Why you should Keep Flying! | DCS World Apache
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- čas přidán 10. 06. 2023
- Despite what some have interpreted from my last video, I DO approve of the new flight model overall. Don't stop trying and you will get better.
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Hardware:
intel core i9-13900k, 64GM RAM, Zotac 4090 GPU
Joystick: VKB Gunfighter III with 20cm extension
Pedals: Virpil ACE
Throttle: Virpil Mongoose 3 - Hry
Great advice Casmo. The Army's Longbow Crew Trainer (LCT) has a pretty decent flight model and yet there are still errors. The DCS Apache flight model is roughly equivalent to the LCT's and may even be better in some cases. I advise my flight school students that when the muscle memory for a specific control input doesn't yield the expected result, adjust from that known point--"Do some of that pilot $#!+ Mav!"
Yep. Agree
@@CasmoTVdo you have a preferred curvature to the control setup? The apache seems overly sensitive in DCS
I could be dead tomorrow, so I’m going to enjoy the Apache and all the other modules every day that I can.
I'm now in my 50's.
So yes, absolutely.😊
@@shd4618 Same here and I am in my 70's.
@@LoneRangerUK1
I'm always so happy to see how dcs brings people together from kids who love aircraft to those who really did fly the old cold war jets or just gamer dad types into one place.
It's really nice to watch
@@sam8742honestly! I am 17 I was on a server I had the basics down of the Huey enough to function but on the server a man who had actually piloted a Huey taught me so much and now I am way more effective with the huey.
The pursuit of perfection may be impossible, but if we chase perfection, we just might catch excellence. Well the Apache is an excellent module and I’ve flown from day one seeing her grow and improve beyond my wildest dreams. Good video and well done ED!
If you aim for 100% in simulation you'll only really ever reach 90% at most, but that's just how it is.
This is a good example of someone demonstrating that you can be critical of aspects of something, but still enjoy it, and advocate for it's plus points. Good stuff.
For the record, I love the Apache, it's got a ways to go of course but so far I think ED have done a largely superb job with it.
We've had the Apache for well over a year. I have taken the attitude that I'm an early access test pilot.
I've put my faith in the feedback from actual Apache pilots, because what the hell do I know?
Many of the problems I've experienced seem to be often attributable to problems within my own hardware (sprung vs clutch cyclic for example) as much as the updates.
If I get frustrated, I just put it down for a day or two.
I waited many years for a modern study level Apache. It's here, and I feel privileged to be able to enjoy this with the help of people like Casmo who did it for real.
Really hope the KW comes this year too.
Casmo, whether rant to us or teach us. Your comments are what they are. I struggled with the Apache and you make it look easy. But I am the one that has to learn it. You only give guidance and opinions. But you have given me help with this aircraft since it's release. I have a twist stick because I have no feeling in my feet. Trust me you are doing fine. If you get aggravated at a change. It only tells we hey I have to make an adjustment somewhere. I appreciate all your input whether good or bad.
I hear you. As someone who has followed your channel and who is truly grateful for the amount of info you put out; it really is fantastic that you take the time to do all this. What I do know is that before the update and with your channel’s help, I managed to get takeoffs and landings to a point where they were reasonably routine. However post update I am honestly struggling where it’s a toss up to being in the air, or on my side with significantly shorter rotor blades and missing the tail altogether! 😝. I’m not giving up for sure, and sticking with it. The Apache is a great module, and again… thanks for the content that you put out. A Scotsman in Shanghai is truly grateful. 🙏.
I just need more practice. 😀
Right, don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.
After 10+ years in the Hog and the Hornet since it's release, the Apache is my new favorite module. FM feels fine for me, I have great fun.
Thank you for all your commentary and content Casmo! We all learn and enjoy your channel :)
Great video Casmo. I totally agree, I Love the Apache and will never just "stop" flying it.
I can at least slow down now without ending up upside down now I see it as a win
Resilience- the process and outcome of successfully adapting to difficult or challenging life experiences, especially through mental, emotional, and behavioral flexibility and adjustment to external and internal demands.
Landing is much better now, and that is key for a lot of pilots. Nothing more frustrating than finishing a great mission with a faceplant. So much potential in this module, I love it! Thanks for the excellent tutorials!
Great vid Casmo, let’s be honest here, DCS is a great simulation period, no matter what you fly. Now changes do come and sometimes they upset the rhythm we had when flying. Example, I went the Virpil joystick base because I wanted more control than my Thrustmaster had. However, I am still getting use to it, even though it is better, because of that. Same with the flight models, they are trying to hit a bullet with a bullet and it’s hard. People, just enjoy it and yes it will change again.
I have the Virpil hotas and still haven’t switched to it because I am fighting the need to retrain myself to the button presses and differences so I still use the Thrustmaster hotas.
@@toddw6716 Why don't you just put your TM grip on the Virpil base? I run mine like that and it works great!
@@Cactus1-1Victor3 it’s the hotas I haven’t used yet. I use the Virpil joystick and base but the TM hotas instead of the Virpil hotas
like the quote said:"Focus on the positive things and you’ll be shocked at how many more positive things start happening"
Well said! And it goes for every module out there really. Fly and enjoy what we have.
Great perspective - thanks!
It's a game
Maybe treating these quirks away me and my friend do might help.
When she starts getting weird we just assume that she's got some battle damage.
Because once you figure out how to do that when she does get that battle damage you'll be a far better pilot.
Cheers and good hunting
Been having a much better time getting in to a stable hover with the trimmer when it's needed so mostly happy with the changes so far. Always some growing pains when a flight model is changed but we get over it soon enough, I use a vkb gladiator with no springs and some light clutch and it's all been all good with my set up with the last couple of iterations of the flight model.
I watched the last vid and agree with your comments about the ground friction. The whole aircraft should not be sliding sideways. Also when landing I’ve found that the aircraft suddenly rolls to the right. As you say, you can change the way that you fly, and during early access everything always changes. Keep up the great work informing us of your opinions about the Apache.
At the end of the day, the percentage of us who have spent any time in the real life Apache and can say how close or not close the DCS Apache is to that, is EXTREMELY small. Those of us that fly the DCS Apache and have never stepped foot in the real life Apache, which is the vast majority of us, can’t say, “XYZ isn’t realistic because of ABC.” Just enjoy it, it’s a LOT of fun to fly. Make adjustments to your flying when ED make adjustments to the flight model, and have fun with it. The challenge is rewarding when you get it right.
Really a case of how guys shouldn't let "perfection" become "the enemy of the good"..
_thanks for this!_
Good honest video. Damn! You made me want to pick up the keys again! 😂
Why should i stop?! Adapt to the changes and enjoy 😅 its EA so things will change. But ifyou focus on the goods you have a lot of fun
Exactly.
Was fun take care and thx for videos
YES! The 'human factor' in developing simulations and the variables that entails is what I chock a number of things I haven't liked up to. Plus, what is (in real life) easy for some may be more difficult for others and that perceived difference in difficulty among people could create two totally different behaviors if development listened and adjusted based on that.
Casmo, love your channel and saw your interview on Mooch's channel as well. Great job. IRT the tail rotor thrust: I am not having that. Your points are right on. I am having a lot of enjoyment flying this helo now. I was not before. I was getting so frustrated because I can fly that UH-1H, in DCS, very well. I can now transition from flight to hover. I still need a lot of practice but I can get it done now. Thanks again! AOC(AW)USN ret.
I didn't notice any problems either, I wonder if it's trim related? I'm using MFG pedals with no spring and rudder trim disabled. What are you using?
@@ColonelAkirNakesh from another comment, it seems they could have tweaked it in the latest patch and just forgot to put it in the patch notes.
@@ColonelAkirNakesh I have the MFG as well but I am using the spring and damper. Same trim setting as you.
@@KomradeDoge That makes sense. It flies well for me. I am glad that people can really start to get into the Apache with this update. Even if it is not ultra real, for me, it is fun!
dont let perfect become the enemy of 'good enough' . that being said, if somethings broken, theres nothing wrong with moving on to another module for awhile. "ground handling a bit buggy right now in the apache? well, its been awhile since ive flown the mig19/i16/hind/f86/whatever other module is gathering dust" temporarily moving away from a module that has an annoying flaw is a great opportunity to discover how much fun there is to be had in some of the older/lesser flown modules. whenever i hop into something i havent touched in awhile, i find myself inevitably thinking "man, i wish i could fly this more often"
I own several DCS modules and have had the Apache since launch. I haven't tried the new flight model in beta, but I'm currently flying the Apache more than I ever have, and I'm sure the FM changes won't put a stop to that. I still have a lot to learn before I "git gud" but that's all part of the fun to me. The Ah-64 is hands down my favorite DCS module.
Flying with ANY wind would probably throw most DCS pilots out of their comfort zone...no two flights are ever quite the same.
I'm going to throw in my 2 cents. I am flying with a warthog stick and throttle, & MFG crosswind pedals, dampened with no spring. Force trim = no springs or FBB for the pedals, cutting off the force trim action since the pedals physically stay where I put them. Cyclic force trim is set to center position trimmer. I was able to get light on the wheels and do a slow pick up without the aircraft skidding laterally but it took left cyclic and ZERO pedal input instead of left pedal input. The aircraft was stable up into the hover. Flying the approach to land or to a hover required significant right pedal as I lowered the collective, with some left pedal as I pulled power through ETL, then zeroed them out in the hover. I am wondering if the problem isn't a combination of how much thrust is coming off the rotor, coupled with how the force trim runs the pedals in the simulation. Honestly, getting the Crosswind pedals and de-coupling them from the simulations force trim system was a complete game changer for me. The aircraft does what I want. Of course I'm not a helicopter pilot with a bunch of muscle memory, so I learned on DCS through much time spent "getting gud". Cheers!
Well done!
Good call Casmo. Perfection to one is not necessarily to the other. Simple.
thats great video i agree with you
I don't think anyone on the channel thinks the model is not great or we won't fly it. I think it's being able to type out our frustrations without people taking it as if we are complaining or hate the model. The apache is just amazing as well as all of DCS in a nutshell ! I think the average person watching your videos understands a small complaint vs this sucks don't fly it lol thanks for all the videos
You also got the guys that somehow manage the Apache using the T16000 throttle rudders 😅
M8 your the guy to listen to if you say it's this or that then I'm gon na belive you and not some guy who's flown dcs for afew years and thinks he's the MAN !
Keep up the great vids and thanks for your service, I severed in the RAF
Feedback is always good. Opportunity clock. :o) I am a ski racer variables are the fun
I think "Fixed" in my book means no yaw axis SAS artifacting, not having the VS magically dip while I'm in a perfect trimmed cruise, higher SAS counter response to eliminate tail snap on
only thing needing fixing on the Apache is the "magic tail" lol
it makes it hard flying next to an Apache flying along like nothing with not tail but fully working tail rotor as it looks so funny
I found that holding the brakes kinda helps with sliding.
Great perspective. It’s a game. Trying to simulate while missing the most important part of flying, the seat of the pants. Take it as it is, knowing it’s open beta, have fun, go weapons hot and kills things 👍
whole heartedly agree, the actual flying a lot "easier" with the new model, my earlier comment was just an observation about the process of early access... you do have to change your previous learning.
Yes. The last fix has been a big improvement in a bunch of areas. I was frustrated with the previous update of adding the L hellfire, when the gunner stopped functioning until I found out I needed to jump in the front seat and flip a switch.
What’s that about?
@@TheSpaseDestroyeR George would slap the LST into auto when he did his startup. Now he doesn't do that.
Casmo - First - I love your video's always a great help. Have you tried comparing the torque difference on the tail rotor between single thread and multi thread? While they are similar, the flight model seems to be more predictable in a low altitude hover in single thread.
You saying what’s on your mind carries more weight than most.
That's been happening to me on and off before the patch for awhile now. sorta glad it's happening to more people so it can get fixed. I still fly it though and do notice it's getting much better with the patches.
You could also take off with manual stabilizer on for smoother takeoff
I haven't flipped her yet since this update. Very welcome changes.
"They may change something and you have to relearn how to do something." Ya that's what software development itself is like. I've lost track of how many different times I've relearned how to make a website lol.
Will we get your POV for when you flew with Growling Sidewinder? Would be cool to see what you do and your workload.
don't stoppppp, believinnnnnnnn
Great points and it's the same points that get brought up in the X-Plane world. Most of the pro captains say basically the same concepts you are saying.
I sent Casmo feet pics 6 times before he replied to my DM's. I mean, yeah sure he said silly things like "dont ever speak to me again" and "what the hell is wrong with your big toe? it looks like a crushed toad" but the fact was that despite those setbacks and him ignoring my outstanding pedicure, I still got a reply. Keep flying!
I told you not to call me here!
@casmotv not even a borked tail rotor (or restraining order) can get between our love!
True words!
I watched your last video, fired up the Apache (as I do daily) and I must say, although you were 100% correct, I didn’t find it that bad. Would like to see you do an update on the Huey if you can be bothered 👍
There's still nothing like the Apache. :)
Hoping for changes, but I'll keep flying all the same.
I just hope they will add even some A/A capabilies to Apache, because there is no way to defend against anything in the air rn.
It’s called combined arms and joint ops. That’s what the jet guys are supposed to be doing for you
It seems like they fixed some of the tail rotor issues in the latest patch without mentioning it. Doesn't seem to been spinning you on the ground if you unlock the wheel anymore. Also seemed more stable on take off and landing. Unless i'm just imagining things
Maybe so. I posted that video right before the new update so it may have changed. I’ll have to check.
I keep flying it as usual despite its hard to transition from fast to hover but I take it as a challenge.
It can do it, just keep practicing.
People make such a big deal about things that are really not. The Apache flys better than it ever has.
I for one love the new flight model. My biggest issue is finding people to fly it with!
Yup!
I was thinking about this. I wonder if there is a problem with code surrounding ground effect and the tail rotor.
Might simply be the ground friction 🤷🏻♂️
I have a short stick extension. Hey, someone's gotta draw the short straw.
tuning curves, training muscles memory, that's all we need.. is the 64 FM worth it !! ABSOLUTELY YES.. we like it against all the odds
medium sticks matter! :P
I agree, for me the Gazelle was like this. Now that they made the new flight model, everyone is praising it to the heavens and back, and I personally never felt it being weird or way bad. It was twitchy, snappy, and tried to kill you, but that was kinda it's personality if you will. I don't mind and like the change, but I liked it before, tweaks happen in all sims, and that is more than normal.
Are you expecting the DCS community to recognise nuance? 😂 Have you met the DCS community at large? 😂
Still enjoying flying the Apache. Being an SP player (nobody needs my personality and incomptetence on their server😂) I just need ED to get round to wiring up George to a really good version of ChatGPT and wiring up ground forces to a version of ChatGPT with very shaky hands! 😂
Great video as usual, though Casmo. 👌
RAD SIR!
DCS fan here. My only complaint about the Apache is that it doesn't have the Longbow radar yet.
I’m firmly in the ‘I have no idea what I’m doing so I’ll just make Apache go brr as best I can and let the adults decide what tweaks to make’ camp. It’s an absolute joy to fly.
I presume the default ‘hit force trim and it is immediately applied’ setting is correct for the real thing? I currently have it set to the mode where you hit force trim, it locks everything, you centre the stick and pedals and it unlocks them. Couldn’t ever be smooth in the default mode when FTing because of the woah boys but if it’s been toned down then I might revert back.
the flight model seems really cool, its just a shame the tail rotor thrust is a litttle too much and i slide instead of yaw, like you said the friction should be tipping the heli over
new dcs pilot (never flown more than a parachute in rl) and newish to the a-64. definitely is different and as newish pilot I'm having some issues over the last flight model (muscle memory was just beginning to form). after initial take-off she's easier to get under control in flight and maneuvering at tree line for a pop up is really decent. landing is where I'm having most of my issues ATM. I can't blame the flight model as I'm sure operator error is also playing its part in my case. I've put out several landing zones at an airport and spending some time learning to tame the beast.. landing I've found to bleed off everything by a slow circling landing, slightly side slipping to burn speed all the way into a final flare and set it down quickly with hardly any hover (not pretty but I'm not creating scrap metal as much) most issues im having is hovering within the envelop of the first/last 10-15 feet of flight as that seems to be when the tail end starts getting a mind of its own.
My biggest problem with the Apache is that I'm Solo all the time. I can't tell you how many times I've jumped in the front seat after a 20 min flight, and George flat falls out of the sky.
A little movement to the right is pretty minor compared to the screen going black when taking off from a carrier in a F-14.
How do you guys deal with instant trim with a long joystick? The instant trim just feel like it jerks it all it’s like it throws my Apache overly where I want it?
I am just over the moon for the simple fact of - We have an Apache AH-64D in DCS!! That is infinitely more amazing than not having an Apache AH-64D in DCS. Simples!! Very happy and thankful.
Edit: The folks at ED are constantly working on this awesome early release module. Figure there will many adjustments to the flight model. Just really happy we have an Apache
I rewatched your last video: what if it's the (lack of/weak) lateral wheel friction and not tail rotor thrust?
Could very well be the case
Chinook with guns. Problem solved. Oh and rockets. No tail rotor issues etc. only problem is it’s a bigger target.
😢 but stick girth is all I got goin for me
I agree there's always gunna be a compromise with anything but Ed surely can't think the real thing dances around on the ground with the tail wheel unlocked and also can I ask if you have tried this module recently in one of the missions as I feel it's inconsistency is between maps and conditions which obviously should be modeled but I think it's too extreme imo
Hey @casmo, Galactica81 here. I had the opposite issue with the tail rotor. Mine has too much thrust in flight. On ground have zero issues. New flight model my ass is all over literally due to thrust of rail rotor
I still don't understand what people are going on about. The Apache flies just fine. Yes the last patch made the tail thrust a little weird. Watching a lot of people flying around in the Apache, maybe practice? Like Casmo said it is all about your hardware and how good you are. Getting the correct setup is a huge difference in the way you fly.
Perfect would be as close to the actual flight characteristics of the actual aircraft as possible. It's close, it could be closer, and some people don't feel it's close enough. People can do what they want. I'm lost on why anyone would care about whether someone does or doesn't care. In any event, your vids are always appreciated.
The problem really is in how the mod reacts differrently on everyones setup an HOTAS. When it may fly more realistic for you, it may feel far from perfect on my set up.
Although as stated in the video i LOVE the new flight model way better then befor.
The tail rotor issue as you have described it, could be caused by another detail that needs work and only appear to be the tail rotor. Hopefully ED is trying to figure out what else could manifest in the way you showed.
I’m certain that they are.
Thanks Casmo for your continuous quality content.
Question tho: do you, having flown the actual Apache, feel VRS is overstimulated in DCS?
Thanks and keep it up
Only time I recall getting VRS in dcs Apache, I deserved it. So it felt right to me. In something like the Hip I think it’s wayyyy overdone. But I’ve never flown a hip so 🤷🏻♂️
Just a quick question, Egon. Are you sure it's VRS and not possibly a situation where your descent is just a little too quick for the power you have available to be able to arrest? The Apache is no lightweight, and there's always a limit to how much torque you can generate. 😉
The latter and VRS are commonly mistaken for each other, but they're not the same, obviously.
The latter is best avoided by keeping an eye on how much headroom you have in terms of torque available I guess.
It could be the latter too yeah lol
As someone who has done/does simulation development (albeit for cars), control setup should not be underestimated. It's the main reason why no sim really feels right. Less of a factor in fixed wing aircraft, a lot more of a factor in helos and cars.
Consumer sim devs are forced to develop the model for a wide variety of hardware and not just one or two sets of replica controllers which does lead to some massaging in some cases, hopefully not in a fundamentally unrealistic way.
FWIW the devs are likely not developing the model with replica controllers EITHER which really makes judging the transient behavior difficult for example.
you also got those with mouse and keyboard
I don't understand what all the fuss is about.
with the old flight model, I was able to take off, fly my way points and engage targets, fly back to the farp and land.
New flight model I can still do the same.
I don't get it.
which flight model do you want? Based on feel or based on what's written on paper.
I have no idea if that's a good analogy for trying to create a flight model.
Based on feel is based on nothing, as a gross oversimplification. Garbage in, garbage out. Lack of data is by default garbage. This is my experience doing car sim dev.
Unfortunately things like transient characteristics and human factors are difficult to express on paper in a readable format that one can use to correlate the model, so there is yet a place for feedback and testing by human pilots.
Also to take into consideration ; Papers are very much partial for military vehicules, even after decommissioning. So with a combat heli still in service..
And papers only work in the real world. No software is able to fully reproduce the real world conditions. Our games are faking the real world, and pushing the values would put our hardware down, just for clouds for instance.
Only kids or computer noobs think that a fully realistic sim ever existed. Those can uninstall and try again in 10 years, they wont be missed.
2:40 gamepad users with tiny thumbsticks 👀
The only way I’ll stop flying this is If and When PolyChop releases The KW
Is anyone else having an issue with the CPG not shooting the gun, or only shooting once (even when commanded to “Free fire”)no matter the range or speed?
Just need to adapt a litte bit based on our own controls and handling. ;)
I saw a video where an ah64 pilot passed the cyclic to a journalist. Who flew basic maneuvers without difficulty. It seems strange to me that it is so difficult to fly the dcs apache...
Seems strange to me that people think it’s difficult to fly the DCS Apache. 🤷🏻♂️ but I’m willing to bet the journalist didn’t land or take off.
@@CasmoTV Obviously no take off or landing. I don't know how reliable the flight module of Russian helicopters is, but they are much more docile to fly. I thought an Apache was state of the art technology, but as u say maybe I'm not at your level.. 🙄
Wise statement. Looks like you are a wise old man, as Socrates was. :D
A simple question, does real Apache have self centered cyclic or not, please? I know that the Huey doesn't have it but I am not sure about the Apache.
Thanks and good luck.
Old for sure. Wise… 🤷🏻♂️
No it doesn’t self center it has force trim that holds it
Ill fly it as longs as guys like you tell me its good, any armchair pilot, i don't care squat for their opinion
i'm not familiar with this. but i tried apache today for about 4 hours, i think it's ok.