biodegrade on 3 years I would happily use them, now they might lose the "Biodegradable" sales claim, but the bottom line is that they would be better for the environment than the Biodegradable bbs we already use, sorry for the Necro comment
@@cnppreactorno.4965 that would qualify them as compostable if they degrade in 10 years or less. Polystyrene isn't known to really degrade at all though
With an Intro like that... Ya know its about to get real right here
Do any of the other companies meet the standard of complete degradation within one year?
If you pause on the table from the Elite Force lab report at 3:44, you see that they do degrade fully in 126 days. However, there is no word on if that is purely physical degradation into so-called microplastics, or if it is oxygen catalyzed depolymerization on the molecular level. There's a difference, and I'd love to see some more info on that from Elite Force if they'd share it.
I want bbs to dissolve in minutes...
@@kenba8176 that’s impossible
As a german my neck hairs begin to curl when you say TÜV Rheinland :D No Blame on you. It´s not your first language. By the way TÜV stands for Technischer Überwachungs Verein (Association for Technical Inspection) And of course the boilder who exploded was standing in a brewery :D
Yeah, I have ZERO German Language skills. I only lay claim to English (some of the time) and Mandarin (When i need to order food). Sorry for the company name pronunciation slaughter...
You’re so German so much so that your yt pic is a volks
@@kinangeagle133 Thats my first car :D Buyed with 16 :D
MSDS are no longer used. The US has been behind. We are now using the Global Harmonized System and Safety Data Sheets. SDS ARE REQUIRED for materials manufactured and transported in the US (generally for items that meet the OSHA definition of hazardous and are "know to be present in the workplace in such a manner that employees may be exposed under normal conditions of use or in a foreseeable emergency"
Very true, Elite Force provided their SDS as well, but since HPA published their MSDS, I wanted to include the same data that was given to me or publicly available for both parties, that way we are comparing apples to apples.
How long should it take a bb to degrade if someone got shot in the face and it's still in his upper lip. Asking for a friend.
It's truly enhanced, so it should take 900 years
Longer than it would take to get it removed.
Unless he is keeping it there for some kind of bragging right?
All the way from Portugal thanks for the video and the facts thrown in it, sure is long but to those who Cares a bit about the footprint that we leave in the Woods its worth it.
In 1st part I get super curious about who's the 3rd company because I don't like the footprint that plastic BBS can leave so I've been using bio BBS since 4 years now (lots and lots of brands)and don't know that 3 material, always going to pla because it's better than oxo in long-term, I wanna know more about it and if it's better than pla I'll do whats needed to get them on portuguese market but based on the facts shown here... Thankfully HPA ain't available here
Once again thanks for your content and keep up the awesome work you do for airsoft with the info that ain't easily available to the regular player
Big up from Portugal
Overall amazingly presented video. I'd like to see a see more if these type of videos in the future!
Please review the Specna Arms Core and Edge line. I'm looking for a backup/loan gun. I like to know what you think.
Love your videos dude!
hey Jonathan are you gonna do any game play videos we thirsty for it.
I was eating a chocolate chip cookie... as he said the part about chocolate chip cookies.
I love this format :)
Hey Jonathan,
I was wondering why you haven’t made an Airsoft AEG with your background and inside knowledge on the industries.
Thanks your Florida Fans !
Another Florida guy!
Because making a product that's actually good is really hard
SchaMmyyy if i were him and had his background I would jump on that opportunity.
Airsoftology ssgaeg
Last week tonight - Airsoft edition! Great video J
Can you post the TUV Rheinland report in PDF format? I would like it for the "Oma Police" here in the Bavarian woods.
C'mon i was busy watching an Airsoftology video. Welp now i gotta watch this one
This truly is an interesting and well put together video
Still not as good as my krytac
@@sdhines00 truly
The moment I see Styrene as the material,
Yep, it's a scam.
Definitely not a bio bb
It is a fact HPA BBs are not Bio as stated on their bottles. It is also a fact that HPA does not follow FTC guidelines in qualifying their claims.
It is my opinion that given those 2 facts HPA is engaging in deceptive marketing practices and misrepresenting their product as being Bio when they are only 36% at best
Freedom Stuff I watched the podcast last night and being blunt Dan was outright lying
Both those facts I listed are true and easily verifiable on the FTC website. Guidelines state all qualifications should be made clear prominent and in close proximity to the claim. Dan Fails 2/3 of these parts. If you would like me to provide specific subsections I will but I can assure you that I am not incorrect on those facts
Freedom Stuff please elaborate? If you want I can go through quote dans statements and then link very specific FTC policy that makes him a liar. But what specifically are you saying I’m wrong about I’m glad to provide VERY exact examples (or is it your gonna call me a liar without actually elaborating or providing examples/ facts) Bc if that’s the case I can’t argue with your “feels”....
Jonathan, OSHA requires all manufacturers to utilize Safety Data Sheets (SDS) in place of the older format Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) as of Dec 01 2015. SDS’s are an international format that has certain required information including composition. More information in the link...
www.safetyservicescompany.com/topic/osha/msds-vs-sds/
Great video but one question I have what is the time frame of these test as compared to ur time frame of your video meaning how old are the test, how often do they test, have they since changed there processing procedure after these test have been done and how current are each test?
If you pause on the test results you can see the date of tests. They all look very recent.
Thanks for the info didn’t think of that now to find out if they have changed there procedures that would change the outcome of the next time as we know company’s are always changing things to be complient
@@HillbillyAirsoftUSA this is very true. Perhaps by the various companies coming forward with their lab test results they can address any changes that need to be made to ensure biodegradable standards are adequately met.
Do you know what’s going on with elite force’s webpage? It’s down since last nite.
Shawn Meredith thanks for sharing, I thought I was having issues with my phone after updating it.
Great video! You can even say it's "TRULY ENHANCED"
lol
I hope you guys are going to stop carrying them. The last 2 bottles i bought from you nearly destroyed my BRAND NEW We tech G3A3. i used to have great faith in HPA bbs at one point, but they have gotten more expensive than other brands equal or better in quality.
@@ghostwalkerairsofttech1947 Yes, we dropped the entire brand due to many reasons.
@@Airsoftatlantatv good hear that you guys have a conscience!! AA has mostly been my go to on the east coast for consumable supplies. See my other post on the root of this video comments section for what I experienced with these BBS.
Yeah there's a lot of people on Facebook that owe y'all and a certain field a serious apology
Great video 👍🏻
thank you for doing this vid
what are the most important things to do when you start an airsoft field?
brayden walker have a lot of money
brayden walker get good insurance plans
Why dont you do hardly any Game play vidios?
Thank you for all the Information
Nathaniel Arvin I recommend you watch the ASAP podcast, (Another Serious Airsoft Podcast) for the truth on this story. This was an organized hit on HPA and this certainly is not the whole story.
@@NautilusWolf it funny how I'm the only post you replied to. And I do my own research as well but Jonathan has given accurate information for as long as I have been following him
Glad to see Airsoft Atlanta was on top of this. I'm from Atlanta and play at Power Ops and have had a front row seat to all of this and its nice to finally know the truth. Thank you
Is that place still going out of business? I played there in May when I was down visiting some friends.
@@k3n0bi28 Power Ops will only be open for about another month, sadly. They recently sold the property.
@@OwenSkarpness Really? I had my first paintball experience there when I saw guys playing Airsoft, that's what got me interested in the sport...sad to hear that they've sold the property and are about to close...
@@VigilantAnarchism agreed. Actually that's where I first played, myself. It's turning into an apartment complex next year. It'll be missed by many, that's for sure
Despite not being American, or based in America this was still a very informative and interesting video to watch! It's a shame though to see companies mud slinging at one another and even more of a shame to see some acting pretty shady. Im still not sure why hpa would want to hide the information about who did the lab tests, unless of course they did them their selves and didn't have it done at a certified lab!
Keep up the excellent investigation work, it's really awesome to see what you can find :)
I saw they said on Instagram that they don't disclose info because their competitors would copy their formula.
@@Aless6996 I understand not disclosing the formula, but the independent lab tests can be shared and if there is any mention of the formula, that part can be redacted. I just find it a bit dubious they're not being anywhere as open as other manufacturers, but I understand that they want to keep the IP protected :)
@@EnglishKiwi That was like a week ago, what I meant is that they used that as an excuse for not coming out clean about their claims about biodegradability, which it makes their behavior about the subject worse, IMO
@@Aless6996 yeah I completely agree! You don't have to give away all of you trade secrets to be able to back up your claims with experimental proof!
Thank you for putting this video together. The airsoft community needed some clarifications and transparency with all of the accusations and misinformation being spread around. I'll make sure to share this video with my fellow airsofters!
Truth bomb has been dropped, and the fallout is no joke.
If you are watching this now, I suggest you search for "Airsoftology vs. HPA BB's- Airsoft livestream" on here... you'll get a lot more information from both sides and maybe draw a more fair conclusion from all data available. It is too much to state here but that video is going to break down the real facts without bias. - In short, this video is pretty slanderous and downright gets some things wrong (such as claiming dan owns the manufacturing)
Given my small bias I just want to say I've talked to Dan many times in person through local airsofting and I've got to be honest he's a great guy from what I know.
Also bio BBs, with a qualifying statement, do not need to bio degrade in a year. This dude is talking straight out of his *ss.
HPA bbs are in fact complient with federal law and there is literal proof
Thank you for putting this info out there. Damage control is all he’s got on his mind now
A good video. Thank you.
How should i go about getting my local field to host night games?
Been waiting for this 🤣
Just for reference, enhanced biodegradable had a different definition than biodegradable. Enhanced biodegradable is defined as a product that 100% degrades over time even if it’s longer than a year
Fascinating, enlightening, sobering. Great video, Jonathan.
Sounds like someone is up a "certain creek" without a certain item lol
When will you develope or co-develope an AEG?
It’s frustrating that there’s no repercussions for companies like HPA lying about their environmental claims when a company lies about an environmental claim they should be shut down completely until they can legitimately prove the environmental impact of their products
I do love a inquisition, popcorn is on hand
Airsoft Atlanta still hasn't posted anything from the tests they had done
Great Video
Is my EMG Falkor AR-15 RECCE Training Weapon M4 Airsoft AEG Rifle (Color: Blackout) Consider a DMR rifle
Good information to have. Thanks
In my country and I think in more european countries you are not allowed to play with plastic BB's, you have to use Bio-gradable BB's...
Is the Krytac SPR a DMR with a few upgrades and if I can use it in a Milsim West Game?
I believe they go by replica caliber. Supposed to be like 7.62 or bigger. Go on there Facebook or something to find the rules.(30pages)
This video was very well presented. Thanks for the work put into this.
If only the entire situation was handled a bit better... Drama sucks.
What do you think of players fixing their own guns vs paying someone
Good question 👌
Why pay someone to work on your gun? It’s not a car, there isn’t that much to them. Just buy the parts an install them yourself
@@chongusdongus8693 that's what I do but I'm curious what Jonathan will say bc some people wreak their guns
If you can work on your own build, It builds a sentimental valvue to the build because of what you put into it and the time you spent making it work.
@@feedgreedboi8780 Who cares it's their gun they can wreck it if they want. That's not a video topic.
As someone who lives in Taiwan, where are the best shops and fields in Taipei? I’ve recently moved there and am itching to get back out on the field to sling BBs.
How come when I ask basic questions to EF the block me and insult me? How do you feel about companies like Elite force degrading customers?
Yeah, I stopped buying their bbs. They kept exploding when I shot stuff.
If they do that, i would not have any of their products.
Have you ever heard of dbrand?
Caleb Jaimes media I have not
@@mrPartyboy128 see what they tell their customers on twitter
G&G BB’s on the packet Said that it broken down in 99 Days. Is mich better then 365 Days 😂
I made the test by one year and the bb still there
Styrene is highly toxic... I'm waiting for properly biodegradable bbs
I am not sure if HPA changed their website since all of this has surfaced, but they now say that their BBs will degrade up to 36% in the right environment. Also, they don’t go by the FTC guidelines, this what they claim...
produced to conform to the biodegradable process approved by the USA Department of Natural Resources, WA.
They do not get to choose whether or not they go by FTC guidelines. Any company making a "green" claim like Bio MUST be FTC compliant. FTC states that Any qualification to their claim (the 36%) must be made "Clearly and Prominently" I would argue a spot on their website Is not at all Prominent or compliant.
Also any claim of certification must be provided in a reasonable time when asked for.
I've always been frustrated how brands label PLA plastic as being biodegradable, which it isn't. It's compostable, at a composting facility or landfill, aka not in the woods.
I thought HPAirsoft was different, and I sided with them vehemently. As evident by Airsoft Atlanta's lab test however, seems like they're just another brand of liars.
Hey Jonathan,
What’s your opinion on the usage of Mech Suits, such as the Rasputin, in airsoft?
Good video
GOOD RESEARCH M8
So long story short in the case of hpa vs elite force. All bbs must degrade in one year.
Hpa: not fully in one year. Up to 30%
Elite force: dose
So if you want actual bio bbs elite force is better then HPA. Based on this results.
HPA
You put hpa>elite force
I believe it Should be elite force>hpa in terms of biodegradability
@@quinndle 🤦♂️ yes you are correct
I like how EF gained from this despite being the first scrutinized. Time to buy BLS/EMG though still.
@Freedom Stuff finished the podcast, and based on what was explained in it it really is difficult for me to come to a solid conclusion about the whole HPA vs Elite Force thing. I think I'll reach out to HPA to see for myself the proof that they have that John did receive replies from them when he asked for info. It does seem to me like HPA may be making the most believable claims about biodegradability compared to other brands. I really would like to see a reputable third party lab run tests on the HPA and EF bbs to provide us with a more information. Would have been nice if HPA stated who performed the testing on their bbs, as it seems like their results are based on their own internal testing which is understandably vulnerable to bias.
we don't need 365 day's. We need to know that they break down to Organics. CO2 water, ect.
So my question is what babies are biodegradable? And who makes then what companies sell them?
Thanks Jonathan. Well presented, appreciate the effort. I know it took a fair amount of doing to gather all this info.
I work with a LOT of plastics and when the polystyrene info dropped I was able to do a bit of research. There are products available that can allow polystyrene to degrade in the environment (without them it will last for hundreds of years). I asked HPA about this and was immediately banned from their Instagram. You see, polystyrene is what styrofoam is made of and we all know how long that lasts. In order to get it to breakdown, additives must be used... enhancements if you will. This then breaks down into microplastics. And this my friends is why they have been so secretive. They knew exactly how this was going to play out.
Will I continue to use their BBs? Sure will. They shoot great and don't foul any of my guns. I see no reason to change. I also use Elite Force. They're great too. I'm really not married to either one. Afterall, we are all shooting pounds of plastic everywhere when you think about it.
All most of us wanted was a straight answer. Was it really that difficult?
Maybe I wasn't paying close enough attention, but it seems as if HPA is both the manufacturer of the material *and* the BBs from the MSDS supplied. Who does that? I work for a supplier of automotive plastic components, and we purchase all of our raw material. Manufacturing plastic is a petrochemical process far beyond the scope of most molding companies, even big ones.
My hunch, FWIW, is that HPA is running a scam, and attempting to cover it up.
Nathaniel Arvin I recommend you watch the ASAP podcast, (Another Serious Airsoft Podcast) for the truth on this story. This was an organized hit on HPA and this certainly is not the whole story.
@@NautilusWolf ... Which episode? Link?
ATSM should be asked to make a standard for 5 years degradable/compostable. we don't care if it takes long as long as it happens
Ok, so that's the law for advertising, but if it breaks down in under 10 years in a field that's not the worst thing that could happen. Unless the chemicals pollute the water table or food sources what are we really worried about here? All I care about is 1. Will it break my gun. 2. Is it allowed where I'm playing 3. Is it a high enough weight for the cost to fight wind and be felt and not break my wallet....beyond that as long as it isn't taking a lifetime to breakdown I think we're doing ok.
I needed this laugh. Thank you.
The most irritating thing about this entire debacle is it really didn't need to become such a big deal to begin with. Drama like this between companies, especially ones like HPA and Elite Force, do nothing but hurt the consumer, have fans take sides of their preferred brand, and end up helping no one. Yes, it's good that we know the composition and that HPA isn't a true bio BB, but it really didn't need to be this hard. We wish both sides the best.
I think now the consumer is more informed on what they are actually buying and Knowing the "Bio" BB they are getting is only 36% Bio. I think thats actually a positive for the community
@@CrisjoseCruz We agree that consumers have a right and deserve to know what they are buying, however we don't think all this drama was necessary in the first place. All that does is tear people down and brings hostility to both sides. We aren't saying any side is right, except that HPA and their marketing is incorrect.
Hello there
General kenobi
You are a bold one
Question of strong curiosity,
Seeing that you go to so many different countries, are you multilingual? If so, how many languages and what are they?
I feel like being multilingual would be a huge benefit on the field.
Airsoft Atlanta handled the situation really poorly. Their PR was a disaster.
How so? I am not up to date on what they did.
Refer to section §260.6 Certifications and seals of approval. And §260.8 Degradable claims. HPA is in violation of both sections. As them make claim to be certified but never name the certificate or the logo of the certification company. And they made unsubstantiated claim on packaging without a qualifier.
Yikes.....
Okay so what should I run in my vfc saber 😂😂
damn i just went and checked out the posts on HPAs instagram.. its all fanboys commenting how they love and support HPA except for ehouse asking for results
looks like im going to continue running Elite Force and G&G bbs in my guns
Fan boys or satisfied customers? Cause this satisfied customer stands behind the bb brand
@@Pewmaster imo fanboys.
@@Pewmaster If you're satisfied with someone not abiding by the US law, something is oddly wrong with that situation...that's just my opinion...I don't personally buy bio bbs because I play at an indoor field, but nonetheless, I don't want to be giving my money to a company that claims their product is bio, but upon further inspection, it's not 100% and on top of that, it's not 100% in line with the law.
If they still stand behind the company after buying bio bbs that are not really bio bbs they're fanboys
Damn hip-pie BBS. Lol
Another Serious Airsoft Podcast just had the owner of HPA on and he has basically stated that this video misrepresents the facts, and that no BB will biodegrade in a year. I strongly suggest that you Jonathon and everybody commenting go and watch that podcast before making a decision. The podcast is on facebook on the Another serious airsoft podcast page.
Dan From HPA was being very deceptive in that podcast if not outright lying (I just watched the podcast). All other companies Lab Results comply with FTC def of Bio degradable and ones that do not have qualifying statements clearly on the bottle (unlike HPA). Go look at a GG bottle of BBs you will see it right there
@@CrisjoseCruz how exactly was he being deceptive??
@@matthill1533 1 Dan multiple times states the FTC does not require the "qualifying statement" to be in a certain place. That is a lie. There are clear guidelines the statement should be clear prominent and in close proximity to the claim. AKA on the bottle.
2 He states no other BBs provide Qualifying statements on their bottles. That is a lie...
Finally :)
I am looking to get into airsoft and I was wondering if the condor mopc is a decent plate carrier? Thanks.
Bought and paid for by Elite Force. He's sponsored by elite force and was listed as a pro staff until 5 minutes ago when the elite force website shut down. So nothing suspicious...
Um look at the responses on the twelfth comment down below by freedom stuff before you make your accusations about the channel
It amuses me that there's a thinking human being that took 15 seconds to write this all out unironically. Bless you.
Not the first time elite force paid a youtuber to do this kind of stuff
@@churlishchurch4223 Lol he already cleared up the "misconception" that another viewer presented...give it a rest. I don't see why he'd need to lie to us about anything; especially with regards to whether he's sponsored or not.
The Vigilant I would say because if he admitted it was paid for or he was their sponsored player then people would be less inclined to listen
Off topic kinda question wondering your opinion on the EMG SAI Gry sbr aeg ? And this question is for everyone as well
Wow so HPA is using a rather cheap product !!! And selling for an incredible amount.... wow 😲 that’s ducked up
Hey Jonathan I was wondering does a high let FPS mean better accuracy?
P.S Love the show
A little more thought and care about how this kind of video effects the community would be appreciated. Presenting info without all the facts can lead to panic in a community. Panic leads to sales loss and potentially company's who do actually do well or mean well taking losses and can be ruined. I like what your hopefully good intentions are but more info would have been nice.
Without all the facts? Every piece of information he dropped has a piece of paper backing it up. You can't not present what you have because you're missing that other piece of paper.
@@wesgreen1491 your not wrong. I think some one else mentioned it aswell one here. I want to know are the bbs that break down actually bio or are they simply micro plastics.
"politically correct" Jonathan at his best.... :(
Check out the new youtuber Kraken Airsoft!!!!
Suddenly you're the say-all voice regarding bbs and company to company drama. Who cares really? This is not the average airsofter's concern. This is clearly a one-sided explanation video that's clearly evident. Firstly no one is obligated to reply to you, period. Sorry, but you're kinda not relevant anymore bro. Secondly, this resurfaced beef has been ongoing and was already explained by Crazy NCman explaining how cut throat and slimy the industry is. You guys are bringing the public into this fight for views. Newsflash! WE DONT GIVE A HOOT about any of it. We just want to play airsoft. Stop Fronting Liar
well, you cared enough to watch the video, and make a long comment about it, so id say it does interest people. And considering the amount of accusations and misinformation being spread around, this video was a good thing to post so now everyone has a set groundwork to discuss on.
Kinda not relevant anymore? First time I’ve posted since watching his videos for years? You obviously have subscribed to him along with the other 200k plus subscribers.
"This is not the average airsofter's concern"
Just the concern of any airsofter the cares a bit about the planet, and a major concern for any field that gets players to use Bio BB's
It’s funny I haven’t seen any real recent videos from Higgs. It’s all been “from the archives”. You’re implying he is doing this for the views or responses but really he was probably asked to do this video. I’m not even gonna comment about the North Carolina thing. IMHO I thought he was out of the hobby well before Higgs started spamming archive videos.
@@patrickpanyavong8856 he was, but it was regarding the same issue. The crazyncman video was years ago. Search "the truth behind bb wars" and see I'm talking about. This isn't a new thing. These companies are only killing themselves to ruin other's sales. But that's business, right? And of course it was for views to persuade the community. A blind an can see through this passive agressive BS