Control Mages: The AP Hypercarries | League of Legends
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- čas přidán 20. 08. 2024
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Marksmen/AD Carries are regarded as hypercarries on the basis of how much physical damage they can output, but what about magic damage? Which champions are AP equivalent of a hypercarry? Today we're gonna discuss Control Mages (A.K.A. Battle Mages) and how they represent the magic side of things!
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make a video about "why are mages so privileged?", because they have range, cc burst damage and sutstain damage
There is 1 other type of control mages... disrupters... they replace some of their burst and dps damage for AOE damage "area disruption not area control"
@@ultimocontrole9980 they have range , some cc sometimes , burst, but no hp sustain and are slow
Not as tanky as AP bruiser, but also does not have the range of normal mages. These aren't even a hybrid of normal archetypes; they are the hybrid of hybrids archetypes themselves.
But still broken af xd
@@imbroke8158 they arent
edit: except for heimerdinger, he is a stupid design, but woulnd say hes broken
@@zsomborszigeti6797 His design is for people like him to play. :3 I am a proud donger main.
@@minhnguyenphanhoang4193 self burn is quite rare in the current meta, but I respect it.
@@zsomborszigeti6797 if you get past early game even he's useless
And with Rod of Ages returning and Seraph's reverting to how it was before, these guys are going to be even stronger than they already are now. Seriously, the combo of those two already used to be really powerful, now they are even stronger.
I prefer they revert hp and sustain dmg o this champs and let dmg
The new rod of ages isn't the same as before it felt so underwhelming
Seraph’s is a really bad item and only Kassadin and Ryze can use the item fully. The rest of champs dislike the item but need the mana. RoA is just a bad item.
@@joel7342eh seraphs is strong for the mana shield on basically any mage besides swain or leblanc.
Hey Vars! Long time viewer, I love your video documentary type style. I wanted to say I really enjoyed the editing on this video. A critique I have for the editing of your other videos is it looks more like a montage rather than a information/documentary video. I enjoy personally the clean edits with no lighting effects or flashy edits. The text in this video was easy to read. The gameplay was visually appealing as it didn't have the green/orange smoke that your other videos sometimes have. This video was refreshing from your other recent videos and I hope you edit more videos similar to this one.
Taliyah and Swain have been my mains since I started back in 2018. Love them and their kits. This year has been great especially because of those midscopes.
Battle Mages are my favorite class. I always feel useful.
Me too. I main Viktor and malzahar
Has somebody who's pretty old school I remember battle ship avivia. Anivias abilities are much more important for their utility rather than their raw damage output that combined with the fact that her e which is her main damaging tool has a really good ratio and guarantees crit means that you basically just have to build one damage item and can build full tank after that and still do okay. Add that to the fact that her egg inherits anivia's health bar. Makes it so that a slowly approaching tank anivia is kind of terrifying.
This sounds fun, I may or may not try this
The old ROA + FH anivia, you deal damage and unkillable. Very nice sp path
@@khuongang1609 roa is coming back. Archangels frozen heart demonic embrace should be a beefy bird.
Probably my favorite type of characters overall. I’m not the best at jumpy bursty characters but I excel at control mages like this that thrive on positioning and whittling people down. I like being that kind of anchor in a fight
Seraphine has turned into a control mage especially w/ the rylai's build
What class did Vars put her in originally?
@@peytonashby6789 burst mage
Absolutely. I believe that riot should adjust her to be a good midlaner and support at the same time without being broken as an apc. Maybe some kind of playstyle optional evolution could be a solution.
@@luccamaino4118in order to get her better on mid and nerf her as an apc they need to change her passive
@@ogog9816 but she also get nerfed as a support
I love my control mages, Taliyah, Swain, Viktor and Rumble will always have a special place in my hearth, I wonder how much it will take to people to realize that this class has been sleeperly OP since the durability update patch, and yeah, they may fall appart in the lights of 200 years champions, but there is no denying that there is no other class in the game that could make their job better than they do.
You have written the name of 3 battlemages (Taliyah, Swain, Viktor) and one AP bruiser (Rumble). They're not control mages.
Vars is wrong in his confusion of the two classes but basically : control mages = "here's my space, enter if you want to eat my cc and dps" (Asol, Anivia). While battlemages have less dps and cc and much more burst (Viktor, Taliyah, and Ryze, who's a very bad one). Fundamental diffference : you can't one tap the ennemy with a control mage while you can with a battlemage.
But yeah, control mages (the true control mages) are OP since 12.10.
@@EruCoolGuy every time I fight anivia I forget how much damage she does
Rumble?
@@EruCoolGuy This is why I requested this video. No one agrees on what the heck a control mage is. Some people say Twisted Fate some people say Zoe some say Syndra, most people at least agree on Anivia. I guess it's because to some extent all Mages have AOE and cc, that's kinda the point of the class. Once they have a bit of cdr a lot of them have really nice sustained damage even the burst mages. And even if the don't, Liandrys gives damage over time, everfrost gives an aoe cc, and ludens proc is aoe.
@@EruCoolGuy As already said just before, there isn't really a consensus on what is or isn't a control mage. The 3 "official" mage subclasses are burst/battlemage/artillery.
Burst being the "one tap people" type of mages ( Annie, Vex, Syndra, Orianna, Lux, Veigar etc )
Battlemage being the low-ish range sustained damage type of mages ( Swain, Ryze, Anivia, Karthus etc )
Artillery being the long range poke mages ( Xerath, Ziggs, Vel'Koz )
But things always end up quite murky between the subclasses because you have champions like Lux and Xerath who could be argued as being both burst and artillery ; Viktor and Anivia are supposed to be battlemages, but in their current state, they behave more like burst mages ; Orianna and Syndra are burst mages at core, but have low CD Q spells that allow them to behave like budget battlemages in a pinch, and the list goes on.
And out of those 3 subclasses, people tend to pick those whose kit revolve around controlling space and lump them together as "control mages" except, by virtue of being mages (and thus often having AoE spells), a lot of champions with very different overall playstyles and strength curves could be argued as "control mages".
- Anivia is the most agreed upon control mage, and she's a mid game powerhouse, but is vulnerable both early (pre-6) and late game.
- Orianna and Azir on the other hand are decent lane bullies, but are ultimately late game scalers.
- Viktor and (reworked) Syndra are also late game scalers, but unlike Ori and Azir, they're about all-out bursting moreso than utility and zone control.
So you get the gist. "Control mages" are hadly a uniform class.
Battlemage=control mage feels so wrong, Vladimir is a battle mage but not a control mage, Orianna is a control mage but not a battle mage
Ah the control/battle mages. My kind of people. I think they are slept on because they are weaker early and aren’t flashy. But it’s my favorite class and I’ve had a lot of success with Swain even pre midscope
I hecking LOVE these discussion videos. Good work on this one.
There's a reason why I main Oriana. She has the area coverage and the scaling of your typical control make, but without having to put herself into danger.
I don't think battlemages and control mages are the same. IMO control mages are CC focused mages as opposed to mobility focused mages like Kassadin and Azir. Literally crowd control mages.
Whenever I think of control I think of Viktor, Malzahar, Seraphine, Azir, Kennen, Orianna, Morgana, Lux, Lissandra, Taliyah, Zyra, Anivia, Swain and Veigar. Basically Terrain/Atmosphere manipulators, champions that can create walls or area of effects. Then there's battle mages, Ryze, Cassiopeia and Kayle who spam their attacks constantly. Then we have burst mages who are the look to eliminate someone in one rotation, Leblanc, Zoe, Annie, Vladmir, Vex, Syndra, Karthus, Brand and Ahri. We finally have burst artillery which are essentially Velkoz, Xerath, Rumble, Jayce, Gangplank and Ziggs who blast you from half way across the map (or all the way across the map). Some mages overlap, Cassiopeia has control with W and R, Ziggs has control with W and E. Basically all mages have some form of control, with only difference being how long effects last.
I agree with your definition 100%. Battle mages are not necessarily the same as control mages. Also, I don't consider Kayle a mage. She is more of a hybrid between a marksman and enchanter, especially once she hits level 6. She legit is an auto attacker. It's not like Azir, who is a mage and marksman hybrid, who requires casting his ability to activate his soldiers for his damage.
You can put lux with burst more
@@lissandrafreljord7913 They are called "Specialists". Typically specialists are zoners or they utilize external sources outside of their champion like azirs soldiers or heimerdinger's turrets. They can also be shapeshifters like kayn, elise, nidalee, and even jayce.
@@citizencj3389 Specialist is just a term used for those champs who don't fully fit the criteria of an individual role. They tend to dabble between several play styles that revolve around multiple roles, or are just designed very uniquely. Kayle, for instance, is basically a marksman/enchanter. Azir is a mage/marksman. Heimerdinger is really a siege mage, whose play style revolves around setting up a field of his mini turrets, much like how Zyra creates a field of plants. Nidalee is an assassin/artillery mage, with some enchanting qualities from her heal. Elise is a diver/mage. Blue Kayn is an assassin. Rhaast (red Kayn) is a skirmisher. Cho'Gath is a tank/juggernaut. Gangplank is an AD control mage.
What always puzzled me is how is orianna not considered a control mage? I think she's just what the term describes. Great cc, zone control with the ball and a bit of utility with potential for massive dmg. I guess the term battle mage is just not right for her tho.
The general defintion of champions is always a bit wonky. Ori and Azir are for example champions that could very well be described as control mages, while the defintion of burst mages is weird, since nearly every ap champion at full build kinda becomes a burst mage. And than there are ever changing identities, like Gragas, who is still considered a vanguard even though most build him as a busrt mage. (Not to mention Ekko or Diana, who for some reason are assassins rather than burst mages)
What? Oriana is absolutely a control mage, she's just not a battlemage
@@Istalrison From my understanding Burst Mages have good range but low durability and mobility.
Diana and Ekko have good mobility and Dia isn't exactly fragile with that big shilde of her's.
@@nicolaezenoaga9756 Sylas is classified as a burst mage, so this theory does not hold up
@@Istalrison A better version of burst mage you can say. Trade just a bit of fire range to have an insane mobility and reach range.
That delightful feeling when entering the Demonic Ascension as Swain in a big teamfight is indisputably the greatest thing to ever witness. The amount of power and control you hold over an entire battlefield at once is something not achievable by all the other classes... and in my humble opinion also much more entertaining than some mechanically challenging assassin.
As for playing control mages, it demands you to be observant. Always observe and spot out all the possibilities, make the right decision, for your ability usage will often be highly versatile and impactful, a fragile edge between single handedly winning or losing a fight. In terms of teamfight control, they certainly are the unreachable peak.
I would easily devote my entire champion pool to that sub class any time if had to decide: Swain, Taliyah, Ryze, Anivia etc.
I love how Seraphine applies to almost all of the types. Battle mage, artillery mage, control mage, burst mage, she's the whole package! (And yes, I'm using the hell out of her as an adc to climb)
And, also, somehow my last 5 games have finished in like 15-20 minutes, don't know if that's something to do with me or not, though
You gotta have some dignity my friend
She definitely is not a battle mage, nor control mage. Lol. By that definition, you can say the same thing about Lux. Her E is an AOE spell that lingers throughout an area in the battleground, preventing enemies from easily walking towards you. She has her roots to follow up with any engages. And she has the range of an artillery mage, the fast burst combo of a burst mage, and the utility of an enchanter with her shields.
Control mages are not the same as battle mages. Lux and Veigar are control mages but definitely not battle mages
Good thing that's not what was said
@@mikhailthegreatestdragon3627 it was said they are the same, in the first 1 min
Orianna is a control mage
As an anivia main, id say... Yeah, we dont have burst at all, come as close as you want. You'll love it
When late game you shove a 1.5k damage frostbite up their ass and it is on a 2 sec cd. The feeling of deleting the Vayne trying to rush you down with just Q-E, blowing through her shield bow as well.
Wait what about Morgana? She can make mini zones of death, she can cc, and she can through her little zones heal herself and shield herself she can be built half tank like Morg is being slept on here and she can hit multiple enemies at once with her ult and she does a lot of damage over time with her ult and her little zones of death
She is definitely not a control mage. Her tormented soil does not pose a huge threat throughout most of the game, as she would need a crap ton of AP. Unlike Anivia's storm, Morgana's is not packed with a slow, nor does it have the same area coverage. Also, she is heavily reliant on her Q to maximize the damage of her pool. If she has no Dark Binding, you can simply just walk on and out of her Tormented Soil. Also, her Q is way too slow and single target of a spell to be considered a top tier zoning tool. And she requires getting in close range to activate her ultimate, not to mention, she requires time to proc the stun.
My mains are Ahri, Viktor and Syndra. The latter is more of a burst/artillery mage but still. Pretty big fan of this archetype.
The pressure a good Swain can assert in team fights is incredible
My favorite class:) Surprised TF isn't in the thumbnail.
TF is not a control mage though. He's a burst mage.
@@VarsVerum God dammit!
@@VarsVerum oh I guess I had a different idea of them. Interested to see your video!
@@VarsVerum what about ad tf?
Personally, I believe the thing that will enable control mages (at the expense of other mages) is the items rn, there used to be a time where we could consistently get 1k AP on anyone, not just veigar, but now, most AP items grant HP at the cost of AP. As a direct result, battle mages have a ton of HP/AP items for sustained fights, but burst and artillery magess scale attrociously off of items, as they don't provide enough AP anymore.
build shadowflame dcap and you'll burst people real good
@@notachannle well yea, but you dont have the same lategame scaling potential on say xerath or lux anymore, especially since they took so much AP out of horizon focus
La Era de los magos de Control empieza aparecer una realidad, no solo con todos los cambios recientes, sino además de el regreso de el el objeto definitivo de los magos de control, Vara de las Edades, las próximas versiones de LoL se ven prometedoras!
You made a mistake. Cass single target DPS with Twin Fangs actually outscale Marksman auto attacks. It has a total 70% AP ratio and like 200 base damages. A full build Cass will typically have 0.4 sec cd on Twin Fang and deal 900+ damages per cast. That is legit 900 damages 2.5 timesper seconds, with a Q that deals like 1k over 3 seconds. While some Marksman will crit higher than 900, they sure as shit do not have that kind of attack speed and those that do, hit 400 to 700 per auto. Cassiopeia simply has the higest single target dps out of any champions in the game, from lvl2 onward.
Some builds even allow you to take E's cooldown to 0.32 sec, while still hitting about 900 with it. While other will have like 0.45 sec cd on it, but they will slap for fucking 1k+. A few seasons ago, during what I consider Cassiopeia's peak my E would hit 1.2k per cast, on a 0.4 sec cd, and I had well over 1.4k AP, my Q would hit about 1.4k too. Late game Cass, at that point had soooo much damages, that it was actually burst, you could just Q+E once and the enemy ADC was dead, or if you wanted him to die before Q tick him out, you just did Q+E+E and you just had overkilled him by like 1.2k damages (essentially the equivalent of 2 autos). All of this is ignoring stacked up Conqueror and activated Cosmic Drive, both of which boost it further.
Today, mages are significantly weaker than they were. We have people say Seraph is overtuned now, but Seraph was stronger than it is now and so were most mage items, Rabadon would give 40% extra AP, CDR was stupid easy to cap, almost every single items gave more AP, etc.. Mages have been comparatively weak ever since mythic items came out. Fighter went bonkers, Marksman have had a few patches and mage just fucking decayed, being significantly weaker than they were before the update and never recovering. What you see now is just a glimpse of what mages used to be.
"socially acceptable hypercarries"
never change vars
I think it was wrong to group control mages and battlemages as the same category. Battlemages tend to be low (or lower) range, higher tankiness, and much higher consistent damage output than other burst or artillery mages, which drastically sets them apart. Control mages, on the other hand, aren't as much of a specific type, as there are MANY supports, artillery mages, and burst mages along with battlemages who fit the definition of control mages (as you showed in your video). Additionally, to make champions like Ryze or Victor fit into the Control Mage category, you must use the broad defenition of "champion who uses their abilities and the threat of their abilities to control space", at which point 80%+ of the roster could be considered a control mage.
the fact you titled it about control mages, then noted in video you're actually talking about battle mages kind of bugged me, but otherwise great points.
As a Vladimir/Cassiopeia/Swain player I 100% agree that battle mages are underrated as heck
Hi! Great video! Player of A. Sol for a while, tried Ryze, Anivia main, yadayada, in short I love me battle mages. So I think I can give an in-detail explanation as to why they aren't really popular
First obvious counter to battle mages: early game wins, if the team has any idea of how to finish a game fast and they also have a Lee Sin, prepare for a loss, as a battle mage you are relying on a long game.
The con of battle mages is basically that you can't carry alone, even if you think you do, a battlemage isn't a hypercarry in it's own right like a Master Yi or a Tryndamere or something like that, position is everything with a battle mage and in a cc heavy meta you will suffer the consequences of trying to 1v5 the enemy team because you think being fed means being broken.
That's not all, the real counter against a battle mage is honestly backdoors and ambushes, there is almost nothing you can do against this if your team doesn't help you are fried shrimp, as you explained, battle mages aren't meant to be fast and as such they are perfect for a quick Talon's meal.
They are also not meant to be played against a good fighter/jugger/skirmisher, if they have mobility and you don't have an answer to that, you are screwed.
TL;DR: battle mages are late-game champs, heavily reliant on their team, they are teamfight masters and that means they will suffer when the enemy team splits up, the low mobility means you are in great danger of being ambushed.
I think Battle Mages are sleeper op for sure the mid-late game on those monsters is insane, also with the durability update and a variety of starter items/runes its fairly easy to got to those crucial item spikes. I mostly play assassins/skirmishers but no matter how hard I snowball a game everytime the enemy team has a viktor/anivia/vlad etc. I always feel uncomfortable watching that timer count up.
I had a Swain mid game the other day where I went 22/1/22 and was literally impossible to kill mid to late game, my ult just mitigated any damage sent my way and I had something like 4000+ HP, it was insane and I love the battle mage archetype it's so fun to play.
Bro swain is fcking nuts, I’ve been using him a bit and now that I’ve got his E downpat I’ve been having a great time.
@@Salmon_Toastie Dude it's a game changer when you get good at his E. A tip if you don't know it already is you can stand and throw it out medium range so it has some room to travel back and move left or right in relation to the enemy so it will hit them on the way back with more almost guaranteed. His E is not fixed on its path back and will change its path back to you based on your location. You may already know that but if not then it's a huge tip cause it jukes enemies out a lot, especially the enemy mid laner :)
@@eternalblue4660 Yeah thats the bit i was struggling, i also watched some other dude on a guide and he said try and position the enemy near the walls so they dont have the option to dodge it. Because landing E is pretty important.
@@Salmon_Toastie Yeah that is a pretty good one as well, what I do sometimes is put the enemy mid laner in a lose lose situation by W'ing ahead of them when they are in a thin path or route, they either A) Keep going forward and take the W damage + slow or have to walk back to me for a short second. That small step back is all you need then to land E and game over for them.
Icickle forest of Pokémon mystery dungeon for background?! Very good choice!
Anivia's powerful zoning is what I love about her. Can't ask for a better control mage
It might be a bit of exaggeration but playing a control mage is the least polarizing experience in the game. When you are proficient at the champion, you can expect at least a decent kda and contribution in teamfights and defence if your team is pushing forward or clearing waves under tower. This is especially true with anivia, but even if you are 0 4 after lane you can group and take down a melee top laner with all your cc and damage, and crawl back from there.
I play mainly supports, tanks, control mages and Teemo.
I don't need to see big numbers to be happy about the game. I just want to help my team succeed.
Getting to make the opposing team suffer is a welcome bonus though. I don't mind losing a fair 5v5 game, but I'll be damn sure to make it a path of thorns for them too.
Why i love battle mages
There is nothing more terrifying to see an asol fly into a teamfight with a lane sized stun(its me im the asol)
How about a Sylas who just copied a super ult. Or Pyke. Or Viego. Or a fed Fiora.
My favorite class of champions I never get to play because I don't touch Mid. So my favorite class to roll in ARAM.
Ryze, rumble and vlad can be played top
"control mage in theory are socially acceptable hypercarries".
That cracked me up a bit too much
The best thing about control mages is that you can be the bedrock of you team after lv5. With 3 points into basically any area ability, unless you do really idiodic backs, roams, or bad sustain items, the enemy can never ever push your tower and you are super safe. Camps like Malz and Anivia become unpunishable, sitting under their own T1 tower for the entire earlygame until bot is done and roams mid. Having the mid T1 tower still up at 15+ minutes while the enemy tower is gone is basically a guaranteed win. It's hard to not die once in that spot, but if the mid T1 is up the enemy team have basically no way to out-rotate or pressure you and is forced to just ARAM it until it is gone and the map opens up. And if they decide to aram the tower... well... you are a control mage.
It's interesting how Control Mages are the primary pick for pro-players. Viktor, Azir, Sylas are highly contested picks in Worlds 2022, Swain showed up several times, and Ryze has been picked a lot in past seasons, even with his awful winrate in SoloQ. Pros can easily survive early game and their strength in coordinated 5v5 makes them deals a lot of DPS on fights, making them really good in Pro-play.
Burst mages that usually rely on lack of vision to 100-0 enemy champs so it's difficult to get an easy pick in proplays, while Artillery mages' problem is that Pros are really good at dodging the spells, making their damage unreliable in teamfights.
I would say that control mages are super slept on underrated in like plat and bellow (where players don't know how to position themselves in teamfights. or face check bushes against a fed enemy assassin) but in challenger and pro play they see a lot more love
With all the mobility in this game Anivia has down time as you constantly have to move her R. It's why they lowered it's cool down.
Why are there two battle mages in the thumbnail?
Not bad! I do think control mages in particular will be incredibly strong in season 13 with the new items and the revert of seraphs embrace, which I'm very happy about. I do wish we had another % magic pen item that was a little better or more interesting than void staff. Unfortunately I don't think liandrys void deathcap is as good at fighting tanks as the on hit items which makes us more dependent on our AD carries to do well too. But that is better than all of us getting one shot by every 2/7 zed talon or pyke. Fucking pyke man.
THEY ARE REVERTING SERAPHS?
how much?
mana into ap conversion (instead of mana -> haste), shield or both?
@@user-xw5zy5wl8u Gives 100 AP, 860 mana, 10 haste, AP equal to 3% bonus mana, and dealing ability damage to a champion gives you 3 Haste for 5 seconds stacking up to 5 times. I think it will probably be an early item for like every Mage lol. Plus it means Ryze won't be 44% wr anymore
@@bensparrow3356 so no shield, but still amazing
Thanks
The class that doesn't make sense to me at all, when burst mages give more "you can't go here" auras and artillery mages have more space to work with. So in general I have no clue what their purpose besides perma shove to scale or roam. Pretty interested in what AP hypercarries means.
It means pretty much the same thing as an ad hypercarry. For instance a full tank sion will facecheck any burstmage and not think twice. But battlemages actually have the sustained damage to threaten to kill him if he does so. Plus they are notorious for being able to cover entire fights from start to finish where as burst mages have downtime.
Well. Vars actually should make a distinction between control mages and battlemages, adn you're wrong about burst mages. Control mages is exactly the definition of what you said about burst mages, but with dps; Battlemages are less about zone and dps and more about burst (they have a few cc and zone tools), and burst mages is just : "You came in my way, now fuck your health bar." Artillery stays artillery. The tru ad hypercarries are burst mages in terms of raw damage and battlemages in terms of high dps.
@@cascas12345678910 yeah a sion face checking a bush with anivia rocking a liandris and demonic embrace only to get stunned, full R charge, walled, slowed and repeatedly smacked with icicles is gonna have a bad day
Am I? I cant actually think of a burst or artillery mage who can deal with tanks. Like the (at most) 600 dmg that a lux q+e will do to a sion is pretty much nothing
I want ryze to get a new ult man if were headed toward an era of control mages i dont want him to be trash for it.
The recent ryze buff plus seraphs revert and rod of ages being added back into the game in season 13 will make ryze good again I'm sure of it
I think he'll be great with seraphs but I agree. I think it would be cool if his ult allowed him to change his runes in some capacity considering thats his whole thing. I do think they will probably keep his teleport in some capacity because I think he was the wandering mage in Arcane that saved Jayce by using that exact teleport.
@@yvetteday5656 yea but if he keeps his ult then he will just be broken in proplay again which will result in riot destroying him again. tweaking numbers and giving better items to make this version of his kit playable isnt good for the longevity of the champion.
@@yvetteday5656 then he goes 100% pick ban in pro and gets gutted back to 41% winrate again. he needs a rework.
@@enjimere9742 just delete the character then. Im fine with ryze being good every 6 years if i still get to play the ryze i know
Hi Vars, since K'Sante is coming out as a transformation champion, I think this is a great opportunity to discuss Gnar - the perfect transformation champion. I can explain. Gnar skill set, play style, stats change as he transform, he is much more invested and creative than K'Sante, who hardly changes anything with his transformation.
OKAY VARRRSS I had enough to drink to finally ask you to COSPLAY AS YONE thanks bro. ❤
as an ori main, i really dont understand why you and many others consider her a burst mage instead of a control make. her low cds, zone control, and auto attack modifier make her a control mage in my opinion, especially over the past couple years as her burst has been consistently lower than that of other burst mages, while performing much better in prolonged fights (just like a control mage would)
as a Viktor main, I either burn them to a crisp with my lasers or I cripple them with my field, good or bad lane, enemy's gonna suffer
viktor has the wonderful privelege of doing everything
early game lane bully for a lot of matchups, insane scaling
great single target burst with a single spell rotation, massive AOE sustained damage with R and E
lots of utility, lots of damage
medium-long range, fast as fuck
love viktor
Vars, I disagree with your definition of a control mage. A battle mage isn't necessarily a control mage. The two terms are not synonymous that you can use them interchangeably. Control mages are a specific type of mage class that excels at sieging and breaking team formations by possessing influence over a wide area in the battleground. They should be able to manipulate the enemy's movement, intimidate them from easily diving, and severely punish them for mispositioning. This is usually done by using area of effect spells that deal damage and/or crowd control, and by creating terrains. Control mages are notorious for having amazing wave clear, AOE damage and CC, decent range for safety, and are generally amazing turtlers (great at stalling games). Ideally, the best control mages should possess control over an area as wide as the lane, with 360 degree coverage. Prime examples are Anivia (the queen), Azir (the king), Heimerdinger, Zyra, Taliyah, Viktor, Orianna, Syndra, Ziggs. All have amazing wave clear, decently short cooldowns, good range, and abilities that linger in an area where they can sit back and relax, without requiring them to put themselves at harm's risk. Anivia has her wall, stun, and storm. Azir has his turret, wall, and soldiers. Zyra and Heimer, respectively, have their plants and mini turrets that they can spread throughout a wide area for a 360 defense, and even gain vision throughout the map. Orianna and Zyra have their balls. Viktor has his gravity field, laser, and storm. Ziggs has his mines and bombs. Taliyah has her field of rocks and wall. Note how some of these mages like Syndra, Orianna, and Ziggs are not battle mages, as the former two are burst mages, and the latter is an artillery mage.
In reality, there is a lot of overlap in these definitions. Some battle mages, burst mages, and artillery mages are control mages, but not all battle mages, burst mages, and artillery mages are control mages. To me, battle mages excel at 1v1, hence the name "battle" mage. Prime examples are Malzahar, Cassiopeia, Vladimir, Swain, and Ryze. They tend to be more sustained damage oriented, whether by using spammable abilities like Cassiopeia's Twin Fangs or spells that deal damage over time (DoT) like Malzahar's space AIDS, with shorter cooldowns, hence why they can duel a wider pool of champions, including front line bruisers and tanks, a class that burst and poke mages struggle to kill, since the former suffer from long cool downs, and the latter fall somewhere in between, where they lack high burst of burst mages and the short cooldowns of battle mages. Battle mages tend to also have shorter range, but, in exchange, have some form of survivability by either building tanky, or having built in survavility tools, such as Malzahar's shield, Vladimir's pool, and some spell vamp (Vlad, Swain, Cass, Fiddle), or even prologue death such as Karthus' passive.
The reality is that most mages have some zone control abilities like Cassiopeia (miasma), Karthus (wall of pain), Veigar (event horizon), Zoe (sleepy trouble bubble), Lux (lucent singularity), and Karma (soulflare) but I wouldn't call them control mages. For starters, Cassiopeia, Veigar, and Zoe are too single-target oriented to be control mages. Karthus requires getting in close range to maximize his damage and wave clearing, and Lux, Karma, and Zoe have garbage clearing. Champions like Vladimir and Swain, are battle mages, but they certainly are not control mages. Their range is too short and risky for safe wave clearing, and, like Karthus, they maximize their damage by diving team comps, as they deal 360 degree damage. Same with Lissandra, Fiddlesticks, Aurelion Sol, Kennen, and Neeko.
There are also some mages that have conditional zoning tools, by infecting minion waves, such as Malzahar (space-aids + voidlings), Ryze (flux), Brand (blaze), or killing enemies to activate passives, such as Lissandra with her frozen zombies. These are also not control mages, because their zone control is too conditional, and their range is garbage. There are other champions that are not necessarily mages, but are great zone controllers, such as Gangplank (he technically is an AD mage) with his barrel and ult, Teemo with his shrooms, and Miss Fortune with her bullet rain and ultimate. Other none-mage champions who have decent zoning tools are Shaco with his jack-in-the box, Caitlyn and Jhin with their traps, Aphelios with his mini turret, Illaoi with her tentacles, Ivern with Daisy, and Yorick, Trundle, and Ornn with their walls (Yorick also has his ghouls and Maiden to do the dirty work for him).
Battle mages dont rely on big damage numbers to pop off, but how long they can stall an entire team for. Even if im on swain or neeko and im behind, I can still zone them off while my team rushes dragon
I think they post the same problem as AP bruisers. They need more resilience to be able to deal their continuous damage but by giving them more survivability they will become raid bosses no one wants to play against. They need a lot of mana to sustain their damage but the mythic items that give them a lot more sustainability dont give mana except RoA which is a late game item giving them even less agency in the early to mid game. As for the other items its a hard choice between utility items that allow you to deal more damage and items that just give you more damage. Do you want railays, zonya’s and or demonic. Cool, but you have to sacrifice either shadow flame, deathcap or void to do so.
I also feel its just a mage problem in general. There is very little build diversity. You go either liandry’s of ludens into shadow. Death cap and void are also almost always necessary. Same goes for hourglass. Thats 5 items + boots is 6.
"Vayne can only efficiently attack one person at a time" You clearly don't own a lawn mower Vars
Right now I main Anivia, Heimerdinger (and Zed) and want to get into Aurelion Sol. These champions are satisfying to play.
about master yi: there is no such thing as inting on that damn champion, even if you go 0/10 you still nuke everyone in a 1v1 because of the guinsoo's double strike on hit stuff, always 100% effectiveness
I am a huge fan of Anivia. She has always been one of my absolute favorite champions, and I feel like she is massively underrated. She does need the right team comp to excel, but her ability to push, take objectives, zone the opposing team, and provide hard CC makes her a top-tier control mage that can still output great damage.
She's not popular because she's almost useless in most 1v1 scenarios outside of the laning phase. She's a teamfight champion, and she's not capable of flashy outplays, so many people find her boring. Still, I've had great success with her.
I really don't believe control mage and battle mage are interchangeable terms
I know they're technically the same category, but I think at this point it's kind of outdated to say battle mage and control mage are one and the same
naturally that'd add a 4th group of mage archetype but let's be real here, Ryze is neither a control mage nor a burst mage, and he lacks "the specialness" that the specialist class takes on, however he's clearly a prime example of a battle mage. Same can realistically be said for Swain, you can't tell me that Swain's W gives more zone-control than Orianna ball?
There would be champions that fit multiple categories (like Cassio would fit both control and battle mage categories) but then again, there are already champions in multiple categories, Kog'maw is a marksman and an artillery mage depending on your choice
hell the new changes to Blitz made him a catcher (which he was before) and then skirmisher subclass (cuz of the critcrank jungle), he can also fit some other roles but you get the idea.
I think that we are at that time when there is too many champions with dashes and remember my words, there will be new mage meta but only with newer champions who will have target abilities with the range of Cait auto
Brand heard yall talking about dmg over time.
let's go this series is back
I'm a big fan of the class. However, I'm confused as to why lissandra isn't in this list. While you could say she is a burst mage, her kit is designed to take over team fights. E in, stun team, ult yourself or the carry let your team get a kill and all of a sudden you have a zoning thrall... I always compared her to a more aggressive malzahar, so is that why she's burst instead of control?
You're onto it. Control mages can output damage for much longer than burst mages... Lissandra might be able to burst the whole team at once in the right circumstances, but once she does her thing she's kinda useless for a while. Anivia on the other hand is able to output damage for a longer time by just laying her ult down in a good spot and using her basic abilities off of cooldown. Functionally then Lissandra is a lot more risky - if you mess up your combo or just aren't fed enough to have a huge impact you'll lose out to anivia because she'll be useful for the whole fight. That said if Lissandra is strong enough to one shot the enemy team or if you have a teammate that can blast through the whole enemy team off of your setup, Lissandra would be better in those situations. That's kinda the difference between the two classes imo
Ah yes. Asol the hypercarry
as a support main, whenever i see a control mage or gp
i always consider goin Rell, since her kit forces them into the perfect position for them, becomes really devastating to the enemy team
Hypercarry Mages? My first thought was "Mage Assassins" like Ekko, Fizz, Kassadin, etc..
Don't know if they're underrated but yeah, vlad past 2 items is kind of a juggernaut control burst battle mage and I absolutely love to play him. The fact he needs good farm to be strong feels very rewarding, since I can tell very easily if I did well or not in a given game. Mages in general are very fun in my opinion and they feel playable against for the most part besides Ryze. No offence but his point and click root is the most unfun thing to play against if you get camped. If a TF gets camped, at least his damage is not unbeatable, but to any short range champion ryze is just a no counterplay kinda thing. It's kinda funny that you can tell if someone plays by what they hate the most.
I dont know about underrated, but i do think they're way healthier for the game. They're going to keep the tanks in check in a way, and wont completely disable adcs. Have you ever played something like Jinx against Syndra ? No, thats normal, because when she pops on the screen you disappear, so you cant play her against Syndra, you can still pick her tho. Jokes aside, i think someone like Cass or Anivia are healthier because against them you can at least try stuffs, i'm gonna take Syndra again for the example.
You're an ap against Syndra, the lanes goes and stuffs, you know she one shots you, so you have two options : one you're an idiot and think she wont, so you go full dmg and get bursted down, not fun for you, you're not an idiot and buy a zhonya to shut her ult down, she's not having fun because of it. Great. Same thing for ads but with a GA or an early Hexdrinker.
Against Cass or Anivia, there are counterplay other than " buy this item and she's useless ". SO yeah, i like them more ^^
mic sounds bad. low end is overpowering and sounds muffled. sibilance is still an issue
We will Ryze once again
Imo it's always satisfying to control things using, as the name suggests, a control mage, like having the power to decide how the fight will unfold. But I love also playing burst ap assassins and the problem is that all the items give hp in exchange of ap (seasons back you could reach 1k ap in late game pretty consistently). So even this class is forced to build these items meant for mages resulting in champs that should be glass cannons with 3.5k hp every game. I totally understand that it is hard to make items to distinguish better the two classes, but it's just sad that 1) they are not even called ap assassins anymore, even riot when they address "assassins" they mean the ad ones, 2) no current ap items changes in preseason still, and I really hope that they will come (manaless ap items are one more bad than the other).
6:53 Is Fiora really in the same "hypercarry" category as Kassadin and Kayle?
A comment for yt algorithm cus vars deserves it
I don't personally consider Ryze a true control mage. His mix of bruiser-esque tankiness and extremely high DPS late-game makes him into more of a bruiser/hypercarry mage.
to me battle mage are all control mages,
but that doesn't make control mage all battle mages,
either way the problem of this class is that; AOE dmg and cc or zoning is their signature anymore, Diana Qiyana Yone etc in solo queue environment simply performs better
orianna is and will always be a control mage. She has the perfectly balanced and skill display kit
i personally find control mages to be misunderstood. since most of them have a pretty consistant damage source, even the hybrid types like orianna (control/burst). people tend not to understand exactly what theyre capable of, one of my favorite "off meta" picks is cassiopeia support. max Q and you have a very solid poke support that can also all in, W and ult late game are great peel and catch tools
the archetype is often tossed aside because most players dont understand what theyre strengths are and try to play them as a burst mage
Control Mages would be a staple class in mid, if it wasn't for 200 years champs that can fullfill the role of a control mage too while getting other advanages wihtout the mobility downside (ex: yone, quiyanna...)
did you change your mic during the sponsor segment by any chance? i noticed a huge drop in mic quality for seemingly no reason there, ill definitely be looking into it tho even if its just for a lil support for you!
In a shitty attempt to clear up confusion:
Battle mages sacrifice front end damage for Aoe abilities(both cc and damage) so they exude a large presence ina team fight, they all deal damage but some way less than others
Within the community the ones that deal the most amount of damage, which are often the ones with a small amount of Cc are referred to as battle mages.
The ones that deal less are often accompanied by Aoe cc and disruption tools. These are commonly referred to as controll mages within the community
So a control mage is to macro what a hypercarry is to micro. A champ who can win the game through intelligent gameplay.
Seriously doubt we'll ever see a control mage meta as much as I would like one. There's no way modern Riot would ever put the focus on anything other than their beloved skirmishers/duelists...They can't make the e-boy money if they're not the class everyone wants to play...
2 points of my opinion:
The riot champion classification is extremely confusing because some of it is based characteristics (ap/ad) and some based on function in teamfight. You have marksmen with no subtype and mages with many. (Some even not official) I'm in favor of reworking it to a function based classification. Which could also lead to streamlined item design.
All to have a more simple base, so design space is freed for fun new mechanics, Without overloading new players and still keeping strategic options for experienced players.
Control mages are conceptually in a bad spot, due to being a weird mix and not good at anything. Less range than arty, less dps than adc (against tanks), less sustain than ad fighters, less tank than tanks, less control than enchanters (and most other champs)
What is their function in a fight? Zone control/sustain dps against tanks/burst dps against fighters/off-tanking? Are they good or the best at any of these? Are they flexibile and can they choose between any?
Imo if they are strong, the numbers are overtuned, not because the design is inherently strong/cohesive/interesting.
Also items are lacking to go hard into any role they could have, meaning they are easily countered by classes with more items with the same focus. (Eg. Tanks looking for mobility) AD fighters have many different options, AP is just 1 mythic choice, 1 item choice, get the hat, get the magic pen, get the hourglass, done.
Battle mages and control mages are two different things
Where's my boy Viktor in the preview image? Gonna make me cry, smh
It's funny that Ryze is ignored because he is a special case
Control mages: Anivia (queen), Azir (king), Heimerdinger, Zyra, Taliyah, Syndra, Orianna, Viktor, Ziggs, and Gangplank (in AD form). The rest have situational control mage qualities, but are not true control mages.
I've long held that Morgana should be classified as a Control Mage/Battlemage moreso than just a 'controller'. Her Q has a 90% AP ratio, her W bonus damage scales up to 180% bonus damage based on enemy's missing health and has a sizeable aoe, and her Ult is a short term area control spell that can effect all 5 members of the enemy team.
Your thoughts, Vars?
Morgana was definitely designed to be more of a mage initially. She literally has 3 damage abilities, good wave clear, and can independently lane and jungle. She, however, becomes more of a support in the late game, as her damage is unreliable and inconsistent, since she relies heavily on her snare to get the full damage on her pool. The only reason why she is categorized as controller (support) is because that role became more meta for her, due to the value of black shield and her disgusting snare.
Morgana started the game as a control mage but with the introduction of zed and yasuo was quickly forced out of the midlane and found a very comfortable and powerful role as a support. She's just more consistent there than mid sadly.
Can anyone say why in wild rift we have only 1 battle mage (Asol)?
Wouldnt Cass also be part of the control mage she has great sustain in teamfight cause of the healing on e and got a huge areal denial and utility
edit: nvm am dumb just didnt see her in the list of control mage vars showed
I do think they are a bit underrated, and people who play them casually don’t understand how to properly use their abilities to maximize effectiveness. Their biggest crutch is mobility.
In my conception all Control mages are battle mages, but not ALL battle mages are Control mages
Ex. Vladmir only battle mage not Control mages
But my conception, im right, vars is right
Love the videos
Cause Control mage imply some form of cc
Elder Scrolls Boss Swain is the best feeling you can ever get in LoL in my opinion, it just fun being this terror that can just refuse to die and utterly control the the fight by just existing. Then again I'm a jerk that goes rylai's on him to make it harder for people to escape the BIRD ZONE as I like to call it.
Swain ult is now offically renamed to be BIRD ZONE.
RoA is back in season 13!! tankier ap champs! let's go!
The problem with control mages is that they have to be a scaling class so they don’t 1v2 every early skirmish and later on can 1v9. Laning phase is the point in the game we’re every player has the highest agency and also the point where you can consistently get a lead. The only reason they are good is because they are viktor with his stupidly good laning or people just always throw there lead unless they are challenger and even then people in challenger also throw there lead.