Avocados aren't vegan?? - BBC
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
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Watch the BBC first on iPlayer 👉 bbc.in/iPlayer... Sandi Toksvig has some rather startling news for vegans everywhere as she delves into the public and the private with Alan Davies, Victoria Coren Mitchell, Phill Jupitus and Bridget Christie.
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For context, Bridget Christie, the woman who says "Oh God" and who they change the picture for, said she has a phobia of clusters of holes (like close together), i.e. like what you might see in a hive/honeycomb, she even mentioned hives as an example. That's why everybody is laughing, because it's ironic that a hive/holes came up.
FYI it's called trypophobia
It's certainly not the stupidest phobia I've heard of.
Trypophobia is actually fairly common. I would imagine it has something to do with that kind of shape pattern being subconsciously associated with contagious skin diseases and infections or maybe even poisonous plants, possibly an evolutionary trait, similar to arachnophobia.
A very famous ( or should I say infamous) photoshopped pic of the lotus flower has given me this phobia. Don't google it. Really.
@@rossyoung8892 or dangerous bees nests of course...
The problem with having a phobia like that is that, when you try to Google it for a solution, you're bombarded with images which terrify you. When I was getting over my arachnophobia, Google decided to show me all the most horrendous close-ups and biggest spiders it could find. One of the first ones was a demotivating poster titled "Arachnophobia - now you had it". Thanks. 😢
Google is just trying to help you with exposure therapy.
Trypophobia is a superpower, actually. Research Victor Grebennikov's "Cavity Structural Effect". It's related to antigravity and he wrote extensively about it. The curled spaces of wasps'/bees' hives allow them to feel these effects to assist in the return to the hives. In humans, this "sixth sense" feeling of antigravitational regions involves something called synesthesia, a crosswiring of the brain. You likely have a small amount of this capability but it is probably too small of an amount of neural connectivity for you to know about it.
@@justincase5228 bee hives do not create antigravity.
@@conorstewart2214 You're just in the orbit of Big Honey.
@@justincase5228 I googled Victor Grebennikov's "Cavity Structural Effect", and tried to read an article about it. But I am not bright enough to understand it at all :/ But thank you, once I've read it five or so times, I think it will be very interesting. I love bees! It seems like every other month or so I get to discover that they have yet another superpower!
I remember on the Simpsons there was a reference to a level 5 vegan and that was somebody who won't eat anything that casts a shadow.
It was in the episode 'Lisa the Tree Hugger - S12E04' Jesse Grass (played by Joshua Jackson) said that.
I remember a mister pickles episode where he ripped the vegans throats out when they threaten his human mom .
czcams.com/video/qCq4uMYcymU/video.html better than the simpsons
@@shanekonarson
Unavailable
@lyco46 Plants are living beings and they do suffer as well. Bummer.
i have an American friends who had an avocado farm near San Diego, and he realised that he could double his profits by switching his farming practice to "organic". In America this meant buying chicken shit from a neighbouring egg farm and, as he delicately put it, "they ain't runnin' around after free range chickens with a pooper scooper". According to the excellent (if academic) book "Compassion By The Pound" any product which involves the farming of chickens is inherently the cruelest food you can eat. And that makes organic avocados even more problematic for vegans than conventionally farmed avocados.
0:37 Bridget Christie has declared previous in this show that she can't look at holes and one audience member agreed.
this makes more sense to you if you havent seen the whole show.
I guess she can't stand looking at Trump.
@@justayoutuber1906
It's called Trypophobia, and it's only clusters of holes that affects those afflicted. A single a-hole doesn't affect her.
I was going to ask or scan the comments to see if she had trypophobia, seems like she does.
As a true vegan I only lick salt for nutrition
But salt has a shadow my friend - you need to be varying your diet and switching to air moisture. Just as nutritious, less cruelty towards the salt mother.
@@emilydibb6320 oh dear, air moisture is a no go too as it has methane molecules from farmed cattle in its structure..
What's funny about that is, while vegans HATE you using bees or other animals to get food, they don't seem to mind abusing Mexicans in similar ways. Who do you think digs all that salt?
@@JK-vp2ux Vegans don't care about people, only other animals. Supposedly.
Better not use sea salt, as it has been consumed and released by fish.
There are avocado trees in garden s allaround South Africa and Zimbabwe. The bees find them naturally, and the trees are so loaded with avocados that your friends beg you to help yourself to avos
I was just gonna say, we don't really have that problem here in South Africa 😅
If they were my friends, I'd eat nothing BUT avocados! I adore them!
Same in New Zealand!
Thats again just some stupid american problem because americans do american stuff and always have to massproduce everything, destroy everything which would be just a little bit natural or sustainable and try to make the biggest profit out of it.
Muuricaaa 🤘🏼🦅🇺🇸
Well I've grown cucumbers and melons on my allotment in the past, and I never shipped in a lorry-load of bees. Does that mean I was growing vegan-friendly fruit without realising it?
Yes
@Mario What's so funny? I'm confused as hell 😂
How do you think you were able to buy the seeds in the first place.. magic ??
Yes & this is why it's good to look for locally produced food, it's often FAR more ethical to just use common sense practical options for obtaining healthy food than to go with silly buzz words like "vegan" that actually cause huge harm
Only if you didn't at the time realize that the fruit you were selling was vegan which I doubt
Anytime there's a thumbnail in which Sandi has her head down in her hands you know you HAVE to watch the video.
On a small scale - wild bees and bumblebees could pollinate an avocado tree, true?
Apparently the girl who said oh god has that fear of holes
Thanks for the information comment section
I thought she was having a depression attack because she saw bees in a box
An I thought she was taking the piss of the Vegans who would object to bees in boxes.
Yep, trypophobia is a thing
To people saying that this is ridiculous and no vegans are this strict, I think the point is many vegans do refuse to eat honey or anything with beeswax. The bees used to pollinate these plants on a large scale are kept in worse, less natural conditions than those used for honey so to eat these products is somewhat hypocritical if you then refuse to eat honey.
This is obviously not all vegans but I've definitely heard more extreme statements (such as 'I won't use this cleaning product because it's been tested on animals' when it's been tested on water fleas to ensure that it wouldn't damage ecosystems if any of the product happened to get into the environment, so the testing is actually for the benefit of animals).
@lyco46
Wait, but dogs have to eat meat, so that means if you keep a dog, you are evil. If you keep a cat, you are evil. Or is it OK, because it is in kibble form, and thus it's polite to starve all dogs and all cats because chickens in the kibble are dying. Unless you *gasp* go for the beef kibble. Why not, by this logic stop breeding cats and dogs altogether?
Your use of logic misses key components.
Also, just pointing out, the manure used to grow your vegetables often comes from the cows you say you can't eat the milk of. From their butts, you get to eat their produce, or from their utters.
The labor comes from humans. Every food you have eaten has a moral problem with it. Coffee? What about fair trade and the choking out of local farmers to be able to grow staple crops?
Quinoa? Don't you know the problems it created in Bolivia?
legumes and berries: Who picks them?
Avocados? They are one of the worst environmental destructors, especially if you're talking UK's demand of them.
Sugar... slavery.
bananas? banana wars.
Name a food that's not touched by controversy, and you'll have a hard time of it. Who do you want to exploit? Animals? Humans? As long as their skin is brown, you don't care? None of us are untouched by capitalism in our food. It does more to understand where the food comes from. You can't argue veganism has less environmental impact than meat eating. Both industries are problematic. And even if you say, go organic, you have to think about poverty, price points, etc. It's not an easy one-solution-fits all problem.
@lyco46 That doesn't mean that you, as a vegan, are above and more moral either. It also means that you should be aware of where your food comes from and the environmental impacts overall, rather than declaring that veganism is just more environmentally friendly and more ethical. You're willing to take farm labor and also ignore the rest of my post.
Honey and beeswax is made by bees for bees. It's not for humans.
This is what happens when a non-vegan tries to empathise with vegans. Water fleas are individuals. Beasts are not collectives. All animals have the right to not be kidnapped, enslaved, exploited, raped, tortured, and murdered.
They are in the same haves they use for honey
Beekeepers that move their hived so so not just to pollinate crops, but to keep the bees healthy and away from extreme weather. They also collect honey from the same hives that are used to transport the bees. There is literally nothing inhumane about the practice, and it's been done for thousands of years. There are many parts of the developed world where the natural bee population has declined so much due to pollution and habitat destruction that without kept bees there would be almost no food produced.
Capt Kirk: "Mr Spock, what do we know about this planet's inhabitants?"
Mr Spock: "We know that they are not 'vegan'."
Capt Kirk: "How do we know that?"
Mr. Spock: "Well, we've been in orbit for five minutes, and they haven't told us they were."
Well, if those are their rules. They can consume Bolivian Avocados, i can asure you that we dont use the bees in that way in my country, we have a lot of insects that do that work.
I have trypophobia too and while honey comb doesn't trigger me, I understand the icky feeling she's getting.
I am trypophobic too but, my exceptions are for food, like crumpets, etc 😅 the honeycomb doesnt trigger me
I think it would be harsh to include "not moving bees around" in a vegan checklist
That's quite shocking to see that level of misinformation on British television..... These practices are not common in Europe, and don't exist in some countries. Yes it's a huge thing in the USA, but I can guaranty you that butternut squash and melon in France don't require any bee transport, same for almond in Sicilia, avocado can be an ecological disaster in some countries but naturally grows in most back garden in French overseas region (Guadeloupe for example). We grow Kiwi in Brittany, again without bees..... That has nothing to do with veganism....
Avocado: the other green meat! 😂
What an avocado and Hulk have in common?
Couldn'tCare Less
A hard flaky seed inside? 😂😂😂
Dr. Suess didn’t mention that!!😵
Avocado tree needs the same amount of water as a cow !
🤣🤣🤣
I'm actually a bee-gan. I *only* eat food that relies on the enslavement of bees. Unfortunately that means I can't drink water ...
i saw the thumbnail for this video and thought it was gordon ramsey!
Lmao same! I'm subbed to him so thought he posted a new video 😋
Loool me too
I am vegan. I honestly am not that strict. Although my first thought is they probably have to ship in bees because the plants are grown near highly populated areas where they are pests. Essentially they breed and ship in bees to their death. Most of those foods grow on trees and cultivating new tree farms away from highly populated areas would be too costly. I'm sort of just guessing why that might be unethical. First seek to understand.
Why can they not have more bee keepers though near by? Why can they not have bees on the farms themselves? At least locally?
bees actually thrive in towns and cities because there is less pestisides
@@michaelmather7352 less pesticides?
@@tilasole3252 yes on farms everything is treated ,crops , fruit trees , etc
@@michaelmather7352 what about the wilds?
I don't think people in the comments understand what was being said in the video. Using bees to pollinate isn't the issue, the issue is that the bees are being used in an inhuman way to pollinate most farmed fruits and vegetables, which contradicts one of the main reasons why vegans eat only vegetables.
exactly! They also seem to be ignoring the fact that this practice is one of the main reasons honey needs to be removed from the hives, both because of the weight it adds & because the bees don't get a winter to eat it, as they are moved to warm areas to work all winter. Therefore, if they are ok with this, they need to also be ok with eating honey, as collecting it is just a requirement of managing the bees, like mucking out a horse's stable if keeping it for riding, basic, required animal husbandry
1. Regarding bees, it's worth noting that if they didn't like things, they could literally fly away.
2. Question for the vegans - If you think moving pollinators is inhumane, how do you feel about the thousands of "pest" animals that are eradicated on nearly every farm during agricultural production?
There is no eating without death.
@@swh114 Exactly, Mr. Carnist.
Just keep going, eat your dead animals.
It’s not like that we have science making the world a better one without suffering. Just keep going, eat your dead animals from factory farming.
@@iche9373 okay. We will. Enjoy your vegetables that require intentionally killing thousands of mammals to protect crop yields. Your salad is very bloody.
The plant food industry doesn't kill,
but your meat industry does.
Meat production are is energy-intensive, and about 80% of agricultural land goes to meat production, but only accounts for about 20% of daily caloric intake.
your meat production also accelerates climate change, which indirectly murders countless people, whether through floods, pandemics, etc.
So much for your moral mendacity.
Avocados evolved to be propagated specifically by giant ground sloths.
The real problem with the huge increase in avocado consumption is that it is leading large deforestation and illness.
Forests destroyed in Mexico for the avocado cultivation.
The chemicals used to protect the crop are causing health problems for the local population.
real problem is animal agriculture but because it's so wide spread and there's a lot of cognitive dissonances people will blame stuff like avocados, which are still a problem but no where near of a big one as animal agriculture. go plant-based for the environment, it's one of the single biggest individual change you can make.
@@devvyas6751 Absolute nonsense thinking. Do you think the kind of people who cut down forests to ranch cattle wouldn't cut down forests in order to grow crops? Do you believe that artificial fertilisers are better for soil health than animal manure? Do you stop to consider how many insects, small animals and birds are killed every year to 'protect' those plants you believe are better? Do you seriously believe that highly processed 'plant-based' foods are better for your health than more natural products (and yes, I'm aware that some meat products are also highly processed) when year in, year out nutrition experts tell us not to consume so much processed food? Do you believe that products such as 'almond milk' which requires around 76 litres of water in order to produce 1 litre of 'milk' are better than natural milk?
There's an ethical cost to everything. Avocados are worse than most vegetables due to the amount of water required to farm them. There are similar problems with almonds, and even rice unfortunately. Some vegans avoid rice for this reason. I'm not vegan but it is great for the environment to cut down on dairy as well these foods I've mentioned, though meat is still the worst offender.
haha if you are concerned about the ethical costs behind avocados then going vegan is a moral obligation
@@devvyas6751 Just because someone concerned about an ethical cost to something doesn't mean one is morally obligated not to pay the cost.
@@ddegn if you are concerned about it that means you wish to change for the more ethical. Comparing morally, animal agriculture is far worse than avocadoes, and this is quite obvious when you look into it. Therefore if you have morals and believe in being ethical, then it is a moral obligation to be vegan.
@@devvyas6751 "if you are concerned about it that means you wish to change for the more ethical."
No it doesn't.
Words mean things.
If one is concerned, it means they are worried, troubled, or anxious. People can be concerned without wishing to change anything.
@@ddegn are you saying that people don't want to change and get out of a state of "worried, troubled or anxiety"? Can you give an example of where someone is concerned and completely fine to not better their position if possible, so they're no longer concerned?
They always do that to poor Bridget, I feel for her, I’ve got quite a pronounced phobia and I know it makes no sense, but you can’t help the ‘sick in the gut’ reaction, and some wa**er will always start chucking every one they can at you ‘for the lolz’ once they find out.
I don't know why people laugh at phobias, it's not as if we asked for them or control how our gut feels about them. I am absolutely petrified of larger spiders- just this past week there have been 3 MASSIVE spiders in my home which has never happened before. They appeared at night and I have since been struggling to go to the loo during the night or move from the bed until my other half has put the bedroom, hall and bathroom lights on 😂 My partner had to trap them under drinking glasses which I then proceeded to mark with a permanent marker so I know never to use them again! I don't know why but my spider phobia has only intensified as I've grown older.
In this case I don't think it was deliberate, I think the images had been planned ahead of time
I genuinely read your comment as some waiter… and have no idea what word you censored
I thought the thumbnail was Gordon Ramsay shaking his head in despair of the absurdity of the topic.
Same
lol he himself acknowledges the demand for plant based cuisines now. we got him making vegan meals on his TikTok :p
So the veg on my allotment is more vegan than in the shops! Cool.
Bruh no food is vegan, everything depends on the ecosystem to be grown so whatever you eat, an animal has contributed to it
But not forcibly so as in migratory beekeeping. The bees are starved and then released into a segregated area, where they gorge on the target crop. They are then starved again before use on the next crop. So it is exploitative and cruel to the bees and treats them as a commodity, which is against vegan rules.
@@clioaspinade9275 You should run for office. You already have the nonsense eloquently lined up. Have you seen bees in chains being forced to pollinate against their will? Also, bees do not starve, except at the end of the winter. During summer they have that nutritious stuff they put in the beehive they feed on. They are never left without it. Otherwise they instinctively go out daily to gather food. They are 24/7 workers, and no one other than their genetic code forces them to do that.
@@sorellman I answer two comments and suddenly I am political! You are a hypocrite as you have done exactly the same thing. I have already answered your objections elsewhere, unlike you I will not repeat myself to the same audience.
@@sorellman geez you're ignorant on this topic!
It's just abuse we have a problem with. If you could ban child slavery you would, right? and we don't really want animal slavery. You can disagree with vegans about killing all you want but I bet you agree that factory farming and all animal abuse should be banned... but it isn't. We just don't see most of it.
I am vegan and this is absolutely and utterly non-sense. Bees pollinate most plant foods. The keeping of bees is for many reasons unethical. Honey bees are not the only bees, and bees are not the only pollinators. There are also lady bugs, moths, butterflies, wasps, beetles, lizards, flies, and ants. Some plants are also pollinated by hand, or more likely, a cotton swab. There are also solitary 'wild' bee species, and other hiving species that pollinate all sorts of crops of their free-will. Many bee-keepers cannot afford to keep bees simply for the sale of honey, so they rent out their hives to farms. Hives of honey bees create honey for their own food, the keepers take some of the honey from the hives, which prevents the bees from swarming, which in turn very negatively affects the bee population. Swarming is something which occurs when the colony is well-established, and in nature it's typically yearly. The queen flies away to give birth to a new hive, leaving the old hive to raise a new queen. This increases the population. There are other commonplace hugely unethical practices that take place which harm the bees such as taking large amounts of honey, and leaving them with syrup (leaving them prone to illness), or poor breading which leads to increased susceptibility to disease. I have a veganic permaculture garden, and I have also volunteered on avocado farms. I have never ever seen forced labor from bees.
I am happily married to some one who equally shares my interest in facts. Our first date was indeed interesting though.
If you apply "no exploitation of insects" rule to your veganism, you'd need to remove many, many more plant products, that usually have some insects involved as pests.
If the animal naturally fertilizes the flower that produces the fruit, it shouldn't be considered vegan because the animal is not harmed or harvested to acquire a body part or something produced in the body for consumption, unless I've misinterpreted the meaning of vegan.
I don't think that that's true everywhere in the world - that they bring in huge trucks of bees to pollinate avocados, etc.
I've not ever seen that, and I've lived in farming, avocado country in New Zealand. I've lived in Hawaii and Florida ... still have not seen that. Besides, I would consider those foods vegan, as I take it as far as is practical and possible.
Interesting how New Zealand has minimal colony collapse disorder killing bees isn't it, no doubt linked to the lesser bee movements. I have no idea the numbers on ccd in Hawaii, Florida is effected though, the migratory bees are moved there over winter to keep working
Those vegetables didnt look like that originally. They were genetically mutated by humans to look a certain way and for them to be edible. Their early versions are not ediblez
@@dennisvillaflor3359 no, they are edible, just a lot less appealing
On such small islands as Hawaii you dont often need to move bees, just set up a hive every so often and everything will be good, on smaller patches of isolated land (i.e. an island or oasis) there is often little need to move colonies because they are easily covered by the territories of hives, that's not the case for most mainland farming. I would be willing to bet though that for some farms on the islands in question there is still a need for artificial colonies, they may just be kept by the farmers themselves so there is no need to move them
All large scale farming involves killing lots of animals, whether directly with cattle and so forth, or indirectly through protecting crops from pests, or even more indirectly from habitat destruction.
I've never met the "VEGANS!!!!!" people complain about so much, never seen hide nor hair of them, and I've known lots of vegans (usually I didn't know until we went out to a restaurant or had food at a gathering). I've tried eating their way, and it's mostly pretty good. It improved my health, introduced me to a lot of foods I never knew I would like - and if it didn't forbid me so many other foods I know I like, I'd gladly stick with it. Given that large-scale livestock agriculture is provably an ecological disaster, it's probably the best way any individual can make a difference in "saving the planet", and given that diets with lots of animal products (meat, dairy, eggs) are provably less healthful than diets with few animal products it's probably also a good way to improve health AND reduce healthcare costs especially in countries with national health services (for example, cardiovascular disease basically doesn't exist in people eating only plant-based diets, but is one of the top ten killers of everybody else - even cancers, which are extraordinarily expensive to treat, are less common in populations who eat less animal-based diets).
I've never understood why so many people get their panties in a bunch over vegans. They're not doing anything bad as far as I can tell (except maybe "slowly getting vitamin B12 deficiency"), and they've always been nice enough to me.
The B12 deficiency thing isn't really a problem, either, except among uninformed vegans. They know to get plant-derived B12 and add it to their diet.
It's not like cats, who need taurine (I think) which doesn't really have any viable non-meat sources. Best you can do is "almost vegan" cat food made from plants with added taurine.
I will never be vegan, if they are so strict on what they can eat. Much like I will never be Jewish or Muslim? No bacon you say... EVER!? Yea, no. If there was only one type of meat I would eat, for better or worse it would be bacon. But I've been vegetarian before. It wasn't too hard... Except for giving up bacon...
But I digress. Most of these VEGANs you refer to are on social media. And vegans are not all can't have this or that due to bees or burned forests, etc. As long as it is not meat or a meat by product/dairy, they consider themselves vegan.
Those vegans definitely exist. I've met many. They aren't bad people, they're usually just overexcited about their new worldview and a little naive- they tend to be college age.
Also, large scale agriculture in general is an ecological disaster. Whether the land is cleared for cattle or almonds, the land still gets cleared. Establishing mono-crop fields is terrible for the wildlife and the land itself. But we have 8 billion people to feed and gathering natural food sources isn't gonna cut it.
I'm also going to have to push back on the diet argument. Cardiovascular health and cancer rates are still only tentatively linked to consumption of animal products. The only strong correlation seems to be with heavy red meat diets. Chicken, pork, and fish consumption, along with dairy and eggs, show very little correlation with chronic illness. These studies also tend to ignore that large vegetarian populations tend to live in predominately pre-industrial communities. They do have much lower rates of cancer and cardiovascular disease, but they also have higher infant mortality rates likely skewing the numbers even further. There are a few long-lived vegetarian communities, but there is evidence that points to their genetics and environment have just as much to do with this. Also, not all long-lived communities are vegetarian or vegan. There really isn't much to say that a balanced vegetarian or vegan diet is generally any more healthy for you than a balanced omnivorous diet. Some people might refer to that as a flexitarian diet.
And I just noticed this comment is 4 years old. Sending it anyway!
@@porkcracklins630 Mediterranean seems to be one of the better diets. They do eat meat, but also a lot of other things. And the meat they consume are regulated and raised better. I have no doubt that eating tons of dairy and meat is bad for you. But some people act like you are taking years off your life by having a steak. That's not how it works. Every meat eater would not make it past twenty if that was the case. You just have to eat well and in moderation among other things. I would not center my diet around meat per say, but a side should be ok.
There's no good proof about how bad meat farming is for the environment. It varies massively on what type of farming it is, what the animals eat amd where that food is grown. The worst farming from an ecological point of view is monocrop. Especially palm oil, avocado, and other habitat destructive crops. Mangroves which are essential marine nurseries are destroyed at a horrifying rate to grow avocados. Orangutan habitat destroyed at an industrial pace to grow pal oil trees. Forget the hype, and politics, look at the science.
If strict vegans get on their soapbox, my argument is that unless they have a 100% organic diet, they are being hypocrites. My reasoning is that crops such as (non-organic) wheat and vegetables involve the use of many insecticides and other pesticides. For example, a loaf of bread may be made from a wind-pollinated cereal crop, but millions of insects will have been poisoned to produce that wheat crop. To me, that is much worse than eating honey that has been produced by manipulating bee colonies or figs that have been pollinated by a wasp.
For the record, I am virtually vegetarian, only eating meat very occasionally due to a family history of iron and B12 deficiencies. If there is a choice, I always buy organic dairy and vegetables, regardless of the price difference (to support organic growers). I do eat a lot of cheese and milk and also eat eggs. I buy processed soya and Quorn products. That processing will involve the use of a lot of finite resources. I try not to preach, as I admit that I am a hypocrite, and I do feel guilty about the male calves and chicks that are slaughtered, as they are not needed for the dairy and egg industries.
Food miles is another dilemma. The food industry is based on oil, so there is no easy answer and the middle-men and big supermarkets have us all by the proverbial short and curlies. Growing your own fruit and vegetables and eating sustainably grown/sourced meat (or catching your own fish) can help to relieve the stranglehold that the food industry has on us all.
Apologies to any trypophobiacs who feel that my logic is full of holes.
Avocados are shit for the environment anyway, growing them in Mexico
(probably exploiting Mexican workers for a low wage), and then cooling
them and transporting them thousands of miles around the world in large
ships just so you can eat something that tastes like lawn clippings on
toast.
Almonds are mostly grown in California and require endless quantities of water, something California can't spare at the best of times. Again, travelled around the world just so you can have your non-soy milk alternative etc.
Grow your own vegetables if you've got the space for it, even if it only offsets a small amount of what you need.
i eat meat and vegetables.. But treating animals abusively is disgusting like a damn factory product. Animals should be treated honorably.
How are you getting those meats?
Are you going and hunting these animals without hurting them? Or you're eating the dead one?
Or they themselves come and sit on your pan?
Which of these logical way you eat meat without hurting or abusing animals?
Animals are individuals. Not products. They are so eager to live and to be treated as a living being with respect. Nobody have right over anyone else's body.
Animals are our friends.
"Stun the child and then kill it, it's humane and painless"
@Jon Seymour Eat yourself arse. Find profit that way. Be a man and use brain to understand.
Only salt from the highest peak of the Himalayas is truly vegan
Even worse they use an inordinate amount of water that results in huge avocado farms compromising the supply to local towns and villages
Ah, I thought it was just about what you eat, not what role animals played in its production. Interesting. What about use of an animal to pull a plow in a field for vegetables?
It' a game show and this is an example of fallacy in reasoning , which is often employed by attorneys in court to sway a jury's verdict by putting claims and evidence together in persuasive ways. Firstly, it makes the assumption there are degrees of veganism. Strict vegan? Using an adjective gives a negative connotation to the reader. Secondly, a conclusion is drawn that the process of pollination for fruits and vegetations is the same as regurgitation and enzyme activity for honey production. And then continues to make an assumption transporting bees for pollination is "unnatural way" yet honeybees are natural pollinators. They aren't forced to pollinate. Nothing unnatural about pollination whether it is done in a 'migratory' method or not. What the question really highlights is the problems with commercial agriculture and the need to feed an unsustainable growing population.
There very much are degrees of veganism. The video did not claim that honey making was the same process. And putting an animal in special cramped boxes and transporting them via human means to places they would never go on their own in times of year where they would normally be hibernating is indeed unnatural.
That doesn't mean that you can't be a vegan and disagree. But your arguments are not good ones.
ZipplyZane, there is nothing unvegan about transporting animals, and bees are not 'kept' in cramped boxes. They can fly away whenever they want. They just don't swarm because their honey is stolen from them, so they stay to produce more. The bees are not used as forced labor. They pollinate of their own free will. Steeling honey is very much the same process and the root of the problem. It reduces the other-all bee population, since the bees do not swarm, which causes the demand for the use of farmed honey bees as pollinators in the first place. They are not the only pollinators.
Just looked it up. Apparently the only boxes used are the hives, so you're right that they aren't more cramped. However, they are apparently usually sealed in for transport, and usually smoked to sedate them and keep them calm.
This is the definition of cheap shots, would have expected better of a Humanist. The idea of ridiculing people for trying to make the world a better place is appalling.
@@BuildinWings the use of bees is currently unavoidable, any one interested in animal welfare or food who doesn't know about modern pollination really isn't paying attention. This won't change habits, justs gives people the opportunity to make smug comments to people trying to make a difference by changing the way they eat.
@@brekerr No, the use of bees is totally avoidable if you change your diet to one more efficient and accept that not every food will be available all the time year round.
@@eleSDSU so what are your suggestions for a none insect pollinated diet?
@@brekerr firstly, the issue is not pollination, is abusing bees, those are two different things, some plants are pollinated by mosquitos, flies, bats, ants, waps, birds, etc. and without harming them, the issue is harm, not insect pollination. Secondly, most staples food are not insect pollinated, they are self-pollinated or wind-pollinated, like rice, corn, potatoes, tomatoes, peaches, soy, etc. so it's not really a big problem, the problem is that people don't know and don't care how their food came to be, we are eating irresponsibly and even if you don't care about animal cruelty you should care about producing enough food for everyone. Lastly a joke, do you know what's the difference between ignorance and apathy? I don't know and I don't care.
there is no such thing as vegan food, we fertilise fields with fish, blood & bonemeal and animal manure.Vegans deserve to be gently teased for being so delusional.
Reminds me of that “Full Fregan Vegan” thing from that Parks and Rec clip with Sam Elliot.
Apples, pears, plums too then
This whole video and comment section show a complete misunderstanding and misrepresentation of what veganism is. It is the avoidance of using animals, as far as possible and practicable, for food, clothing, entertainment or any other purposes. As bees pollenate the majority of the worlds crops and grains, and humans need plants to survive, it is not possible or practicable to avoid all foods that have been pollinated by bees. It’s that simple
That's not the issue at hand. The bees are not naturally pollinating the crops. They are taken across the country for the specific use in forced pollination. Most crops do not need to do that. These do.
Michael Shourd most crops require pollination, so regardless of whether bees were imported, it’s not possible/ practicable to avoid all crops pollinated by bees
@@PinupSarah stop manipulating the "rules" of veganism to suit the foods you want to eat! There's ample foods that don't need bee pollination, you just don't like eating them & want to eat almonds, avocados etc. You could eat rice & vitamin tablets & not harm a single bee couldn't you! You could also eat exclusively animals intentionally killed to protect crops (deer, wild pigs etc) along with crop bi-products (molasses, oil free soymeal etc etc) & that would fit your claimed principals, but you're just a spoilt rich brat making up the rules to suit what you WANT to eat! You don't give a dam about any animals!
You could argue organic farming isn’t vegan too because of animal manure. As a vegan, as long as the production of the food is sustainable, it’s vegan for me. Sometimes animals are needed in a production process, biodynamics all that.
organic farming is not vegan, it takes up massively more land and unnecessarily utilizes animal byproducts to grow less food. we need to go vegan, but we need to stop the bullshit.
organic farming requires manure that requires animal agriculture to produce it, so obviously it's not vegan
The alternative to manure is chemical fertilisers that are made in factories by first creating sulfuric acid (and trying not to let it escape too much so no-one notices the acid rain) & then using that to convert the air into solid nitrogen, along with mining phosphorous, which is a limited resource & expected to be depleted within 50-100 years at current use rates, with peak phosphorous having passed & using it therefore being no different to sticking with fossil fuels as far as sustainability goes
So put simply, there is no sustainable vegan farming option. The best farming options in terms of killing the least animals & caring for the environment are farming options that fully integrate livestock & crops so that both feed each other. Certified organic requires this for certification, so organic IS a great option for animal welfare & the environment, but it is the opposite to vegan.
There are also now numerous elements of permaculture that have been taken & scaled up to a level that they can produce food at an industrial level while still ensuring high animal welfare/low deaths & improving the land on which they are used, instead of degrading it like normal crop growing does. Holistic grazing & Pasture cropping being the best 2 examples of this that are proven to scale to world feeding levels.
Holistic grazing runs the animals in herds in a natural, migratory simulating way that repairs land & fights climate change, while increasing weight gain compared to other systems/improving feed conversion ratios, via reducing stress.
Pasture cropping blends that with crops, using animals instead of plowing or chemicals to prepare the soil for the crop without removing plant roots that are preventing erosion & then for harvest, the bottom blade of the harvester (the one that kills all the animals in the field during harvest) is removed, the grain taken off the top & then livestock sent in to eat the grasses growing under the crop & trample the straw into the ground as soil building mulch
That seems a pretty extreme case for veganism. They are basically driving bee's around from one buffet to the next and letting them eat their fill. If anything, this is good for bees.
That’s an absurd rationale. The bees may be relocated but they’re still doing what they would naturally do & you’re not killing them to consume them.
Millions die on the journey though
How exactly are they harming the bees? By what taking them someplace knew where they can harvest more pollen? How is that harmful? You realize that bees build hives right and beekeepers simply supply a place for them to build that hive? They aren't forcing the bees to live in an unnatural environment.
You haven't researched this haven't you? They take bees to hothouses where they pollinate the food and then are "discarded", that is how monocrops hothouses works, that is how you get avocados in winter, or any out-of-season veggie/fruit/flower. So let's revise your argument, they are forcing bees to live in an unnatural environment, they are supplying a place for them to work and die and they are transporting them in awful conditions, remind me again how are they not harming them?
The bees aren’t being forced to do anything. In fact, it’s more like the beekeepers are bringing them to a variety of restaurants.
I don't think you understand the meaning of the word "vegan". Whether the animals are being forced into doing something is irrelevant to the definition.
I understand the word vegan perfectly well, and RSidney B is absolutely correct. If veganism excluded all use of animals, than I would have to remove all worms from my farm because I couldn't use them to break down my compost or aerate my soil. I would have to remove my bat houses and hedgehog huts. I wouldn't be able to dig at all. I'd have to remove all pollinating critters. That would mean no ants, no wasps, butterflies, moths, flies, bees, ladybirds, beetles, mosquitoes... And if I removed them, does that mean I am forcing them to do something against their will? No, veganism is about doing as little harm as possible, and about preventing unnecessary cruelty to all animals, human and non. I own a veganic permaculture farm and rely heavily on insects, as we all do.
You can say the same thing about making honey, yet vegans won't consume it
Are you delusional, morally corrupt or just ignorant on the subject?
You know that bees are geo-sensitive & hate moving right? & that honey makes the hives too heavy to move & so MUST be removed in order to take them to that "restaurant" they didn't want to visit? & how many restaurants have you visited that served you only ONE food & nothing else? I'd be giving that restaurant some very low stars & reviews if I was taken there to find there was buffet table after buffet table everywhere I looked, but the ONLY food being served ANYWHERE was boiled white rice. I would also feel "forced" to eat that white rice if I was forcefully held at that restaurant for 3 weeks with no other survival option other than to eat the rice. Same at the next restaurant with 3 weeks of nothing but plain, white bread to eat & then 3 weeks with nothing but baked beans to eat & so on & so on. That's what is being done to hundreds of billions of bees each year!
Serious? They’re arguing the semantics of FOOD. Yes bees pollenate but they’re not intentionally killed during harvest.
This is RIDICULOUS!!
No. "Vegan" means no animal products, or by-products, or use of a non-human animal in any way, shape, or form. (in the ideal) That would, technically, include eating fruits and vegetables that are not "naturally" pollinated using bees. That's why, at the end, she says "avocado toast is USUALLY not vegan".
To be vegan, you have to eat "free range fruits and vegetables". (partly humorous, and "partly true") But it's literally (or near) impossible to be "Truly Vegan". They use animal blood in so many things you would have to wear pure, natural cotton clothing and live "out in the wilds" and grow and eat your own food to be as close to Truly Vegan as possible.
People should just do the best they can and continue to grow as they can, becoming increasingly more kind, caring, empathetic, compassionate, pacifistic and non-violent (in all ways) as they grow. If only 50% of the population actually did that, we would be living in a MUCH better world today. (probably even 20% -- instead of WELL-less than 5%)
Daniel Anderson Yes it is!
QI is an entertainment programme.
@@paulgee4336 _"wear pure, natural cotton clothing"_ cotton is one of the most heavily sprayed plants, it's nearly impossible to grow without it getting infested with cotton bollworms. Cotton bollworms are cousins of silk bollworms & vegans have made it abundantly clear that they will NOT allow silk bollworms (generally referred to as just silkworms) to be killed in the production of clothing, therefore, if they are going to be consistent, cotton is not an option either
Paul Gee that's why it's ridiculous.
I myself am a sort of vegetarian. I use to say "Clayton's vegetarian", but nowadays not many people are old enough to get the reference.
It amuses me how people choose a belief, and then have to be rigid in their adherence to that belief. Then some of them think everyone else should believe the same, and also be rigid in their thinking.
Its the vegetarian you have when your not being a vegetarian?
@@kylieellway2 Yes.
@Eleanor Bartle Back in the 80's they were marketing a non-alcoholic drink that kind of looked like whisky but zero alcohol. It was called Clayton's.
I'm in the same boat as you I think. When I'm at home or out with just my wife I will be fairly strict but if it's a social occasion I really don't like to be 'that' person who is too pedantic and ends up ridiculously nibbling a piece of bread or something. Also when people say "Are you allowed to eat such and such" I'll usually reply "I'm allowed to eat pretty much anything I want". Really nobody's twisting my arm.
I can remember the 'Clayton" adverts!
0:33 her trypophobia kicks in quick.
We fertilise our fields with fish, blood & bonemeal and animal manure. How do vegans think food grows?
compost lol I'm not kidding! They believe it's possible to fertilise the world's 1 billion hectares of cropland with compost & that there are "veganic" farms out there already doing this profitably! Vegans REALLY need to visit a farm & learn some facts of life!
Yeah, as a vegan, this is dumb and worryingly misleading. Like yes, of course, in a perfect world it would be great if we didn't have to rely on these sorts of methods (that is to say physically trucking in bees), but that's not the world we live in and we're not insane. We just try to avoid the use and abuse of animals. And if we solved some of our other more pressing problems, some of this might improve ... but regardless, this is hardly what one would chalk up to animal abuse. If bees are well cared for, I see little issue with this. Vegans who avoid honey (not all do) generally do so merely because what the bees naturally make is taken away and replaced with an inferior substitute. They aren't protesting the fact that bees are out pollinating things.
Aha. This is the argument I've been looking for. So veganism allows for well cared for animals as long as you don't kill them or take away what they make for themselves.
So, for instance, I would guess that plants grown in farms that use natural manure as fertilizer would be acceptable as long as the cows were well cared for, correct? Or to bring in animals that would kill pests--as long as they are well treated?
Your problem is, despite (supposedly) being a vegan, you don't know what they word means. It doesn't mean "yeah, like you know, in a perfect world we wouldn't do this but I try and minimise it sometimes", it means you cut all animal products wherever feasible. If you eat honey then you aren't vegan - period. Just like those annoying people who say rubbish like "I'm vegetarian but also eat chicken".
I don't eat honey, but no, that's not the same thing at all. Nor is eating honey the same thing as this particular circumstance either. I'm simply attempting to give an explanation of the ideology, thought processes, and motivations to people who may be watching the above video and thinking that vegans are batshit insane. Your problem is you're judging me without knowing a single thing about me on top of misinterpreting what was a pretty clear comment that had nothing to do with the conclusion you appear to have drawn.
I mean veganism isn't one thing to all people. It's an ideology that people invented, not something that has a strict definition that applies to all things (despite what the other poster on this thread seems to think). The point is to stop using other living creatures as commodities, and to leave them alone as much as possible to do their thing in the way nature intended. But this can be interpreted in different ways. Some people are dead-set against pets, for instance, because this is a continuation of using an animal for companionship by fundamentally removing it from its natural environment. It's hard to argue with the fact that realistically, dogs and cats aren't meant to be stuck in tiny houses all day long when they're meant to be outside running and foraging and what have you. But at the same time, we live in a society where these animals are often neglected, bred thoughtlessly, and abused in many other ways, so I personally think adopting animals as pets from local rescues is a great thing to do, as I imagine most vegans do.
I think most vegans would prefer to avoid the use of manure as fertilizer if possible, but that's getting down to information not necessarily available when buying vegetables and what have you, and there are other things that get down to a super micro-level discussion about farming techniques. And it's not because there's anything wrong with manure fertilizing plants (that's totally natural), but someone would likely object because it almost certainly came from confined animals that were being used for farming. Using animals to kill other animals is also something I imagine most vegans would prefer to avoid, again because it involves confining the animals and putting them in a particular situation to be used as tools; but that probably also varies from person to person as far as pest control goes and such.
Like anything, there are hardliners and there are people who are a bit less exacting. I think in practice it really boils down to most people doing their best to avoid the obvious things, and trying to be at least generally aware of whatever else is going on and making what appears to be the best choice. Not everything can change overnight, and there are certain problems which exist because they're compounded by other problems, and in the future we might be able to do better. But like, yeah, animals sometimes die when industrial agricultural equipment is used to harvest stuff from fields. Mice and snakes or whatever. That's not ideal, but it's also not really possible to feed people in our society without those methodologies. In a perfect world everybody would grow all of their own food in their own yard and we'd all sing kumbaya around the campfire, but not that many people are so delusional that they think that's possible. At least not without a couple hundred years of further human societal development.
When the vegan who who doesn't want people to think vegans are batshit insane inevitably summons the batshit insane vegan.
Look at the Documentary Movie :
MORE THAN HONEY ...........
0:34 What? What's wrong... oh! Trypophobia! It didn't even occur to me!
It's not even a thing. People have made themselves think it is due to the internet.
@@NB79032 Even if for some people it is just a hysterical extension of how others react in performance, it's still a thing. Her response looked pretty authentic to me.
Bee rentals are a big business.
Well, let's be fair. This is just about comedy. Bees aren't forced to do it. It's a natural product, not a single animal, or conscience being is harmed here. And that's what vegans are about, they don't want other animals to suffer for their luxury. And I might add, it's obviously about having, or not having any alternatives.
I don't get how vegans get such a bad rep lol I know a few, guess what. They're just humans who don't want to support animal cruelty, because they got alternatives.
Seems alright to me.
The memers become the meme here to be honest. Everyone gets triggered when someone casually says "I'm vegan", or if you say "I'm vegetarian".
How many times did I go out, ordered the vegetarian food and people got triggered by it lol Dude, I'm a vegetarian, just let me eat what I want. Even if I wasn't, why do you even care.
Seriously, both extremes are annoying, the hardcore vegans who want to dictate others what to do, but also those "anti-vegans" who do essentially the same. Let's be honest here guys, how many times did a vegetarian/vegan yell at you "MEAT IS MURDER". Probably not that often, cause most of them are quite reasonable, because afterall, they're just average humans.
On the other side though, to this day I havn't met a single person who didn't make me being a vegetarian a big topic. Obviously aside of other vegetarians.
I suggest you do a bit more research into commercial hothouse operations before you state that no animals are killed. In order to get thing like tomatoes to grow in winter, they need to have bees pollinating in winter. This is achieved by killing off the beehives when they start to produce too many drones (drones don't pollinate) and putting the queens into a false hibernation. They then bring the queens out of hibernation after a couple of weeks and get them to start building a new hive. This way they can have worker bees available year-round.
It's not a widely known practice, but realistically how do you think commercial growers get pollination throughout winter?
Hence me editing my comment, and adding that it's also about alternatives.
I'm gonna be honest, I don't know a lot about what you described, and I'm definitely going to look into it, doesn't really change much tho.
Appreciate it.
Yes I agree! Although someone has accused me of enjoying the taste of death whilst I was eating a roast dinner...
Sounds like a good movie title to be honest. "Enjoying the taste of death".
I know it sucks, you just want to have a good time, and enjoy your dinner. It's annoying when humans try to control another human's thoughts, or actions.
Makes you wonder, don't people realize doing that will almost always have the opposite effect? lol
I love an open discourse about w/e topic. But there's always a time & a place for these things.
Some vegans oppose the idea of instrumentalising animals for peoples benefit, because they see it as a kind of slavery and an example how mankind puts itself over other beings, thus being speciesist.
Unless they slice those fruits off of the bees those fruits are vegan and no amount of wrangling facts will change that fact . Sorry QI but you got this laughably wrong .
Veganism doesn't just mean avoiding animal products.
Notice they said strict veganism, as in the extreme. I do know some people that attempt to go to this extreme. They aren't all vegans, but they are out there.
@@nolansykinsley3734 I'm referring to facts not some cult's dogma .
No, you're saying you know what is vegan.
And then you're saying you don't care what vegans think.
It's like going up to a Jewish person and telling them that cheeseburgers are kosher. And when they say it isn't, you say you don't care what some cult thinks.
Don't waste your time and effort trying to compare vegans to Jews or any other religion . And stop whining when the facts fail to conform to your opinions .
You need to start eating South American avocados. We don't use bees to grow them, but we do use tons of water that would otherwise be used for the townsfolk from the area. Luckily vegans don't care about human rights, if they did they would stop trying to talk to me about veganism 😂.
How does this go against facebook’s community standards??
Just not true, although they rely on bees for pollination so does nearly all plant life, and vegans seek to exclude animal exploitation as far as possible and practical
Practicable*
This was about crops produced using mass transport and overuse of bees, though, not about "don't eat anything that needs pollination".
~practicable (which it obviously isn’t).
And not nearly all plant life.
Of course vegans seek to exclude animal exploitation which is kind of honourable yet misplaced, but why to such an extent?
It’s extreme, impracticable, prejudiced and ultimately detrimental to certain animal and plant populations.
Surely taking simple care to consume fewer animal based products, along with improving farming practices might be more valid and ethical.
If everyone practiced these beliefs then bovine, equine, swine, etc., populations would be slashed, more plants would suffer, some may become endangered or worse, ecosystems would undergo huge transformations, especially in the oceans, for better or no? Nobody could predict. That’s a bit of a gamble. Less choice when eating, certain crops would be grown more than others, will the pollinators suffer or flourish, and which? Again, who could tell. Those that rely on meat as a food stuff, would be marginalised or even vilified just for that. The environment would suffer as a result of chemical runoff and overuse of irrigation for some crops, for instance; experts estimate that it takes one gallon (3.8 liters) of water to grow a single almond or pistachio, 80% of the world’s almonds are currently grown in California using nearly 10% of the state’s water resources, wildfires anyone?
Good intentions and all that I get it, but trying prevent animal exploitation to such a degree is illogical. Besides, civilisation owes a huge debt to historical animal husbandry and exploitation. To just abandon that entirely seems counterintuitive.
Do we also abandon working animals and pets? What would happen to them?
Na, as far as I see it, strict vegans have it all skewed.
I never said that the process wasn't true, I just said that it's not true that vegans can't eat them. Are you vegan by the way?
Samuel McCallister, it’s the research into how food gets onto our plates which made me go vegan in the first place. I’m just saying that they way the facts are reported here are incorrect
Haha. File this under “Stupid things said on BBC.”
What do you think is stupid about this? I'm honestly curious.
@@eleSDSU they made a dumb comment, they have nothing to back it up
All agriculture, regardless of whether bees are used or not, or whether its plants being grown or cattle, involves the mass purposeful, and accidental, slaughter of tons of animals. Pests such as deer, kangaroos, wild pigs, mice, and rats are all killed to maintain farms or accidentally by the large farm machinery.
Quinoa is vegan, despite being primarily harvested from South American countries and exported to the US to the point where the people in those countries are starving. But then, I guess bees matter more than brown people.
What? Quinoa farmers are not being exploited they make more money for their crops now than they did in the past. Plus quinoa is not a Vegan specific food only 3% of the UK is Vegan. Less in the US. We're not eating all the quinoa.
"The use of wild bees now accounts for around 80% of crop pollination this is down to the fact that honey bees are in decline..... The primary causes of the decline seem to be industrial agriculture, pesticides and climate change.
So, if we were all to go vegan the amount of land used in industrial agriculture will reduce leaving more land for honey bees, pesticides would be reduced due to the fact animals consume up to 16 times the amount of crop, and climate change has a huge link to animal agriculture." - fellow vegan Aaron Ward.
Veganism encourages stopping supporting the animal agriculture and animal agriculture is the main cause bees are going extinct in the first place (pesticides, climate change and use of land for animals instead of bee-friendly plants).
sos-bees.org/causes/
Yes!! Thanks for this comment.
Nah, thanks. I think I'll keep eating meat instead.
I mean.. I don't think they care..
To be a 100% purist vegan, a vegan would have to grow all their own foods and only using herbal-oils to repel insects instead of pesticides. But ofcourse not many people can grow all their own foods, so a vegan is basically just somebody who's doing the best they can for animals and/or the environment. If a vegan can't dodge these things, so be it. It's a shame that these issues even exist for the vegans, or the bees for that matter.
I wonder when the LEAVE THE MITES ALONE people will realise how much bees are worth. Bees actually start their food by pollenation so yes, you are eating a animal product, Sharon.
That's a problem for the non-honey eaters...
I kept bees for years and worked for several commercial bee keepers.
I'm happy to report that bees like pollinating, and are very grateful for the opportunity.
Frankly, thanks to the Varroa mite, non Africanized bees can no longer survive without human intervention.
We're now in a codependent relationship.
Enjoy your avocado.
@Tiger Tamer Bring me a beer if you're passing the fridge would ya? xo
Come on guys, it's BBC, don't take it seriously.
I wish QI would provide some sources for this particular bit of trivia. All resources online about the vegan-status of melons and tomatoes, seem to point to this episode. 🤷
Veganism is about trying. Trying to limit animal cruelty as much as possible. Trying as much as possible to be both practical and ethical. Is it practical to starve yourself because pollination is something that *can* involve animal cruelty? Not really. But it's entirely practical to STOP EATING MEAT. Start there if veganism is difficult for you, it's better than not trying at all.
1 cow is 1 million calories, so you can kill a single ethically raised cow & have enough food for a year with no other animal deaths, or you can torture to death 5 sentient animals per cup of plant based food produced & a few billion bees per year on top of that. Pretty obvious which option involves less cruelty & death isn't it!
@@lilaclizard4504 Do you think cows photosynthesize?
@@user-ws1fs8re1u no, large grazers evolved alongside seasonal grasslands. Grasslands as part of this evolutionary process produced too much grass for their needs, with the view to the large grazers pruning it for them, along with distributing the nutrients back to their roots as manure, while transporting the seeds to new areas to assist their reproduction & also trampling any extra into the ground to act as mulch.
In rainforests plants rely on fungi & other microbes to break down their old material & return it to them, but in the seasonal grasslands, conditions are too dry for that to be possible, so the plants rely on the microbes protected by their keystone species, the large grazers, who carry those microbes in the protected, moist environment of their rumen so as to allow the same process that can occur unprotected in rainforests.
The other option to break down the grasses at the end of the growing season is fire & most of these grasses have evolved to bounce back after fire, but fire creates far more greenhouse gasses than large grazers do when removing the excess grass.
Large grazers don't harm the plants, they are the gardeners to the grasslands, pruning, fertilising & planting the seeds for new life. There are grasses out there that have been tended so well by their grazers that they have lived long enough to see the first white men coming to their land! (and plants can btw differentiate colours, so they actually did see the coming of the white man & they are still alive today & if we could figure out how to communicate with them, they could tell us these stories!) Cows & other grazers, when managed properly by nature or man, do not harm the grasses, they tend to them in the same way we tend to fruit trees
This is so dumb and now so many news websites are reporting it as fact. I thought QI was respectable but this is embarrassing.
That is just stretching it.
"Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude-as far as is possible and practicable-all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals." So yeah it’s not perfect but it’s better then the alternative
For me as long as the food is a fruit or a vegetable, it's vegan
Seriously QI? You just lost my respect. Have been watching since series A. And the fact that Sandi would read that out without giving any context that vegans do actually eat these things, because they still need to eat something to survive beggars belief! It's about doing the most good, not zero harm!
well not my online vegan girl she is hitting hard on everyone. to my own knowledge everyone i have came across and discuessed this with is "zero harm" vegans. well some that turned vegan has had meat but changed their diet. i changed my diet so i only ate fish and or chicken every third day and vegan food in between. after almost 2 years i stopped. i found no bodily improvments at all, i was constantly hungry (but i could still go to sleep) and thirsty and got headaches more often. well i forgot one thing, my sweat and socks doesn't smell bad i can sniff it without fainting. now i eat meat again but only every 3-4 day. if possible i buy the discarded (near) out of date meat.
So....not eating crops that use mass transport and overuse of bees would count as "doing less harm" wouldn't it?
T Electronix Everyone has to decide what's reasonable for themselves. The same applies to veganism and individual vegans
So raising the damand for Avacado's due to the fad of veganism which would indicate more bees being used and abused in a portable prison cell on a back of a truck to keep up the damand is for the better good.
What did the bees do to you?
Veganism isn't a fad. It's a moral philosophy--a set of guidelines for how to live a moral life. If you view it as a fad, then you clearly don't give a shit about the bees, either, and disingenuous arguing will get you nowhere.
And, FYI, I'm not a vegan.
She's joking, right?
No, the BBC is this stupid.
I guess she has Trypophobia, she's an odd one but not joking.
mstcrow5429 - No, vegans really do exist.
No,just spewing out the bullshit on the autocue!
She's not.
Whenever I order a cheeseburger I make it a double cheeseburger so one persons work as a vegan means nothing.
So vegans aren't allowed to keep pets?
They usually adopt from rescues
dear bbc, please change ur name it got me in a lot of trouble
LOlz
well, according to some kind of platonic ideal of veganism maybe, but I think it's fair to say this is a strawman and no definition of veganism would actually classify these foods non-vegan. I suspect there's an agenda of presenting veganism as something wacky over the top, so normal people can feel less guilty about their lifestyle and consumer habits, they might as well eat steak everyday cause the alternative is a slippery slope to crazyville where you can't even eat vegetables.
The question came from an Oxford Professor & vegan activist who doesn't believe personally that insects are sentient & as such he is fine with killing them for his food production & basicly he was just doing like almost all vegans do & attention seeking over his beliefs. Vegans are more than happy to turn on & sabotage their own cause & make is sound ridiculous, there's no need for meat eaters to be doing it.
All that said, it is ridiculous to be refusing to eat honey that is removed from the hives to make them light enough to move, while saying the moving of them is vegan. If this is vegan, honey is even more vegan & the reality is that killing 1 cow can feed a person all their needed calories for a year, v plant foods that kill an animal on average per tablespoon of food consumed, so eating a carnivore diet is in fact the most "vegan" eating option - if it includes the animals vegans kill to protect their crops, it is even more "vegan" still, since it can require NO additional deaths
I bet a lot of practising vegans didn't know this either.
You'd be wrong, most of them know, is the same reason they don't eat milk or honey.
@@eleSDSU honey is vegan my any logical persons point of view
Discussing Trypohobia should have been right up their alley. What a missed opportunity.
They did earlier in the episode, that is why the woman on the left looked away, she suffers from it.
Need popcorn!! Going in for the angry vegan comments :O
Hey. How was that popcorn raised and harvested?
BBC..... meat and dairy industry funded. Haha.
noddylloyd How so? Please explain.
@@misswittank9224 veganism is bad for business so they'll say anything to make it look bad or difficult. I've seen it many times on the BBC. If you don't eat meat or dairy they don't make money selling it to you and also you're less likely to get cancer or heart disease or something like that which is also bad for business as the pharmaceutical company's can't sell drugs for you.
noddylloyd How is the BBC funded by those industries though?
It was kind of a joke... 🙄
@@noddylloyd It wasn't a great joke I'm afraid 😁
Hands up who has a crush on Bridget Christie?
Vegans are food lawyers, arguing for a client that doesn't care if they exist.
I came for comedy and got dished ignorant bs instead
What bs are you talking about?
Its like none of you lot know what satire is.
Strictly speaking this isnt satire, its not meant to be taken seriously but it isnt satire either
Pro tip all vegetables are produced with bees
Did she say broccoli ? The whole point is it's an immature flower bud.
Nothing for bees to do there...
You do realize that the broccoli plant has to come from a seed right? And that seed comes from a pollinated flower
@@GeraltofRivia22 that's hardly the same as the pollination of an avocado or apple flower. or
This the most ridiculous thing ever. So UNTRUE get your facts right🙄😒😅
Sherry Thomas The vegan society agreed with that statement before the BBC aired the show so those facts are correct.
my online vegan girl is going to reconsider her meals from now on.
she eats fruit nr 1, 2 and 4 on pretty much daily basis.
Sherry Thomas - bees are mass used to produce many foodstuffs, the vegan society did make that comment.
😒🙄😒
These facts are true, vegans just can't handle the truth being out in the open.
All these offended vegans in the comments who don't know the concept of QI 😂
I'm not vegan, and I watch QI all the time. Yet I have no idea what you mean. What is the concept they are missing?
As far as I know, QI does try to be accurate, and these vegans are claiming it is inaccurate. Seems fine to me. People pointing out that QI made a mistake is part of what the show is about, AFAIK.
@@ZipplyZane what I mean is, this isn't a mistake, it's just QI pointing out that vegans are flawed if they say that they don't eat anything that comes from animals, since they couldn't eat all those foods either.
In my experience, when they do something like that, they are explicit about it. They would say that "many vegans think [incorrect info] but actually the national vegan society says [correct info]."
Instead, especially given how it ends, they seem to be saying that these foods are not vegan, even though most people think they are. Not a comment about people being wrong about what veganism is.
@@LouisEnright but you are wrong, you misunderstood both vegans and QI. They are not saying that vegans don't/can't eat avocados, they are saying that avocados produced using methods that are fueled by animal cruelty are not vegan food, this has nothing to do with avocados, it's about farming methods.
What holes? I only see a bunch of boxes on a truck.
The background
Don't vegans just keep from eating animal products? It depends on how strict you are for yourself, of course, but I'm not so sure that these fruits and veggies aren't vegan.
This is such bulllllll omg
It's just a technicality. To be a vegan food no animal can be used or harmed, so moving shipments of bees around is arguably an abuse of the animal and hence not vegan friend, purely on definition.
Vegan means to not eat animals or animal by products. So yes, avocados are technically vegan. The problem here is that people are being critical on how to be a strict animal rights activist. So if vegans can't resolve all issues, why bother trying at all? Yeah, that is bs
Why is it bull? the food mentioned is being produced through a process that involves or better said depends on animal cruelty, you should research about the use of bees in hothouses.
@@DunkdaHunk What do you mean by technicality? it's not arguably "an abuse of the animal" is literally abusing bees, they are raised for sale, hauled to farms and hothouses and then discarded (killed) if they survive the pollination season of the monocrops or in the case of avocados their sexually active period.
Larry Lewinsohn I understand but as a vegan, I feel this is so extreme. It will put people off even more thinking we eat nothing...so less people would be willing to try veganism