The Lucians Suck and Who is Better?
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- I don't really like the Lucian Alliance, and who would be better villains in Stargate.
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Agreed, and the idea that some moron gangsters could upgrade their shields to resist beam weapons that took down Ori and Lantean ships was just too implausible. If you told me rouge Tolan or the Aschen Confederation did, I'd believe you.
for all we know they found a anubis fleet yard with advanced ancient shields an weapons so not a major strech to think this is how they rose to power so fast
@Andy McCurdy yeah but they'd still be using ancient tech to do it and the Tau'ri took out Asuran ships no problem. It'd make more sense if they used clever tactics like cloaked Alkesh bombing their weapons while their shields were down or having brainwashed crew take the weapons offline or hell overwhelm them with 30 plus ships (Tau'ri only have like 4 ships max). Its just lazy writing to go "somehow they upgraded" ....fucking how??????
@robkemp598 right so in a galaxy filled with abandoned technology an you wana see them finding it becauseyou cant imagine the 100s of situations criminals would take advantage of a power vacume.... why? We see this in the real world when a less sophisticated armies take over area with new technologies they learn pretty darn quick how to use them, especially if they go pew pew big explosion...
It would've been a great episode or even a whole story arc if SG1 discovered some rogue Tolan giving technology away to other humans specifically to fight the Ori.
I'd personally like to see full scale wraith invasion of the Milky Way. The series could be about gathering allies from across the galaxy to aid in a galactic scale war (we could return to other advanced races like the Hebridans, maybe some Tolan colonies, the grace and foothold aliens, the Jaffa etc.
I liked the idea of the Goa'uld slowly coming back as a spiritual organization posing as enlightenment gurus rather than Gods. We see currently how twisted individuals can develop a cult of personality to lead others to embrace their darkness and commit deplorable acts.
Given the multi-factional nature of the Lucian Alliance, they could've been the gray guys of the series. Some friendly factions, some not, and so on.
The lose cannons...florida man type mindset...
Oh they my help in the fight...or they may turn on us and rob all our burger kings :)
A big problem with using some of the old villains is that earth is too advanced now. They have to nerf earth in really dumb ways to make those villains a threats. The Lucien Alliance should only be a threat when they use trickery. Earth has access to all of the Asgard's knowledge so they should be able to build Goa'uld detectors. The Aschen don't even have very fast ships, they'd get stomped by earth ships.
Only a few of the previous bad guys like the Wraith, evil Asgard, and Foothold aliens might be a threat.
My number one pick for the next main villains would be the Furlings. It's already a pre-established mystery that could hook in fans. But I also think it could make a lot of sense if presented right. Think about it. We never really find out anything about them. There are basically no ruins, or tech or writings or any other trace of their civilization. Even the other races in the alliance don't talk about them. In fact, I think the only time any of them even acknowledge they existed is when the Asgard mention their name when telling Jack the original members of the alliance. What if that is not an accident. What if the rest of the Alliance and the Furling had a falling out due to some sinister revelation about the furlings and it in a massive conflict the parties. One so bad that even though the alliance eventually won the war they ended up nearly wiping away all evidence of the furling civilization in the process. And left them so bitter towards the furlings they can barely even acknowledge they ever existed at all. But they didn't all die. What if a small group was managed to hide themselves away for all these years? And now the Asgard are extinct. The ancients are basically the same. And the Nox are too self absorbed in their own pacifism to do anything. It would be the perfect time for them to emerge and try to re-establish their previous empire.
I'd like to see that hostile alien race encountered in the Daedalus Variations episode!
@Snapper314 I did do a video for GateWorld about that race.
Wasn't that supposed to be the plot of Stargate Atlantis Season 6? I know there's quite a few fanfics that use them.
I can think of 2 occasions where empires have risen in secret to become the galactic superpower, those being Sokar and Anubis. So it only makes sense that there could be something powerful lurking in our galaxy like the Tlak'kahn.
I think the next big bad should be the evil Asgard from Pegasus. For the following reasons
1) They have a legitimate grudge against humanity and could blame them for the loss of the good Asgard from the Milky Way
2) They will rival technology with Earth, they were shown to easily counter Ancient tech when they invaded Atlantis to take the Aultoro device.
3) They will have all of the Asgard knowledge base plus more because they were willing to pursue darker more dangerous experiments that the Milky Way Asgard wouldn't on ethical grounds.
4) They actually understand the basic science whereas Earth are learning as they go from the Asgard core etc.
5) They can be used to restore the good Milky Way Asgard from extinction. (after defeating them/reaching a peace treaty) After all the Asgard download the consciousnesses from body to body, there's no reason the Milky Way Asgard consciousnesses couldn't be stored in the Asgard core.
I'm happy to find this channel. Not a lot of Stargate stuff that's active on CZcams anymore. Good find
Yeah... i stumbled on it a few months ago and really liked his take on SG.
I watch Gateworld and Dial the Gate for the interviews and behind the scenes info from the actors, writers and producers and such...but what SG-24 does is different and a pleasure to watch and creates deeper thought.
He has more than doubled his subscribers in just a few months so apparently people like what he is doing.
Welcome to the party :)
i think the Luician alliance could've worked as a coalition of the already mentioned freed slaves, smugglers, pirates, bandits, remaining system lords, independent worlds that are hostile to sgc like aschen and remaining tollan, surviving Eurodans, the people of P3R - 118 , Galarans, bedrosians ect plus i really think any extracanonical races like those from infinity, shelved games, novels, comics, and rpg could be reworked and reintroduced into the franchise proper in a new series and expand on all the one-off races and cultures
the Wraith , Luciens and Achen working together makes a lot of sense since the former would naturally subdugate the latter and use them to supply food while the Achen will love to cooperate and cultivate,
I wonder if the Wraith are already there, in the Milkyway puppetearing the Achen?
I quite like the Lucian Alliance as they were used in SG-1, they were sort of this Post-Fall of the Roman empire-esk State along with the Goa'uld Remenent, the Jaffa Free State and the Tau'ri all trying to define themselves in the new galactic status quo. I'm not really a big fan of Stargate Universe but the Lucian Alliance were a massive mistake, the show tried to have this isolated undersiege thing but not only did they pick a villian that we had seen before but they picked the most Banal one.
Re alien bad guys with civilians: interestingly in the original 1978/79 Galactica, it is mentioned that there are Cylon civilians, evidently an awful lot. We even see them in the Pegasus 2-parter
There are still lakes on worlds full of Goa'uld, and the system lords have been taken out. There could be lots of other Goa'ulds in the galaxy.
Nakai. They have intergalactic hyper drive and have a strange fixation with destiny. Maybe when they sent there ships to follow destiny they sent some ship back along it's trail ( a trail that has bread crumbs in the form of stargates)
I don't know what story to tell with them. But they are mystery and more like the enemy stargate has had in the past. Bipeds that they can fight on the ground.
I will suggest another powerful enemy.
Michael. It could be explained Michael created a clone of himself to survive his death. Earth forces left the Pegasus galaxy.
Michael and a handful of his followers go to the cloyster. The safe haven the lanteans made with time dilation so they could ascend in peace. Michael could build his army there and when thy come out they could have spent Decades building their army in a matter of months in the real world.
The best part is Michael being half Wraith is still alive to lead them. My biggest problem with the Wraith was they didnt have a face. No leader we can really remember until Todd. Not like SG1 the Apophi era, Anubis, Baal
Also the Retu allied with the Wraith due to their bug like aliens and phase shifting with human cloning ... would be very damgerous
I think the goa'uld specifically younger ones would easily blend into human societies and gain power by being "geniuses" that uplift their peoples. Puppet states with elections wherein the parasite just jumps hosts. The ashrak are an interesting example of partial memory symbiotes that the goa'uld needed to be an industrial engineer caste. They themselves as leftovers could have risen as a new threat. I see various "good" factions expanding rapidly to fill the void of the old empire. It should be a hodgepodge Coldwar among many factions no one with the strength to control everything
I actually forgot they existed and if they were the main villains of a new stargate show, i doubt i would care enough to actually watch it
In regards to villains with a civilian population of their own species, I've got a serious question to ask about the Goa'uld.
For the millions implanted into Jaffa, when they mature enough, where do these Goa'uld go? Besides the sushi bowl on the council space station, assuming they actually get removed from their Jaffa hosts/incubators, then where do they go? There can't be that many underlords or symbiote possessed humans as that's too much competition for the system lords they'd not want, and clearly the symbiotes in Jaffa have the same "spirit" as the system lords, especially the super dedicated one that took over Kawalski.
You know... I'm not sure. I guess we could assume some would go on to become assassins or other lower class Gou'ald. But given how the council would eat them. I wonder if they did the same thing with those that matured.
It's funny that the Lucians come up...I was just saying on another channel that the fastest way to save the crew of the Destiny, benefit from their experiences, and little temporal impact is use the still functioning time traveling puddle jumper (SG1 Moebius pt 2) to go back in time and warn the SGC about the Lucian attack that started the whole mess. The crew and planet are saved, the knowledge of the Destiny is still known, and the only losers are the Novans who shouldn't exist. ;o)
Who knows, maybe a combo could be done, a main villain in the forefront with another secretly building their strength in the background, something like that could be interesting, maybe we’ll get subtle hints to the growing power or the threat this shadowy faction poses with the main characters realizing too late that they have another enemy behind them. Idk, I think it could be interesting, and could definitely work with your idea for the goa’uld and maybe the aschen?
I always thought of the Lucian Alliance as...leftovers? They were a group they had sprinkled in while the big arcs were going on, and then once the big baddies were gone, they were still here. Based on how late in the game this was, I feel they didn't want to create and establish a new big bad so just ran out the clock with the ones they had? Maybe that's just a jaded opinion looking back on the shows knowing they ended when they did. That being said, I do like them in concept as a mid-level power in the galaxy. Kind of like the Orion Syndicate in Star Trek. Never the main villain, but a problem that's always working in the background.
my main issue is three fold.
They are bland, plot armor heavy, and quite frankly done worse than their counterparts.
1) gangsters with spaceships... Literally that's all they are. Not even great side villains at that.
2) Their position as threats to Earth or being the main Galactic villain is because... Writers couldn't think of one and people without makeup are cheaper than people with makeup.
They advanced as far as they did because the writers didn't want to use the Free Jafa conflict, the Snake Heads banding together, or even remnants of the Ori trying to still subjugate the galaxy or something.
Nope. Just thugs with guns who claim one thing while constantly doing everything, but what they said.
3) Star Gate Atlantis did better ones.
Genii - human group trying to kill the wraith and trying to deal with unification of humanity, but under their rule.
Essentially what the gangsters could have said or done. Band humanity together to claim vengeance against the parasites and be in conflict with Earth due to their methods.
Todd with the Wraith. A side enemy or reluctant ally Earth has to work with because they are better than the alternative.
Even a constant back and forth were the line between tolerated enemy and reluctant ally could be made or danced across.
They made the Tok'Ra act more as self serving enemies most of the time with only Sam's father having the only good Tok'ra within the group.
Whenever Selmak withheld information it was because he didn't know... Or because it didn't seem to mater at the time like the System Lord meeting with the outcomes being dead or every system lord dead... Right up until the real big bad revealed his name drop.
4) They are boring. They either copy other villains from other shows with just the surface level copy with no substance or they change what their goals are supposed to be.
The worst of both worlds only beat by the Ori.
I could also see Anubis returning and taking over the goa,uld on earth. Since Anubis was never confirmed dead.
Anubis is locked in an eternal battle with Oma.
She wasn't allowed to destroy him so she is fighting him forever.
And if anything changes...Anubis is only half ascended so Oma will wipe the floor with him.
he did leave a clone behind but he was eliminated by Jackson and Mitchell.
So by all story plots and writing...he is gone.
Plus with our level of tech now...he would be wiped out pretty quick.
Peace.
If they wanted to make the Lucians the main villain, cool. Earth was so powerful by that point the only group who could realisticly pose a threat is a specter in the shadows that makes is so the SGC constantly has to question who they can trust. We could give X group Y tech to help with Z crysis, but what if the Lucians get hold of it? Someone needs help, but what if they're a Lucian agent? ect, ect. It could also be fun to see the SGC get a taste of the tactics that they used to great effect against the Goa'uld. But instead they nerf the Tarui ships so they can play at being another big bad.
Exactly!
One way I could see "explaining" the Lucien Alliance's weird gangster style could be that they had already been operating that way for centuries or millennia while the Goa'uld were in charge, because they *had* to. And now that they've suddenly had all the previous top dogs taken out, leaving them as the last group standing in their regions, they weren't able to turn on a dime and immediately switch to a more traditiona and stable form of coalition government.
It's like in real life when a dictator gets taken down and the various rebel groups that had been operating in the shadows try to step up to form a government together, you often get an unstable patchwork. Even though they've "inherited" the state apparatus from the former dictator they're not up to the task of running it like he did.
I liked these guys as a minor villain. Not every story needs to threaten the world and in stories with those kind of villains, minor ones can be refreshing.
They are fine AS minor villains but that they somehow rival the Power of Goa ulds seems ridiculous to me Like they have somehow more motherships than the systemlords, which is nonsense and more likely a result that they were too lazy to make better ships for the lucians that would fit way more to pirate criminals and Not bombastic Big Ass motherships
I 100% agree, no real debate here. It seems like the writers wanted to port in a big bad from the other two series only to realize that only the Lucian Alliance was left (the Wrait would have had no ability or care to go for Destiny). Now, if they had rebooted the alliance to be what Telford was saying, or if like in the Star Wars Clone War cartoons were the government and the military were two separate entities rarely reporting to one another or knowing the other's intentions, then I would have been okay with that. But they made no effort to show that, and that episode and speech Telford gave just read as propaganda to me. In fact, how the Alliance even knew about Destiny and had the tech to reach it was always beyond me and made zero since. As well, them going after the ship made less since. They performing a successful raid on Icarus base even was a bit of a slippery slope, but I could buy that.
As far as aliens, I do have the comics from Atlantis. But that one alien race I suppose they were building to be one of the new big bads seemed sort of good, at least I would like to see where they were going with that. A far as the Goa'uld were concerned, I think they sort of dropped the ball with them, but not by alot, and I would like to see them sort of recover it. Sure, we would have Goa'uld trying to infiltrate government, but I think after that WWIII event, Earth is pretty onto them and now would be scanning their leaders to symbiotes. I think that we would see more sort of in a position like we saw Athena, just running businesses and just staying out of the way. I also though that they dropped the ball with one aspect of the Goa'uld story line. In I think it was episode Summit, we find out that some slaves want to become host. I always imagined that there might be a "grey" system lord, maybe like Amaterasu (I think I've mentioned this somewhere, but this is pure head cannon as she's only in the series once and never mentioned again, also she's my favorite mythical god outside of Isis, and they'd killed her off in like season 3?) that ran their own planet with this mentality in mind, and that there were no real slaves because they never really did need them because of how they manipulated their belief system. During the war and prior these planets were more or less hiding from the main system lords and were owned by minor Goa'uld, hence the reason why Amaterasu isn't in Summit, but in that one season 8 opener. These places have sort of been left alone after the war, and even become a bit of havens in the post system lord era for Tok'ra and maybe even some free Jaffa as they were able to reveal this about themselves. And of course, we could see the fall out from those decisions. These new Goa'uld would not necessarily like the Tok'ra or visa versa, but at the same time they are now being forced to learn to live together after the war. Hell, I would even think it would be funny if one was on Earth acting more like a thousand year old child rather than a Goa'uld god, mainly opted to aid Stargate Command as some sort of work release, or even as an exchange to have Earth protect her (still in the head cannon here) in the post war era. We can see the Goa'uld and the host often going at it (almost like close siblings manner), and sort of a Vala relationship with one of the SGC members.
But as you said, a 100% new to the series enemy would be better. I think we still need to see a conclusion with the Wraith, but with a ton of their development done, and apparently their race on the verge of extension anyway (something that was apparently pitched for a direct to DVD movie, I THINK) a new enemy coming in that we haven't seen in live action pushing them over the edge could be really good. Heck, they can hybridize them with that bezerker species we did see in Atlantis.
I wonder if instead of there being one main bad guy faction with a few minor ones that instead there can be a set up of multiple factions and alliances. Like have a dozen groups with them being hostile, natural, or allied with earth. Aside from the conflict between the main allied groups there can be the internal politics of maintaining the various alliances.
Defiantly would like to see that in a future SG project
Rather than being run by gangsters. It would have made more sense to me if the Lucian Alliance's leadership was comprised more of merchants, scribes, guild leaders as well as whatever would have made up the gentry class, coming together to fill the void left by the Gould. Maybe their conflict with Earth, the Free Jaffa, Tokra and other factions could have been over resources and territory, rather than them being cartoonish criminals that have to be stopped. Because for there to even be a coalition of pirates, smugglers and crime lords, that means there had to have been large scale organized crime going on in the former Gould Empire. Not saying a criminal underworld couldn't have existed when the Gould were in charge, but aside from a few notable examples, SG-1 never encountered or heard of much in terms of galactic criminal activity going on before season 8. And suddenly after the Gould had been mostly dealt with, they just appear out of nowhere, with no real set up or precedent. The show just needed a new villain and tried to make them as absurdly dastardly as the Gould but also less interesting.
I think there should BE way more Goa ulds because IT makes No Sense that so many people can operate Goa uld Tech that arent Goa ulds ,Heck Most of the Jaffa were so inept in Goa uld Tech they consider IT Magic but somehow some random criminals Out of nowhere can operate everything from staff weapons to freaking motherships.
Personally I have been thinking lately about it and I think an interesting idea would be that the Warth have perfected Human Cloning, letting them go from free range farming to factory farming. Ballooning their population and now treating human worlds for game hunting.
@Edward Kelly oddly enough only one other person has suggested this idea.
me too farming/cloaning
The Lucian alliance is built of humans mad that the sgc sided with the jaffa, and saw that as binary.
@VNerd see that’s kind of the problem. What you said is a really good idea, but we know the alliance was not formed on this idea. It was formed by power hungry individuals taking advantage of a power vacuum. They have no morals standing.
I think the Luciens worked as a way to prevent the SGC from just finding a 9th chevron gate to bring everyone home because the Earth side storyline wasn't as important as the Destiny storyline having a forgettable villain be the antagonist there was perfectly fine imo
@amazingdrewH can’t say I 100% agree. I agree the Destiny storyline was more important than the Earth one (though I found the Langaran episode enjoyable), and the Lucian’s do work to keep Earth from finding the 9th chevron. But if that’s all that was needed you could throw any villain group in there.
I... honestly forgot who the Lucian Alliance even was. Now, I *HATED* SG Universe, so almost none of it has been committed to memory other than some... particularly dumb moments, so there is that. But yeah, they were not... even remotely memorable as bad guys.
To be fair the Lucian alliance was still new was not flesh out if you check history multiple times when groups rise up like this there is a lot of chaos
Are new episodes on their way? Have i missed sth.? My last news were, that maybe something might be worked on with very low budget, but no one confirmed anything.
@Micro Kos sadly I am not really the person to ask on this subject. It’s not really clear what’s going on at Amazon right now with Stargate. I’d recommend checking out @ThePodcast or @scitrek. They seem to know more about this subject.
I like your idea for pulling, unused villains from infinity, and that game. That’s pretty clever, and I never thought about it. I agree the wraith would need to be dealt with. I sort of like the idea that perhaps the wraith made it to the Milky Way and were wreaking havoc across it. I don’t really want to see the Go’a’uld come back as villains. I think it would be interesting to see them come back as either respectable members of interstellar society, or possibly even victims. The Tokura are always a little uneasy Allies, and I could totally see them going out for revenge. We’ve also got the Daedalus variations. Aliens, who I think are interesting. And among the leftover groups we have the Retu, and those aliens in the red space suits who could kidnap people and duplicate them. I thought those guys had a lot of potential, and I would love to see them come back. I have often suspected that if some of the undescended ancients made it back to the Milky Way, they would be quite unpleasant to deal with, and could easily be a credible enemy, though, again, they are just boring humans.
An idea my kid came up with that. I think it’s pretty brilliant is ‘what if a Go’a’uld took a wraith as a host?’
Oh! The Vanir! The Pegasus Asgard
A Goa'uld-Wraith queen is my dream villain for Stargate.
I think the Luciens might be puppeteared by the aschen
The Aschen are like the Pixies of Fairly Odd Parents
I love how much I can relate to this comment.
Also...how do Stargates actually locate a gate? My personal theory that it's not the way we think. In the film, and later series we need 6 points of reference for 3D space and 1 for point of origin. But you only need 3 points for 3D space XYZ coordinates. One of two things is happening. Chevrons 4,5,6 are actually something other than spatial like time or dimension, or, you use 1,2,3 to create a point, 4,5,6 to create a point, and then the point of origin triangulates meaning only 3 points are used like normal. What do you all think? I would think that 4,5,6 would be non-spatial factors because we know that eventually then need to account for spatial drift, which means they have to somehow adjust the coordinates to account for time and motion. But then...who knows. It's all space magic if you ask me.
@aika I’m not sure. It makes sense that one of them is needed for stellar drift. But that seems covered by the DHD. 🤔
@@sg-24 And that's why I have never liked the "explanation" for the addresses. I mean, we don't know what the chevrons do or how it all really works. I can understand/accept that maybe....MAYBE....the SGC has some type of control on their DHD on Earth since we created our own and we can program or change it. OK...but unless there is some magic going on in the DHD we don't know about or isn't talked about...wouldn't all DHD have to be manipulated on every planet....every time. And we never actually see this. Someone once said there's a line by Carter that says like, "a race smart enough to build them would be able to account for these things" or something like that; and since we didn't have the traditional DHD we were not able to account for this until it is brought up by Jackson. That makes sense. But even if there is some program to do the math and positioning.....I really wish we could learn what the chevrons actually do or get a better understanding of how they work more. I just don't by the six points in space..........
I kind of like the idea of seeing a Cold War between Human factions in the Milky Way, Not Lucians ofcourse, But just a Cold War between Earth and its allies and a new Human Faction that has the motivation as tellford, Maybe add some Real life Cold War influences in there and make them a lil communist, Really the possibilities are endless, The amount of worlds in the galaxy make for a rich potential, And the idea of potentially seeing a Earth expanding its territory officialy and revealing the program could give a extra motivation to some other factions who feel like they are going to be opressed by Earth Imperialism, And really create a kind of Grey dynamic where sure the new bad guys might seem evil but their motivations is noble and alot of their people could be nice, While Earth could have corruption and imperialistic leadership, But ofcourse we cannot forget the Jaffa who would kind of act like China did in the cold war, A Nation developing into modern society in the midst of a cold war, And might eventually surpass one of the Superpowers, So yeah that just sounds fun to me atleast, Ofcouse everyone can have their own opinion about this stuff, This is not something i will defend as passionately as other things, I just like seeing a galactic scale version of the Cold War with political intrigue, proxy wars, And ofcourse abunch of space battles
I generally agree with your assessment in terms of likelihood, but I would prefer not to delve back into prior main antagonists to avoid the risk of retreading too much. I actually would like to see the Aschen as the big bads, but not as a direct military threat. They already proved how manipulative they are, and they have reason to hate Earth, so it would be reasonable for them to offer technology and resources to the Lucians, remnant Gua'uld, etc to undermine Earth and sometimes each other. Also, as much as they lied, I would expect them to be far more powerful and widespread than we ever knew... their own citizens probably wouldn't know. They would even bribe officials on Earth if possible, so the series could even have more thriller/espionage elements.
The more I here about Universe the happier I am that I never made it past the 3rd episode
Lucians are the perfect villains.
As we saw them last, they are still a ragtag group, typical for structures emerging from millenia of oppression and complete powerlessness.
By Universe, we see some ideologues have emerged, some firmer structure and goals have been put in place.
Given the time gap, if a new Stargate series continues the story, they could do so with a far more developed, cohesive and interesting Lucian Alliance (or some post-Lucian polity).
It would be cool if their ranks included many aliens, not just humans. Something today's film making might facilitate.
I kind of disagree, but I do like the idea of the Alliance having more alien members in the roster.
@@sg-24 I like the realism of the Lucians. I don't like the idea of a new race suddenly showing up and being a credible threat.
I could also see a more complex scenario develop.
Can you imagine the interplay if Earth, Lucians and conspiratorial Goa'uld cabal? Or take the Aschen - Lucian would make for perfect puppets, their greed and naivity blinding them to the truth.
That’s fair. And I do like the idea of the Lucian’s being a puppet for a more powerful faction like the Aschen or recent Goa’uld.
Berzerker drones- the drones could of discovered the location of the milkway within the novan's archive and made a beline for our galaxy only arriving now. (Considered the time travel of the novan's the drones could of left thousands if years ago)
They are below our tech level but could be treated more like a plague that would allow storys about how we, the jaffa and all the minor player react
@Matthew Evans I will admit I could get behind that idea. I thought they were a cool robot faction that wasn’t a copy of the replicator format.
how about a lost colony of ancients who never ascended. we already know they are tremendous dicks who think they know what's best for everyone, imagine them being discovered, seeing what a mess the galaxy has become and deciding to take over by force because they think it will make things better. essentially they are villains who do everything for what they perceive to be the good of all, they would be a villain who is not exactly evil so much as arrogant and certain of what they are doing they don't question the atrocities they commit. perhaps they may even think that by bringing peace to the galaxy the ascended ancients will finally find them worthy and ascend them, which would be a beleif of there own making possibly from the disappointment that they never could achieve ascension.
@sixeingproductions weirdly enough someone told me this is the origin of the Aschen and a few other human groups.
@@sg-24 interesting
If you can make them distinct from the Ori, go for it. We can also have descended Ori seeking revenge.
I think the Lucian Alliance could be reimagined through some proper world building to make more narrative sense.
What would be interesting is if following the death of Katon, faction fightings breaks out with his various lieutenants becoming Warlords similar to The Fall of the Ching Dynasty. Most are neutral towards Earth. The SGC to do what the US has done before on Earth and support certain sides surreptitiously through things like "infrastructure" and "fertilizer".
@Dragoninthesest oh I really like that idea, not the US supporting warlords thing, but the narrative idea.
To be honest, I do believe the Aschen have potential as a great main villain species if they were tweaked. Sure, when they were initially discovered, the Aschen had slow hyperdrives, used biological weapons that worked over the course of decades, and had no standing army as far as we were aware. But all of this comes before meeting SG-1, before their plans of slow invasion were even considered to not be viable which could make them re-evaluate their methods, continuing with the biological warfare but using them in the way that Michael did, creating warriors and mad creations to serve as their military, literally turning a world's population against itself. With the destruction of the Goa'uld, they could have discovered an old Ha'tak that had been part of Anubis' vast fleet or encountered a Lucian Alliance ship, defeated it in combat and taken their hyperdrive, adapting it to become faster.
After all, the Aschen are cold, calculating, and slow which means they could be capable of a great many atrocities without the morality to get in the middle of the way. Not only that but since so little of them was uncovered in the two episodes that they were present in, there is a great deal of story expansion that could be done with their civilization, in response of the Tau'ri becoming such a dominant force in the galaxy.
The asgard from pegasus..... like they could do something.
Ok, here’s my read on it: they’re the space taliban, or the space ISIL. If you think of it like that, it makes more sense.
I totally agree with you that it’s unstable, and you say that it looks like it will fall apart at any moment. In fact, I think it *did* fall apart. In SG1, they’re just a space drug cartel, with nice trim little uniforms and mafia organization, putting out hits on people and stuff like that. And we *did* see it overthrown in the high school reunion episode. The new guy in charge at the end of that episode may have changed it to what we see in SGU: Dirty, ragtag, brutal, millitia-like, no pomp, no ceremony, launching terrorist attacks, etc. So either HE turned it from Mafia into Angry Rabble With Political Ambitions, *OR* He himself was overthrown at some point after that episode, and the next guy (or girl) turned them into what we see in SGU.
As you say, there’s some obvious parallels in real life. When you’re dealing with vicious gangs, the more vicious will ultimately win, and then all of whatever’s left over is vicious. The ‘original’ Lucian Alliance is only interested in profit and power with as little effort as possible (Hence trading in drugs that grow themselves) the SGU version is obviously composed of very motivated terrorists and self-described warlords. Much like hose organizations in the real world, some people join for their own reasons, others are forced, some are radicalized.
As for Keva killing that guy in front of Rush, well, we don’t *know* how common scientists are among the LA. There are thousands of independent human worlds with decent levels of technology, some surpassing earth’s own. Those might have been relatively hard targets prior to the Ori war, but the Ori were wiping out billions of people, with anyone who could running like hell. The Lucians swooped in (I presume) and gave relatively safe haven to anyone who could be useful, and provided some kind of structure to at least some of the countless millions of displaced people. Also, we don’t know how much of a valued asset that guy was. Was he their equivalent of Rodney? Or was he their equivalent of Bill Lee? In any event, she knew she didn’t have a lot of time, and had to scare hell out of Rush, which totally worked.
I think Telford’s speech was probably mostly true and probably mostly the party line. To someone from planet Bumfuddle XVI, it probably seems pretty weird that the Tau’re can defeat one set of gods, and then a more powerful set of gods, and then *doesn’t* bother to help them out. I could see some resentment arising from that. Do the people in charge believe it? Probably. Stalin probably believed in Communism, but he definitely believed in being the most powerful and successful dictator in the world more. I assume that’s like them: yeah, they believe in a thing, but that’s not gonna stop the thugs from taking advantage. It just gives them something to *justify* their bad actions. This is how religious cults are formed.
Also, we still really don’t know *why* they wanted Destiny. It’s clear they had a LOT riding on it, but we never find out why. I have some theories but I’ve already talked too long.
I should mention that I think it’s actually really clever that they use leftover human weapons from the Go’a’uld War and the Ori War, BTW
@Mahatma Randy I agree with most of the points you made. The only counter I really have is that it's speculation. Granted some of my points were speculation to like with the lead scientist guy. I assumed his importance since he was head of the project, but the alliance could have more behind him. I think if we were shown some of the points you talked about the Lucians would have been better villains, but we just weren't.
@@sg-24 yeah! Probably 60% of what I said is speculation. I think part of the problem is that we never really got to see exactly where the Luciens were going. We know they wanted destiny, but we don’t know why, and I think if we didn’t know that it would answer a whole hell of a lot about them, and flesh out their hole threat. Unlike the other gate shows, there was actually a pretty strong conception of where they were going ultimately, and as a result, I think they didn’t feel it was necessary to dump all of their motivations in the front end of the series, and they never got a chance to do it in the back end because there was no back end.
I don’t know how reliable it is, but I have heard that have there been a season three, it would have picked up three years after season two, and would have started out with the revelation of the Lucian alliance had attacked earth directly and devastated the eastern third of the United States. I have never been very fond of the idea of exposing the Stargate program to the public, but if that rumor about a full on Lucy an attack on earth that was successful and killed tens of millions of people, that would certainly have been the absolute best way to reveal the program :-) I mean, if you’ve got to do it, go, big, and if you’re going to go, big, break something. Break it really really badly. :)
2 second in and i agree already.
Unfortunately the problem with Stargate is its insane powercreep. Earth is now the most powerful entity in the galaxy, it would be safe to say that 1 (post sg1) Daedalus could take out 10 hataks at this point (Asgard beam one shot)
Any villain with goa’uld tech wouldn’t be able to be taken seriously in a post sg1 Stargate.
With the ori gone, the replicators gone, and the Lucian alliance never standing a real chance against earth, I think it’s time for a new threat.
Let the wraith build organic replicators. Sounds kind of fun.
I always thought they missed an opportunity with the Stargate being temporarily in German hands. They could've had space Nazis.
@Lee Preston we don’t speak of Origins around here! Joking 😃, I will say while I didn’t like the concept of the show, I will admit the idea of the Nazis having the SG has always intrigued me.
@@sg-24 I've never seen Origins and know nothing about it. I always imagined SG1 arriving at a planet and having modern German speakers yelling and pointing guns at them. This would be a planet the Nazis discovered where all the human slaves were of proper "racial purity" so they help them overthrow the Goa'uld and then basically take over. This would allow them the population and technological base to be a threat to the wider galaxy.
@Lee Preston that does sound like an interesting idea. Though we kind of got the space nazis with the Eurondans.
@@sg-24 yes but these would be real Nazis
No...just no.
No no no no no no.
:)
I think it would be nice if the reason for assention actually boils down to the information from the destiny and seed ships being gathered converted in to the ainchient gene and seeded using Dakara style tools, The planet builers being Ainchients just automating a process of harvesting fuel from an infinet pool of stars and leaving behind a way for their cousins to move forward seems most likely.
If the planet builders are ainchients and human were seeded on those world the destruction of the environment and presence of partially ascendet with limited amounts of power is clear
Assuming the sun harvesting has some sourt of consequence like killing stars over time and a destiny style time split the Ainchients being a cast of peoples living under immortals who think they know better and encountering an ainchient version of their home makes a lot of sense
Earth might have sentimental value but politically its just another planet full of humans that can be easily replicated and all of the power lies in harvesting resources from the galaxy
The Goauld and Jaffa equipment suggests them replicating what partially assended peoples could do
Seeded humans across a grate trail still leaves an enormouse amount of the cosmos unexplored and the existence of other gate network by other grate species also makes sense
Time hopping might be a common practice among the ainchents explaining vast difurences among diferent groupes and their technological development.
If the ainchient gene allows for prior like powers and priors were seen as space shepperts before the Ori took over then what about sky dragons? What if a floating oraborus type thing was developed put under Ori control and freed after the great brainwash, what if it spread out and began seeding the Ori worlds with augmented Goauld brain washed to serve it as its shepperds
What if the shepperds just reegnited their methods of harvesting and ellected an oraborus as space pope
Indeed as Teal'c would say😊 the Lucians suck they are boring i personaly didn't liked them the Goa'uld and the Wraith are so much better period.
Other than that a great video keep up the great work👍
And greetings from the Netherlands🇳🇱
Tbh, I really wish Stargate Infinity was good and was wasted potential. I liked the designs of the aliens and perhaps the characters, its a shame it never managed to be developed into something better.
one thing about SG-Infinity is that i thought their wrist-lasers were adapted from Kull Warrior tech.
That would be really cool if that was the intent. I think the Kull were introduced before this show came out.
Personally, I think the issue with the Lucian Alliance is more the issue with SGU being set on a ship in a different galaxy rather than in the Milky Way. It makes sense that the Lucian Alliance, various Jaffa groups or any other advanced humans (roughly on par with Earth) getting alien tech would rise. But there is only so much that can be done when you’re not in the normal part of the literary universe. I know one of the reasons given as to why SGU was set on a ship was to increase risk to the crew. But, the galaxy is vast and 6 advanced starships doesn’t make Earth a galaxy spanning super power. I think they work well as a side antagonist, if they aren’t fleshed out. I kind of wish they allow Yu’s domain held itself together and didn’t become a part of the Jaffa Nation and then being antagonistic towards Earth and other powers. Short of an outside the galaxy threat or a century long time skip, a new series would be filled with minor powers vying for power and influence over the galaxy.
@thetrainhopper8992 that does actually sound kind of cool. Instead of some major power threatening the whole galaxy, have various smaller powers fight for control.
@@sg-24 you also need to take into consideration that Earth would never become a major power without making the Stargate public knowledge. Earths industrial capacity on its own probably shames most of the galaxy. Even if you retcon matter/energy conversion out of the universe, just the Asgard knowledge we do understand would enable us to solve climate change and pollution issues at minimum. But, they keep that knowledge hidden away.
Honestly, at this point I'll take anyone as the villains if it means more stargate.
The sad thing is the real villains will be the ones that make something for us and then mess it all up with new age woke, pc, garbage.
No thank you.
They have ruined all the major franchises already....
I would prefer re-watching the original 3 series and 3 movies than to see them screw it up and ruin it.
The little web series thing they did was horrid.
Stargate was already darn near perfect.
Strong characters, diverse characters, all working together to achieve greater things and not putting one down to make the other look good.
Ahhh...the days of good tv and movies.
@@heathb4319 yeah I agree.
That web series was awful, and all these reboots suck lately.
When there is a good opportunity to do a new series, like Seth McFarlane wanted to do for star trek, they get turned down. That one would have probably been great, and the Orville (which he did instead) turned out to be an amazing series once it found its footing.
Goa'uld in Wraith bodies the perfect villains 😂
@Ernest Lam they actually did that in some of the books in an alternate timeline.
@@sg-24 ...would that work with the mental component of the wraith?
I remember something along the lines of it may not work because the wraith could take over the gaould or something like that and since wraith can heal it doesn't need a symbiote and because of the wraiths mind altering abilities the gaould could'nt control it or something along those lines.
I just know the shows and movies...never read any of the books or alternate lore stuff.
@Heath B honestly I’m not sure. At fist the two could join b/c of the naqauda in the Gou’ald’s biology. While a way was found both parties had equal control.
@@sg-24 ...ok. I have always wondered what a Goa'uld/Wraith mix would be like. I will have to look into it further.
And congratulations on the channel growth.
It is growing faster and faster.
@@sg-24 I could see it working if it was more of a symbiotic relationship than a parasite-host one. Just imagine if a Goau'ld breeding queen was able to take a Ha'tak and somehow made it to the Pegasus Galaxy, taking with her as many Jaffa, slaves and naquada as she can carry to set up a new empire far away from her many enemies in the Milky Way. There she bumps into a badly damaged hive ship, where a Wraith queen had just retreated after being pummeled by one of her rivals. The two queens meet and they decide to do the unthinkable. Which is the Goa'uld queen leaves her human host body and enters the Wraith queen, but instead of taking possession, they become partners like a Tok'ra-host relationship. This new Wraith-Goa'uld hybrid queen starts pumping out new larvae, that are then implanted into new batches of Wraith drones, becoming Wraith-Jaffa. The Goa'uld queen also shares her species's technology, which are then synergized with Wraith technology. And just like that we have a powerful new villain for the heroes to take down.
Fleshing out Telford'[s speech into villain motivations gives you something similar to the Emerald Chain from Star Trek Discovery season 3.
@Anthony Consalvo sadly I never go into Discovery and only know the bare minimum of the Emerald Chain. They’re like an evolution of the Orion Syndicate right?
@@sg-24 They are basically the syndicate but 1000 years in the future. Just a multi species alliance of criminals/mercenaries/gangsters.
@@sg-24 Definitely an evolution of the Syndicate. The writers use them effectively to juxtapose the Federation ideals with the new tougher reality. Imagine Telfords speech to a member of Starfleet and you have a nice approximation of S3 of Discovery.
i don't consider books canon
The Lucians can work, the problem is that their motivation is unjustified/dumb, if we had the Wraith in the milkeway galaxy ravaging worlds that used to be protected by the goa'uld they could work, blaming Earth that they lost their protectors. The problem is that the Goa'uld are just evil and oppressed every world they conquer (cartoonist evil), in season 1 they actually showed us a high class of slaves withing the Goa'uld slave system (then they ignored it). SG1 biggest problem is that they wrote the show season to season (episode to episode) and never asked themself if it all fits together, that's why I love Atlantis more as a whole it makes more sense, it's better structured, while SG1 has better 1 time episode (that bring new concepts and ignore them for the rest of the show). The older I get the more hot takes I have about Stargate, but I still love the show.
What's the difference between a government and a gang.
One is just viewed as legitimate.
😂
Governments are usually much more organized and much longer lived, and able to do much longer term projectS. The New York mob is never going to be seen as a huge threat to a country, and ultimately, a gang is a business. Hell, the mob actually helped the United States government in World War II, since it was in there, mutual advantage. Basically a gang is a tick That sucks blood away from a government/society
@@mahatmarandy5977 ...except for MS13...that group needs to go...with prejudice.
@@heathb4319 what’s MS 13?
@@mahatmarandy5977 you will have ot research that yourself...this woketube wont let me comment on them
But true evil is one word to describe them.
for me the Goa'uld was always one of the worst villians in the show mostly because they big them up as this all powerful evil faction but we never seem them be very agressive expecally early on in the show when earth was still very weak, there was only really 2 major attacks on earth 1 by appothis and one by anubis, and yes anubis did come with a load of ships but held back because worries of a super weapon appothis on the other hand was said to be one of the most powerful in his time but only sent 2 ships and only tried one attack why. what i would have loved is if after the ori you got a new super agressive Goa'uld one out for revange, even if his empire is small he could have used the ori tech (we know they are scavanger race) to lead his new crussade not caring so much about the consuqences they just want the galaxy to burn after them being defeated
also it would be super cool to see a Ha'tak with a ori beam weapon mounted into it, like if it was a flagship as well that would a bit too op to be on every ship
I feel like, in the absence of their gods, some other religions would have risen up to fill the void. Sure, the goauld were horrible evil nasties, but people still worshiped them, and real people in the real world have put up with much worse abuses from religions through history and continued to be faithful. We know from history (cough cough Christianity, Islam, Scientology cough cough) that some of those can get pretty culty. Given the way in which the goauld were taken out, I could easily see a mix of things rising:
* Humans pretending to be a goauld (specific or someone new) and raising a cult around themselves.
* Humans claiming to be, like, ascended Ancients or just "true gods" or prophets of true gods to raise a cult around themselves. All they'd really need is enough charm, maybe some other tricks, but people would be desperate for something to believe in. They could be modeled after megachurh pastors.
* Humans coming up with new religions with new gods you can't see or hear because they're too good for this whole "base material world" thing similar to gnostic Christianity.
* LOTS of people continuing to worship dead goaulds, insisting their god simply Ascended or something. (Or maybe going the Hindu route of "oh that guy was just the latest incarnation of our god. He'll be back in a new body." Which TBH the goauld did a lot sometimes anyway, taking hosts was their whole deal.)
* As much as the Ori were interesting, I think it would have made more sense and been a better message for a monotheistic or bitheistic religion or ten to have risen up organically the way Christianity did, and then end up just as bad as the goauld because TBH that's how most monotheistic religions end up anyway. At least the ones that get enough power.
* No doubt some people would worship the members of SG1 as saviors. I can easily see people worshiping Daniel Jackson especially, as he literally did Ascend and then return. (OMG can you imagine the chaos if he had Ascended in front of some of those impressionable people?) This would be even more likely after he also helped take out the Ori.
* Possibly a few "cargo cults" popping up? People worshiping p-90's?
* The most harmless groups would probably just be like "frick it, we're worshiping the sun and the moon. At least they're real, do real good for us, and are not especially cruel."
In short, instead of one group rising to the top so easily, it should've been decades or centuries of chaos as a bunch of new religions duke it out. Especially when you consider the fact most people don't know how to operate goauld tech, and even if they did, they wouldn't be able to repair it or replace it. That could leave the stargates the only viable option for travel between worlds, isolating most planets somewhat. And at least some of those people might be like "You know, we don't want anyone else coming here and messing up what we got by trying to conquer us, let's bury the gate."
And another thing: even the jaffa filling the power void would have made more sense than the Lucian Alliance, since they were the hands of the goauld to begin with.
@Faynora really good comment. Defiantly wish SG did explore more aspects like this. Like the humans pretending to be the old gods, as we did see Vala do it. Just something I’d though I’d mention through is that in the books a group of Lilin believe in this savior figure and one of them thinks it is Daniel.
after the Goa'uld, Wraith, and Ori, they were kind of boring. Honestly after Anubis i found regular Goa'uld (Baal) boring.
@Cern Stormrunner you have insulted the name of your god (Baal), your punishment with be merciless. 🙃
I disagree with Goa ulds you have the Advantage of using mythology flavor also after the downfall of Most systemlords WE can Showcase different Types of Goa ulds , Not every Goa uld is the Same with the Same Goals and you can Play around a bunch
Yeah, i have to agree, the Lucian alliance. suddenly posing a threat while rocking nothing more than goa'uld level of tech, which compared to humans level of tech during this time, would be the equivalent of being a bowman fighting a ww2 soldier.
goa'uld tech at this stage of the franchise is of Zero threat anymore. their once called "motherships" are less powerful than a single jumper, given that jumpers can take out Hive escorts. which are certainly more powerful than a ha'tak, going by how many hits a hive escort takes from the x304s. yet a ha'tak can not take a single beam blast.
if they came up with their own ship designs, an amalgamation of goa'uld ha'tak and crossed with say Anubis mothership, then sure. i would say they would at least pack a punch, but still. even an Anubis Mothership is still magnitudes behind ori ships, which the x304s can very easily dispense with. so even then they would still be weak compared to humans. and as far as we know the Lucians had no to little access to any other advanced tech
The goa'ulds we're Always better also the Jaffa , These Dudes came Out of nowhere and somehow took over Part of the goa'uld empire how? In the goa'uld empire the Peak was goa'uld, followed by the Jaffa and at the bottom Humans, If you think the Jaffa were enslaved its nothing compared what the goa'uld did to the Humans, when even teal'c a First Prime to a goa'uld systemlord didnt know much about goa'uld Tech how the hell do Humans know anything besides how to Mine naquadah?
Agreed, while some humans might be smart enough to workaround the system, I don’t think they would come out as a Walmart brand Hutt Empire.
Their hasnt been a new stargate for like 10 years
@Steven LDOE well that was Orgins…..😂😂😂😂 sorry I could say that with a straight face.
True, but there are rumors in the works that Amazon is going to make a new show. Supposedly even the writers of the expanse want on board.
Loved the wraith.