EU261 - The Complete Guide. Plus my experience of making a claim...
Vložit
- čas přidán 1. 07. 2024
- You asked for it! So here it is... A complete guide to EU261. I'm not sure there's another video on CZcams like this, and having made it, I think I can understand why!!!
I talk about which flights are covered, when those flights are covered and what you are entitled to when things go wrong. There are plenty of websites which contain this information, but hopefully me explaining it makes the info a little easier to absorb...
Plus I'll share my experience of actually making a claim.
This may not be a video you want to watch in its entirety straight away. But if you are delayed or cancelled, hopefully you'll remember that this video exists and will be able to come back to it then and find what you need....
⭐ #EU261 #Flightcompensation #MattsPlanet ⭐
▶ Support me on Patreon! ◀
▶ / matts_planet ◀
🛒 Check out my new Amazon Store 🛒
▶ www.amazon.co.uk/shop/mattspla... ◀
▶ Get 83% off a subscription with SurfShark ◀
▶ surfshark.deals/MattsPlanet ◀
▶ Applying for an American Express card? Email me for a referral ◀
▶ planet @ ttamsenoj . com ◀
▶ Follow me on Instagram ◀
▶ / mattschannels ◀
▶ Visit my website - www.ttamsenoj.com ◀
✉️ Business Enquiries: planet @ ttamsenoj . com ✉️
▶ Please don't forget to subscribe to my channel! And click the notification bell 🔔! ◀
⏰ Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro
1.48 - What is EU261
3:43 - What Flights are Covered
6:49 - Cancellations
9:48 - Be Active
11:39 - Duty of Care
15:21 - Compensation
17:40 - What does "Arrive" Mean
18:32 - When is it NOT the Airline's fault?
20:22 - My Claim
21:43 - Escalation
23:18 - How did my claim go?
DISCLAIMER: Links included in this description might be affiliate links. If you purchase a product or service with the links that I provide I may receive a small commission. There is no additional charge to you. This video may not be copied or reproduced without written permission.
Updates will appear here....
Hi Matt,
I just got cancelled from YVR-LHR on AA6915 (BA operated). Expertflyer shows that BA85 (the aircraft that was due to take me home) on 13 Sep was a DAMY cancellation. It never left Heathrow.
My rebooked flight was YVR-LGW on 14 Sep; a change of airport and a 16 hour delay (based on arrival times).
Slam dunk case for £520 compensation - and other expenses?
@@GG-hi5if I'd say so. Enjoy a bonus night in Vancouver!
@@MattsPlanetTrust me, I did. After stepping over all the drug addicts…!
any news ?
The video that you have kept putting off due to presuming we'll find it dull is actually one of your best ;)
Great video - you should have a million subscribers and better presence on CZcams
I agree!!!! One day, perhaps....
A video that explains how to get cash out of stingy airlines is always worth a watch to me!
Thanks Steve - I didn't really expect people to watch all of it, but hopefully they'll remember it exists and watch it when they need it! Time will tell if I'm right!
Thanks for the useful information. Just a note - a couple of years ago, we had a flight from Paris to San Francisco cancelled and rebooked through Washington DC with an overnight delay. Air France covered our hotel in DC - including meal vouchers that did allow for alcohol. I think it is up to the carrier - we were told that US carriers never cover alcohol.
Ah the French!!!! They don't mind alcohol in the same way others do! Good to know though!
Cheers Matt! Well-written and comprehensive video. Keep it up!
Thanks!
Very interesting and infirmative video! Great Job, Matt!
Thanks!
I really enjoy your videos. I think they are expertly done with a right amount of subtle humor to make them entertaining. Thank you!
Thanks so much! I try... Really hard when you're deep in the editing of a video to know whether I succeeded so it's wonderful to get this sort of feedback!
Well done! Great video. Keep up the good work. Congrats on the growth of the channel.
Thanks! Growing every day!
I love your semi-sarcastic delivery of very high quality information. Love the channel and been a subscriber since well under 1000 subs.
Thanks! I believe the youngsters would call you an OG....
Hello Matt. Great reference Vlog and very well explained.
Thanks for watching
Another informative video; thanking you for researching and sharing. It’s definitely good detail to have should something go wrong. 👍👍
Thanks - not a video I expected everyone to watch all the way through straight away, but one to remember and go back to when things go wrong. Like they are today... Spectacularly!!! Although I think its reasonable for the airlines to claim this was exceptional and so avoid paying compensation - the nations ATC system failing does sound fairly extraordinary....
Just a shout out to the BA staff at LCY. They are excellent when dealing with EU261 issues! Booked me on an alternate Lufthansa flight from LHR, covered my train fare, and then paid me out my £220 within a week of claim!
Good to know - nice that some airlines accept their responsibilities!
The amount of BA cancellations at LCY they would be very experienced with 261
It would be good to hear how well this video actually does. It’s really helpful information and clearly a lot of appreciation in the comments. Thanks for the effort that went into making this.
Thanks Ian. Thought this one would be one people would notice but perhaps not watch much of immediately... Then if something goes wrong they'll think "didn't I see a video about this???" and will watch it then. Hoping to do well in search on this topic, perhaps even across on google. A niche topic, but not well covered... We will see!
Brilliant piece of work. Thank you very much
Thanks! Hopefully it will help some people
Useful, practical stuff. Thanks, Matt. 👍 Every time I think I've understood these rules I realise there's even more to it than I thought. 🤔
Thanks Roger - the what-ifs are the painful bits... Someone I know was diverted from Gatwick to Birmingham as they missed the Gatters curfew - no idea what EU261 says when you never even make it to your destination!
@@MattsPlanetPerhaps that means you have to compensate the airline instead 😉
Outstanding video! Thanks, Matt.
Thanks
Brilliant. Really helpful!
I had a BA fight cancelled less than 24 hours I accepted a move so didn't realise I was till entitled to EU261! I've just submitted a claim based on this video. So you may have just made me £250 better off! Keep up the great work and being the best aviation creater!
Thanks! Good luck with the claim. Didn't mention it in the video but you can go back quite a long way in time with a claim too....
Interesting video on the process and some information that a lot of people might not know Matt, thanks for sharing this as a lot of travel vloggers probably wouldn't get into the "nitty gritty" like this.
Someone had to do it! I am pleased I did and now don't have to do it again!!!
Thank you Matt for this video! I found it very interesting and clearly delivered. Admittedly, I had to rewatch a couple of sections, as I was getting lost in detail here and there. As you do not have visual aid (animation etc) sometimes it's a little challenging to follow as you speed up at times... but never mind, I am more than happy to re-watch. Again, a big fan of your work!
A shout out to the BA staff too. I have had a good number of flights delayed/cancelled due to issues outside of BA's control - always exceptionally professional, helpful and always paid.
Iberia story is sad but not surprising. As you say fortunately/unfortunately, Iberia operates on 'most people will not know / bother. Lesson - always push until get the result, otherwise nothing will happen.
Thanks Sergey. I'm really not sure how well this video is going to do so held back from investing lots of time (or even money!!!) on animations... Glad I was able to explain things clearly enough though... Repeat watches help the analytics!
Great one as always! Glad you got the money you were entitled to. I’ve had the exact same experience when this has happened to me, the first claim request has always been denied but after the second request suddenly they are much more cooperative.
A request for a future video is claims for delayed baggage on the outward flight.
Thanks - lost my baggage a couple of times so I do have some personal experience to draw on if I made that video!
Sounds like a very exiting thing to research matt!
My pulse rate has just about returned to normal after researching this....
Thanks for the info + video!
Thanks for watching!
Very useful cheers Matt!
You are very welcome!
Not all CZcams videos have to cover sexy or visually interesting topics, and as you say, this subject really couldn't be described as either of those!
But hats off for making it, as the more people that claim for delays or cancellations hopefully the better the airline processes will become.
It was a video that needed to be made! So little competition its already showing up really well on Google! I fear an avalanche of claims may end up sending fares up!
Thank you, Matt. I'm glad that IB finally coughed up.
I've only had one before. BA settled it quickly. It helped in terms of evidence that the aircraft was broken and we had to squeeze on to the next..
BTW, if you're downgraded (as I was on that flight), pursue them for your correct TPs and Avios as well.
Thanks Peter. I was downgraded on DUB-LHR last year but it was a redemption so not TPs to adjust,,,
...as well as the appropriate downgrade reimbursement - 75% of the pro-rata mileage-based fare (including carrier surcharges), as per the Mennens formula.
Thanks Matt, very helpful video. Booked to fly ba for the first time next year using points I had accrued, just a shame there so London based when Manchester is my nearest airport ✈️
Editing a MAN-LHR flight this week...
KLM just cancelled my flight from Hamburg to Amsterdam (first leg of a two flight ticket to the UK). First thing I did before rebooking anything was to come back here to rewatch this video. Cheers Matt!
Hopefully it helped!!!
This is a great vid 🎉 I’m waiting on BA - 8 weeks and counting in the Gold queue…
Good luck!
I have had 2 EU261 claims, 1 for Ryanair and 1 for Aegean. Both paid out without a quibble. Great video explaining it all. :)
Good to hear Mr H - Ryanair doesn't always feature positively in reports so good to hear a positive one!
Very good video, always interesting.
Thanks so much
Very very useful. thank you so much :)
Thanks for watching!
And it looks the day has come for me to make use of this video... with the Austrian Airlines strike coming up Thursday... Thanks again Matt!
I hope you don't have to but good luck if you do (and thanks for the repeat view!!)
@@MattsPlanet Just as an update, while AUA did not fight the regular 250€ compensation for getting rebooked a day late, they did not pay for the one night hotel stay in Vienna I missed out on. Since the hotel wasn't too expensive tho, I didn't want to fight them and just took the 250€ EU261 compensation.
Informative, relevant, and helpful. This is the type of information that, while not the most glamorous of content, every traveller should know. Only ever had to use EU261 twice. Of course, it was both legs of the same trip. While I may have issue with the communication of the airline to its passengers during both delays, the ground staff were as much in the dark as we were - at least outbound. And when it came to EU261, the process was straight-forward and at least in our case, approved almost immediately. We were sent an email with a link to the online form, filled it out, and within a day or so had our response. Now, I filled out the online forms as soon as I was sent the link both times. I dont know what the regulations are regarding how long you have to fill out the form once it becomes clear you are entitled to compensation.
Thanks for that - what was the airline? You actually have several years to make a claim but its goof to get it done while you remember the details!
@@MattsPlanet The airline was TUI. One of those times when a supposed 0630 flight doesnt leave until after 1500, in our case due to a mechanical. Hardest part was getting communication from the airline as to what was going on during the delay - nobody seemed to know and everyone said yes, the flight is still going. About lunchtime we got vouchers for food. A little over an hour before we left, the email arrived RE compensation. Entered details straight away and had payment a few days into our holiday. On the return, the airport was an absolute zoo of people (PMI) and again, we had a rolling delay. Found a Priority Pass lounge close to our gate and just watched the delay. Eventually had a gate change before flight but had the same story - yes, the flight will go. A mid-morning flight that ended up leaving after 1900. Ended up with no vouchers as they were handed out at check in AFTER we were through security, but as we were in the lounge it made no odds. Once the emails started flowing, things were processed swiftly. Another mechanical, on top of which the crew bingo'd out while waiting for a replacement jet. Finally got one to get us home from Germany - which had to fly to the UK first to pick up other delayed passengers.
Great video Matt, lets hope the Singapore flight Manchester ->Houston isnt affected 🤞
Ex-UK will qualify even if its on Singapore.... You'd prefer no delay, but if there is one you should be covered.
Great job with a tricky subject - it’s the same with trains delay repay people just don’t know or don’t bother, it’s madness
Thanks - it needed to be done! And I'm glad it's behind me!
Another good video well explained. I had a recent Jet2 flight from Rome to Stansted which arrived back over 3 hours late. This was due to lack of ground staff and baggage loading delays at Rome. I submitted full details to Jet2 including screen shots of their delay text message updates and received compensation 7 days later. I also claimed from BA a few years ago after a Vancouver to Heathrow flight was delayed by the outbound flight being heavily delayed. That was also a very simple process and compensation was received very soon after completing the online forms. I think it does help to submit as much information as possible to assist the airlines, even though they know from the flight number and date if they owe any compensation.
With BA this can sometimes be counterproductive. They seem to put claims that are 1 or 2 sentences long in an "easy" pile, that will usually result in a quick response within a couple of days. Anything else gets put in the "difficult" pile, which can take weeks or months for a response.
Other airlines may differ, of course.
Thanks and congrats... I was impressed with Jet2 when I flew them recently so its great to hear they did the decent thing when pressed too....
Another excellent video, Matt and one that I actually found really helpful. Having been through an EU/UK261 a couple of times with BA in recent years, I would agree that people need to be better informed about their rights with this - and should always persevere. Iberia's actions here are simply despicable, and wholly dishonest in their initial attempt to deny the claim. Pretty poor show from them.
Cheers mate. Not my favourite video to make but hopefully useful to the community!
Thx for trying to shed some light on EU 261 Mat . I work on transport issues at the EU and am still confused by 261s complexities. Its often hit and miss..depends on the airline and the individual case. Good luck with your Iberia claim.
Thanks so much. I hope to raise awareness of what is possible even if there's more to it than I've been able to show here!
Despite 261 having been around for a long time..the publics awareness of it and actual uptake of it is disappointing..much to the airlines pleasure...
Excellent video Matt! Slightly seething at all the missed compensation claims I now realise I have amassed over the years; but c’est la vie!
You can go back 6 years I believe - it varies by country but you can certainly claim retrospectively... What else did you have on this weekend???
I like this, good tips 🙂
This reminds me about a travel hack that i have named a "Chess booking", a Chess booking is a booking with multiple legs three or more with tight connections at the airports. It is placed such time of the day that it is structurally impossible to get you to the destination within the limit of EU/261 limit regardless of how they try.
This means that if one of the two or more first flights is about 40 minutes later they will be trapped in an impossible dilemma turning that delay into a whole night at a hotel and a landing the day after. Giving a free night with food and beverages and a compensation.
If the first flight is delayed at your home then you can send a cancel refund and collect your competition additionaly.
This hack works of you fly out from a little small port like Kristiansand Norway, flying via Oslo, Stockholm to Copenhagen and then on to Gdansk. There are bookings where it is almost 80 percent propability that the airline will F it up, and if you end with a long haul flight with a similar trap in ether end, then the chances are quite good 😎
Thanks so much for that... Very interesting... I had a look and you can indeed book KRS-OSL-ARN-CPH-GDN one way for £114 - quite tight connections too... Hard to make a living out of doing that but if you fancy a night in a hotel somewhere random in Scandanavia!
Great video Matt. I would be interested in you covering Montreal Convention, 1999 a legislation that has been on the books for some time now, and covers virtually every country in the world when it comes to international travel. For instance, it provides for compensation of up to $7000 USD for out of pocket expenses incurred due to delays such as lost work, hotels, etc. Most people think of luggage when they think of Montreal Convention (if they do) but this is another key piece of the treaty. I will also point out that here in Australia, I am certainly guilty of being happy when airlines cancel my flights last minute. JetStar cancelled my Hobart to Sydney return flight and as a result, I was able to book the Movenpick hotel in Hobart (which included a-la carte breakfast at the hotel) plus meals with JetStar reimbursing me for the lot. I extended my vacation for a day on their dime and loved it!
Interesting suggestion... It might be a while before I'm ready to take on another legal video like this one, but Montreal sounds interesting and relevant...
Excellent video. BA did exactly the same to three out of four of my claims, lied each time but just before taking them to CEDR and the court the paid up. On one message from Ba they stated they only paid up because I was 'determined'! Sad state of affairs.
Thanks Colin - good persistence! Very peculiar that determination is a criteria in assessing a claim... Don't remember seeing that in the legislation!
Glad for this video. The questions I still have are when are strikes a legitimate exemption for the airlines and when are they not?
Thanks John - I believe airport or ATC strikes are accepted by the courts as being out of the airlines control so are a valid excuse for not paying compo. I don't know if that applies If the airline's own staff are on strike as that feels like something within the airline's control
Deny and then pay if you complain, sounds like the most common insurance model.
Indeed - don't take no as an answer
Great video Matt - but has highlighted that 12 months ago BA screwed me when they cancelled our flight from BHX to Belfast whilst we were sat in the departure lounge.
We were booked onto a flight the following day which we refused as it was only a short break and flying the next day just wasn’t worth it. The reason they cancelled the flight we later discovered was that the inbound flight to BHX which should have took us to Belfast suffered a bird-strike earlier in the day. I did challenge this but it went nowhere so we got our flight costs refunded but no compensation
It's actually an interesting situation I've seen a few times now in the comments - if you take the cancellation then the compo is not available as you didn't get there late even if the plane did... It does feel like an unsatisfactory position to be in
My sis was stranded at AMS 1,5 weeks ago. The already 2 hours delayed Easyjet flight got cancelled. We kept in contact throughout the evening and when the cancellation was announced, I was happy to calm her down briefly explaining EU261. - Long story short, she went to the counter asap and after talking to an Easyjet representative she used her app to manage the booking. - She accepted a re-route via Manchester UK the next day and got booked in a decent hotel nearby Schiphol airport.
Because the next-day flight was around 15 hours later, she also applied for the €250.- compensation.
All in all another perfect example of EU261 in action, that is when airlines honestly apply it of course...
Cheers Matt!
Good for Easyjet and thanks for sharing... They don't always feature positively in reports but I suppose its always easier to complain than to compliment!
Matt really good and informative video, just to add my own experience to add weight to how petty airlines can get i was on a teir 1 flight delayed by 179 minutes as of the doors opening which was very dificult to determine as i found out by escalating my claim to CEDR this was as you may have realised on BA and whilst i understand that one minute is sufficent to dismiss my claim with BA direct i was really expecting CEDR to rule in my favour not the case..... so i hope that some who are reading these comments might not fall in to the trap i have....but yes i do still fly BA and can atest to the fact that there new claims procedure works better and when you get confirmation that they are at fault they pay reasonable straight away.....
1 minute is a very arbitrary margin! Good to hear BA is more streamlined... Still not had my Iberia cash but still within their timeline for it arriving....
Thanks Matt, I wish this video was out a year ago and I had watched it back then...
The statute of limitations in England and Wales is 6 years; in Scotland it's 5 years. So unless this involved you accepting an inferior re-routing option (in which case your recourse is limited), you can still submit and pursue a claim now.
As Nova says - it may not be too late!
Rainou Iunidou (Spanish for United Kingdom) Hahahaha This is certainly a very useful video sr. Thank you!
I found it eventually! And got my money!
Only had one experience with this and was with a delayed flight with BA from Heathrow to Las Vegas. I completed the form on BA website on my return, got a response within one week and the money in back soon after.
Fantastic to hear. It shouldn't be a performance and BA seems to be doing it well
@@MattsPlanet absolutely, it's a consumer right so should be straight forward. I can understand the business reasons of not promoting it, especially on long haul flights where the sums soon add up but when someone has a genuine claim it should be processed without friction.
Thanks so much for the video. As far as I can tell it seems like my situation may NOT be covered. My Norse flight from LAX to LGW scheduled this upcoming May was cancelled and rebooked but for entirely different days. They want me to depart one full day earlier and return one full day earlier. The problem is that I already have non refundable hotel stays and other flights. They want to fly me back to LA on the same day I’ll be landing in London from Greece. I don’t care about compensation I just want my original departure and return dates
With that much advance notice you'll have no luck with compensation. I have asked hotels nicely if they'll change the dates and have had success in the past... Airlines are tricker. May be a case for your travel insurance...
Great video. I was unfortunate to have a cancelled flight to dubai due to lack of crew and moved to a flight two days later when a further cancellation happened due to a mechanical failure. The next available flight was again pushed 2 days later to wednesday. We called up to try and get a flight out same day but with a competitor but they said there was no availability yet we were able to book ourselves. Needless to say we ended up paying 3x the original price but i am trying to claim it back. One thing to note is that although the delay was on one flight booking, since the two cancellations were separate flights, we were able to 2x the compensation.
It sounds like you're on strong ground to claim the cost from them - and the multiple claims makes sense too... Keep fighting!
A great video providing a clear overview of the Regulation!
There are just a few minor details I'd correct - firstly, the right to care and re-routing apply regardless of the reason for a cancellation/delay, or the amount of notice given.
In combination with the Montreal Convention, this means that if your flight is rescheduled to arrive a lot later or leave a lot earlier, even if this happens months in advance, you're likely to be entitled to claim back the reasonable cost of any additional hotel that you thereby have to book.
Secondly, the right to care and re-routing apply based on the reasonably anticipated delay in departure (see the first sentence of Article 6). The actual delay, or the delay in arrival, doesn't matter.
Finally, it's worth pointing out that the "exceptional circumstances" defence to paying compensation is subject to a second test - namely, that the delay could not have been reduced or avoided even if "all reasonable measures" had been applied.
This "all reasonable measures" test means that even if the initial reason for a delay is outside an airline's control (such as the aircraft being delayed earlier in the day by bad weather), failing to mitigate this (e.g. by having spare aircraft at their base airports) can make them liable for compensation.
Following a CJEU decision (LE v TAP, much quoted on Flyertalk), this also extends to where a delay is exacerbated because the airline refuses to consider other airlines' flights when rebooking (re-routing) you. So at least in some cases, there is recompense if an airline refuses to rebook you at the earliest opportunity.
That's fantastic - thanks for the extra insight. Tricky to cover everything and end up with a video anyone will watch!
@@MattsPlanet quite - and I think you were right to leave it at 30 minutes! Perhaps an EU261 series or a follow-up video then? I guess it's a very dull subject though, so probably doesn't help with your "last 10 videos" metrics 😕
@@Nova-gk1wl Early days but its number 5 of my last 10 so far!!! I have in the past pitched these sorts of videos too high and people who really would benefit from the content have given up quite early... So I've tried to pitch this as accessible even if you have no prior knowledge... Time will tell whether I succeeded!
Nice video on a boring subject. Do you think air traffic control issues count under the external factors get out. Thanks very much
We were delayed as a result of a bird strike and although initially refused compensation I took it through arbitration and was awarded the compensation. This was because the bird strike was on the plane’s arrival the evening before and they chose not to start any maintenance/inspections of the plane until the morning (and the airport was a maintenance base). I argued that it was their maintenance approach that was the cause of the delay and not the bird strike (helped that I had a friend who flew the same type of plane and confirmed that given the damage there was no way that the pilots didn’t know there was a problem!) it was for a group of 5 so well worth the extra work to track down the actual facts and make a stronger case
Well done Steve - would have been easy to give up when the first rejection came. And this is a good example of where the rules are often interpreted in the customer's favour!
Good video very helpful. Do you think air traffic control issues would count as an external issue? Thanks very much.
Air traffic strikes have been ruled as exceptional issues so are a valid "excuse". The tricky bit comes if there's a strike in France and the airline tries to use that as an explanation of why a London to Dublin flight was delayed - there may have been a knock-on effect but was it a direct contributor to that specific delay? I don't know the answer to this one....
BA cancelled my flight to Austin less than 24 hours before departure leaving me stranded at my home airport. Our claim for compensation was rejected due to an ice storm limiting landings.
One of those situations where there'd probably no precedent set - sounds fairly exceptional to me though - particularly in Austin!
I've had BA refuse to pay due to a storm, the day before from Heathrow. Now that sounds like they were "at it".
I think you can safely assume that any airlines first response is unlikely to have much thought behind it, and it will be provided by someone without the first idea of what the rules actually are....
I was flying from LHR to BKK on Finnair via Helsinki. The flight from HEL to BKK developed a fault and was delayed until the following morning at 7am. I was accommodated in the Hilton overnight and given details of how to make a claim. When the claim was submitted, it was accepted and the compensation was paid with a week. Highly recommended Finnair.
Thanks - had a few very positive comments about Finnair and I'll add this to the list! It really is expensive for an airline when this happens!
I've just done one of my videos (totally unrelated subject) and realised that subconsciously I've concluded my intro saying if you'd like to find out more then stick around. Do I owe you royalties?! :) ps enjoyed this video even tho I haven't had need of the info yet.
Hard to trademark the use of a word! I'm flattered though...
I had the return journey from Winnipeg to London via Toronto cancelled in 2017, for reasons that Westjet could never really explain, only found out about the cancellation when got to the airport - booked me on a flight for the next day and was given food vouchers. I made a claim and I was offered around £250, a long Skype call to Westjet's Canadian HQ followed and the compensation rose to over a £1000 - the Westjet staff knew I had done my research by the end of the call. Since I was travelling to Canada regularly at the time I took advantage of the airline's option of taking compensation in flights, at the time that meant the compensation was either tripled or quadrupled, long story short I ended up with over £4000 in flights.
Good work! Particularly as I don't think a Westjet flight to the UK would be covered by the regs!!!
Great video Matt. It may help to know that I claimed successfully from Qatar Airlines after my LHR-DOH leg arrived late and I was denied boarding the second leg to KUL. I was rebooked on Malaysian but arrived 12 hours late. Qatar initially were resistant but a second email did the trick.
Thanks - I suspect that some non-EU airlines wouldn't always realise that the continuation flight was also covered... Good that it got resolved with only an email!
Great video about an admittedly dull, but highly important topic! Only had one real experience with EU261 so far and that was handled speedy and without detours by LH. Something else related to this that would very much interest me is to what extend airlines can be held accountable (under EU261 or equivalent rules) for causing unplanned additional costs and discomfort due to delays. For example, if your flight is delayed, and you therefore miss your last train of the day to your final destination, forcing you to find another mean of transport or even a hotel. Even if an arrival time is within the EU261-allowed time margin, an 1.5 hr delay late at night can literally get you stranded if you live a train ride away from the airport, but there aren't any trains anymore... you know of any duty of care for cases like that? Although I guess that's just our bad luck then.
Its a very good question actually - I've heard it said that as long as the airline gets you to the airport you booked their job is done even if it takes very little for a delay to cause extra expense... If would be a relatively open ended commitment for an airline to take responsibility for any consequential costs...
I claimed under UK261 for a delay on a BA ticket of over 4 hours YVR-LHR-GLA in May. To their credit BA paid up £520 within 2 weeks.
I put in another claim for a 12.5 hour delay CLT-LHR-GLA in June on a BA/AA codeshare where BA was ticketing carrier but AA the operating carrier. I didn’t know that my claim won’t apply because it was on an AA flight til I watched this (they’ve sat on my claim with no response for over a month). So, I’ll have to look for alternate avenues to get my money because this delay was very much AA’s fault.
Thanks Derek - indeed an AA operated flight to the UK won't qualify... No equivalent scheme in the US although I do remember hearing that Biden was looking at something along those lines...
Must confess, I had a 3.5h delay to and from LGW-JFK with BA, filled out 2x forms on my return and got the 2x260 within a few days, with no contest. Credit where it is (literally!) due
Thanks Jeb. I've probably had more reports of successful and speedy payments than I have of lies and deceit, which can only be a good thing!
Hello Matt (Ttam) Ok so I stumbled upon your channel while searching "Club Europe to Malaga" and now I'm completely immersed down the Rabbit Hole ! I find the content utterly fascinating although utterly inapplicable to my dismal and unexciting life, Great watching though, and I love tinkering around with that Matrix thing.
So in October 2024 I am hoping to use my accumulated shopping total of Avios (24,000 +£130ish) to help pay for a Club Europe return to Malaga as a present to myself for still being alive despite six years of Chemo, Is this a groovy thing to do or as is usual with me, am I utterly deluded ?
Keep it up Sir, love the trip reports best.
Thanks Paul! Sounds a pretty groovy way to spend your avios to me! I'd look out for an evening departure outbound then get to the airport 8 hours early to enjoy the lounge experience that comes with a club ticket!!! Assuming you can have a drink after 6 years of chemo? Sounds tough but planning exactly this sort of treat must keep you focussed??? And perhaps take a look at Seville if you've never been - rubbish beaches but it has a lot else going for it!
Thanks Matt. I’ve had a few of these over the past year (I fly pretty much every week). The tips on diverted flights and previous flights delayed by weather are very helpful!
Airlines often claim weather as a reason not to pay out. What’s the view on this? I think the point about reasonable weather expectations (I.e. in winter you will get wintry conditions in a wintry location) is useful.
Under EU261 the airline has to show that two tests are met.
The first is that the cause of the delay/cancellation was not "inherent" in the operation of an airline.
The second is that the delay/cancellation could not have been avoided, or the resultant delay mitigated, even if "all reasonable measures" had been applied.
Bad weather will often be a "get out of jail" excuse for airlines, but it wouldn't be for things like:
* Waiting for deicing at an airport where icing conditions can reasonably be expected at that time of day, at that time of year.
* Inspecting an aircraft after a lightning strike.
Where airports/ATC mandate that airlines reduce their "flow rates" (i.e. cancel some flights) due to bad weather requiring increased separation, it's unlikely that compensation is payable. But the all reasonable measures test might still save you.
Nova has answered more thoroughly than I could!!! It seems clear that weather will only be a valid excuse exceptionally....
@@Nova-gk1wl thanks! Yes, I agree. I had one where they claimed they had the wrong de-icer at the airport. Considering this is one of their regional hubs, in a renowned cold part of the country, and I was one of their mainstream aircraft, it didn’t really stack up.
A quick search of flights on Flight Radar 24 showed flights were operating normally quickly showed the futility of this line of reasoning to the airline.
I sometimes feel sorry for the airline as a few delayed or cancelled flights can end up being very expensive. I wonder how much they insure against these scenarios
If you don't think you videos matter, I submitted my request to BA solely based on your information found on this video - didn't even know this could be done, but I rarely fly internationally (2.4 M on Delta almost all has been domestic). BA flight cancelled, rebooked on a flight that got us to Glasgow 8 hours later. I did say I have submitted - haven't heard back on the request, but it has only been two weeks. Keep up the good work - thanks!
Thanks - I recall this trip was a bit of a saga? A few quid back would make it all feel a lot better!!
@@MattsPlanet It was a bit of a saga. Having a flight canceled isn't why we requested compensation - it was the fact that BA provided zero communication on the issue, not via the app, e-mail, phone call, text - nothing - notta. I was happy that we had purchased lounge access by having a Euro-Business class seat - it made it bearable. I wouldn't have known about any sort of compensation possibility had it not been for this video - so thanks again. Safe Travels!
@@MattsPlanet Did you get a response on your EU261 request? It has been two months for me now and haven't heard a peep from British Airways. Is there a next step?
Received a response on November 14, 2023, about 3 months after the first enquiry. Will receive 220 pounds per person, or 440 total (about $540). According to BA, some error in the system prevented any notifications from being sent out, BA was appropriately apologetic, and the compensation will be nice. Sooooo glad I knew about the potential for compensation and sooooo glad I booked EuroBusiness so we could spend 9 glorious hours in the lounge - much better than just sitting at the gate. It made for a long day, however.
Great video as always Matt.
I had a claim denied from BA for a 4+ hour delayed flight from LHR-IAD. Their justification was that the plane suffered a bird strike during its inbound flight which meant it needed to be checked and therefore caused a delay to my flight. Based off of your comments I wonder if this is worth pursuing further..?
I think it is - extraordinary events affecting an earlier flight on the same equipment shouldn't carry over onto subsequent flights so in theory you should have a good case. But when the later flight is from an outstation, and a lesser serviced outstation, it would seem a little tough on BA - you don't catch me saying that often! I wouldn't be shocked if they resist firmly as it would be difficult for them to have had any contingency measures in place...
Just to update you on this Matt. I re-surfaced my claim with BA where they gave me a deadlock response that they will not budge. Went to CEDR and after a delay caused by a backlog they agreed to take on the claim. BA updated the case within a couple of days of CEDR contacting them and agreed (without acceptance of liability) to pay the full £520. Another 2 days later the money was in my account!
Before watching your video I had given up..even Bott & Co didn’t want to take on the case! So a big thank you for your advice to pursue.
Great Video Matt ... So could I clarify a couple of things ...
Firstly lets say I take a Thai Airways flight from London to BKK .... is the outward leg covered by EU261 but the return not covered?
Secondly Lets say I'm taking a flight from JFK to Doha that passes through the LHR on same ticket does EU 261 apply at all when the start and the end point aren't in Europe?
Firstly - spot on. Secondly - excellent question! If the inbound to London was on an EU airline both flights would be covered anyway.... If not, I'd guess only the LHR-DOH leg would be covered. The example in the video is LHR - say JFK - say MCO, then JFK-MCO is covered as its on the same booking which originated in the EU. You're example wouldn't originate there if it wasn't an EU airline.
@@MattsPlanet Thanks Matt ... makes it clear and something I'll definitely bare in mind when choosing starting point and airline moving forward.
Maybe one important addition: the EU 261 claim is a compensation to the passenger traveling, not to the person who booked / paid the ticket. Some airlines insist paying the compensation to the company on a business trip - which is illegal, but likely lowers the motivation of the passenger to claim the money.
Interesting point - thanks
Sat in Corfu airport, expected delay back to UK greater than 3 hours. Already been text by Jet 2 with the EU261 at the bottom of the text for compensation, and were handed €8 euro voucher upon check in at airport.
Jet2 are a very good airline in my experience....
They have paid out £350 to my bank account within 6 days of the claim been submitted. Very impressed and make you want to book with Jet 2 again. Got to flight on one of their brand new A321 neo planes.
@@adamingleton8529 Fantastic! Pretty much everything I read about Jet2 these days is positive!
That day has come!
PS. It it worth directing people to the flyer talk forums for help with claims?
I'm sorry Ian - I'll take the view but its bittersweet that these views come when something goes wrong for people!
Excellent video. Just to clarify if I booked a BA coded flight to NY and the return flight was operated on BA’s behalf by AA then I’m not covered by 261.
Ergo the be fully covered I for cancellation and delay I shouldn’t fly return flights code shared by a non EU airline 🤔
The operating airline determines eligibility. So a BA plane under an AA flight number counts.
The position for these kinds of flights always used to be that if the operating carrier was non-EU/UK, you'd not be entitled to anything. But following the legal precedent in Q v United, things have changed a little and I wouldn't rule it out entirely. It's probably still one you'd have to take to court.
What if the flight takes off 2 hours late, is there any duty of care because we were stuck on tarmac for 30mins before take off after 90mins delay in terminal
I think its a grey area if you're on the plane and then get delayed - they have to service you from what's on board which is obviously a different equation to being able to buy a sarnie from a shop...
Sorry Matt Just thought of a third and potentially very devisive point for clarification .... . Do you have to actually fly to be eligible for compensation? Sounds silly I know but what if I'm booked on a Ryanair flight STN to FRA and for whatever reason I choose not go ... stay home and put my feet up ... but later find out it was delayed. Would a claim actually work. (disclaimer I personally wouldn't claim because I don't think it would be ethical but ... just wondering)
Interesting hypothetical - I'm sure you'd be registered as a no-show well before the delay so wouldn't be able to claim. Well you would be able to claim, but I'm certain it would be denied!!!
BREAKING NEWS: British travellers to lose millions in flight compensation over Brexit rule change
Simon Calder Travel Correspondent
British airline passengers are set to lose millions of pounds in flight disruption compensation each year due to Brexit.
The long-standing right to cash compensation of over £500 no longer applies for travellers making journeys to the UK from non-EU countries on airlines such as Air France, KLM and Lufthansa.
While travellers on disrupted flights who are ending their trips in the EU are entitled to hotels and meals, UK-bound passengers no longer have an automatic right to recover expenses from a European Union carrier - and are also unable to claim €600 (£513) in cash compensation when the airline is responsible for the delay.
This is very interesting.... I would never question Mr Calder's reporting but there are already several countries covered by EU261 which aren't in the EU - Norway and Switzerland - and its not clear to me whether the UK has joined that group or has become a true third country.... And in one paragraph he says KLM rejected a UK to Europe to Canada claim, and in the next paragraph he says that flight would still be covered by UK regulations.... Further evidence that this is all far too complicated, as Simon himself says
From personal experience, the airlines will also lie about the reason for delay, when I was delayed for over 5 hours on a BA flight out of Heathrow, they claimed the delay was caused because of weather which was outside their control… when I replied “this is not true, my flight was the only one delayed from taking off on time, all other flights departed on time, and upon boarding the pilot apologised for the delay due to scheduled service of plane overrunning “
Thankfully after this I received my payment.
Thanks - it is pretty shameful that there's no repercussions for airlines doing this....
I did a few claims on Lufthansa last year. First sending a mail and giving them two weeks to approve in cc/ my lawyer. After that he takes over. I highly recommend to do this under German law. It's pretty cheap to go to court. But the airline always paid after the lawyer was involved and asked them to pay until a specified date. Only one time I was going to court and won also. And the airline had also to pay all the costs. When is it possible for you to claim in Germany? The routing has to touch a German city or the booking has been made in Germany. So if you fly MAD-FRA(IB)-LHR(BA)-LAX for example you're in.
Thanks - I'll remember that. Never got to the stage of suing anyone although "my mate Steve" (who crops up on the channel occasionally) has taken suing airlines up as a hobby!
Very informative video but I’m still unsure about cancellations. BA cancelled our flights to the USA (Newark) and back with less than 2 weeks notice. I rebooked flights to Philadelphia with them (the outward being indirect via Boston and 3 hours earlier). They said I was to get a £338 refund for 2 of us. Am I entitled to further compensation?
Its really difficult to give definitive advice without knowing all the details but it sounds like this rebooking should qualify - a rerouting and a much earlier departure. Keep pursuing them! It sounds like the refund came from a fare difference rather than from compensation?
@@MattsPlanet thanks. I’ll pursue it. I’ve really taken to your channel. I can’t get enough of the tips and hacks and love your journeys.
So Jersey via LHR to Naples(on one ticket )would qualify for 261 only on the LHR to Naples leg?
That would be on BA so it all would be covered as BA is flying that first leg into the UK/EU
Regarding enforcement actions; the aim of allowing compensation in the legislation is to incentivise customers/passengers to enforce the action themselves. You are correct though that many people are unaware of the law or can be easily fobbed off. One day when I retire, I would love to set up a booth outside every major UK airport to purposely seek out those who have arrived on delayed flights. If you can source tens or even hundreds of claims from a single flight, it both makes your process easier and means you can reduce your margins too. Capitalism in action!
I suspect the airports wouldn't take too kindly to that sort of thing... on the other hand, if you rented a unit from them in plain view of the arrivals flow, and gave them a cut of your profits, they would probably be more than happy to "bite the hand that feeds"!
I can picture it now.... The problem may be that if everyone claimed everything, airlines would go bust and fares would rocket up!
You're typing yourself into a full time job answering comments - thanks!!!
Just in case, I would really appreciate any help on this one. I booked a flight from Stockholm to Sofia via Belgrade with Air Serbia. I arrived in Sofia a day later than originally booked! I requested compensation from Air Serbia which has been completely ignored - at least for 60 days! I bought the tickets when I was in the UK. Who on earth do I approach to continue with my claim?
Its certainly Air Serbia - assuming the reason for the delay qualifies for EU261 this was a journey departing the EU so you just need to pursue them... And challenging as it is, if they don't respond you need to pursue them through whatever arbitration service Air Serbia is signed up for...
A few years ago, my wife and I were denied boarding to an Iberia flight to Buenos Aires, due to overbooking, and Iberia immediately provided a hotel, transportation, and meals, and booked us in a flight the next morning. They also immediately paid us €600 each as compensation (we both got crispy new €500 bills for this!) So, well done… but I do not know how they are reacting now.
Now, a tricky question: I have tickets booked on a major American airline for Buenos Aires this month. This is covered by EU261, as the flight departs from London. However, I'll be doing a two-day layover in Cincinnati (including a domestic leg in the US) before flying to Buenos Aires from Atlanta. This latter flight is often delayed (up to 10 hours!) Would the EU261 compensation apply to delays or cancellations on this third leg, considering that is included in the same ticket and itinerary number?
Thanks - its hard to give specific advice but I fear that adding a stopover would break the EU261 delay chain (so to speak...) Otherwise any return to the UK on a US carrier would be covered as the return flight would be on the same ticket with the same itinerary number.
The brits aren't in the EU anyone and will very shortly not qualify for EU261/2004 Compensation😅. Check the new updated policy.
Anyone of any nationality can claim under EU261 so leaving the EU makes no difference to being able to claim if a qualifying flight is delayed. And the EU law has been copied into UK law and is virtually identical. That may now be changed in the future but I think your statement isn't accurate
Does anyone know what my rights are if an airline cancels my flight from LCY less than 7d prior departure, and rebooks me on a flight from LGW or LHR around the same time, to the same destination. Any compensation due? Thanks
I didn't see that specific situation discussed in my research. Usually, BA will pay for the cost of getting between airports but it's probably reasonable for them to say that "London is London". It should count as a rerouting though
This is a tricky one. LCY, LGW and LHR all serve London, so as a minimum Article 8(3) of EU261 entitles you to reimbursement of your (additional) expenses in getting to LGW/LHR vs LCY.
In terms of compensation it's more complex. There's legal precedent (WZ v Austrian) which dictates that if you're diverted to another nearby airport it's the arrival time at your booked destination, after ground transport, that counts - and if this is 3+ hours late, the usual compensation rules apply.
AFAIK there isn't any precedent for the opposite situation (leaving from a different airport), though it's difficult to see how a completely different outcome could be reached. But you might have to take it to court.
Thank you, both. Seems like I‘ll just have to accept my faith. And thanks for the ever interesting content, Matt. Keep it up!
Air canada did not answer. Tk said OK directly.
Keep fighting!