Another single driver speaker I like! Lii song speakers first impression.
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- čas přidán 21. 09. 2022
- #hifi #audiophile #amplifier #stereo #Integrated amp #tubes
Pre-order Galion TS120 at www.galion-audio.com
Patreon: / thomasandstereo
Lii song Canada lii-song.ca/
lii-song.ca/collections/floor...
lii-song.ca/collections/floor...
Gear mentioned or used in this review :
Lii Song Liionidas extreme open baffle
Lii song Origin S10
Melody AN211 intergrated tube amp
Musical paradise DAC
Galion TS120 tube integrated amp
Luxman SQ150N
Zu Audio dirty weekend
Omega RS8
Unity Audio Whitewater Tower
Loic and I will be in room 354 at the Toronto audio show Oct 21 - 23. I will make an effort to be there between 3pm to 4pm every day, please drop by to say hi.
Lii Song speakers in Canada: lii-song.ca/
Latest video with Frederic talking about bass on my other Galion channel: czcams.com/video/sUTAz-G5Cuw/video.html
Will you show both pairs of Lii's or only the S10? Looking forward to meeting you guys.
@@TombstoneTube Both BUT At an audio show, the Liionidas would make more sense.
Looking forward to hearing your demo with the lionidas with the premium Galion tube am. I will be buying the Lionidas but with a 12” woofer vs the current 15 that’s in the bottom and I may purchase the premium Galion.
I'm curious, how are the Liionidas at between 60-70 dB for condo & late night listening?
im frustrated i did not get my products finished in time to bring them. my cnc is a month late.
I grew up with a pair of single driver 12" Tannoy speakers in huge custom enclosures about 4 foot wide designed and built by my dad in the late 1950s. They had jointed teak tops that matched the console which contained the turntable and a "The Fisher" tube amp under a gas rod damped teak cover. They sound was warm and rich, bass was deep and penetrating, and the uppers subdued, but present. It set the standard for all audio to come later in my life. Unlike many large diameter cone speaker designs I have heard, the 12" driver did not sound wobbly. My dad hated when I called it the "stereo". He called it the "HiFi".
Super thanks Thomas. I'm 71 and just beginning my audio journey. Like so many I grew up loving music and heard my dad's tube stereo waking me pleasantly. Recently bought a pair of Fyne 302 speakers. Oh I nearly cried, so much was revealed so beautifully. Also got a Technics SL PG 200A it's old but good, and a marantz PM7200. Altogether pretty good start.
I love you man. Appreciate your unique delivery. ❤
Thank you Thomas!!! I knew you’d do something with the Lii Song… 🎉 great back and forth format between you two.
Glad you liked it!!
Funny show Thomas.
Very nicely done!
Now, all I can think of is lap dance! Lap dance! 😎
May Leon rest in peace. His passing broke my heart. Leon is the man who designed that open baffle style.
Lii Audio drivers are very impressive. My first build 3 years ago were with the Fast-10 drivers. I eventually moved up to the 10,2 version. Those were good as well. Then I moves up to the Crystal 10. They got even better. Oh, and I used the Decware 25th anniversary with the variations of these drivers.
Lii is working on a platinum 10 version which I am waiting for, along with a Woofer 12 which is the making according to lii.
If the UFO can’t power the W12, I’ll look at getting the Gallion amp.
Took delivery of the Platinum-10 last week though they'll be waiting a while until Lii release cabinets specifically for them. A little bird told me that new cabinets (maybe named Emperor?) based around the current Glory will become available. Likely be a full floor stander version of the Glory to better complement the drivers. Far more cabinet volume is required for the Platinum-10 than Silver-10 drivers. From discussions I've had the PT-10 will have all the fine detail and sparkle I could ever desire combined with deep detailed bass that can actually slam and rock. They push more air than any previous Lii driver.
I love a well done full ranger, one of my favorite speakers I've ever owned were a set of larger omega models I wish I still had, they did everything just right.
I also have a pair a single driver speakers built by the same man. Will never part with them.☮️
Thomas.... I'm so into single driver systems. For the reasons you stated. I love the silky mid range & having singer or the string quartet in the room w/ me
I built a pair of L-Cao FA6 speakers in Tuned Quarter Wave Tube Enclosures with low mass Passive Radiators. A contour network was used to tame a bump between 2 - 3Khz. Doing so allows the HF sparkle to make itself known.
They sound their best with Wavelength Mercury AVVT20 Monoblocks driven by a 6DJ8 SRPP Preamp.
These look really cool and your description of their performance really appeals to me! They're aren't as crazy expensive as I thought they would be either. Especially if those prices are in CAD?
That said, I'm already committed to going the extreme opposite direction.. My 17 driver Tekton Moabs are due to arrive on Tuesday! 😁
I love my single driver DIY open baffle speaker with the 4 (!) inch W4-1879 + REL sub, especially with R2R DAC en SET amp.
Comes close to a Maggie
You are a cool dude Thomas!!
I remember DIY single driver speakers in the 90s..
We hade some DIY magazines and they where extremely popular because easy to build and cheap..
YES
That’s my kind of place!!! Good living insulated from your neighbors!
that Luxman is wonderful
I couldn't ever make that *switch* myself 😂 but I did not know about the Diana Krall lap dance😏 in the future I'll try much harder again with my single driver speakers 😅🙏🙏🙏
Great content and REVIEW! Humour and tech in a nice combo. As Ron at NRD says, OB is a different animal. Btw, your mics does distort a lot on the top (focal 😉) so change to a, maybe Røde mic. Keep up the great work.
Out of so many Fullrange single driver speakers i heard, i like the Voxativ the most.
I built a pair of Mr Cains 'Big is Better' single driver speakers with the open top.
I think they are great
My Lii Audio F15 open baffle is build is in the work. I have heard the prototype, it was breath taking!
I made mine but as OB it didn't fit me, too diffcult placement and reduced bass, so I placed these drivers into a Karlsonator of my own, much better.
i was thinking of buying the fast 8s? open baffles and adding there lii song and S-frame subwoofer baffle? love your reviews wheelchair Larry.
Since you asked about full range driver, I have DIY TangBand, Fostex, SEAS, Lowther…..some used on their own, sometimes with a bass driver crossed around 200Hz in a separate box. Nothing else works for me.
I have Spatial Audio M-1 Triode Master speakers. They need room to breathe. I am in a small room so I'm sure my soundstage is not as good as it could be, but I still love them. I can't wait until I get a bigger space.
In ground pool in Canada surrounded by trees, I hope your friend has thought that through. If he does do that leave a ramp in it so any critters, including his dog, have a way to get out should they fall in.
I have build my Liionidas Open Baffles 2 years ago, I knew the designer which sadly died 3 months ago. The 2 most important things to get the Liionidas sound it's best is space, and a lot of it! And an amp with enough power and damping to control the W15
is the distance to the side walls as important as the distance to the back wall? This is key to my particular situation. Thanks
@@TombstoneTube side walls can be pretty close but the backs need room to delay the backwave
Will an 10w el84 SEP amp do, in an large 45m2 livingrooom?
R.I.P. Leon 🌷
I was thinking about single driver speakers ever since Victor K's video showcasing the Elekit TU-8600 pushed me the last inch into building a 300b(the transparent plexiglass ones). So when I saw a pair of DIY Pencil speakers with Mark Audio 10.3 for sale for just the cost of the drivers, I thought 'perfect, something to listen to while I get around to building whatever it was I was going to build'. Dude changed his mind, but I told him to keep my #, and he did. Not sure what the problem with his amp was, we listened, talked, listened, talked(at the beginning of Covid-19 no less), he get excited and wanted me to hear his new Monitor Audio Silver bookshelves and that's when his façade crumbled. He had the tone controls treble maxxed out while listening to the Mark Audio and he'd gotten so excited he forgot. Not sure what that was all about, I've tried them with all sorts of stuff I have here, both great and small, and haven't been able to hear any need for extreme sound shaping.
I've got a 6L6 single ended Pentode that is the electronic equivalent of the speakers, lap dance city, Willie's beard, so soft. Put the two together and it's like a cartoon where you morph into the singer's microphone stand, as they hold you and sing directly into your face, which is now the end of the microphone.
I’ve never understood the obsession with bass. I prefer a balanced presentation. Deep bass does not correlate with a balanced preview.
I’ve owned 2 different pairs of OB’s. There’s nothing like the impact of a 15” speaker. IMO, you absolutely need a decent tube amplifier. Great review!
Hi Thomas, great Liionidas review. Which driver was in the speakers that you reviewed? T
I built the Le Petite designed by Jean Hiraga. With Fostex FF 125 wk. My best speakers yet. ❤
Hi Thomas, I enjoyed very much your presentation of these two speakers with the Lii full range driver. I thought I'll chip in to the single driver impressions club... made a follow up video on my channel, as it would have been way too much to type... Not posting the link, don't want to bomb your channel nor to intrude, yet you might watch it if you have time ; ). Cheers, Janos
I thought it was a great video, let me share it on the community page and here too. czcams.com/video/HuQ37PhSy5Q/video.html
Im interested in buying the Liionidas demos from Canada- appreciate the video
I hope if you use the Luxman long term you have it well ventilated. Mine heats up the room quicker than an MC240. And that's saying something!
I have owned Omega, Fostex, Lii OB, Betsy OB, and a DIY with Peerless single driver…and have experience with Mark Audio Alpair. IME, all these speakers need baffle step correction to tame the rising response…which gives the shouty or lap dance, in your face sound. Multi-way speakers control the baffle step in the crossover…but single driver speakers have no crossover so you need a resistor or DSP to tame the rising response…problem is that is sacrilegious amongst the purist single driver community. Regarding OB, DSP can really help the low end as phase cancellations are hurting the bass.
Thanks for sharing, Sean. I am quite new to DIY speakers and keen to build a stand-mount front ported speakers for MarkAudio Alpair 12p. May I ask what resistor, inductor value required to build baffle step correction circuit? Cabinet dimension will be 10.8" wide, 17.5" tall, 7.2" deep. Thank you.
@@jikim0916 the DIY audio forum community would be a better resource. Some really smart people over there.
@@jikim0916
Jepp, do your self a favor. Go down into the rabbit hole of DSP.
Don't waste time AND money on inductors, resistors and capacitors. That has very low ROI.
You can have a DSP as a preamp that take different digital input and analog also (for TT). And several Chanels outputs that feeding power amplifiers.
Then you can do better crossovers, more precise, more tuned, higher order crossovers, change crossover points in one Hz resolution. (As if you had unlimited founds and access to all caps, resistors and inductors in the world so you were theoretical able to do the same thing..)
Do optimal crossover for several speakers and when changing speakers you can have that speaker settings as a preset.
You can do so much more that the sonically benefits will outweigh any downside you will come up with.
So much more than I wish to write about right now. 👍
There's one compromise that can work, use two 8ohm small full range drivers per side and put a 1st order on one.
A good room and the placement. The room will be the main box compression. You will be inside the box. :)
I’m white intrigued by these beautiful
Looking beats
I own some Cube Audio Nenuphar's and also have some Voxative AC1.6 speakers. To my ears and in my room they are more musical than the Raidho & Sonus Faber Elipsa speakers I had. An easier listen where I now tend to listen to a whole album rather than scout for my favourite tracks in my music library.
You are a very lucky man my friend...I have heard so many good things about these...
What are differences between Cube and Voxativ? I am also thinking of the Pure Audio Project Duet 15 Prelude.
So a Cayin 300b integrated can't drive the Lionidas?
@@klepp19 The Voxative speakers seem quicker to my ear and have a smoother, more pronounced top end, while the treble from the Cube sits back in the more a little more. I can't state that for fact that they do though as I use SS amps that have far more power than either of the speakers require, so they may sound totally different supplied by a tube amp. I think the speed may be down to the AC1.6 is 8", while the Cube is 10".
Really would like to know what you think about cube audio speakers
Dear Sir, Good day, Will this pair of Lii Audio Liionidas Open Baffle Speaker cause his bass to be bass humming? Please give me your opinion as my room is small (10ft x 15ft). thanks
I have a similar musical paradise dac. Would be great if he/you did a vid about the mods and its sound vs other dacs.
Eventually he will on his channel.
Good one Thomas. Nice to see something a bit different. I have open baffles and will never go back to boxes. What do you need? An open mind.
Exactly!
Thomas which Decware are you talking about?Also are they bi-amp capable?Sound using a tube on top and SS below in a bi-amp with gain adjustable active crossover would be great.Again hoping you get a MiniDSP unit in like their new Flex or the more extensive SDH
I don't remember about bi amp. Decware, probably the ufo2 or Torii 5.
Ciao, uso degli Audionirvana da 12" nel box DIY consigliato, super cast frame, molto soddisfatto, questi Lii mi incuriosiscono molto, ma anche i Sibelius mi intrigano, musica più adatta a questi diffusori secondo te? Grazie per quello che fai.
Thomas, what do you think about using a 300b preamp and «your» DIY class-d amp to drive the Liionidas ?? (I assume 10w SEP from an AN OTO Signature will not do??)
Good idea but have to try it out to see if that works.
thought you were going to play them❓did i miss it😮
Thank you Thomas, good video. How come the drivers are sold separately?
They told me because some people already own the drivers so they can also buy it.
How do these compare to the Dirty Weekend?
Thanks for the review. Do you think the Decware Torii Mark 5 is enough power for the liionidas speakers?
Yes, absolutely
I’m kicking around the idea of building a supersized Leonidas. Fast 15 up top, W21 sub. Music Fidelity A1 for the 15’s and a Avatone CLA200 for the subs. Even though I primarily listen to EDM, I’m thinking it’d be pretty good.
Thomas - completely off topic - how does your friends room sound with the quadratic diffusers? His front wall setup looks very similar to how I would set up my room. I'm currently having them priced out by a local cabinet maker. Thanks for any feedback - and another great video. Always enjoy when you are with your audio buddies - that's where the magic of this hobby resides!
Most of my friend have room treatement and I will be making a video soon about on that. In this case, I don't know how much the diffusers contributed to the soundstage because it has been so long I was last there, like a few years ago.
Thomas, how does the Liionidas speakers sound with solid state preamps and amplifiers? I currently have a pair of Spatial Audio X5 speakers for sale, which have built in subwoofers and I’m planning to order a pair of the fully passive Spatial Audio X4 models, but curious how the Liionidas speakers sound with SS gear? I’m using a Luxman L-509x integrated amp, but just bought a Holo Audio Serene KTE preamp to pair with my Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC. My goal is to go back to separates, so I will be swapping out the Luxman integrated amp for a new amp to pair with the new Serene preamp. Lastly, can the Liionidas compete with Pure Audio Project and Spatial Audio speakers? Thanks…
We only tried it with tube preamp and solidstate poweramp. It sounded amazing. I don't know if it can compete as I have not heard the other 2 speakers.
@@ThomasAndStereo Thanks!
I got single drivers in oversize boxes. It's a bass vent design. But it's unique! The speaker hole is also the bassvent hole.😅 The speaker hole is on the top paneĺ of the enclosure ( like an omni speaker) and it is larger than the the 5" driver and has a 4" deep plastic tube of the same diameter in the hole (for acoustic reasons). The driver is mounted just above the hole (with an air gap around and under the driver). Mounted on an angle for a semi omni effect. It's an acoustic nightmare cos it can sound like the best or worst speaker in the world. Not for the faint hearted. You have to precisely mount the driver in just the right position (as well as do everythi g else to get an acceptable sound). And when it's right it's the most holographic speakers I heard. Great bass for a $10 driver and a voice sound like no other. So 3D! I also slit the cones with a razer blade right near the center. Like 1cm cuts around the center (about 3mm out). Leave gaps between the cuts so the cone won't fall apart. This gives you so much BETTER TREBLE! 😅
😂THOMAS YOU AND LOIC…ARE SPEAKING A FOREIGN LANGUAGE ABOUT THINGS I HAVE NEVER HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO TRY 😢. SO I DON’T HAVE A TASTE COMPARISON…BUT MONTREAL IS ALSO IN A FOREIGN LAND 😁 and I don’t have a passport 😢…but someday things will happen and I hope to experience them first hand…till then…
Would love to bi amp those open baffle speakers
Thomas, you might recall I have Emerald Physics (OB) 3.4s which have 12" driver with one inch concentric polyester tweeter, and I love them, with my LSA Voyager 350 GaN amp, but my room is huge. I am looking forward to getting EP 2.8s (MSRP was $9995) which has the same 12" concentric BUT dual 15" carbon fiber woofers (100dB!). Sadly, the EP line is out of production, but they do come up from time to time. A pair of 2.8s sold on Canuk Audio Mart for $2900!!!
I see, have you added subwoofers to help?
@@ThomasAndStereo I had 2 8-10 year old SVS subs (the tall round cylinders), that I purchased new. They were early models. The volume control on the BASH plate amps came on super loud when barely cracking the volume: probably designed specifically for home theater. It me years to finally sell them. Unfortunately, quality subs are really expensive, even more-so than the 2.8s MSRP, so...
Of course, I love full range drivers. Voxativ are the best IMO.
My experience with OB is placement difficulty, it needed to be nearly right in the middle of the room.....and bass were not there.
QUESTION : can you run these Liionidas with a Decware UFO 2,3W ? I wich you could try that !
I would really like to try that!
Hi Thomas, you did a very nice informative video!!! I am in the process of buying a open baffle or box speakers like the Børresen X2 or X3 and Alta Audio Alyssa & Alec Speakers. My goal is to buy some speakers that punch well above their price or get some giant killers! I am looking for very detailed speakers that has great mids, will give me a long, huge holographic wide sound stage, has a nice ceiling to floor sound and can play all types of music! I am looking for speakers that sound great even in a UNTREATED room. It would be great if you can tell me which set of speakers will best meet most of my desires.
In a nice dedicated large room with no windows, do you think that the Liionidas Extreme Open Baffles
can equal the performance or sound better than the Børresen and Alta Speakers?
Also what is most expensive box speakers that you have heard can the Liionidas Extreme Open Baffles equal in sound? 👍👏👍👏
Just feel some kind of connection between instant noodle and lap dance...
My friend, can you tell me what you thought of the Classe' CP-500 preamp and what is a silver 1 w/all original stuff worth?? Found 1 for $1350, others input welcome.
The CP800? Was so so.
So Thomas, would you recommend to buy this Monster Beast Floor Standing Speaker ?
Only if you like single driver type of sound, check out my latest video on Lyric moonriver 8.
I’ve an opportunity to buy a pair of the liionidas. But I’m trying to have a very minimal setup. I’ve a Cyrus one hd which I love, Bluesound node 2 (2021) but would it be a good match ?
Sorry, no idea.
How does it sound at low volume?
Curious if you remember how the Lii song liionidas compare to the Tri-Art 5 that Altitudo showed in the Montreal show?
They can play in the same sandbox.
Hey Thomas, I have a 15' wide by 19' deep room. Will that suffice for these speakers? I currently use Spatial X3's but my wife is not satisfied. We put a pair of Buchardt S400's in our room and she was happier but, they just couldn't get deep or loud enough for the level of system we have. Allnic T2000 30th Anniversary (KT150's ~150 WPC in pentode & 65 WPC in triode) and the Allnic D10000 tube DAC (amazing). Can't help but think the Allnic combo in theory could be absolute magic.
Have you consider adding a sub to your S400? The Liionidas should be able to pressurize the room way more than the S400 but not sure if your amp can handle it. In theory it should at 150wpc.
@@ThomasAndStereo I've done that. I added an SVS 16 ultra. I have not yet tuned it and ultimately, don't feel the Buchardt's will 'fit' with the level of electronics I have in our dedicated listening room. Looking at what folks have run in terms of amp power, it seems to me anyway that having 150 WPC (in pentode mode) on my very capable Allnic integrated, I'm only worried about my 15' X 19' room. We learned too as well that by bringing the big Spatial's upstairs where there's a tall ceiling and a much bigger room to breath, the Spatial's came alive. Keep up the good work Thomas.
The Liionidas open baffles need much more power. The 15 inch woofers need more control too; you are better off with SS amplification. Also, replace the stock crossovers with DIY based on Leon’s design and the speakers will begin to sing
Totally agreed!
Do you have the specs for the crossover? I want to build my diy version of the Liionidas. Thank you
What about biamping? Class D for the w15 and low watt tube for the s10, using active crossover?
I have a pair of liionidas and they need power I had mine hooked up to a low watt tube amp and the bass was weak,I switched to a pass labs Int-60 and the results was night and day.The speakers came to life everything just opened up, wide soundstage bass that filled the room like no speaker I have owned. These speakers sound great with all types of music,
OB single driver has a realistic presentation like no other however my musical taste is very broad and I find that some supplementation is required to handle it all.
I have come to the conclusion that the best approach is a wide band full range driver with a helper woofer to handle below about 200Hz to at least 40Hz and a super tweeter if you can hear that high. The idea is to get most fundamentals and first harmonics primarily in the wide band driver. Bass fundamentals are not as critical so at least 200Hz - 6KHz with a bonus if you can get to 8KHz.
Because of my love for pipe organ and Tim Foust I need a sub for the last octave or octave and a half down to 16Hz. Because I can't hear above about 12KHz any more I am pretty flexible on the top as long as it isn't harsh.
but at that point your a multi way and a properly engineered speaker can out do it both top and bottom. so really why settle for such a narrow music capability. but that being said with your hearling loss, there is a misconcetption, just because you can not hear average, does not mean harmonics with things like pipe organ and string instrumets are not degrading the spectrum you CAN hear. there is a reason why many amplfiers that measure up to 20k are ALWAYS average and ones that measure 50k and up sound much much better even if they are a cheap amp! the problem with most speakers that have flawless phase and time aligment are so expensive and elite we never get to audition them, and stuff in the price category most are comfortable with (not talking about budget speakers or box store garbage, those are completely different consumers) dont RnD enough to do it and go with "good enough most cant hear the difference anyways"
@@djfirestormx Technically it is multi way but not in the typical sense. In most cases a good single driver will do quite well with better realism than a standard multi way design with the possible addition of a sub which is usually required even for the Majority of modern multis.
By using a wide band driver for the majority of the spectrum you get most of the benefit of the full range single driver by keeping the crossover out of the critical frequency range. Supplementing some rumble and sizzle doesn't necessarily eliminate the wide bandwidth advantage.
As to the need for ultrasonic response I agree that in feedback amplifiers (especially high GNFB amps) a wide open loop response is a worthwhile thing to minimize negative effects in the audible range but for the loudspeakers themselves I don't think it is nearly as important because it is generally just a fairly smooth reduction in the ability to move fast enough and there are no feedback effects to be concerned about. Linear phase shifts in that range are not really that problematic.
My current system is a pretty inexpensive setup. It uses modest size open baffles with round top plate and 4" side plates. The main drivers are 4" Mark Audio full ranges which reach pretty well to nearly 20K with smooth but not sizzly highs. I use a simple first order high pass around the 130 to 150 range to protect the driver. There is a 10" high Q helper woofer with a second order low pass. This arrangement allows the main driver to put out some mid bass for cohesiveness without over excursion. I have a sub with 12" driver and 15" PR to supplement 20 to 60Hz.
This setup sounds delightful with SE-UL KT88S and even respectable with 2.1 chip amp. When finances allow I hope to experiment with larger high efficiency setups.
@@mkshffr4936 well I definitely am not saying you're wrong in any way. I actually really like the detailed response like that. A proper audio conversation! I'm currently working on a pair of speakers that I'm actually going to be selling and the largest challenge with having a crossover split in the voice range is usually because the materials are vastly different between tweeters and woofers. That's often where people get the misconception that you can't do it without causing an issue in that range. I completely agree with you but it is possible. That's why I'm actually a fan of large Dome mid ranges because you can cross over so high and so low that you stay completely out of the range were crossover points become obvious. It's actually part of the reason why I set out to start my own because everything you're explaining is something that I always hear. Of course I'm an audio Enthusiast and I love all of it and I would totally love to hear that setup that you have. I don't have any tube amplifiers I have yet to venture down that path myself but that being said I've heard my product on a Western Electric tube and also on Quicksilver M60 with the original design tubes not the upgraded ones that apparently ruin it. But I'm not too expert but I know that Western Electric is pretty insane. The guy ran an audio shop who actually specializes in a lot of things like full range drivers and has a collection of all kinds of pint source, tannoys you name it... and when he played my little prototype bookshelf the expression on his face before he said he can not believe there is even a crossover in it made my 3 years of painstaking testing, cap rolling, and 3d printing mean something. Phase inaudible, time aligned (without use of electronics or angle offsets), lenses in conjunction with a waveguide but no bullet effect. it was a lot of work but I just wanted to prove it can be done and that even the biggest players in some of the best talked about multi way still don't do it. because it's expensive crossover, like off the rails expensive lol.
@@djfirestormx And very painstaking work to tune the crossover during the design phase I imagine. Quite a bit of dedication on your part. Well done.
@@mkshffr4936 no speaker is perfect of course. but I like doing it because for me it's entertaining to design lol. I want to play with some OB too but too many projects lol
Just bought a pair of the Leonidas Extreme.
Omg! what are you going to drive it with? Will you be going to the Toronto audio show?
@@ThomasAndStereo I am going to try my Mcintosh MA352, I live in USA so will not likely make Toronto. I'll certainly share my thoughts once they have settled in.
@@khankxPlease share your impressions as promised.
I still have my speaker that came free with 2000s computer. Please don't laugh, I know what you mean when you're saying single driver have an intimate sound . I tweak my by bracing the cabinet and removed the plastic grills. That's all to it. In return It gives a satisfying sound for every casual listening fast and big sound for a tiny speaker. For high end I put on a headphone. Love them.
I started out with that type of speaker. I can hear the deficiencies though even with some of my mods. Some day I'll try out a well sorted pair of OB
OBs are great for most genres but modern pop could sound fussy. They sound fantastic when are placed in a room with high ceiling.
How sensitive are these?
Thomas, how does the Galion TS120 SE sound with the Liionidas? Both are in my shopping cart.
Very dynamic and grand. You need a big room to handle the combo. If you don't, you can always disabled once voice coil on the Liionidas within a second. At the Toronto audio show, enjoy the music website even gave us one of the best sound at the show award. A retired 6 moon reviewer also emailed me privately telling me it was one of the best sound at the audio show.
www.enjoythemusic.com/Toronto_Audiofest_2022/
czcams.com/video/K2a1Lfoa1Ec/video.html
@@ThomasAndStereo thanks for the prompt reply, Thomas. Such a pity... I have a small room (10 ft by 28 ft) and front/back wall is on the 10 ft side, so side wall reflection is not a problem. Now that Liionidas is out of the equation, please recommend speakers under USD7K that will work wonders with the Galion, if you don't mind.
@@eViperRabbit Well 10x 28 is a midsize room. So it might work if it is treated. The Galion will work well with any multi driver speakers. Just choose a speaker that is to your taste and the TS120 should pair well with it. Single driver speakers alone, is a bit tricky. Flat panel Magnepan are not my first choice to go with the Galion TS120
@@ThomasAndStereo got it. appreciate that.
thank you
Leonidas a Spartan...
best test track for any amp and speaker, in my opinion, is Radiohead's "Everything in it's Right Place"
It has incredible soundstage, and crazy crazy depth and imaging.....If you can learn how that song sounds at it's best, it's easy to tell how anything stacks up in comparison.
It's hands down the single best demo song I have ever heard
Just listened to it with my Hifiman XS's on Tidal. Pretty awesome and fun mixing.
You may like the Deep Forest track "Sweet Lullaby". I particularly like how the choir builds up at the rear and across the sound stage. Also pretty much anything from Delerium is worth a listen.
Awesome song Radioheads great. Try harrow down hill from thom York the mid range is insane on the right speakers
Ha, this is one of my go-to test tracks for years now -- I do the exact same thing :)
Really… I have to admit, I'm completely underwhelmed.
Tube amp cant drive the w15 drive , i have DIY open buffer with Fast 8 and W15
Great tracks of land ( in heavy Irish accent)
Please contact Closer Acoustics. I have the cheapest model called the OGY and it's a dream. The EMS fullrange driver is a gem.
Great video. Does it have a great resolution? Because my limited experience in the past was that most single driver speakers had a lackluster resolution. A best single driver speaker I experienced had an amazing transparency as if I’m listening to a s.e.t amp directly, yet did not have the micro details of more conventional speakers.
I know what you mean, from memory it was enough but I need to double check.
Given that most full range speakers rely on controlled, damped cone breakup (or not) and an extra whizzer cone, it's hard for them to be completely clean sounding
I think a meaningful comparison would be against the Maggie's. Most of us have heard and are familiar with them, notwithstanding if they are our in preference. Any chance of that?
Oh that is a really hard one, dynamic and bass output, the Liionidas has the advantage by a lot. Need to AB test to know
Thomas, do you believe your room is large enough to accommodate the these? In my experience, OB’s flourish in a large room. A room with narrow walls will work, but the presentation will not be ideal.
You need a room where the speakers can breathe. Ideally placed 8’ from your front wall with no side walls. That’s a large room if your speakers are 8’ into your room. But hey, set up a demo with them anyway!!! I’d love to hear them in your room!
Forsure my room is not big enough to bring the very best out of them.
I am playing the Ocellia Calliope.21 Silver, broadband loudspeakers.
They are absolutely fabulous. Put an OTL amplifier on them and you’ll never know there were speakers in the room.
coral beta 8 is the most dynamic speaker I have ever heard. of course with a SET amps are a must. they are magical but they are not for bass heads... for that maybe beta 10
Oh yeah talking about Coral beta 10 with its unique multiple ports big wide cabinet. It was ultra transparent & i couldn’t listen to my then harbeth spks for 2 weeks. Made the harbeth sound so muffled omg…but it was also very bright & forward. So horses for courses.
@@ganck1147 what electronics where you using ?
@@drwavedawg oh those beta 10s were not mine. Belonged to a friend. He was driving them with a diy tube amp. After listening to his beta 10, i almost bought a pair of beta 10 myself. There were loads of beta 10 drivers from ebay at that time.
Hi Thomas
When you tested the Liionidas, were you using the original Lii crossover?
Yes.
Were they a bit dark/muffeled with this crossover? (I got my pair yesterday, and is sounds pretty veiled going on 15hrs break-in)
@@hallgeirangel6494 No, it should not be dark. I think single drivers are known to be transparent and 'bright'. I hope you did not buy from Ali express because Liisong does not officially carry authentic Liisong products on Ali express.
Nope, bought from official european distributor!
@@hallgeirangel6494 if you unplug the W15, are you still getting sound? Perhaps you are only playing the W15 and not the top woofer? Is sound coming from the top woofer?
How would you compare the S10 to the Klipsch Forte?
Completely different presentation.
@@ThomasAndStereo Thought so. I agree with that. Another reviewer thought differently.
Thomas I recommend you listen to JBL 4367, and review
yeahhh either its as good as they say it is or were all foolish for not owning one :P
Too bad Liionidas can't be used with 300b integrated?
Used to be a big OB fan. Started with Bastanis then went over to single drivers.
I found these steered me to listening to jazz and acoustic music. I come from a rock background.These types of speaker dont do rock. ....and I thought it was my old age or the recording engineer. The Bastanis were harsh in the treble, and the single drivers just broke up.
I gradually went back to boxed speakers and started enjoying rock again. A good challenge is Lauren Mayberry's vocals in the band Chvrches. A demanding test to pass. Unlistenable with single driver OB's. Tolerable on my active Focal studio monitors.
Also, boxed speakers brought back upper bass detail & slam so lacking with OB.
I have, however, retained my cherished OB subs....2 pairs of UM18's naked in clamshell arrangement! Hard to beat with a boxed speaker....
Have you looked at any wide dispersion box speakers? They have some of the boxless Advantages?
clamshell as in ripole or as in isobaric? Any links?
@@Scottlp2 Not really looked at these. Using active studio monitors now which I can integrate well with subs
This is exactly the spkr I’am going to buy - single driver - silver 10” driver - open baffle. I will just buy the driver and make my own baffle.The Leonidas is too big for my room unfortunately. These are the same drivers Decware uses with their amps. I won’t say how much they are in China.
i only have one dual 18 inch subwoofer that 1600watt RMS
How far away from front wall do the Lions need to reproduce their magic?
You will have to ask Liisong, these were like 5 ft out I think.
The Most Critical factor Of My Enjoyment Of Music Listening On Open Baffle Speakers Is Absolutly No "HONK" Am I The Only Listener That Usually Hears A Goose At The Other End? But I Need To Listen To That St-Up!
How does Liionidas sound with TS120 SE?
Crazy good. We were blown away by the combo but we need to run it in class AB.
@@ThomasAndStereo awesome, can’t wait for the amp then!
I would pair up with cube audio, they might send you some speakers for the show,
they would be your best speakers to use with valve amps. plus you're promoting the brand I don't see why they wouldn't.
you need good dampening behind a open baffle
you should have a 15 or 16 ohms 96db bass driver for the open baffle 8 ohms 92+db for the mid-range tweeter.
Well it is not my room. It is actually Liisong's room and because they heard my amp, the borrowed it from me.
@@ThomasAndStereo right ok!
yeah maybe be good to pair up with other people next shows. you had cube audio in your room what did you think?
amazing that some one in Canada has finally wasted money one this , im glad there working out, i just worry about longevity with more and longer power handling, i guess ill see them at the show, Leonidas is the the most tempting, these are all "cheap" speakers lets see if there long term wins or just oddity's for your secondary system
Cool! So I will see you at the show?
@@ThomasAndStereo still being COVID safe with the new baby . My heart will be there but ..... Will you go both days
@@markw7303 Ah take care yourself, health comes first. I will be there 3 days, from 3pm to 4pm.
I really want to see pure audio project or the other popular open baffle . One of these will be my next speaker or nothing will. I'm not sure there coming though that and coda and legacy but there also usually no shows.
Did he pull a driver out of one side? Resting on sub. Based on design alone I would have to pass. Got hit hard with the ugly stick. Decware out 1.5 years nowadays. Maybe change your direction to the 300b way?
The driver on the side belongs to Loic, he is having a speaker build right now with those drivers. Wait for my Willsenton R300 review.
Didn't play either. Hoping for a sound clip.
Sadly I did not record one, was not at my home.
Lii Speakers are UnderRated, They dont invest Heavily on branding and advertising they dont like to fool their customers, they make speakers with Passion and integrity. Lii is the best for the Healthy Ear not on a deaf thick wallet guy.
Open baffle 1,5 m front wall
Can’t get with that plastic looking surround on that Lii Song. The other ones looked very cool.
The big problem with one driver speakers is that with symphonic music they get stuck, they can't handle that huge amount of instruments and sounds, because they have to generate all the frequencies of the music at the same time, which means they don't they can be used to listen to all musical styles. With 2-driver speakers it should be different. On the other hand, if you only listen to music with a less complex sound construction, the sound of the speakers of a driver is relaxed, full of micro details, and they distort the sound source less than speakers with more drivers.
The advanges is that you get only one point of sound emission so you can listen very near to the speakers, a more coherent sound stage ; it ensures the same "color" on the full spectrum and no delay between trebles and bass (if 2 ways) ; no crossover to eats up the dynamic......that's a lot for me.