Thank You very much. Pleasant to hear you converse. I'd say the most Maggie info in one sitting I've come across. Honest, real life experience accumulated over time.
As a Magnepan owner (MG 1.4) I do agree with Adrian. They do image, but in a different way than my KEF LS50 Metas. The soundstage on the other hand, my Maggies provide, is amazing, the best I have ever heard. Vilip goes "Yoda" regarding some cone speakers ... ha! ha! nice one! 🤣
I have had a pair of 1.7is for a number of years. Currently driving them with a PSAudio S300, certainly a cost-effective option. I mainly listen to acoustic music, classical, guitar, etc., so transparency and the natural sound of the instruments is more important to me than a thumping base. In my experience, the limiting factor determining the quality of the sound coming from the system is the quality of the source and source material. Upgrading to a high quality DAC made a huge difference. Also the quality of the recording. Pure DSD recordings (SACDs) have a three dimensional quality that most non-DSD recordings lack.
I have the LRS model, after two months of daily use, I got me a GR-Research x-over kit and braided speaker cable. Now my friends do a chef’s kiss when they listen to them.
Nice summary of the pros and cons of Magnepans. I purchased LRS and 1.7's from Audio Excellence a year ago when stock was available for a short time. The soundstage is definitely a strong point. I attended a lot of live concerts pre-pandemic and the concert hall sound is very close to the Maggies. if you prefer an up close analytical sound like in a recording studio they wouldn't be a good choice. I have assorted active and passive LS50's that I can use for that. For me at least, the Magnepan 1.7i with the Hegel H190 has become my favourite system of all the audio gear I've owned over the past 50 years. Many thanks to Adrian and the Audio Excellence crew for your great service and these informative videos.😇
Great insight! Thanks! I used to wonder about all the hype of maggies, then I brought the 3.6r and understood really quick after listening to them the first time! I don't know man, I'm no audio expert, but I know what I like, the impression left within me when I first heard them has never to this day been duplicated! So yes I'm a huge fan!
I picked up my LRS's from AE in July 2020 ("dirty" grey with cherry edges). I love the sound, yet all the opinions in the video are valid. I build my own stand from solid cherry wood that raises the speakers up by 8 inches and tilts them to be vertical. This certainly improves the sound quality in my room. From my seating position, my ears are now centred vertically on the speakers. I also happen to have a good amplifier giving me 300 watts per channel at 4 ohms with lots of current. I am a very happy listener.
Really interesting and informative video, thanks. The first rime I heard Maggies was in 1988. MG III's driven by Levinson 20.5 mono blocks. I think the speakers were about $1200 and amps $10K. It was an awesome combo and played loud!
You Guys are great. You are my favorite go to. I live in Minnesota, and I have a friend that works at the only place in Minnesota that offers their product. I've been waiting for about 6 mos. or so, and I hear it's still going to be a little while yet as well. I have the Hegel 390 running the LS50 Metas right now, and once everything has broken in, what a joy. I've always loved the electronic side of things more than the music. You can't change the music, but you can change the way it sounds, so that's the fun of electronics. Anyway, the combo I have right now is the 1st system I've ever owned where everything has blended to together into one harmonious presentation, both parts be equal. Adding a pair of the LRS will be an exciting addition for sure. Again, thanks for your show, and maybe one of these days we'll make it up your way. Take care!
Hey guys. Just wanted to say i love your videos and all the info in them. You are the best on youtube! You are so good in your vids. It is a shame you are in Canada and not England as i am. I would love to pop in and have a chat with you all. Keep up the good work.
Hi Vilip and Adrian, previously posted my comments earlier on one of your other videos in error. Love your videos. Seen so many interesting comments on this topic. I have been enjoying my Maggies 1.4s since the late 80s and driven by Classe 30 pre and 70 power amps. Power amp has high current capability. Great match, really enjoyable sound. No subs required as the bass can go down quite low. Plays all music genres quite comfortably via vinyl, cds and digital .
Hello, My name is Sacha Mattiolo from Montreal. I wanted to let you know that I’m the gentleman that won your speakers that you’ve sponsored for this year Audio show in Montreal. I was already setup with Dynaudio Contour 20. At first I didn’t even wanted to unboxed them but my buddy convinced me to have a go at them. I have put the speakers side by side to the Dynaudio to do a comparable. The system to drive the speakers are the Rotel pre amp RC1590 with the amp RB 1582 MKII (400 watts in 4 ohms). Source varies between Tidal via Audirvana trough Mac mini with Dynafrips Pontus II DAC or the new Rotel CD player RCD1572 MKII or Dual turntable. With two active Elac 3010 subs. The Verdi?….. Well I was blown away by the LRS…… I had bookshelf all my life (previously KEF 102 reference). But these speakers…. Wow! Next time I’m in Brampton I will pass by your store. I cannot thank you enough Sacha Mattiolo Ps it’s a funny coincidence that my Audio store is Codell (they are the distributor for Magnepan in Quebec). I deal with the owner Isadore Nudell.
Very interesting and informative review gentlemen. I enjoyed the discussion between yourselves immensly, Thank you all for making this availalble. Personally I have owned a pair of Magnepan MG12 QR,s in off white since 2003 and I just love them, I have listen to a range of Quad ESL63's , Martin Logans and a variety of very high quality box speakers but, for my ears, the Maggies have it. I do listen to a reasonably wide variety of music, as well as spoken word although not a great deal of orchestral and thrash rock 😉Of course; The Maganepans won't necessarily suite all music lovers tastes but, we are all different in our expectations and perceptions. I say; Long live the Maggies👍
Adrian of AE sold me on the 1.6QR in 2003. I still have them some 19 years later & love them. Thank you Adrian! They are powered by an Audio Research SP16L tube preamp & a VTL ST-150 tube power amp and accompanied by a Martin Logan Grotto i subwoofer. My 1.6QR's are off-white and as such are not too imposing in the room. I had no trouble integrating the subwoofer, the ML being a fast, made for music sub, keeps up with the 1.6's fast panel without any problem. I only hear the sub bass separately if I put my ear to it! The addition of the sub certainly made the 1.6's more dynamic. The Maggies are placed in the open (away from the back wall) for critical listening. I love their open, airy, live music sound & the way they energize the room. You cannot tell the sound is coming from the panel even though the panel is staring down at you. The soundstage is huge & imaging is good - perhaps not quite pin point imaging as a dynamic speaker but then you don't get the big sound effect of the panels either. I prefer the sound not be directed at me the way box speakers do. They play plenty loud - the volume never exceeding 1/4 of the way. Even box speakers have their limits as to how loud they play without compressing the sound. Of course ultra expensive speakers such as Wilson's take this to a whole other level. As far as value for money, we have to give Magnepan credit for keeping these speakers affordable. Dollar for dollar the 1.7's cost today is almost the same what I paid for the1.6's almost 20 years ago. Over the years I have tried box speakers in my system to see if I was missing anything but I always go back to the Magnepan panels.
Me too, I recently got back to my MG 1.4s. I do have an analogue system with tube preamplification and a Stellar S300 power amp. The Maggies are amazing for my taste. Apart from imaging not pin point they blow away any box speaker I have heard, regardless of price. I sewed new socks for them in french royal blue. They look beautiful and the WAF is quite high. From a certain distance off the back wall they really come to life. Love them. Btw. great discussion.
Being a Maggie fan for over 20 years (LRS,1.6, 1.7, 1.7i), this is the most comprehensive discussion I've ever heard about Maggies. Very honest guys but with big intellect. Listen up, future Maggie owners!
The most realistic sound I ever personally produced was using Cornwall IV's playing Eric Clapton unplugged. That literally sounded like they performance was in my living room. The scale, dynamics, vocals couldn't have gotten better to my ear. As great as those speakers are, they also have significant flaws. The horn did make itself known at times with certain tracks in the mid. Also, the finish was absolutely horrible for speakers at this price range. They didn't sound stage as good as typical speaker either but what they did well, they did exceptionally well.
When the 1.5R came out (yes, it had the true ribbon tweeter, not the "quasi-ribbon" tweeter currently used in the less expensive models) I bought a pair. Loved many things about the sound but finally had to admit to myself that my listening room was too small for them. These large panels have many strengths, but they have demands too.
I was one of the lucky ones that got LRS's from you (black/cherry). I'm enjoying them, although there is a long break in period. Not only for your speaker, but for you as well. The way these produce sound, especially bass is totally different than any cone speaker I've had and that does take a while to get used to. I have mine matched with a REL T5i sub and it's almost fast enough to keep up. Most times it will blend well but certain tracks will show the weakness . I'm curious to try a second or a new T5X ? Anyone tried one with the LRS ? Great video guys. Thanks. I enjoyed it.
Is it best to mount acoustical treatment panels on the walls behind these speakers? If so, what type of treatments would be a good starting point to help the speakers sound their best? Thanks
Have owned both 2.6R and 3.6R Magnepans and had a great experience with both. Totally agree with Vilip regarding amplification. I originally powered them using Sonic Frontiers Power 3 SE monos but switched to Pass Labs X600.5 monos and there was a big leap forward in performance. The Magnepans love current....lots of it. 😎
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt I used to think that also. But what you have to realize is that most other speakers, because they are not as close to flat resistance across the spectrum, have impedance swings all over the place. The Maggie would sit at 4 ohms like a dummy load demanding current across the spectrum. While convention speakers might have some low spot, rated load impedance, the impedance is often as high as 30ohms at some frequencies! And because of "True Power", reduced actual power consumption due to phase shifts between E and I which Maggies don't have as much of, ... So the amp is not forced to drive a 4 ohm load across the spectrum. Just at a few short spots across the band.
I have the LRS wired to a NAIM XS3, Tellurium Black II on MagnaRiser stands, standing on Isoacoustics mini-pucks. I’m using a single REL T/5i out of the dedicated sub RCA, positioned just off centre between the LRS. Replaced the stock fuses with Synergistic Research ORANGE fuses(!)… Agree that it’s hard to integrate the sub, but this set up works great. My room is 15’ x 12’ x 7’(h), and the LRS are about half way out into the room (I sit on one of the end walls, the LRS are at the end of and either side of my double bed…) Agree they don’t do everything well, but I can listen to this for 8-9hrs a time easily. Love your channel 👍 PS… also agree there is a sweet spot, around 10 /11 o’clock on the NAIM volume, beyond that the dynamics go. Also hate the binding posts, but not the end of the world. I had some Avalon Arcus once. They were a pain. Love the way they look also (I have light grey with oak trim)
Hey guys thanks for reviewing Magnepans. I am running an Audiolab 6000a with a Node 2I with the Magnepan SMG a. I have plenty of base I stopped using my Sub. So you do not need alot of power just the right combination / synergy and placement . I have mine 4 ft from wall 6 feet apart and sit 6 feet away.
Tympani T1-Ds are the only speakers i have ever owned that regularly induced goosebumps and brought tears to my eyes. I had the pair I three different homes. In two they were the best speakers I have ever had. In the third I could never get them to reproduce the same magic.....
I had them for 3 years ,I sold them because size was just to much for my new interior. So now I have a lrs ...I have to say the lrs tweeters are a step up from the Tympani. The actual size of the soundfield. Not much out there that matches a Tympani .
Great informative video. I paired my 1.7s with an affordable NAD 275BEE which has decent power and current. Any suggestions on amps that would be worth the cost now that I am thinking of replacing the NAD? I found the NAD to easily drive the Maggies to the volume levels I enjoy. I'm concerned that I might attempt to replace the NAD, spend a reasonable amount of money to do so, and not particularly improve the sound to any great extent if at all. Have thought about Naim, Parasound, but honestly love a tube sound and I'm thinking of the Doge pre-amp and Holo Sound Spring 3 DAC.
I have the 326BEE and I recently upgraded to crown xls 1502 (used from guitar center haha). I use the NAD as a preamp now and damn, let me tell you - the speed, resolution and dynamics completely opened up. I was underpowering my SMG-B's with the NAD alone. It was like night and day. what you'll notice is this - you can get as loud as you like with the NAD, but without giving it the power it really needs, that sound will be flat and without dynamics. it takes doubling of power to add 3db and so youll need 8 and 16x the power to get those noticeable dynamics
Their smaller wall-mount models on stands for 2.1 are really terrific. They also don't require as much amplification (though still 4 ohm is best), yet yield the same Maggie experience. Good for smaller rooms, imo.
Just saw this. Enjoyed it enormously. How well do you think the LRS will match the Primaluna Evo 400 pre and Power? Or any other tube based amplifiers? Thanks.
It will they are very linear impedance wise, they are just low sensetivity.. which requires somewhat more power (clean power) as you up the volume knob more than you think. Tubes I bet sound stellar
Great review. I bought the 1.6’s in 2004 from AE and later the 1.7’s. I like them because they don’t sound like a speaker in a box which I also own. For my ears it’s night and day difference. Regarding the downside of Magnepans needing/liking high powered amps, the opposite is true. One can spend more money on the amplification and then save money buying the Maggies rather than box speakers to get great sound. A lot of the cost goes to designing & building the box that doesn’t resonate which is why Maggies are less expensive. The speakers in a box that I like are out of my snack bracket. I use 45 watt tube amplifier and they sound fine to me. Always wondered if I should try a hi power solid state amp fed by my tube preamp. I don’t miss a subwoofer but that’s just me. For me imaging is good, but then I don’t listen to much orchestral music. Layering has good depth front to back. Adrian is right, voices & instruments are high in the soundstage and behind the speakers. Not the greatest speaker for low level listening. They sound best, i.e. project well when played louder. Low on the WAF but if you buy off white they tend to blend in with the curtains. Worst downside is if you have cats they are giant scratching posts for them. I made guards to wrap around to protect them. Not the best choice if you have young children with messy fingers touching the grill cloth. Cat guards work there too.
@@stephengordon1752 I’ve only ever used them with a Primaluna Prologue 5 with KT88’s, about 45 WPC. KT120’s sound a bit bolder, bigger but maybe not as sweet. Of course tube amp power numbers are not the same as SS. A lot of reviews recommend a high power SS amp and particularly fed from tube preamps. I prefer the sound of a tube amp. It’s personal choice and the type of music one listens to. I was curious whether my amp power was too low for these current hungry speakers. But when the sales rep played the Maggies the sound was stunningly more open, great on vocals compared to speakers in a box in this price range. You already familiar with their sound. Used Maggies are rarely for sale, often by owners who are upgrading, and they don’t stay on the market for long. What amp are you using?
@@TuffyAndBetty A NAD 275BEE was purchased at the same time as the Maggies to get me up and going. It is surprisingly good. I'm a bit stuck because I really can't be sure that an investment in a different (more expensive) amp is necessarily going to yield a noticeable difference. I listen at low'ish levels - and so a tube power amp may well be more practical in my case than for most. Thx for replying.
I have the 1.7s and for the longest time paired them with a Denon X series receiver and was happy to a point. Upgraded the 2 channel amp for the Maggie’s to a Moon 340i from Simaudio based on a recommendation from my dealer. Never thought an amp could have such a profound impact on the quality of audio but it’s like I purchased a brand new set of speakers and am hearing them for the first time. The Moon 340i is stunning with these speakers. FWIW I asked about, but didn’t listen to, pairing the Maggie’s with a Hegal 120 or 3x .. was told the Moon would pair better. I haven’t tried the Hegal to compare but the Moon certainly does wonders for them. Best of all, wife loves the Maggie’s too and everyone always comments about how cool and different they look.
You guys pretty much nailed it, thumbs up from me - line source presentation (Magnepan) vs a dynamic driver point source presentation - - they both can do certain things much better than the other - - ya want ya chest caved in with hyper imagining, impress ya buddies, better stay with dynamic driver point source, ya want boxless, transparent, coherent, awesome sound staging with real world height and more than adequate 3D imagining, better off with the maggies. The differences? Well, welcome to the real world of audiophile gear - - - btw, the big head thing that Vilip has complained about in earlier talks is something I've never noticed, that is, compared to the size of the other images within the sound stage, I've listened for that after Villip brought it up. Although I can't speak to the LRS's, the center image or head size of vocalists running 3.7i's of course varies, as one would expect, with the music source - not always, but generally scaled to the rest of the presentation - if you guys should decide to do more on Magnepans, would be cool to hear your takes on some of the higher end models too. Thanks!
@@vilipmak3973 Thanks Vilip, so cool that you took a moment to respond - - course this could easily turn into a "beating a dead horse thing" - - generally, I'm on point with you to put that on the table first - so, I don't doubt you're hearing what you describe - - I have a background in playing music, still have my union card and such, and having said that, quite a bit of recording experience, both armature and studio - we both know engineers will work on the spotlighted vocal - without going into details of what I mean, could that be what you're hearing? And yes, certainly part of this messing around does indeed make for a "larger" than life center image, singers want that - - so - - speaking about maggies in particular (I have no personal experience with the M.Logans) - - If I listen to an old early stereo recording, you know, recorded in two channels, but making the third or middle channel by combining the two outside channels, yes, that center image can come across as more pronounced - it's basically 2 channels combined - but, I can listen carefully to a ride cymbal coming from just one of those outer channels, and if one listens very closely to the actual image size of that cymbal, I find that cymbal size (I'm a drummer) isn't much different than the actual image size in the center although of course it's usually up in db level - - so I can't help but wonder if what you're talking about isn't, in reality, the speaker giving you what's actually there - - anyway, don't get me wrong - I never intended or care about going off the deep end about this issue, except that it made enough of an impression on me that, as you can tell, I explored it further - my system is reference in the sense of the gear itself, who the hell knows what reference really is - I'd hate to see a real world frequency graph of my room, so ya get me, I'm into music first, but I'm well over the 100k mark mostly because I'm into vinyl - so, having mentioned that - decades with the MGIIIa's (crazy modified by the end) and now probably heading into 4 years or so with the 3.7i's which yeah, I've begun messing with them too. And yes, along the way I've had considerable experience with dynamic coned point source too, I doubt in my lifetime we'll get to where one can have the outstanding features of both (maybe the maggie condos?) - but I just can't get by the box thing - over long periods, I've got to have panels and so I'll give up that wonderful visceral thing that a nice set of Focals or Wilsons will give ya. Thanks man, love what you guys do on your channel - Later, Skip
Nice to see a discussion about Magnepans. I have a pair of 1.7 Maggies that I got in near new condition for nearly half price from the Australian supplier. The sales pitch was that the previous owner loved them so much, he brought them back so he can upgrade to the 3.7s. We all heard that one before. The problem is, I love them so much that I want to send them back and upgrade to the 3.7 Magnepans. There's nothing wrong with them except they're addictive and now I want more. When you talk about the need for good gear to get the best from them, I find it dark humour that I have a A$40,000 system running a pair of speakers that cost me A$2,000. So far I have found no comparison tests between the 1.7 and the 3.7 and you seem to have experience with both. Any thoughts you have on these speakers as comparison would be appreciated as I cannot audition the 3.7s. Do the 3.7s need more beef from an amp than the 1.7s? I'm driving the 1.7s with a Luxman m700u. This would be a great comparison to do as it matches up the dearest of the low end Maggies to the cheapest of the high end. It would be interesting to see what we get beyond that price jump.
Would you say, if a standard sub is difficult to integrate with the LRS, what about a Open Baffle servo sub would they fair better ? ( like the ones from GR Research )
I have a pair of .7 (black with cherry, as mentioned in the video) driven by a First Watt SIT-3. When I auditioned them, the dealer would not let me try them with my amp. Instead, they had some class D amp hooked up. Can't remember the power rating, but had to be a couple hundred watts a side. It struggled, particularly in the low end. David Crosby's 'If Only I Could Remember My Name' sounded anemic and distorted. I still purchased them. Good news is that the First Watt's current capability drives them perfectly. The old adage about finding an amp that doubles wattage between the 8 and 4 ohm rating is probably sound (no pun intended), but Nelson's amp does very well. The presentation is uber-holographic. So, finding the appropriate amplifier is definitely a must. You are limited in options. I would love to find tube amp that works as well as the Pass. I'm using an Audible Illusions 3B preamp which does add a lot of tube color and goodness. I should comment on the low end: I'm a professional bassist (electric and upright). I've never heard a speaker more truthfully reproduce those instruments. I listen to a lot of acoustic music and can't conceive ever buying a box speaker again. No, they don't reach the low octave, but I'm really not missing it! Snare drum SOUNDS like a snare drum. Will I upgrade speakers? Only when I find a larger listening room. The upgrade will most likely be another panel (Eminent or Analysis), or Quad 57s. 3.7 or higher will always be on my wish list.
i upgraded from some 30+ year old B&W matrix 3s to the LRS. i did not like what i was hearing at first, but i have warmed up to them and/or they have "broken in." on certain material the highest frequencies seem somewhat recessed, and they lack the sparkle of a true ribbon, but they are not as dull as they sounded to me when i first got them. they have an uncanny ability to uncover details i've never noticed before in a lot of tracks - sounds or elements that are quieter than the lead/bass/drums. also, they really bring to light the interactions/harmonics in complex chords - diminished 7th, 9th/13th etc. no speaker is perfect but they do a lot of things so well, i'm staying put for the foreseeable future.
I totally agree with Adrian when he says he dislikes the lack of soundstage height on a lot of point-source speakers. When many years ago I listened to the vaunted Vandersteen 5, with its soundstage barely taller than the speaker itself, I was very disappointed and could never forget it. I remember loving the original Eggleston Andra, a relatively short and home-friendly speaker, because it could throw a soundstage as high as the ceiling if the recording allowed it. This is also the case of the DeVore Orangutan O/96, a speaker that is less than a meter tall but whose soundstage has good height. The smaller Wilsons do that too, also the small Neat speakers (Iota, Xplorer), and most recently the FinkTeam KIM. I'm sure there are others.
The way I have my 1.7i maggies setup, driven by a mytek brooklyn bridge and parasound jc 5, they have very good layering and separation, if not pin point imaging. I setup using the sumiko method modified by Ron Burrell’s LOTS method. Once I get that close I use the wilson audio concept of voweling to do final placement. Maggies rock, especially if you gain stage according to Benchmark audio published methodology.
I have the 1.7i's and they're driving me crazy, terribly muffled in the upper mid bass region for some reason. I keep trying and failing to make them sound good and I'm not sure where I'm going wrong. I have decided it must be my room, but I've not heard of that placement method so I'll give that a go. Thanks.
Totally agree with the guy that explains the imaging with height and space instead of pin point. I think I prefer that as well. Maggies are starting to win for me.
On the topic of pairing subwoofers with Magnaplaners, after 20 years with my 2.5's I decided to try a REL sub as an experiment. Adding a T9i took some time to integrate with my speakers but with substantial tweeking I was able to get the sub to match up beautifully with the panels. The speed of the REL pairs nicely with the 2.5's and adds more dimension and space to the system especially in the mid-bass and of course much more in the lower registers. With this setup I cannot tell there is a sub in the system.
Over the years, I have heard that rel subs are one of the few and best at pairing with Maggie's. I'm assuming your using the high pass to match the amps bass with the subs bass?
I have set up my ,7’s and got the soundstage without the imaging just like what Vilip said. I have Tektons, horn loaded JBl”s. And a pair of Yamaha NS500m studio monitors. All these image very very well with the Yamaha ns 500m the best of all. So I’m very well accustomed to great imaging in all directions but I have to disagree with Vilip because I have also set up the Magnapan’s in situations and have gotten really really good imaging .
Hello, I know this is an older review but I just went through auditioning LRS+'s and couldn't get them to sound right to save my life. I was using an older, Emotiva A/B 200wpc and a newer Nilai Hypex. They sounded smooth but were missing micro details (triangles, bells) that I know are in my reference tracks that are clearly audible on apogee ribbons (which I unfortunately sold several years ago) and my Custom Salk /ESS speaker (full size 12lb. Heils). Even putting my ear up to the panel I still could hear the mssing details. When I ran a Dirac there wasn't any thing obvious other than the top roll off. At any rate any recommendations for Speakers under 6K that have the resolution of the Apgee's? Am I missing something? Thanks!
I've owned several speakers in my audio life. The one that I miss the most is the Acoustat 1+1 Medallion mod. It did have it's limitations, the reason for me selling them many years ago to get Von Schweikert VR4's, but I do miss their "presentation" of sound. A friend had at the time Maggie MG2B's. They were nice, but not Acoustats. Sad that the company no longer exists.
I went and heard the large Acoustats once. They were truly amazing. I don't think speakers that utilize a woofer for the low end, like the Martin Logans can come close to matching them. But you need a VERY large panel to any any bass out of them at all. I expect doubling them up, side by side, killing the highs in one pair, would have made them. And nothing is an electrostatic speaker except an eletrostatic speaker. The best sound I've ever heard was my Signet TK33 headphones, which were electrets (same thing but the stators are not externally powered). They sounded basically like you 'were there', and you could listen to them basically all day long, even at high levels, and still they were totally non fatiguing. The 2Bs are a LONG way from the Maggies of today. Now they have ribbon conductors, rather than wires, and a true ribbon line source for the tweeter. The panels are also larger, what was the tweeter before and plays midrange now is about twice the area. The tweeters were really puny in the high end before, not so these, still pretty much full up at 40 khz, which doesn't matter so much, but the older tweeters were basically gone at 14 khz, which very much does. If you haven't heard any of the modern mid to high end Maggies, go take a listen. They are light years beyond the 2Bs, which I've also owned, and the SMGs, and originally, an MG1 system. I don't mean a little difference in sound, but a MAJOR difference in sound. It is not something you have to have any kind of 'golden ears' to hear the difference.
@@MrJdsenior I certainly would hope that the improvement in sound over the MG 2B's would be major. I was comparing from that era and comparing it to what I considered the speaker system that I missed the most. The 2B's at the time were driven by all Bryston system. It was replaced by the Acoustat's, which he later went with the Martin Logan CLS of that day and Audio Research gear. I stayed with the Acoustat's and all Counterpoint gear. I liked the sound with the VPI HW19, Koestsu Black Goldline cart. I am retired now, moved from NYC to Poland, and had to downsize. So while I know there is better gear than I have now, I am content with the sound and enjoy what I am listening to. But still miss the Acoustat's.
What is your experience of soundstage and image of Focal Kanta with beryllium tweeters. Can you hear violin from one sideand horns from the other side?
The Kanta is a fine speaker. Soundstages well and has enough forward edge detail to sometimes become etchy and sharp despite somewhat exquisite pinpoint imaging. That said, the Kanta has always surprised me as I have always expected undue brightness but I have heard it with Naim amplification and it was very smooth
As a former owner of a pair of Maggie 1.7i, I agree with all that was discussed except for one thing: subwoofers. A lot of Maggie owners are in denial about or just don’t know what they are missing when it comes to bass. Magnepans do not provide adequate sub bass. They do not have any percussion to their bass and no bass slam. I added a pair of REL T/9i subs to my pair of 1.7i. It wasn’t hard to integrate them contrary to what Vilip said, and they made a HUGE positive difference in my system. It was massive. IMO Maggies should *always* be paired with subs. The other thing is that Maggies should be considered a foundation upon which to make substantial improvements. The subs are one essential improvement. The other is replacing the jumper and fuse with for instance the Mike Powell silver upgrade which replaces the stock lousy fuse and the stock steel plate jumper with a silver tube (not fuse) and silver jumper. In my system this upgrade increased definition and the highs. Having good aftermarket bases also helps. It’s a platform for improvements and tweaks.
REL and Sonus faber subs which are connected to the amplifier output are two of the few subs that can integrate ok with Maggies. IMHO, subs are optional. And tight seamless integration will always be a challenge. With Maggies, I always hear the crossover to the sub.
Wow guys this discussion could not come at a better time for me, I've been wanting to get into panel speakers for while and Maggies have been one of the options, although they don't seem to be quite so prevalent here in Australia. Any thoughts on which model would be a good match with an Audio Research D115 or VT100 amplifiers? Thanks
Start at least with 1.7i. 3.7i if you can swing it. The entire sitting/ standing/ tilt angle goes away. The 3.7i moves to a true rather than "quasi" ribbon tweeter.
@@glenncurry3041 thanks for the tip, I've had other people also recommending 1.7 as a good starting point. I'll keep an eye on what becomes available here in Australia. Cheers
@@glenncurry3041 Do you think my space (26 x 22 x 15 ft high) is too big for the 1.7i? I don't care about (or even like) thumping bass, but I do love soundstage height. I want an immersive experience with classical orchestral music. I'm hoping the 1.7i will work, as 3.7i are a huge $$ jump, but . . .
@@issadad The 1.7i should work great in that space as long as you have good amps. My space is 34'x'40'17' with a 8' wall breaking it into to 20'x34' spaces (Kit/Din ... living room) So mine is similar in some aspects for the actually listening room. Positioning is critical. A couple inches this way, that... a few degrees of rotations,... But once locked in, the sound stage height/ depth/ performers locations/ ... should blow you away!
@@glenncurry3041 Can't begin to tell you how grateful I am for this reply, especially since there's nobody in Maine. So 1st: in my chair with head tilted back, my eyes (even closed) look up at abt 30˚ angle, as if looking up toward a stage, and that's where I expect to see/hear the music, in my "line of sight" -- not 3 ft off the floor, where the singer is standing in an orchestra pit. 2nd: I don't seem to care about or even like chest-thumping low bass slam, which typically sounds like an artificial machine effect as opposed to a real musical instrument, say kettle drums at a symphony concert. So the whole sub-woofer conversation is one I'd prefer to avoid. And so: if big band Beethoven and small combo Diana Krall, both played pretty loud, can sound goosebump immersive and detailed, that's all I ask. Now you know me, nice to meet you. I'm trying to decide btwn: 1) 1.7i (perfect size + price), 2) 3.7i (big $ jump but better ribbon tweeter and maybe better for my space?) and 3) one of the open baffle jobs from Spatial Audio Labs (M3 Sapphire or X series, great open sound and more dynamic than Maggies but only 45" tall). Klipsch Cornwall IVs were also on the short list briefly, and I definitely love the GR Research DIY NX-tremes (NX-Oticas too) but I can't even build an IKEA spice rack. That said, I'd be inclined with either Maggie model to pick up the GR Research upgrade kit and find somebody to install it. So one cocksure expert warned that Maggies wd sound like transistor radios in my 10,000 cu ft room, but another expert (in this thread) says that the 3.7i eliminates all the beaminess & downside issues of the 1.7i. Then you replied, more encouraging. Re: amplification, my short list for now includes: Hegel H190, McIntosh 2300, Parasound A21+ w somebody's tube preamp, Line Magnetic LM-508 IA, used Audio Research DSi200, McIntosh MAC 6700 Receiver, Vincent Audio SV-237 Mk II. Or...? Thomas Tan (Thomas & Stereo channel) says Maggies do fine w solid state bcse they're already airy enough w/out tubes. My space is not overly live, I have a big shag rug for the rig, but I'm not wild abt sound treatments unless absolutely essential. Any thoughts? Am in Portland, ME. And thanks!
Good review, very informative. In the ugly comments section, however, maybe 30 years is the life of the Magnepan flat panels but my CC3 center channel delaminated in 10 years and all I got from Magnepan was a "what's your problem, they lasted 10 years, what you want?"
I have a small room (10'x12') and wonder if the LRS+ are a good choice for that room. I have always been a big box/tower type in much larger rooms and in the past haven't had the money to get too adventurous in my purchases, I like to stick to proven things I am familiar with. Now money isn't really the issue, but I do have a budget and don't want to waste it. I have Elac Debut reference DBR62, which are really nice and definitely would do the job. Actually, I have several speakers and like to swap them out for a change of pace. Are they worth it or should I look at something higher end in a conventional speaker? I am working my way to high end but am moving one level at a time. For this room I plan on an RME ADI 2 DAC fs, a Schiit Freya +N preamp and a set of Schiit Tyr amps. I haven't bought the new amps yet, I am also considering a pair Schiit Vidar 2, I haven't decided yet. I really like the Schiit preamp so I figure it will match best with the Schiit amps. Anyway, any thoughts on best speakers for small rooms with this setup.
Unless you like to listen to music at a high volume, I think you will be fine. I have LRS+ in a 16'x 22' room and am more than happy; just make sure you give them space from the front wall. I have the Freya+ and run 2 Vidar2.s as monoblocks (Schiit only publishes 8 ohm spec.s on their website when used as monoblocks. I went to visit them at the Schiitr and they said it will be OK as they used this setup with their 1.7i.s; you can confirm this with a phone call to them), and i have 2 sub.s. My recommendation to you would be to get two Vidar2.s (vs the Tyrs) and use the extra money to get 2 "fast" subs; Magnepan recommends REL T5/X. If I had the budget, I would get the Tyrs. Best of fun on your journey!
@@pfunk34 right on, I own a couple subs but I doubt they will be up to the task. Rels are sweet, I was already considering them. Subs are definitely in the budget but, may be down the road a couple months. I can only spend so much at a time, I got a wife, lol. Thanks for the feedback.
Wonderful discussion but I certainly achieved a great match with my JL Audio Fathom 112v2 subwoofer. Seamless sound. The sub adds just that extra bit of punch and depth when called upon but you can’t even tell it’s there.
That's not a line source tweeter. It has a large central tweeter panel that occupies the entire middle of the speaker. The 63 in fact introduces a delay circuit spiraling into the center of the speaker to mimic a point source. The Quad 63 as a result images.
@@vilipmak3973 Agreed, I've used them for over 30 years. What I'm saying is that it's not even remotely close to a point source. yet it still provides state of the art imaging. A true line source like a Magneplanar's long ribbon can also deliver excellent imaging. Imaging is determined primarily by the amplitude and phase relationship between the left and right speakers. Comb filtering caused the difference in arrival time between the center of the ribbon, and the extreme top and bottom of the driver, causes a long line source to behave increasingly like a point source at higher frequencies.
As a former owner, one of the (3.7’s) issues for me was fussy positioning. I also found them lacking in dynamics for home theater applications (but part of that could have been due to an underpowered amp). They were excellent for pop music however.
I've had many maggies mgI, mgII, mgIIIa, mmg, Tympani I and today the lrs. The reason why I went smaller, I wanted a full quasi ribbon planar, smaller and something new. I grown tired of fixing my older models... My biggest gripe with maggies is the lack of dynamics (especially on the low end) . However i do feel today, subwoofers have caught up. Even in the lower budget you can find subs that will do well with them. I digress, the lrs really pleasant and a big change from what I am used to hearing. From my other traditional planar drivers. Especially the tweeter sections are lot better on the lrs. It doesn't posses the forwardness I dislike of the mgIIIa true ribbons. I could not get used to, that over the top articulated sound of them. But I also,doesn't posses the to tame rolled off upper end of my older maggies. It's actually what i always missed with my older ones. Super musical with zero fatique. But at cost of upper end detail. The lrs covers it! I really love them so far
Will Maggie 1.7i's sound good in a very large room: 26 x 22 x 15ft high? I can place them on the long wall, about 3-4 ft into the room, 8-10 ft apart. Nice 9-10 ft equilateral triangle on a rug surrounded by air on both sides and above. Can anybody answer this question? (Like Adrian, I want floor to ceiling soundstage height.) Thanks.
Yes… that height comment with the Yoda reference! That is why I love my Maggies. And the speed, the non-fatigue…. And yes on the comment on live situations….
I owned them for a few months. They were amazing for some things and the imaging is no joke. Ultimately I sold them because they had terrible dynamics and the sound would change so much with even the slightest turn of the head. I was listening more to the speaker than the music. Listening to my favorite tracks they just sucked all the joy out of them.
In my experience with Magnapan speakers in multiple rooms and setups, good imaging is accomplished by setup (placement) that exploits the acoustic synergy between speaker and room.
And again as we explained - not really imaging although of sorts, kinda - but generally there can be a deep and layered soundstage. Soundstage is not imaging. Imaging exists within a soundstage.
@@MichelLinschoten Its not semantics. There is a difference between what is soundstaging and what is imaging. And it is easily discerned in a system that truly does both - and this is just what audiophiles desire. Audio Engineers are fine and they have their own criteria, just not the criteria of an Audiophile.
I use the Hegel 390 with the 1.7i's and its amazing . The difference from the 390 with 590 you can check on this channel also , they made a video about it.
@@vilipmak3973 i forgot , accoring to hegel the 390 has better digital inputs and as for the magnepans; the stock fuses are also a "bad" imo. If you upgrade to silver fuses is like lifting a haze from the sound or unplugging your ears.
I keep hearing that the LRS (and Magnepans in general) are difficult to pair with a sub. I had some Tympani 1Ds back in the 90s so I'm pretty familiar with the Magnepan sound. After being without them for about 25 years, I recently bought a pair of LRS and they pair fantastically with the 2X8" Emotiva SE8 subs I already had. The way I have them set up, they add just a touch of low end, sort of a scaffolding for what's coming from the mains, but I don't perceive the presence of the subs... I obviously know they are there but I don't "notice" them, in other words, they pair just fine in my room and to my ear. Guys, thanks for this review! I love how you articulate the differences between sound stage and imaging and I completely agree with it in terms of what I hear coming from mine. In fact, I watch so many reviews of current box speakers and what they do, I recently hooked up my Rega ELAs and have been listening to them to sort of compare box vs. panel. Next, I'm going to hook up the DCM QEDs I was listening to right before I got the LRS and I'm again looking forward to comparing and contrasting panel > box. And, I'm even thinking of getting something newer, maybe LS50 or Elac or ?? for further comparison. Thanks again for all your reviews!
Great discussion. I’ve had my .7i for about a year. They are deceptively loud, IMO, but they lack a visceral impact like a box speaker. I miss that sometimes. I also agree the binding posts (and cross-overs!) and the stands are bad. I know their philosophy is thatimproved stands and posts don’t have sonic value. Big missed opportunity for them I think.
they put the money where it matters most, in the speaker. from there you can do any upgrades you want, as you see fit. it's crazy that they are losing money on the LRS; it has exceeded my expectations after an uncertain break in period. when i have the space i will definitely upgrade to the 1.7 or better
@@cabasse_music right. But you can’t get factory upgrades. Missed opportunity for them I think. And they lose money on LRS not because people aren’t buying them - they cost too much to make! I think they really underestimated how popular they would be.
The point Adrian makes is absolutely correct. My cone speakers at times has the performer 3 feet off the ground. It’s more like you’re in nose bleed section way up. When I heard some Apogees. Wow. They were of course tall so the sound stage is high and above you. It just has more full horizontally also. Of course planar ribbon type lack bass and wear and degrade over time. Definitely moving speakers away from the wall creates nice sound stage. I’m not a fan of horn speakers myself. Most practical are cone with rubber surrounds. My Paradigm Studio 60’s are nearly 25 years old. Good as new. Would just like to raise the sound stage.
@@rb032682 thanks for the suggestion but currently the tweeter position is at ear level when sitting on the sofa. Do you recommend raising above ear level? I have a center channel speaker not in use. I have though of pointing upward behind flat screen TV to perhaps give a more higher sound stage. Any reasons not to do this?
@@f430ferrari5 - I would say "try it". Unless it is too difficult to place the center speaker behind the screen, it's worth a try. Experiment as desired. The worst that can happen is the accumulation of knowledge and experience. If you can raise your speakers above ear level without causing any risk to you or the speakers, try it. I have a pair of my speakers about 12 inches above ear level with the speakers tilted enough to align the tweeters with my ears. I don't think much about the height of the soundstage. Do you have any acoustical treatment? I have treatment of various types on all 6 room surfaces. Mostly absorption with a variety of diffusion devices.
When you say that these are not fast enough, to have subwoofers to accompany them, do you mean that at the bare minimum you would always need to get Rel subs with high level connection?
I have 0.7 in bedroom, using them like they are sound bar for TV sound only, I listen to your channel via these 0.7 driven by NAD C338. It is Ok for this duty. For music I have 1.7i driven by Krell New K300i which Amazing sound while They caused the Krell to be overheat at loud level. I also have 3.7i driven by huge Moon monoblock and they can go really loud on orchestral, sold the 3.7i later. Hate the cheapish speaker terminals, I replaced them on 1.7i with Cardas binding posts and bypassing both fuses and resister terminals too.
i listening music so loud ,i blow few pairs of fuse at the first days until i replace the fuse by a metal stick ,finally it can play so loud this may crazy but it work ,maggie vocal sound are perfect
Great discussion. But I don't agree that magnepans are hard to pair with a sub, as some other people have noted as well. I have a pair of LRS paired with a REL, and at least for me the integration is seamless, and it was easy. I'm also using a ceramic fuse, and stands and crossovers from Magnariser, and the overall effect is genuinely spellbinding. Comparing this setup to a pair of KEF LS50s, I don't feel the LRS (plus add-ons) lack dynamism. And the LRS better the LS50s on every other measure. Transparency, imaging, soundstage height and depth, etc. This is not a night and day situation. But I find noticeable improvements across the board. And that's not a small statement. Properly set up the LS50s are phenomenal speakers, and it took me a long time to find something under 5x the cost of the LS50s that I thought I wanted to own. I used both sets of speakers with a Rogue Audio Sphinx at first and more recently with a Topping Pre 90 and a 450w March Audio class D power amp. I mainly listen to vinyl using a Hana ML cartridge, an EAT B Sharp table, a vintage Entre SUT and a tweaked Icon Audio PS1. In my small listening room, the LRS sound best almost pointing directly at each other, with the REL T7i between them. The tweeters are 120cm from the front wall, 190cm apart and 160cm from the listening position. For everybody's reference. This system gives me huge joy and easy to see me resisting the temptation to tweak much /anything for at least a couple of years. Although some open baffle speakers... 🙄
Vilip is correct about the LRS. My LRS have a great sound stage but poor imaging. My LS50’s on the other hand have great imaging but a so-so sound stage. My JBLs are somewhere in between.
I agree. I Love my LS-50s for what they do, but the lack of a reasonably sized soundstage seems to rob music of much of its context. So then I hook up my MMGs with raised & properly angled stands. Ultimately I think I favor staging over image specificity, or rather I miss staging more than I miss pinpont imaging. But I'm keeping both.
Vilip needs to try vinyl so detail actually exists! When I demo my 1.7i to people, I promise them to have the artist standing in front of them! Exactly like Adrian says, performers are in a SPACE, not a point/ line 3ft off the ground. You can see the entire face. A piano spreads across the sound field as an object. Not a thin line. Objects exist in a 3d space. Not a 2d line. But they take extreme placement adjustments. I find a twist of just a couple degrees can move the sound field up and down. Distance between them develops the over all system frequency response. At times I even find nulls that destroy the response curve. You have to think of them as drivers and the room is the cabinet. After not having Maggies for decades when I first got my 1.7i my oldest son, also an audiophile, after 10 seconds of listening he said he now knows what is wrong with every other (cone) speaker he has ever heard.
Someone here in the comments mentioned a tool 🔧to tighten & loosen the speaker cable binding post that works better than the cheap/flimsy tool that the manufacturer provides ( a ball something or other) Does anyone know what it's called? I imagine any hardware store will have them. Thanks
My comment on this review is that it is almost entirely a review on Magnepan LRS or .7s. I have to point out that you are not discussing the best of the Magnepan models. Also the larger Magnepans have good base. My 20.1s are rated down to 25 Hz. I do have two McIntosh MC402s in mono mode driving them, but they have plenty of bass down to pretty low frequencies. I would also say the larger maggies may have better imaging with the true ribbon tweeters. So I would like to hear this review re-done but based on the 3.7i and the 20.7. Even the 30.7s. You are selling electronics that are plenty expensive and you should be willing to have the big maggies reviewed with those electronics. By the way with the maggies binding posts if you use a ball driver they are easy to loosen and tighten.
With Maggies, the specification does not tell the entire story. Your 20.1 may be rated to 25 Hz and yet the panel will still only move so much and are still SPL limited. For real bass, the visceral and slam cannot be missing.
@@vilipmak3973 I don't know what the SPL limit is because I have never found it, and played louder than I am comfortable with. As for bass slam, what you said is true, but the bass extension is there, and the bass is good.
One important aspect that was not brought up (no pun intended) is the need to get rid of the factory "feet" and get the Maggies off the floor with aftermarket stands. As an example, at 18:42 you can see an example of 'Magna Risers' fitted. There are others out there and I do not know which brand Adrian recommends. Adrian??
I enjoy my .7s with a Rogue Sphinx, but agree they only go so loud. Then I slapped a decibel meter on them in my listening room and realized I thought 85 dB is LOUD. That’s just what I hear. And probably why I take ear plugs to movies. It’s all so personal. So one person’s “must-have” is the next person’s “so what.” Since acquiring these speakers and amp, I’ve upgraded my sources and feel I hear every improvement these better sources offer. That’s a real testament to their quality, and that’s what I think audiophile means. They ARE audiophile grade.
This is a good discussion on Magnepans but it seems so weird to have a dealer seeming dumping on them? I tried the LRS many years ago but didn't wasn't impressed as it sound thin and bright. Probably didn't have a good amp and needed more burn-in.
I paired my 1.6 magnapans with my Macintosh C 2300. It would play so loud it would make my ears bleed. There is something about that particular amplifier that will excite the magies to very high levels of volume. And a regular 150 W per channel amplifier will not do the same thing.
Regarding the horrord binding posts, you can upgrade the crossover with GR Research which incorporates their tube connectors, so does away with the originals.
Excellent conversation. I had a pair of LRS paired with a Vincent SP-331 and it was a nice combo. I think I would have kept them really long term but someone offered me more than list for them due to the wait time....So, off they went.
Thank You very much. Pleasant to hear you converse. I'd say the most Maggie info in one sitting I've come across. Honest, real life experience accumulated over time.
always enjoy your discussions.great format.
Really excellent review with many facts and opinions that were well considered. Unusual for audiophiles!
Thanks for going that into depth. Ive been very curios about these for sometime.
As a Magnepan owner (MG 1.4) I do agree with Adrian. They do image, but in a different way than my KEF LS50 Metas. The soundstage on the other hand, my Maggies provide, is amazing, the best I have ever heard. Vilip goes "Yoda" regarding some cone speakers ... ha! ha! nice one! 🤣
You are on point about everything regarding the Magnepan LRS. 👏🏼👌🏼👍🏼
I have had a pair of 1.7is for a number of years. Currently driving them with a PSAudio S300, certainly a cost-effective option. I mainly listen to acoustic music, classical, guitar, etc., so transparency and the natural sound of the instruments is more important to me than a thumping base. In my experience, the limiting factor determining the quality of the sound coming from the system is the quality of the source and source material. Upgrading to a high quality DAC made a huge difference. Also the quality of the recording. Pure DSD recordings (SACDs) have a three dimensional quality that most non-DSD recordings lack.
I have the LRS model, after two months of daily use, I got me a GR-Research x-over kit and braided speaker cable. Now my friends do a chef’s kiss when they listen to them.
With subwoofers?
@@FilipinaVegana yeah an svs sub for the party and off when I do critical listening as the bass lags behind.
Nice summary of the pros and cons of Magnepans. I purchased LRS and 1.7's from Audio Excellence a year ago when stock was available for a short time. The soundstage is definitely a strong point. I attended a lot of live concerts pre-pandemic and the concert hall sound is very close to the Maggies. if you prefer an up close analytical sound like in a recording studio they wouldn't be a good choice. I have assorted active and passive LS50's that I can use for that.
For me at least, the Magnepan 1.7i with the Hegel H190 has become my favourite system of all the audio gear I've owned over the past 50 years.
Many thanks to Adrian and the Audio Excellence crew for your great service and these informative videos.😇
Thanks very much!
Great insight! Thanks! I used to wonder about all the hype of maggies, then I brought the 3.6r and understood really quick after listening to them the first time! I don't know man, I'm no audio expert, but I know what I like, the impression left within me when I first heard them has never to this day been duplicated! So yes I'm a huge fan!
I own a pair of Magnepan LRS powered by an Apt Amp1 by Tomlinson Holman. The speakers are AMAZING. Great job Magnepan!
I picked up my LRS's from AE in July 2020 ("dirty" grey with cherry edges). I love the sound, yet all the opinions in the video are valid. I build my own stand from solid cherry wood that raises the speakers up by 8 inches and tilts them to be vertical. This certainly improves the sound quality in my room. From my seating position, my ears are now centred vertically on the speakers. I also happen to have a good amplifier giving me 300 watts per channel at 4 ohms with lots of current. I am a very happy listener.
Good for you!
Really interesting and informative video, thanks. The first rime I heard Maggies was in 1988. MG III's driven by Levinson 20.5 mono blocks. I think the speakers were about $1200 and amps $10K. It was an awesome combo and played loud!
You Guys are great. You are my favorite go to. I live in Minnesota, and I have a friend that works at the only place in Minnesota that offers their product. I've been waiting for about 6 mos. or so, and I hear it's still going to be a little while yet as well. I have the Hegel 390 running the LS50 Metas right now, and once everything has broken in, what a joy. I've always loved the electronic side of things more than the music. You can't change the music, but you can change the way it sounds, so that's the fun of electronics. Anyway, the combo I have right now is the 1st system I've ever owned where everything has blended to together into one harmonious presentation, both parts be equal. Adding a pair of the LRS will be an exciting addition for sure. Again, thanks for your show, and maybe one of these days we'll make it up your way. Take care!
Hey guys. Just wanted to say i love your videos and all the info in them. You are the best on youtube!
You are so good in your vids. It is a shame you are in Canada and not England as i am. I would love to pop in and have a chat with you all. Keep up the good work.
Well done gentlemen!
Nice review guys enjoyed this one. l have ever had anything to do with magnepans but I'm curious now.🎧🙂👍
Hi Vilip and Adrian, previously posted my comments earlier on one of your other videos in error. Love your videos. Seen so many interesting comments on this topic. I have been enjoying my Maggies 1.4s since the late 80s and driven by Classe 30 pre and 70 power amps. Power amp has high current capability. Great match, really enjoyable sound. No subs required as the bass can go down quite low. Plays all music genres quite comfortably via vinyl, cds and digital .
Hi Melvin!
I have a pair, and they're magnificent.
Hello,
My name is Sacha Mattiolo from Montreal.
I wanted to let you know that I’m the gentleman that won your speakers that you’ve sponsored for this year Audio show in Montreal.
I was already setup with Dynaudio Contour 20.
At first I didn’t even wanted to unboxed them but my buddy convinced me to have a go at them.
I have put the speakers side by side to the Dynaudio to do a comparable.
The system to drive the speakers are the Rotel pre amp RC1590 with the amp RB 1582 MKII (400 watts in 4 ohms). Source varies between Tidal via Audirvana trough Mac mini with Dynafrips Pontus II DAC or the new Rotel CD player RCD1572 MKII or Dual turntable. With two active Elac 3010 subs.
The Verdi?….. Well I was blown away by the LRS…… I had bookshelf all my life (previously KEF 102 reference). But these speakers…. Wow!
Next time I’m in Brampton I will pass by your store.
I cannot thank you enough
Sacha Mattiolo
Ps it’s a funny coincidence that my Audio store is Codell (they are the distributor for Magnepan in Quebec). I deal with the owner Isadore Nudell.
Very interesting and informative review gentlemen. I enjoyed the discussion between yourselves immensly, Thank you all for making this availalble. Personally I have owned a pair of Magnepan MG12 QR,s in off white since 2003 and I just love them, I have listen to a range of Quad ESL63's , Martin Logans and a variety of very high quality box speakers but, for my ears, the Maggies have it. I do listen to a reasonably wide variety of music, as well as spoken word although not a great deal of orchestral and thrash rock 😉Of course; The Maganepans won't necessarily suite all music lovers tastes but, we are all different in our expectations and perceptions. I say; Long live the Maggies👍
Adrian of AE sold me on the 1.6QR in 2003. I still have them some 19 years later & love them. Thank you Adrian! They are powered by an Audio Research SP16L tube preamp & a VTL ST-150 tube power amp and accompanied by a Martin Logan Grotto i subwoofer. My 1.6QR's are off-white and as such are not too imposing in the room. I had no trouble integrating the subwoofer, the ML being a fast, made for music sub, keeps up with the 1.6's fast panel without any problem. I only hear the sub bass separately if I put my ear to it! The addition of the sub certainly made the 1.6's more dynamic. The Maggies are placed in the open (away from the back wall) for critical listening. I love their open, airy, live music sound & the way they energize the room. You cannot tell the sound is coming from the panel even though the panel is staring down at you. The soundstage is huge & imaging is good - perhaps not quite pin point imaging as a dynamic speaker but then you don't get the big sound effect of the panels either. I prefer the sound not be directed at me the way box speakers do. They play plenty loud - the volume never exceeding 1/4 of the way. Even box speakers have their limits as to how loud they play without compressing the sound. Of course ultra expensive speakers such as Wilson's take this to a whole other level.
As far as value for money, we have to give Magnepan credit for keeping these speakers affordable. Dollar for dollar the 1.7's cost today is almost the same what I paid for the1.6's almost 20 years ago. Over the years I have tried box speakers in my system to see if I was missing anything but I always go back to the Magnepan panels.
Hi David! Glad you are enjoying your system!
Me too, I recently got back to my MG 1.4s. I do have an analogue system with tube preamplification and a Stellar S300 power amp. The Maggies are amazing for my taste. Apart from imaging not pin point they blow away any box speaker I have heard, regardless of price. I sewed new socks for them in french royal blue. They look beautiful and the WAF is quite high. From a certain distance off the back wall they really come to life. Love them. Btw. great discussion.
Being a Maggie fan for over 20 years (LRS,1.6, 1.7, 1.7i), this is the most comprehensive discussion I've ever heard about Maggies. Very honest guys but with big intellect. Listen up, future Maggie owners!
The most realistic sound I ever personally produced was using Cornwall IV's playing Eric Clapton unplugged. That literally sounded like they performance was in my living room. The scale, dynamics, vocals couldn't have gotten better to my ear. As great as those speakers are, they also have significant flaws. The horn did make itself known at times with certain tracks in the mid. Also, the finish was absolutely horrible for speakers at this price range. They didn't sound stage as good as typical speaker either but what they did well, they did exceptionally well.
I'm using magnapan MGllas snd I couldn't be happier with a speaker that's 40 years old!
When the 1.5R came out (yes, it had the true ribbon tweeter, not the "quasi-ribbon" tweeter currently used in the less expensive models) I bought a pair. Loved many things about the sound but finally had to admit to myself that my listening room was too small for them. These large panels have many strengths, but they have demands too.
I have a pair of Martin Logan ESL X. Can you tell me more about the limitation that you’ve mentioned in the video?
I'm a crazy gear head. I bought the LRS 2 years ago. I just now hooked them up. Got to be the best value in audio.
I was one of the lucky ones that got LRS's from you (black/cherry). I'm enjoying them, although there is a long break in period. Not only for your speaker, but for you as well. The way these produce sound, especially bass is totally different than any cone speaker I've had and that does take a while to get used to. I have mine matched with a REL T5i sub and it's almost fast enough to keep up. Most times it will blend well but certain tracks will show the weakness . I'm curious to try a second or a new T5X ? Anyone tried one with the LRS ? Great video guys. Thanks. I enjoyed it.
I have had Magnapans for over 40 years, they sound better today then they did new. Powered by vintage McIntosh , it is perfect for my ears.
Did you have to rebuild them at any point?
With subwoofers?
Is it best to mount acoustical treatment panels on the walls behind these speakers?
If so, what type of treatments would be a good starting point to help the speakers sound their best?
Thanks
Have owned both 2.6R and 3.6R Magnepans and had a great experience with both. Totally agree with Vilip regarding amplification. I originally powered them using Sonic Frontiers Power 3 SE monos but switched to Pass Labs X600.5 monos and there was a big leap forward in performance. The Magnepans love current....lots of it. 😎
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt I used to think that also. But what you have to realize is that most other speakers, because they are not as close to flat resistance across the spectrum, have impedance swings all over the place. The Maggie would sit at 4 ohms like a dummy load demanding current across the spectrum. While convention speakers might have some low spot, rated load impedance, the impedance is often as high as 30ohms at some frequencies! And because of "True Power", reduced actual power consumption due to phase shifts between E and I which Maggies don't have as much of, ... So the amp is not forced to drive a 4 ohm load across the spectrum. Just at a few short spots across the band.
I have the LRS wired to a NAIM XS3, Tellurium Black II on MagnaRiser stands, standing on Isoacoustics mini-pucks. I’m using a single REL T/5i out of the dedicated sub RCA, positioned just off centre between the LRS. Replaced the stock fuses with Synergistic Research ORANGE fuses(!)… Agree that it’s hard to integrate the sub, but this set up works great. My room is 15’ x 12’ x 7’(h), and the LRS are about half way out into the room (I sit on one of the end walls, the LRS are at the end of and either side of my double bed…)
Agree they don’t do everything well, but I can listen to this for 8-9hrs a time easily.
Love your channel 👍
PS… also agree there is a sweet spot, around 10 /11 o’clock on the NAIM volume, beyond that the dynamics go.
Also hate the binding posts, but not the end of the world. I had some Avalon Arcus once. They were a pain.
Love the way they look also (I have light grey with oak trim)
Hey guys thanks for reviewing
Magnepans. I am running an
Audiolab 6000a with a Node 2I
with the Magnepan SMG a.
I have plenty of base I stopped using my Sub. So you do not
need alot of power just the right
combination / synergy and
placement . I have mine 4 ft from wall 6 feet apart and sit
6 feet away.
How do you measure the distance between them?
Tympani T1-Ds are the only speakers i have ever owned that regularly induced goosebumps and brought tears to my eyes. I had the pair I three different homes. In two they were the best speakers I have ever had. In the third I could never get them to reproduce the same magic.....
I had them for 3 years ,I sold them because size was just to much for my new interior.
So now I have a lrs ...I have to say the lrs tweeters are a step up from the Tympani. The actual size of the soundfield.
Not much out there that matches a Tympani .
Great informative video. I paired my 1.7s with an affordable NAD 275BEE which has decent power and current. Any suggestions on amps that would be worth the cost now that I am thinking of replacing the NAD? I found the NAD to easily drive the Maggies to the volume levels I enjoy. I'm concerned that I might attempt to replace the NAD, spend a reasonable amount of money to do so, and not particularly improve the sound to any great extent if at all. Have thought about Naim, Parasound, but honestly love a tube sound and I'm thinking of the Doge pre-amp and Holo Sound Spring 3 DAC.
I have the 326BEE and I recently upgraded to crown xls 1502 (used from guitar center haha). I use the NAD as a preamp now and damn, let me tell you - the speed, resolution and dynamics completely opened up. I was underpowering my SMG-B's with the NAD alone. It was like night and day.
what you'll notice is this - you can get as loud as you like with the NAD, but without giving it the power it really needs, that sound will be flat and without dynamics. it takes doubling of power to add 3db and so youll need 8 and 16x the power to get those noticeable dynamics
Their smaller wall-mount models on stands for 2.1 are really terrific. They also don't require as much amplification (though still 4 ohm is best), yet yield the same Maggie experience. Good for smaller rooms, imo.
Just saw this. Enjoyed it enormously. How well do you think the LRS will match the Primaluna Evo 400 pre and Power? Or any other tube based amplifiers? Thanks.
It will they are very linear impedance wise, they are just low sensetivity.. which requires somewhat more power (clean power) as you up the volume knob more than you think.
Tubes I bet sound stellar
great video thx guys !! what amp /intergrated unit would u recommend for klipsch La Scalas ?
The highest quality low wattage tube amp you can afford.
Great review. I bought the 1.6’s in 2004 from AE and later the 1.7’s. I like them because they don’t sound like a speaker in a box which I also own. For my ears it’s night and day difference. Regarding the downside of Magnepans needing/liking high powered amps, the opposite is true. One can spend more money on the amplification and then save money buying the Maggies rather than box speakers to get great sound. A lot of the cost goes to designing & building the box that doesn’t resonate which is why Maggies are less expensive. The speakers in a box that I like are out of my snack bracket. I use 45 watt tube amplifier and they sound fine to me. Always wondered if I should try a hi power solid state amp fed by my tube preamp. I don’t miss a subwoofer but that’s just me. For me imaging is good, but then I don’t listen to much orchestral music. Layering has good depth front to back. Adrian is right, voices & instruments are high in the soundstage and behind the speakers. Not the greatest speaker for low level listening. They sound best, i.e. project well when played louder. Low on the WAF but if you buy off white they tend to blend in with the curtains. Worst downside is if you have cats they are giant scratching posts for them. I made guards to wrap around to protect them. Not the best choice if you have young children with messy fingers touching the grill cloth. Cat guards work there too.
Excellent feedback Bruce thanks!
I have 1.7s having owned others in the past. What power amplification have you had success with? Thx.
@@stephengordon1752 I’ve only ever used them with a Primaluna Prologue 5 with KT88’s, about 45 WPC. KT120’s sound a bit bolder, bigger but maybe not as sweet. Of course tube amp power numbers are not the same as SS. A lot of reviews recommend a high power SS amp and particularly fed from tube preamps. I prefer the sound of a tube amp. It’s personal choice and the type of music one listens to. I was curious whether my amp power was too low for these current hungry speakers. But when the sales rep played the Maggies the sound was stunningly more open, great on vocals compared to speakers in a box in this price range. You already familiar with their sound. Used Maggies are rarely for sale, often by owners who are upgrading, and they don’t stay on the market for long. What amp are you using?
@@TuffyAndBetty A NAD 275BEE was purchased at the same time as the Maggies to get me up and going. It is surprisingly good. I'm a bit stuck because I really can't be sure that an investment in a different (more expensive) amp is necessarily going to yield a noticeable difference. I listen at low'ish levels - and so a tube power amp may well be more practical in my case than for most. Thx for replying.
I have the 1.7s and for the longest time paired them with a Denon X series receiver and was happy to a point. Upgraded the 2 channel amp for the Maggie’s to a Moon 340i from Simaudio based on a recommendation from my dealer. Never thought an amp could have such a profound impact on the quality of audio but it’s like I purchased a brand new set of speakers and am hearing them for the first time. The Moon 340i is stunning with these speakers. FWIW I asked about, but didn’t listen to, pairing the Maggie’s with a Hegal 120 or 3x .. was told the Moon would pair better. I haven’t tried the Hegal to compare but the Moon certainly does wonders for them. Best of all, wife loves the Maggie’s too and everyone always comments about how cool and different they look.
You guys pretty much nailed it, thumbs up from me - line source presentation (Magnepan) vs a dynamic driver point source presentation - - they both can do certain things much better than the other - - ya want ya chest caved in with hyper imagining, impress ya buddies, better stay with dynamic driver point source, ya want boxless, transparent, coherent, awesome sound staging with real world height and more than adequate 3D imagining, better off with the maggies. The differences? Well, welcome to the real world of audiophile gear - - - btw, the big head thing that Vilip has complained about in earlier talks is something I've never noticed, that is, compared to the size of the other images within the sound stage, I've listened for that after Villip brought it up. Although I can't speak to the LRS's, the center image or head size of vocalists running 3.7i's of course varies, as one would expect, with the music source - not always, but generally scaled to the rest of the presentation - if you guys should decide to do more on Magnepans, would be cool to hear your takes on some of the higher end models too. Thanks!
The big head thing is especially noticeable with panels like Martin Logans.
@@vilipmak3973 Thanks Vilip, so cool that you took a moment to respond - - course this could easily turn into a "beating a dead horse thing" - - generally, I'm on point with you to put that on the table first - so, I don't doubt you're hearing what you describe - - I have a background in playing music, still have my union card and such, and having said that, quite a bit of recording experience, both armature and studio - we both know engineers will work on the spotlighted vocal - without going into details of what I mean, could that be what you're hearing? And yes, certainly part of this messing around does indeed make for a "larger" than life center image, singers want that - - so - - speaking about maggies in particular (I have no personal experience with the M.Logans) - - If I listen to an old early stereo recording, you know, recorded in two channels, but making the third or middle channel by combining the two outside channels, yes, that center image can come across as more pronounced - it's basically 2 channels combined - but, I can listen carefully to a ride cymbal coming from just one of those outer channels, and if one listens very closely to the actual image size of that cymbal, I find that cymbal size (I'm a drummer) isn't much different than the actual image size in the center although of course it's usually up in db level - - so I can't help but wonder if what you're talking about isn't, in reality, the speaker giving you what's actually there - - anyway, don't get me wrong - I never intended or care about going off the deep end about this issue, except that it made enough of an impression on me that, as you can tell, I explored it further - my system is reference in the sense of the gear itself, who the hell knows what reference really is - I'd hate to see a real world frequency graph of my room, so ya get me, I'm into music first, but I'm well over the 100k mark mostly because I'm into vinyl - so, having mentioned that - decades with the MGIIIa's (crazy modified by the end) and now probably heading into 4 years or so with the 3.7i's which yeah, I've begun messing with them too. And yes, along the way I've had considerable experience with dynamic coned point source too, I doubt in my lifetime we'll get to where one can have the outstanding features of both (maybe the maggie condos?) - but I just can't get by the box thing - over long periods, I've got to have panels and so I'll give up that wonderful visceral thing that a nice set of Focals or Wilsons will give ya. Thanks man, love what you guys do on your channel - Later, Skip
Nice to see a discussion about Magnepans. I have a pair of 1.7 Maggies that I got in near new condition for nearly half price from the Australian supplier. The sales pitch was that the previous owner loved them so much, he brought them back so he can upgrade to the 3.7s. We all heard that one before. The problem is, I love them so much that I want to send them back and upgrade to the 3.7 Magnepans. There's nothing wrong with them except they're addictive and now I want more. When you talk about the need for good gear to get the best from them, I find it dark humour that I have a A$40,000 system running a pair of speakers that cost me A$2,000. So far I have found no comparison tests between the 1.7 and the 3.7 and you seem to have experience with both. Any thoughts you have on these speakers as comparison would be appreciated as I cannot audition the 3.7s. Do the 3.7s need more beef from an amp than the 1.7s? I'm driving the 1.7s with a Luxman m700u. This would be a great comparison to do as it matches up the dearest of the low end Maggies to the cheapest of the high end. It would be interesting to see what we get beyond that price jump.
How does the LRS compare to Martin Logan ESL? Do you carry the ESL in your store?
Anyone have thoughts on the triangle speakers, the cello etc? I head their bookshelf model and I was intrigued.
Would you say, if a standard sub is difficult to integrate with the LRS, what about a Open Baffle servo sub would they fair better ? ( like the ones from GR Research )
I have a pair of .7 (black with cherry, as mentioned in the video) driven by a First Watt SIT-3. When I auditioned them, the dealer would not let me try them with my amp. Instead, they had some class D amp hooked up. Can't remember the power rating, but had to be a couple hundred watts a side. It struggled, particularly in the low end. David Crosby's 'If Only I Could Remember My Name' sounded anemic and distorted.
I still purchased them. Good news is that the First Watt's current capability drives them perfectly. The old adage about finding an amp that doubles wattage between the 8 and 4 ohm rating is probably sound (no pun intended), but Nelson's amp does very well. The presentation is uber-holographic.
So, finding the appropriate amplifier is definitely a must. You are limited in options. I would love to find tube amp that works as well as the Pass. I'm using an Audible Illusions 3B preamp which does add a lot of tube color and goodness.
I should comment on the low end: I'm a professional bassist (electric and upright). I've never heard a speaker more truthfully reproduce those instruments. I listen to a lot of acoustic music and can't conceive ever buying a box speaker again. No, they don't reach the low octave, but I'm really not missing it! Snare drum SOUNDS like a snare drum.
Will I upgrade speakers? Only when I find a larger listening room. The upgrade will most likely be another panel (Eminent or Analysis), or Quad 57s. 3.7 or higher will always be on my wish list.
i upgraded from some 30+ year old B&W matrix 3s to the LRS. i did not like what i was hearing at first, but i have warmed up to them and/or they have "broken in." on certain material the highest frequencies seem somewhat recessed, and they lack the sparkle of a true ribbon, but they are not as dull as they sounded to me when i first got them. they have an uncanny ability to uncover details i've never noticed before in a lot of tracks - sounds or elements that are quieter than the lead/bass/drums. also, they really bring to light the interactions/harmonics in complex chords - diminished 7th, 9th/13th etc. no speaker is perfect but they do a lot of things so well, i'm staying put for the foreseeable future.
I totally agree with Adrian when he says he dislikes the lack of soundstage height on a lot of point-source speakers. When many years ago I listened to the vaunted Vandersteen 5, with its soundstage barely taller than the speaker itself, I was very disappointed and could never forget it. I remember loving the original Eggleston Andra, a relatively short and home-friendly speaker, because it could throw a soundstage as high as the ceiling if the recording allowed it. This is also the case of the DeVore Orangutan O/96, a speaker that is less than a meter tall but whose soundstage has good height. The smaller Wilsons do that too, also the small Neat speakers (Iota, Xplorer), and most recently the FinkTeam KIM. I'm sure there are others.
What about the fuse of the Magnepan. Is there an audible upgrade by changing them?
The way I have my 1.7i maggies setup, driven by a mytek brooklyn bridge and parasound jc 5, they have very good layering and separation, if not pin point imaging. I setup using the sumiko method modified by Ron Burrell’s LOTS method. Once I get that close I use the wilson audio concept of voweling to do final placement. Maggies rock, especially if you gain stage according to Benchmark audio published methodology.
I have the 1.7i's and they're driving me crazy, terribly muffled in the upper mid bass region for some reason. I keep trying and failing to make them sound good and I'm not sure where I'm going wrong. I have decided it must be my room, but I've not heard of that placement method so I'll give that a go. Thanks.
Totally agree with the guy that explains the imaging with height and space instead of pin point. I think I prefer that as well. Maggies are starting to win for me.
Is an Adcom GFA 555 mark one good enough for them?
This is why PHAZON .. getting the (phase dead on) was key to having those systems work well. Having it all in phase is what makes the difference
Would a Rogue Audio Sphinx v3 be enough power for the LRS's?
Philip made a lot of good points about the nature of panels. It's not something I've heard others speak about.
On the topic of pairing subwoofers with Magnaplaners, after 20 years with my 2.5's I decided to try a REL sub as an experiment. Adding a T9i took some time to integrate with my speakers but with substantial tweeking I was able to get the sub to match up beautifully with the panels. The speed of the REL pairs nicely with the 2.5's and adds more dimension and space to the system especially in the mid-bass and of course much more in the lower registers. With this setup I cannot tell there is a sub in the system.
Over the years, I have heard that rel subs are one of the few and best at pairing with Maggie's. I'm assuming your using the high pass to match the amps bass with the subs bass?
@@brandonburr4900 Yes, I am using the high level input as recommended by REL and the deal where I purchased the speakers and subwoofer.
I have set up my ,7’s and got the soundstage without the imaging just like what Vilip said. I have Tektons, horn loaded JBl”s. And a pair of Yamaha NS500m studio monitors. All these image very very well with the Yamaha ns 500m the best of all. So I’m very well accustomed to great imaging in all directions but I have to disagree with Vilip because I have also set up the Magnapan’s in situations and have gotten really really good imaging .
Hello, I know this is an older review but I just went through auditioning LRS+'s and couldn't get them to sound right to save my life. I was using an older, Emotiva A/B 200wpc and a newer Nilai Hypex. They sounded smooth but were missing micro details (triangles, bells) that I know are in my reference tracks that are clearly audible on apogee ribbons (which I unfortunately sold several years ago) and my Custom Salk /ESS speaker (full size 12lb. Heils). Even putting my ear up to the panel I still could hear the mssing details. When I ran a Dirac there wasn't any thing obvious other than the top roll off. At any rate any recommendations for Speakers under 6K that have the resolution of the Apgee's? Am I missing something? Thanks!
I've owned several speakers in my audio life. The one that I miss the most is the Acoustat 1+1 Medallion mod. It did have it's limitations, the reason for me selling them many years ago to get Von Schweikert VR4's, but I do miss their "presentation" of sound.
A friend had at the time Maggie MG2B's. They were nice, but not Acoustats. Sad that the company no longer exists.
I went and heard the large Acoustats once. They were truly amazing. I don't think speakers that utilize a woofer for the low end, like the Martin Logans can come close to matching them. But you need a VERY large panel to any any bass out of them at all. I expect doubling them up, side by side, killing the highs in one pair, would have made them.
And nothing is an electrostatic speaker except an eletrostatic speaker. The best sound I've ever heard was my Signet TK33 headphones, which were electrets (same thing but the stators are not externally powered). They sounded basically like you 'were there', and you could listen to them basically all day long, even at high levels, and still they were totally non fatiguing.
The 2Bs are a LONG way from the Maggies of today. Now they have ribbon conductors, rather than wires, and a true ribbon line source for the tweeter. The panels are also larger, what was the tweeter before and plays midrange now is about twice the area. The tweeters were really puny in the high end before, not so these, still pretty much full up at 40 khz, which doesn't matter so much, but the older tweeters were basically gone at 14 khz, which very much does. If you haven't heard any of the modern mid to high end Maggies, go take a listen. They are light years beyond the 2Bs, which I've also owned, and the SMGs, and originally, an MG1 system. I don't mean a little difference in sound, but a MAJOR difference in sound. It is not something you have to have any kind of 'golden ears' to hear the difference.
@@MrJdsenior I certainly would hope that the improvement in sound over the MG 2B's would be major. I was comparing from that era and comparing it to what I considered the speaker system that I missed the most. The 2B's at the time were driven by all Bryston system. It was replaced by the Acoustat's, which he later went with the Martin Logan CLS of that day and Audio Research gear.
I stayed with the Acoustat's and all Counterpoint gear. I liked the sound with the VPI HW19, Koestsu Black Goldline cart.
I am retired now, moved from NYC to Poland, and had to downsize. So while I know there is better gear than I have now, I am content with the sound and enjoy what I am listening to. But still miss the Acoustat's.
What is your experience of soundstage and image of Focal Kanta with beryllium tweeters. Can you hear violin from one sideand horns from the other side?
The Kanta is a fine speaker. Soundstages well and has enough forward edge detail to sometimes become etchy and sharp despite somewhat exquisite pinpoint imaging. That said, the Kanta has always surprised me as I have always expected undue brightness but I have heard it with Naim amplification and it was very smooth
MAGNEPAN is the top selling hifi speaker brand of all time. I have the .7s with dual SVS SB-16 Ultra subwoofers.
i am waiting for my open baffle subwoofer from rythmik tp match my LRSés with replaced crossovers from GR research. a major upgrade for the lrs.
As a former owner of a pair of Maggie 1.7i, I agree with all that was discussed except for one thing: subwoofers. A lot of Maggie owners are in denial about or just don’t know what they are missing when it comes to bass. Magnepans do not provide adequate sub bass. They do not have any percussion to their bass and no bass slam. I added a pair of REL T/9i subs to my pair of 1.7i. It wasn’t hard to integrate them contrary to what Vilip said, and they made a HUGE positive difference in my system. It was massive. IMO Maggies should *always* be paired with subs. The other thing is that Maggies should be considered a foundation upon which to make substantial improvements. The subs are one essential improvement. The other is replacing the jumper and fuse with for instance the Mike Powell silver upgrade which replaces the stock lousy fuse and the stock steel plate jumper with a silver tube (not fuse) and silver jumper. In my system this upgrade increased definition and the highs. Having good aftermarket bases also helps. It’s a platform for improvements and tweaks.
REL and Sonus faber subs which are connected to the amplifier output are two of the few subs that can integrate ok with Maggies. IMHO, subs are optional. And tight seamless integration will always be a challenge. With Maggies, I always hear the crossover to the sub.
Wow guys this discussion could not come at a better time for me, I've been wanting to get into panel speakers for while and Maggies have been one of the options, although they don't seem to be quite so prevalent here in Australia. Any thoughts on which model would be a good match with an Audio Research D115 or VT100 amplifiers? Thanks
Start at least with 1.7i. 3.7i if you can swing it. The entire sitting/ standing/ tilt angle goes away. The 3.7i moves to a true rather than "quasi" ribbon tweeter.
@@glenncurry3041 thanks for the tip, I've had other people also recommending 1.7 as a good starting point. I'll keep an eye on what becomes available here in Australia. Cheers
@@glenncurry3041 Do you think my space (26 x 22 x 15 ft high) is too big for the 1.7i? I don't care about (or even like) thumping bass, but I do love soundstage height. I want an immersive experience with classical orchestral music. I'm hoping the 1.7i will work, as 3.7i are a huge $$ jump, but . . .
@@issadad The 1.7i should work great in that space as long as you have good amps. My space is 34'x'40'17' with a 8' wall breaking it into to 20'x34' spaces (Kit/Din ... living room) So mine is similar in some aspects for the actually listening room. Positioning is critical. A couple inches this way, that... a few degrees of rotations,... But once locked in, the sound stage height/ depth/ performers locations/ ... should blow you away!
@@glenncurry3041 Can't begin to tell you how grateful I am for this reply, especially since there's nobody in Maine. So 1st: in my chair with head tilted back, my eyes (even closed) look up at abt 30˚ angle, as if looking up toward a stage, and that's where I expect to see/hear the music, in my "line of sight" -- not 3 ft off the floor, where the singer is standing in an orchestra pit. 2nd: I don't seem to care about or even like chest-thumping low bass slam, which typically sounds like an artificial machine effect as opposed to a real musical instrument, say kettle drums at a symphony concert. So the whole sub-woofer conversation is one I'd prefer to avoid. And so: if big band Beethoven and small combo Diana Krall, both played pretty loud, can sound goosebump immersive and detailed, that's all I ask. Now you know me, nice to meet you.
I'm trying to decide btwn: 1) 1.7i (perfect size + price), 2) 3.7i (big $ jump but better ribbon tweeter and maybe better for my space?) and 3) one of the open baffle jobs from Spatial Audio Labs (M3 Sapphire or X series, great open sound and more dynamic than Maggies but only 45" tall). Klipsch Cornwall IVs were also on the short list briefly, and I definitely love the GR Research DIY NX-tremes (NX-Oticas too) but I can't even build an IKEA spice rack. That said, I'd be inclined with either Maggie model to pick up the GR Research upgrade kit and find somebody to install it.
So one cocksure expert warned that Maggies wd sound like transistor radios in my 10,000 cu ft room, but another expert (in this thread) says that the 3.7i eliminates all the beaminess & downside issues of the 1.7i. Then you replied, more encouraging.
Re: amplification, my short list for now includes: Hegel H190, McIntosh 2300, Parasound A21+ w somebody's tube preamp, Line Magnetic LM-508 IA, used Audio Research DSi200, McIntosh MAC 6700 Receiver, Vincent Audio SV-237 Mk II. Or...? Thomas Tan (Thomas & Stereo channel) says Maggies do fine w solid state bcse they're already airy enough w/out tubes. My space is not overly live, I have a big shag rug for the rig, but I'm not wild abt sound treatments unless absolutely essential. Any thoughts? Am in Portland, ME. And thanks!
just to note here: i am always there until the end. nice would be a shorter intro and the gained time as content, because i enjoy every second, thanks
Thanks Sammy!
Good review, very informative. In the ugly comments section, however, maybe 30 years is the life of the Magnepan flat panels but my CC3 center channel delaminated in 10 years and all I got from Magnepan was a "what's your problem, they lasted 10 years, what you want?"
i own the plus and use an svs sub. no complaints. also i found an older rotel amp and its pretty darn good for $250! used gear can get you a long way
I have a small room (10'x12') and wonder if the LRS+ are a good choice for that room. I have always been a big box/tower type in much larger rooms and in the past haven't had the money to get too adventurous in my purchases, I like to stick to proven things I am familiar with. Now money isn't really the issue, but I do have a budget and don't want to waste it. I have Elac Debut reference DBR62, which are really nice and definitely would do the job. Actually, I have several speakers and like to swap them out for a change of pace. Are they worth it or should I look at something higher end in a conventional speaker? I am working my way to high end but am moving one level at a time. For this room I plan on an RME ADI 2 DAC fs, a Schiit Freya +N preamp and a set of Schiit Tyr amps. I haven't bought the new amps yet, I am also considering a pair Schiit Vidar 2, I haven't decided yet. I really like the Schiit preamp so I figure it will match best with the Schiit amps. Anyway, any thoughts on best speakers for small rooms with this setup.
Unless you like to listen to music at a high volume, I think you will be fine. I have LRS+ in a 16'x 22' room and am more than happy; just make sure you give them space from the front wall.
I have the Freya+ and run 2 Vidar2.s as monoblocks (Schiit only publishes 8 ohm spec.s on their website when used as monoblocks. I went to visit them at the Schiitr and they said it will be OK as they used this setup with their 1.7i.s; you can confirm this with a phone call to them), and i have 2 sub.s.
My recommendation to you would be to get two Vidar2.s (vs the Tyrs) and use the extra money to get 2 "fast" subs; Magnepan recommends REL T5/X. If I had the budget, I would get the Tyrs. Best of fun on your journey!
@@pfunk34 right on, I own a couple subs but I doubt they will be up to the task. Rels are sweet, I was already considering them. Subs are definitely in the budget but, may be down the road a couple months. I can only spend so much at a time, I got a wife, lol. Thanks for the feedback.
Wonderful discussion but I certainly achieved a great match with my JL Audio Fathom 112v2 subwoofer. Seamless sound. The sub adds just that extra bit of punch and depth when called upon but you can’t even tell it’s there.
The JL can do it. That's for sure.
A line source tweeter can deliver superb pinpoint imaging. Haven't you guys ever heard a well set up pair of Quad ESL 57s?
That's not a line source tweeter. It has a large central tweeter panel that occupies the entire middle of the speaker. The 63 in fact introduces a delay circuit spiraling into the center of the speaker to mimic a point source. The Quad 63 as a result images.
@@vilipmak3973 Agreed, I've used them for over 30 years. What I'm saying is that it's not even remotely close to a point source. yet it still provides state of the art imaging. A true line source like a Magneplanar's long ribbon can also deliver excellent imaging. Imaging is determined primarily by the amplitude and phase relationship between the left and right speakers. Comb filtering caused the difference in arrival time between the center of the ribbon, and the extreme top and bottom of the driver, causes a long line source to behave increasingly like a point source at higher frequencies.
As a former owner, one of the (3.7’s) issues for me was fussy positioning. I also found them lacking in dynamics for home theater applications (but part of that could have been due to an underpowered amp). They were excellent for pop music however.
I've had many maggies mgI, mgII, mgIIIa, mmg, Tympani I and today the lrs.
The reason why I went smaller, I wanted a full quasi ribbon planar, smaller and something new. I grown tired of fixing my older models...
My biggest gripe with maggies is the lack of dynamics (especially on the low end) . However i do feel today, subwoofers have caught up. Even in the lower budget you can find subs that will do well with them.
I digress, the lrs really pleasant and a big change from what I am used to hearing. From my other traditional planar drivers. Especially the tweeter sections are lot better on the lrs.
It doesn't posses the forwardness I dislike of the mgIIIa true ribbons. I could not get used to, that over the top articulated sound of them. But I also,doesn't posses the to tame rolled off upper end of my older maggies.
It's actually what i always missed with my older ones. Super musical with zero fatique. But at cost of upper end detail.
The lrs covers it! I really love them so far
Depends on the shape of the horn!
Will Maggie 1.7i's sound good in a very large room: 26 x 22 x 15ft high? I can place them on the long wall, about 3-4 ft into the room, 8-10 ft apart. Nice 9-10 ft equilateral triangle on a rug surrounded by air on both sides and above. Can anybody answer this question? (Like Adrian, I want floor to ceiling soundstage height.) Thanks.
Yes… that height comment with the Yoda reference! That is why I love my Maggies. And the speed, the non-fatigue….
And yes on the comment on live situations….
I owned them for a few months. They were amazing for some things and the imaging is no joke. Ultimately I sold them because they had terrible dynamics and the sound would change so much with even the slightest turn of the head. I was listening more to the speaker than the music. Listening to my favorite tracks they just sucked all the joy out of them.
In my experience with Magnapan speakers in multiple rooms and setups, good imaging is accomplished by setup (placement) that exploits the acoustic synergy between speaker and room.
And again as we explained - not really imaging although of sorts, kinda - but generally there can be a deep and layered soundstage. Soundstage is not imaging. Imaging exists within a soundstage.
@@vilipmak3973 lol trying so hard to be a expert , audio engineers call it sound field and ends there.
stop attacking the dude on semantics dude
@@MichelLinschoten Its not semantics. There is a difference between what is soundstaging and what is imaging. And it is easily discerned in a system that truly does both - and this is just what audiophiles desire. Audio Engineers are fine and they have their own criteria, just not the criteria of an Audiophile.
Can a .7 magnapan pressurise a room?
Would they work well with the British NVA mono blocks or Hegel 590 Integrated amplifier. I have the 1.7I model.
I use a Hegel H190 with my 1.7i. The H590 would be spectacular with those speakers.
I use the Hegel 390 with the 1.7i's and its amazing . The difference from the 390 with 590 you can check on this channel also , they made a video about it.
@@DamonRellik The H590 would be more exquisite and the H390 a bit warmer.
@@vilipmak3973 i forgot , accoring to hegel the 390 has better digital inputs and as for the magnepans; the stock fuses are also a "bad" imo. If you upgrade to silver fuses is like lifting a haze from the sound or unplugging your ears.
I keep hearing that the LRS (and Magnepans in general) are difficult to pair with a sub. I had some Tympani 1Ds back in the 90s so I'm pretty familiar with the Magnepan sound. After being without them for about 25 years, I recently bought a pair of LRS and they pair fantastically with the 2X8" Emotiva SE8 subs I already had. The way I have them set up, they add just a touch of low end, sort of a scaffolding for what's coming from the mains, but I don't perceive the presence of the subs... I obviously know they are there but I don't "notice" them, in other words, they pair just fine in my room and to my ear. Guys, thanks for this review! I love how you articulate the differences between sound stage and imaging and I completely agree with it in terms of what I hear coming from mine. In fact, I watch so many reviews of current box speakers and what they do, I recently hooked up my Rega ELAs and have been listening to them to sort of compare box vs. panel. Next, I'm going to hook up the DCM QEDs I was listening to right before I got the LRS and I'm again looking forward to comparing and contrasting panel > box. And, I'm even thinking of getting something newer, maybe LS50 or Elac or ?? for further comparison. Thanks again for all your reviews!
Thanks Dan
Which integrated amp under 6000 dollars would you recommend for magnepan 1.7 i
The Hegel H190 would be a great option!
Great discussion. I’ve had my .7i for about a year. They are deceptively loud, IMO, but they lack a visceral impact like a box speaker. I miss that sometimes. I also agree the binding posts (and cross-overs!) and the stands are bad. I know their philosophy is thatimproved stands and posts don’t have sonic value. Big missed opportunity for them I think.
they put the money where it matters most, in the speaker. from there you can do any upgrades you want, as you see fit. it's crazy that they are losing money on the LRS; it has exceeded my expectations after an uncertain break in period. when i have the space i will definitely upgrade to the 1.7 or better
@@cabasse_music right. But you can’t get factory upgrades. Missed opportunity for them I think. And they lose money on LRS not because people aren’t buying them - they cost too much to make! I think they really underestimated how popular they would be.
The point Adrian makes is absolutely correct.
My cone speakers at times has the performer 3 feet off the ground. It’s more like you’re in nose bleed section way up.
When I heard some Apogees. Wow. They were of course tall so the sound stage is high and above you. It just has more full horizontally also.
Of course planar ribbon type lack bass and wear and degrade over time.
Definitely moving speakers away from the wall creates nice sound stage.
I’m not a fan of horn speakers myself.
Most practical are cone with rubber surrounds. My Paradigm Studio 60’s are nearly 25 years old. Good as new.
Would just like to raise the sound stage.
Try placing your speakers to the height you desire for the sound stage.
@@rb032682 thanks for the suggestion but currently the tweeter position is at ear level when sitting on the sofa.
Do you recommend raising above ear level?
I have a center channel speaker not in use. I have though of pointing upward behind flat screen TV to perhaps give a more higher sound stage.
Any reasons not to do this?
@@f430ferrari5 - I would say "try it". Unless it is too difficult to place the center speaker behind the screen, it's worth a try.
Experiment as desired. The worst that can happen is the accumulation of knowledge and experience.
If you can raise your speakers above ear level without causing any risk to you or the speakers, try it. I have a pair of my speakers about 12 inches above ear level with the speakers tilted enough to align the tweeters with my ears. I don't think much about the height of the soundstage.
Do you have any acoustical treatment? I have treatment of various types on all 6 room surfaces. Mostly absorption with a variety of diffusion devices.
I have some 28 year old Paradigm Titans. Best value speaker I have ever come across.
@@rb032682 thanks for the advice. I decided to put the center channel behind the flat screen and point upward. This raised the sound stage 👍
When you say that these are not fast enough, to have subwoofers to accompany them, do you mean that at the bare minimum you would always need to get Rel subs with high level connection?
Yes - Sort of… Mostly.
I have 0.7 in bedroom, using them like they are sound bar for TV sound only, I listen to your channel via these 0.7 driven by NAD C338. It is Ok for this duty. For music I have 1.7i driven by Krell New K300i which
Amazing sound while They caused the Krell to be overheat at loud level. I also have 3.7i driven by huge Moon monoblock and they can go really loud on orchestral, sold the 3.7i later. Hate the cheapish speaker terminals, I replaced them on 1.7i with Cardas binding posts and bypassing both fuses and resister terminals too.
i listening music so loud ,i blow few pairs of fuse at the first days until i replace the fuse by a metal stick ,finally it can play so loud this may crazy but it work ,maggie vocal sound are perfect
Great discussion. But I don't agree that magnepans are hard to pair with a sub, as some other people have noted as well. I have a pair of LRS paired with a REL, and at least for me the integration is seamless, and it was easy. I'm also using a ceramic fuse, and stands and crossovers from Magnariser, and the overall effect is genuinely spellbinding. Comparing this setup to a pair of KEF LS50s, I don't feel the LRS (plus add-ons) lack dynamism. And the LRS better the LS50s on every other measure. Transparency, imaging, soundstage height and depth, etc. This is not a night and day situation. But I find noticeable improvements across the board. And that's not a small statement. Properly set up the LS50s are phenomenal speakers, and it took me a long time to find something under 5x the cost of the LS50s that I thought I wanted to own. I used both sets of speakers with a Rogue Audio Sphinx at first and more recently with a Topping Pre 90 and a 450w March Audio class D power amp. I mainly listen to vinyl using a Hana ML cartridge, an EAT B Sharp table, a vintage Entre SUT and a tweaked Icon Audio PS1. In my small listening room, the LRS sound best almost pointing directly at each other, with the REL T7i between them. The tweeters are 120cm from the front wall, 190cm apart and 160cm from the listening position. For everybody's reference. This system gives me huge joy and easy to see me resisting the temptation to tweak much /anything for at least a couple of years. Although some open baffle speakers... 🙄
Vilip is correct about the LRS. My LRS have a great sound stage but poor imaging. My LS50’s on the other hand have great imaging but a so-so sound stage. My JBLs are somewhere in between.
I agree. I Love my LS-50s for what they do, but the lack of a reasonably sized soundstage seems to rob music of much of its context. So then I hook up my MMGs with raised & properly angled stands. Ultimately I think I favor staging over image specificity, or rather I miss staging more than I miss pinpont imaging. But I'm keeping both.
Vilip needs to try vinyl so detail actually exists! When I demo my 1.7i to people, I promise them to have the artist standing in front of them! Exactly like Adrian says, performers are in a SPACE, not a point/ line 3ft off the ground. You can see the entire face. A piano spreads across the sound field as an object. Not a thin line. Objects exist in a 3d space. Not a 2d line.
But they take extreme placement adjustments. I find a twist of just a couple degrees can move the sound field up and down. Distance between them develops the over all system frequency response. At times I even find nulls that destroy the response curve. You have to think of them as drivers and the room is the cabinet.
After not having Maggies for decades when I first got my 1.7i my oldest son, also an audiophile, after 10 seconds of listening he said he now knows what is wrong with every other (cone) speaker he has ever heard.
Same with owning electrostatics. Every cone speaker sounds distorted by comparison.
Someone here in the comments mentioned a tool 🔧to tighten & loosen the speaker cable binding post that works better than the cheap/flimsy tool that the manufacturer provides ( a ball something or other)
Does anyone know what it's called?
I imagine any hardware store will have them.
Thanks
Ball head Allen key. SAE spec (inch)
My comment on this review is that it is almost entirely a review on Magnepan LRS or .7s. I have to point out that you are not discussing the best of the Magnepan models. Also the larger Magnepans have good base. My 20.1s are rated down to 25 Hz. I do have two McIntosh MC402s in mono mode driving them, but they have plenty of bass down to pretty low frequencies. I would also say the larger maggies may have better imaging with the true ribbon tweeters. So I would like to hear this review re-done but based on the 3.7i and the 20.7. Even the 30.7s. You are selling electronics that are plenty expensive and you should be willing to have the big maggies reviewed with those electronics. By the way with the maggies binding posts if you use a ball driver they are easy to loosen and tighten.
With Maggies, the specification does not tell the entire story. Your 20.1 may be rated to 25 Hz and yet the panel will still only move so much and are still SPL limited. For real bass, the visceral and slam cannot be missing.
@@vilipmak3973 I don't know what the SPL limit is because I have never found it, and played louder than I am comfortable with. As for bass slam, what you said is true, but the bass extension is there, and the bass is good.
One important aspect that was not brought up (no pun intended) is the need to get rid of the factory "feet" and get the Maggies off the floor with aftermarket stands. As an example, at 18:42 you can see an example of 'Magna Risers' fitted. There are others out there and I do not know which brand Adrian recommends. Adrian??
I've only had experience with Mye, and clients like them
I also like horns but not all, have you tried Avantgard? You will start loving horns if you do ;)
I enjoy my .7s with a Rogue Sphinx, but agree they only go so loud. Then I slapped a decibel meter on them in my listening room and realized I thought 85 dB is LOUD. That’s just what I hear. And probably why I take ear plugs to movies. It’s all so personal. So one person’s “must-have” is the next person’s “so what.” Since acquiring these speakers and amp, I’ve upgraded my sources and feel I hear every improvement these better sources offer. That’s a real testament to their quality, and that’s what I think audiophile means. They ARE audiophile grade.
This is a good discussion on Magnepans but it seems so weird to have a dealer seeming dumping on them? I tried the LRS many years ago but didn't wasn't impressed as it sound thin and bright. Probably didn't have a good amp and needed more burn-in.
I love that they sell the product but still provide their honest perspectives on the downsides.
I am a proud owner of a magnepan since 1989.. I own SMG A, MMG, MMGC, MG 1.5QR and no box will ever enter my house again.
I paired my 1.6 magnapans with my Macintosh C 2300. It would play so loud it would make my ears bleed. There is something about that particular amplifier that will excite the magies to very high levels of volume. And a regular 150 W per channel amplifier will not do the same thing.
Why don't you guys design the perfect speaker and let us hear it? Can't wait!
Regarding the horrord binding posts, you can upgrade the crossover with GR Research which incorporates their tube connectors, so does away with the originals.
Excellent conversation. I had a pair of LRS paired with a Vincent SP-331 and it was a nice combo. I think I would have kept them really long term but someone offered me more than list for them due to the wait time....So, off they went.