I'd put Eli up against RV obviously Dungy and Reed to win. Put it this way James Stewart said Eli was the only rider he worried about racing when Tomac was moving from the 250s to 450s.
@@Peanutdenver Stewart said on his pod cast couple weeks ago et is one of the best to ever do it, he was being serious and just slightly joking but more serious
Amazing that Eli is still underrated, after all of his comeback performances, victories, overall speed, and talent. He is truly one of the all-time greats in the sport. And to go nearly seven years without an injury is such an amazing accomplishment in the sport. It will be sad to see him retire.
It would be interesting to have a count of how many other riders each of them have passed. With Eli’s atrocious starts, I bet he has the record for most passes.
Too many of you so called moto journalists types missed the raw talent of Tomac! Other than 2016, the year of recovery from double shoulder surgery, Tomac has consistently been the fastest guy in the premier class of MX and SX. Those “weird races” when he was not the fastest guy, when no one could figure out why he ran eighth, we now know thanks to his dad, those were races that he was not willing to risk injury on a bike that wasn’t right or a problem with himself, minor injury, arm pump, whatever. He is a “generational talent” and unquestionably deserves his place in the record books. Championships are nice, but raw talent, fastest guy on the track speed, that’s a rare gift and Tomac has had it for more than a decade.
I mean, I feel like they forget how much the sport has progressed since the greats days. These newer guys are so much more talented than most of the field. Not saying if the greats raced in this era, they wouldn't still dominate but its something to consider, none the less.
Absolutely agree. I think that is majorly overlooked. Top 10 is much faster now then back then. I think they mentioned on Race Day Live recently that top 10 now has about a 1 sec difference in fast lap, and back in the early 2000s it was 2-3 seconds between top 10.
@@jeewilly321 I just looked this up the other day, ricky and Chad would have the rest of the field beat by 2 secs a race if the track was at least a minute long, It’s not the same as today by any means. Ricky was chads daddy and Ricky knew he could beat him any night but when James came up the ranks and was coming in his prime, Ricky didn’t really have anything for him. If James was closer to ricky’s age, I believe the history books would look a lot different.
The real difference is that in the past, less riders had the same serious training, program, bikes etc so i guess it was easier to break records before. But today, most top riders have the same level of training, same factory bikes and most of them train together, so harder to have a rider way over the other ones. Also now all bikes are 4 strokes, i think in the 2 strokes era, the gap between good and bad bikes was bigger.
@@japslapr first generation aluminum frame 450 was phenomenal Stewart won sx and Langston won mx on it. When they reinvented the wheel with the 2010 model it had issues.
If you get to 40 wins in SX you're hall of fame level even with zero titles. Odds are you'll have at least one with that many wins, but still, 40+ wins at that level is elite.
Yeah they need to do something for Motocross and supercross in terms of how points are scored. Riders get injured a lot more than other sports like F1.
Seriously, the why Eli dominated those MX seasons make his Rushmore case. I was a Reed fan back in the day, but he was a bit of an SX specialist, Eli matched his SX resume and has as strong an oitdoor resume as anyone
which taken out of context is impressive until you realize two of mx titles saw him avoid Kroc who had kicked ass in 2016 winning 20 of 24 before losing back to back years with shoulder injuries.
Let me first start by saying I have nothing but respect for Carmichael, McGrath and Blair's opinions. However, I think a few key points were missed when debating the greatness of Eli Tomac: 1. I would argue his ability to adapt and change may have actually propelled him past so many of the all time greats this season. Eli has managed to avoid that truly terrible race this year, especially the early season conundrum that has historically cost him championships. I would like to remind some of you, this wasn't always Eli's fault as there were bike failures along the way, as even Jason experienced at some points early this season with the Kawi (Kawi seems to be more prone to this but that's just my two cents). Every year guys talk about the changes they've made that are going to push them over the top and 99% of the time it's just lip service (just look at Barcia). However, Eli truly did it. Just look at his starts and how much his patience within the race has improved. He's not forcing opportunities...he's waiting for them. 2. I've been watching supercross and motocross my entire life and ET3 is one of the fastest and most gifted guys I've ever seen on a bike. Aside from Stew, there have been very few that can man handle a 450 like Tomac. Webb win's on good tactics but lacks speed, which is why he struggles so much outdoors (Nothing against Webb, it's just that pure "racecraft" is his meal ticket), which is why he disappears when they head outdoors. Traditionally speaking, you're not going to just hold the inside corner and slow people up for 30 minutes and win an outdoor national. At some point it's going to come down to how fast you can throw down lap times on a deteriorating track. @PuplMx You guys aren't giving enough credit where credit is due in this circumstance. If he finishes this season on two wheels it will be Eli's 7th overall (indoor/outdoor) championship, including his 250 career. Anyone watching Ryan Dungey's last season knew Eli was faster but Dungey once more avoided the big mistake (a true model of consistency)...something Eli has rectified late in his career.
How many DNF's did the Kawi give Tomac? Three that I can think of, and each were the game changers for a title. The people doing the broadcasting will never say or acknowledge it.
I have followed tomac his whole career from Honda, Kawasaki and Yamaha and I do see him as a great, I think what might have put him under the radar to a lot of people is he has been kind of soft spoken on the podiums or more or less very private so I do see where people dismiss him but if you watch all of these guys races and mute the tv and skip interviews and podiums you can not deny Tomac 3. Hats of to Tomac 3 one of the greatest to do it.
Tomac will be in the books as a all time great. Truth is MC, and McGrath got their records because the field of racers weren't even close to being as stacked as they are now. If you put ET against MC and McGrath in their prime they wouldn't have the records they do
@@jamespatterson2002 doesn't MATTER! When McGrath an RC raced there wasn't a STACKED feild like there is NOW! Back then it was only like 2-3 guys. An its been like that for awhile till like 5-6yrs ago...
@@Mbowman223, I’d disagree. Not sure if you’re old like me, but there were legit stars back then. If you look at todays stacked field the top 3-4 lap all the way up to 10-7th place. Also bikes were more of an advantage back then too, which takes away from the talent of riders. I believe Jeremy, Ricky and James are the top three. I wish Windam did more on a 250cc because so many people don’t remember his talent.
A stat I would like to know is how many titles line up at the gate each week in all these different eras. How many Loretta’s titles, amateur titles, 250 titles, and 450 titles have been won by riders on the gate for MC in the 90s, RC early 2000s, Reed and Stew late 2000s, and RV and RD compared to the last 5 years with Tomac. I feel like they’re forgetting how much different the sport is with training and such. Yes Tomac is one of the all timers of the sport. He’s definitely a “generational” rider, everyone knows who Eli is. I do believe at times he has been the fastest guy on a dirt bike, he was just so unpredictable on the Kawi
McGrath raced against nobodies. Eli is literally 1 million times the rider and racer McGrath ever was. Zero comparison. He’s been racing the best riders of all time besides RC. The level of talent is unheard of today it’s insane.
Mcgrath raced tons of good guys outdoors and in sx. He brought a different style and dominated leaving guys scrambling to catch up in sx. Now there are so many programs for upcoming racers all with the same style that its harder to stand out.
@@TheShift1313 bro no he didn’t. The level of competition… not even sure there’s a word in our dictionary to even describe such a difference. It’s like do you think he’d beat RC? No way in hell he’s even competitive and then we have RV which I think would be RC. Different times brother.
@@Josh-py2pq no doubt mcgrath dominated but Emig, lusk, ward, bradshaw, albertyn, larocco, henry, ryno. There were a lot of fast guys. I wouldnt say nobodies....
The pride of Jeremy McGrath is huge. No doubt he was an awesome rider, but please some one tell him that nowadays 5-7 riders might win anytime. During his days if he didn't win, then his shadow won......
Jeremy McGrath talking down on modern day champions like Tomac is the SX/MX equivalent to if Babe Ruth was alive today and was talking down on Mike Trout because Trout doesn't hit 50 home runs a year and win every World Series. Like yeah of course you could close out championships more easily, your competitors had the lifestyle habits of a 21 year old college student in a fraternity.
It's like that interview with Bob Hannah where he said that if he transported a rider back to 1970 they would get beat by Roger decoster. I'm not taking away anything from these guys from the past but people get better at sports regardless over time improving on habits and skills. Guys nowadays are just faster because it's been so many years of evolution of form. That's like saying Brian deegan is a better freestyler than a modern guy. It doesn't mean that they are worse athlete.
Let’s put it this way, Jeremy talks down on modern riders, but I’m willing to bet ANYTHING, that Jeremy in his prime would only be a top 10 guy at best 🤷♂️
Dude the year he had undeniable dominance was when he won 8 but lost the championship because of a bad race or two!! He was hands down the fastest man on the planet!!!!
Eli looks so comfortable on bike now and I think it’s a lot to do with the manual clutch, that feeling he’d lost on the kx back for a top rider makes a big difference. Starts on a manual clutch are better, hydraulic is grabbier and has less feel, same in corners
Now id never put Tomac ahead of Ricky or Jeremy, but he's gotta be top 5. I feel like back in the day there was 2 maybe 3 good riders, whereas nowadays the top 12 riders are within a second of each other. I think the field is more competitive than it ever was back then which makes what Tomac has done even more impressive. Especially if he wins this year and can back it up again next year, hes gotta be top 5.
Having so many riders within a second in qualifying means nothing. You have to ask if there are so many fast guys today why are only 6-8 finishing on the lead lap. Some guys are not just getting lapped once but 2 laps down.
To be fair, they're talking specifically about Supercross. Hence McGrath being considered the "all-time" great when he's sitting next to the actual GOAT.
Because he didn't beat the top dog to take it he won the first two without the best Motocross rider at the time Kroc blew his shoulder out and then the Webb debacle in 18
Hope they go back to this topic after this Supercross season. To me following up 22 SX season with the MX title and how he has rode so far in 23 I think this may change some minds.
Underrated! I don't think they are giving enough credit to those he is riding with. Theses guys he's been racing with hard just as fast on any given race day. Makes it hard to dominate.
Not really from 2015-2017 he only really had the dominant run in the 15 nationals and 17 SX as outside of that he was distant 3rd behind KRoc and RD5 however his SX career from 2018-19 can best be described as dominant but failure.
Well you look at Stew, if you’re going by championships, for how many wins and high regards we view him on. RV,RC and RD have more championship. And the point of “ no weirdo races” is exactly what costed James so many championships. His lack of backing off that we loved about his riding was also what costed him too. And no offense to McGrath he’s the king of Supercross but his class isn’t nearly as talented as today (Barcia,Musquin, Sexton, Webb, Roczen, Anderson, And even Brayton all won races in their career with Stewart not being far off a few times which takes talent) , it was the party era where you’d show up hungover at the track and still put on a clinic whereas now we take the raw talent and can refine it and refine the rider. Eli outright speed is that of James Stewart but his stamina is other worldly so you.
I have to disagree with you on the talent level when McGrath was competing/winning. There were way more guys on factory bikes racing against him. Just to name a few Carmichael, Windham, Emig, Greg Albertine(sp?), Doug Henry, David Villumien, Ezra Luck, Mike Larroco, and the list goes on. He raced against man guys with championships who were on fast bikes.
Tomac should be the new goat, he has dominated and dominated for more years than these guys, nothing more than he does not count the problems of his motorcycle or personal
for me et3 is the best rider. he won the race that not necessary for him to get holeshot. usually he is in number 6 or 8 spot at the start but he always work his way to pass them all. he has a tremendous skills so amazing for a rider to have a talent like tomac. no doubt tomac is the all time great rider, thats my opinion. carmicle always got holeshot then win the race tomac is not getting holeshot all the time but win the race by his super skills
watching RC and McGrath shoot the shit about the best that have ever done it feels like such a treat. I'd love to see this crew go on for hours on this topic. (not just Tomac). edit: the description of Dungy sounds like Jeff Stanton to me. never really the fastest, but for those few years he just won.
I think Eli performed at such a high level when he was on, Eli expected everything of himself, and when things went bad, he couldn't collect himself because he couldn't forgive himself. How hard it must have been to win all those SX races and not walk away with titles. IMO, Eli has just improved mentally this year. He did what champions do, dig deep internally, get honest and change. His whole mindset and demeanor has changed this year.
Yeah great thoughts. There has to be something that deflated him when he had those off nights. Dungey was never a match speed wise but his consistency was off the charts.
to be one of the best of all time, it's not only poidums, win and titles, there is also pure speed, dungey didin't have that, rc yes mc yes rv yes js yes cr yes et yes
McGrath and Carmichael can comment on Tomacs but the others that have never raced at that level should be ashamed of there comments. He has proved you wrong. Go ET3!
Eli is on top of his program an im not sure if is doing out doors but wow how about is it gonna be nect year when hes more comfortable on the yamaha...how good will he be...
He’s def on their level at his peak probably better at outdoors than MC and RV but him Vs stew and RC would be nasty. RV would also be up there no doubt
I think as good as the kawi was that Eli had it still seems like it was inconsistent or had a small window where it worked how he liked . Which meant some nights 6th was the best the bike was capable of Or pushing any harder would end in disaster
McGrath is correct when pointing at his head while saying "It's right here". Tomac's mental game has finally caught up to his physical game. He could deny the up and comers for some more time.
6 time champ is not bad if not for the injury that took him out for reedy of the year in 2023 he would have easily been 7 Time Champ with 51 wins over all!!
Back in the day pro riders were riding, racing, partying, drinking beer etc…. Nowadays they are all elite level Athletes trying to gain any inch they can get. It’s a different time and you can’t compare it.
ET should have won 3 SX titles but failed in the most important races of these seasons but he is consistent in terms of wins per seasons. And just imagine the King trainning like the GOAT did since his early 20s, his SX wins record would have been over 100 guaranteed and he would have won 10 straight like the GOAT did in MX but in the main class.
Hmmm don’t b taking anything from Tomac. He’s more fluid but pulls out some incredible speed when needed . Last year his outdoor speed was unbelievable = to Stewart at times. His indoor he’s beaten 2 supercross champions and some real contenders. The 4 to 10 th are all fast guys which back in the day it may only be top 4. So because the field is faster ELi not as impressive hmmmm. I think it shows more credit to him. He has took the lead in points while all the champion and Roxen were contenders. He’s also competing over longer period of time winning races. Eli is capable of 3 more seasons but can he take McGrath? It will be tough with Ferandis, and the 250 guy &!sexteen going chip away at wins. 28 wins over possible 55 races. If anyone can do it Eli strengths, speed, endurance, doesn’t get injured nor DNF, mental toughness, his weekness starts and hes improving that’s but does he desire all time wins idk.
Tomac killing it on many levels. Leave Weeb out of everything. A guy who cannot ride any other 450 brand, cannot ride outdoors, and sucks in SX whoops is not impressive to me.
What i remember watching mcgrath, rc, steward. Rv etc. Those guys would hang it out there. Checkers or wreckers. They found another gear. We would see that from eli sometimes now and then but others he would be back in the pack. So yeah his stats snuck up!
Eli is in his own world I hope he does another full year I don’t understand why he’d hang it up after supercross but he’s in charge of it so whatever he does I know he will be classy on his exit
Hate to put it on a MFR but think of all the DNF's Tomac had on the Kawi. He usually could overcome one but I think several years he had more than one.
I kinda disagree with how they look at Tomac cause if we're talking Sx and Mx Tomac had 3 years of domination in a row in Mx, yea he didn't win Championship in Sx a few years even tho he won more then anyone else but if you put mx and sx together in 450 class he has 5 championships sooo....
Plus there talking about McGrath and Carmichaels dominating seasons but let's be real the field was no where near as stacked with talent in those years as it is now so the championship is alot harder to win now then in those years, back then there was 3 riders that dominated, Js7 being the fastest out of the 3 then Carmichael being in a league of his own until js7 came in the picture and then 3rd Reed and he was good but not as good as Js7 and RC4 so you can't really debate in that sense, just my thoughts!
People say that the Kawi is a capable bike and they are right, but Tomac never looked as comfortable as he does on the Yamaha when he was on kawi. He also has never looked better on a bike than he did in the first 3 outdoors races of 2015. He was on a level in 2015 that I don't think we will see again from anyone for a long time
So it's cause he doesn't have titles BUT LISTEN he is gonna be the second most winning rider of all time, so yes it makes him better than everyone but who #1 is PERIOD
I always say it like this..... If your life is on the line, and you have to pick one guy to win a race to save your life, between those top guys they are talking about. Anyone with knowledge of the sport is picking Tomac over dungey, reed, maybe jeremy, but its hard to say with him becasue of the era difference. I think the only people i would consider betting on over tomac are RV, RC and maybge stewart.
Saying Tomac isn't viewed as an all-timer because he didn't close out championships for 6 straight seasons the way McGrath did is like saying Lebron isn't an all-timer because he didn't close out every year with a title the same way Bill Russell & the Celtics did in the 1950s and 1960s. The level of competition has increased by so much, a guy at the top of their respective sport these days have many other athletes that are essentially on the same level as them. Therefore, it is virtually impossible for even the best athletes to be as dominant as the legends of yesteryear. Think about it, McGrath had to "close out" titles against guys like Ezra Lusk and Mike LaRocco. No disrespect to those guys, they were great riders, but it just isn't the same as Tomac having to deal with Villopoto and Dungey early in his career, and then Roczen, Webb etc. later on. Every sport gets more competitive and even as time progresses, thus it gets more and more difficult for one individual athlete to absolutely dominate. This reality is also why I believe Villopoto is the most dominant Supercross rider of all time. He won 4 straight titles and 40+ races against 3 other undisputed top 10 riders of all time. No other rider has ever done that, both SX or MX.
Also, they're not even mentioning outdoors. Tomac is undeniably a top-5 MXer of all time, arguably top 3, and has enjoyed far more success than MC in that discipline. But you'd never hear Eli sharing his thoughts on how he never thought of McGrath as "the guy" in motocross.
Now what will happen in 2024 with Jett and look at the races in 2023 where he and Chase were blowing the field away they were riding at a different level all season
Just because ET 'missed' a couple of championships, doesn't mean he didn't dominate those years. ET is an all-timer, no doubt.
I'd put Eli up against RV obviously Dungy and Reed to win. Put it this way James Stewart said Eli was the only rider he worried about racing when Tomac was moving from the 250s to 450s.
💯🏆😎
@@Peanutdenver Agree. Stewart thinks highly of ET.
@@Peanutdenver Stewart said on his pod cast couple weeks ago et is one of the best to ever do it, he was being serious and just slightly joking but more serious
@@Peanutdenver that’s all that needs to be said
Amazing that Eli is still underrated, after all of his comeback performances, victories, overall speed, and talent. He is truly one of the all-time greats in the sport. And to go nearly seven years without an injury is such an amazing accomplishment in the sport. It will be sad to see him retire.
It would be interesting to have a count of how many other riders each of them have passed. With Eli’s atrocious starts, I bet he has the record for most passes.
Too many of you so called moto journalists types missed the raw talent of Tomac! Other than 2016, the year of recovery from double shoulder surgery, Tomac has consistently been the fastest guy in the premier class of MX and SX. Those “weird races” when he was not the fastest guy, when no one could figure out why he ran eighth, we now know thanks to his dad, those were races that he was not willing to risk injury on a bike that wasn’t right or a problem with himself, minor injury, arm pump, whatever. He is a “generational talent” and unquestionably deserves his place in the record books. Championships are nice, but raw talent, fastest guy on the track speed, that’s a rare gift and Tomac has had it for more than a decade.
I mean, I feel like they forget how much the sport has progressed since the greats days. These newer guys are so much more talented than most of the field. Not saying if the greats raced in this era, they wouldn't still dominate but its something to consider, none the less.
Absolutely agree. I think that is majorly overlooked. Top 10 is much faster now then back then. I think they mentioned on Race Day Live recently that top 10 now has about a 1 sec difference in fast lap, and back in the early 2000s it was 2-3 seconds between top 10.
@@jeewilly321 I just looked this up the other day, ricky and Chad would have the rest of the field beat by 2 secs a race if the track was at least a minute long, It’s not the same as today by any means. Ricky was chads daddy and Ricky knew he could beat him any night but when James came up the ranks and was coming in his prime, Ricky didn’t really have anything for him. If James was closer to ricky’s age, I believe the history books would look a lot different.
@@PegyurSoreAs you know James and Ricky grew up racing together right
@@Themusicbiz Ricky is like 5 or 6 years older than bubba?
@@Themusicbiz no Eric I didn’t know that? That’s crazy 10 year old James was racing 16 year old ricky… wild
The real difference is that in the past, less riders had the same serious training, program, bikes etc so i guess it was easier to break records before. But today, most top riders have the same level of training, same factory bikes and most of them train together, so harder to have a rider way over the other ones. Also now all bikes are 4 strokes, i think in the 2 strokes era, the gap between good and bad bikes was bigger.
I’ve heard someone say “ back than it was raw talent that took you far, today it’s refined talent that’ll make take you far”
I agree and is part of what makes Stews rides with Yamaha so incredible... that bike was garbage.
@@japslapr first generation aluminum frame 450 was phenomenal Stewart won sx and Langston won mx on it. When they reinvented the wheel with the 2010 model it had issues.
Very good point
If you get to 40 wins in SX you're hall of fame level even with zero titles. Odds are you'll have at least one with that many wins, but still, 40+ wins at that level is elite.
Yeah they need to do something for Motocross and supercross in terms of how points are scored. Riders get injured a lot more than other sports like F1.
I mean he did stack 3 years in a row of outdoors🤷♂️
Seriously, the why Eli dominated those MX seasons make his Rushmore case. I was a Reed fan back in the day, but he was a bit of an SX specialist, Eli matched his SX resume and has as strong an oitdoor resume as anyone
which taken out of context is impressive until you realize two of mx titles saw him avoid Kroc who had kicked ass in 2016 winning 20 of 24 before losing back to back years with shoulder injuries.
Let me first start by saying I have nothing but respect for Carmichael, McGrath and Blair's opinions. However, I think a few key points were missed when debating the greatness of Eli Tomac:
1. I would argue his ability to adapt and change may have actually propelled him past so many of the all time greats this season. Eli has managed to avoid that truly terrible race this year, especially the early season conundrum that has historically cost him championships. I would like to remind some of you, this wasn't always Eli's fault as there were bike failures along the way, as even Jason experienced at some points early this season with the Kawi (Kawi seems to be more prone to this but that's just my two cents). Every year guys talk about the changes they've made that are going to push them over the top and 99% of the time it's just lip service (just look at Barcia). However, Eli truly did it. Just look at his starts and how much his patience within the race has improved. He's not forcing opportunities...he's waiting for them.
2. I've been watching supercross and motocross my entire life and ET3 is one of the fastest and most gifted guys I've ever seen on a bike. Aside from Stew, there have been very few that can man handle a 450 like Tomac. Webb win's on good tactics but lacks speed, which is why he struggles so much outdoors (Nothing against Webb, it's just that pure "racecraft" is his meal ticket), which is why he disappears when they head outdoors. Traditionally speaking, you're not going to just hold the inside corner and slow people up for 30 minutes and win an outdoor national. At some point it's going to come down to how fast you can throw down lap times on a deteriorating track.
@PuplMx You guys aren't giving enough credit where credit is due in this circumstance. If he finishes this season on two wheels it will be Eli's 7th overall (indoor/outdoor) championship, including his 250 career. Anyone watching Ryan Dungey's last season knew Eli was faster but Dungey once more avoided the big mistake (a true model of consistency)...something Eli has rectified late in his career.
Now Eli has also won the outdoor and helped bring home Moto De Nations... He's one of the best in my books
How many DNF's did the Kawi give Tomac? Three that I can think of, and each were the game changers for a title. The people doing the broadcasting will never say or acknowledge it.
He lost quite a few wins because of Kawi
I almost forgot that. Thanks 🙏
And when he had that DNF putting him 25 points down to only lose the championship that year? by 1 point!! Come on that bike costs him!
@@1hotahi964 exactly!!
I have followed tomac his whole career from Honda, Kawasaki and Yamaha and I do see him as a great, I think what might have put him under the radar to a lot of people is he has been kind of soft spoken on the podiums or more or less very private so I do see where people dismiss him but if you watch all of these guys races and mute the tv and skip interviews and podiums you can not deny Tomac 3. Hats of to Tomac 3 one of the greatest to do it.
To Me He's right there or just behind RC.A Great outdoor Rider and good in Supercross also.I Love watching Him race Outdoors the best.
Tomac will be in the books as a all time great.
Truth is MC, and McGrath got their records because the field of racers weren't even close to being as stacked as they are now.
If you put ET against MC and McGrath in their prime they wouldn't have the records they do
2 strokes take far more skill...4 strokes are easy to go fast on
@@jamespatterson2002 doesn't MATTER! When McGrath an RC raced there wasn't a STACKED feild like there is NOW! Back then it was only like 2-3 guys. An its been like that for awhile till like 5-6yrs ago...
@@Mbowman223, I’d disagree. Not sure if you’re old like me, but there were legit stars back then. If you look at todays stacked field the top 3-4 lap all the way up to 10-7th place. Also bikes were more of an advantage back then too, which takes away from the talent of riders. I believe Jeremy, Ricky and James are the top three. I wish Windam did more on a 250cc because so many people don’t remember his talent.
Bro RC raced against Bubba and Reed LOL
@@t.d6379 that's a stacked feild huh 2 people!? 🤡
"Dad, is he going to beat your record?".....MC- "nope" 🤣
I bet MC is not so sure now......
A stat I would like to know is how many titles line up at the gate each week in all these different eras. How many Loretta’s titles, amateur titles, 250 titles, and 450 titles have been won by riders on the gate for MC in the 90s, RC early 2000s, Reed and Stew late 2000s, and RV and RD compared to the last 5 years with Tomac. I feel like they’re forgetting how much different the sport is with training and such. Yes Tomac is one of the all timers of the sport. He’s definitely a “generational” rider, everyone knows who Eli is. I do believe at times he has been the fastest guy on a dirt bike, he was just so unpredictable on the Kawi
That was a phenomenal clip of video right there.
Weage did the numbers and tomac is the most consistent 450 rider since 2016.
And he was shit off the start !! If he was an epic starter he would be I 2023 season already waiting for the rest of them 🤣
Legend, no doubt about it, Eli is an all-timer.
Tomac is in a class of his own. True professional. Thank you for what you do.
That round in Arlington that he ended up 15th was a brake problem. He had no front brake to finish the race. He shared it on Instagram that week.
Tomac is 100% all time. I don’t think anyone can hang with his speed when he’s in ET mode.
Herlings?
2016 roczen
@@Anonymous-sx1hr roczen at 2016 spring creek the first two laps is one of the fastest moments i’ve ever seen on a dirtbike
prime Stewart would have blown hid doors off. I'm a big Eli fan but stewie was "the fastest man on the planet" for a reason. he earned that nick name.
Herlings is faster
McGrath raced against nobodies. Eli is literally 1 million times the rider and racer McGrath ever was. Zero comparison. He’s been racing the best riders of all time besides RC. The level of talent is unheard of today it’s insane.
Nobody's. Lmfao be quiet. That's so wrong and disrespectful.
Mcgrath raced tons of good guys outdoors and in sx. He brought a different style and dominated leaving guys scrambling to catch up in sx. Now there are so many programs for upcoming racers all with the same style that its harder to stand out.
@@TheShift1313 bro no he didn’t. The level of competition… not even sure there’s a word in our dictionary to even describe such a difference. It’s like do you think he’d beat RC? No way in hell he’s even competitive and then we have RV which I think would be RC. Different times brother.
@@Josh-py2pq no doubt mcgrath dominated but Emig, lusk, ward, bradshaw, albertyn, larocco, henry, ryno. There were a lot of fast guys. I wouldnt say nobodies....
Jeff Emig... that's all I have to say you donut.
I don’t think villopoto gets enough credit for what he did
It really does suck when you win but don't feel like you're the best. Something you can never get over
The pride of Jeremy McGrath is huge. No doubt he was an awesome rider, but please some one tell him that nowadays 5-7 riders might win anytime. During his days if he didn't win, then his shadow won......
Jeremy McGrath talking down on modern day champions like Tomac is the SX/MX equivalent to if Babe Ruth was alive today and was talking down on Mike Trout because Trout doesn't hit 50 home runs a year and win every World Series. Like yeah of course you could close out championships more easily, your competitors had the lifestyle habits of a 21 year old college student in a fraternity.
You just can’t though bro, it’s MC
It's like that interview with Bob Hannah where he said that if he transported a rider back to 1970 they would get beat by Roger decoster. I'm not taking away anything from these guys from the past but people get better at sports regardless over time improving on habits and skills. Guys nowadays are just faster because it's been so many years of evolution of form. That's like saying Brian deegan is a better freestyler than a modern guy. It doesn't mean that they are worse athlete.
The talent pool is so much deeper now.
Let’s put it this way, Jeremy talks down on modern riders, but I’m willing to bet ANYTHING, that Jeremy in his prime would only be a top 10 guy at best 🤷♂️
Dude the year he had undeniable dominance was when he won 8 but lost the championship because of a bad race or two!! He was hands down the fastest man on the planet!!!!
I love RC. He cracks me up with his brutal honesty. 🤣
He's an all-timer. Its a different era now with different bikes and talented riders. Hes as dominant as you can be now. Amazing rider.
Just because YOU don't like Eli, doesn't mean that he isn't a all time great. (And a lot of us do like Eli)
Yea this is weird to say he’s not an all timer and this is his job lmao anyone with a brain knows Eli is without a doubt an all timer
Eli looks so comfortable on bike now and I think it’s a lot to do with the manual clutch, that feeling he’d lost on the kx back for a top rider makes a big difference. Starts on a manual clutch are better, hydraulic is grabbier and has less feel, same in corners
what a phenomenal conversation and amazing perspectives from these amazing dudes!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tomac is one of the best outdoors riders ever
Now id never put Tomac ahead of Ricky or Jeremy, but he's gotta be top 5. I feel like back in the day there was 2 maybe 3 good riders, whereas nowadays the top 12 riders are within a second of each other. I think the field is more competitive than it ever was back then which makes what Tomac has done even more impressive. Especially if he wins this year and can back it up again next year, hes gotta be top 5.
Having so many riders within a second in qualifying means nothing. You have to ask if there are so many fast guys today why are only 6-8 finishing on the lead lap. Some guys are not just getting lapped once but 2 laps down.
He won 3 straight outdoors. Why doesn’t this get brought up more?
To be fair, they're talking specifically about Supercross. Hence McGrath being considered the "all-time" great when he's sitting next to the actual GOAT.
@@markg.4952 yeah I hate that shit. Moto is more important to me.
He dominated 3 years straight !
That's a Real Motocross Champion right there,winning Outdoor National Titles.
Because he didn't beat the top dog to take it he won the first two without the best Motocross rider at the time Kroc blew his shoulder out and then the Webb debacle in 18
Hope they go back to this topic after this Supercross season. To me following up 22 SX season with the MX title and how he has rode so far in 23 I think this may change some minds.
Rick & Jeremy together is awesomness....
Difference is back then had individual training programs now a lot train together so it Allways going to be closer
Underrated! I don't think they are giving enough credit to those he is riding with. Theses guys he's been racing with hard just as fast on any given race day. Makes it hard to dominate.
I love this conversation
Now if we shift the conversation to outdoors he is no doubt an all timer
Here after Tomac took the 2022 Supercross AND Motocross Title in the same year. Tomac an all time Great? Not even debatable
tomac dominated 15-19 and stil lost the championships.
Not really from 2015-2017 he only really had the dominant run in the 15 nationals and 17 SX as outside of that he was distant 3rd behind KRoc and RD5 however his SX career from 2018-19 can best be described as dominant but failure.
Top 5 Best all time... 1 The goat RC, 2 McGrath, 3 stew, 4 tomac, 5 villo (just my humble opinion)
Well you look at Stew, if you’re going by championships, for how many wins and high regards we view him on. RV,RC and RD have more championship. And the point of “ no weirdo races” is exactly what costed James so many championships. His lack of backing off that we loved about his riding was also what costed him too. And no offense to McGrath he’s the king of Supercross but his class isn’t nearly as talented as today (Barcia,Musquin, Sexton, Webb, Roczen, Anderson, And even Brayton all won races in their career with Stewart not being far off a few times which takes talent) , it was the party era where you’d show up hungover at the track and still put on a clinic whereas now we take the raw talent and can refine it and refine the rider. Eli outright speed is that of James Stewart but his stamina is other worldly so you.
Et3 MIGHT have Stew speed outdoors... MAYBE.... but def not indoors. No one does.
I have to disagree with you on the talent level when McGrath was competing/winning. There were way more guys on factory bikes racing against him. Just to name a few Carmichael, Windham, Emig, Greg Albertine(sp?), Doug Henry, David Villumien, Ezra Luck, Mike Larroco, and the list goes on. He raced against man guys with championships who were on fast bikes.
@@jjmoto65 true you got a point there
@@japslapr Yeah, yeah sure... says the black guy. lol
Tomac should be the new goat, he has dominated and dominated for more years than these guys, nothing more than he does not count the problems of his motorcycle or personal
Only reason Tomac wasnt dominant in 2017 and 2018 was he was still recovering and adapting from the 2015 crash. No more hunching of the back.
Tomac has been dominant for the past 5 years. Championships don't equal dominance. He's the guy to beat if you want to win it.
for me et3 is the best rider. he won the race that not necessary for him to get holeshot. usually he is in number 6 or 8 spot at the start but he always work his way to pass them all. he has a tremendous skills so amazing for a rider to have a talent like tomac. no doubt tomac is the all time great rider, thats my opinion. carmicle always got holeshot then win the race tomac is not getting holeshot all the time but win the race by his super skills
watching RC and McGrath shoot the shit about the best that have ever done it feels like such a treat. I'd love to see this crew go on for hours on this topic. (not just Tomac). edit: the description of Dungy sounds like Jeff Stanton to me. never really the fastest, but for those few years he just won.
Tomac is 100% an all time great top 5 for sure even can make a case for top 3
The points system change is what kept tomac from the championships even after winning 10 races. By itself that's 20 points in the championship.
I think Eli performed at such a high level when he was on, Eli expected everything of himself, and when things went bad, he couldn't collect himself because he couldn't forgive himself.
How hard it must have been to win all those SX races and not walk away with titles.
IMO, Eli has just improved mentally this year. He did what champions do, dig deep internally, get honest and change. His whole mindset and demeanor has changed this year.
Yeah great thoughts. There has to be something that deflated him when he had those off nights. Dungey was never a match speed wise but his consistency was off the charts.
to be one of the best of all time, it's not only poidums, win and titles, there is also pure speed, dungey didin't have that, rc yes mc yes rv yes js yes cr yes et yes
I agree with you 100%.... but don't put Chad in that group. I just don't think he had the speed of RC, RV, Stew or RV.
Chad reed was not on their level speed wise
Tomac haters. The original BEAST MODE. ET3
The difference is the talent back in Carmichaels and McGrath time was slim to none and know there're are 5 to 6 guys who can win every night
My top 10 SX Riders
1 Jeremy
2 Carmichael
3 Villopoto
4 Stewart
5 Tomac
6 Dungry
7 Reed
8 Stanton
9 Johnson
10 Hannah
Tomac had more race wins those years than anyone, but out doors he’s an all time great 4years straight champion
I think the cable clutch helps Eli’s riding style a lot. Definitely helped his starts.
McGrath told the blunt truth on Tomac beating his record of 72 Supercross wins. Truth!
Let the 🐐 talk!
Such a mental game
McGrath and Carmichael can comment on Tomacs but the others that have never raced at that level should be ashamed of there comments. He has proved you wrong. Go ET3!
Definitely an all timer
Eli is on top of his program an im not sure if is doing out doors but wow how about is it gonna be nect year when hes more comfortable on the yamaha...how good will he be...
fav comeback of all time? mine is JS7 2014 Toronto
Here is a question tho, When Eli is at full beast mode, is he faster or more dominant than MC, RC, RV, or Stew at their peak?
He’s def on their level at his peak probably better at outdoors than MC and RV but him Vs stew and RC would be nasty. RV would also be up there no doubt
Hes definitely on the Mt. Rushmore along with these GOATS
You guys should do this podcast at least once a month with Carmichael and McGrath.
I think as good as the kawi was that Eli had it still seems like it was inconsistent or had a small window where it worked how he liked .
Which meant some nights 6th was the best the bike was capable of
Or pushing any harder would end in disaster
We see that with Anderson this year on the kawa
I'm sorry but that Yamaha is performing phenomenally for him I've never seen him so comfortable maybe his Geico days he was close
Eli will be the greatest if he wins outdoors this year and herlings races aswell
McGrath is correct when pointing at his head while saying "It's right here". Tomac's mental game has finally caught up to his physical game. He could deny the up and comers for some more time.
6 time champ is not bad if not for the injury that took him out for reedy of the year in 2023 he would have easily been 7 Time Champ with 51 wins over all!!
Back in the day pro riders were riding, racing, partying, drinking beer etc…. Nowadays they are all elite level Athletes trying to gain any inch they can get. It’s a different time and you can’t compare it.
ET should have won 3 SX titles but failed in the most important races of these seasons but he is consistent in terms of wins per seasons. And just imagine the King trainning like the GOAT did since his early 20s, his SX wins record would have been over 100 guaranteed and he would have won 10 straight like the GOAT did in MX but in the main class.
As a non bias opinion the playing field is so stacked compared to Jeremy’s error where there was no competition
I want to see the 7 in this… it would mix this conversation way up
Hmmm don’t b taking anything from Tomac. He’s more fluid but pulls out some incredible speed when needed . Last year his outdoor speed was unbelievable = to Stewart at times. His indoor he’s beaten 2 supercross champions and some real contenders. The 4 to 10 th are all fast guys which back in the day it may only be top 4. So because the field is faster ELi not as impressive hmmmm. I think it shows more credit to him. He has took the lead in points while all the champion and Roxen were contenders. He’s also competing over longer period of time winning races. Eli is capable of 3 more seasons but can he take McGrath? It will be tough with Ferandis, and the 250 guy &!sexteen going chip away at wins. 28 wins over possible 55 races. If anyone can do it Eli strengths, speed, endurance, doesn’t get injured nor DNF, mental toughness, his weekness starts and hes improving that’s but does he desire all time wins idk.
Tomac killing it on many levels.
Leave Weeb out of everything. A guy who cannot ride any other 450 brand, cannot ride outdoors, and sucks in SX whoops is not impressive to me.
Look at the riders Eli is going up against, there's more than ten champions in the 450 class for the last four years..
rc is right with his question about dungey, he was on the podium every time but he wasn't the best, rv was definitely better
ET3 is a GOAT....PERIOD!!!
RC playing devil's advocate. He's been watching Joe Rogan interviews. lol
Honestly, RC was the best interview, storyteller, and debater from this podcast. Still is such a humble guy too.
Et kinda reminds me of james stewart besides the crashes careers in 450 sx are neck and neck..hes deff an all timer
What i remember watching mcgrath, rc, steward. Rv etc. Those guys would hang it out there. Checkers or wreckers. They found another gear. We would see that from eli sometimes now and then but others he would be back in the pack. So yeah his stats snuck up!
Eli is in his own world I hope he does another full year I don’t understand why he’d hang it up after supercross but he’s in charge of it so whatever he does I know he will be classy on his exit
Hate to put it on a MFR but think of all the DNF's Tomac had on the Kawi. He usually could overcome one but I think several years he had more than one.
I do remember Jeremy & Ricky dominating, but was the competition less than Eli's competition or was Jeremy, Ricky etc just that much better?
I kinda disagree with how they look at Tomac cause if we're talking Sx and Mx Tomac had 3 years of domination in a row in Mx, yea he didn't win Championship in Sx a few years even tho he won more then anyone else but if you put mx and sx together in 450 class he has 5 championships sooo....
Plus there talking about McGrath and Carmichaels dominating seasons but let's be real the field was no where near as stacked with talent in those years as it is now so the championship is alot harder to win now then in those years, back then there was 3 riders that dominated, Js7 being the fastest out of the 3 then Carmichael being in a league of his own until js7 came in the picture and then 3rd Reed and he was good but not as good as Js7 and RC4 so you can't really debate in that sense, just my thoughts!
People say that the Kawi is a capable bike and they are right, but Tomac never looked as comfortable as he does on the Yamaha when he was on kawi. He also has never looked better on a bike than he did in the first 3 outdoors races of 2015. He was on a level in 2015 that I don't think we will see again from anyone for a long time
C'mon guys, let eachother talk. Jesus, everyone talking over eachother and interrupting one another.
So it's cause he doesn't have titles BUT LISTEN he is gonna be the second most winning rider of all time, so yes it makes him better than everyone but who #1 is PERIOD
I always say it like this..... If your life is on the line, and you have to pick one guy to win a race to save your life, between those top guys they are talking about. Anyone with knowledge of the sport is picking Tomac over dungey, reed, maybe jeremy, but its hard to say with him becasue of the era difference. I think the only people i would consider betting on over tomac are RV, RC and maybge stewart.
Saying Tomac isn't viewed as an all-timer because he didn't close out championships for 6 straight seasons the way McGrath did is like saying Lebron isn't an all-timer because he didn't close out every year with a title the same way Bill Russell & the Celtics did in the 1950s and 1960s. The level of competition has increased by so much, a guy at the top of their respective sport these days have many other athletes that are essentially on the same level as them. Therefore, it is virtually impossible for even the best athletes to be as dominant as the legends of yesteryear.
Think about it, McGrath had to "close out" titles against guys like Ezra Lusk and Mike LaRocco. No disrespect to those guys, they were great riders, but it just isn't the same as Tomac having to deal with Villopoto and Dungey early in his career, and then Roczen, Webb etc. later on. Every sport gets more competitive and even as time progresses, thus it gets more and more difficult for one individual athlete to absolutely dominate.
This reality is also why I believe Villopoto is the most dominant Supercross rider of all time. He won 4 straight titles and 40+ races against 3 other undisputed top 10 riders of all time. No other rider has ever done that, both SX or MX.
Also, they're not even mentioning outdoors. Tomac is undeniably a top-5 MXer of all time, arguably top 3, and has enjoyed far more success than MC in that discipline. But you'd never hear Eli sharing his thoughts on how he never thought of McGrath as "the guy" in motocross.
just because McGrath didn't win until he quit, doesn't mean Eli can't.
It's amazing what happens when there's nobody to race against.
All u guy's ripp.. but love old school 🎒 fellowship
Now what will happen in 2024 with Jett and look at the races in 2023 where he and Chase were blowing the field away they were riding at a different level all season