This is a big ask but a couple of my favorite lore CZcamsrs have been trying to figure out why the sun is so insignificant in Elden Ring when it’s so important in alchemy and the various world mythologies that inspired the game’s world. I’d love to see you take a stab at it
You should definitely read this!!! And thanks for the vid. Random thing I realized that I'm surprised none us realized sooner: The White and Red Flesh Mushrooms, are Marika and Radagon's "butterflies/lillies." And, despite not taking the time to explain it (sorry, don't have the time, this is going to be long enough and the comment section isn't the place for a 20 page book report), I'm 100% convinced that Marika was a successful attempt at what the Hornsent were trying to accomplish with the jars. They made a living vessel to house a God or "Kami's"(Japanese divine being that rules over a force of nature or an idea) power or being. Google Shinto-Buddhism. The religions Shrine Maidens (which trust me, is a better translation than Shaman) have the ability to be a vessel for a Kami, which the Kami can use to interact with our mortal plain. Think of it like this: dude wants to communicate with a god for whatever reason (maybe bargain with said god), shrine maiden does ritual that allows the god to enter her body and use it to communicate with dude. Guess what the Shrine Maidens traditional colors are? White and Red. Also, I do believe Marika and Radagon are inspired by Alchemy's Red King and White Queen, Divine Hermaphrodite as well. I also think that this trait is what makes an Empyrean. You need to be capable of being a vessel for the divine (outer god, it's influences, or it's force or idea, ie: the very thing that determines the metaphysics of existence in our world). It's also important to note that just like Elden Ring, the kami can be sealed away, killed or desposed of in various manners, and that force or idea they rule over, can continue to exist. And despite being abandoned by the Greater Will, we still have the Elden Ring and scarlet rot is still a natural phenomenon (And I imagine we are all familiar with the blind swordsmans exploits). Maybe this jar saint thing was an artificial way of producing an empyrean, discovered by the Hornsent (assuming there is a natural way, which might be an inheritable trait for being born of a god who is literally part Elden Ring, lol), similarly to Rykard feeding himself to the snake, only he's more ambitious, as the snake apparently has the ability to act as a vessel for all of the divine that he could seemingly get his hands on. I like to think of Rykard as an aspiring pokemon trainer who wants to catch em' all. And maybe Marika could choose which of her demigods would innately be empyreans (and/or her two fingers, as the game mentions they're choosen by their fingers, and I could totally see Marika's two fingers demanding her to bare a child and Empyrean) and perhaps based on her plans, as we clearly see her using her children as tools. And maybe anybody with the might, and/or desired (by the god) abilities, can be an Elden Lord (it's just a title given by the God that possesses the Elden Ring, and the Elden Lord is essentially the God's choosen protector, lead enforcer, and probable mate). Furthermore, the butterflies and such, don't just symbolize the corresponding being, but also are an indicator of Empyrean status, which would mean that Messmer is an Empyrean, as well as Melina. Important note: I think Messmer and Melina's real mother is the Gloom Eyed Queen, who was likely the god of the era, is definitely associated with snakes and I believe was a snake, that like the ancient dragons, could take on the form of a human. And they were sired by Radagon as a sort of "seduction and betrayal" trick, giving meaning to the Grandam's strumpet allegations, and I think by leaving his emote there, they're trying to tell us that Messmer figured it out, in Bonny Village, potentially with those nearby details. And why when he curses her after his defeat, he corrects himself by referring to her as Marika. And when you see Melina's eye unsealed in the flame o' frenzy ending, here hair turns "back" to black, which she inherited from her mother and is symbolic of the black flame, which I'm fairly confident she intends to shove up our *ss. Pretty sure we were all aware of that last detail, though. And one final detail, there's a hammer that I believe you find in Stormveil Castle, that has the description of being used by a criminal who failed an attempt at rebellion, who also sounds an awful lot like Radagon. I doubted it before the dlc, but am now completely confident that this is what landed Radagon in gaol, where he became jar saint ingredient buddies with Marika, someone else who, for obvious reasons, has a bone to pick with the then "current authorities."
@@ajki9833 good idea. I get vibes like it was maybe once the equivelant of the Erdtree or Crucible. And apparently, the sun is no where to be found in the skies, in game. It makes me wonder if it's been destroyed or if Castle Sol, though ultimately failing in their goal, at least drained the sun of it's color. And that it still gives off light, it's just now transparent or invisible to the naked eye.
@@everberon Random thing I realized that I'm surprised none us realized sooner: The White and Red Flesh Mushrooms, are Marika and Radagon's "butterflies/lillies." And, despite not taking the time to explain it (sorry, don't have the time, this is going to be long enough and the comment section isn't the place for a 20 page book report), I'm 100% convinced that Marika was a successful attempt at what the Hornsent were trying to accomplish with the jars. They made a living vessel to house a God or "Kami's"(Japanese divine being that rules over a force of nature or an idea) power or being. Google Shinto-Buddhism. The religions Shrine Maidens (which trust me, is a better translation than Shaman) have the ability to be a vessel for a Kami, which the Kami can use to interact with our mortal plain. Think of it like this: dude wants to communicate with a god for whatever reason (maybe bargain with said god), shrine maiden does ritual that allows the god to enter her body and use it to communicate with dude. Guess what the Shrine Maidens traditional colors are? White and Red. Also, I do believe Marika and Radagon are inspired by Alchemy's Red King and White Queen, Divine Hermaphrodite as well. I also think that this trait is what makes an Empyrean. You need to be capable of being a vessel for the divine (outer god, it's influences, or it's force or idea, ie: the very thing that determines the metaphysics of existence in our world). It's also important to note that just like Elden Ring, the kami can be sealed away, killed or desposed of in various manners, and that force or idea they rule over, can continue to exist. And despite being abandoned by the Greater Will, we still have the Elden Ring and scarlet rot is still a natural phenomenon (And I imagine we are all familiar with the blind swordsmans exploits). Maybe this jar saint thing was an artificial way of producing an empyrean, discovered by the Hornsent (assuming there is a natural way, which might be an inheritable trait for being born of a god who is literally part Elden Ring, lol), similarly to Rykard feeding himself to the snake, only he's more ambitious, as the snake apparently has the ability to act as a vessel for all of the divine that he could seemingly get his hands on. I like to think of Rykard as an aspiring pokemon trainer who wants to catch em' all. And maybe Marika could choose which of her demigods would innately be empyreans (and/or her two fingers, as the game mentions they're choosen by their fingers, and I could totally see Marika's two fingers demanding her to bare a child and Empyrean) and perhaps based on her plans, as we clearly see her using her children as tools. And maybe anybody with the might, and/or desired (by the god) abilities, can be an Elden Lord (it's just a title given by the God that possesses the Elden Ring, and the Elden Lord is essentially the God's choosen protector, lead enforcer, and probable mate). Furthermore, the butterflies and such, don't just symbolize the corresponding being, but also are an indicator of Empyrean status, which would mean that Messmer is an Empyrean, as well as Melina. Important note: I think Messmer and Melina's real mother is the Gloom Eyed Queen, who was likely the god of the era, is definitely associated with snakes and I believe was a snake, that like the ancient dragons, could take on the form of a human. And they were sired by Radagon as a sort of "seduction and betrayal" trick, giving meaning to the Grandam's strumpet allegations, and I think by leaving his emote there, they're trying to tell us that Messmer figured it out, in Bonny Village, potentially with those nearby details. And why when he curses her after his defeat, he corrects himself by referring to her as Marika. And when you see Melina's eye unsealed in the flame o' frenzy ending, here hair turns "back" to black, which she inherited from her mother and is symbolic of the black flame, which I'm fairly confident she intends to shove up our *ss. Pretty sure we were all aware of that last detail, though. And one final detail, there's a hammer that I believe you find in Stormveil Castle, that has the description of being used by a criminal who failed an attempt at rebellion, who also sounds an awful lot like Radagon. I doubted it before the dlc, but am now completely confident that this is what landed Radagon in gaol, where he became jar saint ingredient buddies with Marika, someone else who, for obvious reasons, has a bone to pick with the then "current authorities."
I'd like to believe that, rather than a cheap mimic created by the Frenzied Flame, that the Three Fingers were one of Metyr's children that learned that the Greater Will abandoned us and was the first thing to go mad because of it.
The Frenzied Flame is a universal constant, no entity created it-- so you're right in that it's most likely the 3 Fingers went insane and summoned it, rather than the Flame creating the 3 Fingers.
@@kingofflames738Yes and no. Even in places most taken by frenzy, like the area in which midras manse sits, there remains matter, energy. It's almost entirely lifeless, but the frenzied flame doesn't make nothing from something. It destroys life, and change, and growth. While that might seem like a distinction without a difference, I do think its fairly important to note.
I'm sure many people have told you this but after you kill Jolan's sister you can go and talk to her before you fight the finger mother and she thanks you for doing it probably because her sister was turned into a puppet
@@jordanm6940it gets even weirder, Jolan has 2 different lines she will say when she confronts you. "You'd Abscond with count yimirs knowledge" and "what have you done? youve wounded yimir and now he wants you dead" I still haven't found what triggers one or the other to play
Weird, Jolan didn't thank me - I got a dialogue option after I killed her sister but before I killed the mother, I chose an option along the lines of "tell her you were attacked," and then Jolan was in denial and basically said, "Speak no more of this!"
@@billywillyjilly she says, "I will say this much. I am in your debt. But I will hear no more. " Personally, I interpreted this as her thanking you for killing her sister, but I could be wrong. Maybe she's in your debt for helping Ymir.
Yuri was a little finger creeper that you can see Ymir holding shortly after meeting him. And then again you can find Ymir in the graveyard mourning them. Saying that Yuri deserved a true mother
@cardgameenjoyer7446 after you get there, talk to him, rest at a grace,move towards him, you'll here saying something as move in his direction (recommend subtles and keeping your fingers away from the jump and action buttons as you can accidentally skip it, I f'ed this up. But he will also be holding a baby finger creeper. When your done talking, go back and rest at the grace again. This time you can find him in the graveyard just outside.
There is extra dialog if you go back and talk Jolan directly after the invasion. I also don't think that Metyr was killed, to me, it looked like it teleported away.
The similarity drawn with Ymir and Aldias quotes are so close its wild to me Ymir: "No matter our efforts, if the roots are rotten, ...then we have little recourse." Aldia: "These are the roots of our world. Men are props on the stage of life, and no matter how tender, how exquisite…A lie will remain a lie." Loved this
"Surely you have seen for yourself… the pain and suffering that fills this world! But fight poison with poison. God is merciful, and so, created the Old One. The Old One will feed upon our souls, and put an end to our tragic realm of existence! ... Can't you see? No one wants to go on." - King Allant of Boletaria, Demon's Souls The trope of a ruined, dysfunctional world has been part of fromsoft since the beginning. The only game that doesn't have it is Sekiro, where it's based on the real world, and the source of corruption is actually the fantasy element of the game (the divine dragon).. by removing the dragon, and purging the supernatural, you cure that corruption.
@@agxryt Yup! I just like to find the characters in each of the games that have similar perspectives and dialogue to compare and contrast. Aldia and Ymir have been one of the most similar when it comes to that imo as well as several others when it comes to FS games. If you know more similar dialogues that stand out to you I’d love to check em out
Another thing that I think is interesting, which may just be me connecting themes between games, is that Metyr's staff lets you cast any spell or incantation. It reminds me of Demon's Souls, that miracles and soul arts in that game are from the same root. Or as Miriel says in games, whether you give him a scroll or a prayerbook, "All things can be conjoined". A twisting staff that allows all magic, because it is the closest to the source we get, of faith, and of the magics the astrologians of old studied.
To mention the record was an interpret of the magnetic field eruptions sensored so far with much much higher frequency ... So, what a black hole maybe could sound if there were a medium and we had ears as big as ring of Saturn.... I mention that why some are wondering about the tubes above her lair... The clue is with help of the water she is in, she feels the wave vibrations of the tubes instead of listening due to the lack of no ears - like a spider
I've seen theories that Metyr was "broken and abandoned" because she was irrepairably wounded by the Nox in their plot to defy the Greater Will, and that the Finfer Slayer Blade is made from her flesh. Also, it is very much possible that the Elden Beast was the GW's attempt to reconnect to the Lands Between and Metyr, however she and her blind Fingers ruined the potency of the Elden Ring throughout the ages
The fingerslayer blade is made from a corpse but I see your point I also think that Metyr was wounded and abandoned because of it; *and that the same extends to the ELDEN RING itslef* When Marika shattered the Ring, the Greater Will abandoned the land and fingers (through Enia) are lying when they say the Greater Will hasn't abandoned the land and it's inhabitants. We are shattered and broken, so yeah we serve no further purpose for the Greater Will of lightless void who created Order. The Three Fingers are likely misbegotten or ''omen'' two Fingers that turned against the Greater Will. After all: ''Foot of a four-toed fowl. Material used for crafting items. In the Lands Between, having three digits is seen as a bad omen. As such, the rarer four-toed fowl's is a gift of great luck indeed.''
@@KitsuneShapeShifter regarding the Three Fingers, they definitely seem to have been driven mad by the suffering in the world, and probably of their mother, and blamed it all on the GW, for creating life in the first place. The yellow flame seem sto be a corrpution of Gold, the essence of active life, as an alchemical fegression from gold to lead, since lead burns with a yellow flame, and the Fingers' goal of burning away everything almost seems like a misreading of the Law of Regression, the forceful attempt to make all things converge instead of allowing the world to correct its course naturally
@@Lazarus_Cardinalis Brilliant! I did not know that lead burns with a yellow flame, sounds awesome After the quest with Ymir I was like ''Oh the Three Fingers are angry at grandpappy for the 'rupture in the sky' (primeval current/lightless void/lightless abyss/darkness). 'He made a mistake', now it makes sense. They're a psycho-Kaathe.'' I think they were born after Metyr got that wound across her belly.
The themes of repeating cycles and microcosms is really prevalent in this quest. Ymir’s twisted sense of duty to become the new mother parallels Miquella’s ascent to godhood, which also parallels Marika’s. His inability to become a “good” mother despite his efforts also parallels Marika, as is his wanton usage of his subjects (Anna and Jolan, even the Tarnished). I’ve read somewhere before that a lot of the questlines in ER is a microcosm of the grand events of the major characters, and Ymir’s seems like the most profound.
It’s also the part that connects every game in the series together the most. Minus the pillary great trees which become great hollows which become petrified great trees in a dreamland outside time and space
The Greater Will was probably like "piece of junk! That's it, I'm switching to cable" and chucked Metyr into the wastebasket known as the Lands Between.
I think it really is a really clever thing that the very opening cutscene of the game outright tells you The Lands Between was abandoned by Greater Will because of the Shattering and the war for power. If you're new you have no clue what that means and probably don't remember it by the time you're a decent way through the game, so to have a new item that also outright states abandonment is cool
I thought Ymir's quest or something else tells us that by the time Marika encountered the fingers, they were all ready cut off from the greater will. Which makes me think that Metyr is pretending everything is fine, and that makes me think that Marika was fooled as well, at least for a while. On a side note, I think the opening cut seen takes place in the Shadow Lands. As all manner of death washes up there (the middle of the lands between). I also think the suppressing tower is directly in the center of the perfectly spaced ring of divine towers. Which leaves a second, not seeping into the ground lake for the plural, Luirnia of the Lakes and puts Faram Azula directy over Bales arena, which looks like the place where Placiduesax's boss arena was ripped from the ground. And that point visibly looks like the direct center of the Lands Between.
Interestingly, a f*cking Wolfenstein quote works here: "He saw perfect patterns. Swallowing branches of a great tree, with the all-knowing space entity at the center gazing upon him. The kid was approaching the apex of the universe, but it all slipped away. And a colossal, black trench opened up, swallowing the colors and the kid couldn't see anything... except for a transdimentional gaping maw swallowing his soul."
Great video, I think you did a wonderful job piecing together all the parts of this quest. One small nitpick I have though: I think the bowl near Gaius’ boss room is a vessel for collecting Scadutree sap rather than the physical form of the Crucible. The Flask of Wondrous Physick item description states that “Basins are placed at the feet of Minor Erdtrees throughout the Lands Between in order to collect their crystallized tears” and with the huge amount of Scadutree fragments found around that basin by Gaius, I think we can safely assume that it serves a similar purpose. If the Crucible DOES have a physical form anywhere in the Shadowlands, I think it’s most likely to be found somewhere in or around the Rauh Ruins. That’s where you can collect spirit calculus, find the largest number of divine beast/bird warriors outside of Enir-Ilim, and also fight Crucible Knight Devonia, whose helmet states that she “quested in search of the Crucible's origin, and departed from the lands of the Erdtree alone.” Again though, just a small nitpick and I don’t think it really impacts the quality of the video anyway. Thanks for covering this questline
We know from the description of the fragments, that the people of the Erdtree collect these blessings, so it could be, but it sounds like the fragments just kinda land wherever and the tears we find in the Land of Shadow, probably came from the Scadu (should probably check the description), and traditionally when you collect tree sap, it's from the trunk, not the distance spanning branches. So I'm gonna assume the basin is for tears.
If we start getting into physical expressions of the Crucible, they're everywhere - Jars, the entirety of Enir-Ilim including the Gate, Graven Masses, the Erdtree, Grafting, the entire process of collecting Runes to grow stronger, etc etc. Crucible "technology' if you will, i.e. the process of collecting life/death to create a new and stronger thing, is everywhere. We of course have reason to believe that the Crucible might have manifested as the physical root-stock of the Erdtree, but it seems just as likely that this was just a concentration of the actual Crucible's power, while the thing itself is more of a primal driving force than something you could actually travel to reach. Devonia might have gone to the place in which its power first became manifest, where it was first worshiped, or where its influence is strongest, but I suspect that any quest to actually reach the 'object' itself is likely misguided, especially at this point in the history.
From Heyttas quest we can infer the greater will caused the division of the one great which I interpret as the big bang which would mean the Greater Will lives outside of the universe. Perhaps the lightless void refers to the nothingness it resides in since all light comes from within the universe where it is not located. I know that's confusing but anything outside of our universe is incomprehensible to us since the universe contains everything from our point of view.
@@everberon I've alway wondered if that specific Hornsent who said these cruel words to the shamans lived long enough to be subject to similar cruelties by Messmer’s crusaders when they invaded. I don’t know how long Hornsent lived but assuming he lived to see the crusade take place, I can only imagine it shifting from him whipping shamans with tooth whips and shoving them in jars like it's an ordinary day to him being captured by the crusaders before enduring days of being beaten and branded by serpent flails while being yelled at with slurs and obscenities by them such as being “Graceless scum” who’s only purpose is to be hunted, dehorned, impaled and burned before being forced to march alongside fellow Hornsent who’ve been rounded up, beaten, branded and dehorned to a furnace golem that has yet to come to life. As the Hornsent are being pushed and crammed inside the golem to the point where’s it’s getting hard to breathe, they are given a speech by a Black Knight captain who says that though they are graceless vermin with no place in the order, their lives will at least serve one purpose: as kindling for their holy crusade. The Hornsent suddenly reminisces on those shamans back in Bonny Village and realizes that he has become a victim to the same cruelties he inflicted on them. However, he has no time to think of his current predicament as the crusaders set the golem aflame and the screams of countless Hornsent and the stench of their burning flesh fill the air as the golem comes to life. So ends the life of one Hornsent among thousands, now used to fuel a lifeless machine of death and murder as it marches onto the battlefield. And so, the crusade continues.
@@HeckYepYeah, you’d think the town would’ve been utterly razed and salted, turned into a forest of rotting, impaled Hornsent corpses by the time we arrive. Maybe they were resilient enough to keep rebuilding it.
@@VictorIV0310considering Rellana demolished Moorth, and there's a furnace golem next to the cathedral between bonny and it, it definitely seems like bonny village was just lucky to make it through the crusade due to convenient placement
Ymir confused me when I did the quest. He was always happy whenever I did his quests. He rewards the player whenever you blow one of those finger whistles in the ruins. He gives us the third map. I assumed he wanted us to kill Metyr. But when the player does that, he gets mad and attacks. I didn't care if he wanted to be the new mother of the finger creepers. I didn't think much of it. I had thought he was only doing it for that baby finger creeper he named Yuri after he lost his own kid. Never ocured to me he wanted to lead anyone. Still, not sure why he got made after I did what he wanted me to do, which was kill Metyr.
In a sense, he was not mad at us, but rather he became a mad man. He was essentially using us to kill Metyr, and take her power for himself to become the Mother of Fingers. Once we were done with his tasks, he manipulated Jolan into attacking us. Then we see how crazy he has become in his little bossfight. He never cared about us, only our ability to do his dirty work. The knowledge he held was merely our incentive. Edit: I forgot to say that he manipulates Jolan against us so that he could rid himself of us, a loose end.
@@vinceangelomanese7001 Doesn't make sense. What makes him think he could kill us if we killed Metyr, a being which he seems to realize is too powerful to kill himself? I guess you could just say "Well, he's crazy" but why would he also send Jolan's sister after us before we even meet Metyr? Is that also part of the test? None of it makes any sense at all.
@@misterdaleboomshears8619 that is a good point to think about. I think it also has to do with what Everberon said about him in the video: dude is so delusional to the point that he's stupid. I never really saw it that way, thanks for giving me another perspective.
Okay, from what i hypothesis Ymir didn’t know that the greater will was gone. He thought that Metyr was the problem, and with her death, Yimr could become a better mother. However, from Metry's boss, soul and boss rewards, nothing can call to the Greater Will. With this major setback comes the horrifying implications for all of Yimr's new fingercreeper children they will all be born broken with no hope. Imagine being pregnant forever and only birthing stillborns. Of course, this would drive Yimr to one logical conclusion: we, the person who killed Yimr, broke something, and killing us will fix his problem
Ymir told us to find it - not to kill it... I guess he was more like playing spider web... Catching us with deep knowledge and the final reward should have been to be obliterated to stardust by her... But we killed the mother of his beloved Yuri so he had to switch the role from a mentor to a mother... Somehow he was granted with her power when we defeated her (why he and not us the looting tarnished is another riddle, but maybe we renounced by instinct automatically xD)... With the power and the knowledge - beyond space - I guess it's a common site effect for human mind to drive mad... Like in the movie event horizon...
Strangely, in Vers 1.00 it is stated that Marika was the one that gave the Crucible Knights their shields and armor, meaning she consciously chose to have them wear the emblems of the Scadutree chalice on their armor. Of course, From has changed the Lore around a lot since Martin mapped it out so who knows how that all fits in now. It is like the Shield of the Guilty and how it once said that it depicted a goddess encoiled in thorns, but now only says it is a maiden. The changes could be trivial or of massive import.
The droning sound in Metyr's second phase is actually similar to (or exactly) the "sound" (sonification of astronomical data) of a black hole. On top of that the microcosm even looks like a black hole and her double laser attack look like they were inspired by the plasma jets made by quasars, a rare class of supermassive black holes. As a space nerd I found all of this very cool
I think there is a piece of environmental storytelling that everyone is missing: Metyr came down upon the lands as a meteor, and the biggest crater in the map is right next to Shaman Village. It could be that Marika saw the opportunity to take revenge in Metyr, and so followed her Fingers. Moreover, Manus Metyr should translate to "Mother of Fingers" or maybe "Mother of Hand" (manus is latin for hand). Nontheless, in Ymir's words, Metyr was corrupted and could not birth a proper Hand. Following is wild speculation: instead of birthing a proper hand, she birthed the Two Fingers that bring Order and the Three Fingers that bring Chaos. Separating the two opposites indeed resulted in a world that can never truly recover. Miquella, while being the most terryfing of tyrants, might still be onto something.
A little problem with that is the timeline. Metyr is the first that came down. Then the Elden Beast as the Elden Ring. Then the dragons with Placidisax became the very first Elden Lords. Then thousands if not even millions of years passed before we come to Marika. So the crater was already there when everything in the Shadowlands happened.
Everything about Metyr is peak cosmic horror. It's abstract appearance, the strange location it's in, the uncanny music, the uncertainty of its death animation, so on. Things that inevitably DO mean something, and have a purpose, but such things are ultimately forever beyond our comprehension.
Enia beliefs that the greater will abandoned the lands between during the shattering which is also the same time the shadowlands where split and metyr lost contact to her children.
something that concerns me is that I'm not sure if Metyr died, clearly she didn't vanish like other bosses, she created that sort of wormhole and left, like the ones Astel uses in his fight, maybe we just sent her back to wherever she came from, will she return? I hope not
I do want to make a note about what you said at 47:39 she isn't actually dead as if you notice she falls over then she disappears into her microcosm going off to who knows where to recover. Also her being broken seems to come from the massive wound in her belly where she births fingercreepers something wounded her which caused her to stop making two fingers.
Fun fact about the metyr second phase music, the low droning is actually the recording nasa did of a black hole. (Or is maybe a sound made to replicate or be similar to it.) it’s especially interesting when you look at the microcosm attacks, which look particularly like black holes.
With the additional context from Ymir and Metyr, I think it’s worth reexamining the Fallingstar Beasts and Astel. Both Metyr and the Elden Beast were sent to TLB by the Greater Will upon falling stars. Isn’t there an interesting parallel between them and the malformed stars that have fallen across the land? The key difference is that the Elden Beast and Metyr seem much more ancient than the other meteoric bosses. My interpretation is that the Greater Will is trying to reestablish its presence in the Lands Between, but for some reason is unable to. The weakness and corruption at the roots of the world that Ymir describes goes higher still than Metyr: Even the Greater Will is bent and broken.
I wonder if It could actually be even more dire than that: What if the Greater Will is actually dead, and the fallingstar beasts and Astel entities are essentially mindless monsters born from its "corpse" (ie from the lightless abyss that is its being). Perhaps the Shattering was such a cataclysmic event for its being that it, the very concept of Order made manifest, could no longer maintain its own existence... the reverberations from shattering a "microcosm" of its being (ie the Elden Ring upon the world upon which the game takes place) echoing into the macrocosm of its totality... causing the Greater Will as a whole to shatter and become a dead void of aimless potential and cosmic horrors (such as Astel and the like). There is something quite poetic, after all, about a game thematically meditating so heavily upon existentialism for it to, in a very literal way, channel Nietzsche: "God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?" Of course, that is being quite dramatic, but if it is not dead, it could very well be that the sheer danger that the Shattering represents for the Greater Will that causes it to withdraw its influence and flee from the Lands Between, cutting off all contact.
@@ramoraid chances are that the face the omen fear is also the fell god, which god do we know that has sun like iconography and eyes? Is there a chance that the sun stopped shinning in the lands between the day the golden prince was eclypsed by the carian plotting with the moon? The erd tree is practically an erd tree ioncantation that wont let anyone normal die extreme regen. fun thoughts you inspired.
Heres some facts I found regarding this questline. 1. when metyr dies, her microcosm i.e. black hole/portal sucks her up and shes gone. no other enemy in elden ring dies with way. theres heavy significance in this! 2. her soundtrack in phase 2 is reminisent of the 1st sounds of a black hole in space 3 her gash was formed by the nox who wanted to make their own lord, the greater will/or metyr herself didnt like this so she summoned astels to destory all 3 night cities 4. elden ring lore is the best 10/10 video, subbed!
Since a bunch of folks love fantasy but won't play it, I'm so glad the writing holds up so that fans like you get to bring out the conversation. As a ASOI&F fan, I relish seeing Elden Ring make it's way through.
One of the most interesting loose ends in elden ring to me now is that the two fingers in Roundtable hold are still alive and seemingly the only set of two fingers still alive.
47:40 We didn't actually kill Metyr, her "Death" Animation is her teleporting somewhere else, the Black Hole growing in size as Metyr disappears is supposed to represent that
One small correction. The Tarnished does NOT kill Metyr. The Mother of Fingers escapes into her microcosm at the end of the fight. The transgression is not of murder but that we caused Metyr to abandon us as the Greater Will abandoned her. I have a theory that when the fingers commune with “The Greater Will” that they are in fact deferring to Metyr who has been waiting for signs from the Greater Will. The fingers have been receiving their orders from Metyr all this time not The Greater Will. Metyr was just winging it on what she thinks what the Greater Will wants. This is the greatest folly and deceit of the gods.
It's abandonment. That's Ymir's hangup. The fingers were abandoned by their mother, Metyr. Metyr was abandoned by the Greater Will. The entire world was abandoned by Marika. All of the problems come from when the parent leaves the child. Thats why he thinks he can do it better. Because he knows he would never abandon his children. Even if, in Yuri's death, he may have felt abandoned himself. The story of a man so broken that instead of fixing himself, he tried to fix the universe.
That crucible and the scadutree bowl observation was mind blowing. I also noticed that Ymir’s headpiece was meant to look like metyr’s face, this might be unintentional, but right where her eye should be on said head piece was empty, maybe implying she no longer can speak to the greater will? Anyways. Phenomenal video.
This is highly speculative but I believe the Elden Beast arena indicates that the giant phantom trees are each their own universe, so maybe the Greater Will is trying in vain to find a universe under it's control that isn't yet broken
Shaman village is one of my favorite locations , it gives This cold vibe it’s almost creepy .. I wish we had a secret ultimate boss there at night ( it also just hit me watching this ) maybe when merrika came back to the village it was destroyed and terrible looking .. the flowers were dead and the sky above was dark,, maybe she planted the tree to bring the village ( somewhat back to life lol) it gave her some type of comfort for her grandmother and peoples sake
This also is linked with what Gideon said to us. "Queen Marika has high hopes for us, that we continue to struggle onto eternity". The people of the LB are alone and must find meaning for themselves from within, not from external sources. this is also related to the "end of knowledge" and "the end that should not be". I think Gideon also got a glimpse of the knowledge we got from Count Ymir, only from either Radagon, or Marika or even his investigations into the fingers (he says the fingers have long lost their purpose). In his case and his knowledge seems more incomplete than ours. He gave up on hope, add that with the fact that he doesn't think it's possible to kill a god/Elden Beast and he has succumbed to despair, doomer style.
The biggest curve ball of them all, right here. I think the next big question is whether or not the Elden Beast is still communicating with the Greater Will or if it's in the same boat as the Fingers. I get the impression that Placidusax controlled the Elden Ring before Marika and probably became the Elden Lord of the Greater Will upon discovering it. At some point after Placidusax realized that no new messages were coming from the Greater Will and that's why he felt abandoned. I would like to see a timeline video as I still have many questions as to the placement of various events. Like at what point did the Gloam-Eyed Queen battle Marika? And when did Marika remove the Rune of Death from the Elden Ring? I could see her removing it as soon as she obtained the Elden Ring and founded the Golden Order but if that's the case, how was she able to wage war? What's the point of fighting a war if your enemies will never truly die? Unless they somehow weren't influenced by the removal of the Rune and could still die?
My crack pot theory is that GEQ was the god of Placidussax, Marika seduced her as Radagon, betrayed her and stole the Elden Ring. Melina and Messmer are cursed by GEQ (it isnt something new for Marika's children).
Enia states that the Rune of Death was "plucked from the Elden Ring at the establishment of the Golden Order," so we know that the Golden Order truly began the moment that Marika removed Death from TLB. I'd hazard a guess that all of her warring and conquest happened beforehand; like you mentioned, war doesn't matter if your enemies can't die. So Marika probably established her dominion over TLB through war with the various factions, and once she'd done that she officially began the Golden Order by removing the Rune of Death. My major question about the timeline is, when was Metyr abandoned by the Greater Will? If the theory about the Nox wounding her and being banished underground as punishment is true, was it that wound that made the Greater Will cease contact? And again - *when* did that happen? We know that Placidusax was Elden Lord in an age long ago, and we can see that the Elden Ring existed then. What if the events that caused Placidusax's consort to "flee" was the Nox wounding Metyr? If Metyr's wounding and abandonment by the Greater Will was what caused the downfall of Placidusax's age... then Metyr, the Two Fingers, and the Elden Beast were either guiding Marika with severely outdated orders or just outright lying to her about where her orders were coming from. In my opinion, the latter would be the best storytelling. The entirety of the Golden Order founded upon a massive hill of lies and false "divine" wisdom. Maybe that's what Marika found when she "search[ed] the depths of the Golden Order." Maybe she orchestrated everything - Night of Black Knives, the Shattering, all of it - in order to give TLB the chance to live a true life, whether with or without an Outer God at the helm.
@@ramoraid not really, how does it conflict with the hornsent civilization, since we dont even have a clue how GEQ even looked like? And we dont even know much about the ancient civilization that built Rauh, besides that they are long gone with no real traces left.
@@angeltzepesh1 The Rauh and the knowledge gleam from their relics inspire the hornsent admiration of spirits. The hornsent went on an inquisition on mydra because the flame of frenzy completely kills spirits. Spirit ash is rauh and hornsent derive item the current iteration was built upon this two civilizations knowledge. So yes there is some friction in your theory. The GEQ defeat either happen after Marika went into the gates but before messmer crusade or right before she went into the the gates.
there is also a scen with Ymir visiting yuris grave and you can also talk about Anna with Jolana if you talk to her after defeating her sister and going back out.
"Humanity, is a mess. The Gods, are a mess. And The Outer Gods are a mess as well. What is someone to do in that situation?" *MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD!!*
@@user-ku8yi5to4f now I'm mentally picturing the player character at the end of the game with the flaming ball head playing soccer like Messi against Midra, and I can't stop giggling
Everyone assumes or thinks the Greater Will is an Outer God. It is not. It isn’t the God of one Element or Concept like the God of Rot or the Fell Flame nor the Formless Mother. If anything, It is an Elder God. A Titan. It is both Order and Chaos, both Life and Death. Or even Both light and void. It’s more similar in nature to the concept of the Holy Spirit, an aspect of the Triumvirate of Christianity. The Greater Will is more similar to that than any Outer God. In fact I think Outer Gods are all fragments of the Greater Will. Separated aspects. I think the Greater Will is the Original First Mind of the Great Oneness that was first. A perfect self aware void. Existing outside time and space, but a part of all. A living paradox and singularity. I think when the Rupture happened, or the Schism, or the Big Bang? It made the Greater Will less than it once was, but in exchange it was no longer alone, and the universe and all life was born. The Primeval Current is the same as the Crucible. An infinite well of power. Infinite possibilities. It’s from this that all life came. And from the Greater Will all souls came. And when Marika Took death from the world? It was the same Sin as Gwyn Linking the Fire. An artificial age of immortality. Death feeds life. Life feeds off of death. Both physical energy wise, but also spiritually. It allows the souls to return to the source with all their life’s experiences and knowledge given up to the source. Or the Greater Will. And in return It can reincarnate the souls when and if wanted. Marika broke a natural cycle and source of strength and growth to both The Great Tree, the Crucible, and the Greater Will. The Great Tree was two trees twining into the sky like a double helix. One tree was Dark, Chaos, Death. The other light, birth, order, life. Marika caused a split in nature and the Trees. The Life side became the Erd Tree. The Dark is the Scadutree. This is why you are Born from the Erdtree, and all death ends up washing upon the Scadutree. Where once things were naturally in balance, now there is imbalance. All for the sake of Immortality. I think this was both Marikas and Metyrs Will, not the will of the Greater Will. Just like Oneness came first, the Great Tree was First. Then a schism occurred. And the very nature of things changed. The Crucible is similar to The Elden Ring and the Golden Order. They all are multidimensional and transcendental. They are symbols, power, laws, Schools of Thought, an Age, and a psychical object or being. They are states of mind and being, laws that govern the world, personal philosophies, and both literal and symbolic objects.
When i first found the shaman village i cried for some good minutes, and the main trigger for that was the line "only the kindness of gold, without Order" from the minir erdtree incantation, so yeah, I get it, it saddens me too, a LOT
Random thing I realized that I'm surprised none of us realized sooner: The White and Red Flesh Mushrooms, are Marika and Radagon's "butterflies/lillies." And, despite not taking the time to explain it (sorry, don't have the time, this is going to be long enough and the comment section isn't the place for a 20 page book report), I'm 100% convinced that Marika was a successful attempt at what the Hornsent were trying to accomplish with the jars. They made a living vessel to house a God or "Kami's"(Japanese divine being that rules over a force of nature or an idea) power or being. Google Shinto-Buddhism. The religions Shrine Maidens (which trust me, is a better translation than Shaman) have the ability to be a vessel for a Kami, which the Kami can use to interact with our mortal plain. Think of it like this: dude wants to communicate with a god for whatever reason (maybe bargain with said god), shrine maiden does ritual that allows the god to enter her body and use it to communicate with dude. Guess what the Shrine Maidens traditional colors are? White and Red. Also, I do believe Marika and Radagon are inspired by Alchemy's Red King and White Queen, Divine Hermaphrodite as well. I also think that this trait is what makes an Empyrean. You need to be capable of being a vessel for the divine (outer god, it's influences, or it's force or idea, ie: the very thing that determines the metaphysics of existence in our world). It's also important to note that just like Elden Ring, the kami can be sealed away, killed or desposed of in various manners, and that force or idea they rule over, can continue to exist. And despite being abandoned by the Greater Will, we still have the Elden Ring and scarlet rot is still a natural phenomenon (And I imagine we are all familiar with the blind swordsmans exploits). Maybe this jar saint thing was an artificial way of producing an empyrean, discovered by the Hornsent (assuming there is a natural way, which might be an inheritable trait for being born of a god who is literally part Elden Ring, lol), similarly to Rykard feeding himself to the snake, only he's more ambitious, as the snake apparently has the ability to act as a vessel for all of the divine that he could seemingly get his hands on. I like to think of Rykard as an aspiring pokemon trainer who wants to catch em' all. And maybe Marika could choose which of her demigods would innately be empyreans (and/or her two fingers, as the game mentions they're choosen by their fingers, and I could totally see Marika's two fingers demanding her to bare a child and Empyrean) and perhaps based on her plans, as we clearly see her using her children as tools. And maybe anybody with the might, and/or desired (by the god) abilities, can be an Elden Lord (it's just a title given by the God that possesses the Elden Ring, and the Elden Lord is essentially the God's choosen protector, lead enforcer, and probable mate). Furthermore, the butterflies and such, don't just symbolize the corresponding being, but also are an indicator of Empyrean status, which would mean that Messmer is an Empyrean, as well as Melina. Important note: I think Messmer and Melina's real mother is the Gloom Eyed Queen, who was likely the god of the era, is definitely associated with snakes and I believe was a snake, that like the ancient dragons, could take on the form of a human. And they were sired by Radagon as a sort of "seduction and betrayal" trick, giving meaning to the Grandam's strumpet allegations, and I think by leaving his emote there, they're trying to tell us that Messmer figured it out, in Bonny Village, potentially with those nearby details. And why when he curses her after his defeat, he corrects himself by referring to her as Marika. And when you see Melina's eye unsealed in the flame o' frenzy ending, here hair turns "back" to black, which she inherited from her mother and is symbolic of the black flame, which I'm fairly confident she intends to shove up our *ss. Pretty sure we were all aware of that last detail, though. And one final detail, there's a hammer that I believe you find in Stormveil Castle, that has the description of being used by a criminal who failed an attempt at rebellion, who also sounds an awful lot like Radagon. I doubted it before the dlc, but am now completely confident that this is what landed Radagon in gaol, where he became jar saint ingredient buddies with Marika, someone else who, for obvious reasons, has a bone to pick with the then "current authorities." Absolute last thing. The term Mesmerize, which is essentially a word for extreme charming, originates from a German man who's surname is Messmer. It makes me think that Miquella's rune, might have originally belonged to Messmer. That or it's a hell of a coincidence, especially for a Fromsoft.
Your not the only one to know about the Shinto-Buddhist FS angle its pretty common knowledge, i just wish they would get better translators and storytellers.
Something if interest is also the second remembrance reward: the Gazing Finger. Surprisingly, its the ash of war that has the most interesting dialogue. Kowtower's Resentment: "Skill performed as a violent bow using a finger's foremost protrusion. Resentment builds as it is forced to bow, making it explode with anger. Hold button down to further increase resentment." Kowtow means "to act in a subservient manner" or "kneel or bow ones head to the floor in worship or submission. So why who was it kowtowing to, and why the resentment? It could be thought to be Marika, but I doubt it. I think the answer lies in the other item description, which makes reference to it being the *first* star sent from the Greater Will. Now who is the second? The Elden Beast. And what is the Elden Beast? It was the vassal beast of the Greater Will and living incarnation of the concept of Order. This would imply that the Greater Will sent the Elden Beast to enact and carry out its will. This means it would no longer need to send out messages for the fingers and Metyr, as the Elden Beast is the living incarnation of the the Greater Will's Order, a Vassal. A vassal is someone that rules a place in the stead of a higher authority. So, Metyr is no longer needed, and would resent the fact it would have to kowtow to the Elden Beast. On an even wilder note, we see a massive wound on Metyr. We know there is a special weapon that can harm the Fingers: the Finger Slayer blade. The hidden treasure of the Eternal City of Nokron; a blade said to have been born of a corpse. This blood-drenched fetish is proof of the high treason committed by the Eternal City and symbolizes its downfall. Cannot be wielded by those without a fate, but is said to be able to harm the Greater Will and its vassals. Perhaps it was this wounding that caused the Greater Will to send the Elden Beast down to the Lands Between.
It's less surprising that I'm still finding random ER CZcamsrs, and more surprising that each one seems to be more and more impressive. Keep up the good work. 👌
I didn't realize how deep this questline went when I first did it. This video really moved me and makes complete sense considering the explanation provided
fyi, just so you know - once you reload the area while ymir is holding yuri in his hands, he is gone from the throne and went to the graveyard, sitting by yuri's gravestone and mourning him.
I take the rupture Ymir talks about as being the same/confirmation of the fractures Hyetta tells us about. I don't really see that part as being the primeval current, in and of itself, but maybe the current flows from these fractures?
1:45 I describe the sensation as being in a world, vs being an observer of the world. We can know the sordid details of game of thrones characters, but don't get to know that stuff about like, the local senator. In elden ring our potential for understanding resembles in a way our limited awareness irl. It's a long way to describe how it provides it's unique flavor of immersion
Yuri is definitely a human child, or at least the original one. The fingercreeper Ymir holds is a replacement so to speak. Ymir is a Glintstone sorcerer who dabbles in Primeval... stuff, so he looks at the night and, combining with his grief, "found" a fingercreeper and takes care of it like Yuri. Perhaps somewhere in this obsessive quest, he also got in this head the idea of becoming a mother (in the sense that is explained in this questline a caretaker, nurturer).
All of these games have always blown my mind. With almost no answers everyone interprets things their own way. It feels now that we are at least beginning to ask the right questions. Inspiring video all around. Thank you
I have not seen a single person or video mention this but I wore Yura’s ronin helm for my build and Ymir gave me unique dialogue believing i was Yura. I don’t recall what he said but he seemed close to the character. gotta be relevant.
Aside from sending the Elden Beast and punishing the Nox later on, the Greater Will seems to have had no further input in the happenings of the Lands Between. Meaning all the suffering and persecution done under the Golden Order was based on a lie, on the machinations of Marika and Metyr?
@@VictorIV0310the two fingers were the ones begin the mess after erdtree order came to complete power over the lands between. Looking at the transition from erdtree order to golden order it makes it very clear that Radagon was ursuper with the help of the two fingers and elden beast. This is very notable in the way erdtree incantations use faith but radagon and golden order fundamentalist incantations require intelligence as well as faith.
Miyazaki: --and then nothing mattered and everybody went crazy and died. Isn't that SO mind-blowing and original! Me: Uh... DS, DS2 and DS3: *sweating nervously*
@@bmocbruhistotle339 The DLC butchered the story; and I'll explain why. It's really very very simple: Miquella being capable of brainwashing mere mortals? Perfectly fine. When you introduce a plot twist where that same demigod can brainwash OTHER demigods in his family? That's where you rawdog your lore by destroying ANY character that Miquella comes in contact with: bc, if he's done it once, HOW would we know he hasn't done it in the past? It doesn't just call into question Malenia's consent and dedication to his "gentler world", it demeans every single demigod's raison d'etre. The entire Shattering is thematically compromised and nothing the demigods did after Miquella's was born matters now, bc there's no way of verifying who else he's brainwashed in the past or present. Characters are defined by their choices, ergo, if we can't objectively verify what choice was the demigods, then they're no longer characters. Just broken toys.
@@IggyTthunders thematically the dlc stripped many characters of their volition. Maybe even Marika but I haven't really came to conclusions about her yet. It makes the characters feel less real and make it feel more like it's "just a video game" where everything is decided by the developers.
@@bmocbruhistotle339 The Marika lore was so thin it's insulting. We still don't know what the hell the numen are; or where they came from; or when they were introduced to the Lands Between; or why. We get one readable that confirmed Marika lived in a tiny ass village, and that's it! Nothing about how she rose to power; or who she formed alliances with; or how she met Godfrey; or who her "affair" was with; or who Mesmer's father or mother is; or when the physical Erd Tree was burned; or who burned it; or when Marika ordered the crusade; or who the gloam-eyed queen was, none of it!!! The hornsent were mean to Marika, so she became a God? That's the big reveal!? The Horn sent are fascinating on paper, but in practice they just hopelessly convolute an already provincial Lands Between and its incoherent timeline. Who the hell are the hornsent? What is their ranking in the pre-Erd Tree pecking order? Are they subordinate to the Beastmen like the Beastmen are distant seconds to the dragons? Do the hornsent serve Placidusax, the first recorded Elden Lord? Why do they just have a Gate of Divinity sitting around? How does it work? Why does it work? What does it do exactly? When Marika was being an asshole, blowtorching their holy capital, why didn't the hornsent just push someone else through that Gate and make a new God to challenge her? Why not make a fucking army? What are the rules, Miyazaki? I'm just so LIVID with the choices that were made for this undercooked abortion of a DLC. Instead of giving us concrete details that would, at least, firm up the timeline, while leaving its thematically trivial mysteries (like the identity of the Storm Lord) trivial, Miyazaki added more clutter; and even MORE plot holes! And, yes, the Gate is a screeching plot hole until it's adequately explained.
36:10 Maybe it was Marika's only choice in the end when she found out there eventually wouldn't be enough grace for everyone. She can't heal everyone, but she can keep them all alive forever.
One thing I realized are the trees at Enir Ilim. They have female bodies growing from them. Much like all life starts as female until its Y chromosome kicks in. What this tells us is that growing from the base of Belurat, all the way up spiraling with their tower, was a tree that blended and produced life. The crucible. Until it was burned down. In Lyndell, there are parts of the city covered in ash. If you look to the ground from the tower in Enir Ilim, you can see ash. Everywhere. Just something to think about.
I think this is the best video ive ever watched regarding elden rings story. Very clear and easy to digest. And if true might just be the saddest thing 😢😢😢
It makes sense now why the frenzied flame was in the 3 Fingers. It was just an extension of Metyr, and in the eyes of shabriri probably just another useless finger creeper so he took control of it. Which is extra cool cuz it’s Shabriri using the very Order that he wishes to destroy to let Chaos take control
the fleeting microcosm spell should require more int than the moon spells due to the nature of what this spell means. EDIT> something else worth mentioning is how Ymir's hat reveals that it represents the greater will and it's lightless abyss, increasing int and arcane. this is important as its showing how gold and golden order have nothing to do with the Greater will, the greater will is more akin to the primeval current, the abyss, the dark of space. perhaps the sword claws and armor of night mentioning " bottomoless black that devours even the light that shines upon it " is more in line with the true nature of the greater will. In true lovecraft fashion the greater will is for sure a real outer god with a clear presence on the other side of that microcosm. whatever it may be, well, its perhaps best if we do not know lest we go mad with the eldritch truth.
The Greater Will might be both the gold and the void of space, or it's a black hole with the gold being its accretion disk and any pulsar emission beams it launches out.
Considering how prevailent the mushroom/parasite theme is, i think marika killed the god of the lands between to seize its runes (the elden ring) but in doing so she left the land open to every scavanger in the cosmos.. The lands between are, themsekves, undead.
No, the original god of the lands between was the crucible and the fell god of fire. It fell for one reason or another and ever since it has been the inspiration for several civilizations. The hornsent was itself heavily inspired by this god. Marika couldn't completely erased it omen children and Godfrey grafting of an animal seems rather ptsd inducing knowing what happened to the shamans.
@@ramoraid the crucible was def the original god, im just wondering if by taking the elden ring (runes/soul) from it marika caused it to fracture into more beings. The frenzied flame was around before marika we know that much, so the fell flame god coyld have also existed butnin a much more copretive way with the original god.
@@cthulhluftagn3812i don't think Marika was the first to cause the fracture of this god, i personally would go with titans or the god placidusax served. The ancient dragons are the perfect embodiment of the crucible aspects but the crucible doesn't explain the time power that resides in their scales.
Why isn’t it considered that the thing that the Nox did that caused their down fall was that they used the finger slayer blade to try and kill the mother of fingers. Injuring her but not killing, but causing enough damage to sever her connection to the outer will. This causing the falling star beasts and mature Astel creatures to begin descending on the lands.
Norive how even after beating metyr, a god level being and a direct decendent of the greater will, you only see "Legend Felled". Her body also leaves in a microcosm. I believe she escaped alive.
When Ymir said that life was born from a rupture far across the skies, I interpreted it as being the rupture between the Greater Will and Frenzied Flame. The Greater Will broke away from the One Great and created life/the universe, while the Frenzied Flame is trying to burn it all down and merge everything back into one entity. This is also represented by the Two Fingers and Three Fingers together creating a whole hand. Maybe the Primeval Current is another name/form of the One Great?
I don’t think the greater will left I believe it gave up on the golden order a long time ago. Leyndells prime was short lived&after that the domino effect started when Godfrey was kicked out of the lands between. The greater will has no biases so it will simply wait for the current order to be replaced by Rot or Blood or the moon or even frenzy.
So you mean to tell me that all the teachings of the Greater Will that we hear of in the game is actually just a millennia-spanning game of telephone starting from what Metyr heard
Very generally, I feel that the Hornsent yearned for the Age of the Crucible, where all life was melded together. Their crude attempts at melding life together led to the Living Jars, where shamans were stuffed in en masse, in the hope that they could create true horned creatures of the Crucible. My belief is that Marika, a simple Shaman at the time, was put into a Jar, probably with a person/Shaman called Radagon. The two melded together successfully, and the Empyrian was created. Perhaps this new 'Marika' was sentient (we know the living jars aren't) and so was crowned an Empyrian. The first successful melding of life, and the first step back to the Crucible. However, Marika and Radagon were literally molded together, but the resulting flesh was labelled 'Marika'. Still, it consisted just as much of Radagon as it did Marika (original Marika). Numen. New Men... Then it appears that this Marika performed some ritual with the base serpent (Eyngyi?) and somehow became a God at the Gate of Divinity. The reason why Marika and Radagon can split is because they're one whole made of two physical beings (that were melded in the jar). The loophole to birthing Empyrians is that if they reproduce together, rather than with a human thus forming demigods, they will birth an Empyrian. The result of two Empyrians 'mating'. So this whole meme of Marika fking herself is untrue while kind of remaining true. The rest of the story speaks for itself. I also think that since all of the Empyrians are afflicted in some way, especially the Omen Twins, this is the step towards the Age of the Crucible that the Hornsent hoped for. Let me know what you think...
The Japanese original is more precise. In Japanese, the word they use for "Shaman" in English, explicitly refers to a "Shrine Maiden", so Shamans are likely not a race, but what female Numen (perhaps a special sub-category gifted with increased spirituality) are referred to as.
I just had an epiphany, what if Marika was never born from any divinity, and instead, the sainthood the hornsent where looking for was actually to create an Empyrian that could harbor a god or divinity
Some theorize that Marika herself is one of, if not the only successful jar saint, meaning she was a shaman who got mixed with a bunch of other things but integrated with them rather than simply congealing into what we see in the jar innards. I really like this reading of yours even more when thinking of Marika as a jar saint who took power under the Hornsent regime and then eradicated them due to the suffering of herself and her people.
Thanks for Watching! I hope you liked this exploration, and let me know if there are other things you'd like me to discuss from the new Elden Ring DLC
This is a big ask but a couple of my favorite lore CZcamsrs have been trying to figure out why the sun is so insignificant in Elden Ring when it’s so important in alchemy and the various world mythologies that inspired the game’s world. I’d love to see you take a stab at it
@@ajki9833 makes me wonder if gold has replaced the sun in importance.
You should definitely read this!!! And thanks for the vid. Random thing I realized that I'm surprised none us realized sooner: The White and Red Flesh Mushrooms, are Marika and Radagon's "butterflies/lillies." And, despite not taking the time to explain it (sorry, don't have the time, this is going to be long enough and the comment section isn't the place for a 20 page book report), I'm 100% convinced that Marika was a successful attempt at what the Hornsent were trying to accomplish with the jars. They made a living vessel to house a God or "Kami's"(Japanese divine being that rules over a force of nature or an idea) power or being. Google Shinto-Buddhism. The religions Shrine Maidens (which trust me, is a better translation than Shaman) have the ability to be a vessel for a Kami, which the Kami can use to interact with our mortal plain. Think of it like this: dude wants to communicate with a god for whatever reason (maybe bargain with said god), shrine maiden does ritual that allows the god to enter her body and use it to communicate with dude. Guess what the Shrine Maidens traditional colors are? White and Red. Also, I do believe Marika and Radagon are inspired by Alchemy's Red King and White Queen, Divine Hermaphrodite as well. I also think that this trait is what makes an Empyrean. You need to be capable of being a vessel for the divine (outer god, it's influences, or it's force or idea, ie: the very thing that determines the metaphysics of existence in our world). It's also important to note that just like Elden Ring, the kami can be sealed away, killed or desposed of in various manners, and that force or idea they rule over, can continue to exist. And despite being abandoned by the Greater Will, we still have the Elden Ring and scarlet rot is still a natural phenomenon (And I imagine we are all familiar with the blind swordsmans exploits). Maybe this jar saint thing was an artificial way of producing an empyrean, discovered by the Hornsent (assuming there is a natural way, which might be an inheritable trait for being born of a god who is literally part Elden Ring, lol), similarly to Rykard feeding himself to the snake, only he's more ambitious, as the snake apparently has the ability to act as a vessel for all of the divine that he could seemingly get his hands on. I like to think of Rykard as an aspiring pokemon trainer who wants to catch em' all. And maybe Marika could choose which of her demigods would innately be empyreans (and/or her two fingers, as the game mentions they're choosen by their fingers, and I could totally see Marika's two fingers demanding her to bare a child and Empyrean) and perhaps based on her plans, as we clearly see her using her children as tools. And maybe anybody with the might, and/or desired (by the god) abilities, can be an Elden Lord (it's just a title given by the God that possesses the Elden Ring, and the Elden Lord is essentially the God's choosen protector, lead enforcer, and probable mate). Furthermore, the butterflies and such, don't just symbolize the corresponding being, but also are an indicator of Empyrean status, which would mean that Messmer is an Empyrean, as well as Melina. Important note: I think Messmer and Melina's real mother is the Gloom Eyed Queen, who was likely the god of the era, is definitely associated with snakes and I believe was a snake, that like the ancient dragons, could take on the form of a human. And they were sired by Radagon as a sort of "seduction and betrayal" trick, giving meaning to the Grandam's strumpet allegations, and I think by leaving his emote there, they're trying to tell us that Messmer figured it out, in Bonny Village, potentially with those nearby details. And why when he curses her after his defeat, he corrects himself by referring to her as Marika. And when you see Melina's eye unsealed in the flame o' frenzy ending, here hair turns "back" to black, which she inherited from her mother and is symbolic of the black flame, which I'm fairly confident she intends to shove up our *ss. Pretty sure we were all aware of that last detail, though. And one final detail, there's a hammer that I believe you find in Stormveil Castle, that has the description of being used by a criminal who failed an attempt at rebellion, who also sounds an awful lot like Radagon. I doubted it before the dlc, but am now completely confident that this is what landed Radagon in gaol, where he became jar saint ingredient buddies with Marika, someone else who, for obvious reasons, has a bone to pick with the then "current authorities."
@@ajki9833 good idea. I get vibes like it was maybe once the equivelant of the Erdtree or Crucible. And apparently, the sun is no where to be found in the skies, in game. It makes me wonder if it's been destroyed or if Castle Sol, though ultimately failing in their goal, at least drained the sun of it's color. And that it still gives off light, it's just now transparent or invisible to the naked eye.
@@everberon Random thing I realized that I'm surprised none us realized sooner: The White and Red Flesh Mushrooms, are Marika and Radagon's "butterflies/lillies." And, despite not taking the time to explain it (sorry, don't have the time, this is going to be long enough and the comment section isn't the place for a 20 page book report), I'm 100% convinced that Marika was a successful attempt at what the Hornsent were trying to accomplish with the jars. They made a living vessel to house a God or "Kami's"(Japanese divine being that rules over a force of nature or an idea) power or being. Google Shinto-Buddhism. The religions Shrine Maidens (which trust me, is a better translation than Shaman) have the ability to be a vessel for a Kami, which the Kami can use to interact with our mortal plain. Think of it like this: dude wants to communicate with a god for whatever reason (maybe bargain with said god), shrine maiden does ritual that allows the god to enter her body and use it to communicate with dude. Guess what the Shrine Maidens traditional colors are? White and Red. Also, I do believe Marika and Radagon are inspired by Alchemy's Red King and White Queen, Divine Hermaphrodite as well. I also think that this trait is what makes an Empyrean. You need to be capable of being a vessel for the divine (outer god, it's influences, or it's force or idea, ie: the very thing that determines the metaphysics of existence in our world). It's also important to note that just like Elden Ring, the kami can be sealed away, killed or desposed of in various manners, and that force or idea they rule over, can continue to exist. And despite being abandoned by the Greater Will, we still have the Elden Ring and scarlet rot is still a natural phenomenon (And I imagine we are all familiar with the blind swordsmans exploits). Maybe this jar saint thing was an artificial way of producing an empyrean, discovered by the Hornsent (assuming there is a natural way, which might be an inheritable trait for being born of a god who is literally part Elden Ring, lol), similarly to Rykard feeding himself to the snake, only he's more ambitious, as the snake apparently has the ability to act as a vessel for all of the divine that he could seemingly get his hands on. I like to think of Rykard as an aspiring pokemon trainer who wants to catch em' all. And maybe Marika could choose which of her demigods would innately be empyreans (and/or her two fingers, as the game mentions they're choosen by their fingers, and I could totally see Marika's two fingers demanding her to bare a child and Empyrean) and perhaps based on her plans, as we clearly see her using her children as tools. And maybe anybody with the might, and/or desired (by the god) abilities, can be an Elden Lord (it's just a title given by the God that possesses the Elden Ring, and the Elden Lord is essentially the God's choosen protector, lead enforcer, and probable mate). Furthermore, the butterflies and such, don't just symbolize the corresponding being, but also are an indicator of Empyrean status, which would mean that Messmer is an Empyrean, as well as Melina. Important note: I think Messmer and Melina's real mother is the Gloom Eyed Queen, who was likely the god of the era, is definitely associated with snakes and I believe was a snake, that like the ancient dragons, could take on the form of a human. And they were sired by Radagon as a sort of "seduction and betrayal" trick, giving meaning to the Grandam's strumpet allegations, and I think by leaving his emote there, they're trying to tell us that Messmer figured it out, in Bonny Village, potentially with those nearby details. And why when he curses her after his defeat, he corrects himself by referring to her as Marika. And when you see Melina's eye unsealed in the flame o' frenzy ending, here hair turns "back" to black, which she inherited from her mother and is symbolic of the black flame, which I'm fairly confident she intends to shove up our *ss. Pretty sure we were all aware of that last detail, though. And one final detail, there's a hammer that I believe you find in Stormveil Castle, that has the description of being used by a criminal who failed an attempt at rebellion, who also sounds an awful lot like Radagon. I doubted it before the dlc, but am now completely confident that this is what landed Radagon in gaol, where he became jar saint ingredient buddies with Marika, someone else who, for obvious reasons, has a bone to pick with the then "current authorities."
I'd like to believe that, rather than a cheap mimic created by the Frenzied Flame, that the Three Fingers were one of Metyr's children that learned that the Greater Will abandoned us and was the first thing to go mad because of it.
The Three Fingers is the only one with the filangies to do the right thing and LET CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD!
@@Leotheleprachaun doesn't it burn it to the ground? As in, no chaos, it's reduced to nothing? Pretty sure that's its whole goal. Erase everything.
The Frenzied Flame is a universal constant, no entity created it-- so you're right in that it's most likely the 3 Fingers went insane and summoned it, rather than the Flame creating the 3 Fingers.
@@kingofflames738Yes and no. Even in places most taken by frenzy, like the area in which midras manse sits, there remains matter, energy. It's almost entirely lifeless, but the frenzied flame doesn't make nothing from something. It destroys life, and change, and growth. While that might seem like a distinction without a difference, I do think its fairly important to note.
@@sibren9874 That's actually a pretty sound theory.
I'm sure many people have told you this but after you kill Jolan's sister you can go and talk to her before you fight the finger mother and she thanks you for doing it probably because her sister was turned into a puppet
Shit like this that makes me regret playing blind
@@jordanm6940it gets even weirder, Jolan has 2 different lines she will say when she confronts you. "You'd Abscond with count yimirs knowledge" and "what have you done? youve wounded yimir and now he wants you dead" I still haven't found what triggers one or the other to play
@@robbylouxmaybe buying all of ymirs spells before finishing the questline?
Weird, Jolan didn't thank me - I got a dialogue option after I killed her sister but before I killed the mother, I chose an option along the lines of "tell her you were attacked," and then Jolan was in denial and basically said, "Speak no more of this!"
@@billywillyjilly she says, "I will say this much. I am in your debt. But I will hear no more. " Personally, I interpreted this as her thanking you for killing her sister, but I could be wrong. Maybe she's in your debt for helping Ymir.
Damn the greater will really did send his daughter to earth and then went out for smokes
More like it had her when it was out for smokes and leave her in a street to continue being missing
It seems the greater will is just a metaphor for the cosmos itself. Like how the splitting of the great one is really just the Big Bang.
@@ghostdreamer7272I like the idea that people are reading way too hard into a natural phenomenon
Gonna get some cosmic milk
Yuri was a little finger creeper that you can see Ymir holding shortly after meeting him. And then again you can find Ymir in the graveyard mourning them. Saying that Yuri deserved a true mother
What?? Where is he holding him?
@@cardgameenjoyer7446 in his chair, he's cradling a particularly small finger creeper. I can't quite remember when I first noticed Yuri.
I think there's a Yuri (fingercreeper) and a Yuri (Boy, human, who passed away) and this coping mechanism might be the catalyst for his madness
Yeah. Completely missed it on my first playthrough.
@cardgameenjoyer7446 after you get there, talk to him, rest at a grace,move towards him, you'll here saying something as move in his direction (recommend subtles and keeping your fingers away from the jump and action buttons as you can accidentally skip it, I f'ed this up. But he will also be holding a baby finger creeper. When your done talking, go back and rest at the grace again. This time you can find him in the graveyard just outside.
I think when Ymir says unhinged to describe Metyr, he means it literally. In other words, Metyr is no longer affixed to the greater will.
There is extra dialog if you go back and talk Jolan directly after the invasion. I also don't think that Metyr was killed, to me, it looked like it teleported away.
The similarity drawn with Ymir and Aldias quotes are so close its wild to me
Ymir: "No matter our efforts, if the roots are rotten, ...then we have little recourse."
Aldia: "These are the roots of our world. Men are props on the stage of life, and no matter how tender, how exquisite…A lie will remain a lie."
Loved this
"Surely you have seen for yourself… the pain and suffering that fills this world! But fight poison with poison. God is merciful, and so, created the Old One. The Old One will feed upon our souls, and put an end to our tragic realm of existence! ... Can't you see? No one wants to go on." - King Allant of Boletaria, Demon's Souls
The trope of a ruined, dysfunctional world has been part of fromsoft since the beginning. The only game that doesn't have it is Sekiro, where it's based on the real world, and the source of corruption is actually the fantasy element of the game (the divine dragon).. by removing the dragon, and purging the supernatural, you cure that corruption.
@@agxryt *hit. I really need to play Demon Souls, and probably the original.
Excellent observation.
@@agxryt Yup! I just like to find the characters in each of the games that have similar perspectives and dialogue to compare and contrast.
Aldia and Ymir have been one of the most similar when it comes to that imo as well as several others when it comes to FS games.
If you know more similar dialogues that stand out to you I’d love to check em out
Yet i find Demon Souls, and Sekiros story and characters so much better written.
Of all the characters who caught a glimpse of the truth. It’s Goldmask that’s the one who maintains hope.
"The Lands Between are a mess, and I just... need to rule it."
-Count Ymir
I saw that Dr. Horrible reference
Another thing that I think is interesting, which may just be me connecting themes between games, is that Metyr's staff lets you cast any spell or incantation.
It reminds me of Demon's Souls, that miracles and soul arts in that game are from the same root. Or as Miriel says in games, whether you give him a scroll or a prayerbook, "All things can be conjoined".
A twisting staff that allows all magic, because it is the closest to the source we get, of faith, and of the magics the astrologians of old studied.
Description of Thop's Barrier also hints at sorcery & incantations having similarities between them
Cool fact, the drone sound used in phase two of the metyr fight is a sample of the irl first recorded black hole sound!
I didn't end up talking about that, and in retrospect, I should have mentioned it. When I found that out from VaatiVidya, I was floored
To mention the record was an interpret of the magnetic field eruptions sensored so far with much much higher frequency ... So, what a black hole maybe could sound if there were a medium and we had ears as big as ring of Saturn.... I mention that why some are wondering about the tubes above her lair... The clue is with help of the water she is in, she feels the wave vibrations of the tubes instead of listening due to the lack of no ears - like a spider
I've seen theories that Metyr was "broken and abandoned" because she was irrepairably wounded by the Nox in their plot to defy the Greater Will, and that the Finfer Slayer Blade is made from her flesh.
Also, it is very much possible that the Elden Beast was the GW's attempt to reconnect to the Lands Between and Metyr, however she and her blind Fingers ruined the potency of the Elden Ring throughout the ages
That's an interesting point. It makes a bit of sense.
The fingerslayer blade is made from a corpse but I see your point
I also think that Metyr was wounded and abandoned because of it; *and that the same extends to the ELDEN RING itslef*
When Marika shattered the Ring, the Greater Will abandoned the land and fingers (through Enia) are lying when they say the Greater Will hasn't abandoned the land and it's inhabitants. We are shattered and broken, so yeah we serve no further purpose for the Greater Will of lightless void who created Order.
The Three Fingers are likely misbegotten or ''omen'' two Fingers that turned against the Greater Will. After all:
''Foot of a four-toed fowl.
Material used for crafting items.
In the Lands Between, having three digits is seen as a bad omen.
As such, the rarer four-toed fowl's is a gift of great luck indeed.''
@@KitsuneShapeShifter it could be the corpse of one of the fingers
@@KitsuneShapeShifter regarding the Three Fingers, they definitely seem to have been driven mad by the suffering in the world, and probably of their mother, and blamed it all on the GW, for creating life in the first place. The yellow flame seem sto be a corrpution of Gold, the essence of active life, as an alchemical fegression from gold to lead, since lead burns with a yellow flame, and the Fingers' goal of burning away everything almost seems like a misreading of the Law of Regression, the forceful attempt to make all things converge instead of allowing the world to correct its course naturally
@@Lazarus_Cardinalis Brilliant! I did not know that lead burns with a yellow flame, sounds awesome
After the quest with Ymir I was like ''Oh the Three Fingers are angry at grandpappy for the 'rupture in the sky' (primeval current/lightless void/lightless abyss/darkness). 'He made a mistake', now it makes sense. They're a psycho-Kaathe.''
I think they were born after Metyr got that wound across her belly.
The themes of repeating cycles and microcosms is really prevalent in this quest. Ymir’s twisted sense of duty to become the new mother parallels Miquella’s ascent to godhood, which also parallels Marika’s. His inability to become a “good” mother despite his efforts also parallels Marika, as is his wanton usage of his subjects (Anna and Jolan, even the Tarnished).
I’ve read somewhere before that a lot of the questlines in ER is a microcosm of the grand events of the major characters, and Ymir’s seems like the most profound.
It’s also the part that connects every game in the series together the most.
Minus the pillary great trees which become great hollows which become petrified great trees in a dreamland outside time and space
0😊
Ah, so Metyr is just a broken satellite 😂
The Greater Will was probably like "piece of junk! That's it, I'm switching to cable" and chucked Metyr into the wastebasket known as the Lands Between.
Broken divine wifi tower
Like the community Xbox meme
I think it really is a really clever thing that the very opening cutscene of the game outright tells you The Lands Between was abandoned by Greater Will because of the Shattering and the war for power. If you're new you have no clue what that means and probably don't remember it by the time you're a decent way through the game, so to have a new item that also outright states abandonment is cool
I thought Ymir's quest or something else tells us that by the time Marika encountered the fingers, they were all ready cut off from the greater will. Which makes me think that Metyr is pretending everything is fine, and that makes me think that Marika was fooled as well, at least for a while. On a side note, I think the opening cut seen takes place in the Shadow Lands. As all manner of death washes up there (the middle of the lands between). I also think the suppressing tower is directly in the center of the perfectly spaced ring of divine towers. Which leaves a second, not seeping into the ground lake for the plural, Luirnia of the Lakes and puts Faram Azula directy over Bales arena, which looks like the place where Placiduesax's boss arena was ripped from the ground. And that point visibly looks like the direct center of the Lands Between.
@@johneverimanne3986Marika finding out that all of this was a lie is probably what made her turn on the order.
Interestingly, a f*cking Wolfenstein quote works here:
"He saw perfect patterns. Swallowing branches of a great tree, with the all-knowing space entity at the center gazing upon him. The kid was approaching the apex of the universe, but it all slipped away. And a colossal, black trench opened up, swallowing the colors and the kid couldn't see anything... except for a transdimentional gaping maw swallowing his soul."
PS: The Erd Tree is a healings spell so powerful we come back to life.
Ah that makes too much sense, and only when it is burned can destined death be reintroduced to the world.
Great video, I think you did a wonderful job piecing together all the parts of this quest. One small nitpick I have though: I think the bowl near Gaius’ boss room is a vessel for collecting Scadutree sap rather than the physical form of the Crucible. The Flask of Wondrous Physick item description states that “Basins are placed at the feet of Minor Erdtrees throughout the Lands Between in order to collect their crystallized tears” and with the huge amount of Scadutree fragments found around that basin by Gaius, I think we can safely assume that it serves a similar purpose. If the Crucible DOES have a physical form anywhere in the Shadowlands, I think it’s most likely to be found somewhere in or around the Rauh Ruins. That’s where you can collect spirit calculus, find the largest number of divine beast/bird warriors outside of Enir-Ilim, and also fight Crucible Knight Devonia, whose helmet states that she “quested in search of the Crucible's origin, and departed from the lands of the Erdtree alone.” Again though, just a small nitpick and I don’t think it really impacts the quality of the video anyway. Thanks for covering this questline
We know from the description of the fragments, that the people of the Erdtree collect these blessings, so it could be, but it sounds like the fragments just kinda land wherever and the tears we find in the Land of Shadow, probably came from the Scadu (should probably check the description), and traditionally when you collect tree sap, it's from the trunk, not the distance spanning branches. So I'm gonna assume the basin is for tears.
If we start getting into physical expressions of the Crucible, they're everywhere - Jars, the entirety of Enir-Ilim including the Gate, Graven Masses, the Erdtree, Grafting, the entire process of collecting Runes to grow stronger, etc etc. Crucible "technology' if you will, i.e. the process of collecting life/death to create a new and stronger thing, is everywhere. We of course have reason to believe that the Crucible might have manifested as the physical root-stock of the Erdtree, but it seems just as likely that this was just a concentration of the actual Crucible's power, while the thing itself is more of a primal driving force than something you could actually travel to reach. Devonia might have gone to the place in which its power first became manifest, where it was first worshiped, or where its influence is strongest, but I suspect that any quest to actually reach the 'object' itself is likely misguided, especially at this point in the history.
The greater will is a lightless void.. that seems important
It's a lightless void thinged with gold
It’s just the cosmos itself, created by the Big Bang
From Heyttas quest we can infer the greater will caused the division of the one great which I interpret as the big bang which would mean the Greater Will lives outside of the universe. Perhaps the lightless void refers to the nothingness it resides in since all light comes from within the universe where it is not located. I know that's confusing but anything outside of our universe is incomprehensible to us since the universe contains everything from our point of view.
When you really think about it, the furnace golems were designed to be Marika and Messmer’s “jars” for the Hornsent.
Woah yeah wait you're completely right!
@@everberon I've alway wondered if that specific Hornsent who said these cruel words to the shamans lived long enough to be subject to similar cruelties by Messmer’s crusaders when they invaded.
I don’t know how long Hornsent lived but assuming he lived to see the crusade take place, I can only imagine it shifting from him whipping shamans with tooth whips and shoving them in jars like it's an ordinary day to him being captured by the crusaders before enduring days of being beaten and branded by serpent flails while being yelled at with slurs and obscenities by them such as being “Graceless scum” who’s only purpose is to be hunted, dehorned, impaled and burned before being forced to march alongside fellow Hornsent who’ve been rounded up, beaten, branded and dehorned to a furnace golem that has yet to come to life.
As the Hornsent are being pushed and crammed inside the golem to the point where’s it’s getting hard to breathe, they are given a speech by a Black Knight captain who says that though they are graceless vermin with no place in the order, their lives will at least serve one purpose: as kindling for their holy crusade.
The Hornsent suddenly reminisces on those shamans back in Bonny Village and realizes that he has become a victim to the same cruelties he inflicted on them.
However, he has no time to think of his current predicament as the crusaders set the golem aflame and the screams of countless Hornsent and the stench of their burning flesh fill the air as the golem comes to life.
So ends the life of one Hornsent among thousands, now used to fuel a lifeless machine of death and murder as it marches onto the battlefield.
And so, the crusade continues.
Yet she never sends one to Bonny Village. The fact that the town is still intact feels like a developer oversight.
@@HeckYepYeah, you’d think the town would’ve been utterly razed and salted, turned into a forest of rotting, impaled Hornsent corpses by the time we arrive. Maybe they were resilient enough to keep rebuilding it.
@@VictorIV0310considering Rellana demolished Moorth, and there's a furnace golem next to the cathedral between bonny and it, it definitely seems like bonny village was just lucky to make it through the crusade due to convenient placement
"If hell existed in elden ring, we'd definitely be going ther"
Suddenly transported to Cailid.
Important to point out that even goldmask comes to the conclusion that the fickleness of the gods is a major issue just like meteyr does
Ymir confused me when I did the quest. He was always happy whenever I did his quests. He rewards the player whenever you blow one of those finger whistles in the ruins. He gives us the third map. I assumed he wanted us to kill Metyr. But when the player does that, he gets mad and attacks. I didn't care if he wanted to be the new mother of the finger creepers. I didn't think much of it. I had thought he was only doing it for that baby finger creeper he named Yuri after he lost his own kid. Never ocured to me he wanted to lead anyone. Still, not sure why he got made after I did what he wanted me to do, which was kill Metyr.
In a sense, he was not mad at us, but rather he became a mad man. He was essentially using us to kill Metyr, and take her power for himself to become the Mother of Fingers. Once we were done with his tasks, he manipulated Jolan into attacking us. Then we see how crazy he has become in his little bossfight. He never cared about us, only our ability to do his dirty work. The knowledge he held was merely our incentive.
Edit: I forgot to say that he manipulates Jolan against us so that he could rid himself of us, a loose end.
@@vinceangelomanese7001 Doesn't make sense. What makes him think he could kill us if we killed Metyr, a being which he seems to realize is too powerful to kill himself? I guess you could just say "Well, he's crazy" but why would he also send Jolan's sister after us before we even meet Metyr? Is that also part of the test? None of it makes any sense at all.
@@misterdaleboomshears8619 that is a good point to think about. I think it also has to do with what Everberon said about him in the video: dude is so delusional to the point that he's stupid. I never really saw it that way, thanks for giving me another perspective.
Okay, from what i hypothesis Ymir didn’t know that the greater will was gone. He thought that Metyr was the problem, and with her death, Yimr could become a better mother. However, from Metry's boss, soul and boss rewards, nothing can call to the Greater Will. With this major setback comes the horrifying implications for all of Yimr's new fingercreeper children they will all be born broken with no hope. Imagine being pregnant forever and only birthing stillborns. Of course, this would drive Yimr to one logical conclusion: we, the person who killed Yimr, broke something, and killing us will fix his problem
Ymir told us to find it - not to kill it... I guess he was more like playing spider web... Catching us with deep knowledge and the final reward should have been to be obliterated to stardust by her... But we killed the mother of his beloved Yuri so he had to switch the role from a mentor to a mother... Somehow he was granted with her power when we defeated her (why he and not us the looting tarnished is another riddle, but maybe we renounced by instinct automatically xD)... With the power and the knowledge - beyond space - I guess it's a common site effect for human mind to drive mad... Like in the movie event horizon...
Strangely, in Vers 1.00 it is stated that Marika was the one that gave the Crucible Knights their shields and armor, meaning she consciously chose to have them wear the emblems of the Scadutree chalice on their armor. Of course, From has changed the Lore around a lot since Martin mapped it out so who knows how that all fits in now. It is like the Shield of the Guilty and how it once said that it depicted a goddess encoiled in thorns, but now only says it is a maiden. The changes could be trivial or of massive import.
The droning sound in Metyr's second phase is actually similar to (or exactly) the "sound" (sonification of astronomical data) of a black hole. On top of that the microcosm even looks like a black hole and her double laser attack look like they were inspired by the plasma jets made by quasars, a rare class of supermassive black holes. As a space nerd I found all of this very cool
I think there is a piece of environmental storytelling that everyone is missing: Metyr came down upon the lands as a meteor, and the biggest crater in the map is right next to Shaman Village.
It could be that Marika saw the opportunity to take revenge in Metyr, and so followed her Fingers.
Moreover, Manus Metyr should translate to "Mother of Fingers" or maybe "Mother of Hand" (manus is latin for hand). Nontheless, in Ymir's words, Metyr was corrupted and could not birth a proper Hand. Following is wild speculation: instead of birthing a proper hand, she birthed the Two Fingers that bring Order and the Three Fingers that bring Chaos. Separating the two opposites indeed resulted in a world that can never truly recover.
Miquella, while being the most terryfing of tyrants, might still be onto something.
A little problem with that is the timeline. Metyr is the first that came down. Then the Elden Beast as the Elden Ring. Then the dragons with Placidisax became the very first Elden Lords.
Then thousands if not even millions of years passed before we come to Marika. So the crater was already there when everything in the Shadowlands happened.
Everything about Metyr is peak cosmic horror.
It's abstract appearance, the strange location it's in, the uncanny music, the uncertainty of its death animation, so on.
Things that inevitably DO mean something, and have a purpose, but such things are ultimately forever beyond our comprehension.
They get the greatest voice actors I swear. Ymir is so memorable. Amazing video sir.
Enia beliefs that the greater will abandoned the lands between during the shattering which is also the same time the shadowlands where split and metyr lost contact to her children.
something that concerns me is that I'm not sure if Metyr died, clearly she didn't vanish like other bosses, she created that sort of wormhole and left, like the ones Astel uses in his fight, maybe we just sent her back to wherever she came from, will she return? I hope not
That's an intriguing point. It seems so based off the text at the end of the fight, but we've definitely seen stranger in this game...
@@everberon Margit is Morgott . . Metyr will back and New Name . . .
@@tossapat027 Fatyr, Father of Toes
@@iboofer aka Mike Zaki 😮
Nah she got slumped. We literally get her remembrance and bits of her body when we turn it in to Enya.
I do want to make a note about what you said at 47:39 she isn't actually dead as if you notice she falls over then she disappears into her microcosm going off to who knows where to recover. Also her being broken seems to come from the massive wound in her belly where she births fingercreepers something wounded her which caused her to stop making two fingers.
Fun fact about the metyr second phase music, the low droning is actually the recording nasa did of a black hole. (Or is maybe a sound made to replicate or be similar to it.) it’s especially interesting when you look at the microcosm attacks, which look particularly like black holes.
Yes yes, it has been said to death. Move on.
With the additional context from Ymir and Metyr, I think it’s worth reexamining the Fallingstar Beasts and Astel.
Both Metyr and the Elden Beast were sent to TLB by the Greater Will upon falling stars. Isn’t there an interesting parallel between them and the malformed stars that have fallen across the land? The key difference is that the Elden Beast and Metyr seem much more ancient than the other meteoric bosses.
My interpretation is that the Greater Will is trying to reestablish its presence in the Lands Between, but for some reason is unable to. The weakness and corruption at the roots of the world that Ymir describes goes higher still than Metyr: Even the Greater Will is bent and broken.
They all have similar body plans too. With each only having one eye.
I wonder if It could actually be even more dire than that: What if the Greater Will is actually dead, and the fallingstar beasts and Astel entities are essentially mindless monsters born from its "corpse" (ie from the lightless abyss that is its being).
Perhaps the Shattering was such a cataclysmic event for its being that it, the very concept of Order made manifest, could no longer maintain its own existence... the reverberations from shattering a "microcosm" of its being (ie the Elden Ring upon the world upon which the game takes place) echoing into the macrocosm of its totality... causing the Greater Will as a whole to shatter and become a dead void of aimless potential and cosmic horrors (such as Astel and the like).
There is something quite poetic, after all, about a game thematically meditating so heavily upon existentialism for it to, in a very literal way, channel Nietzsche: "God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?"
Of course, that is being quite dramatic, but if it is not dead, it could very well be that the sheer danger that the Shattering represents for the Greater Will that causes it to withdraw its influence and flee from the Lands Between, cutting off all contact.
just noticed the dung eater wears the same symbol on his armor that is on the furnace golem.
The crucible and the fell god of fire are one in the same. Zullie the witch video on furnace golems is a must watch.
@@ramoraid chances are that the face the omen fear is also the fell god, which god do we know that has sun like iconography and eyes? Is there a chance that the sun stopped shinning in the lands between the day the golden prince was eclypsed by the carian plotting with the moon? The erd tree is practically an erd tree ioncantation that wont let anyone normal die extreme regen. fun thoughts you inspired.
And dung eater also has red hair
@ramoraid which crucible? There are multiple.
@@im2arrogant118 There is only one crucible, the Fell god of Fire.
Heres some facts I found regarding this questline.
1. when metyr dies, her microcosm i.e. black hole/portal sucks her up and shes gone. no other enemy in elden ring dies with way. theres heavy significance in this!
2. her soundtrack in phase 2 is reminisent of the 1st sounds of a black hole in space
3 her gash was formed by the nox who wanted to make their own lord, the greater will/or metyr herself didnt like this so she summoned astels to destory all 3 night cities
4. elden ring lore is the best
10/10 video, subbed!
Since a bunch of folks love fantasy but won't play it, I'm so glad the writing holds up so that fans like you get to bring out the conversation. As a ASOI&F fan, I relish seeing Elden Ring make it's way through.
Going down the cathedral and seeing Metyr for the first time with that perfect sound track was peak Elden Ring.
One of the most interesting loose ends in elden ring to me now is that the two fingers in Roundtable hold are still alive and seemingly the only set of two fingers still alive.
"Our mother abandoned us. She did not care for her brood. Must we remain sad forever?" - Moore
47:40 We didn't actually kill Metyr, her "Death" Animation is her teleporting somewhere else, the Black Hole growing in size as Metyr disappears is supposed to represent that
Maybe the black hole kills her. It would be the final fingernail in the coffin.
Much like Bayle getting struck by lightning on death
From what i understood, the moorth ruins are sunken, because rellana used the twin moons to cause a massive earthquake and sink the central area
One small correction. The Tarnished does NOT kill Metyr. The Mother of Fingers escapes into her microcosm at the end of the fight.
The transgression is not of murder but that we caused Metyr to abandon us as the Greater Will abandoned her.
I have a theory that when the fingers commune with “The Greater Will” that they are in fact deferring to Metyr who has been waiting for signs from the Greater Will.
The fingers have been receiving their orders from Metyr all this time not The Greater Will. Metyr was just winging it on what she thinks what the Greater Will wants.
This is the greatest folly and deceit of the gods.
It's abandonment. That's Ymir's hangup.
The fingers were abandoned by their mother, Metyr. Metyr was abandoned by the Greater Will. The entire world was abandoned by Marika. All of the problems come from when the parent leaves the child.
Thats why he thinks he can do it better. Because he knows he would never abandon his children. Even if, in Yuri's death, he may have felt abandoned himself.
The story of a man so broken that instead of fixing himself, he tried to fix the universe.
Ooo when I first saw the cathedral I was so on edge, expecting a boss battle. I was not expecting a questline
Same here!
That crucible and the scadutree bowl observation was mind blowing. I also noticed that Ymir’s headpiece was meant to look like metyr’s face, this might be unintentional, but right where her eye should be on said head piece was empty, maybe implying she no longer can speak to the greater will? Anyways. Phenomenal video.
"metyrs face" - thumbs up!
But ye.. At least there is one eyeball... with a red-white cross faded iris
Ymir at least has that neck decoration, the gold collar of ornate finger-like protrusions.
This is highly speculative but I believe the Elden Beast arena indicates that the giant phantom trees are each their own universe, so maybe the Greater Will is trying in vain to find a universe under it's control that isn't yet broken
Shaman village is one of my favorite locations , it gives This cold vibe it’s almost creepy .. I wish we had a secret ultimate boss there at night ( it also just hit me watching this ) maybe when merrika came back to the village it was destroyed and terrible looking .. the flowers were dead and the sky above was dark,, maybe she planted the tree to bring the village ( somewhat back to life lol) it gave her some type of comfort for her grandmother and peoples sake
This also is linked with what Gideon said to us. "Queen Marika has high hopes for us, that we continue to struggle onto eternity". The people of the LB are alone and must find meaning for themselves from within, not from external sources. this is also related to the "end of knowledge" and "the end that should not be".
I think Gideon also got a glimpse of the knowledge we got from Count Ymir, only from either Radagon, or Marika or even his investigations into the fingers (he says the fingers have long lost their purpose). In his case and his knowledge seems more incomplete than ours. He gave up on hope, add that with the fact that he doesn't think it's possible to kill a god/Elden Beast and he has succumbed to despair, doomer style.
Sounds more like a strange message about not commiting the same mistake as her, of not being consume by hate and vengeance
The biggest curve ball of them all, right here. I think the next big question is whether or not the Elden Beast is still communicating with the Greater Will or if it's in the same boat as the Fingers. I get the impression that Placidusax controlled the Elden Ring before Marika and probably became the Elden Lord of the Greater Will upon discovering it. At some point after Placidusax realized that no new messages were coming from the Greater Will and that's why he felt abandoned.
I would like to see a timeline video as I still have many questions as to the placement of various events. Like at what point did the Gloam-Eyed Queen battle Marika? And when did Marika remove the Rune of Death from the Elden Ring? I could see her removing it as soon as she obtained the Elden Ring and founded the Golden Order but if that's the case, how was she able to wage war? What's the point of fighting a war if your enemies will never truly die? Unless they somehow weren't influenced by the removal of the Rune and could still die?
My crack pot theory is that GEQ was the god of Placidussax, Marika seduced her as Radagon, betrayed her and stole the Elden Ring. Melina and Messmer are cursed by GEQ (it isnt something new for Marika's children).
That really is crack pot because this skips the rauh and hornsent civilization. @@angeltzepesh1
Enia states that the Rune of Death was "plucked from the Elden Ring at the establishment of the Golden Order," so we know that the Golden Order truly began the moment that Marika removed Death from TLB. I'd hazard a guess that all of her warring and conquest happened beforehand; like you mentioned, war doesn't matter if your enemies can't die. So Marika probably established her dominion over TLB through war with the various factions, and once she'd done that she officially began the Golden Order by removing the Rune of Death.
My major question about the timeline is, when was Metyr abandoned by the Greater Will? If the theory about the Nox wounding her and being banished underground as punishment is true, was it that wound that made the Greater Will cease contact? And again - *when* did that happen?
We know that Placidusax was Elden Lord in an age long ago, and we can see that the Elden Ring existed then. What if the events that caused Placidusax's consort to "flee" was the Nox wounding Metyr? If Metyr's wounding and abandonment by the Greater Will was what caused the downfall of Placidusax's age... then Metyr, the Two Fingers, and the Elden Beast were either guiding Marika with severely outdated orders or just outright lying to her about where her orders were coming from.
In my opinion, the latter would be the best storytelling. The entirety of the Golden Order founded upon a massive hill of lies and false "divine" wisdom. Maybe that's what Marika found when she "search[ed] the depths of the Golden Order." Maybe she orchestrated everything - Night of Black Knives, the Shattering, all of it - in order to give TLB the chance to live a true life, whether with or without an Outer God at the helm.
@@ramoraid not really, how does it conflict with the hornsent civilization, since we dont even have a clue how GEQ even looked like? And we dont even know much about the ancient civilization that built Rauh, besides that they are long gone with no real traces left.
@@angeltzepesh1 The Rauh and the knowledge gleam from their relics inspire the hornsent admiration of spirits. The hornsent went on an inquisition on mydra because the flame of frenzy completely kills spirits. Spirit ash is rauh and hornsent derive item the current iteration was built upon this two civilizations knowledge. So yes there is some friction in your theory. The GEQ defeat either happen after Marika went into the gates but before messmer crusade or right before she went into the the gates.
The black pill was made into a side quest. Never change Miyazaki
Based and GreaterPilled
What is the black pill side quest?
there is also a scen with Ymir visiting yuris grave and you can also talk about Anna with Jolana if you talk to her after defeating her sister and going back out.
"Humanity, is a mess. The Gods, are a mess. And The Outer Gods are a mess as well. What is someone to do in that situation?"
*MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD!!*
Chaos is a Messi too, in fact is the ultimate Mess ,so death to the chaos
@@user-ku8yi5to4f now I'm mentally picturing the player character at the end of the game with the flaming ball head playing soccer like Messi against Midra, and I can't stop giggling
RETURN ALL TO THE ONE GREAT!
NO MORE BIRTHS
NO MORE FRACTURES
NO MORE SOULS
MAY
CHAOS
TAKE
THE
WORLD!!!!!!
It's funny that every new bit from the dlc just proves Goldmask right.
The opening says that the shattering war lead to abandonment by the greater will
Everyone assumes or thinks the Greater Will is an Outer God. It is not. It isn’t the God of one Element or Concept like the God of Rot or the Fell Flame nor the Formless Mother. If anything, It is an Elder God. A Titan. It is both Order and Chaos, both Life and Death. Or even Both light and void. It’s more similar in nature to the concept of the Holy Spirit, an aspect of the Triumvirate of Christianity. The Greater Will is more similar to that than any Outer God.
In fact I think Outer Gods are all fragments of the Greater Will. Separated aspects. I think the Greater Will is the Original First Mind of the Great Oneness that was first. A perfect self aware void. Existing outside time and space, but a part of all. A living paradox and singularity. I think when the Rupture happened, or the Schism, or the Big Bang? It made the Greater Will less than it once was, but in exchange it was no longer alone, and the universe and all life was born. The Primeval Current is the same as the Crucible. An infinite well of power. Infinite possibilities. It’s from this that all life came. And from the Greater Will all souls came. And when Marika Took death from the world? It was the same Sin as Gwyn Linking the Fire. An artificial age of immortality.
Death feeds life. Life feeds off of death. Both physical energy wise, but also spiritually. It allows the souls to return to the source with all their life’s experiences and knowledge given up to the source. Or the Greater Will. And in return It can reincarnate the souls when and if wanted. Marika broke a natural cycle and source of strength and growth to both The Great Tree, the Crucible, and the Greater Will.
The Great Tree was two trees twining into the sky like a double helix. One tree was Dark, Chaos, Death. The other light, birth, order, life. Marika caused a split in nature and the Trees. The Life side became the Erd Tree. The Dark is the Scadutree. This is why you are Born from the Erdtree, and all death ends up washing upon the Scadutree. Where once things were naturally in balance, now there is imbalance. All for the sake of Immortality. I think this was both Marikas and Metyrs Will, not the will of the Greater Will.
Just like Oneness came first, the Great Tree was First. Then a schism occurred. And the very nature of things changed. The Crucible is similar to The Elden Ring and the Golden Order. They all are multidimensional and transcendental. They are symbols, power, laws, Schools of Thought, an Age, and a psychical object or being. They are states of mind and being, laws that govern the world, personal philosophies, and both literal and symbolic objects.
I agree with this.
When i first found the shaman village i cried for some good minutes, and the main trigger for that was the line "only the kindness of gold, without Order" from the minir erdtree incantation, so yeah, I get it, it saddens me too, a LOT
Random thing I realized that I'm surprised none of us realized sooner: The White and Red Flesh Mushrooms, are Marika and Radagon's "butterflies/lillies." And, despite not taking the time to explain it (sorry, don't have the time, this is going to be long enough and the comment section isn't the place for a 20 page book report), I'm 100% convinced that Marika was a successful attempt at what the Hornsent were trying to accomplish with the jars. They made a living vessel to house a God or "Kami's"(Japanese divine being that rules over a force of nature or an idea) power or being. Google Shinto-Buddhism. The religions Shrine Maidens (which trust me, is a better translation than Shaman) have the ability to be a vessel for a Kami, which the Kami can use to interact with our mortal plain. Think of it like this: dude wants to communicate with a god for whatever reason (maybe bargain with said god), shrine maiden does ritual that allows the god to enter her body and use it to communicate with dude. Guess what the Shrine Maidens traditional colors are? White and Red. Also, I do believe Marika and Radagon are inspired by Alchemy's Red King and White Queen, Divine Hermaphrodite as well. I also think that this trait is what makes an Empyrean. You need to be capable of being a vessel for the divine (outer god, it's influences, or it's force or idea, ie: the very thing that determines the metaphysics of existence in our world). It's also important to note that just like Elden Ring, the kami can be sealed away, killed or desposed of in various manners, and that force or idea they rule over, can continue to exist. And despite being abandoned by the Greater Will, we still have the Elden Ring and scarlet rot is still a natural phenomenon (And I imagine we are all familiar with the blind swordsmans exploits). Maybe this jar saint thing was an artificial way of producing an empyrean, discovered by the Hornsent (assuming there is a natural way, which might be an inheritable trait for being born of a god who is literally part Elden Ring, lol), similarly to Rykard feeding himself to the snake, only he's more ambitious, as the snake apparently has the ability to act as a vessel for all of the divine that he could seemingly get his hands on. I like to think of Rykard as an aspiring pokemon trainer who wants to catch em' all. And maybe Marika could choose which of her demigods would innately be empyreans (and/or her two fingers, as the game mentions they're choosen by their fingers, and I could totally see Marika's two fingers demanding her to bare a child and Empyrean) and perhaps based on her plans, as we clearly see her using her children as tools. And maybe anybody with the might, and/or desired (by the god) abilities, can be an Elden Lord (it's just a title given by the God that possesses the Elden Ring, and the Elden Lord is essentially the God's choosen protector, lead enforcer, and probable mate). Furthermore, the butterflies and such, don't just symbolize the corresponding being, but also are an indicator of Empyrean status, which would mean that Messmer is an Empyrean, as well as Melina. Important note: I think Messmer and Melina's real mother is the Gloom Eyed Queen, who was likely the god of the era, is definitely associated with snakes and I believe was a snake, that like the ancient dragons, could take on the form of a human. And they were sired by Radagon as a sort of "seduction and betrayal" trick, giving meaning to the Grandam's strumpet allegations, and I think by leaving his emote there, they're trying to tell us that Messmer figured it out, in Bonny Village, potentially with those nearby details. And why when he curses her after his defeat, he corrects himself by referring to her as Marika. And when you see Melina's eye unsealed in the flame o' frenzy ending, here hair turns "back" to black, which she inherited from her mother and is symbolic of the black flame, which I'm fairly confident she intends to shove up our *ss. Pretty sure we were all aware of that last detail, though. And one final detail, there's a hammer that I believe you find in Stormveil Castle, that has the description of being used by a criminal who failed an attempt at rebellion, who also sounds an awful lot like Radagon. I doubted it before the dlc, but am now completely confident that this is what landed Radagon in gaol, where he became jar saint ingredient buddies with Marika, someone else who, for obvious reasons, has a bone to pick with the then "current authorities." Absolute last thing. The term Mesmerize, which is essentially a word for extreme charming, originates from a German man who's surname is Messmer. It makes me think that Miquella's rune, might have originally belonged to Messmer. That or it's a hell of a coincidence, especially for a Fromsoft.
Your not the only one to know about the Shinto-Buddhist FS angle its pretty common knowledge, i just wish they would get better translators and storytellers.
Something if interest is also the second remembrance reward: the Gazing Finger. Surprisingly, its the ash of war that has the most interesting dialogue. Kowtower's Resentment: "Skill performed as a violent bow using a finger's foremost protrusion. Resentment builds as it is forced to bow, making it explode with anger. Hold button down to further increase resentment." Kowtow means "to act in a subservient manner" or "kneel or bow ones head to the floor in worship or submission.
So why who was it kowtowing to, and why the resentment? It could be thought to be Marika, but I doubt it. I think the answer lies in the other item description, which makes reference to it being the *first* star sent from the Greater Will. Now who is the second? The Elden Beast. And what is the Elden Beast? It was the vassal beast of the Greater Will and living incarnation of the concept of Order. This would imply that the Greater Will sent the Elden Beast to enact and carry out its will. This means it would no longer need to send out messages for the fingers and Metyr, as the Elden Beast is the living incarnation of the the Greater Will's Order, a Vassal. A vassal is someone that rules a place in the stead of a higher authority. So, Metyr is no longer needed, and would resent the fact it would have to kowtow to the Elden Beast.
On an even wilder note, we see a massive wound on Metyr. We know there is a special weapon that can harm the Fingers: the Finger Slayer blade. The hidden treasure of the Eternal City of Nokron; a blade said to have been born of a corpse. This blood-drenched fetish is proof of the high treason committed by the Eternal City and symbolizes its downfall. Cannot be wielded by those without a fate, but is said to be able to harm the Greater Will and its vassals. Perhaps it was this wounding that caused the Greater Will to send the Elden Beast down to the Lands Between.
canon!!!!
It's less surprising that I'm still finding random ER CZcamsrs, and more surprising that each one seems to be more and more impressive.
Keep up the good work. 👌
When he leave his chair, he moves to the graveyard. You can eavesdrop on him as he re-buries Yuri.
I didn't realize how deep this questline went when I first did it. This video really moved me and makes complete sense considering the explanation provided
fyi, just so you know - once you reload the area while ymir is holding yuri in his hands, he is gone from the throne and went to the graveyard, sitting by yuri's gravestone and mourning him.
Huge video. Wow great information in here and I absolutely love how you ended it. Feeling satisfied with this game.
Same here! Glad that this DLC is answering a lot of the questions we've all had!
I take the rupture Ymir talks about as being the same/confirmation of the fractures Hyetta tells us about. I don't really see that part as being the primeval current, in and of itself, but maybe the current flows from these fractures?
1:45
I describe the sensation as being in a world, vs being an observer of the world. We can know the sordid details of game of thrones characters, but don't get to know that stuff about like, the local senator.
In elden ring our potential for understanding resembles in a way our limited awareness irl.
It's a long way to describe how it provides it's unique flavor of immersion
Yuri is definitely a human child, or at least the original one. The fingercreeper Ymir holds is a replacement so to speak.
Ymir is a Glintstone sorcerer who dabbles in Primeval... stuff, so he looks at the night and, combining with his grief, "found" a fingercreeper and takes care of it like Yuri. Perhaps somewhere in this obsessive quest, he also got in this head the idea of becoming a mother (in the sense that is explained in this questline a caretaker, nurturer).
So excited about all the new lorecrafters I'm finding since the DLC dropped! Thank you for keeping us well fed!
The "great rupture" reminds me of the words of the three fingers, about the fractured One Great from witch emerged births sins and curses
All of these games have always blown my mind. With almost no answers everyone interprets things their own way.
It feels now that we are at least beginning to ask the right questions. Inspiring video all around. Thank you
I have not seen a single person or video mention this but I wore Yura’s ronin helm for my build and Ymir gave me unique dialogue believing i was Yura. I don’t recall what he said but he seemed close to the character. gotta be relevant.
Spoiler:
So the Shattering didn't make the Greater Will abandon the world; it had abandoned the world so much earlier than that.
Brrrrrrr…
Aside from sending the Elden Beast and punishing the Nox later on, the Greater Will seems to have had no further input in the happenings of the Lands Between. Meaning all the suffering and persecution done under the Golden Order was based on a lie, on the machinations of Marika and Metyr?
@@VictorIV0310the two fingers were the ones begin the mess after erdtree order came to complete power over the lands between. Looking at the transition from erdtree order to golden order it makes it very clear that Radagon was ursuper with the help of the two fingers and elden beast. This is very notable in the way erdtree incantations use faith but radagon and golden order fundamentalist incantations require intelligence as well as faith.
Miyazaki: --and then nothing mattered and everybody went crazy and died. Isn't that SO mind-blowing and original!
Me: Uh...
DS, DS2 and DS3:
*sweating nervously*
The dlc did not deliver in terms of lore💀
@@bmocbruhistotle339 The DLC butchered the story; and I'll explain why.
It's really very very simple: Miquella being capable of brainwashing mere mortals? Perfectly fine. When you introduce a plot twist where that same demigod can brainwash OTHER demigods in his family? That's where you rawdog your lore by destroying ANY character that Miquella comes in contact with: bc, if he's done it once, HOW would we know he hasn't done it in the past? It doesn't just call into question Malenia's consent and dedication to his "gentler world", it demeans every single demigod's raison d'etre. The entire Shattering is thematically compromised and nothing the demigods did after Miquella's was born matters now, bc there's no way of verifying who else he's brainwashed in the past or present. Characters are defined by their choices, ergo, if we can't objectively verify what choice was the demigods, then they're no longer characters. Just broken toys.
@@IggyTthunders yo bro you read my mind😭
@@IggyTthunders thematically the dlc stripped many characters of their volition. Maybe even Marika but I haven't really came to conclusions about her yet. It makes the characters feel less real and make it feel more like it's "just a video game" where everything is decided by the developers.
@@bmocbruhistotle339 The Marika lore was so thin it's insulting. We still don't know what the hell the numen are; or where they came from; or when they were introduced to the Lands Between; or why. We get one readable that confirmed Marika lived in a tiny ass village, and that's it! Nothing about how she rose to power; or who she formed alliances with; or how she met Godfrey; or who her "affair" was with; or who Mesmer's father or mother is; or when the physical Erd Tree was burned; or who burned it; or when Marika ordered the crusade; or who the gloam-eyed queen was, none of it!!! The hornsent were mean to Marika, so she became a God? That's the big reveal!?
The Horn sent are fascinating on paper, but in practice they just hopelessly convolute an already provincial Lands Between and its incoherent timeline. Who the hell are the hornsent? What is their ranking in the pre-Erd Tree pecking order? Are they subordinate to the Beastmen like the Beastmen are distant seconds to the dragons? Do the hornsent serve Placidusax, the first recorded Elden Lord? Why do they just have a Gate of Divinity sitting around? How does it work? Why does it work? What does it do exactly? When Marika was being an asshole, blowtorching their holy capital, why didn't the hornsent just push someone else through that Gate and make a new God to challenge her? Why not make a fucking army? What are the rules, Miyazaki?
I'm just so LIVID with the choices that were made for this undercooked abortion of a DLC. Instead of giving us concrete details that would, at least, firm up the timeline, while leaving its thematically trivial mysteries (like the identity of the Storm Lord) trivial, Miyazaki added more clutter; and even MORE plot holes! And, yes, the Gate is a screeching plot hole until it's adequately explained.
That was awesome
36:10 Maybe it was Marika's only choice in the end when she found out there eventually wouldn't be enough grace for everyone. She can't heal everyone, but she can keep them all alive forever.
One thing I realized are the trees at Enir Ilim. They have female bodies growing from them. Much like all life starts as female until its Y chromosome kicks in. What this tells us is that growing from the base of Belurat, all the way up spiraling with their tower, was a tree that blended and produced life. The crucible. Until it was burned down. In Lyndell, there are parts of the city covered in ash. If you look to the ground from the tower in Enir Ilim, you can see ash. Everywhere.
Just something to think about.
I think this is the best video ive ever watched regarding elden rings story.
Very clear and easy to digest. And if true might just be the saddest thing 😢😢😢
It makes sense now why the frenzied flame was in the 3 Fingers. It was just an extension of Metyr, and in the eyes of shabriri probably just another useless finger creeper so he took control of it.
Which is extra cool cuz it’s Shabriri using the very Order that he wishes to destroy to let Chaos take control
yet more evidence that the ranni ending is the best ending.
the part about being born of a great rupture reminds me less of the primeval current, and more of hyetta's account of the fracturing of the One Great
Im starting to think Celes was a finger entity. Either like Metyr or those fingers Ranni kills under Manus Celes.
the fleeting microcosm spell should require more int than the moon spells due to the nature of what this spell means.
EDIT> something else worth mentioning is how Ymir's hat reveals that it represents the greater will and it's lightless abyss, increasing int and arcane. this is important as its showing how gold and golden order have nothing to do with the Greater will, the greater will is more akin to the primeval current, the abyss, the dark of space. perhaps the sword claws and armor of night mentioning " bottomoless black that devours even the light that shines upon it " is more in line with the true nature of the greater will.
In true lovecraft fashion the greater will is for sure a real outer god with a clear presence on the other side of that microcosm. whatever it may be, well, its perhaps best if we do not know lest we go mad with the eldritch truth.
The Greater Will might be both the gold and the void of space, or it's a black hole with the gold being its accretion disk and any pulsar emission beams it launches out.
Metyr gas a gash on her, so that could be what they meant by "broken", it's possible that she was the original target of the finger slayer blade
Considering how prevailent the mushroom/parasite theme is, i think marika killed the god of the lands between to seize its runes (the elden ring) but in doing so she left the land open to every scavanger in the cosmos..
The lands between are, themsekves, undead.
No, the original god of the lands between was the crucible and the fell god of fire. It fell for one reason or another and ever since it has been the inspiration for several civilizations. The hornsent was itself heavily inspired by this god. Marika couldn't completely erased it omen children and Godfrey grafting of an animal seems rather ptsd inducing knowing what happened to the shamans.
@@ramoraid the crucible was def the original god, im just wondering if by taking the elden ring (runes/soul) from it marika caused it to fracture into more beings.
The frenzied flame was around before marika we know that much, so the fell flame god coyld have also existed butnin a much more copretive way with the original god.
@@cthulhluftagn3812i don't think Marika was the first to cause the fracture of this god, i personally would go with titans or the god placidusax served. The ancient dragons are the perfect embodiment of the crucible aspects but the crucible doesn't explain the time power that resides in their scales.
Not really , You can't be undead without death
Try fingers But whole Quest !!!
Why isn’t it considered that the thing that the Nox did that caused their down fall was that they used the finger slayer blade to try and kill the mother of fingers. Injuring her but not killing, but causing enough damage to sever her connection to the outer will. This causing the falling star beasts and mature Astel creatures to begin descending on the lands.
Excellent work! I especially like your readings of item descriptions, like a recording from some Lovecraft story, very fitting :)
This is so good. Thank you.
Norive how even after beating metyr, a god level being and a direct decendent of the greater will, you only see "Legend Felled". Her body also leaves in a microcosm. I believe she escaped alive.
The dextral side of the cathedral was hilarious and infuriating use of new vocab we weretaught in the dlc
When Ymir said that life was born from a rupture far across the skies, I interpreted it as being the rupture between the Greater Will and Frenzied Flame. The Greater Will broke away from the One Great and created life/the universe, while the Frenzied Flame is trying to burn it all down and merge everything back into one entity. This is also represented by the Two Fingers and Three Fingers together creating a whole hand. Maybe the Primeval Current is another name/form of the One Great?
I don’t think the greater will left I believe it gave up on the golden order a long time ago. Leyndells prime was short lived&after that the domino effect started when Godfrey was kicked out of the lands between. The greater will has no biases so it will simply wait for the current order to be replaced by Rot or Blood or the moon or even frenzy.
Unreal video man expert level commentary and editing keep it up
Perhaps Ymir would have believed in Ranni's cause, if he ever met her
That drone you are hearing is the recorded sound from a black hole
So you mean to tell me that all the teachings of the Greater Will that we hear of in the game is actually just a millennia-spanning game of telephone starting from what Metyr heard
it is only me, or anyone else think that count ymir sounds like internet historian?
Lmao totally!
Very generally, I feel that the Hornsent yearned for the Age of the Crucible, where all life was melded together.
Their crude attempts at melding life together led to the Living Jars, where shamans were stuffed in en masse, in the hope that they could create true horned creatures of the Crucible.
My belief is that Marika, a simple Shaman at the time, was put into a Jar, probably with a person/Shaman called Radagon. The two melded together successfully, and the Empyrian was created.
Perhaps this new 'Marika' was sentient (we know the living jars aren't) and so was crowned an Empyrian. The first successful melding of life, and the first step back to the Crucible.
However, Marika and Radagon were literally molded together, but the resulting flesh was labelled 'Marika'. Still, it consisted just as much of Radagon as it did Marika (original Marika). Numen. New Men...
Then it appears that this Marika performed some ritual with the base serpent (Eyngyi?) and somehow became a God at the Gate of Divinity.
The reason why Marika and Radagon can split is because they're one whole made of two physical beings (that were melded in the jar).
The loophole to birthing Empyrians is that if they reproduce together, rather than with a human thus forming demigods, they will birth an Empyrian. The result of two Empyrians 'mating'.
So this whole meme of Marika fking herself is untrue while kind of remaining true.
The rest of the story speaks for itself.
I also think that since all of the Empyrians are afflicted in some way, especially the Omen Twins, this is the step towards the Age of the Crucible that the Hornsent hoped for.
Let me know what you think...
The Japanese original is more precise. In Japanese, the word they use for "Shaman" in English, explicitly refers to a "Shrine Maiden", so Shamans are likely not a race, but what female Numen (perhaps a special sub-category gifted with increased spirituality) are referred to as.
I just had an epiphany, what if Marika was never born from any divinity, and instead, the sainthood the hornsent where looking for was actually to create an Empyrian that could harbor a god or divinity
Some theorize that Marika herself is one of, if not the only successful jar saint, meaning she was a shaman who got mixed with a bunch of other things but integrated with them rather than simply congealing into what we see in the jar innards. I really like this reading of yours even more when thinking of Marika as a jar saint who took power under the Hornsent regime and then eradicated them due to the suffering of herself and her people.