102: FAN or NO FAN for Baking Bread? - Bake with Jack
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- čas přidán 25. 06. 2024
- A simple question with a not-so-simple answer. Fan or no Fan, Convection oven or Conventional oven? Hope this helps!
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Mate, this channel is pure gold. I also have an oven that has only fan and was worried about the bread making thing. Now you have explained it I am off like a frog in a sock to bake bread tomorrow.
thanks Jack, for improving my bread baking by a gazillion %
OMG, I just discovered you on youtube and you just solved the riddle of why my glasses steam up when I open the oven door. It's the only oven I've ever had that did that. Thanks to you I now know that it has a good seal that keeps in the moisture! Unfortuantely, we're 2 weeks away from selling that house and moving so I hope that the electric oven in our new-to-us house will also have a tight seal.
A wonderful question got answered. Thank you for giving insight to this area.
Only a matter of time before Jack's videos will be required to carry a warning label for their risk of addiction and contribution to the intellectual growth on the part of his bakers, Jack hit it again with a topic that no one else even thought to mention. Jack has more class, is more likable, has more common sense than ... uh, Jack needs to stand for the position that results in living at #10 Downing. Way to go mate!
I only saw a couple of his videos
It just seemed like a bit of harmless fun
Nah, I wont get hooked
I thought I could handle it
Is there a bakers anonymous group...
@@ColinIngus1sign me up 😊
Good to see you back in the saddle Jack and an excellent, instructable video.
Oven terminology has changed since my kitchen design/sales days (1980s). Back then you had a convection oven which distributed heat by convection currents i.e. warm air rising then falling as it cooled; then you had a fan assisted oven which was a (conventional) convection oven with a fan to help circulate the air; then you had a forced air oven which had a heating element surrounding the fan - this was the most efficient oven and when using an older recipe you were advised to reduce the temperature by 10% and time by 20 mins in the hour. They did tend to dry the food more. Also with a forced air oven there was, so it was said, no intermingling of flavours so different dishes could be cooked and baked together 🤓
I've made the sourdough from last week three times now, it's absolutely brilliant.
Also, it looks like you've had a good jump in subscribers; congrats on that too!
Awww thanks Jack. I just learned something AGAIN. I've been using a new oven that came with the house we purchased and every time I'm about to open my oven door, after it's been on awhile", I cringe because I get this poof of hot air. Sometimes it's unexpectedly so hot and steamy I need to turn my head and wait or cover my face with a towel. Omg....all this time it's been a good thing. Now I know. I'll stop complaining.
Thanks for sharing this. My oven has multiple options and I never know the difference.
finally, an explanation from an experienced baker. very important info. thanks.
Moral of the story: know you oven. Mine has no fan and I can still make your 'simple bread loaf' recipe with no problems whatsoever. I've tried many other people's bread recipes too - even ones that involve using very modern convection (fan-assisted) ovens and baking the bread using the 'cold start' method, etc. I adjust the cooking times/temps using my old faithful electric oven and the bread turns out beautifully every time.
I baked a loaf of bread in my newer oven this past weekend (Rosemary Italian Asiago Italian bread I came up with for my wife's birthday dinner). While finishing, I noticed the oven has a convection mode and wanted to kick myself. Thanks for the insight and yes, it forced me to subscribe. Love the recipes and videos Jack.
Cheers, Jack!
Just a little correction. Even in conventional ovens, without fan, there is air circulation, due to convection. Convection a way to transfer heat in fluids when the heat source comes from bottom. The hot fluid is less dense and rises, while the cold fluid is denser and sinks. When the cold fluid reaches the bottom it get heated again and rises.... The flow goes indefinitely. However, a fan is more effective in homogenizing the temperature.
Congratulations for this great chanel!
Thanks Jack, nice video! I'd like to add my experience:
I have a really sh***y old oven that blows the steam out and even with fan on doesn't distribute the heat evenly, resulting in sad, flat sourdough loafs . A very simple solution for that problem is, to cover the entire loaf with a big stainless steel salad bowl for the first half an hour of baking (with fan, 250 degrees Celsius), then uncover it and continue baking until it becomes nice and golden on the outside ( about 20 min @200 degrees Celsius). The salad bowl seals the environment and any moisture from the bread will create a steamy environment perfect for letting the bread rise and the crust crack up. 🤩
Don’t buy a new oven; they’re only made to last 3-4 years no matter how much you spend. Whirlpool is one of the worst and they make numerous brands! Get yours repaired or use your great solution.
Aha!! How about a tip that covers those tests you mentioned (biscuits and baked veggies) as a way to analyze the properties of your oven ... not to mention we can eat the results of the tests. Sounds like a tip I can really use. I'm guessing an oven thermometer might be a part of the testing too.
Thanks Jack !
French bakers ovens heat directly underneath .
The heat boils the liquid to lift the mix just like a pan of mushy peas will boil over...
Daren't ask you about the oven I use, a 5 oven AGA. No fan, no temperature control, just 5 ovens each one progressively hotter than the one before. The hottest being 450f. No hot spots, holds plenty of steam, makes great bread. Took some getting used to after the Rangemaster fan oven we had though.
My oven is an electric fan oven (no option to turn off) with a complete seal (you have to open the door from the side not to get the good news in the face). It always bakes anything closer to it faster than the other side. Cakes/breads end up lopsided as near the fan bakes quicker. Cakes, I always put greaseproof paper to line tin. Bread, I bake in a granite stone and I put a heavy duty stainless steel bowl covering the bread, keeping the fan harshness away and sealing that nice moist microclimate in for first 30 minutes. Then take the bowl off and finish baking the bread off for 10 minutes.
Thank you 😊
My oven is very even in heat, so I use convection if I bake my sourdough in a dutch oven, but if I produce steam in the oven using pans and such I turn off the fan so the steam won't blow out if I open the door :)
That’s what I was looking for thanks. Thats varmluft right?
Hi Jack. A very timely topic for me. I recently moved into a rental with a convection oven where all the symbols have worn off on the dials. I have no idea where the heat is coming from nor the temperature, although now I’ve installed a little oven thermometer. The first time I baked a loaf, the air blew the top so hard that the bread came out looking like your hair style!.
Funny! I am afraid of that on my Convection oven. But this convection oven setting makes fabulous moist meat with the probe included.
So i actually was lookin this up on google first before findin there were very few folks talkin about it on youtube... And at least what i found there was everyone recommend it for any good artisan bread.
But yea, its 100% more about if it keeps steam in or not. And if anythin, the fan is **better** if it keeps the steam in. Bcuz the fan keeps that steam around all of the bread and cooks it faster which helps it brown up proper.
All I have learn through watching this is that you are very experienced with ovens and cakes. That ovens are different and that basically you cannot know.
Your channel convinced me to make my own sourdough starter. I did everything wrong and it was a great success nevertheless. What I mean by that is that I understand what I did wrong, fixed it and got great results. All without being exact, precise, or fussy. It's all mechanics and ratios. It's a very forgiving process. The in between results were very tasty. Sourdough weights are irrelevant; just keep on going until you can reliably get your mixtures to double their volume after feeding. Mostly it's as simple as guesstimating the viscosity of the mixture and fixing it with more flour or water and waiting some time. Temperature is critical. This works a lot faster at 25 degrees than it does at 18 degrees.
Once you get there, mix your dough, wait for autolysis to happen, shape, and wait until it doubles in size. Don't double before you shape, been there done that and it's hard to fix. Bake. Moisturize while baking (the bread, by means of steam/water spray). Happiness. Get the scraper thing from Jack. It probably makes manipulating the dough a lot easier. I used my fingers, I don't recommend it but it worked.
The good thing about sourdough bread, is that every failed attempt still brings you delicious bread. It may be a bit flat but meh ;)
back in the day 1950 -1960's, our local baker, had a big brick oven, which was preheated, before the bread was put in, it came out 0630 hours in the morning, nice real crust all the way around, including the base, not like the most of bread today, where the " crust " is the thickness of paper, when you touch it, it falls off,
thanks for your video.
I recently made an investment (and it was!) in a countertop 4 in 1 - convection, grill, microwave and steam. I am loving it!! I took it out for drinks and nibbles and it promised to do well by my experiments. So far, it's true to its word ;-)
A small caveat to add to the conversation: While a "convection oven" is another word for a fan oven, the word "convection" actually has nothing to do with the fan being in there. Convection is the movement of a fluid in a circular path due to it being heated from the bottom. The warm air rises, cools, then sinks back down. This happens in a conventional oven if the heat source is at the bottom, and the process is actually *disrupted* in a fan oven, since the fan moves air around in an attempt to more evenly distribute the heat.
In other words, I have no idea why fan ovens are called convection ovens, since it seems like the opposite should be true.
Ryan Barr thanks, I interesting.
Maybe because blowing the air increases the convection coefficient?
Coincidentally i read this definition before this video.LOL
I think calling an oven "convection" is short for "forced convection" which does mean it has a fan to move the air around.
Like you I can't turn the fan off. And it also has hotspots, unfortunately. Using a duch oven seems to work better for my bread baking in that sense. Makes it more even.
Thank you Jack, that was very informative and helpful to me, my oven can be conventional, with fan or just fan. I am about to bake my bread this morning and will use the fan only setting. Fingers crossed. X
very funny
If I use the fan from the beginning my bread doesn't grow and gets burned on the sides. If I use heat from top and bottom during all the baking process, my bread gets burned on the top. So finally I have learned how to bake it. First I use heat from top and bottom (my oven doesn't have only-bottom heat without fan). I put a tray on the top with water to buffer the heat coming from the top resistance. When the bread is fully risen, I change to the bottom and fan mode to the end of the bake. And if I see the top is not brown enough, I turn on top resistance near the final stage.
Yayy!! U really know ur oven! 😜
Thats top much work
Thanks so much for your comment and as my bread is in the oven I was looking for this exact answer!
My oven is sub-optimal, you might say - pleasantly warmish at the bottom, like a volcano at the top - and vented too. However, as you say the thing is to come to an accommodation with what you've got, and we got there in the end. Don't tell anyone but a lot of the time I do sourdough in a tin with a foil tent crimped over the top.
Thanks, Jack. I have a brand new oven, which I paid a lot of money for! But I haven’t baking with the convection feature on yet because none of the other bread videos I’ve watched talked about cooking bread with convection. Anyway, I’m baking sourdough bread today and I’m going to try it with the fan on.
How did it go
Thank you for this video - I to know if I still need to cover the bread when starting to bake or not? Thanks
Gooooood thanks man!
Good answer. I believe my Convection oven has a vent out because I feel heat escaping from a slot on the front. So I guess that means I need to cover the loaf with a dome casserole to create the steam inside it.
Does anyone else have a KitchenAid Double Convection oven combo with the Microwave above? How did your artisan bread come out in the oven part?
Hi Jack. Do you ever open the oven door half way through your bread bake to let steam out and continue baking without steam? I’ve heard that some professional bakers do this, but when I use my enamel roaster as a Dutch oven, I bake with the lid on for the whole time.
when i bake bagels with toppings on them i have to turn off the fan. half way through cook time the toppings would be scorched to ash especially onions. turning off the fan makes them come out perfect.
Right my first bread was epic.. So I woke up into a dough fight and I'm about to put them in.. Last time 160 for 25 mins.. No fan. No steam.. This time steam.... Ovens up to temp.. Let's go!!
I prefer without fan because with it I don't achieve such a great oven spring (crust hardens quicker). I generate steam using additional sheet under pizza steel.
Hi. I’ve got a combination steam oven which is great for baking bread, but I’ve recently been bought a lovely granite baking stone which fits in my electric fan oven but not in the steam oven. I can’t decide which is better - the combi steam oven or using the baking stone in the fan oven. Any advice? (I really enjoy the bread making tips, you’ve helped me make a proper sourdough after years of trying and failing!)
I am a Fan, of bread...yep.
I always wonder when people say 'N degrees with fan on' because it sounds like fan on/off is a button. My oven has modes, I usually use top&bottom but there is also fan and 'eco fan' whatever it means. I found out that at least 'eco fan' makes uneven heat, more left or more right. Since I didn't use fan mode for bread before I'll try that and see how it goes :) Thanks for the video!
Fab video!
Any recommendation for a good counter-top convection electric oven ? I have been looking at the SHARP Healsio which has a steam function but is rather costly.
Thank you so much for taking the time out to fulfill our questions....
Satisfied as always ❤️💞God bless you with all things beautiful 🎉🎉🎉
Just wondering I have read that you should reduce temp by 25 degrees (than what recipe calls for) if using convection. Also, it will bake faster to watch the time. Is this true? Loved your video. I subscribed obv
I have the option to turn my fan off and I really recommend you do when you put the bread in or the fan blows all the heat out the door. Drops 20'C with the fan on and only 10'C with it off.
Thanks, sounds so obvious now. Mine blasts steam out when I open the door, definitely will give this a go 👍
My convection oven is an option too. I tend to not use it, especially when making bread. I would think the blowing would tend to dry things out.
Robin, I'd recommend you get a baking steel. It has awesome heat retention so your temperature doesn't drop a lot when you open the door :)
i have a conventional gas oven, and it bakes wonderful bread.
Just one more comment for first time steamers: If you are steaming up your oven and it’s an under bench one, turn your face away as you open the door. There will be a blast of very hot, damp air and it could scald if you’re too close.
I tried cooking with the heating elements and the fan off, it ended up looking like it had been grilled. top burnt bottom raw. I'll try experimenting, will try dropping it the tray to the bottom of the oven and see how it goes.
Hey Jack. I've been trying to bake choux buns & they get burnt at bottom & collapse. I have bottom, top, both bottom -Top heating modes with a fan that I can switch on. Should i use only bottom heating rod with fan or should I use both top & bottom rods?
Subscribed!
I finally got my convection oven and it does have have steam vents and is not closed. Is there a way to close a vent to an oven? Thanks
Can you bake multiple racks on convection oven? Say I wanna use 3 racks to cook a lot of burger buns at the same time on convection oven
whats the setting for baking pizza is it both up and down rod on or only down rod setting?
I loved my experiment with sourdough bread and I'll probably go back to it but I've taken a break for a while because I decided to go keto for a while at least and then I'll see how it goes. But sourdough rocks.
Hi Jack, thanks for the great video. My question is what's the best way(s) to check if the seal is a "good seal enough to puff your face with steam once you open it. lol. at the appliance store?
When I look at my oven, I can see the seal around the front, without any gaps. So check that at least.
Can you kindly guide me about the baking settings for a fan assisted oven . I have a Siemens oven but haven’t had success with baking. The cakes rise and fall back. Breads don’t get cooked properly from the bottom. Even pizza crust stays raw from the bottom while the top gets nicely cooked. Please help. Thank you 🙏🏻🙏🏻
Jack what's the correct temperature for shortbread
Jack, thank you for the tip. One thing though, if you want to upgrade for a semiprofessional oven witch one do you recomend? To bake 4 to 10 loafs of sourdough
Sorry Gabriel, I’m not sure about stuff like that 🤷🏼♂️
In case anyone else is looking (a year later) it seems the Rofco B-series ovens are ideal for micro bakeries.
The chance that he has an oven where you can’t turn the fan off is very unlikely. He probably just turns the control knob from off to fan and back to off, and has never used any of the other settings. The only ovens with fans that can’t be turned off are fan fryer ovens. Even dirt cheap fan ovens have grill and a couple of other modes where the fan is off.
I have a fan assisted oven. I feel like my turkish bread or croissant come out abit crispy. I read online that you can put a little pan of hot water at the bottom for moisture. I haven't tried that, has anyone tried?
What about my Kamado? I mean I’m going to bake bread in it on Sunday regardless but I still would like your take.m
We have a double oven, one gas fan the other is conventional (no fan). I always bake bread in the fan oven. For non-bread items, ie, tray bakes etc, I prefer no fan.
My dogs ears pricked up when you whistled, as it's the same whistle sound we make for her to come to us 😂 x
How come every time I watch his video I couldn’t find an answer but more questions?
There is no answer Vivienne. The answer is practice 👊🏻
I know right?
How much do you adjust the temperature in recipes for a conventional oven?
Conventional ovens are typically 25°F over the convention one. So if a recipe requires for a certain temperature in a traditional/conventional oven, but you’ve got a convection, reduce it by 25°F
I made pizza, bottom is undercooked. I really need to use fan next time I make it
What about gas convection versus electric convection?
Fan isn't a good choice if you make a bread in open container, it will dry it. It would need to be as you said, sealed off, creating a closed cycle, where it recirculate the same air.
new here but this topic is exactly what I found out about my new oven. Fan is horrible to medium size oven, it dried out everything quickly. 😫 Soft bread became hard bread. Rustic bread became stones.
I need help 😭 I've been given a double full gas convection oven and I can figure out how to get it to bake my loves nicely.
If you only have an electric oven with no fan, should you increase the temperature for the simple loaf recipe from 200c to something like 220c and keep the same timing or how would you adjust?
I have no fan and pre hear for an hour at max to get it as even as pos. It's sitting near 260 when I am happy to put my bread in for 20min then i back it off to 230c for 15-20min more.
But that's my oven
Hope that helps.
Jack, my fan oven has a vent and it literally ejects steam out of that vent it is behind the hobs. When cooking some stuff there is steam constantly pouring out of it. There is no home for me! Haha.
You should bake in a pot or a dutch oven. No steam will escape there :)
@@Foodgeek Would it take longer for the inside of a pot or dutch oven to heat up?
@@Krytern I usually heat it for an hour just make sure it's super warm, but the point is that the steam will stay inside, thus steaming your bread :)
@@Foodgeek Thanks for the tip mate I have a stockpot somewhere I'll see if it fits in my oven and if it does I'll give this a try.
Krytern just make sure it seals properly. You can always insulate the lid with some foil 😁
Hi my oven has three choices, no fan, fan and fan forced. Would love your thoughts
Me too
Just discovered your tip channel - I'm trying to learn how to make a true sourdough loaf bread - mixed results so far. I've only been doing it for about a month now. I have an Electrolux oven with all kinds of settings - even a bread proofing setting 85 to 100 F so I can use or not use a fan if I choose. Very tight seals - I get a blast of moisture on almost everything I bake or roast when I open the door. I've tried both with and without the fan and don't see much difference. My biggest difficulty is getting the rise out of the bread that I think I should be getting. I'm not getting the nice high crown that a loaf should have. Will adding a pan of water in the bottom of the oven help get the rise that I'm looking for? Can anyone help me with this? I don't know where I'm going wrong. Thanks Jack.
HIGH HEAT for a booster but it’s more about how fermented your dough is. Try video 76 and 80 they might help 👌🏻
Sheesh whadda great informational videao. I first thought not much of it, just the baker kid who sweeps the bakery floor ;-) Nah just kiddin bro that was some great in depth informational emotional professional talk man, apprecitate that. Excuse me i'm gonna bake some spuds now.
Jack: I nearly turned off your video because you were talking like a child addressing an audience of children. I stuck with it, and as you calmed down I could hear your wisdom. Thank you. I'm not sure why CZcams presenters think they have to act this way. Perhaps it's because usually the content is not interesting so they feel they have to get attention by other means. I don't think you need to do this because your material seems to be interesting and intelligent. It would be a shame if people switched off because they were irritated by your delivery.
Thank you for your video. The information was just what I was looking for.
Jack delivery is just what we children need, as of now (Dec/2021) Jack has almost 200K subscribed children that attest of that. I am one of those children, albeit a 65yo one 😃
@@pasajecolon5168 You make a very fair point. Thank you for your reply.
U didn't talk about what does a fan actually do to your product and what does no over does to the same product to be able to compare and understand.
Which oven is best for baking sponge cakes? With fan or without fan. Please tell me.
Not my area of expertise I’m afraid, sorry!
Without fan
what do you mean flip my life upside down 😂
I have a conventional gas oven and it's very problematic for baking bread. It has two vents at the back and therefore is very efficient at removing steam from the oven. Doesn't matter how many trays of water or rolled up towels I put in the oven it just doesn't retain enough of the steam. The base of the bread is always undercooked, even using a (hot!) pizza stone doesn't solve it. The only way I've obtained professional looking results is using a pyrex dish (Dutch oven technique), even then I have to turn the bread upside down for the last 5 minutes. There's often a way to get around things. I may invest in a very thick oven steel and use my steel mixing bowl as a cloche. That actually may cook the base without having to flip the bread. I hear they are pretty good for pizzas too.
`Dutch Oven` is the way to go... it`s been my saviour anyway....
Small mistake, a convection oven is a conventional oven, a fan oven is not a convection oven. Convection is where air circulates due to the hot air rising, and cool air falling, this is why the top is hot and the bottom is cool.
Hi Jack, this isn’t connected with this but I know you read these messages. Can you let me know why there aren’t any bread tins for sale in your shop please.
Can u give a recipe of bread
My sourdough bread in the convection oven is always undercooked at the bottom. Can you please help me!!! I only have a convection over. A panasonic one.
Preheat your baking stone to “well hot” 👌🏻
@@Bakewithjack - How long would you recommend to preheat a baking stone? I've heard the recommended time is at least 30 minutes but an hour is better. If an hour, would you leave the dough in the fridge until ready to bake? (Because your article says to take out the dough before you preheat the oven.)
My oven can be either. However, when using convection it drops the temperature 25 degrees (Fahrenheit). I can turn that off, but never knew if on or off was better. Thoughts?
Try them both 🤷🏼♂️ your oven is being (too) clever by automatically advising (and doing it for you) turning down the heat if you bake with the fan.
Where can I take my oven out for dinner?
a Nice Italian or Mexican place is always good. Just don’t cheap out, or go too fancy. The point is to get to know your oven, not try to dazzle it by making it think your loaded.
Where is the time stamp for the answer?
My 7 year old just asked me if there was ovens when I was little... I'm 34 next month
Was there? 😂 (joke I’m 35 🤫)
you cannot buy an oven without a fan now days
I have 100 dollar oven ..
just google the definition of convection oven...
My oven does not a fan
My electric fan oven cooks perfect bread.
Actually I bake a cake in my convection oven sets to 180 centigrade and it takes a 2 hour to cook an egg pie🤣🤣🤣 where did I do wrong
Inner temperature in oven may be wrong. Mine has this problem because my ordinary dinner rolls/buns will never be brown at 180 then I got myself an oven thermometer and found out the inner temp in the oven is way different from settings.
Better ecological fan
Good boy, nice to hear you talking sense. Yeah I'm going to stay in for dinner with my oven though. Hey everyone, eat your crusts use your loaf. Praise our heavenly father God Holy God and heavenly mother God Holy Spirit to please your soul.
Enjoy our daily bread brothers and sisters. A38man Amen. Charlie Ososami.
Peace
I can barely hear this even with my headphones in and the volume all the way up
Nothing I understood bro
Can you speak a little slower to understand your talking my english is not very good . Please
Thanx mr. Jack
ammar Alhassan ouch, am English and still have a hard time following. I repeat it over and over.
You can slow down the playback speed - click the three vertical dots at the top right 😊
You can turn on subtitles too, might help
Click the "CC" right side under the video. The "CC" will add automatic subtitles. It won't go slower, but you can also read what he is saying.
Hilary Vines Thanks😊 I learn new thing with your comment