1/200 USS Enterprise CV-6 Video 19 movie
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- čas přidán 12. 06. 2024
- I've been developing a set of "Items" that would occupy the hangar deck of US Navy Carriers during WWII for our Enterprise build. I'll show you what I've come up with so far but really I'm looking for more thoughts and ideas. That is what today's video is all about.
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As a Navy veteran of 22 years we never loaded ordnance in the hanger 1973 to 1995. Bombs could have been in the hanger waiting to be moved up to the flight deck. The way flight ops worked on those straight deck carriers as aircraft landed they were moved forward of the barricade until everything was aboard. Then all the aircraft that would fly again would be respotted aft for launch. Any plane that needed maintenance would be struck below most likely on the forward elevator. All aircraft were moved by people power. They didn’t have flight deck tugs until 1943 when heavier aircraft TBFs, F6Fs, F4Us and SB2Cs made them necessary. Early Wildcats F4F-3s and Dauntlesses wings did not fold. F4F-4s wings did. The hanger would have had an open path in order to move aircraft forward and aft. The tool boxes we had when I first got to a squadron looked a lot like my dad's fishing tackle box. The lids formed a peak like a house, they opened in the middle and trays folded out usually two layers with big tools in the bottom. Ours were painted in squadron colors. I imagine gray would be a likely color in WWII. We had a small roll around box that stayed in the shop. It was only used for connector repair. Our shop was on the 03 level it would have been too difficult to take down and back up every time we needed to use it. When we moved ashore we hauled that thing up to the flight deck and begged for an elevator run to get it to the hanger if we had to carry it down we took all the drawers out and tied a rope around it to lower it down the ladder. I never saw roll around boxes except in the ship's shops but they didn't put them in the hanger bay.
I've got lots from when my dad was in service, his CPO was in service during WWII. They had jeeps on most carriers to do odd jobs. They came i yellow, light grey, and sea blue. They would help tugs, would move parts around the ship etc. Some of the engine stands were of the lattice variety with a chain fall in the middle and a framed square tube steel stand, colored grey and the stand black. They also had interior hangar cranes that resembled the battleship violations cranes only on dollies, also a grey color. Most toolbox according to my dad were either black, red or grey with ships divisional markings check the different colored caps. The 55 gallon drums came in three colors red, black and blue, depending on what it's chemical composition. Red was flammable, black combustible, and blue for oil products of high heat tolerability. Oh and avgas was in black barrels with white lids. Another thing you could add jeep motors for auxiliary air compressors, which would have been Ford jeep motors with two of it's cylinders capped for air supply, they were painted the dark Ford blue. Don't forget the air and gas lines strung along the margins of the deck in black gas and red air.
I forgot to mention there is a book it's old but you might want to get a hold of Squadron Signals Detail in scale: Dauntiless Dive Bomber it has pictures why aboard one of the Yorktown class aircraft carriers in 1940. I know it's early but the equipment should be what your looking for.
Uh, wow.
In yeah I looked through the pdf version of the book I mentioned, it was written by the Squadron writing team, but not produced by them. Also the book only has two usable photos. Squadron did write a Walk Around book that shows an aircraft tug, but not the standard Ingersoll-Rand one. It also has a pick of an engine stand elsewhere. The Steven Ewing book has photos of Enterprise's hangar, but it's empty of anything.
Hi Ben and Nora, just saw your video 18 on CV-6. Amazing as always, great content and well spoken and videoed. Very much appreciate your work and ethics. Very inspirational.
PS all the products I have purchased from you have been well received and appreciated 🍻
My uncle was a Seaman 2nd class a plane mechanic and he told me his toolbox was a gray in color some drums were black with white tops with printing on them work ladders tow bars wheel chocks that's as far as he can remember is 86 years old
FYI...the man that designed the bomb carts for the US for WWII, and the basic design still in use today was Ray Harroun, the first winner of the Indianapolis 500 in 1911
You need some big fire extinguisher bottles on wheels. A couple fork lifts and a pallet jack. Plus plane tug
I look forward to seeing your finished products!!! Nice work!! I have the 1/200 Yorktown that I will build later and would be interested in purchasing your products!!!!!
Ladders to work on the aircraft !
Don’t forget air hoses. Typically, a hose would be run from the side wall to a pig where multiple lines would then go to several people using them.
Stowing some of the planes on the ceiling inside of the hanger
How about some type of rolling ladders ? Looks great 👍🏻👍🏻
Tanks for welding plus oxygen tanks need possibly forklift with the pallets or tug
Looking around at reference there were a lot of ladders and sawhorses too.
Also when I was doing my build Ben the lack of decals. Warning signs above doors and on the flight deck, and in the hanger bay.
Flight Gear Lockers, Equipment Lockers, Tool Cages, Aircraft Tow Bars, Aircraft Tow Tractors, Flamable Storage Lockers, Canopies, Props, Welding Tanks, large Fire Extinguisher Tanks. Spare aircraft control surfaces (flaps, rudders, elevators).
WW11 Navy- GRAY everything, drums, tool box s etc Colors had purposes red or yellow= Danger
Warehouse storage shelving with mixed packaging/boxes, large mail bags, cargo netting. Timber to replace wood decks for damage control. Sections of Marsden Matting (Used for creating runways on land during WWII).
ya need a hole bunch of fork lifts an pallet jacks a tiers an some fuel tanks on pallets
If l may give you a suggestion don't put boxes in front of the bomb elevator for the rest your built it's great l'm doing the 1/350 CV-5 Yorktown at Coral Sea
Hi ben …try dipping your clear parts in Johnsons Klear or AK does something similar ..cheers
The barrels were probably Navy gray (battleship gray). Also, the tool boxes would be gray. Think of Army -- most of their stuff is olive drab. For Navy, that translates to haze gray.
Many good suggestions here, like the Jjeeps and some tractors and forklifts to move the havy equipment around. But something that came to my mind immediately is damage control equipment, like fire hoses and extinguishers on the walls, as well as some first aid kits (maybe even some gas masks altho i don't know if they were stored openly on some racks on the walls in the hangar or in lockers). Also some racks of gas cylinders (i recall a bunch of those also being spread around the Missouris superstructure) could add a nice little splash of color.
Another item that was carried by many us warships are just straight wooden planks in different sizes for quickly shoring up or blocking holes and other field repairs to keep the ship operational after taking some damage until it is out of danger. Those were just stored pretty much anywhere where there was some free space without them being in the way of anything. Might be an interesting little detal to have a bunch of planks here and there against some wall or in a corner, those could probably be done easily with some styrene strip, they wouldn't even necessarily need to be precisely cut to length.
The wood planks would also be used to repair the flight deck if damaged in an attack.
exactly that
Squad of Sailors in Formation getting shift briefing. Group of sailors playing cards on a crate. 55 Gallon dums (mixed colors, usually black gray, white, possibly yellow).
You might want some engine hoists. They would be 2 A-frames with an I-beam between them and a chain hoist in the middle. Also some tow vehicles for towing planes and equipment. Of course fork lifts and maybe little utility trailers for moving tools and parts. Many of the items would be yellow for safety visibility. Lube oil drums might also be yellow. An engine hanging on a hoist being removed would be interesting. There is probably also safety stripping on the deck and warning signs on bulkheads.
Since the SBD’s did not have folded wings, they actually hung them from the ceiling. There was a rod going through the fuse middle fwd of the horz stab. I have a photo somewhere. Engines would never be on a pallet, they would have been in a yellow stand. The SBD has jack points under the wing behind the gear for maintenance. The jacks would have been a tripod with center actuator all pained yellow. You will also need yellow propeller stands where two props would be stored. Expect control surface removal for repair/replacement. Hope that helps a bit.
Fire extinguishers, fire hoses, gas bottles, like what the Missouri had on deck, miniature clip boards on the bulkheads.
I think bombs would have been fused and loaded on deck but im not sure where they were stored. Did the hangar deck have overhead cranes, chains and lifting gear. My grandad used to make timber jigs that were used to assemble the aircraft but he was land based and not part of the navy so im not sure they would be the same.
What about fire extinguishers etc.
Great model, looking forward to seeing it finished.
Best wishes to you from NZ.
Somewhere in the hangar was a giant scorecard on the wall where they added up the damage they inflicted at different battles. I think that would be a solid add. You can find pictures online.
I’m loving following this project. I have a 1/350 Big E I’m hoping to start this fall. Tell you what, if your 3-d print of those accessories ever became available in 1/350, I could guarantee at least one sale. Not that that would help you out a ton……
If your doing the "Big E" during the Battle of Midway, she would have had TBD Devastator torpedo planes. Not Avenger's ! Although the Avenger did make it's dayview at that battle, they were flown to Midway Island from Hawaii a couple of days before the battle.
I was planing November 1942. I have some photos from them. I know the air wings and most of the PE set that I have from Pontos “should” apply.
Hi Ben. I can't speak necessarily about USN carriers but I have some images of ours if that's any good. I'm not sure those tall tool boxes would have been around given the possibility of them rolling around in high seas. But definitely need some fire buckets, chains, wooden tressel A frames etc. I'm more than happy to share some images I have of ours if that's any good
I was watching a video on the wreck on Hornet and there's an almost perfectly preserved tractor in the hanger bay right next to the door, it's sitting upright and everything so maybe is was somehow secured down at the time of the sinking.
Great ideas. I'm working on 1/350 Hornet which everything is smaller, how to make these things?, and make look right. I think we are all looking for help.
I would say a few planes in various stages of repair. I.E. engine swap with an portable A frame gantry crane and / or scaffolding over wings. Maybe painting after repairs. This would be big enough to see and get the gist of what's going on. Leaves all sorts of room for the tool boxes and crates ect.
Perhaps put the engines on the pallets and create some straps to 'secure' them?
Lol...made that comment at about 9 minutes....see that you're way ahead of me!
pretty sure that was haze gray an the Greece was green for the engineering spaces
If you want it to be realistic, I think you should start with the actual number of aircraft on board during deployment. Unless you have lots of planes on the flight deck, the pics I’ve seen show the hangar deck was packed with aircraft almost to the exclusion of much else you’d actually be able to see through the small openings in the side of the hull.
I’ve thought about that. The TFB squadron at the time had 18 aircraft. If I was to try and fit all of them in the hangar deck it would be really tight. I think we will have to assume some of the Wildcats are flying CAP. And I’m not sure what we’ll do with the Dauntless…
I have 60 planes for my Enterprise, lol.
I recommend wooden ladders, cant work on a war bird without one. Also, from pictures I have seen of ww2 hanger decks, the chain falls are hanging from the ceiling, not on big support gantrys. Deck space at a premium and all. Now, from my understanding most of the air wing that was ready for flight would be parked in the aft portion of the hanger deck due to using the aft elevator for launching, the fwd elevator for recovery. Middle of the hanger deck was more used for maintenance. In Nov 42 Enterprise's fwd elevator was disabled from a bomb hit during the battle of Santa Cruz. Most of the aircraft were doing rearming on Henderson Feild. So maybe don't stress to much about having a full hanger deck.
I didn’t think TBM’s were on board any flat tops at the time of Midway. A squadron did fly out of Midway but none had been assigned to any carriers yet. When I researched my CV8 I found that much or the deck equipment was painted a blue-grey color.
I’m doing November 1942.
Sorry, missed that. Big E had a long history.
I hope so that all this stuff will be available in your shop. I'm in the middle of build same model.
I’m thinking eventually it will be.
Use some Mr surfaceser to knock the panel lines out of the planes. Try some floor polish on the clear if it doesn't affect the 3D resin.
You need fire fighting hoses..afff system..CO2 bottles..did they have hanger bay dividers doors..hose reels
I can't say for sure, but I think the toolboxes would be more like a "handyman" tool box. I know when i was in the navy during the 90's we only had small toolboxes that had to be checked out for aircraft maintenance. I would think it would be the same back then. Roll around boxes would also become a hazard as the ship rolled and pitch, unless they were tied down. Bombs would not be loaded in the hanger bay, too much of a fire hazard. However the dollys might have been stored in there.
Ammo boxes, Work stands, small A frame hoist (not sure about this). TBFs should be available as online files ready for 3D printing. Fire hoses on the walls, decals on the walls with warnings, Squadron emblems. All of these are ideas to explore, not necessarily a definite.
My ideas for you: cranes and winches to lift heavy equipment, weeled frames to help removing engines. Removed wings to get patched (welding and patching flack holes). Planes hanging on chains to change the landing gear. Have you seen the picture of the Torpedo hatch that is near the midle elevator. 4 sailors are pushing the torpedo in a small gangway. The top is open to the hangar deck and a chain is hanging from a winch to get the torpedo out and onto a weeled chart on the hangar deck to be transported to a TDB1. So the arming with torpedos was done on the hangar deck and not on the flight deck in the early phase of the war. 50. cal's where checkt by fireing from a mount places on the starbord side. If i remember rigt last rolldoor before the aft elevator.
I have to think a bit for more ideas.
Nice build so fare.
I like it
greeting
Hein Bagaluth
An other one ther is a foto where you can see a lot of propellers beeing stored in the hangar deck in front of the midle elevator where the wall is angeled because of the island.
Wanted to reach out, enjoy your channel & your work is wonderful & the carrier build was an excellent choice. Ideas of what you could add inside the carrier is aircraft propellers damaged & serviceable, vertical tail stabilzers, landing gear tires for the aircraft stacked up like you see @ a car tire shop, maybe these items are leaning up against the wall, maybe strapped/secured or possibly on the pallets. Couple of your mechanics actually working on an aircraft, large air compressor tank with airhoses for sheetmetal mechanics doing battle damage repairs, maybe some of the larger creates with the lids open & some mechanics/crew members looking @ them or inside of the creates.
Hope this helps. Stay safe.
Some type of engine stand/hoist would be good. Fork trucks? Pallet jacks? Torpedos?
Thanks for doing carrier parts I am doing 1/200 USS Hornet CV-8 so I will be looking for boxes,pallets,engines,and men.
'
Saw some pics of wings sitting on saw horses. Step ladders.
Pallet jacks, Paint sprayers, not sure if they did armament in the hanger or not, thought that was done on deck. Maybe not. What about the trucks that moved the planes about? Looks great!
I've seen photos of ordnance being moved about on the hanger deck.
How about a chain pulley in which one of the engines is put in?
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this but you could reach out to the Midway museum in San Diego. They may have some knowledge on the subject
Wooden sawhorses for makeshift benches and holding aircraft parts. including wings.
Don’t forget rugs, tow bars, chains, wheel chocks, fuel carts, refuel carts, crash/fire carts, lots of acetylene and oxygen tanks, and way more
Will you offer everything you’re making with the 3D printer, I have delayed my 1/200 Hornet to watch what you come across. Great job, keep going!!
Yeah the “plan” is to make all of this available assuming I can put together a nice “collection” of items that will actually work. I’m hoping in the next few weeks to have this all dialed in
Great vid and build
I was on the u.s.s. constalation cv-64 an u.s.s Nimitz cvn-68 them airdales had that crap all over the place bm2 chapman
Would not have had tooll boxes that can roll. Things are tied down. A rolling tool box could damage aircraft at sea. Barrels would have been painted light grey and usually 4 on a pallet. You need forklifts etc.
corsairs would look good.
The smaller bombs still work. SBD's could carry two smaller bombs, one under each wing, as well as their ubiquitous main bomb. You just need the bigger bombs and their carts represented.
Watch the movie on CZcams the fighting lady, it will answer some of your questions. some things you may wish to look up should be engine cranes and maintenance stands for removing and maintaining the engines. I worked on some of the old radial engines when I was in the Navy (73 thru 94), and we used what we called an L stand mount the engines while we fixed them. Also consider large round metal containers that the engines were shipped in and drop tank trailers to move them around. I hope this helps/
Was thinking the same but couldn't remember the movie name
They usually carried spare aircraft, dis-assembled hanging from the overhead.
Ben not 100% sure but I believe all them areas would be sectioned off into like mechanics areas cleaning areas shops like that and they're probably should be cabinets for flammable liquids toolbox colors and everything not sure about they would probably be like engine hoist overhead I would probably be an area for like your 500 lb bombs 1000 lb bombs
The barrels I would go with tan or green like a light green tool boxes spit balling but maybe like a light navy blue lighter than the ship so there's color variation signs like no smoking ammo points fire hoses extinguishers welding bottles definitely and engine or two wood sidings of a crate like they took a box apart I imagine there's area where they were doing weapon maintenance maybe some guns on a some benches
I had found a picture online somewhere of an F4F-3 undergoing maintenance in the hanger that can forward to you. it shows the toolbox they use as well as the area by the funnel inside the hanger with a ton of propellers by the elevated walkway. I also found a photo of someone working on one of the lights and the elevated platform they used for that type of thing. I will send you a message on your website to give you my email if you are interested.
I have some Trumpeter TBD-1 after market aircraft as well as the F4F-4.
I don't know for sure, but I think all the every day tool boxes etc would just be gray. Anything colored red probably meant danger or explosive or flamable. Small tractors, overhead chains, pallet jacks, forklifts etc would all be inside. Everything not in use would be secured to prevent it from tumbling or rolling around as the ship plowed through the sea. Those bombs look too small.
Those wooden pallets and crates are fire hazards, and would not have been allowed. Also probably the drums. Also remember that ships are always moving up and down, and everything has to be secured to prevent it from moving about. Especially things on wheels.
If it was the Akagi, you could just litter the floor with bombs and torpedoes on carts, along with fuel hoses all over the place, with crews working frenetically to rearm the airplanes with torpedoes and leave the bombs haphazardly all over the place. That way it would look as if they were Midway through an operation....
Workbench
Short stack of deck planks for deck repair .
Nice 😁
Lots of rigging, A-frame gantry’s and engine gantry’s. Replacement prop assemblies and landing gear stowed on the walls.
And FYI - Dauntless wings don’t fold. Wildcats, TBFs, TBMs, Hellcats - yes.
SBD-1 don't I'm not sure if SBD-2, but my Hasegawa 1/48 SBD-3 came with folding wings.
@@KeithFletcher-po4wy Carrier based SBD'S (all) could fold the last 1/3 of their wings. That 1/3 could also be removed for the storrage unter the hanger roof. There are some good pics from the deliverys the Enterprise was doing right before Perl Harbour. In that pictures 2/3 of the wings is removed from 2 SBD's hanging from the celling behind the middle elevator. So right behind the landing gear. Even in the 1/200 models you can see the line where the last 1/3 could be folded up for soring in the hanger deck. You could also see the line where the most part of the wing could be disassembeld for the storing under the celling.
I read through all the comments ad didn’t see cutting torches or wielding carts.
Thank you! I was thinking about that too!!!
Would they have done any machining on the hanger deck? If so maybe a lathe, milling machine, drill press, bench grinders, etc, set up with some work benches along a wall.
They actually had special rooms for this deeper in the ship.
@@KeithFletcher-po4wy Thanks for the info.
Plane tractors if they used inWWII I wouldn’t think they manhandled the planes around the hanger
Tractors and pallet movers
There are some 1/200 scale TBF Avengers online for sale, just not Trumpeter. Very cool you're designing your own. I'd buy some for my kits if you put them out there for sale.
Can you tell us where you saw these?
Lead Pursuit Podcast says they have resin TBF's for $7.00. Shapeways.com is another one. Hope this helps.
an they was all stored in number two hanger bay back by the aft bulk head
Rails and chains hanging from the ceiling to hoist stuff. Hoses - for water, fuel, fire retardant.
Have pallet movers, fork lifts, rolling scaffold steps,pulleys and chains hanging from above.
If you have pallets, you need a forklift.
State Flags hanging from the trusses.
Hanger decs wanted to be pretty clan and un-cluttered. Recall that, if you needed to clear aircraft below, you had to empty the spaces under the elevators, and jam all the birds out of the way. So, every thing in the hanger might move from one side or one end to the other over a given 4 hour watch. The hanger is also some distance above the center of buoyancy, so, any roll or pitch is like to slide stuff across the deck, so keeping theings lashed down is pretty necessary.
Back in WWII era, most toolboxes were black, plain black. Painting them in colors was a post war sort of thing. Now, that does not mean that the Ordnance guys might not have a red on their boxes, an purple on the engine/fuel stuff, and so on.
Remember there's a lot of 'ship' below the hanger deck. So, stores can be brought up a pallet at a time on specific elevators, so, no need to scatter such around on the deck at all. Ditto fluids, tanks are numerous below deck, and a pipe fittings and hoses are much simpler than drums and crank pumps. Further, all Ordnance is stowed below in Magazines, and brought up on specialized lifts, and only to need.
Now, that's tough for a situation where you want to "see something" when looking in the hanger.
So, here's a notion, they would set up a screen and run instructional film strips. Modeling this means a bunch of near identical guys in folding metal chairs. Also, Carriers, as they were "cruiser sized," carried an entire Company (168) of Marines. So, you could have a Platoon (40) or a Squad (14) of Marines doing Calisthenics, which was common on the hanger deck. Could just have guys painting wings or drop tanks or flap assemblies set up on wood saw horse over tarps on the deck, too.
You need a forklift.
I’m not positive but I don’t think they loaded aircraft with explosives on the maintenance deck all weapon ordnance uploads were done on the aft master deck or ready line to avoid accidents inside the ship close to and including aircraft fuel and munitions. Just sayin and assuming . I was USAF and it’s kinda the way they think , I don’t think that’s changed much over the years