The Dumb Ox Speaks: Aquinas on the Beatific Vision
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- In this video, Bryan Kromholtz, OP discusses Aquinas' way of thinking about "seeing God" or the beatific vision. Aquinas often positions himself between extremes, and Professor Kromholtz shows how Aquinas finds such a middle way in talking about the possibility of human knowledge of God in this life and the next. Read more about Professor Kromholtz at www.dspt.edu/f...
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The Dumb Ox Speaks is a project of the Dominican School of Philosophy & Theology, engaging contemporary questions at the intersection of philosophy and theology. In these videos, DSPT faculty regularly provide insights based on their experiences of teaching, writing and ministry, as well as highlight the profound relevance of Thomas Aquinas and the Thomistic tradition to intellectual, societal, and spiritual life.
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"...for they shall see God." Very uplifting talk.
I’ve had this vision , I seen a Holy light in clouds and felt the presence of God , the authority the the Father is so powerful , extremely powerful , it’s so beautiful plus you will KNOW it’s God , your spirit knows the Father , I’m so blessed to have experience the Spirit of God 💕💕💕
The Beatific Vision is seeing Jesus in His glory, and also seeing the Person no one ever saw directly - the Father.
There will always be limits to our perception of God even on the level of this Vision. But that's the real beauty of it - we'll keep chasing the limits eternally without ever reaching it. Thereby, the more we gaze upon God, the more wonderful and beautiful He will appear - as though, to us, He "grows" in beauty everyday, continually and eternally. That's what makes the Beatific Vision inexhaustible in our awe of the LORD God.
No, probably not. It’s a pretty clear teaching that individuals’ perception and splendor is correlated with their merits and position in heaven. The idea of God perceivably “growing” in beauty as the source of our “inexhaustible awe” is entirely unnecessary and honestly approximates blasphemy. Not for suggesting God would appear to change, because you seem to make it clear that He isn’t actually changing, but because it suggests that beholding God in and of Himself, even at our limited capacity, isn’t sufficient for perpetual admiration. God fully comprehends **everything**, including Himself, and is perfectly content within Himself. To be sustained at, by, and with the most infinitesimal drop of His perfection would be enough to produce permanent awe and joy.
@@John-ng8fx _"....because it suggests that beholding God in and of Himself, even at our limited capacity, isn’t sufficient for perpetual admiration."_ --> Thanks, I understand my error. Any extent of our gaze upon His glory, no matter how small, must and will produce inexhaustible, everlasting admiration.
_"The idea of God perceivably “growing” in beauty as the source of our “inexhaustible awe” is entirely unnecessary and honestly approximates blasphemy."_ --> I agree.
_"To be sustained at, by, and with the most infinitesimal drop of His perfection would be enough to produce permanent awe and joy."_ --> Very well said. This is a new perspective for me.
Then, based on our exchange, I'd say that our enjoyment of God is (for lack of a better word) 'multi-layered'. Our least perception of His glory, even without any degree of growth, is enough to dazzle us for eternity; but that perception will also expand everyday without an end.
Plenty of people who have near death experiences speak of something approaching this, but are not allowed to see completely.
Love the churchxb
PANARION BOOK V
EPIPHANIUS OF SALAMIS
LXX. On the Schism of the Audians. L, but LXX of the Series
VII.III. But someone will be sure to say the sacred scripture means that the prophets saw God in their minds, because of the text, “Even their angels behold the face of my Father which is in heaven,” and again, “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.” 25 (4) If < someone > has noticed this and put texts together to fit his own conception, < he > might say that each prophet sees God in his mind, for he does not do it with his eyes
VII.V. But the sacred scripture contradicts this by saying through Isaiah the prophet, “Woe is me, for I am stunned, for I, a man of unclean
lips, dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips, and with mine eyes I have seen the Lord of hosts.” 26 And he didn’t say with his mind or in his thoughts but with his eyes, confirming the truths and certainties of the faith
Aquinas = in error because teaching that man does not see God with his eyes [in his whole being]
i have had a beatific vision of god. it was so profound that at the time i didnt even know who it was i knew it was a god but to see god without the lens of religions was really something profound he/she looks elvish buddahesc and i thought it was a girl but it wasnt it was just a perfect being. maybe i could talk to the church about it?
Yes, you really ought to talk to your Priest and seek to have it approved, at least make sure it lines up with what we know from The Bible, as we need to always question and use rational judgement about these things. God Bless, CJ
Def seems demonic my friend. Go talk to a priest
The vision can be discerned in retrospect by the fruits it bears. If you were feeling uplifted, peaceful, compassionate and it was later followed by intentionality and acts of kindness and love, rest assured the source is God. If you felt anxious, not at peace, envy, jealously, etc, and non-loving acts followed, this indicates a source not of God's Grace.
Think you saw a demon bro
The beatific vision can only occur in heaven, the highest heaven.