國外聲樂老師點評 MIRROR《人類群星閃耀時》｜Vocal Coach Reaction to THE FIRST TAKE「Stellar Moments of Humankind」
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- čas přidán 21. 05. 2023
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感謝片主留意到香港歌手，無論老師的點評是好是壊，對他們都是寶貴的意見。
期待日後有更多香港歌手的點評~
證明香港歌手已衝出香港
所以Jeremy會常被人認為唱歌穩定 就係咁解，佢可能冇阿Jer嗰種突如其來嘅澎湃感情，但從唔識佢地嘅人嚟講，呢種唱功係比較受人欣賞
我曾經有廣東話,國話,英文及意大利聲樂訓練. 覺得這是用廣東話唱歌嘅普遍現象,因為廣東話本身咬字要清楚必定發音比較重才咬字清晰,跟唱英文歌及國語歌完全不同,所以這個英語歌唱老師會覺得Jer唱歌咬字重,但另一個廣東話歌唱老師最近評這首歌就會覺得Jeremy要改善咬字.
I had some vocal training in multiple languages before. I believe this is a common phenomenon to sing in Cantonese, because Cantonese itself has to be pronounced firmly to be heard clearly, it is completely different from singing in English, Italian and Mandarin. That’s why this vocal coach thinks that Jer's singing style is a bit rough, while another Cantonese vocal coach commented that Jeremy needs to improve his words articulation.
中
yes. that's true. it is even hard to speak in cantonese. If not prounceing the vowels and consonants clearly, it will have lazy tones.
Singing a song is actually the same as telling a story. Vocal expression of emotion is pretty important to let the audience to have a connection with a singer.
If you have the vocal technique but don’t have the emotion, the audience is going to notice that it’s fake 😅
Yes, that's the point.
但是她说另一位就完全没有这个问题，很干净，都是广东话
@@guoqiwei6199 她覺得乾淨是因為另一位沒有把每個字唱得很完整，就是有「懶音」，有些字的尾音吃掉或者拉長了，造成在廣東話上有不完整的發音，亦令字的意思改變。這個用push and pull技巧的右邊的人雖然令她感覺很怪，但是其實在廣東歌中「咬字」準確更為重要，用這個技巧很好的同時突顯了歌曲的意境和正確的廣東話發音。
其實不難理解，老師又不是知識充足到能夠評論世界所有語言，有不足之處很正常，希望她將來能做充足的準備再評論廣東歌💓
不得不佩服老師的語言天份......🙊
而且很可愛
很充足的評論，good👍🏻
You’re an excellent commentator, concise and on point ❤ I’m definitely subscribing 👍🏻👍🏻
中肯😊有料
Tks Rozette for a great lesson learnt!
Wow very educational. The push pull thingy 👍🏻
A very good teacher regrding vocal skill...cool man
老師點評真的很專業，幾乎每上片就會觀看，好希望聽老師點評動力火車喔😂
還有林憶蓮、李玖哲、A-Lin
我喜歡Jer的歌聲，更喜歡他有感情嘅演繹，但技巧仍有好多需要改進，特別喺每首歌嘅唞氣位，有時會顯得不夠氣或者喺係唔適當嘅位唞氣，希望佢慢慢有所改善，好期待佢每次嘅精彩表演!
勁啊！
因為是廣東話所以 當jer唱 (不了)那需要很用力,因為如果不推音去做 (.不..了~)那就會達不到情緒詞, 這也是為什麼香港很多人都認為jer唱得比較好,因為他的表現方法更有情感
Thank you for your honest opinion and constructive advice, which is beneficial for them. I like the singer with the push/pull habit the most, although I like both of them. As an audience member without any knowledge of singing, I have no problems with his bad habit because I don’t even noticed😅. I like his powerful voice and his passion for singing; his voice always stands out in the group. I hope that he can see this review so that he knows where he can improve.
So true the coach's view. Totally agreed
老师，您辛苦了！！
I dont notice the push and pull before this video. great to know about this. and also bring an important concept of whether a specific vocal arrangement is made by habit or intentionally design.
That is the mother tongue issue. Jeremy comes from Mainland China, his mother tongue is Mandarin instead, he was learning hard Cantonese as 2nd language when he started living in HK when he was small. For people in HK, we feel his Cantonese is not so accurate as others. But for Jer (the push pull one u say), he is typical HK Cantonese and quite focus on the Cantonese pronunciation, that's y give u a feeling of push-pull. Both spends tons of efforts and thanks for your comment anyway.
I find it quite interesting that you've commented on the push pull way of singing with a few Cantonese singers across the channel. A lot of these singers are in fact quite highly regarded for their ability to convey the emotions attached to the lyrics.
I personally believe it's something perhaps unique to the Cantonese language where that push pull may be in fact required in order for the emphasis of the emotions attached to certain words to show. The Cantonese language is very different to Mandarin or English for that matter in that it has 9 tones with 3 of such tones being short entering tones. Where Mandarin flows more smoothly, the Cantonese language place emphasis on pronouncing each individual character or word cleanly and distinctly. While connecting some of these words in a smoother way melodically is used for singing at times, sometimes it would actually come off as flat and with a lack of emotion to the Cantonese ear. So when emphasis and emotion is inserted for certain phrases, it's natural for that push pull to happen in order to speak those characters distinctly.
There had been quite a few western artists in the past that had attempted singing Cantonese songs with a generally western styled vocal, and while these sounded amazing technically, the emotions of the lyrics could not be reflected as such.
I hope that makes sense. I'm by no means an expert in this field, but just find it quite interesting hearing you point out this push pull way of singing with a few Hong Kong singers who all happened to be what the Hong Kongers more generally accepted as the better singer than the ones that don't do this as much.
Either way, thank you for your views and analysis!
希望你們能夠找到這位專業老師點評一下，我們上一代歌星例如：甄妮、鄧麗君、葉麗儀、關淑怡、陳慧嫻、葉蒨文、梅艷芳、林憶蓮、羅文、陳百強、張國榮、盧冠廷、夏韶聲、周啟生等等、讓老師聽聽中文歌曲，顧嘉輝與黃霑的歌曲...上一代的歌聲有特色、也有自己一手包辦創作曲詞。
想細說一下和現今的歌手不夠注重於轉音和發口、何謂唱歌用丹田用肚力。
是不是現代音樂的流行變化就令現今的歌手唱歌韻味就完全有所改變，亦是否以前的音樂和編曲太好的關係，現在好像大部分為何做不到以前那層次，就所以現在捉不到聯繫關係。
希望籍此讓我們能聽到老師分析說出分享更多音樂領域智慧。
dont just listen to modern singers, they dont best represent our beautiful cantonese music. Show her songs from the golden era.
Thank you for pinpointing the different styles of singing. I do really like Jeremy Lau’s way of singing. The pull and push way adds more context, culture and Cantonese language in the way he sings. Overall it enriches the flavor of the song.
Hahahahah, 6:20 this two singer to me are….”fine”😂😂😂😂stay for so long time and squeezed out “ fine”, nice comment. Love teacher’s reaction.
呢位老師真係專業 中肯
我聽左呢首兩三次 （我唔係佢地fans 平時冇聽開佢地既歌）
心裡面都有d疑惑 平時我聽開日文歌
當佢地合唱做和聲 好明顯會聽到兩個聲部
就算男同男合唱 都明顯聽到唔同音域
但呢首歌佢地做和音 唔知點解好似兩把聲混埋一齊 好難明顯聽到兩個聲部
原來係和聲既音域好近 由老師點出 解開疑惑
我都覺得好奇怪 點解會選擇音域咁近既和聲？ 連老師都話少見 都想知道點解會咁鋪排
我係普通聽眾 唔係專業 只要聽得舒服就ok
我係聽唔出jer 既推拉唱法
但係有整體感覺jer 既唱法係比較花巧 相反另一位係比較乾淨
我諗冇咩對錯之分 係睇下聽眾鐘唔鐘意
都多謝老師既點評 真正用專業角度分析
令聽眾可以更多角度了解
某程度上係因為JER 因為JEREMMY 首歌改左風格
因為原本呢隻歌需要好多轉折位置 , 好用力去唱,改左成為呢個風格變左會唔突顯JER既優點,而放大返JEREMMY既優勢
只可以講...好兄弟
正常安排下,JER同JEREMMY應該係可以排唔同KEY去唱,兩個人都係MIRROR入面算闊, 聽得出隻歌編排係有特別為JEREMMY去設計過
其實你應該係誤會左老師意思，「和聲既音域好近」老師完全冇講過呢樣野
因為唔係音域好近，係「相同」音域。
即係唱同一個音，冇和聲，係同調合唱。
因為就算專業歌手 唱2步(2段唔同melody=和音) 都會比較risky 越多步個和音就更豐富但同時更risky 但佢地兩個嘅音色一個bright啲一個平啲 同音咁和出嚟又好次有兩種聲 但又唔會有咁大嘅走音嘅機會 只可以話佢地揀左個比較保守嘅方法
同意老師講
老師的評價是相當中肯的，未至於很優也沒有很差。雖然我覺得那個push pull還好啦，沒有了就是路人甲了，但老師的觀點我能理解。
其实也没什么奇怪的，这位女士本身是vocal的大师，对演唱能力的要求是很高的，看看以前的评论就知道了，但是关键的是她的评价很中肯。她也不是说吝啬夸奖，只是实在是不够优秀而已。
@@keshen297 我沒有覺得奇怪，她說的除了push pull基本上我都同意, 以廣東話為母語的我覺得那個還不算刺耳就是了
@@strawberrycrackertaiwan push pull在另外一位身上就没有，所以只能说是一个不太被老师认可的一个习惯而已。我觉着挺好，很多reaction都是花式夸，粉丝就找认同感，挺没意思的，这种真实感受和技术评论挺好的。
@@strawberrycrackertaiwan 现在看下来，这位女士对周深的评价最高，其次是林俊杰，陶喆早年的和邓紫棋后期的演唱她还是认为不错的，刘宪华的才能是认可的，但是修音这件事她是持保留意见的....看得挺有意思的。
@@keshen297 同意。
其實阿jer 靚聲係真，如果佢改到哩d位，真係更賞心樂事
The coach has been very kind.
using very kind words....hahahaha
it's sweet to have a cantonese subtitle!
呢首香港歌俾老師體驗了新境界，因為歐洲唔會咁唱，世界有好多演繹，而佢地亦唱得好好聽。
老師睇得好開心。
We like it both😍
好中肯
好聽到爆啊
老師把聲 ~~~
唯有繼續努力, 希望再在現場出演一個驚喜給大家,
所以我更喜歡聽Jeremy 嘅歌聲😊
顶流!
I didn’t know that was called “push-pull”, but I have to say I love the way he says. And I feel more passionate about, or emotion the way he sings :D as long as it doesn’t hurt his voice, I’m happy that he will keep singing this way :)
also, this stage is called “The First Take”, which is a very well-known platform in Japan. It’s famous for the one and only one take of recording, and NO editing for the singers’ voice. If they make any mistake, or even get off-pitched. It is what it is. They will play as how it was recorded.
The singer basically walk into the studio at a scheduled time, when they are ready, they will let the band know, then the recording will start. No form practice in the room at all. And when they finish, they will have to leave the room with away. No second take of recording (that’s why it’s called the first take).
So the invited singers will usually practise many many times to perfect their performance before walking on that stage. Some even do special arrangement of the way they perform, instead of singing it in the usual way - for example this was a solo song for then”push-pull” guy, but they arranged it, specially for this stage, and made it a song for both of them.
突然很好奇，这位老师如果听林子祥/屠洪刚的歌，会做什么评价。个人非常喜欢这两位的声音。
Thank you for your sharing !
Thank you for your professional comment!☺😙😘
i am their fans!
so .... really don't care how they sing!!!🥰
just Love them and this song!😜🤪😝
兩位專業嘅演譯，期待參加 American got talents這類節目，就更上一層......
希望老師可以點評一下ANSON LO同欣宜果首青春頌LIVE
你唔好嚇老師啦😂
😂
唔好搞大件事啦🤣
二胡演奏老師可能唔太識
當埸嚇到入醫院都似😂
Love Jeremy Lee ❤
Thank you for your expertise. I really like the singer with the push/pull habit. I don't mind the push/pull at all and actually like it when he does it. A lot of cantopop old-timers does it as well but he brings a fresh touch to this old school way of singing in Cantonese. He definitely stands out in group sing and brings very nice harmony as well. But really appreciate your comment as I can never pin point what I like about his vocal.
Actually I love that push and pull habit from him.
I actually haven't noticed the push-pull, but maybe it's because my 1st time hearing the band?
Suprise they do Mirror or maybe we can do one for Supper Moment 😊just a thought 😉
as a fans of the band and also that guy(Jer) XD i really didnt notice his 'push pull' thing, but after watching this video, i notice that now. But still acceptable to me or maybe it became his 'style' and kind of helping him to emphasis the emotion of the song. I would say there are quite a lot of HK singers do this
這次音軌好像與影片進度有延遲嗎? 我重新載入了幾次還是一樣. 雖然有一點影響觀看感,但能看到老師的中肯評論還是很開心
They are part of a 12 people boy group called Mirror, this song is originally a solo song of Jer (the guy who does the push and pull)
希望有林家謙😍 潛水
Just got to this channel recently, and was wondering if there were any videos done on Ian’s performances? Would be really curious to see that… ❤
😂聽完每句看似讚，但大部分都有but.....
but之前的都是為了but之後的真心話做鋪墊
正常。尤其西方文化，喺評論時都會比較尊重對方，而且會優劣都講，先優後劣，聽嘅人會舒服啲。
等於上司寫考勤報告，情況都是一樣
但我覺得老師講得幾好係fans 既角度係點既
因為專業同fans 既睇法唔同
我就對佢地既歌無咩興趣唔能夠震撼我
粉橘好可爱
Teacher, the most special principle of the first take is, must be lived and only record the first take. So they are great, right? ❤
將評語成為進步嘅意見 ,支持 Mirror
So Waves 🌊🌊🌊 Concert 🎆🎇🍿 is Excellent and Marvelous 👏😄💯
很仔細的觀察和評論，多謝老師！ 老師的專業評論意見對Jer 和Jeremy十分有用。至於老師說有關Jer 的「壞習慣」，可能是因為廣東話有「入」聲，而英文、國語都沒有（其他語言不清楚）。如果Jer 唱得smooth 的話，就會變成好像咬字不清。
有趣的是，粵曲講求咬字清晰，好奇老師聽粵曲後，會否覺得唱粵曲的人也如Jer 的「壞習慣」，如果有，即是這應該是語言的問題；若否，則可能Jer需要改善一下，平衡咬字、感情與唱腔了。我自己本身喜歡Jer的，但有時都會擔心他唱得太用力。希望Jer繼續努力加油！
有興趣想聽老師評論一些懷舊粵語曲，如「上海灘」「舊歡如夢」等，看看是否用廣東話的唱法，會與現代西方流行曲的唱法有很大的分別，讓我們了解了解。
老師她之前最常講的推拉現象是在日本搖滾歌手身上感受到的。
They are 2 of 11 members boys band in Hong Hong named Mirror. They were selected from a singing competition on a TV show in 2018. Not sure if they gotten any singing lesson since then.
It should be a 12 members boy band.
@@edanluisupport8374 sorry I don't have access to all viutv stuff when I am outside of HK. Thanks for ur correction
Agreed the push-pull is not a good way of singing. It’s exhausting for the audience.
我個人認為， Jeremy比阿jer 唱得更好， 當然， mirror 12人各有特點
Actually, most Cantonese have 2-3 sounds in 1 word, they using push-pull is like making some emotion in it, pushing the meaning out. Something like that.😅
Jeremy 係Mirror入面最真實努力去改善自己不足（唔似得某一位口講努力的成員）而且佢的確係有實力，期待老師去進行批評
Mirror裡面每位成員都努力改善自己~~唔係得jeremy~
@@apriljimjim7010 姜同AL有嗎？咁都要有成果
@@apriljimjim7010 係囉，改善咗幾年都仲改緊？ 仲要衰過啱啱出道
I am a fan of the singer with the "push and pull" habit but I really like your comment. There is always room for improvement for singers who truly love singing. Thank you Rozette. @JEREMYxLAU
Mm… love the comments on push pull. I like it because to me it sounds dramatic and interesting, but listening to push pull over extended period of time makes me feel fatigue. It’s like spicy noodles, when it’s too spicy, you feel tired or even numb from it ..
Jeremy把聲好清，但又喺組合入面好突出，係特別既存在
你知唔知咩叫清
你瞒我瞒 by 陈柏宇 please
Can please also comment the songs from Ian Chan @mirror (boy band from Hong Kong)?
拜託 可以做薛之謙的點評嗎🙏
很想看這位老師點評 薛之謙的「天外來物」「陪你去流浪」「高尚」「洛城」等等的歌
I want Hins Cheung，please 🙏🏼
are you gay too? ok you get him!🙃
@Alan Tamm No La！I just want that teacher talk him singing
You want to sleep with Hins Cheung haha
老師可以做一期C Allstar 的《留下來的人》嗎
Push!!! C All Star is really great
C AllStar係冇得輸
b站竟然没有😭
Mirror 裏面我係鍾意Jer, 但係總感覺佢唱歌缺少點感情還是點什麼的，老師說了他其中一個問題吧，太浮誇？他聲音很好聽，可塑性應該好高，加油
Serrini 同小肥既青春頌， 至要點評呀
希望老師點評「公子呀」 ～
可以做一期張敬軒2014演唱會版的酷愛嗎
慢慢來，會安排
@@ClubZeroMedia 腾格尔 的天堂 和 迪玛希的也来please
2個好弱下😂好似成篇文，每句都有野執，辛苦老師啦
你暪我瞞 plzzzz
Thanks for your comment, but most of Cantonese pronunciation is like this.
Only Jer made the push-pull as "outstanding" as this in Hong Kong. LOL. It is just not true at all that singing in Cantonese required that. It is okay for you to defense someone. But please don't drag other HK singers in! It is just over the top.
Jer因為係原唱，佢唱開澎湃嘅版本，所以喺呢個verion佢用返原先版本嘅唱法同佢一直以來放晒嘅style，符合咗一般人嘅期望，所以出到嚟效果點都唔會差。
而jeremy喺訪問中有講佢唔係原唱，而且改咗係 acoustic version ，要點樣加入佢把聲令首歌昇華嘅部分，佢話諗咗好耐，落咗好多功夫。
結論係，其實jer較早出道，觀眾有機會先睇到jer嘅實力，早啲得到觀眾嘅認同，而jeremy比花姐話，所以啲人就有一個根深蒂固嘅印象以為佢唔唱得，係直到去年演唱會左右，觀眾先有機會聽到佢唱live, 逐漸對佢改觀。其實放眼新一代歌手，佢兩位都絕對唔差。
而呢一次，將呢兩位係完全唔同風格嘅歌手擺埋一齊，就有種 chemistry令個合唱好聽咗，有互補不足同互相支持嘅感覺， 各有長短處，但overall我好鍾意呢一個撫慰人心嘅verion🥰🥰🥰
連字幕都係廣東話！！好有心！！！！！
究竟佢會點評林家謙呢，佢既唱腔咁有個人特色😂
可以點評Jer的狂人日記嗎
所以jer 唱歌點解咁油膩 好作狀 一首歌不停重複用拉扯嘅唱法 佢又辛苦 聽嘅都辛苦
佢唱歌係好聽，但聽曬成首真係好攰，我好少聽Jer嘅歌。
香港一般用什么视频软件呀，还是用CZcams比较多
So, if only their fans like it, is it still a good singing performance? 😂
Jer好聽喎 the way he sings makes him special
Like another commenter has mentioned, it’s pretty standard or normal to sing like this in Cantonese. It’s just how the language is. I gave up on cantopop in the last decade because I found their singers generic. It’s actually because of Jer Lau (guy on the right) that I’ve taken an interest in cantopop again, entirely because I love his singing voice, the way he sings and sounds. The bits that you’ve mentioned that he pulls and pushes, I imagine the song would be completely boring if he didn’t do that or the msg of the song wouldn’t be conveyed. No offense to Jeremy, he sounds nice, but he turned it into a love song. This is not a love song, not even close
"it’s pretty standard or normal to sing like this in Cantonese" LOL. It is just not true at all. It is okay for you to defense someone. But please don't drag other HK singers in! It is just over the top.
this is the first take
there is no adit at all
If you really know what kind of show is this
As with other comments, the push and pull notes she criticised on mainly comprises Cantonese words with tone 2, named as a dark rising tone. The singers have to sing in her so-called push and pull way in order to articulate the tone whilst maintaining the melody, otherwise it would become an entirely different word. When I had vocal classes a few years back, my vocal teacher taught me different techniques to cater to different languages in order to bring out their features, not just hitting the melodies. It is clear this teacher has not done enough research on Cantonese.
Only Jer made the push-pull as "outstanding" as this in Hong Kong. LOL. It is just not true at all that singing in Cantonese required that. It is okay for you to defense someone. But please don't drag other HK singers in! It is just over the top.
As she said, Jeremy didn’t do any of that push-pull which means it’s totally possible. Most of the accented notes where Jer did that, it isn’t a tone 2 word at all. I personally find that a bit too heavy as well.
I hope she understands the lyrics of the song. Then she will understand why one of the guys (Jer) will sing like this. ( The push-pull effect)
He is the original singer of this song. He might understand the meaning of the lyrics more.
The one sings clearly without any effects is not the original singer of the song. He might not understand the meaning of the lyrics as much as the original singer.
我想聽老師點評價TWINS LOL
很欣賞老師的品評。老師評論有關Jer的「pull and push」的「壞習慣」，令我想到兩點：
1. 可能因為粵語有「入」聲，與英語在這方面有明顯的差異，故此Jer唱出來感覺比較突兀。
2. 亦因為咬字的不同，令到兩位出現不同效果 -- Jeremy是在唱歌，令人感覺舒服；Jer是在說故事，令人投入他的感情世界。所以，帶著不同期望的聽眾，對兩位會有不同喜好。
這和「入」聲沒多大關係
jers💜💙
The track had been edited, declicked all inhaling noise, and autotuned for sure
The right one has a bad habit because he need to push a lot of air to produce high note, at least this is more often to aware 'Push and pull' on some high note phrasing. It is not smooth and melow.
If mirror fans cannot take criticisms, then what are you doing in this channel?
I have reiterated that mirror has many vocalists not up to standard.
They are probably the standard of a good karaoke singer.
老師不斷帶頭盔
老師個頭都係一個頭盔
@@learningjapanese0603 😂
Jer完全用機能唱歌拉扯唱法，我以前試過講佢，被佢粉絲鬧到無言😂
Teacher has been very kind because it hurts my ear listening to them
老師評論相當客氣🫢
可以安排个张杰的那首星星吗！
作為一個唔識mirror既黎講，我聽過幾次佢地d歌，我覺得Jer把聲其實唔差，如果佢地可以學下唱歌會更加好。