DCA vs Subgroups - On The Behringer XR18 - X Air - Tutorial
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- čas přidán 16. 07. 2024
- Setup, demonstration, and explanation of subgroups vs DCA's as shown on a Behringer XR18 / Midas MR18. Useful for mixing bands and other live sound reinforcement situations. X-Air Live Sound Tutorial.
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I've broken this down into overall chapters, although there is some crossover in the information between chapters.
The DCA and Subgroup background information is cross-platform type audio mixing information. Even though they are being demonstrated on an X-Air (Behringer XR18), the concepts of DCA's and Subgroups remain the same no matter the console. The setup examples, on the other hand, are Behringer / Midas specific and shown on X-Air PC Edit software (though Mac, Android (Mix Station), and iPad work as well).
Setup is identical between the XR/MR digital consoles, and their big brother- the Behringer X32 and Midas M32. Especially when using the X-Air Edit software and the X32's X-Edit software (M-Edit and M-Air-Edit for Midas), although V4 firmware has also made the console GUI very similar to the software GUI as well.
The X/M digital consoles do have more busses and DCA's, which is one of the limitations, and differences, between them and the X-Air mixers, but overall concepts for audio uses remain the same.
Patreon Page:
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0:00 Intro
0:16 Subgroup Introduction
0:50 Subgroups Explained
1:40 Subgroup Setup
6:29 DCA's Explained
6:45 DCA Setup
7:12 Differences Between DCA's and Subgroups
9:14 Bonus Tip: Naming Busses/Subgroups
Suggested related video:
5 Typical Mistakes Behringer XR18 and Midas MR18 Users Make:
• Five Typical Mistakes ...
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#XR18
DCA Versus Subgroups is a live sound reinforcement tutorial featuring the Behringer XR18 and Midas MR18 information. This is a Behringer tutorial / Church sound tutorial & live sound mixing tutorial. Topics include: Behringer Setup (Behringer XR18 Setup and Midas MR18 Setup).
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Please watch: "5 Tips For Better Live Vocal Mixes - Mixing Live Vocals - Live Sound Tutorial on Behringer X32 XR18 "
• 5 Tips For Better Live...
~-~~-~~~-~~-~
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I see this topic of DCAs and Subgroups quite a bit. Sometimes it's direct questions, and sometimes it's during service calls for other issues and either the subgroups will be misapplied, or subgroups and DCAs totally ignored by some users because they aren't understood. So I thought I'd make a video explaining them, and hopefully help some users understood them and be better able to realize some ways they can utilize them to help their own workflow and mixing.
While it definitely is directly geared to Behringer users and the Behringer platform and workflow, the concept of subgroups and DCA's as discussed in the video is true of, and applicable to, any console. Analog or digital.
Amazon Affiliate Links-
Behringer XR18 on Amazon:
amzn.to/2LfTpmO
Midas MR18 on Amazon:
amzn.to/3q4Z4Li
Behringer X32 on Amazon:
amzn.to/35oCcyo
Midas M32 on Amazon:
amzn.to/3ovhi8n
5 Typical Mistakes Behringer XR18 and Midas MR18 Users Make:
czcams.com/video/EilVDp39A9g/video.html
Tech Videos Playlist:
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Alan like the rest of the comments, thanks so much for posting these video's. I have created a subgroup for the vocals. My question is when doing so does the subgroup EQ override individual EQ vocals on the subs? Are they completely separate. Please excuse my ignorance because I'm a bass player trying to run sound in my band. :)
@@fredconner1087 They are completely separate. The channel EQ will impact monitors if the mon sends are post EQ, whereas the subgroup EQ will only be in the house.
It's not really all that normal to do much EQ on the subgroup though since if the channel didn't do it/fix it, it's likely a house issue and done on the house EQ.
But if you cut 2K 6dB on the channel strip, and boost it 6dB on the subgroup, then you've effectively gotten yourself a net gain of nothing since you just put back what you took away on the channel. OTOH, that would be in the house... because if the mon sends are post EQ, you'd still have that 6dB cut at 2dB in the mons because the subgroup EQ is separate and only applied to the house mix.
Technically though, if you're wanting to do house channel strip and mon channel strip EQ from a single console (no dedicated mon console), then you'd softpatch an input to two channels (or use a Y cable) and one would only go to the house mix, and the other would never go to the house (disengage L_R). Then the channel not going to the house would be the one you send to mons and make all your monitor changes there. And any EQ tweaks you make that are channel exclusive (like the singer wanting more hi's in his voice) you'd do from that 2nd channel.
That also lets you compress more aggressively on the house channel, and compress lightly or not at all on the mon channel.
Obviously, you need a spare channel or channels to make this work. But a lot of time, you'd get away with only doing this for vocal channels, or even just the $ channel (lead vox).
@fred conner One thing I could see doing with EQ on a vocal subgroup is a LPF (hi cut). That way you save that filter on the channel strip, and then maybe use it on the subgroup to roll off some high end hash from the top of the cymbal range, etc... Something that doesn't negatively affect the vocals, but clears that hi-end excess stage wash getting in them.
Beyond that, some of the other things that I could think of for a vocal sub EQ might actually be better addressed with the Combinator inserted into the vocal subgroup. Combinator video:
czcams.com/video/6_5Wn-5Y42k/video.html
100% Agree
As far as I’m concerned Alan your videos are the definitive go to for all things X-Air. Even better than what Behringer puts out. In fact they should endorse your videos.
Thanks! I appreciate that!
AGREED 100%! I just bought an XR18 because Sweetwater was back ordered on Soundcrafts, and Behringer's 2min "push this, click this, done." Does not get it done. Your channel has been what Behringer's user's manual should be.
100%, fantastic cotent and explain so easy to understand, thansk Alan
For those who still doesn't understand DCAs, it's just a general offset for seleted channels. So if you assign channel 1 and 3 to DCA1 and increase 1dB on the DCA1 fader you are increasing 1dB on channel 1 and 3 BUT you will not see the faders of the channels moving. That's because the DCA are not a "remote controller for multiple channels" but a variable offset to each output signal of the channels in the DCA.
I had a hard time figuring this out, thanks for the extra information
Very informative and well explained video in simplistic language. Well done Alan!
Your videos are the absolute best! Keep up the good work sir.
Thank you! :)
Great stuff! Thank you for posting these!
Thanks!!
Your videos have been so helpful in helping me get my XR18 set up for my band. Thank you for your hard work in putting these out!
Great to hear!
Thank you very much for this great walk through info on the xr18
You're welcome! Thanks for watching and commenting! :)
Great series of videos.
Glad you think so!
Nice little tutorial - clear, concise and useful. Many thanks.
Thank you for the compliment and commenting!
Really like your vids on this unit! I'm an old analog sound guy and have recently bought this unit for it's enormous simplicity and no need to lug all the outside effects etc around with me. So this is a learning curve for me. Your vids are a fantastic help in getting me up with the digital age and I thank you for your vids!
Thanks! Glad they are helping!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge, very helpful info
Thanks for watching and commenting! Very appreciated!
Absolutely brilliant videos. Thank you.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Wow thank you sir. Just leaning this for the first time.
Cool! Glad it helped! Thanks for watching!
damn you saved me some headache. I've been trying for the last week to figure out how to mute specific channels from the Main LR out without muting the channels themselves or their buses on the Aux out so i could have total control on what is heard on Aux out and Main Out separately without losing access to the DCA's. Turning off "Main Stereo LR" button in the "Main" tab saved me some trouble, thank you so much!
Cool! Glad it helped! Thanks for watching and commenting! :)
Nice tutorials you make! THX!
Thanks!!
Absolutely fabulous. Subbed. Thanks!
Thanks and thanks for the sub too!
Bang on again Alan!
Thanks!
Fantastic video.
Thank you!
Your video editing skills are as solid as your mixing skills. I'm jealous.
LOL! Thanks!!
Great overview!
Thanks for watching! :)
Thank you so much for this
Thanks!!
I've had this mixer a year and am still learning. The Behringer vids are helpful but inadequate overall. Thanks for leading the way and making it easier on me. Mainly I just want to play. This wonderful mixer has been a counterintuitive obstacle course for amateur/wannabe sound engineers. Make a vid about every feature PLEEZE. I use Reaper so channel fits my poorly executed projects.
Glad to help! I'll keep churning them out. Hopefully, when the world is healthy again, I can do a behind the scenes video or two from an actual gig.
Very clearly explained. I'll subscribe and watch some more of your videos later 😁👍
Thanks!
Yet another great video. I think I would have figured this out on my own IF the channel faders would adjust along with the DCA fader.
Thanks!
IIRC, that's something that Avid does on the Venue software... The software will show you a red 'ghost' fader to indicate the DCA position of the channel faders. That would be a nice feature for Behringer to borrow for their GUI... or for Mixing Station to add.
Good information for churches and small bands to use
Big cheers men more tutorial bout xr18
Thanks! Definitely will do more!
Very helpful
Thanks!
This was a great tutorial, thank you. Now you've got me wondering about the other uses for subgroups: can you do a tutorial about that please.
I was just thinking about that as a companion video. That flexibility is why when you setup a bus to be a subgroup, and enable/assign a channel to that subgroup, the software doesn't automatically unassign that channel from the L-R. And why when you make a bus into a subgroup, the software doesn't automatically enable that subgroup to feed the L-R outs without user interaction. It leaves those options to the user.
Essentially, opening the door to your channels still going directly to L-R AND the subgroup... but the subgroup itself NOT going to the house mix. So nothing is improperly 'double-assigned'.
In the "olden days" you might do that to take the subgroup physical outputs to a 4 track (or 8 track recorder if you had 8 subgroups). (And technically, you can still do that via USB routing and a DAW, but there's not much point when you have unlimited DAW channels that can just take the feed directly from the channels (unless you want to capture your live mix in chunks I guess).
Also, parallel compression could be done this way with both compressed subgroup and normal channel(s) going to the house. But the Behringer stuff has a mix control on the built in compression for that which lets it that trick work with no concerns about latency issues and no need to double assign channels to accomplish it.
But there could still be other reasons that would still follow that type of concept and thinking if you need to group some channels, for whatever reason, to feed some independent input beside the house mix.
Noice. Thanks!
Great video, explained a lot.
Behringer make fine products, but their documentation is under all criticism.
Thanks! They definitely could do a better job with documentation.
Thanks great info! Do you assign subgroups to dca? As that’s basically your output?
Thank you for answering my previous questions... I have another question.
How can I send channel mix to the line outputs (RCA part on the flat X Air).
I'd like to set it like I set busses but I can't find it on the mixer software
Thankyou, very thorough and easy to understand tutorials.
2:49 this is why I never use the Global button, I have no idea what it does or doesn't change. Here, it does change Bus to Sub group for each channel but only activates the selected channel.
The Global button only affects tap points when it's enabled. So whatever tap point you choose on a Global enable tap point will be the same on all the channels.
It won't globally change bus levels on every channel for example.
Normally, for like say monitors, you're going to want them all the same across the channels. Whether you want them Pre EQ or Post EQ, etc...
But there could be some rare cases where you would want a channel different. The best example I can think of would be for a group using tracks that need to fade out in the house. You likely want those fading out in the monitors at the same time (otherwise they'd fade in the house and the mons would still be jamming... which if the group is on ears that could be dealt with since they'd understand the audience isn't hearing the abrupt cut off they hear. But as long as it's in live wedges... the crowd would still hear the track playing).
But if you set that one track channel to be POST FADER, then it'll track with the house channel fader.
So, turning off GLOBAL and making that change to that one channel to be a rare Post Fader monitor send would be how you'd do that.
I'm going to write down Global setting topic on a list I'm collecting for a FAQ list video or series of videos.
Hi Alan, I've been watching your videos and learning a lot, so I decided to test my luck writing a comment which I'll try to summarize as much as I can: I have the XR18 and two MICs, I do livestreaming and networking related tutorials (as you do) nothing else I use OBS to record and vMix to stream, no music or gigs, I do use the XR18 as Audio Interface and via USB with a software called ASIO Link PRO that gives me 16 WDM outs so I can map apps to mixer channels so on and so forth. I also have a VST Rack with a denoiser and gate which I use to reduce noise on my place while I stream and return the processed signal to the mixer using the same channel (CH15), all OK until I want to add a tad of reverb from the mixer FX rack and send that to OBS, signal goes with the donoise and gate but not the reverb, I´'ve tested all possible configurations and as my brother said you're doing a lot of stuff, to many turns on the signal. I relaly do not know what to do to get some reverb from teh mixer into OBS, have tried BUSes, changing Routing but none seem to work, well enoyugh fro know and if you get to see this comment, tahnsk for any light you can shed on this topic.
I've just been working on a new video about routing the FX to monitors, and for the video I need some scenes where I capture the reverb in the audio. It's pretty simple, but you've got so much going on I don't know what might work for you.
By default the reverb is assigned to the L-R outs on the FX returns. So if you're not recording the L-R bus via the In/Out USB Sends routing then you won't get the reverb. But that might not work for you anyway if you're not wanting that master L-R bus captured and are working with individual inputs.
In that case, I'd treat it like a monitor feed. If bus 6 is open, I'd set one of my USB Sends to be fed from Bus 6.
I'd go to the reverb return(s) of the reverb(s) want to hear, and I'd bring bus 6 send up to unity (bus 6 in this example).
And now you should have reverb/FX on bus 6. And Bus 6 should be coming upon whatever USB out you assigned it to.
Technically, you probably should unassign the reverb returns from L-R so you don't accidentally double assign th FX... But if you're not using the L-R bus in what you're recording/streaming/listening to then in reality it doesn't matter.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio oh man wrote my reply and it got lost -- anywho! -- I'm still lost when it comes to the routing part, this: "I'dgo to the reverb return(s) of the reverb(s) want to hear, and I'd bring bus 6 send up to unity (bus 6 in this example)." and where are the reverb/EFX returns?. Thanks SO SO VERY MUCH for taking the time to reply, just to clarify, I do understand audio and some of the terms but when it comes to digital mixers specially my XR18 routing became a puzzle. I-d really appreciate if there was any way for you to share some screenshots of your reply, altho I-ll try to replicate what you said on your extensive response. Thanks again and you've earned a new sub.
@@TikAcademy Give me a day or two to get this FX to Monitors video finished and uploaded. It's probably going to be helpful in showing some of this.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio No prob, you da master, thanks, creator to creator, CHEERS.
Hi there Dave. Can you give a more detailed explanation how exactly are you using XR18 as an audio interface for your PC? Are you using Male to Male USB cable and plug it in PC directly via XR18 usb port that is used for recording?
When sending subgroups into an aux channel, can you adjust the fader of each channel for each subgroup or does it the selected channels with the same faders as in the main output?
Thanks for the video! So once I've created a subgroup and assigned channels to it (e.g., a vocals subgroup), which layer of faders now control the vocals? It's not clear how the faders on the Main LR and the faders on the vocals subgroup layers are related? Meaning: if I have a subgroup, does it defeat the faders in the Main LR view for the channels assigned to that subgroup?
The channel faders remain active in either case. Normally, the channel faders are sending their signal straight to the L-R bus (main out). So, once you set your drum mix (for example), if your drums overall are too loud, the only answer is to reduce each channel individually, even though the overall mix was perfect...but just too loud (or not loud enough) as the show starts.
By unassigning the channels from the L-R, but assigning them to a subgroup (bus or busses for stereo... and that bus or stereo pair of busses then assigned to the L-R), that allows you a master fader (subgroup) for that drum mix to adjust the overall level of the drums that then goes to the house (main out).
So you still mix with your channel faders the same as always, but you essentially have a master control for whatever instruments or voices you'd group together.
The DCA works the exact same way... but no audio passes through a DCA. The channels still stay assigned directly to L-R. It's just riding herd over whatever channels you assign to that DCA. You can't put a compressor on a DCA like you can put one on a subgroup though (since no audio passes thru a DCA, but does pass thru a subgroup). If you don't need to add compression or some other processing to a group, the DCA is a better choice. If nothing else because you don't use up a bus (that you can save for monitors, a stream mix, aux fed subs, etc...). 1 DCA can control stereo channels. If you want to pan your channels, then you need 2 busses for stereo if you're doing subgroups.
But in either of these cases, the channel faders still get used... just like always... for your mix... But both of these methods allow you to adjust the (master) level of a group of channels so that you can maintain the relative channel mix that you've set up and are happy with IF you only just need more overall drums (or overall vocals... or whatever it might be that you've grouped together.
I see, I have this problem on last sunday Services..
I mute the LR main out and I cant get the signa bcause I using DCA...
So, when I want to glue my Drums, I need to send them to Bus, then switch off their individual LR out, and send that bus to Compressor before I send them to Main Mix??
Its helping me Sir. Thank you....
Hello Alan, great video! However, I am having a lot of trouble doing this on my Midas M32, either at the console or using the standard M32 application (by Midas) on my iPad. How can I go about quickly and easily setting up a group of vocals (for example), on my M32 console, at the console? And would you recommend continuing to use a DCA for the vocals in addition to the subgroup? Thank you very much!
I always just use the GUI on the console and set the DCA on the (I think) Config screen (of the Home button).
But I think there's another way... and it probably is a faster way.... I need the console in front of me to double-check. I think it's something like pressing the DCA button on the console to call up the master section DCA faders, then pressing whatever DCA you want to assign things to, and (probably while still holding that DCA button) press the SELECT button of any channels you want to add.
Conversely, assuming the above is correct... If you hold the selected DCA group button and press a channel select AGAIN of a channel that is IN a DCA, it'll remove it from the DCA.
I'll try and remember to doublecheck that this weekend.
Hi Alan, your videos are by far the best I've seen on CZcams. I have a question that I still have not been able to find an answer for. In X air Edit (PC), how to you set up different user layers for different events. I also want to get rid of the unused channel strips that are cluttering the mixer. I can do that very easily on my iPad, but still couldn't figure it out on PC. I know it may have something to do with the "utility" button. Do you have any videos for that? Thanks.
Thanks for watching and the compliment! I'm afraid I have bad news on the X-Air Edit front... AFAIK there isn't any way to do custom layers. It's easy enough to click the save icon and save your band shows as different scenes and create a library of shows and baselines... but no way to do like you can on Mix Station Android App and create a custom layer and remove unused channels. None that I'm aware of anyway.
If I've missed something and it IS available... hopefully someone will chime in.
On the X-Edit for the X32, you now have DCA spill... So that is a workaround for custom layers if you integrate it into the the workflow that way. But, so far, that capability isn't in the X-Air, or X-Air Edit.
BUT.... there IS a Mix Station for PC now (EDIT... well maybe.... see below...). I've not tried it, but considering it has this capability in the Android app, I'd assume it has it in the PC software too.
So, this might be the workaround for the issue. I guess I need to give it a try. Here is the link:
Upon further review... that might just be a link to download the tablet version TO your PC, but not use ON your PC. IOW, not an actual PC version.
pcmac.download/app/1438352631/mixing-station
@@AlanHamiltonAudio Thanks Alan.
Hi Alan, thanks for navigate me here.
I have this question, if I sub group my drums like what you do here to vocals, and I want to control all faders for my drums form main faders, I need to do "sub group" on any channels into that group?
Recently I just select post fader and the drums faders on main faders no affect to my drums, it just by that selected group. Thanks.
Yes... subgroup is the way to go in that scenario... But technically, it's no different than a post-fader send method as long as in both cases you are unassigning the channels from FOH but assigning the master send instead to FOH.
The thing the subgroup setting does is automatically set the channel send at unity and just make it either on or off. Whereas, the post-fader method requires you to perfectly set the fader to unit on each channel you want in that sub-mix. So, it's simpler to set and simpler to track visually. A subgroup is either on or off and automatically at unity and a quick glance at the channels shows you what is what on subgrouped channels. If the channels are set as post-fader, it's a little easier to accidentally grab a wrong send in the heat of battle and change something accidentally since the sends are all faders in the XR18. A subgroup is obviously set to subgroup and impossible to change the post-fader send level on the sends screen.
Hey Allen! This video was super helpful, thanks for spending the time making it! I do have one quick question about DCA functionality. I'm setting up an IEM system for my band and we're going back and forth on whether we need the X32 or XR18. My main concern is a limiting number of busses on the XR18 for the number of individual IEM mixes we'll need. I'm pretty new to the world of mixing...so if I have 5 buses allocated for individual mono IEM mixes, but I want to group the drums together in a way that we can each control the overall drum volume level into our mixes with one fader instead of having to volume adjust all those parts (kick/snare/hi hat) individually on each mix, will a DCA allow me to do so? Basically when I group the drums into a DCA, do you know if that drum DCA volume level can be adjusted differently inside each individual bus/mix ouput? Or would I need to put the drums in a subgroup to be able to manipulate them like that? Thanks in advance for the help!
The quick part of your question is "no". The DCA won't do you any good for what you're wanting to do because the only way to tie the monitors to that would be to set the mon sends on the drum channels to POST Fader. At that point, adjusting the DCA would change the monitor levels, but it would change ALL the mixes on those drum channels. And the house too.
I'm trying to wrap my head around any option for the XR18 to do what you want and I'm drawing a blank. EXCEPT... if you're using Behringer P16's as part of your IEM setup. Those would allow you to assign a bus to of the Ultranet outputs, and that allows each P16 user to adjust his/her mix however they want. And if the drums are routed to a bus, and the P16 out in the console set to route that bus to one of the P16's channels, then that works.
But here's the thing... I'm not even 100% sure if there's a way (beyond that) on the X32 to do it either.
I THINK it would require feeding your IEMs from the 6 matrixes (so if you need 5 mono mixes then that part works).
So, mon mix one output would feed matrix one at unity. Mon mix two would feed matrix two at unity.... so on...
You'd set your monitor busses up normally on the channel strips, and you'd adjust them normally too. They'd simply feed thru the normal mon output into the matrix output first, and the IEM transmitter would be connected to the matrix (one for each mix).
The sole exception would then be you'd have a drum subgroup and that drum subgroup would have 5 feeds to the matrixes enabled. When someone wants to adjust the drums in their 'mix', technically, they'd adjust their matrix feed in the drum subgroup. So it's one level control for the drum mix, for each musician. All independent.
That probably sounds more complicated than it is, because of that extra matrix step, but in reality it would probably make more sense when it's right in front of you.
Heh... I'm sitting here waiting on a phone call and trying to think thru and type this quickly. I feel pretty good that method would work like you are wanting...
I'm less confident I'm not overlooking a more simple answer because I'm rushing thru the steps in my head.
I don't know how the cost balances out when you add 5 P16's to the price of the XR18 versus an X32. I don't think I'm overlooking anything on the XR18 to do this except the P16 idea. Maybe I'm overlooking another way on the X32 though... But it SEEMS like the X32 would only have the matrix option OR the P16 option.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio I really appreciate the in depth response! All things considered, the X32 is probably a better option for what we're wanting in our setup. It'll just a be a little easier with less equipment. Thanks again Alan!
This is awesome. Thanks a lot man! Keep those videos coming please!
I wonder if assigning the subgroups and renaming the busses is possible on the X air iPad app?
I'm not sure. I don't have an iPad. Since they went to the trouble of putting it in the X-Air Edit software, I don't know why they wouldn't in the iPad app as well.
Yes it is possible.
To assign a channel to a subgroup: click on one of the channels that you want to subgroup, then click on the SENDS tab found at the top of the mixer. The screen will be split into 2 halves: the channel faders are on the bottom while the half top half of the screen will have the faders for each of the bus sends and effects sends. Click on the send you want to use as a subgroup and, to the right of the faders, you will be presented with the options for the send. Click on SubGroup option to reassign that bus: the send fader for that bus will change into a switch that you need to turn on the switch to send that channel to the subgroup bus. Unfortunately, there isn't a GLOBAL icon so you will have to do this for each channel that you want to assign to the subgroup. When you have completed that step, click on the relevant bus button found to the right of the channel faders, then click on the output fader so you can send the that bus to the MAIN STEREO output by clicking on the LR switch. As stated in the tutorial, you will also have to take the individual channels out of the main outs too: click on the channels that have been sent to the subgroup, click on the OUTPUT tab at the top and deselect the LR button.
To rename the bus:
From the main screen, click on the setup tab then click on layout. Scroll up or down through the scribble strip (found to the right of centre of the top half of the screen) and click on the box assigned to the bus chosen for subgrouping to rename and colour it.
Great info! Thanks!
@@reedbass5644 thanks a lot for taking the time to explain this in full details. Much appreciated 👍🏼❤️
@@AlanHamiltonAudio You should do a video on this or update this video to include it.
Hey Alan. These videos have been really really helpful. I set up sub group of drums exactly as is in the video, how do control the drum sub group level in all the monitor buses and the FOH. I have the x air 18 and cannot assign the drum bus to a channel, or am I thinking this the wrong way?.Any tips would be great. thanks again!!!
Unless you're using the P16 for your mons, there's not really a way. The P16 should allow (via Ultranet routing) a bus to be one of the 16 'channels' that a user would have the ability to dial in as mix input. But, the regular I/O doesn't have a way to assign a bus/subgroup to a mon mix.
So, short of that, your drum submix would exist for the house, but mons won't follow it.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio thanks!!!! I thought was going mad.
great and clear explanation, is there any update for XR 18 to use one Bus used as Group to use it as mono or stereo group without using another Bus just to make it stereo ?
No. If a DCA won't suffice, a stereo subgroup will still take 2 busses.
I believe Mixing Station (app) does add a way to get more DCAs rather than just the 4 standard ones on the XR18 though. But again, that doesn't gain you anything if you're wanting to insert something on a stereo bus.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio because its an internal processes and routing i thought maybe a bus could be stereo group for adding eq and compression to say drum group without needing sacrificing another bus . Thanks for the great info👍
These videos are amazing.
Is there a way to duck reverb through side chain comp?
Off the top of my head, I don't think so. At least not easily in a normal, straight-forward way.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio thank you! I’ll look at some of your other videos about how to use fx better. I’m always afraid the verb is either too much or getting swallowed.
make a post to how to use a expander
Hi, is it possible to assign, Gain control of each group (vocals, drums, etc) to control with DCA , thanks. Greetings from Perú
No... Only channel faders can be controlled with a DCA. Not the inputs. But, on any channel that is controlled by a DCA, any post fader sends will also change with the moving of the DCA fader.
What about a DCA for drums (5 piece kit).... can you do anything with the DCA for the individual Aux mixes? For ex: I want my guitar player using an iPhone to move all the drums up or down in his mix without affecting mine (I am using main L/R out as a stereo monitor mix as the drummer).
Off the top of my head... I don't think so. I can think of some ways to do it as far as what needs to happen, but nothing actually lets you make the connections you'd need to make to do it on the console.
I suppose if you split the drums into two channels, one set for house and all EXCEPT drummer monitors, one for drum mix only monitors, you might be able to do it that way. But odds are 16 channels isn't enough to make something like that practical.
Important thing about having a fader available (be it in the mixer page of the mix you've selected or in the "sends" tab of a channel (that's how it works i the Mixing Station app)) when your tap point is a "subgroup" :
- when in a subgroup the channel is sent to unity to the bus, so the fader doesn't do anything
- but if you switch back to another tap point (that is not a subgroup), then that fader value is gonna matter
- so even when you're in a subgroup, the fader is there for you to see and adjust the send level BEFORE switching back to another tap point (that is not a subgroup)
Explained to me today by David Schuman from Mixing Station.
Yeah, that's what it looked like to me, but there's no real reason to give a user access to a (non-functioning) fader in Subgroup mode. It should just be greyed out. And there's no reason to change the fader because you know you're going to change to a normal send. You should only get access to that fader after you've made that bus mode change.
Otherwise, it's just a confusion point that shouldn't exist. It's blacked out on the Sends window, as it should be, so it should be blacked out/missing/greyed out on the 'SOF' view as well. IMO...
Obviously, it's good that it doesn't actually do anything when you move it in SUBGROUP mode, but just as obviously, it's a confusion point to even give users the LOOK that it's adjustable. It's a fixed point, unity level, feed in subgroup mode, as it should be, so it should either show you that and give you no ability to change it... or just grey it out.
As a MR18 user I love these super helpful videos. On this one though I'm confused by the use of the global setting. In simple terms the term 'global' puts me off because I assume the setting affects everything. Just the thought of applying any change to everything seems like a non-starter. What am I missing here? How can you apply a change to everything without making unintended changes? If the global setting is somehow limited when used in context, what's the limiting factor and why then do they use the term 'global'? Thanks.
The global setting only applies to the tap points of the channel sends. This video talks about tap points: czcams.com/video/hUxVALTQ3Po/video.html
It doesn't include anything else to do with the channel sends. For example: if you have a channel send set at unity, the global option won't set every channel send to unity.
It's just the tap points (sometimes called 'pick points') that it will allow you to set globally. The meaning goes back to the signal chain and the point where a send is 'tapping' or 'picking' the signal from within the chain.
It also works only on one bus send (channel send) at time. If you turn global on, and then change the bus 1 send to post fader, it'll only globally change all channels on bus 1 to post fader. It won't change bus 2, bus 3, bus 4... etc... It's only globally across just that single bus (that you choose), but on each channel.
So with that in mind, when you look at a typical console setup, the channel sends (TYPICALLY) will match, from one channel to the next (not necessarily bus 1 to bus 2, but bus 1 of one channel to bus 1 of the other channels... bus 2 to bus 2 of the other channels). For example, if bus 1 is a monitor send on channel 1, then it'll be a monitor send across the board. And if you're doing monitors from FOH, it'll be at some point "pre-fader". So it makes sense to turn "global" 'on' and then when you set bus 1 to be a pre-fader tap point, it'll set EVERY bus 1 (channel send) on each channel to match and be that same pre-fader tap point.
Or maybe you're creating a stream mix on bus 6. One technique is to use POST-Fader for a stream mix so that it'll follow you're channel fader moves (which you don't want happening with monitors... normally). You can set the baseline mix on bus 6 on each channel at whatever makes a good 'normal' balance. Then, when a guitarist takes a lead, or your lead singer switches to another performer, when you bring the fader up it will also bring that post fader channel send up.
So, again, knowing that you want every bus 6 (channel send 6) to be Post Fader, it makes more sense to do that globally. Change one channel, and ALL channels now have a Post-Fader bus 6.
Same is true for subgroups... Let's say you want to make bus 5 a vocal subgroup. While, technically, you only HAVE to make bus 5 a subgroup on the vocal channels... If you set it globally so that bus 5 is a subgroup on ALL channels, then it can be overall less confusing and not as prone to accidents. Then you just unassign every channel from the vocal subgroup EXCEPT the vocals (or vice versa).
So, MOST of the time IMO, you'll want global. But there's a good reason they give you a channel by channel way to change that. Maybe for some specific reason you want a single channel to not follow the norm. Example: You have tracks on channel 16. You WANT the tracks to fade out in the monitors when you fade the channel fader. That way, the crowd isn't hearing the tracks in the monitors droning on at full volume when you faded them in the house. To allow that not to happen, you set the monitor sends only on channel 16 to be POST fader. Now they'll follow what the channel fader does.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio Thanks for the great explanation. I'm learning (obviously) and it seemed like one of those things where I might know just enough to be dangerous. Frankly, like many things, it will take some time and doing it for it to sink in. Meanwhile I'll keep your explanation handy for when I'm unsure. Thank you very much.
Hi Alan. Please make a tutorial vid on how to save scenes inside the Air 18. Everytime I start a session, must transfer settings from PC to Mixers. Can barely hear instruments through mixer without PC to mixer transfer. Mixer works OK during that session, even if PC is off or rebooted. Next session, must do PC to mixer transfer
Hmmmm... Are you saying the mixer isn't remembering the last show? It should automatically remember the last show, and you should be able to grab the tablet and go without needing to connect the PC. Or if you mix with the PC, you should be able to tell it 'mixer to PC' and load the last show from the XR to the PC... and it be just like you left it the last show.
Something must be off somewhere if it isn't working that way for you.
Maybe something in the "Safes"??
I don't even know if that would matter from how it sounds.
The X32 has a "Master Safe" setting (Not sure if that is exactly the name) that will wipe the master out on reboot. I never use that, so I don't know if the XR maybe has that option... Would that be it? ...It's just turning your main fader down when you reboot?
Give me more details. I'm going to have to see if I can replicate it.
There IS a "Mute outputs at power cycle option" in the "Setup" menu... "Audi/Midi" tab....
Mine is unchecked. Is yours checked?
Assuming it works like I think, that should mean your last show wouldn't just be weak, it would be muted (or faders down)?
I haven't tested it... But I just looked in the setup screen for options like I was talking about with the X32 and see this.
Is there of any advantage of using drums in a stereo sub group or just run kick and snare in a group to run group compression and just compress rack and floor Tom compressor separately and be able to still pan them left and right and not waste an extra bus that could be used for another Monitor mix
On the X-Air, if I needed the buses for monitors, I'd just compress the drums individually and not worry about an overall drum bus compressor... so skip the subgroup, and then assign the drums to a DCA for overall drum mix level control.
Although, I can see some merit in what you described (kick and snare to a subgroup where you comp them). So, comp them individually on the channels to knock of the peaks, and comp them in the bus to smooth them out (since the peaks are already gone and won't be triggering the bus comp needlessly). I might put the hat in that subgroup too.
Then, assuming you're wanting the toms panned, just assign them straight to the L-R and skip the subgroup.
You could still send all of the drums (kick, snare, hat, toms...) with your method to a DCA for overall drum mix control. So that works pretty good in a best of both worlds scenario and still frees up a bus for mons.
Thanks again for your wisdom, my lord there is a steep learning curve with the digital mixers ….! So many options….!
Could you tell me how to access DCA faders from the iPad app?
Maybe someone else has that info. I use Mixing Station on Android and X-Edit and X-Air Edit. I don't have an iPad :(
If you have a subgroup with channels sending to FX (post fader) would it be wiser to just send the subgroup to the FX bus instead? Such that adjusting the subgroup adjusts the send to FX (post fader) instead of using channel sends.
I'm not sure I follow your routing. You can't send a subgroup to the FX sends. Or did you mean send the FX returns to the subgroups (instead of L-R and then send the subgroup to L-R... Example: The vocals and FX all sent to the same vocal subgroup)? You can do that.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio The latter. What I said doesn’t make sense lol. That way it’s possible to control the FX level in proportion to the dry signal with one fader move.
Whats the difference between setting a mix bus to be post fader and setting it to be sub group ?
Post fader allows adjustment. Subgroup sets the feed to unity and allows no adjustment (other than to choose if a channel is on/off in the subgroup).
You can make (for example) Aux 6 a subgroup on every channel, then only assign the drum channels to the subgroup while leaving it OFF on every other channel.
You can unassign the drum channels from L-R, and on the main AUX 6 output, assign it to L-R.
Now all the drums will go through the subgroup and it is the main control for their overall level. You can also compress all of the drums in that subgroup if you want.
If you want stereo vs mono, then you need two subgroups for that.
I'm not quite understanding the DCA... Is it essentially a group that has no ability to apply EQ/Compression? The only control you have on the DCA is the volume of the channels you are sending to that particular DCA? So for instance, if I have 4 drum channels (kick, snare and overheads) and apply gate, eq and compression to them, and then send them to DCA 1, this DCA1 just allow me to control the overall volume of those 4 channels together (not the single faders, but a single "DCA Fader"?
Well, you can group channels TO a DCA, but they aren't running THRU anything. You can't apply compression or EQ to a DCA because the audio isn't going thru anything. And you only need one DCA for stereo because the channels aren't being funneled down to go through a bus.
A DCA is just a master level control that can be assigned to a group of channels. Or even just one channel (which you might do for workflow reasons on a larger console to always have a fader on the top surface when mixing... like for FX or a delay... or a lead guitar...).
The audio path is still channel to L-R main out (unless you send it to a subgroup first). The DCA doesn't become another bus in the middle of that.
And the faders follow what the DCA tells them... so Post Fader sends react to the DCA since the faders are reacting to the DCA (even if you don't see them physically move).
Some manufacturers console software will show you a ghost fader on DCA controlled channels so you can see the actual fader level after the DCA has been applied to it... but AFAIK Behringer doesn't do that anywhere. It would probably help if they did. But of course, back in the analog days we didn't have a GUI to even show a ghost fader anywhere.
In analog world a VCA was essentially the same concept. The beauty of it was the channels did NOT pass thru a bus before hitting the mains... So it was a more direct signal path for channels to the outputs if you wanted them grouped. Less circuitry in the way. Theoretically, then that would make for a cleaner signal path. That part is probably less important on a digital console anyway, but they are still nice because it allows you to group channels and keep their stereo panning intact without the need for a stereo subgroup. Which can start taking up your busses that you might need for other things.
Plus it's just one fader instead of a pair to control panned channels and retain the panning when they are grouped.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio Ok so if I understand correctly. I could use groups and DCA for the same purpose of controlling the volume of a group of channels with one single fader. But, a DCA doesn't allow for inserting effects (assuming channels go directly to the DCA here). So for instance, if I want to apply an effect (for instance, a reverb) to the "drums" as a whole (not individual channels), I cannot do that with DCA, but only with subgroups. I also understand that I could potentially route the subgroup further to a DCA but I think that is not what I'm looking for here.
@@MrGalassi You pretty much have it correct... BUT... when you talk about adding reverb to a group, on the Behringer platform that's not something you could do anyway. Behringer reverb plugins don't have a mix (wet-dry balance) knob. So inserting a reverb into a subgroup would get you a 100% wet signal. No dry drums at all. There might be a random Behringer reverb plugin that has a wet-dry control so I shouldn't definitively say ALL the Behringer reverb plugins don't... but all of the ones I've ever used on Behringer do not have a wet/dry control. So, it's worth keeping that in mind if you go down that road and look at the options.
Obviously, send/return reverb FX don't need a wet/dry balance control. I suspect this is the reason that Behringer might've left this option off the plugins because it eliminates a bit of operator error while not really harming flexibility too much.
People that don't understand what a knob does tend to put that knob in the center. And since most of the time a reverb will be a send/return effect in live audio work, it should be 100% wet in that scenario. Setting it at anything else would actually raise the channel signal AND reverb when the reverb send (or return) was increased (or even lower it in the opposite scenario). Which could lead to mix issues and feedback. I've seen this enough on service calls to know it happens in the analog world, especially with installations and volunteer techs, or bands doing their own sound with little engineering experience. So, Behringer might've been getting ahead of the curve by just eliminating that possibility.
But I digress... ;)
I use dca's on drums once they are mixed individually first.Then assign them to the DCA.
I do the same for dual guitars.Balance first and the assign.
Can you send DCA to different busses, or is it only for the main left right out?
You might not be asking that correctly... The DCA controls the channels. So what matters is where the channels are assigned. The DCA doesn't send them anywhere. If the channels are assigned to the L-R outs, then the DCA will control whatever channels are sent to it, and they'll go to the L-R that the channels are assigned to via the channels themselves.
If the channels are assigned to subgoups (and the channels not assigned to L-R), then that's where they'll go, with their overall level controlled by the DCA, although the subgroup master will also control the group level.
You can even have several channels, all assigned different places (some to subgroups, some to L_R), and still controlled by a DCA.
Conversely, you could have channels sent nowhere, and assigned to a DCA, and although the DCA would control the overall channels, they would not be sent anywhere. The DCA is just a master level control for what is assigned to it, and no audio actually passes thru it... so you can't send a DCA anywhere. You send the channels that are assigned to the DCA to wherever you want them.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio
Hmm ok.
So this is my scenario…
I have channels 9-16 assigned to the drum kit.
Once fader levels have been set, I assign them to DCA 1.
I now want to send that full mix (ch. 9-16) to different people using their in ears monitors on aux 1-5.
Can I do that, or do I have to manually go into each of their mixes and adjust them accordingly?
One person may want just the kick in their ears, while another wants the full kit … hence being able to send him DCA 1
@@RexyFan You have to go into each channel and select each channel and manually adjust the mixes for the musicians. The DCA only really gains you anything for house control.
If you were to set any of the monitors as post fader, then the DCA would change those settings anytime you change the DCA... but it's pretty rare to want a situation where you want FOH mix changes also changing monitor levels.
But that said, if you have a musician that wants the house drum mix, you could set the drum channels on that mix to post fader, and set those sends at unity, or set those same sends to be a subgroup... Setting it to subgroup automatically sets that send to unity and post fader. But, like I said, if you do that, that mix will track with FOH changes. So it only works if someone WANTS the FOH mix, or a portion of the FOH mix (like drums). That's not typical...
It's typical someone might want a full mix of drums, but they won't want the house mix where things could be changing. They'll normally want a mix they can setup during soundcheck and will stay the same no matter what happens with house changes.
I’m using a XR18 in a home rehearsal setting. I have active speakers on main LR outputs and am using Aux 5/6 to monitor for headphones. I set it up this way so the volume of the headphones can be adjusted via iPad, which is easier to access than the volume knob on the mixer. The only problem I have is that I then have two separate mixes that need to be adjusted on different layers, one for speakers, and one for headphones. I realize for most live performance situations this I preferred but not for this instance. Can subgroups or DCA be used to create a scenario where I only have to adjust the individual channels once and I can get the same mix to both headphones and speakers (with both outputs having the ability to adjust volume independently)? Or would I be better off to add something like Mackie Big Knob Studio between the XR and the speakers/headphones? Thank you for your excellent tutorials!
What X air app you running cause it looks nothing like mine?
X-Air Edit PC from Behringer. There's also a Mac version on the Behringer site for DL.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio okay so that's not the same program then. I have the app for android. Do you know anything about the android app? Does the app have all the same features or functions just in a different layout? Cause I can't seem to find how to make subgroups on my app. I want to send the whole mix to a subgroup so I can get a consistent compression/limiting of the mix that doesn't change when I turn up and down the L/R or Master fader. I really wish it had a pre master subgroup with not just a compresser but also a brickwall limiter.
Oh and set up all drums being controlled via a dca
Is there a difference, on x32, between bus and subgroup? Can’t I do all the same things on a regular bus?
The only difference in a post fader bus vs a subgroup is that the subgroup setting automatically sets the bus send level at unity for each channel where it's enabled (on that bus).
That way, the channel is definitely fed to the bus, and only the channel fader changes impact that bus because by setting it to subgroup, that bus is now locked into that unity setting.
Whereas, with a post fader bus, the channel fader still impacts the bus (change the channel fader and you changed what's sent in the bus, but you could have that post fader bus all the way turned down, or at any points, not necessarily relative to your channel fader setting.
IOW, if the channel fader was cranking... +5 over unity... but the post fader bus was barely on, then that bus will still be low in volume. With it as a subgroup, the bus is locked at unity and so when the channel fader is +5 over unity, it's pushing that bus feed (now a subgroup) to be sending +5 over unity on that channel.
Does that make sense? I'm not sure I'm explaining it clearly.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio thanks. Would a prefader bus be the same as a subgroup? Does the bus and sub group have the same eq options. I don’t currently use a subgroup, I’m trying to figure out if there’s any benefit to using subgroup over a “standard” pre fader bus. Perhaps this could be a short video?
@@genmce A pre fader bus wouldn't function at all like a subgroup since the channel faders won't affect a pre fader bus... which is one of the first real needs/benefits for using a subgroup.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio So - I thought a pre fader bus would also have a unity level sent to it from the channel? I’m no closer to understanding.
@@genmce - pre fader means that the channel level in the bus is not dependent of the channel level in the main LR mix, and is adjustable
- post fader means that the channel level in the bus is dependent of the channel level in the main LR mix, and is adjustable
- subgroup means that the channel level in the bus is dependent of the channel level in the main LR mix, and is not adjustable
Tell me if i'm wrong (i don't have the actual physical console with me to check that behaviour), but somethng very confusing about subgroups in XR and XM consoles is that :
- on one hand sending channels to a subgroup bus means they are sent to unity (which you can see on the "sends" tab of each channel, where there is no sends level fader, as opposed to when you send pre fader, post fader, etc)
- on the other hand, if you select your subgroup bus in sends-on-faders (SoF) mode, faders of these individual are visible, set to -inf, and can be moved.
From my understanding, If you move these faders, the channel volume in that subgroup should not change, so these faders should be greyed out, or invisible, or set to unity and unmovable, and mirror what we see in the individual channels "sends" tab.
EDIT : in the Mixing Station app, they do the opposite (i'm about to send a feature request to fix that) :
* on the "sends" tab you can see an adjustable fader for the send level, even if you're using a subgroup (which is wrong IMO since it is supposed to send at unity)
* on the mixer page of the subgroup bus in sends-on-faders (SoF) mode, there is no fader, which makes sense since the send is a unity
You're not wrong, but I've never thought to try what you tried. I just looked on the software and see what you're seeing, but I did notice that when you set a channel to SUBGROUP and then go to the bus page (SOF) none of the faders are up, even on channels assigned to the subgroup. That's making me wonder if the channel sends/faders are 'dead'/bypassed so even though we're seeing them, and can even move them there, are they actually doing anything?
I don't have a console connected. I did notice when you set them, if you switch a channel to another SENDS mode, it remembers that fader setting. Which is the same thing that happens if you switch a non-zeroed out channel to subgroup mode from something else.
So, I'm guessing those faders on the SOF page aren't really doing anything. On the MIXER tab (where you just see a SENDS graph), if you look at BUS 6 you'll just see either lighter ON or a non-lighted ON across the mixer on Subgroup channels.
Plus, since you can set channel sends to tap points individually, even though that would be odd for a subgroup option, you'd be able to use that SOF view and ability to change those other levels. So my bet is that any channels in SUBGROUP mode are ignoring the fader in SOF mode. But, any channels that might not have subgroup enabled would still be paying attention.
Probably need to try this sometime and confirm that.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio Exactly. So my point is that if the fader does nothing because it is a subgroup, then there shouldn't be a fader :) , just like in the "sends" tab of the channel (because it's not needed and it brings confusion)
I will also try it out myself on the real console when i have the opportunity.
@@djabthrash Yip. I agree. It should be grayed out or missing entirely in that view. And HOPEFULLY it doesn't actually do anything as it is now... because that would be the worst situation of all. It would be very confusing.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio Yup
@alanHamiltonAudio : Today i figured out the fader thing when in a subgroup( see comments above) :
"Important thing about having a fader available (be it in the mixer page of the mix you've selected or in the "sends" tab of a channel (that's how it works i the Mixing Station app)) when your tap point is a "subgroup" :
- when in a subgroup the channel is sent to unity to the bus, so the fader doesn't do anything
- but if you switch back to another tap point (that is not a subgroup), then that fader value is gonna matter
- so even when you're in a subgroup, the fader is there for you to see and adjust the send level BEFORE switching back to another tap point (that is not a subgroup)
Explained to me today by David Schuman from Mixing Station."
Is is possible to name a DCA? I have some custom views where I have only the DCAs and the main LR but can't name them
Yes. I know from X-Air Edit on PC it's possible. Select the DCA, which makes the master section on the screen that DCA fader.... In that master DCA fader 'tray' right click the DCA X (X will be the number of the DCA you've chosen) button above the fader. That should bring up the naming and coloring options for the DCA.
I've not checked on Mix Station to see how to do it there... and don't have an iPad.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio brilliant!!!! I was able to name them in the computer and they show as well in the iPad. Thank you very much!!
Hiiiiii AL. 🙌
Please my live streaming always sound,s very bad when using this behringer xr18
Are you mixing exclusively for the stream, or are you mixing live and sending the same live mix to the stream?
Bonjour,
Ce tuto à l'air super. Dommage que mon anglais technique soit insuffisant. Existe-t-il un équivalent en français de cette qualité ?
J'ai ajouté des sous-titres en français. est-ce que cela aide?
@@AlanHamiltonAudio Merci pour l'ajout des sous titres :)
@@AlanHamiltonAudio You rock
How do you oan channels sent to a group
You can pan channels when you stereo link the groups to create a left and right group. That then enables a pan control in the sends window (and the 'Mixer' window too).
I don't remember which video discusses this in more detail but I have a channel walk-thru video:
czcams.com/video/xPsSPK6RKzU/video.html
...and an All About the Outputs video:
czcams.com/video/UNO-dACc7YY/video.html
So, you might want to check those out too because it's easier to see it in action than explain it in writing.
Guys.. I have done everything is in the video but why am I still having sound on the PA even if the bus where I assigned the subgroup is mute?
Have you checked your mon busses in the output section to make sure they aren't assigned to LR? That's one way this could happen... though someone the other day had a faulty console causing this problem.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio thanks Alan.. what I have done is to check the bus (subgroup) output on and the individual channel uncheck the stereo L/R as it is on the video... But I will try what you have just said.. I will let you know... Thanks Alan
@@willymillan If it help, what I was talking about is in this video in the "Why do I hear the monitors in the mains" section"
czcams.com/video/x9wciA2wFd0/video.html
@@AlanHamiltonAudio the subgroup doesn't work.. the channels I select for the subgroup can't be controlled in the bus fader. I have tried everything and it doesn't work. I want to create the subgroup because I want a general EQ for all those channels that I cannot do with the DCA... I think I will try a factory reset.. :(
@@willymillan If you want a second pair of eyes to look at the scene you can email it to me and I can see if I notice anything wrong/missing.
How can I access all 12 buses on the X air x18?
Not sure what you mean, XR and MR18 have only 6 buses (6 physical aux outputs on the mixer). The big boy mixers like X32 and M32 have like 16 outputs. So yeah!
Like it said in the video, you can use all 6 for 6 monitors, or 3 stereo in ear mixes, or maybe 3 stereo subgroups etc :)
There are 6 XLR Aux outs and 1 stereo out (a Left and a Right ). Each channel has 6 bus sends that can be assigned to those outputs. You do have the FX busses on each channel, but those are 'hard-wired' to the FX Rack. You can't steal any of those and re-position them to feed an XLR output, and even if you could, there are no spare outputs on the panel to send them too. On the X32 you have 16 XLR outs and you can reassign any of the 16 busses to any of those 16 outs, stealing from the FX busses if you want to (technically the X32 doesn't have FX busses... it just allows you to use any of the 16 busses as FX sends and the default configuration is busses 13-16 are assigned to the FX rack).
This video about the outputs on the XR18 or MR18 might explain it better:
czcams.com/video/UNO-dACc7YY/video.html
i want know if is possible to send a group of channels to an aux, but in a group not 1v1
I'm not sure I follow the question. What is it you're trying to do?
@@AlanHamiltonAudio
I want to know if it is possible to send a group of channels to an aux, lets suppose I made a subgroup or a dca or idk, 8 channels for drums for example. How can I take all 8 drum channels into an aux mix (bus) without having to raise each individual fader.
@@OfficialDestelax Let me see if I follow... You want to group your drums (for example) together. Now that you have them together, they're obviously going to the house (I assume that is part of the equation?) but you want to be able to also send that mix of drums, just as it is, to a mon mix. Is that part right or am I missing it?
@@AlanHamiltonAudio yeah! having a group of channels in front of house you can control them with DCA, but how do I send that 8 channels easy to my bus mixes whit out raising those 8 faders individually to all my auxs
@@OfficialDestelax I had to think about this... I don't think there is an 'official' way to do it. On the X32, you could do it via the matrixes I think, but the XR18 doesn't have matrixes.
I don't think you can do it via subgroups either, since you'd need to tap a subgroup to go to a different mix and the XR doesn't have that option either (that's where a matrix would've worked for this on the X32).
Sooooooo
The question becomes... Is there some workaround? I think, although I'm not at a console to try this, there IS a workaround. It would only work for DCA groupings.
Let's say you have a keyboard player on Aux 1. So he/she is mix 1.
You have your drums all on DCA1.
On the drum channels, go to each channel individually and assign bus 1 to be a subgroup.
Just on the drum channels. Although, you can do this for any group of channels you have assigned to different DCA's.
But, there's a point of diminishing returns with this method, so it's probably best just to do it on whatever DCA group is the most important one that you want to send your complete mix to the mons as a group.
That's why I suggested drums, assuming that's the one with the most channels.
You also would do this for each mix you wanted to send the drums as a group to the individual mix. So, mix 2/aux2 you'd assign the drum channels' bus 2 to be subgroups too.
Note: Don't use the global icon... we ONLY want the drum channels to have these groups as subgroups. The rest of the channels they'd remain normal pre-fader auxes/busses.
Since these auxes are normally your mons anyway, the aux busses would NOT be assigned to the L-R like you'd do for a typical subgroup. So that part should already be correct.
Here's where the real compromise comes in-
This workaround is going to send the drums, at whatever your house mix is, at unity to the mons. So, you'll have to get your drums (in this example) sent to the mons first, and then layer the other parts of the mon mixes on top of that. You won't have a way to adjust the master level of the drums in the mon mixes. You'll have a master level for each mix, just like normal, but no way to drop the drums by themselves, without the house level changing too.
Of course the drums in the mons will change with your house changes, but they were always going to do that with any method that would tap your subgroups for mons.
This method does what it does because when you tell any channel's busses to be a subgroup, all it's really doing is creating a post fader send, that is frozen at unity.
So, therefore, whatever the faders are set at is what the 'subgroup' will see. And the DCA controls the overall level of that group of channels.
Meanwhile, the XR allows you to set the busses to be pre/post/subgroups on a channel by channel basis if you don't choose the "Global" icon before you start making changes.
This is probably more simple in practice to setup that I made it sound.... LOL...
Mixing this way, and if it really works like you hope... I don't know... You'll just have to try it and see.
Hope this makes sense and helps. I think I thought it thru properly. If not maybe someone will point out something I missed!
I don’t understand why people do this instead of just doing it on the individual level. You can set compressors the same or different for different vocalist.
You can lightly compress the individual channels, then send them to a subgroup where you use a bus compressor to glue things a bit tighter. For one thing, since the channel comps are taking peaks off, the bus comp will (or can) be working smoother and in a more limited range.
Also, some people like the 'sound' that a vintage comp can impart when inserted on a group.
Another thing is monitoring, singers don't like heavy compression on their voices when monitoring themselves (typically). If you're tapping the mon send where it's also sending compression to the mons, then a compromise is to go much lighter on the channels, or do away with it entirely, and use the bus compression. Obviously, this is a small venue/small system issue... not something you'd have to concern yourself with if a monitor board is in use (or a large enough console to split channels for mons from FOH).
because if you want to use just one fader for multiple sources it could be super useful. I have multiple sources that are stereo instead of mono, and for it to be heard in Left Ear and Right Ear i have to set control for Bus1 and for Bus2 separately. Using DCA's or Subgroups eliminates the hassle of controlling the right or left ear separately with each fader, and instead you control it as a single stereo channel with one fader on DCA.
Why all the confusion with the “drill sergeant” ? That throws all beginners off, and confuses people.
Simply call a DCA, a Remote Control. Simple.
Anything to drive home the point that a DCA is unlike a subgroup and no audio passes 'thru' a DCA.