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BIG CAUTION with Travel Trailer Toy Haulers! Vengeance Rogue 21V
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- čas přidán 3. 01. 2020
- #rv #towing #trucks
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Yes! Do more toy hauler vids please.
You ok man? All he ever does is toy hauler videos.
@@scarroll625 Actually, you are wrong.
He reviews travel trailers, but this is the first 'toy hauler' I've seen in ANY of his reviews. Furthermore, he even said that he does not review these much.
After seeing many rv reviewer's videos, it is clear that you are one of the most clear, nicely describing and explaining person, with showing most basics which matters most.
You should show Toy Haulers more often. Popularity started here in the Southwest and has spread across the country.
Load equalizing hitch and weight over/forward of the axles on the "bumper pulls". Also learn the different style of trailer plugs. The big storage is for tools. When you are hauling off road vehicles and using them they break.
The most popular line now is Grand Design Momentum. Still affordable.
Dive Bar Casanova completely agree. We have an Adrenaline Toy hauler and my wife and I tour the country with our Harley and spend weeks at a time.
We have a 21G. The floor plan is very similar to this 21V. We don't have a coffee station though, but we have built in doggie bowls. LOL
I absolutely love our toy hauler. The entire family LOVES all the open room when the "toys" are unloaded at the dunes or mountains. Such a flexible design. Fully agree with getting the cargo load oriented properly. Dont forget weight when water tanks are filled. Our Attitude has two 50gal tanks, positioned on each side of the axles to even out the load.
We added the CRE3000 system over the summer, made an amazing difference in ride.
Great advice. We have a 28ft toy hauler, and we are comfortable in it for weeks on end. Big tanks, 40 gallons of gas for the gen, solar, two 30lb LP and a patio. Totally happy Boondocking for extended periods. Thanks again for the great video!
I appreciate the info on the sway and load info I've always wondered how that worked!
Very important to spend the time explaining your concerns with this type of toy hauler.
We do two weeks in our unit with three kids. Great having a garage for the bikes or quads. The bunk beds are great. Lots of water in toyhaulers.
Hi, great review and topic discussion. I think I might be in a different category of buyer because I am not frightened by the weight and balance issues of a toy hauler. I used to balance C-130 Hercules aircraft with helos and vans. The important task to ensure success is getting the extra equipment which will allow you to monitor tongue weight. They make hitch hook ups with weight gauges in them that do a nice job of for telling the true balance of weight...not just eye balling it or measuring rear axle drop. If you get a chance you would be the perfect guy to test a few of these to let folks know how to best use them for these types of rigs. Cheers.
Please do more reviews of toy haulers! This specific style of toy hauler is just what I’m looking for!
Finally a toy hauler. I hate the layout but ill take it. You should do a demonstration, with an ATV with that fancy new weight safe hitch you got.
Good point.
So Funny, last year we were interested in buying this exact model. Great Floorplan, good trailer for the money. Dealer said "No Problem" pulling with our 2.7 ecoboost F-150 with a 7800 Towing Capacity. He stated most buyers of this model from his dealership are half-ton owners. After I got to the dealership and looked at the exact weights on the tag, No Way in HeXX, maybe 3/4 ton, but that's even pushing it when loaded up.
I bought the 31v model last fall, 38 foot travel trailer. I had my 2018 F-150 short bed at the time, and we made a couple test hauls with it.
About 66 gallons of water, 30ish gallons of gas, and a roughly 1500lbs SXS in the garage.
I had a decent weight distribution hitch for our test runs as well.
The drives were somewhat local, about 3 hours in the hills of NH.
I won't say it was white knuckled, but I definitely knew the trailer was there, and that long hauls were not in the cards for that truck.
So, my 2020 F-250 is on order, and will be here in about 10 weeks. Very excited to have something a tad better suited for this setup.
A tad better? I'd say a whole lot better! No offense but no half ton should be towing a trailer that big in the first place! Congratulations on your new truck!
@@BigBadJohnDiesel no offense taken. I did a lot of research and having never owned a travel trailer, was able to get a little confused by the manufacturer towing specs and how much I should be towing. Best case, I knew I was at the absolute upper end of what I could pull, worst case I needed a new truck. The 2 test runs at the end of the season sealed the deal that the truck was too small.
The trailer has been parked for the winter, so I knew I had some time to get something better before our first planned trip in April.
@@rharding1701 did you go with a diesel?
@@BigBadJohnDiesel I did, 6.7 power stroke, with the high capacity town package.
@@rharding1701 very nice! I'm happy for you! Once you go diesel, you'll never go back! Haha! Enjoy!
Oh hey. A video on exactly the trailer the wife and I are looking to get. You are truly the hero I don't deserve.
I like this type of RV, not for any toys but because there is a lot of room for cabinets and extra sleeping space away from each other and you have a patio. I think this would be ideal for extended camping.
Thank you. I love how precise your videos are and focus on safety.
Excellent advice. Had family who had a terrible accident with an out of control sway accident. Glad you are letting folks know.
Our Toyhauler is a gooseneck and has the toy area totally separate from the living area. 60% living 40% toy area. I like it as it keeps any toy smells out of the living area. Though it limits the living area. 21K GVWR allows about 10K of toys.
The vented generator bay door has nothing to do with fumes. It is to allow intake air in. The fumes will exit by an exhaust pipe which by industry standards should extend beyond the outer wall of the RV.
Thanks for the toy hauler review. You are indeed correct about the method of loading. Would love to see more of these. Especially those under 28 feet.
The axles looked to be set farther to the back. That makes sense for weight distribution so the living area and tank weight would be added to the tongue. I once had an 60s era travel trailer that had the water tank in the back that caused it to sway so bad I stopped hauling any water.
I really appreciate the emphasis on the Tounge weight I am new to trailer towing.
JD you are spot on with this. I have a Work and Play 30QBS, with my RZR Turbo S in the garage I need 600 lbs of plate steel in the front storage compartment to prevent sway with my F250 super duty.
Great review as always. You really give THE COMPLETE perspective with your reviews and that separates your channel from the rest. I hear ALOT of ignorance from RVers as in regards to safety and proper towing. Thank you for your great perspective.
Big thanks for finally doing a travel trailer toy hauler. I am looking into the Heartland Torque T322.
Whatwith the issue of tongue weight, you probably need a toy hauler with the axles further back, maybe like winnebago spyder (lots of room both ahead and on top of the axle). They're definitely on the longer side though.
I have a 21 foot toy hauler with a very similar layout, I pull it with a 2012 GMC Sierra Denali 6.2L with Max Tow, it does fine even in a 7% Grade, I did install airbags, I should also mention that I load a 2000 lb side by side as close to the rear axles as I can get but it's closer to the back. Knock on wood I've never had the mentioned sway problem. I do use a high quality stabilizing hitch mounted to the frame of the trailer.
I like toy haulers because I don't want someone else's idea of a bed taking up a third of the room inside. The bump out is really nice too.
Love toys haulers just for the patio out back. I'd personally upgrade those 2 chairs to nice recliners, bench seating recovered with something more comfortable, awning on the back end with lights and a small BBQ, and a decent mossie curtain I'd be in heaven. I have no toys but can see the value for just travelling around.... great review, love the onboard gas tank too...
The chairs are liteweight and somewhat compact for moving around while loading and in transit. It's all about if you have room to accommodate bigger stuff after you are loaded up.
@@Dive-Bar-CasanovaAs I said, I have no toys and would rather have comfort over the ability to haul bikes, quads etc...
Just get a couple faux leather footstools off amazon to prop your feet up on. Very nice and comfortable in these type of chairs.
@@dallanc5199 lol, knowing my missus it'd need to be real leather.... :(
what about a TT toy hauler that has a wall between the garage and living area? Momentum 29G for example. Also the 29G has a 1500lb hitch weight dry and only weighs 8350lbs .. so it's like they "build in" the counter balancing for once the toys are loaded all the way in the back.
Hello. Such you haulers are generally designed to be very front heavy even when empty. This helps adjust for weight in the back even though it is still something to be careful about
Hey BTBRV, I've been doing research for a while on auxiliary (in bed) fuel tanks for gasoline trucks and the legality of it. I get allot of mixed information different places. In the future I plan to tow a 5th wheel with a ford v10 6.8 f250 and would really LOVE extra fuel for travel since my mileage won't be far with only 29ish gallons. Could you do a video that addresses this issue? Thanks and GREAT JOB as always!!
I have a 25kw forest river Nitro and inside I haul a rzr xp4. You should mention the water tank is located towards the front and is 100 gallon capacity which adds alot of weight when full to the front of the trailer. This may have been done to counter the weight of the toys loaded in the rear.
I love strapping my dog to the toyhauler to get a good walk in around the park in the morning.
I have owned two different toy haulers and they both have the axles so far back that they had 15 percent minimal on the tongue empty. When I load a 4 wheeler all the way in the back like was mentioned it only changed the tongue weight by 100 lbs from 1200 to 1100. Think weight and arm. That arm going rear of the axle is very short. If I place the 4 wheeler in the front of the cargo area the weight increases by 200 pounds at the tongue almost half through weight of the 4 wheeler. Then I would be tongue heavy. These trailers are not as dangerous as this vid makes them out to be. Key is to get something to weigh the tongue load your stuff and adjust as necessary. just be aware of what you are doing. Don't be afraid to buy these and set them up the way you like.
Most toy hauler fresh water tanks are forward of axles, so that weight can be used to balance the load if you have toys in the back.
I had my bro in law who is a civil engineer help me with a calculation knowing the dry pin weight, length, distance from center line of the axles to front & back, gvwr of the trailer & max load cap; we were able to calc an approx reduction depending on the weight put behind that axle center line. Roughly 25% reduction. So if your tongue load is 1,000 lbs, once the max weight was added into the garage behind the axles the tongue load would be around 750.
That video I sent you of the guy losing control of the toy hauler goes along with this video perfectly.
REALLY LIKE the introductory music sound track on all your video's !
If you don't plan on using the extra bed in the garage area, take it out. That will be 100+lbs off the back of the trailer if you are worried about load leveling issues
That warning is across every toy hauler across the industry not just this one unit.
Notice how far back the axles are. Makes sense on a toy hauler
When I purchased my toy hauler, the sales rep advised me to mount my toys in the back of trailer to reduce tongue weight! LOL. Now because my 2 dirt bike only amount to about 400 lbs, I really didnt see any additional sway due to this. But if it was a 1000 lb motorcycle, I could see how that is a problem. In addition, these toy haulers have very large 100plus gallon water tanks, which can be used as a ballast when trying to balance the load inside trailer. My water tank is just in front of axles so that method works well for my trailer, if I choose to load toys in back. 800 lbs in front of axles, and 450 lbs behind axles seems well balanced to me.
That's EXACTLY why you SHOULD review/explain more because people DON'T KNOW what they are doing.
That thing that the springs connect to is an equalizer. It isn’t a flexible one but put a two x four under the front tire and it will still have equal weight on both axels. It isn’t flexible but still equalizes between the springs. Are there better setups? Yes. But this does work.
Toy haulers like this usually are built in with a bit more unloaded hitch weight. Specs for this particular model state that there is a 1040 lb weight over the tongue unloaded. Definitely need to know how to load up such a unit, and what the weights of your toys are, but I think most will be fine as that garage space isnt large enough for anything with real heft.
That says it all. Thumbs up.
I have a vengeance 29v. 35 foot total length. Pull it with a 2015 chevy dually. Works great.
“This is the kind you definitely want to tow with a 3/4 ton…”
I tow my toy hauler with a 1/2 ton SUV. Oops! 😂
(Much lighter than that one though)
I'm thinking you probably wouldn't want to use that generator, when you're trying to sleep. Looks like the housing is right underneath the bed. This thing is strictly a daytime unit, with the ability to run off batteries at night.
One of our toy haulers had a 5500 Cummins Onan right underneath the bed. At our ATV races, that generator was a far better hum than all the other folks yelling and screaming late into the night.
@@jamesmclamb3682, I can relate to that !! 🤪😜😁
Thank you for doing a toy hauler review. The wife and I are looking to get our first and we have motorcycles we want to haul with us.
Check out Grand Design Momentum and shoot for 30% off MSRP. Keep shopping until you find it. Painted units don't fade like the decal units, but more $$.
Dive Bar Casanova been looking at the 29g. Thanks for the tip.
Dustin Beamer Are they the thousand pound kind? 😳 lol. I don’t think JD rides much. While there certainly are motorcycles that approach 1000 lbs, most are not. He’s off by about 200-300 lbs. Even more (MUCH) for crotch rockets or dirt bikes.
Michael Godsey two cruisers and one sport bike
@@Pilot545 my 1000cc adventure touring bike is 500 lbs, and dirt bikes are about 225 lbs
I can’t stand it when a manufacturer doesn’t give you axles rated up to the GVWR. As you so stated, it would be very easy to misload that trailer to 11,000 lbs (be within GVWR) and only have about 500 lbs of that on the tongue wt. Now you aren’t only dealing with a dangerous sway condition, but possibly also a tire or broken spring/axle condition as well.
Before driving the trailer on off-road situations, loosen or remove weight equalization bars so uneven ground doesn't over-flex the bars and possible damage the trailer tongue. I've actually seen damage caused.
These types of toy haulers always looked so cold to me. Definitely remind me of a repair shop waiting room more than a home.
endofsociety Pick your poison. Either it feels like you are parking your dirt bikes and quads in a living room space or you are living in a garage with a sofa. The third option is a segregated space with a door between them, in which case both are more ideal to their purpose but much smaller.
Thanks for sharing this info. I just bought a toy hauler I don’t plan on hauling toys but was concerned that without a toy in the back I was going to be heavy on the truck.
Why it is so important to hit the scales after it’s loaded up
A used horse trailer with living quarters makes a better toy hauler because the trailer itself is far more robust than these sticks and staples crappy RVs. Just remove the stalls or leave them in if you have bikes. Living area is fully sealed off from the stall area and weight distribution is not an issue since horses are heavier than toys.
Was that a bathroom in the front next to the bedroom? Did you happen to notice the sticker price hanging from the cabinet? Always interesting to see how these are priced regionally. Thanks for the education around loading!
I’ve been eying toy haulers as a full time trailer. I’d have to trade my current light half-ton in for a 3/4 ton, but all that open space would be very comfortable, I think.
EXCELLENT points !
SAFETY ALWAYS FIRST !
Excellent explanation of tow weight and how to distribute it. A lot of “dealers” don’t give a shit and they just want to put u in something and get u down the road. Believe me I know.
Thank for this detailed info.
Point taken on loading, but Toy Haulers have the axles moved rearward to minimize this issue already. I have a tongue weight scale and have to load my toy hauler ALL the way at the back because I have too much tongue weight otherwise.
What size do u have just upgraded to a 33ft and having problems after 60 when loaded
I have a 27ft Attitude... love it
Thank you for doing a great video with toy hauler (any trailer) loading advice.
Sure wish Toy haulers were made with axles placed much further back like an over the road cargo trailer behind the big trucks.
I dont care what the industry or organization, companies should always think lawsuit. This design,like you said,COULD become dangerous. Someones gonna get hurt and even though the purchaser was informed,thats not an excuse for selling POSSIBLY dangerous things.Apparently ceos and travel trailer top dogs hire their nephew or somebody that could.." talk good stuff." Not forsee problems that may lead to lawsuits. But thats just an old East Texas country boys' take.Working 18years oilpatch trucking then 25years in county corrections helps me to see those things that lead to problems./suggestion to all bumper pull toyhaul manufactors...move the entire suspension back say...18-20" and add a third axle. It wouldnt hurt.
Really, really, really, like that you have the explanation and commentary about loading the Garage ama how it affects tongue weight, this stability. I have not bought one yet but being for single GoldWing, I've been really thinking and wondering about exactly what you said. You got my only thumbs up like, of any RV demo dude across numerous dealers because old your assoc inclusion of such a critical consideration.
Need more toy hauler reviews!
Biggest weight issue everyone ignores is tongue weight. Dealer said my 1500 will tow it, sure it will, with no toy in back and equalizer 60 lbs over weight we now have a dangerous condition. If we don't take the bike we have an expensive useless RV. Hope the dealer grants a pass, but doubtful.
I have a Genesis 19ss (about 25') bumper pull toy hauler I use quite a bit out here in the Pacific Northwest. That comment about that unit being designed primarily for just an overnighter camping trip and not for camping for a duration is not accurate at all. Most the guys I know with Toy Haulers of this size in this area use them for long weekend to week-long trips or longer, at least out here in the west. I use mine to haul dirt/dual sport and adventure bikes, and more often than not I'm boondocking (No solar, just a Honda 2000 on mine). Once you have the bikes out and couches and table down, it's very comfortable to camp in. Some folks need/want more house features than others, but for others like myself it's pretty luxurious. I have a number of trips in mine on my youtube channel if you want to see one being used. Sometimes we don't even haul the toys and use it just as a regular old camping trailer for more family trips. It's very nice to lower that backdoor and use the screen in porch on mine to really let the outdoors in. There is no perfect RV, just a lot of options that fits some folks better than others. That front closet thing on this one sure is weird though!
Fully agree. Here in the west, 2 week hunting trips are very common. These are very comfortable to live in.
Thanks for the review. Very interesting about the toy weights and weight distribution.
I love tow hauler but i always load towards the tongue!
Slightly lower trailer tire pressure in 2psi increments if sway is an issue and nothing else helps and you are loaded and hooked up proper. Truck and trailer dead level when hooked up is essential for braking to work proper and avoid sway.
Thats pretty smart increasing drag to keep it straight. Never thought of that
It looked like there was a wardrobe or place to hang clothes on the wall, front sidewall facing the bed area, close to the dresser. Was that hanging space or washer space? Looked like two doors.
He ignored that area
Thank you so much, info I NEEDED to know!!
All travel trailer owners need to be aware of hitch weight, not just toy haulers. Why not do a video on the 21V as an example of how to do the analysis? The slide-out up front adds a lot of upfront weight. The hitch weight on this trailer is 1040 lbs. How you load that big upfront compartment would add a lot of weight. That unit has a 100 gallon fresh tank, Where is it located? Would having it full allow you to balance the rear load? Where are the black and gray tanks? Would those becoming full and the fresh empty mean you need load up differently on the trip home after a weekend? Also, when adding toys to the cargo area, factor in the percent of front unloading that happens due to the fact that the back overhang is shorter than the front axle overhang, The front over hang includes the distance to the ball. And of course follow that up with going to the scales. I'd like to see this talked about in detail.
Thank you for the safety tip for loading toy haulers. I didn't know it was so important to to put the load ahead of the trailer axles. I mean I knew it would effect the way it handled but was unaware that it could be dangerous. I hope to get a toy hauler soon. This info will stick in my head when it comes time to purchase.
Please review a Momentum from Grand Design. Thank you for the great videos
They look really nice, with a price tag to match. Neighbor just bought a 21G after seeing our new Attitude. He was showing me the electric bench seats... ran one up the wall and it fell out of the track and onto the floor. He was having trouble getting a dealer to service it locally last time I talked to him.
60/40... Most on or in front of axels
Need to give inside measurements of the toy holler space
Could you do a review of a wheelchair accessible travel trailer
Thank you for talking about weight distribution.
ATTENTION******* Make sure to provide measurements from the door to cabinet and from cabinet to wall... this way we can tell if our toys will fit. sxs mainly
Just remember the D rings up front need to be used for the heaviest bike you have in the bunch. Or side by sides with their engines in the rear you must load by backing them in to get the most weight that’s in the rear up towards the front of the trailer, then you have done all you can to get the most weight distributed towards the front.
Depends where your fresh, grey and black tanks are. You can easily offset engine weights by adding water elsewhere. All depends on the specific trailer layout as to the proper way to load it
Dallan C everything you posted has merit, but I’ve never seen any tra Le trailer with tanks mounted ahead of the rear wheels.
Personal experience about trailer sway...it’s not good.
Great info
Man, that is a super deep slide. I personally like Flagstaff because they have opposing slides that deep giving a huge living room. As for the front storage, that's cool and all, but I cant imagine ever utilizing the upper half of it.
Imagine opening the storage up and having everything collapse on you.
If you are off roading with motorcycles or SxS's you'll need room for spare parts and tools. Also outdoor carpets and camping chairs and the like. Never enough room.
@@Dive-Bar-Casanova I agree with what your saying, but to utilize the upper portion, your gonna start stacking items on each other which is terrible when the rv is in motion.
Nice it's like a Man cave with wheels
i kinda like the design of a toy hauler but not for toys. using the rear door as a deck platform would be really nice. i keep envisioning these with a projector and screen rather than a small tv.
QUESTION: On our around the country vacation last summer, we bent the rear driver axle on our travel trailer. Did not realize that until the tire had worn out on the inside edge. Replaced with spare to get home (wore it bad too). Arriving home the frame shop re-aligned and I bought a new tire. Is there any aftermarket kit or shock absorbers that may help prevent this? Another vacation planned this summer and I want to avoid the same issue. Frame guy said likely potholes were the culprits.
What size would one need for a can-am spider and Harley ultra full dressed ?
Huh that’s my hometown I was at Ron Hoover’s place last week that’s cool
1000 pound motorcycles? That is pretty high even for an Electra Glide or Gold Wing. Balancing the load front to back is still really important, even with 400 pound bikes.
Great review. That needed to be said. Thank you.
What does axle leveling do? That's a new term to me, and we are looking at a bumper pull toy hauler
Safety first
Is this unit 30 or 50 or 60 amp and how many ac's does it have?
1 ac and 30amp service
Yeah, I wouldn't do this one. But I guess it's just common sense stuff when pulling stuff. Keep the weight over the axles, right? Where it equalizes out? Or slightly in front? Toy haulers have been interesting to me because they present an opportunity to create a working art space in the back. But . . . I don't know. It might end up depending on the trailer and how it functions as a whole.
More bumper pull toy haulers. For both loading education and choices. We own one for my mobility scooter and I love it but would like to see more models.
Thanks. Nice to know
You needed to do more reviews on toy haulers that way everybody can learn how to properly load a toy hauler.