This Video nees about a few thousand views more! Nice explanation, I like your style of scraping, not leaving a heavy burr at the end of the stroke. Your german pronouciation of Biax was perfect! I have a Renz powerscraper too, but mine has adjustable stroke.
Thank you Stefan. I enjoy your channel. This type of scraping works for me, but everyone has their own style. Hand scraping is hard work no matter how you do it. CZcams is fascinating because you can learn how other pronounce words. I did study German for 1 year in college. I have probably forgotten most of it by now. There is not much opportunity to practice.
This was incredibly helpful. The entire walkthrough of the different steps, seeing your workflow and everything. Just wow, big thanks for such amazing content.
I've probably watched this vid 10-15 times lol...... Really hard to find a scraping videos that have both, a person that knows what their doing and is interesting to watch. I really hope your still thinking bout possibly doing more scraping vids Wes, maybe even with some of your insight on how you check geometry on dovetails and whatnot. Hope all is well and to see ya soon.
Thank you Wes, you have such an awesomely broad range of talents that is really rare to see in these days of specialization . You always have a down to earth attitude that makes you a favourite with many viewers! Well done . Hey
This is probably one of the best scraping videos I've ever seen. Very much down and dirty, not fancy and mystical like some make scraping out to be. I am going to try this method on my next scraping project. Very well done!
Scraping is not magic. However, it's very much about finding what works for you. All I can do is show you what I have found to work for me. I won't say it's the best way or the right way. It's a starting point.
As a former scraper from 1977 to 1983, I enjoyed watching someone else scraping, and agree with what you say about saving time by switching techniques as things progress. It took me a couple years to learn that, as I progressed in my skills. Old worn out machinery can be many thousandths off, and I was taught by other scrapers to do just what you do! I still have my old tools, Prussian blue, and red lead, and wonder if I can still do it, I used to be as good as you! I also lifted at the end of the short finishing stroke and gave it a left-handed curl, giving straightedges and surface plates a beautiful frosty appearance! Machine tool surfaces got a 12-14 point finish with good oil retention, alignment to other machine members was most important.
I've watched a lot of scraping videos and this must be the best. You have made the process practical as opposed to anal and you don't need to be Richard King or own a $1500 Biax to get a decent level flatness. Thanks from the UK ! BTW I came to your channel after a shoutout from Rainman Ray's Repairs - and he's never seen rust !
Well I was not expecting that, i was looking into scraping and Watch Wes Works comes up. Very helpful and interesting seeing how your Chanel has changed
Thank you so much for your vids. It's great to see how somebody in the trade would do scraping, diagnoses and repair where time is $$. I also appreciate your concise delivery and great tips. I'm a new subscriber and just found your channel through Hobby Machinist. I hope you get time to do the cross slide dove tails on the Chinese lathe as I would love to see how you would approach it.
Thank you for such a well explained way to hand scrap. Watched a few videos on it byt first time I have seen used two colours to pick up the high and low points. From kiwi land.
Helpful vid, saw many valuable points and hints. Thanks a lot. would like to add some comment. Regular radial bearing case could be used to remove rough edges after scraping, instead of stone. To reduce abrasive exposure. Also regarding dovetails, how do you clean them after stoning? To work with hardly accessible surfaces like small dovetail inner parts, it is possible to create small scraper from stone\glass drill bit, spear headed. This "spear head" has almost same quality carbide as special scraper inserts. Despite the price difference, but it's a fact. Scrapers made out of drill bits rather well deal with soft cast iron like that coming from Chinese factories. Their drawback is lesser ability to keep sharpness, but again taking into account the price... Just remove extra metall at the base and flatten carbide insert in desired radius. Best cutting angle is around 110-115 degrees. Though i personally prefer to correct such surfaces in mill using some dedicated tool, like dovetail cutter, to decrease hand scraping amount as much as possible. This is really an action which produces thoughts about finding more heavy intellect means to achieve desired results.
It is AMAZING how such a seemingly primitive technique can yield such precise results and still be in use today. I have seen old metal scraping films, but thought that the technique would have long been superseded by modern micro polishing techniques.
😊 Informartion japanese highend mill producers use this before using a machine. So it may appear primitiv but it works very perfect. Especialy in dovetails a grinding or polishingmachine could only been placed with a lot of effort in place. When a human can bend very easy in position.
Nicely explained Wes, you are absolutely right about the roughing stage needs to be done right before moving on to the semi finishing strokes. I like the fact you talked about both print mediums, I've not used anything other than the oil based one here in the U K, but now I'm used to it I'm happy with it. just wished they made a contrasting colour, so now I might try and mix one up. cheers for the upload, all the best, Mat
😊Information. Japanese take shellac mixed with zinoberrot. It is a sword polishingpowder called "Akato" it is fairly hard. Mixingratio you ask? 95%shellac rest pigment. Apply it wait a few seconds start scraping. Basicly you can take even ink the pigments have to just be fine enough to lay into the pools. Recipe for shellac: - shellacflakes and isopropanol 100g iso 15-20g shellac depending on how thick you like your lacq. Testing will lead to preferences.
10:30 That's a sweet Buttress thread vise. I could see it being handy for scraping since it allows for such quick adjustment and you don't have to worry about cleaning chips out of the nut as often as you would if you used it on a machine. Thanks for the awesome video.
Hi Wes, thought I would pop back and let you know of a trick I just figured for a background colour - I used a sharpie over the surface and then a drop of mineral spirit to dissolve the sharpie mark - smeared it over and then in a minute or two the solvent was evaporated and I could print the regular oil based blue medium I use. Worked a treat and Ive plenty of sharpie colours ! Cheers Mat
You might say, you have to get to the point where your lows become the highs before you move on to finishing. An angle plate is not a bearing surface. Scraping a bearing surface requires small individual scrapes of about .0002-.0003” for oil retention. And, flaking is to be done on the underside contact points. This is what I learned in Richard King’s (Kingway) scraping class.
I never even heard about this process until I watched a video by Lookcreations and just presumed all surface plates, surface tables and precision flat surface tools were done on a machine. The issue now is that I need to have a go at this in some way or another!
I threw out several hundred pounds of that concrete dye a while back. I could have made a 100x lifetime supply of scraping pigment, in all the colors of the rainbow!
Wow whilst surfing through your old videos I came across this one on scraping. No doubt a useful skill to have but it comes with one definite attribute that of patience. I being lacking in that department couldn't be bothered. Metal engineering tolerances are a bit much for me I will stick to wood it is more forgiving. Interesting video and yet another example of your versatility.
..."Chinese angle plate".....well, like Stefan Gotteswinter says...."You're getting a bunch of cast iron parts as a sort of 'kit' to finish.....Excellent finish...!
It's easy to become frustrated with scraping, especially when trying to correct wear. It's a process that can't really be hurried along. Thanks for stopping by!
You made the two you made really look nice natural to actually scrap with. I thought the copper, metal, wood, Delron were made in the 50's or 60's. We watched Stefan's Channel do scrapping at a school in Germany there and then back at his shop channel. You have a really nice setup, we are hopping to scrap one vintage machine we have to do. Thank you for our lesson, lots of practice roughing (proper prep) then finishing (great results) before we ever try this on our small machine. Half ways through the video I learn what you mean about leaning into the tool, hence the large Delron disk at the end of your tool.
Very helpful video Wes, thanks very much for this! :) The visibility of the black spotting compound seems quite good, I think I'll go find some of that mortar color :) One thing I noticed, all the books and videos I've studied about scraping indicate that the individual strokes should be made side-by-side, in rows that are 45 degrees across the part. The claim is that it leads to chatter in a sliding surface if you line the strokes up in "vertical" rows. I don't suppose it matters much during roughing and it looked like you did the side-by-side stroke rows in the finish pass, but just thought I'd mention for whatever it's worth. I love the handmade scrapers, very practical :) Also, it looked like you position the part down just above your knees, is that so you can push the scraper with your hip? Btw, on the Canode, they say to "thin" that with very thin vegetable oil (safflower maybe); using water could explain some of the bad behavior it was exhibiting.
I have heard of others thinning Canode with window cleaner. I have not tried that. Window cleaner is mostly alcohol, so it seems like it would flash off too quickly. Connely advocates the 45 degree rows in his book. I usually line my scraper up at 90 degrees, but the actual scrape marks are not 90 degrees to each other because of the way I lift out when scraping. The same thing happens with the Biax. The longer the stroke, the more you see the effect. The result is that the actual scrape marks are more like 45-60 degrees to each other.
Great video! Nice overview on your scraping. One thing though, the Canode isn't actually water based, it's water soluble. It is very thick and a little sticky, as you say, as well as the other issues, but if you don't dilute it with water it will NEVER rust your work. I leave it on CI for days between scraping sessions. I'll try to find out what the carrier fluid is. If I need to thin it I've been using denatured alcohol. It flashes off quick and no rust issues. Keep up the great videos.
My lathe (South Bend 9) has a wee bit of 'ridging on the last 20% of the Cast Iron Bearing surface chuck side.....they say to hone off any high spots but don't try to stone it down......any advise, which honing device, and what technique? The spindle has a few deposits of CI corresponding to the bearing....ordered a set of EZ-Lap diamond hoaners and have access to another lathe..
Nice job Wes....too bad a guy cannot like on every view!....about the 6th time I watched, and sure I will watch again! Trying to get up to speed a bit, before taking one of Rich's classes, but not sure that my "old" arms will take it. I did pick up a Biax, but am sure it is best to start with the basics ....thanks for the detailed explanation.....off to watch you Biax vid again.
Thanks for posting videos Wes, very good instruction. Both you and Stephen Gotteswinter provide informative instructional vids. I used this knowledge to scrape in a cross-slide on s small chickety-china lathe, worked well. Do you take requests? You do everything relating to machining equipment, manual and NC, cornucopia of knowledge. I have a haas sl30 ( sorry ) , and want to know how do maintenance on the turret. You did a very good turret alignment episode on the slant bed. Curious if haas turrets need to be disassembled and cleaned/lubricated periodically. Thanks Wes J.
I believe that Haas uses compressed air to clamp the turret which is odd. I don't know of any other builder doing that. Other than keeping the curvic coupling clean, there's not much that needs to be done to the turret.
Hello. Thank you for your great video. Would u please tell me how to clean oil based pigment from surface plate. Does it clean by ammonia or wd 40? Best regards. Thank you
Nice vidio I am learning too but Chinese angle plate! Would it worth scraping cause you leave it for a year it would twist distort etc.I don't trust Chinese cause they cast in the cheapest way to get the object look alike. My two cents is you rubbing stone should have hole in the middle and you should stick to figure eight and spend more time on hand lapping(remove sharp point).
What's the purpose of flattening the Plate is it used for specific purposes? These videos are so entertaining and intriguing to me I like these older video! @Watch Wes Work
The plate would typically be used when clamping other parts that are going to be machined (say on a milling machine). Having a flat and square angle plate means anything you clamp to it should be square to the machine bed.
Yes. Ultimately Wes will scrape the adjacent surface, but it will need to be scraped perpendicular to the surface scraped in this video. Getting flat surfaces is one thing, getting flat surfaces precisely perpendicular, or at angles like doevetails square and parallel to each other is where it gets rough! Wes does a great job in this video.
I still haven't quit figured out how you get your marking die to that consistency. Yours looks like a heavy grease and not too sticky. When I mix mine with 30 weight or way oil no matter how thick I mix it eventually slumps to the bottom of the container. If its really think it acts almost like a non newtonian fluid and is very sticky. It seems to work well and sometimes I thin it with denatured alcohol that helps, I'm just curious. I think I have some of that old blueish green x-tra heavy wheel grease, I guess I could try that.
Thank you for such a great video, it answered a lot of my questions missed by others... any chance on some details on your scraper blades and their shapes? it's really hard to find pictures and details on the exact shape and grinds :)
I will try to make more scraping videos in the future. I want to make a video that covers some of the gaps in other videos and a video about alignments. Scraping is a boring and tedious job, so it's difficult to make a scraping video that's actually watchable.
Isn't the plane being inclined in one direction thus changing the 90° angle too much ? I can see this working well for flat surfaces but for angled supports is that ok ?
I think i know the answer scrape one side flat and blue an angle plate and rub it to show wheres touching and you scrape it.from my experience you should scrape individual marks rather then scraping the blue with an uncontrolled method.meaning hit where the blues ate but has to be spaced in between scrape marks and cross the scrape.
I've got a set of big machinist parallels about 3ft long and a lonely 2ft parallel (or maybe vise versa I forget which size I have a set of) and I'm wondering how you decide between having a smooth finish or a scraped finish. I know putting them on a grinding machine is a good "roughing" (relatively speaking) procedure prior to lapping or scraping for overall parallelism, but I'm unsure about the advantages to scrapped verses a smooth surface for the final product. I am aware that the scrapped finish helps distribute a film of oil when it is used for something like machine ways, but given the use of machinist parallels I hope to not see the same sliding motion experienced by the machine ways. Truthfully I don't own any machinery remotely big enough like a big horizontal boring mill or metal planer to make regular use out of the parallels, but I would still like the project of doing some finishing work on them. I'd love your advice before spending lots of time hand scraping them, or even more time lapping them into a surface finish that can be wrung too. Thanks in advance, -Adam
One advantage of a scraped surface is there is no heating to cause the work piece to distort like there is with grinding. Another is that the surface holds oil better, much like cross hatching in a cylinder bore. Not so much an issue with angle plates and straight edges, but very important for machine ways.
Great video. I learned a whole lot here. One question. How do you maintain the perpendicularity of the angle block? 90.000 degrees, means 90.000 degrees, right? Do you do rough in, then measure a whole bunch of times for angle, average the results, adjust the rough in and go again?
I swear I replied to your question, but it seems to be gone now. Scraping for alignment is a whole other subject. The best way is to compare the angle plate to a known master square. If you don't have a known master square, you have to use 2 or 3 angle plates and compare them to each other while scraping and eventually the errors will cancel out. The Moore book "Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy" covers the topic thoroughly. Typically the alignment is set in the rough scraping. You would check periodically while finish scraping to be sure you do not move the surface out of alignment. It's far more tedious than just scraping a surface flat.
Wes, never seen this before, not sure what scrapping is.....i am assuming you are trying to make the surface flat. can you tell me why you are doing this......can a machine do this? surface mill? so confused. but a great video
A surface grinder heats the workpiece causing it to distort. So the process is to grind it as close to perfect as you can, then fine tune the surface with scraping. It also allows the surface to hold oil better. Much like crosshatching in a cylinder bore.
A dial indicator with 10,000 measurements. They attach it to a stand and put both whatever is being scraped and stand on a granite block and get the measurements. I'm not a machinist so I don't know the terminology
This Video nees about a few thousand views more! Nice explanation, I like your style of scraping, not leaving a heavy burr at the end of the stroke.
Your german pronouciation of Biax was perfect! I have a Renz powerscraper too, but mine has adjustable stroke.
Thank you Stefan. I enjoy your channel. This type of scraping works for me, but everyone has their own style. Hand scraping is hard work no matter how you do it.
CZcams is fascinating because you can learn how other pronounce words. I did study German for 1 year in college. I have probably forgotten most of it by now. There is not much opportunity to practice.
Wow! 3000 views. The most popular video I've ever made.
You did a great job covering this subject. I think this is the best scraping video I have seen.
This was incredibly helpful. The entire walkthrough of the different steps, seeing your workflow and everything. Just wow, big thanks for such amazing content.
I've probably watched this vid 10-15 times lol...... Really hard to find a scraping videos that have both, a person that knows what their doing and is interesting to watch. I really hope your still thinking bout possibly doing more scraping vids Wes, maybe even with some of your insight on how you check geometry on dovetails and whatnot. Hope all is well and to see ya soon.
Unfortunately it doesn't appear that way.
Thank you so much for this video. Concrete dye and oil is the simplest mix for layout medium I have seen so far. Thank you again.
Thank you Wes, you have such an awesomely broad range of talents that is really rare to see in these days of specialization . You always have a down to earth attitude that makes you a favourite with many viewers! Well done . Hey
Great video. I learned more watching this 25 minute video than I did attending a "professional" 50 hour Biax scraping class.
Very helpful! Thank you for explaining and showing this process!
This is probably one of the best scraping videos I've ever seen. Very much down and dirty, not fancy and mystical like some make scraping out to be. I am going to try this method on my next scraping project. Very well done!
Scraping is not magic. However, it's very much about finding what works for you. All I can do is show you what I have found to work for me. I won't say it's the best way or the right way. It's a starting point.
You've made rough precision scraping into a combat form!
Love it!
No sense messing around.
As a former scraper from 1977 to 1983, I enjoyed watching someone else scraping, and agree with what you say about saving time by switching techniques as things progress. It took me a couple years to learn that, as I progressed in my skills. Old worn out machinery can be many thousandths off, and I was taught by other scrapers to do just what you do! I still have my old tools, Prussian blue, and red lead, and wonder if I can still do it, I used to be as good as you! I also lifted at the end of the short finishing stroke and gave it a left-handed curl, giving straightedges and surface plates a beautiful frosty appearance! Machine tool surfaces got a 12-14 point finish with good oil retention, alignment to other machine members was most important.
I've watched a lot of scraping videos and this must be the best. You have made the process practical as opposed to anal and you don't need to be Richard King or own a $1500 Biax to get a decent level flatness. Thanks from the UK !
BTW I came to your channel after a shoutout from Rainman Ray's Repairs - and he's never seen rust !
Well I was not expecting that, i was looking into scraping and Watch Wes Works comes up. Very helpful and interesting seeing how your Chanel has changed
Thank you so much for your vids. It's great to see how somebody in the trade would do scraping, diagnoses and repair where time is $$. I also appreciate your concise delivery and great tips. I'm a new subscriber and just found your channel through Hobby Machinist. I hope you get time to do the cross slide dove tails on the Chinese lathe as I would love to see how you would approach it.
Thank you for such a well explained way to hand scrap.
Watched a few videos on it byt first time I have seen used two colours to pick up the high and low points.
From kiwi land.
Helpful vid, saw many valuable points and hints. Thanks a lot.
would like to add some comment.
Regular radial bearing case could be used to remove rough edges after scraping, instead of stone. To reduce abrasive exposure.
Also regarding dovetails, how do you clean them after stoning?
To work with hardly accessible surfaces like small dovetail inner parts, it is possible to create small scraper from stone\glass drill bit, spear headed. This "spear head" has almost same quality carbide as special scraper inserts. Despite the price difference, but it's a fact. Scrapers made out of drill bits rather well deal with soft cast iron like that coming from Chinese factories.
Their drawback is lesser ability to keep sharpness, but again taking into account the price...
Just remove extra metall at the base and flatten carbide insert in desired radius.
Best cutting angle is around 110-115 degrees.
Though i personally prefer to correct such surfaces in mill using some dedicated tool, like dovetail cutter, to decrease hand scraping amount as much as possible.
This is really an action which produces thoughts about finding more heavy intellect means to achieve desired results.
It is AMAZING how such a seemingly primitive technique can yield such precise results and still be in use today. I have seen old metal scraping films, but thought that the technique would have long been superseded by modern micro polishing techniques.
😊 Informartion japanese highend mill producers use this before using a machine. So it may appear primitiv but it works very perfect. Especialy in dovetails a grinding or polishingmachine could only been placed with a lot of effort in place. When a human can bend very easy in position.
Nice work Wes, thanks for sharing the process.
The angle block looks great.
Take care, Ed.
Nicely explained Wes, you are absolutely right about the roughing stage needs to be done right before moving on to the semi finishing strokes. I like the fact you talked about both print mediums, I've not used anything other than the oil based one here in the U K, but now I'm used to it I'm happy with it. just wished they made a contrasting colour, so now I might try and mix one up.
cheers for the upload, all the best, Mat
Thank you. I know some guys use the regular blue and just make up some red for contrast. It works well.
😊Information. Japanese take shellac mixed with zinoberrot. It is a sword polishingpowder called "Akato" it is fairly hard.
Mixingratio you ask?
95%shellac rest pigment.
Apply it wait a few seconds start scraping.
Basicly you can take even ink the pigments have to just be fine enough to lay into the pools.
Recipe for shellac:
- shellacflakes and isopropanol
100g iso 15-20g shellac depending on how thick you like your lacq. Testing will lead to preferences.
10:30 That's a sweet Buttress thread vise. I could see it being handy for scraping since it allows for such quick adjustment and you don't have to worry about cleaning chips out of the nut as often as you would if you used it on a machine. Thanks for the awesome video.
Buttress? More like buttrest
Yellow makes a nice contrast to red or blue. Subscribed!
Hi Wes, thought I would pop back and let you know of a trick I just figured for a background colour - I used a sharpie over the surface and then a drop of mineral spirit to dissolve the sharpie mark - smeared it over and then in a minute or two the solvent was evaporated and I could print the regular oil based blue medium I use. Worked a treat and Ive plenty of sharpie colours ! Cheers Mat
I saw that in your video. Very clever.
So satisfying watching hand scraping
You might say, you have to get to the point where your lows become the highs before you move on to finishing.
An angle plate is not a bearing surface.
Scraping a bearing surface requires small individual scrapes of about .0002-.0003” for oil retention.
And, flaking is to be done on the underside contact points.
This is what I learned in Richard King’s (Kingway) scraping class.
Excellent tutorial.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge Sir!
God Bless.
I never even heard about this process until I watched a video by Lookcreations and just presumed all surface plates, surface tables and precision flat surface tools were done on a machine. The issue now is that I need to have a go at this in some way or another!
Very cool! You and Stefan have the best vids I've seen on scraping! Thanks for making this. Subscribed!
Thanks. I need to make some more.
I threw out several hundred pounds of that concrete dye a while back. I could have made a 100x lifetime supply of scraping pigment, in all the colors of the rainbow!
Wow whilst surfing through your old videos I came across this one on scraping. No doubt a useful skill to have but it comes with one definite attribute that of patience. I being lacking in that department couldn't be bothered. Metal engineering tolerances are a bit much for me I will stick to wood it is more forgiving. Interesting video and yet another example of your versatility.
I really enjoyed your video. Fast or slow depending on need. Clear explanations. Thanks.
Good clear information which gives good overall concept of the process . Well done and thanks.
Fantastic video,
..."Chinese angle plate".....well, like Stefan Gotteswinter says...."You're getting a bunch of cast iron parts as a sort of 'kit' to finish.....Excellent finish...!
Nice thank you. How do you do the other side of the 90 degree angle
how to make other side perpendicular to that side and flat by scraping is the trouble that i get.considering doing it?great channel. THANKS
Wonderful explanation and well shot. Thanks for helping us all out.
Thanks for the video. I learned a lot.
very interesting, this has just blown me away. thanks for posting this.
Great video, I have played with scraping and have had some mixed results, I like your method and explanation of how you approach your work.
It's easy to become frustrated with scraping, especially when trying to correct wear. It's a process that can't really be hurried along. Thanks for stopping by!
Wes:Nice video and excellent explanation. I totally agree with Stefan; "There should be thousands of views". Regards: Larry
Nice on the pigments. This works so much better than canode!
Absolutely. I can deal with dirty hands. I just got some Prussian Blue powder to try out.
Learned a lot, thanks.
You made the two you made really look nice natural to actually scrap with. I thought the copper, metal, wood, Delron were made in the 50's or 60's. We watched Stefan's Channel do scrapping at a school in Germany there and then back at his shop channel. You have a really nice setup, we are hopping to scrap one vintage machine we have to do. Thank you for our lesson, lots of practice roughing (proper prep) then finishing (great results) before we ever try this on our small machine. Half ways through the video I learn what you mean about leaning into the tool, hence the large Delron disk at the end of your tool.
After my 3W video tour I may have missed a few. Interesting procedure.
Thumbs up 👍 hand tool push it and go!
Thank you for this really great video.
Very helpful video Wes, thanks very much for this! :) The visibility of the black spotting compound seems quite good, I think I'll go find some of that mortar color :) One thing I noticed, all the books and videos I've studied about scraping indicate that the individual strokes should be made side-by-side, in rows that are 45 degrees across the part. The claim is that it leads to chatter in a sliding surface if you line the strokes up in "vertical" rows. I don't suppose it matters much during roughing and it looked like you did the side-by-side stroke rows in the finish pass, but just thought I'd mention for whatever it's worth. I love the handmade scrapers, very practical :) Also, it looked like you position the part down just above your knees, is that so you can push the scraper with your hip? Btw, on the Canode, they say to "thin" that with very thin vegetable oil (safflower maybe); using water could explain some of the bad behavior it was exhibiting.
I have heard of others thinning Canode with window cleaner. I have not tried that. Window cleaner is mostly alcohol, so it seems like it would flash off too quickly.
Connely advocates the 45 degree rows in his book. I usually line my scraper up at 90 degrees, but the actual scrape marks are not 90 degrees to each other because of the way I lift out when scraping. The same thing happens with the Biax. The longer the stroke, the more you see the effect. The result is that the actual scrape marks are more like 45-60 degrees to each other.
Good tool to spred the blue is peace of leather glue to peace of wood . you can feel the tickness by the resistance while spreading .
Well I leant something new! Good work
This guy is a genius.
Great video!
Thank you.
Great video good advice
Will file this one away. I'm potentially scraping on my next project
Nice job Wes! Think you have the makings of an toolmaker.
Great video! Nice overview on your scraping. One thing though, the Canode isn't actually water based, it's water soluble. It is very thick and a little sticky, as you say, as well as the other issues, but if you don't dilute it with water it will NEVER rust your work. I leave it on CI for days between scraping sessions. I'll try to find out what the carrier fluid is. If I need to thin it I've been using denatured alcohol. It flashes off quick and no rust issues. Keep up the great videos.
Excellent video, on the blue, have you use Permatex Prusian Blue, its easy to clean and it does not stain your plates,
Yes I have used it. It works well.
Now wh u haven't I seen this tell now. I subscribed hope to see more scraping.
My lathe (South Bend 9) has a wee bit of 'ridging on the last 20% of the Cast Iron Bearing surface chuck side.....they say to hone off any high spots but don't try to stone it down......any advise, which honing device, and what technique? The spindle has a few deposits of CI corresponding to the bearing....ordered a set of EZ-Lap diamond hoaners and have access to another lathe..
I just got sent over, like your methods. Enjoyed.
Thanks for coming by.
It is interesting how were made first machine tools when there were no machine tools?
Nice job Wes....too bad a guy cannot like on every view!....about the 6th time I watched, and sure I will watch again! Trying to get up to speed a bit, before taking one of Rich's classes, but not sure that my "old" arms will take it. I did pick up a Biax, but am sure it is best to start with the basics ....thanks for the detailed explanation.....off to watch you Biax vid again.
Thanks for posting videos Wes, very good instruction. Both you and Stephen Gotteswinter provide informative instructional vids.
I used this knowledge to scrape in a cross-slide on s small chickety-china lathe, worked well.
Do you take requests? You do everything relating to machining equipment, manual and NC, cornucopia of knowledge.
I have a haas sl30 ( sorry ) , and want to know how do maintenance on the turret. You did a very good turret alignment episode on the slant bed. Curious if haas turrets need to be disassembled and cleaned/lubricated periodically.
Thanks Wes J.
I believe that Haas uses compressed air to clamp the turret which is odd. I don't know of any other builder doing that. Other than keeping the curvic coupling clean, there's not much that needs to be done to the turret.
Hello. Thank you for your great video. Would u please tell me how to clean oil based pigment from surface plate. Does it clean by ammonia or wd 40? Best regards. Thank you
I learned a lot. Thank You.
اي نوع من الاصباغ تستعمل هل يمكن احد اخباري
Years ago, scrapers used red lead and prussian blue for the layout medium....
Interesting! What about the squareness? How square did it end up to the other face?
It is interesting how were made rotary parts of the first machine tools in the world without using a machine tools
Very helpful. You should think about writing up a book. Seriously!
Subscribed.
Nice !
What is the reason for doing this? Why wouldn't you use a lapping table?
Hello Wes: I was referred to your channel from Sunppaa's channel - some very informative content - I just subscribed. Ian.
Loved it!
Could you add ballast weight to the other side to balance your surface pressures? Just a thought
Nice vidio I am learning too but Chinese angle plate! Would it worth scraping cause you leave it for a year it would twist distort etc.I don't trust Chinese cause they cast in the cheapest way to get the object look alike. My two cents is you rubbing stone should have hole in the middle and you should stick to figure eight and spend more time on hand lapping(remove sharp point).
Yes, the casting is terrible. It's full of gas bubbles and impossible to scrape correctly.
Very nice work. You may not be Robin Renzetti but who is?
Wes, is the brick pigment iron oxide?
Thanks for you respect video and vork👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼bad so you not demonstrate in vork,s Switzerland tools 😎
What's the purpose of flattening the Plate is it used for specific purposes? These videos are so entertaining and intriguing to me I like these older video! @Watch Wes Work
The plate would typically be used when clamping other parts that are going to be machined (say on a milling machine). Having a flat and square angle plate means anything you clamp to it should be square to the machine bed.
Yes. Ultimately Wes will scrape the adjacent surface, but it will need to be scraped perpendicular to the surface scraped in this video. Getting flat surfaces is one thing, getting flat surfaces precisely perpendicular, or at angles like doevetails square and parallel to each other is where it gets rough! Wes does a great job in this video.
@@EricTViking oh Thank you for The Information
@@charlieromeo7663 oh okay Appreciate the information
This Old Wes... Thanks for watching! (said as a compliment)
Have you ever measured how many microns come off per scrape ?
Once you have one side of the angle block scraped and flat......how do you square up the other surface to get perpendicularity ?
Scraping for square is a whole other issue. I'll try to cover it in a further video.
You need a reference that is perfectly 90 machined and then you clamp the finished surface and blue.
you can also self generate them using the three plate method
I still haven't quit figured out how you get your marking die to that consistency. Yours looks like a heavy grease and not too sticky. When I mix mine with 30 weight or way oil no matter how thick I mix it eventually slumps to the bottom of the container. If its really think it acts almost like a non newtonian fluid and is very sticky. It seems to work well and sometimes I thin it with denatured alcohol that helps, I'm just curious. I think I have some of that old blueish green x-tra heavy wheel grease, I guess I could try that.
are those carbide tipped scraper
Yes
great videos! subscribed. thanks
Thanks.
Thank you for such a great video, it answered a lot of my questions missed by others... any chance on some details on your scraper blades and their shapes? it's really hard to find pictures and details on the exact shape and grinds :)
I will try to make more scraping videos in the future. I want to make a video that covers some of the gaps in other videos and a video about alignments. Scraping is a boring and tedious job, so it's difficult to make a scraping video that's actually watchable.
It's very watchable as your always imparting knowledge! It deserves more views and likes as it's one of (if not the) best video on scraping
thank so much.
Isn't the plane being inclined in one direction thus changing the 90° angle too much ? I can see this working well for flat surfaces but for angled supports is that ok ?
When the other side is scraped, squareness will be corrected/maintained/addressed.
My question for anyone now is. How do you now scrape for square on the other face?
I think i know the answer scrape one side flat and blue an angle plate and rub it to show wheres touching and you scrape it.from my experience you should scrape individual marks rather then scraping the blue with an uncontrolled method.meaning hit where the blues ate but has to be spaced in between scrape marks and cross the scrape.
With a square level
Is that Rodan I hear in the background. I hear a lot of birds. Beautiful video though. Excellent.
I've got a set of big machinist parallels about 3ft long and a lonely 2ft parallel (or maybe vise versa I forget which size I have a set of) and I'm wondering how you decide between having a smooth finish or a scraped finish. I know putting them on a grinding machine is a good "roughing" (relatively speaking) procedure prior to lapping or scraping for overall parallelism, but I'm unsure about the advantages to scrapped verses a smooth surface for the final product. I am aware that the scrapped finish helps distribute a film of oil when it is used for something like machine ways, but given the use of machinist parallels I hope to not see the same sliding motion experienced by the machine ways. Truthfully I don't own any machinery remotely big enough like a big horizontal boring mill or metal planer to make regular use out of the parallels, but I would still like the project of doing some finishing work on them. I'd love your advice before spending lots of time hand scraping them, or even more time lapping them into a surface finish that can be wrung too.
Thanks in advance,
-Adam
One advantage of a scraped surface is there is no heating to cause the work piece to distort like there is with grinding. Another is that the surface holds oil better, much like cross hatching in a cylinder bore. Not so much an issue with angle plates and straight edges, but very important for machine ways.
Great video. I learned a whole lot here. One question. How do you maintain the perpendicularity of the angle block? 90.000 degrees, means 90.000 degrees, right? Do you do rough in, then measure a whole bunch of times for angle, average the results, adjust the rough in and go again?
I swear I replied to your question, but it seems to be gone now. Scraping for alignment is a whole other subject. The best way is to compare the angle plate to a known master square. If you don't have a known master square, you have to use 2 or 3 angle plates and compare them to each other while scraping and eventually the errors will cancel out. The Moore book "Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy" covers the topic thoroughly.
Typically the alignment is set in the rough scraping. You would check periodically while finish scraping to be sure you do not move the surface out of alignment. It's far more tedious than just scraping a surface flat.
impressive
Have you tried Prussian blue easily found at parts stores
Good info on scraping Wes! subscribed
ATB, Robin
Thank you. I really enjoy your videos as well.
that's the first time i seen scraping. i have used hand stone on heads and motor blocks. had no problem . Just used Wd-40.
So the difference between a good job and a bad job is a lot of money as it will affect the cost of work that you do if it’s not true to measurements
Wes, never seen this before, not sure what scrapping is.....i am assuming you are trying to make the surface flat. can you tell me why you are doing this......can a machine do this? surface mill? so confused. but a great video
A surface grinder heats the workpiece causing it to distort. So the process is to grind it as close to perfect as you can, then fine tune the surface with scraping. It also allows the surface to hold oil better. Much like crosshatching in a cylinder bore.
People talk about scraping to 1 or 2 tenths. How do they measure that?
A dial indicator with 10,000 measurements. They attach it to a stand and put both whatever is being scraped and stand on a granite block and get the measurements. I'm not a machinist so I don't know the terminology
Knew what scraping was but have never seen it done.
Thanks for sharing! This is awesome. How do you know that you're not making the surface "out of square" when scraping?
That's a whole other subject. I'll cover that in a future video.