How the WoW Writers Can FIX THE HORDE | Pyro Reacts to Sixsten
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- čas přidán 8. 04. 2024
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Original video: • How to Heal the Horde
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![The Story of Thrall - Full Version [Lore]](/img/n.gif)
Thanks for checking out the video!! 🎉
No u
Aye, congrats on getting some more recognition from a bigger WoW creator. 🙏🔥 Well deserved.
The problem with the Horde has absolutely been that the game wants you to feel bad about your team over and over. They need to let the players be excited about being the horde, not like they made the wrong choice. It's why Garrosh is so polarizing. Morality of what he did aside, he did it with moxy and invited the player to as well. Thrall used to have that moxy too as well as a real cause, and so he was most peoples' favorite character coming off the heels of Warcraft 3.
Exactly. They can be brutal (it goes for the humans as well btw) but still do it without the perspective of a narrator who says you are wrong. In WC2 I really liked the mission briefings, like this: "All who oppose the Horde must be taught a harsh lesson - leave no one alive!"
I still love Garrosh and wish I could have sided with him durring the second half of MoP
@@hault360 weird take
2:33 those "dots" look like a circle of stars to me
Instead of Vulpera, arcane nightelves, Earthen and whatever new watered down race we get handed down, we need a new iconic tribal race that embodies the strength and honor of the Horde from Warcraft 1-3.
26:21 You don't need a microwave. That's what a curling iron is for.
there's no god and no bad side in Warcraft. everyone is occasionally good and bad in their own different way
One thing I’ve come to accept about the WoW community over the years is that we are not all the same, but that’s the beauty of WoW. Some of us like the lore and want to nerd out over it together. Some of us like the high-end, competitive side of the game. Some of us play causally and enjoy being in the world. And some of us love the roleplay. Something that everyone, including myself, is guilty of is criticizing members of the community that are not in their own vertical. I watch a LOT of Pyro’s videos, just about every single one for the last year and I love them. But I notice he does the same thing too. I am a player who enjoys the lore extensively, but I also am a high-end mythic raider and sometimes I feel called out when that topic comes up in streams or videos. I felt that same sense here, where Pyro criticized the people who enjoy the emotion of savagery that the Horde evokes for some people. In my opinion, there’s nothing wrong with that. If some players feel the Horde should return to its roots and be a faction of ruthless bloodshed I feel like that should be embraced just as much as those that believe the Horde and Alliance should get along and maybe even merge into one. These different opinions are what makes WoW special. Because there are so many different kinds of players and opinions, it makes WoW feel like an actual world, full of people who believe differently. All that to say, I think every member of the WoW community should consider that at the end of the day it’s just a game, and so who cares how other people view the game, as long as people are still having fun let them obsess with whatever the want, as long as it’s not hurting anyone.
06:10 I always see them through my Warcraft 2 glasses. When I'm playing an orc we just doing what we should. It's not like killing humans is "evil" or something. That is my primary problem with WoW Horde through the years. It started with Thrall in WC3 but later they really went into this idea that the Horde need redemption, change etc.
Outstanding video Pyro! I would just like to add my journey with the Warcraft universe. I started with Warcraft Orcs & Human in 1994 when I got my then at the time brand new 486 DX2 66. I loved WC1 and really enjoyed the Orcs, how they fought, and backstory to them invading the human Kingdom of Azeroth. So in that game and instance I was Orc focused. As for years I would always refer to the area where Stormwind is as Azeroth, because that was my intro.
Fast forward to WC2 and its expansion. I really fell in love with the Kingdom of Lordaeron, though I was initially annoyed at the addition of all the other races as I had liked the Orcs vs Humans only of WC1. That didn't last because I really liked everyone and all the characters brought into two. That being said I was Human and specifically The Kingdom of Lordaeron.
When WC3 came out. I was deeply sadden to see Lordaeron fall, but was happy to see the new Horde rise as well as the introduction of Tauren and shamanism. However I also loved playing the Undead so when it finally came time for World of Warcraft to release. Almost all my characters where Forsaken and those that were not were shamans. I viewed my Forsaken characters as those from Lordaeron but fell and now in undeath still serving the kingdom. So lore has played a major role for me and the characters I play since Warcraft became an MMO.
Thanks for all the videos. I can't play as much nowadays, but I can listen to these videos!
“Yer telling me.” -Pyro, 2024.
What if not opening so many portals but Azeroth sucking the spirit through the gateway
You imagine being a horde Druid coming walking back from helping with your previous master and seeing a world tree ablaze. If druids get locked in their beast forms in stress this should have done something in game to that effect. It would have been interesting at least.Also Having the Worgen help Forsaken in some way would be kind of nice to see. Perhaps their connection with Alunes rage could maybe help calm their internal anger remember most of the forsaken are conflicted with anger or sadness or some greater emotion. I think it would be cool.
About the Horde being perceived as the villans or not as your first impression, to me it wasn’t like that thanks to Warcraft 3
They were never evil, just edgy and badass
On the Dreamcast commentary in chatter, its problem wasn't that it was too far ahead of its time, its problem was piracy being infinitely easier than paying. They had absolutely no form of DRM, any kid with a CD/RW drive was able to just download and spit out games as easy as copy pasting the game file on to the disc.
i play horde because its like a family to me
Chat gave me nostalgia for Soul Calibur on Sega Dreamcast.
Can't wait to see this, HYPE
10:34 said it for years, will still preach it now. Garrosh did nothing wrong
i feel like they are going to do something with the factions and races in the final expansion of the soul saga and idk what it is or how it will be done but my brain is just thinking a mashup faction is going to be made with titan believers and another with the ones who see the truth of the titans and yeah no clue how any of that would go down or work but i just have a feeling something big will happen.
Lovely video like always, I just wish if we had more opportunities to play as villains, or if it was viable to be one at least.
Heh, when I started at the end of BC many years ago (damn...) I saw alliance like the boy scouts, while the horde the cool guys. Obviously as an edgy teen, I went undead priest lmao. Didn't play cata, but returned on SoO and went full goblin til' today. What a change
The Horde and Alliance don't need to be in good/bad categories. They just need the ebb and flow of tension. Allow losses to matter, or victories to matter.
The collective unity would only guarantee us to always win against every enemy always. It's boring.
Thank you, finally someone who gets it
i think the having to prove themself vs seen inherently as good is a good parallel to light and shadow also
The identify of the Azerothian horde was never evil, edge lords glommed on to the appearance of evil which pretty much proved the writers right from WC3 about how they obviously felt about humans. The alliance was almost always cast as conniving evil or at best useful idiots to the conniving evil be it human or demon. The horde was always the exploited underclass who was judged for their race while showing clear signs of being just like everyone else. The whole interaction of how Jaina and Thrall meet is a common trope in almost every story focused around racism. The crowned prince literally falls to ultimate evil, the straight up 'eradicate the species' type dialogue in the entire WC3 campaign from every human who isn't directly aligned with helping the orcs. The Azerothian horde was formed from pacts of the friendly outcasts of all of the evil tribes who all broke from the corruption of the same evil forces that were always influencing everyone across the alliance. They've always been cast as the protags as heavily as like a Voltron crew.
The rant in trump mode made me give a like.
"they ruined the story" you didn't even know what was happening anyways
I just seen that part of the video; epic XD
Nah it’s annoying. I prefer his normal voice.
At the end, he keeps pushing the "times change, the game has changed" narrative. Guess what Pyro, not all change is good, and if a sizable ammount of players aren't happy with the change, is that not indicative of the change not being good for the overall playerbase and thus health of the game?
Ever since I started playing WoW I've always seen the Horde as a representation of misfits banding together to achieve greatness which I think mirrored us gamers back then perfectly, less so now but still a similar vibe. I think that's why gamers love The Horde and why the game got skewed more and more towards Horde server population-wise. I actually think that's more the reason than unbalanced race abilities biased towards the Horde races.
Also, you we're a fucking vibe and a half in this video!
PYRO PLEASE!!! 26:40
I wonder if Alliance players would've felt the same way with this argument if 'Siege of Stormwind' had been a raid, with a tyrannical Varian as the last raid boss. And then you get another King that rose up against that tyranny, just to die after a botched expansion that was cut short where he barely spent any time in it.. ONLY to be replaced with another tyrant who was a puppet of the guy who's apparently been pulling the strings for 17 years of storytelling. When the narrative makes the group you're pledged to the 'bad guy', and then later on lets you double down with Sylvanas and say "I don't give a fuck I burned that tree to the ground", I can see why there's a portion of the Horde community who's sick and tired of being portayed as the 'bad guy' and then feels like their faction spends most of the time apologizing for the bad actors that lead them.
Horde hasn't gotten anything 'cool' since the Alliance lost their minds over a zone that no one's used since Blizzard made Stormwind and Orgrimmar the only relevant cities in Cataclysm. And we had to spend two expansions putting out that fire, pun intended. (Still a cool piece of story for the Elune lore, but Tyrande's insufferable).
This is the reason why I’ve always wanted more of a loosely knitted independent 3rd faction to make things less Black and White. Most alliance and horde factions feel they only joined out of survival or the “other side” pissed them off and then got wrapped up in a dumb ideology war while being played as puppets by powerful outsiders. Hell we literally split the Pandaren. In modern WoW everything is so big having 2 factions constantly bickering with each other is dumb. If the next 3 expansions don’t build some sort of unity vs the puppet masters and outside forces everyone is screwed. Like having a slap fight on the deck of the Titanic over who has cuter socks.
This is a perfect example of how to do diversity in videogames, not how it is done in 2024. Crazy to think how games were more honestly diverse 20+ years ago.
The Trump impression gets me every time.🤣
Thrall was a surrogate Older Brother. He tried to teach Garrosh how to lead with honor, and Respect. Garrosh was young, brash, and hardheaded. Thrall left behind a blueprint in Garrosh's mind and with the people around him on how to be a warchief. Garrosh chose not to follow it, and instead chose to blame all of his problems on other people. Grommosh was a prime example of not to do, and his only redeeming quality was regaining his honor in his death.
So when Garrosh blames Thrall in the Mak'gora. Thrall was correct when he said "No, you chose your own Destiny." Garrosh did nothing but follow in his father's footsteps, and instead of choosing Fel, he chose the Old Gods.
And before I see a comment about the Mak'gora. A SMART warrior would of forbade Thrall to use his magic. Garrosh was not smart, so he F'ed around, and found it.
What drew me to the horde? *looks at my Female Belf Paladin.* *homer simpson drooling sounds* OH the people eeking out an existence? yeah yeah... . *still staring* yeah.
Wasn't Sargaras a representation of Lucifer/Satan/Sauron?
The horde invaded and killed people indiscriminately first.
The Alliance retaliated as they should.
The alliance put the orcs in interment camps instead of just genocing the alien invaders.
The Alliance have given the horde multiple chances to do better (Varian letting them live, for example).
All Alliance attacks have been acts of retaliation.
The Orcs invaded azeroth again, this time without the influence of demonic blood.
The horde army genocided the night elves in a time of armistice.
The Alliance is 100% correct to annihilate the horde, if they wanted.
It's concerning that the "us vs them" mentality still exists so strongly in some players that it borders on, yknow, real world racism and bigotry
We're not that different from our ancestors.
The modern passivity expressed by the people of today is brought on by the very expression OF that brutality by society. What I am saying is society uses that brutality to suppress as much of it as it can. You are terrified by the consequences for expressing that brutality, but that doesn't mean you are actually separated from it, and you are a fool to think for one second you don't have the capacity FOR that brutality. It's just part of the human psyche, you don't live in such an environment for 30000 years for it to be erased in less than 100.
Forsaken: *repeatedly kidnaps, tortures, kills & experiments on innocent civilians*
Forsaken: wE'rE jUsT MiSuNdErStOoD..."
I think the problem is we're told the alliance has consistently tied to eradicate the forsaken but we were never actually shown that in game. It's one of those show, don't tell things. It's been said from the start they did those things cause they had to, but we were never shown that.
And what has the Alliance done since Arthas turned human kingdoms to undead. Whatever happened to looking for a cure, Jaina? Uther? Kirin Tor? The Light? They did nothing. They followed Arthas lead in eradicating their own fallen kin after the Foresaken regained control of their own minds.
I hate what BFA and SL did with Sylvanas, but the story of Warcraft has been writing the Foresaken in a corner survival wise. Sylvanas did send ambassadors to Alliance kingdoms, everyone was killed.
Constantly under attack by humans trying to "reclaim" the lands for human and nobody willing to work on a cure, why would the not only defend themselves, but fight back against the human genocidal monsters. Why did it take until Anduin to hae the thought "many of the Forsake were once human with families. Should we not at least try to welcome them back?"
It was the Tauren (Hamuul Runetotem and Cairne) who convinced Thrall to give them a chance at redemption when their own human and blood elves relatives would not. They were able to recognize the Forsaken were victims of the Legion and now the Alliance.
@@ArlongSun Lmao. You don't get to torture & experiment on civilians, then cry victim when the Alliance tries to stop you. The Forsaken aren't the victims, they're the villains. They always have been, even after they "freed" themselves. Get outta here with your Tumblr-level fallacies & excuses.
Garrosh must be ascended to a god status. I don't know how. I didn't messed up, blizz did. Their problem.
His feats are far greater than titans and sargeras combined. Even sargeras lost his mind after he met with old gods who could not break chad garrosh's will. Revendreth where bad bois should be punished could not handle him. Even maw could not handle him. After he broke "chains of domination" which alone is faaar greater feat than %99.2 of already happened warcraft feats, he would probably conquer whole shadowlands alone. Who could stop him? He was a god in his death. Blizz must bring him back as orc god.
LOL at 25 minutes, is this a Trump impersonation? That’s what came to mind first. Very humorous to me even if that wasn’t planned
Love you Pyro for speaking truth and always bravely standing on the side of compassion. 100% ethical gamer
I think what the horde needs is another fresh hothead leader similar to Garrosh but toned down
hell no, you just want to ruin the peace and return to racial genocide. Garrosh was essentially Red Hitler.
Who’s responsible for the pussification of the recent lore?
Pyro speaking facts left and right! Loved the video man!
Almost spat my coffee with your joke btw!! 🤣
I miss Garrosh, he was the best! The horde was so cool when he was Warchief and he called out Sylvanas on her crap.
Yes, the game is going woke. I hate all this “emotions” crap. Give us WAR-craft! Edgy horde is the best horde
Danuser can do well and suddenly shit the bed. Something can be so bad that people notice that it was shit at the end of his time here
Our character identity has become irrelevant over the years despite the factions, we barely make an impact we are tools for the story to move forward i barely feel more than a soldier
I really hope they continue to push the "connection with Azeroth" narrative and that way our character becomes truly part of the story rather than just a vessel through which it is experienced.
Danuser wrote these great quotes guys! Where has the darn pay off been then? no where in game...oh wait, it will be in a book that hasn't been written yet.
Very good videos, both Sixsten and Pyro. I agree with you on it, it's not everyone on EITHER side. Are we looking sideways at Turalyon? I mean, he's a whole different Alliance guy. And there have been some other Alliance folk that don't go along with the Alliance persuasion. As I've talked a lot, no "all" group is one way or the other. People are individual. There are good, bad, and indifferent in all of the "states" of Azeroth. And that's what we have, states. Like the state of Texas is Texas and they may not go along with New York in most things (I'm a native Texan) but when the chips are down and we're needing to kick someone outside who have wronged the U.S., we're going to link arms and kick that ass. Then we'll go back to jawboning about the crazy Yankee or the shit-kicking Texan. The Horde is made of up states and so is the Alliance. Each racial group is a state, with its own leadership and traditions. Alliance is the Country like Horde is. Not so much ground territory country but ideologic country.
I see another faction: Anduin, Thrall, and Baine are quite a bit of alike, they all see the need for peace, but not at any cost. They know there is evil out there, some of it within their own states, and they want to get a peace that lasts so they can go after the bigger threat together. There are those in their states who don't want to get along with the "other side" and they don't like what those three are trying to do. In War Crimes, you see that a lot with the political machinations of the various aligned but non-aligned groups. Poison, hatred (earned and unearned), and a need to see retribution in some form or another are all in that one. And it's both in the Horde and in the Alliance that it's happening. No ones hands are clean on that.
I'm an author. I have a series with a LOT of characters, every one of them with their own minds, hearts, and motivations. I see that in the WoW universe too. And something that has always come across in most author's writings (not all, but....) is that a villain never sees himself as a villain, he's the hero of his own story. It's what Has Gruber was in Die Hard. It's just the way the "villain" thinks. The rest of the world casts them in the villain role because he doesn't go along with what others think is "hero".
I foresee what Pyro is saying: there's coming a time when the alignments change. Horde and Alliance won't matter as much as Azeroth. The Titans...yeah, it's coming. There are maybe even other forces we're not seeing that may not be our friends, looking at the variety in the Cosmos chart. Azeroth isn't the only one, we just see ourselves that way. We're going to fix things over the next three expansions as we re-align and start looking at forming a real cohesive unit because there's something coming, (echoing Thrall to Anduin). And it's not going to be good...
Is Pyro on drugs on something ?
Garrosh did nothing wrong
i cared about the wow story 10 years ago. i followed and watched all the youtube videos on story
Except people have loved the story up to Shadow lands. Shadow lands was rushed and it's story has heavily suffered for it but people have been extremely loving Dragon flight almost as if people can tell when a story is bad and criticize it. Good ideas don't mean much when you fuck up the execution
What the Horde needs is to retcon the retcons. The Horde should be as brutal as in WC2, but they should not be treated as evil/bad when you are playing Horde. They need to be GREEN. Brown orcs are objectively bad. The old lore was much better. Before it was said that the red glow in the eye is from the blood but the green skin was default.
And the Horde needs a real leader. That council/democracy thing just not working with the Horde. We need a Warchief like the original Doomhammer or Hellscream, Killrog etc.
Losing the old writers is the first step. Their whole thing was no nuance. Real writing of the horde would have seen most of them split after the tree burning. So go back to them both being like that. And bring back the shamanistic stuff :O
Remember that there are good signs that Metzen's return caused a lot of the . . . worst writers to bow to his vision or quit, whining on twitter
lost me when pyro srtarted bashing religion. theres no need for that. were here to have fun and escape reality, not drag it into our games. delete wow and eff off.