Facts that's what happened to them at midway and the battle of the Phillipine sea they lost the cream of their airmen as well as by then we were developing new planes that were better than the zero. The writing was on the wall by then
@@jamesstevenson9056 no they won those battles with effectively equivalent tech. The historical navy CZcamsr Drachinifel has videos about those battles if you are interested
The loss of 300 pilots would have hurt the Japanese more than the loss of the slow battleships hurt us. The Japanese training schools only produced 100 new pilots/year, and even that was unsustainable at that time. Their losses would have radically altered the entire war in the pacific.
@kogaryu5558 Knowing the Japanese, they wouldn't pull out at all, but the aftermath of the battle would crippled the Japanese navy to the point of no return much sooner than the historical Midway battle.
@@avandarkwalker9132 fr. Everybody mentions the carriers lost at midway which is true, but the aircraft and the veteran pilots were arguably the most important asset lost at midway. Over 600 planes gone in 1 battle.
@@_hunter_hunter1048That didn’t change how much of an industrial power house the US is to out produce the Japanese in all aspects of the war in the Pacific and European theatre. Japan even knew it could not defeat the US but merely wanted terms of a surrender that would lie in their favor. At the height of the conflict the US was building entire warships in just a couple of weeks. In comparison the US produced nearly 9,000 ships meanwhile Japan had constructed less than 600. With those numbers it’d be impossible for Japan to manage let alone win.
@@simpinatorthedestroyerofsi6056 it’s what it meant when used by the Roman army. It has a different meaning now. That’s happen with lots of words, for example audio no longer means ‘I hear’ nor does video mean ‘I see’.
@@jasonrhodes9726 And the second wave would have been cut down similar to the first. If it's true there were 2 waves that means roughly half the targets for the CIWS to engage over each encounter. They would have been much more effective twice.
@@madmardagan2059 its been a long time since I read it but they were calling them streams. Two streams left the carriers then the first stream slip into two and they approached the islands, one continuing east and the other moved south before turning back east. Their attack came from the west and the north. The second stream also split into two . One continued east and the other went south. \ Their attack came from the east and the south. The japs came from all four points of the compass.
Conclusion is based on many poor assumptions. "CIWs would intercept about 300 Japanese aircraft" but base would still be obliterated....nope. Attack force of 353 aircarft (in 2 separate waves an hour apart, split between between 2 different locations) included 274 bombers total. Fewer than 100 bombers over Pearl at any time. Ignore the bombless Zeros flying high cover, and destroy ALL the low & slow bombers. Afterwards, the remaining A6Ms can choose to attack with machine guns vs battleships, hope to meet USN fighters, or return to the carriers. Most likely the second wave would not attack at all, and the IJN fleet would withdraw.
Possibly, it would be a lot more, and more US aircraft on air it may a hell of a dogfight up there, i presumbly 25 japanese planes had survived and back to their carriers
Just to clarify what some people have already said. 300 Japanese aviators killed or wounded not returning to their carriers would equal all of their qualified naval fighters that had years and years of training and would leave a vast void that could not be filled. Japan would have probably lost the war 1944 or less.
Even if you send everythign in 2 waves... 300/350~ planes is a 85% loss. Pearl Harbor would have been damaged, somewhat, not destroyed. Maybe the battleships get sunk, but Japanese pilots didn't hit fuel/ammo depots that much, so the main important part would be extra operational, thus the CIWS would be a huge success.
All the attacked Japanese planes quantity was 363, and they attacked in two waves. So shouting out 300 would pretty much do most of the job Author do your homework
Not to mention that many planes getting blasted out of the sky that fast would have crushed the Japanese pilots morale. No way the attack would have been executed to completion.
@@protege1717yah cuz ciws is for battleships. The C-ram or “Cram” if for defending land. Also there would not be just one ciws or cram there would be 100+
There’s where you’re wrong it did not completely obliterate the base they missed all three aircraft carriers. They didn’t bomb the refueling station. They did not destroy all of the ships. They did not destroy the repairs. They did not destroy things so tactically. It was a failure.
Well tbf about the Carriers they weren't even present, plus the Japanese attacked in 2 waves ntm all split up in separate locations to bomb different bases so if each base had a couple C-RAMs the Japanese strike would've been obligerated.
300 would have been the overwhelming majority of the Japanese attack. Granted, a few dozen could still cause damage, but not enough to destroy the base. With losses that great, Japan would have suspended their campaign immediately and go on the defensive trying to recoup those losses. If memory serves, Pearl Harbor wasn't destroyed in the historical Japanese attack. I believe the oil/fuel depot, maintenance/repair hangars, sub pen, and admin hq were left largely undamaged and then runways were back to operational within hours. The main losses were half the battleships sunk (all but the Arizona were recovered and refurbished and went on to exact revenge in the later stages of the war) and half were serverely damaged. Their objective was sinking the carriers that were not in port at the time.
Pearl Harbor was not destroyed. Several ships were, yes, but the fuel farms, naval repair facilities, and submarine base were untouched, enabling the base to continue to operate while the other damage (which was extensive but not crippling) was repaired. Pearl Harbor was completely resotred in a matter or months, and all but three ships were repaired and returned to service.
Not proving your point wrong or trying to make you look like anything but most fans or some fans want to see how he does this and I’m pretty sure we would appreciate a video even if it is two minutes on how to do it and if he doesn’t do it, that’s just a womp womp for us
This is unrealistic, as the attack on Pearl Harbor came in two waves. The CIWS and C-Ram would have obliterated both waves, with little to no damage to Pearl Harbor or the Pacific Fleet. This would have led to the U.S. completely dominating the Pacific Theater afterward, since Japan would have suffered catastrophic damage after losing so many planes.
@@RandyRandomised You do realize that the CIWS and C-RAM are designed for use against aircraft that are more armored than WWII-era aircraft, as well as defending against missiles, which are faster than any WWII-era aircraft. The CIWS and C-RAM would have a much easier time against WWII-era aircraft. All it would take would be a few hits to the engines, along the wings, and the cockpit to knock WWII-era aircraft out of the sky. So no, it would not take a few thousand rounds to take them down. If it took a few thousand rounds to take them down, then the dogfights that happened during WWII would not have happened, as the interceptors, fighters, bombers, etc.. would have been far too heavy to maneuver, much less fly well.
If we consider this as a "real" addition, things don't actually change much even for the first waves. One of the biggest factors during the attack was the fact that we were caught by surprise, and what little warning we did get was ignored. CIWS can't shoot stuff if it's turned off in the harbor, just like nobody was manning the AAA on board the ships that day
@@Armoredunit Yeah, and i was was also thinking that if the first wave gets chopped up, the attackers will scatter, the second wave either doesn’t go in or comes in much more cautiously. Bombs are dropped from much higher altitudes, likely missing a lot more. More US planes get off the ground, more ships get out of their moorings and underway. The fleet takes way way less damage.
But, what if Joan of Arc had dragons? Or what about Nuclear Neanderthals? Or gun technology never takes off and the Zeros are firing arrows, through the propeller arc!!!!
Had a coworker who was a Navy guy who has a really good C-RAM story (land based cousin of the CIWS). I can't remember where he said he was stationed, but he was off the boat and getting into a base, started talking to one of the gate guys. He didnt know there was a C-RAM hidden, like, right there next to him and it went off. Said he had never hit the ground so fast and shat his pants so hard before.
If I remember correctly a C-RAM is not the land based version of a CWIS but instead designed to shoot down Rockets, artillery, and mortar shells, to be fair they are often packaged into one gun, just figured I’d clarify
That's how you know it's a real story... the dude didn't come off as a hero. I had a guy explain that during patrols in Vietnam, during rest breaks, he would just sit and cry in fear.
How do you plan around 1000s of rounds of 20mm being sprayed in your face?? Lol!! "Here Chuichi, you draw their fire and I'll bomb the ships??!!" "Chosin, why don't you jump up my ass??!!" "Asshole!!" Lol!!
The Japanese could have written it off as propaganda. Or simply think them not able to hold off the attack. It really depends on how much information they had on the things. And their own egos.
would fare worse. What really makes the ciws good is that it has radar. a man mounting a gattling wont do as much, not to mention CIWS already is a gattling with a very high rate of fire.
@@jeffbybee5207 not quite right.. moving target are actually much harder to hit.. escpecially ships.. if they would have been able to leave the harbor into deep water they would have waaaaay less casualities
@@nukaquantum7Harder to hit but not impossible. Three days after Pearl, IJN aviators would sink the British BBs Prince of Wales and Repulse as they steamed for Singapore. They sent 88 planes and lost 4. Military experts and historians have run war games to act out a scenario where the US does have advanced warning of the attack and most of them end with not only more of the battleships sunk, but also usually the Enterprise, Hornet, or Yorktown going to the bottom as well instead of remaining undiscovered by Japan. While the loss of life was terrible, and the islands aircraft contingent was gutted, Pearl actually wasn't as badly damaged as the photos and thus narrator makes it seem. The only two Battleships truly lost were the Arizona and Oklahoma. Arizona was gutted when a bomb set off her powder, and Oklahoma rolled belly up. Most of the other BBs were able to be repaired somewhat quickly. Aircraft too could be replaced. Key to pearls survival though we're its drydocks and repair yards, its fuel reserves, and the submarine pens, all of which went practically untouched. Within days of the attack ships were already being repaired, the carriers had fuel to get underway with, and US subs departed Pearl to begin hunting Japanese ships.
And the reduction initial effectiveness of the first two or three wave would have given the group more time to respond with their own aircraft and sailors would have gotten back to their ships and been able to push off. Drastically reducing the ability to strike all ships in a confined area.
According to historical data there were 100 ships in the harbor during the attack, each one will likely be equipped with two (one forward and one aft) Phalanx system (CIWS). At 1,500 rounds capacity each and the burst limiting rounds switch set to 25 rounds that's a total of 60 engagements per gun. Multiply that by two hundred that's 12,000 engagements against 350 aircrafts. Experience tells me they wouldn't have a chance many times over.
There is another issue that people dont talk about... Civilian deaths down range. Some civilians were hit by american machine guns because they were shooting upwards towards the planes and the missed bullets arced through the air and landed where civilians were. Japan flew planes over the island and attacked from the land side as well. A ciws would have dumped many times more rounds downrange towards civilians
The issue is the ciws would need to be reconfigured for the Japanese planes. The ciws are designed to hammer out at super fast targets. The Japanese planes are slow much less manuverable so you set the ciws to bust change target burst change targets.
If this was the case, I believe more friendly air craft would have been able to successfully launch and combat attacking forces. So I think the numbers of downed craft would have been greater.
The problem with "CIWS" is that it's used for short to intermediate range defense. If the barrels were extended such that the "CIWS" was meant for intermediate to long range defense as well as each system having it's own independent radar system set up in strategic areas around Pearl Harbor, more Japanese would have been shot down long before they made it to Pearl Harbor for the attack. In all probability, most of the planes would have retreated when a certain overwhelming number of their planes were shot down. If this many planes as well as pilots were lost at Pearl Harbor, it would have sent an overwhelming message to the Japanese military that they made a huge mistake, and now, the U.S. will be getting underway for a counter - offensive against Japan.
I have to note that the Japanese attack was focused on destroying the US carriers however they were out at sea so they focused on the secondary objective of the US battleship of which 3-4 were sunk but a few were refloated later in the war. Also they didn't all attack in 1 single wave instead they attacked in multiple waves
The UK won the Battle of Britain in 1940 by building a network of radar stations, human observers, and a centralized command center to consolidate the information and to dispatch fighter aircraft and alert anti-aircraft batteries. We didn’t effectively apply the this model in Hawaii in 1941.
Still a strategic win due to losing more than 75% of their naval AirPower would have stopped them from projecting force for many months while the allies would bolster defenses during that time.
Honestly given how bad the first wave would’ve been dealt the leaders of the attack probably would’ve pulled back the remaining waves to conserve their best pilots for another day.
Now imagine F-22s, F-35s, F/A-18s, F-16s, and F-15s providing combat air patrol along with all ships being replaced with the most recent Block of the Arleigh Burke class destroyer.... And land based C-RAM, Patroit, and Stingers.
@@michaelbeale559 We don't have to, actually. The recent Iranian retaliation to the bombing of their consulate by israel, showed that very scenario to whatever degree, that the modern air defenses/forces of multiple militaries even concentrated can be overwhelmed by swarms of comparably cheap unmanned systems.
@@NiceGuy-Nationalist That's because Israel didn't have anti drone defense's like the US has. Just throw up some radio jammers and those drones fall out of the sky. Wouldn't even mess with comms to much as those tend to be on a higher frequency.
um, quick reorder point. wave 1 gets annihilated. wave two catches the freshly activated ship board AA. provided wave one survivors don't scrub the whole operation. with the carriers not at pearl. and having kido butai half deplaned in a single strike. japan pulls the plug. the idea was to cripple the us fleet. you know what happens with kido butai deplaned at pearl? 6 months of the american carriers going on a rampage.
It also depends on which planes were destroyed. If the one that blew up the Arizona was shot down, almost 1,000 Americans would have survived. There may have been no second wave if the Japanese had lost 1/3 of the first wave.
400 AIM-9 Sparrows would do the trick before the Japanese Planes could come closer or use 4 Tomahawk Missles to each Imperial Japanese Aircraft Carriers.
🤔🤔🤔 The thing is the Army radar unit informed the Naval command that the Japanese planes were inbound multiple times. The Navel command ignored them telling the Army radar unit they were tracking bids and not planes. The navy dropped the ball that day.
Even IF the only the ships were protected by the CIWS there would have been sufficient ammunition in each one's magazine to take out all of the planes. Based on the fact that they are propeller, and piston engine, driven planes that very slow when compared to jet aircraft. They wouldn't even have to fire 100 rounds per plane. The first 20mm round that impacted the engine would blow it up, and destroy the airplane.
The thing that cant be accounted for is that with the CIWS acting as cover it would have given the sailors and soilders time to mount a better defense or possibel offense and reducing pearl's damages and losses even more. Ill inclued this to sense everyone else is. Yes the second wave probable would not have happened either or if it did the imperial navy planes would be next to nothing and imperial fleet would already have begun being hunter by all the extra ships that wouldn't have been sunk
The bases in Hawaii were more than capable of defending themselves with the hardware of the time. What was missing was imagination that the attack was possible and communication/coordination between the services. For example, if the same officer had received word that the experimental radar station had detected a large body of aircraft AND that a midget submarine had been confirmed within the harbor AND Washington’s telegram warning that the Japanese were going to sever diplomatic relations that day. There was no mechanism existing at that time to put all the pieces together.
Gotta remember it wasn't just Pearl Harbor attack, Wheeler Field close to Schofield Barracks and Kaneohe base was attacked. The tight formation of attacking planes would have easy targets. Doubt many bombs would have gotten close
It was not 354 planes at once. It was two waves with 100 zeros, 100 bombers and 27 torpedo bombers. Upon triggering the proximity systems the CWIS and the base would go on high alert. Every ship would be at battle stations with every gun manned and destroyers moving out of pearl to create a picket line. Every ground base MG would be tilted to the sky and the air base would be prepping fighters to launch. Upon range the initsl 100 zeroes would be cut down giving US naval fighters time to launch. With US warplanes and CWIS active the ships would have mauled the initial wave. Attack wave 2 was set to launch 2 hours after the firsf so they would be up in the air already. Minimal damage to the base would occur as the US naval fleet slowly moving out would now start hunting for the main armada of the IJN fleet. Once the 2nd wave comes into pearl every US fighter would be greeting them. Rougly 2 squadrons and 1 training squadron. The task would be to cut down the remaining fighters and then launch scouting planes if they havent yet. With the lapse of first flight, the IJN would be forced to break radio silence to call any plane...only to be met with silence and give a now pissed off 3rd fleet intel that they were still in the area. What would happen is probably the US navy slugging it out with the IJN...and with the Yorktown, Hornet, Enterprise, Saratoga and Lexington linking up... 5 fully stocked carriers vs 4... yea the IJNs surprise would be routed.
The first wave was 183 aircraft. 89 Torpedo bombers 51 dive bombers 43 fighters the second wave was a similar compostition. The fighters might've had a chance to survive using their maneuverability, but still unlikely. The bombers would have been annihilated quickly.
@@jesusofbullets Also, the Japanese forces were split, attacking Pearl but also Hickam & Wheeler airfields. Modern AA defenses would handle them easily.
they didnt all attack at once they attacked in 3 waves, and any survivors from the first would have said. "holy shit! dont go in there" the morale hit of seeing your friend obliterated by god knows what would force the fleet to rethink whats going on and head back home.
World War 2 is generally recognized as starting when Germany invaded Poland in Sept 1939. For some historians it started when the Japanese invaded Manchuria in Sept 1931. So, yes. The attack on Pearl Harbor did happen during WW2. Just not when the US was participating.
The start of WW2 isn't exactly a clear cut date. As the other poster points out, many chose 1939 and the invasion of Poland by the Germans(and soviets), but that is a mildly eurocentric view in many ways. Probably the next most common choice is the whichever of the various Japanese actions in Manchuria one prefers, as that conflict as the earliest start of the various conflicts that eventually merged into WW2. While these 2 are probably the best 2 options, they are hardly the only points one can choose. One can also argue WW2 started when the Japanese occupied French Indochina, as that is the point where the pacific/far east conflcit nominally first merged with the European conflict. Though, since said action had little real effect on Vichy France or the European theater, one could also argue for December 7/8 of 1941 when the Japanese attacked the holdings of Britain in east Asia and the pacific, as that was the first action where the major theaters all blended into a single war. Of course, the US wouldn't enter any theater but the pacifc, at least officially, until Germany declared war on the US, so the attack on pearl harbor itself doesn't mark the start of ww2 except from a very US centric point of view.
The use of any technology would have been known to the japanese. The pearl harbor attack was pre planned and the japanese even developed special missiles to use given the depth of the harbor. If this has been there, they would have overcome that too.
This reminds me of the movie, "The Final Countdown" where modern aircraft carrier USS Nimitz goes back in time to the day before Pearl Harbor was attacked. The F-14 Tomcats engaged some Japanese Zeros. Great movie starting Kirk Douglas and Martin Sheen.
Kopenki no kantai, but america is the one having advance tech. Edit:kopenki no kantai is a anime about alt ww2 where Japanese commander Yamato goes back in time before ww2 and help advancing the japanese Army which resulted Japan being the strongest ww2 nation, its a very good anime
the japanese had 3000+- skilled pilots right then and added 5000 pilots over the course of the war. the US navy air forces added 15-17000 pilots over the course of the war, that does not include the regular air forces
I mean this scenario is using radar technology almost 50 years in the future.. CWIS is radar guided. So let's take into account this scenario. Using modern radar technology in 1941. Under that assumption with tensions between Japan and the US strained after the oil embargo. The US would have been using this technology assumption and by the time those enemy planes would have been sited at least 50 miles out. The army and navy would have been mobilized and on high alert.
A Navy sub chaser attacked a sub that morning, a radar operator saw a formation of aircraft coming in and they classified it as B-17's coming in from the mainland.
CIWS doesn't do good against swarm attacks in such numbers . But losing 300 combat hardened naval aviators of the Japanese imperial Navy pretty much resets the timetable for the entire offensive of the Japanese !
Like the other comments, the Japanese didn't attack in a single wave, they split them up coming from 2 directions. In addition they were flying at barely 100 feet, just clearing obstructions. There's archival footage showing them at or below some buildings. So even if they had CIWS (nicknamed seewiz) they'd have had difficulty taking them out without causing collateral damage from friendly fire
Even with the loss of battleships, Pearl harbor was not destroyed as the repair facilities oil tanks were not hit. As the war progressed many ships were able to be repaired and returned to front without returning to the US.
The dry docks weren't hit either, which greatly helped getting the damaged ships repaired as quickly as possible. During the Battle of Leyte Gulf, battleships that were damaged or sunk at Pearl Harbor, then raised and/or repaired took part in the Battle of Surigao Strait, the last battleship vs battleship action in history. The US fleet absolutely DECIMATED the Japanese fleet attempting to sneak through the Strait.
The Achilles' heel of the CIWS is the long times to reload, this remains a problem to this day! Modern aircraft carriers have 3 to 4 CIWS and that's not enough!
I would think if the first wave got obliterated like that there would be no second wave and the Japanese task force would retreat, damage from the attack would have been minimal.
There’s no such thing as an impregnable fortress. What fortifications do is raise the cost of an attack. This is an excellent example of why the best defense is to have the battle take place as far away from the infrastructure as possible.
It depends on the placement of the CIWS, I think it will be more effective if several CIWS placed near the coast, giving some safe distance to the fleet it defend, make a multilayer CIWS defense
The loss of three hundred of the best pilots in the Imperial Japanese Navy is a mortal wound at the onset.
it would have meant that japan had essentially lost air superiority and its major naval pressure throughout the pacific
But it would never happen because the CIWS didn't exist in fricking 1941!!!
Facts that's what happened to them at midway and the battle of the Phillipine sea they lost the cream of their airmen as well as by then we were developing new planes that were better than the zero. The writing was on the wall by then
@@77mpickett But at the Battle of Midway and the Phillipine Sea the americans didn't have 21st century CIWS did they?
@@jamesstevenson9056 no they won those battles with effectively equivalent tech. The historical navy CZcamsr Drachinifel has videos about those battles if you are interested
The loss of 300 pilots would have hurt the Japanese more than the loss of the slow battleships hurt us. The Japanese training schools only produced 100 new pilots/year, and even that was unsustainable at that time. Their losses would have radically altered the entire war in the pacific.
True.
It's unrealistic to not factor human psychology.
The moment Japanese see and 20 die in seconds they'd pull out and avoid.
@kogaryu5558 Knowing the Japanese, they wouldn't pull out at all, but the aftermath of the battle would crippled the Japanese navy to the point of no return much sooner than the historical Midway battle.
They sacrificed 300 to kill 3000 ... yep
@@avandarkwalker9132 fr. Everybody mentions the carriers lost at midway which is true, but the aircraft and the veteran pilots were arguably the most important asset lost at midway. Over 600 planes gone in 1 battle.
@@_hunter_hunter1048That didn’t change how much of an industrial power house the US is to out produce the Japanese in all aspects of the war in the Pacific and European theatre. Japan even knew it could not defeat the US but merely wanted terms of a surrender that would lie in their favor. At the height of the conflict the US was building entire warships in just a couple of weeks. In comparison the US produced nearly 9,000 ships meanwhile Japan had constructed less than 600. With those numbers it’d be impossible for Japan to manage let alone win.
1st wave would have been decimated, 2nd too would have been decimated.
Decimate means 10% gone you should say oblitareted
@@kwestionariusz1that was the Roman meaning of the word but language evolves
@@somethingelse516you're wrong tho cuz that is literally what it means
@@simpinatorthedestroyerofsi6056 it’s what it meant when used by the Roman army. It has a different meaning now. That’s happen with lots of words, for example audio no longer means ‘I hear’ nor does video mean ‘I see’.
@@somethingelse516 no even in Military today IT means 10%
The attack happened in 2 waves
If the first wave was obliterated, a 2nd attack wouldn't happen
Thus minimal damage on pearl harbor
The Japanese would still have come, the Emperor told them to.
Have to call b******* on that story
@@jasonrhodes9726 And the second wave would have been cut down similar to the first. If it's true there were 2 waves that means roughly half the targets for the CIWS to engage over each encounter. They would have been much more effective twice.
@@madmardagan2059 its been a long time since I read it but they were calling them streams.
Two streams left the carriers then the first stream slip into two and they approached the islands, one continuing east and the other moved south before turning back east.
Their attack came from the west and the north.
The second stream also split into two . One continued east and the other went south. \
Their attack came from the east and the south.
The japs came from all four points of the compass.
@@jamessullivan7692 what do you mean?
Conclusion is based on many poor assumptions. "CIWs would intercept about 300 Japanese aircraft" but base would still be obliterated....nope. Attack force of 353 aircarft (in 2 separate waves an hour apart, split between between 2 different locations) included 274 bombers total. Fewer than 100 bombers over Pearl at any time. Ignore the bombless Zeros flying high cover, and destroy ALL the low & slow bombers. Afterwards, the remaining A6Ms can choose to attack with machine guns vs battleships, hope to meet USN fighters, or return to the carriers. Most likely the second wave would not attack at all, and the IJN fleet would withdraw.
And surely the US airfields would have been at liberty to get a decent number of US aircraft as airborne combatants
Possibly, it would be a lot more, and more US aircraft on air it may a hell of a dogfight up there, i presumbly 25 japanese planes had survived and back to their carriers
Just to clarify what some people have already said. 300 Japanese aviators killed or wounded not returning to their carriers would equal all of their qualified naval fighters that had years and years of training and would leave a vast void that could not be filled. Japan would have probably lost the war 1944 or less.
Even if you send everythign in 2 waves... 300/350~ planes is a 85% loss. Pearl Harbor would have been damaged, somewhat, not destroyed.
Maybe the battleships get sunk, but Japanese pilots didn't hit fuel/ammo depots that much, so the main important part would be extra operational, thus the CIWS would be a huge success.
If my grandmother had wheels....
She would have beem a bike 😂😂😂😂
If my mom had baaws she'd have been ma paw.
She’d be a wagon!
And if frogs had wings, they wouldn't bump there asses when they landed.
You must be fun at parties
@@philipschwichtenberg7532 You must be very intelligent in history class
@@MausHausOKW ?
@@philipschwichtenberg7532 LMAO, Exactly
All the attacked Japanese planes quantity was 363, and they attacked in two waves.
So shouting out 300 would pretty much do most of the job
Author do your homework
Not to mention that many planes getting blasted out of the sky that fast would have crushed the Japanese pilots morale. No way the attack would have been executed to completion.
@@JustLiesNOR And if the 5/38s, 5/25s, and other AAA plus interceptors were able to activate the damage would not have been anywhere near as bad...
And they did not obliterate the entire base.
Also to add if the CIWS was there it's logical to assume the land based C-RAM would have been present as well.
@@protege1717yah cuz ciws is for battleships. The C-ram or “Cram” if for defending land.
Also there would not be just one ciws or cram there would be 100+
There’s where you’re wrong it did not completely obliterate the base they missed all three aircraft carriers. They didn’t bomb the refueling station. They did not destroy all of the ships. They did not destroy the repairs. They did not destroy things so tactically. It was a failure.
Well tbf about the Carriers they weren't even present, plus the Japanese attacked in 2 waves ntm all split up in separate locations to bomb different bases so if each base had a couple C-RAMs the Japanese strike would've been obligerated.
300 would have been the overwhelming majority of the Japanese attack. Granted, a few dozen could still cause damage, but not enough to destroy the base. With losses that great, Japan would have suspended their campaign immediately and go on the defensive trying to recoup those losses.
If memory serves, Pearl Harbor wasn't destroyed in the historical Japanese attack. I believe the oil/fuel depot, maintenance/repair hangars, sub pen, and admin hq were left largely undamaged and then runways were back to operational within hours. The main losses were half the battleships sunk (all but the Arizona were recovered and refurbished and went on to exact revenge in the later stages of the war) and half were serverely damaged. Their objective was sinking the carriers that were not in port at the time.
3 Battleships were completely lost:
Arizona, Oklahoma, and Utah (tho Utah was a training ship at the time)
Oklahoma was eventually raised, but sank under tow back to the States. Tomato, tomatoh
Pearl Harbor was not destroyed. Several ships were, yes, but the fuel farms, naval repair facilities, and submarine base were untouched, enabling the base to continue to operate while the other damage (which was extensive but not crippling) was repaired. Pearl Harbor was completely resotred in a matter or months, and all but three ships were repaired and returned to service.
Wow
Man you should make a quick 2 minute video explaining how you do this
Then it won't be a short and the video will do very bad
Not proving your point wrong or trying to make you look like anything but most fans or some fans want to see how he does this and I’m pretty sure we would appreciate a video even if it is two minutes on how to do it and if he doesn’t do it, that’s just a womp womp for us
@billytonka2761 mission editor and you need a bit of learning to do on your own to get good at it
What if pearl harbor had been guarded by 20-50 pantsir s1
Trash AA, most of them got fucked up in Syria by the Turks with cheaper Drones 😂
they all miss
@@HipFire1they dont its just their engineering they look like they miss but its spreading shells
Yes they do @@heywoodchung3846
Lol pantsir is a joke .
This is unrealistic, as the attack on Pearl Harbor came in two waves.
The CIWS and C-Ram would have obliterated both waves, with little to no damage to Pearl Harbor or the Pacific Fleet.
This would have led to the U.S. completely dominating the Pacific Theater afterward, since Japan would have suffered catastrophic damage after losing so many planes.
Nah, they would ran out ammo before obliterating a wave
It's just too many for them to handle
@@RandyRandomised Not very likely, as each weapon is stocked with thousands of rounds.
@@fenrirgaming37 it has hundreds of thousands
But it takes a few thousands just to destroy one
@@RandyRandomised You do realize that the CIWS and C-RAM are designed for use against aircraft that are more armored than WWII-era aircraft, as well as defending against missiles, which are faster than any WWII-era aircraft.
The CIWS and C-RAM would have a much easier time against WWII-era aircraft. All it would take would be a few hits to the engines, along the wings, and the cockpit to knock WWII-era aircraft out of the sky.
So no, it would not take a few thousand rounds to take them down. If it took a few thousand rounds to take them down, then the dogfights that happened during WWII would not have happened, as the interceptors, fighters, bombers, etc.. would have been far too heavy to maneuver, much less fly well.
@@RandyRandomised Yes but that would be the case if it were modern missiles or modern fighters/bombers.
Fun fact if it was protected by CIWSs every ship would have at least 1 the BBs would have like 2 to 4.....so RIP the IJN aircraft
assuming you know that the Japanese didn't change their plans based on knowledge of the CIWS. No one is considering this
If we consider this as a "real" addition, things don't actually change much even for the first waves. One of the biggest factors during the attack was the fact that we were caught by surprise, and what little warning we did get was ignored. CIWS can't shoot stuff if it's turned off in the harbor, just like nobody was manning the AAA on board the ships that day
300!? That's literally the entire naval aviation unit of Japan so
Bye bye midway
That was my thought.
No Midway might actually prolong the war.
The American carriers could have run rampant with little enemy air opposition if the Kido Butai’s air wing had been so decimated.
@@joshuaverkerk4532 I Know
@@Armoredunit Yeah, and i was was also thinking that if the first wave gets chopped up, the attackers will scatter, the second wave either doesn’t go in or comes in much more cautiously. Bombs are dropped from much higher altitudes, likely missing a lot more. More US planes get off the ground, more ships get out of their moorings and underway. The fleet takes way way less damage.
And if the Aztecs would have had 20 AK47 rifles, then history would have been rewritten. These things are stupid.
Its worse that he didn't even do it right it wasn't the attack was done in 2 waves with half as many attackers per wave.
come on, this is a hypothetical. chill hahaha
Fr
@@cliffordsantillan6046 clicbait shit. more precisly
But, what if Joan of Arc had dragons? Or what about Nuclear Neanderthals? Or gun technology never takes off and the Zeros are firing arrows, through the propeller arc!!!!
Had a coworker who was a Navy guy who has a really good C-RAM story (land based cousin of the CIWS). I can't remember where he said he was stationed, but he was off the boat and getting into a base, started talking to one of the gate guys. He didnt know there was a C-RAM hidden, like, right there next to him and it went off. Said he had never hit the ground so fast and shat his pants so hard before.
Damn! Do you know why it went off?
@@904_noah I don't believe he told me that detail
If I remember correctly a C-RAM is not the land based version of a CWIS but instead designed to shoot down Rockets, artillery, and mortar shells, to be fair they are often packaged into one gun, just figured I’d clarify
That's how you know it's a real story... the dude didn't come off as a hero. I had a guy explain that during patrols in Vietnam, during rest breaks, he would just sit and cry in fear.
@@TheCrowShow827 You're not clarifying anything. You're just simply wrong.
A C-RAM ~is~ a land based Phalanx CIWS.
Time traveler: -picks a gun- the history:
To be fairer the Japanese would have to know Pearl Harbor had that capability and be able to plan around it with the resources they had.
How to plan around it: don’t attack
How do you plan around 1000s of rounds of 20mm being sprayed in your face?? Lol!! "Here Chuichi, you draw their fire and I'll bomb the ships??!!" "Chosin, why don't you jump up my ass??!!" "Asshole!!" Lol!!
You didn't plan around cows with old school fighters lol. You sure trying or you don't try
exactly
The Japanese could have written it off as propaganda. Or simply think them not able to hold off the attack. It really depends on how much information they had on the things. And their own egos.
What if the minigun development was advanced earlier in the 1940s to have that kind of rate of fire. Imagine the air to ground warfare is like.
miniguns would need to be mounted on a quadmount because of their small calliber size, if you wanted one you have to use a 20mm or more
Remember that Pearl Harbor was an intelligence and battle readiness fuckup, not a rate of fire fuckup
would fare worse. What really makes the ciws good is that it has radar. a man mounting a gattling wont do as much, not to mention CIWS already is a gattling with a very high rate of fire.
Is the target acquisition system that makes the weapon deadly. Not the fire rate
@@Ramtax ciws actually has a higher fire rate too. Its a gattling as well
Im convinced that if the battleships had running engines and fully manned stations, this battle would have gone waaaay different
If the ships had left the harbor they would have been sunk in deep water and lost permanently
@@jeffbybee5207 not quite right.. moving target are actually much harder to hit.. escpecially ships.. if they would have been able to leave the harbor into deep water they would have waaaaay less casualities
@@nukaquantum7Harder to hit but not impossible. Three days after Pearl, IJN aviators would sink the British BBs Prince of Wales and Repulse as they steamed for Singapore. They sent 88 planes and lost 4.
Military experts and historians have run war games to act out a scenario where the US does have advanced warning of the attack and most of them end with not only more of the battleships sunk, but also usually the Enterprise, Hornet, or Yorktown going to the bottom as well instead of remaining undiscovered by Japan.
While the loss of life was terrible, and the islands aircraft contingent was gutted, Pearl actually wasn't as badly damaged as the photos and thus narrator makes it seem. The only two Battleships truly lost were the Arizona and Oklahoma. Arizona was gutted when a bomb set off her powder, and Oklahoma rolled belly up. Most of the other BBs were able to be repaired somewhat quickly. Aircraft too could be replaced. Key to pearls survival though we're its drydocks and repair yards, its fuel reserves, and the submarine pens, all of which went practically untouched. Within days of the attack ships were already being repaired, the carriers had fuel to get underway with, and US subs departed Pearl to begin hunting Japanese ships.
What if the scenario was historically accurate and Japanese were coming in waves
And the reduction initial effectiveness of the first two or three wave would have given the group more time to respond with their own aircraft and sailors would have gotten back to their ships and been able to push off. Drastically reducing the ability to strike all ships in a confined area.
What if the time hole hadn't caught up the alpha strike the Nimitz had sent up to stop the attack?
Can only do so much with a simulation game
to be fair, if the Japanese know about the ships having CIWS that can easily shoot down planes, Pearl Harbor probably would have never happened.
@@cliffordsantillan6046then US not involved WW2, Japan and Germany won WW2
"Admiral Yamamoto, no airplanes have returned. Now what?"
"Well shit, I guess the giant was already awake"
So if you have 3 CIWs games over for the enemy. 3× 300 = 900 kills + under water modern protection you left out.
War thunder needs game modes/ events like this
How you make this situation in warthunder?
Alternate history I guess, or custom battles made by people like it's just a map with the turret and he added the Japanese planes as bots
According to historical data there were 100 ships in the harbor during the attack, each one will likely be equipped with two (one forward and one aft) Phalanx system (CIWS). At 1,500 rounds capacity each and the burst limiting rounds switch set to 25 rounds that's a total of 60 engagements per gun. Multiply that by two hundred that's 12,000 engagements against 350 aircrafts. Experience tells me they wouldn't have a chance many times over.
Someone has a lot of free time
Just a minute here. You forgot about the mini subs with torpedoes.
how do you do a simulation like this?
He probly used the m163
@@MD_THUNDERor the M-167.
Suddenly the Kido Buttai end up being a fancy disarmed fleet.
There is another issue that people dont talk about... Civilian deaths down range. Some civilians were hit by american machine guns because they were shooting upwards towards the planes and the missed bullets arced through the air and landed where civilians were. Japan flew planes over the island and attacked from the land side as well. A ciws would have dumped many times more rounds downrange towards civilians
But that isn't particularly the important part in war? Are they not supposed to shoot the Japanese Aircraft currently attacking them?
The issue is the ciws would need to be reconfigured for the Japanese planes. The ciws are designed to hammer out at super fast targets. The Japanese planes are slow much less manuverable so you set the ciws to bust change target burst change targets.
INCOMING INCOMING BRRRRRRRTTTT BRRRRRRRTTTT BRRRRRRRTTTT INCOMING INCOMING INCOMING BRRRRRRRTTTT BRRRRRRRTTTT
If this was the case, I believe more friendly air craft would have been able to successfully launch and combat attacking forces. So I think the numbers of downed craft would have been greater.
How would I set this up in war thunder?
Mods?or prefix lobby
@@akukuat101 what’s a prefix lobby?
The problem with "CIWS" is that it's used for short to intermediate range defense. If the barrels were extended such that the "CIWS" was meant for intermediate to long range defense as well as each system having it's own independent radar system set up in strategic areas around Pearl Harbor, more Japanese would have been shot down long before they made it to Pearl Harbor for the attack. In all probability, most of the planes would have retreated when a certain overwhelming number of their planes were shot down. If this many planes as well as pilots were lost at Pearl Harbor, it would have sent an overwhelming message to the Japanese military that they made a huge mistake, and now, the U.S. will be getting underway for a counter - offensive against Japan.
POV them: holy sh-
I have to note that the Japanese attack was focused on destroying the US carriers however they were out at sea so they focused on the secondary objective of the US battleship of which 3-4 were sunk but a few were refloated later in the war. Also they didn't all attack in 1 single wave instead they attacked in multiple waves
What about 2 CIWS?
He said there were multiple CIWS
Wouldnt have stand a chance
@HellfiereYT what about CIWS AND SAMs?
@@HellfiereYT how you make these things, please tell
@@HellfiereYTdid you simulate it in waves just like how it happened or did you just let the planes attack all at once?
That’s why those tomcats came from another time. 😂
This video gave me Yuri's Revenge flashbacks with all those Gatling Cannons. 😂
The UK won the Battle of Britain in 1940 by building a network of radar stations, human observers, and a centralized command center to consolidate the information and to dispatch fighter aircraft and alert anti-aircraft batteries. We didn’t effectively apply the this model in Hawaii in 1941.
Looks like Japan gon be having another sun...
Still a strategic win due to losing more than 75% of their naval AirPower would have stopped them from projecting force for many months while the allies would bolster defenses during that time.
Honestly given how bad the first wave would’ve been dealt the leaders of the attack probably would’ve pulled back the remaining waves to conserve their best pilots for another day.
Now imagine instead of Zeros, it's a swarm of modern kamikaze drones mixed with their conventionally armed counterparts.
Now imagine F-22s, F-35s, F/A-18s, F-16s, and F-15s providing combat air patrol along with all ships being replaced with the most recent Block of the Arleigh Burke class destroyer.... And land based C-RAM, Patroit, and Stingers.
@@michaelbeale559 We don't have to, actually. The recent Iranian retaliation to the bombing of their consulate by israel, showed that very scenario to whatever degree, that the modern air defenses/forces of multiple militaries even concentrated can be overwhelmed by swarms of comparably cheap unmanned systems.
@@NiceGuy-Nationalist That's because Israel didn't have anti drone defense's like the US has.
Just throw up some radio jammers and those drones fall out of the sky.
Wouldn't even mess with comms to much as those tend to be on a higher frequency.
um, quick reorder point. wave 1 gets annihilated. wave two catches the freshly activated ship board AA. provided wave one survivors don't scrub the whole operation. with the carriers not at pearl. and having kido butai half deplaned in a single strike. japan pulls the plug. the idea was to cripple the us fleet. you know what happens with kido butai deplaned at pearl? 6 months of the american carriers going on a rampage.
It also depends on which planes were destroyed. If the one that blew up the Arizona was shot down, almost 1,000 Americans would have survived. There may have been no second wave if the Japanese had lost 1/3 of the first wave.
400 AIM-9 Sparrows would do the trick before the Japanese Planes could come closer or use 4 Tomahawk Missles to each Imperial Japanese Aircraft Carriers.
The sparrow is the Aim-7. Aim-9 is the sidewinder.
Early Sparrows were smoldering dog shit. I believe it to be abandoned tech with the AMRAAM on line.
🤔🤔🤔 The thing is the Army radar unit informed the Naval command that the Japanese planes were inbound multiple times.
The Navel command ignored them telling the Army radar unit they were tracking bids and not planes.
The navy dropped the ball that day.
Even IF the only the ships were protected by the CIWS there would have been sufficient ammunition in each one's magazine to take out all of the planes. Based on the fact that they are propeller, and piston engine, driven planes that very slow when compared to jet aircraft. They wouldn't even have to fire 100 rounds per plane. The first 20mm round that impacted the engine would blow it up, and destroy the airplane.
The thing that cant be accounted for is that with the CIWS acting as cover it would have given the sailors and soilders time to mount a better defense or possibel offense and reducing pearl's damages and losses even more. Ill inclued this to sense everyone else is. Yes the second wave probable would not have happened either or if it did the imperial navy planes would be next to nothing and imperial fleet would already have begun being hunter by all the extra ships that wouldn't have been sunk
The bases in Hawaii were more than capable of defending themselves with the hardware of the time. What was missing was imagination that the attack was possible and communication/coordination between the services. For example, if the same officer had received word that the experimental radar station had detected a large body of aircraft AND that a midget submarine had been confirmed within the harbor AND Washington’s telegram warning that the Japanese were going to sever diplomatic relations that day. There was no mechanism existing at that time to put all the pieces together.
The bulk of crews and ground personnel were on weekend leave, leaving AA guns unmanned. Does not matter which systems could be employed,
Let's add to this a brigade worth of M-1663 Vulcan Air Defense System strategically placed around the island in addition to the CWIS.
CIWS system is only affective on supersonic targets. No planes broke the sound barrier in 1941.
Gotta remember it wasn't just Pearl Harbor attack, Wheeler Field close to Schofield Barracks and Kaneohe base was attacked. The tight formation of attacking planes would have easy targets. Doubt many bombs would have gotten close
"IF". If a frog had wing's it wouldn't be a frog. It would be a bird. "IF".
Actually the Japanese did not kamikaze their planes in Pearl Harbor. It would have been a waste of pilots and planes
It was not 354 planes at once. It was two waves with 100 zeros, 100 bombers and 27 torpedo bombers.
Upon triggering the proximity systems the CWIS and the base would go on high alert. Every ship would be at battle stations with every gun manned and destroyers moving out of pearl to create a picket line.
Every ground base MG would be tilted to the sky and the air base would be prepping fighters to launch.
Upon range the initsl 100 zeroes would be cut down giving US naval fighters time to launch. With US warplanes and CWIS active the ships would have mauled the initial wave.
Attack wave 2 was set to launch 2 hours after the firsf so they would be up in the air already.
Minimal damage to the base would occur as the US naval fleet slowly moving out would now start hunting for the main armada of the IJN fleet.
Once the 2nd wave comes into pearl every US fighter would be greeting them. Rougly 2 squadrons and 1 training squadron. The task would be to cut down the remaining fighters and then launch scouting planes if they havent yet.
With the lapse of first flight, the IJN would be forced to break radio silence to call any plane...only to be met with silence and give a now pissed off 3rd fleet intel that they were still in the area.
What would happen is probably the US navy slugging it out with the IJN...and with the Yorktown, Hornet, Enterprise, Saratoga and Lexington linking up... 5 fully stocked carriers vs 4... yea the IJNs surprise would be routed.
The first wave was 183 aircraft.
89 Torpedo bombers
51 dive bombers
43 fighters
the second wave was a similar compostition.
The fighters might've had a chance to survive using their maneuverability, but still unlikely. The bombers would have been annihilated quickly.
@@jesusofbullets Also, the Japanese forces were split, attacking Pearl but also Hickam & Wheeler airfields. Modern AA defenses would handle them easily.
they didnt all attack at once they attacked in 3 waves, and any survivors from the first would have said. "holy shit! dont go in there" the morale hit of seeing your friend obliterated by god knows what would force the fleet to rethink whats going on and head back home.
It was not during the war, it started the war, we were not at war yet
World War 2 is generally recognized as starting when Germany invaded Poland in Sept 1939. For some historians it started when the Japanese invaded Manchuria in Sept 1931. So, yes. The attack on Pearl Harbor did happen during WW2. Just not when the US was participating.
The start of WW2 isn't exactly a clear cut date. As the other poster points out, many chose 1939 and the invasion of Poland by the Germans(and soviets), but that is a mildly eurocentric view in many ways. Probably the next most common choice is the whichever of the various Japanese actions in Manchuria one prefers, as that conflict as the earliest start of the various conflicts that eventually merged into WW2. While these 2 are probably the best 2 options, they are hardly the only points one can choose.
One can also argue WW2 started when the Japanese occupied French Indochina, as that is the point where the pacific/far east conflcit nominally first merged with the European conflict. Though, since said action had little real effect on Vichy France or the European theater, one could also argue for December 7/8 of 1941 when the Japanese attacked the holdings of Britain in east Asia and the pacific, as that was the first action where the major theaters all blended into a single war. Of course, the US wouldn't enter any theater but the pacifc, at least officially, until Germany declared war on the US, so the attack on pearl harbor itself doesn't mark the start of ww2 except from a very US centric point of view.
There would have been little change in the 1st wave. That weapon system is normally shut down in port.
The tech existed to have a CIWS sytem then too. although manually guided. Just nobody thought it into existence.
Kamakazi pilot: (sees the amount of planes lost in a second) WTF?!!!
that depends a lot on how many mounts there are, those don't have much ammo and they take an absurd amount of time to reload
The use of any technology would have been known to the japanese. The pearl harbor attack was pre planned and the japanese even developed special missiles to use given the depth of the harbor. If this has been there, they would have overcome that too.
Torpedoes*
That modern Wizz would wipe out every plane like that
This reminds me of the movie, "The Final Countdown" where modern aircraft carrier USS Nimitz goes back in time to the day before Pearl Harbor was attacked. The F-14 Tomcats engaged some Japanese Zeros. Great movie starting Kirk Douglas and Martin Sheen.
CIWS finally didnt have to hold back the intrusive thoughs :D
Kopenki no kantai, but america is the one having advance tech.
Edit:kopenki no kantai is a anime about alt ww2 where Japanese commander Yamato goes back in time before ww2 and help advancing the japanese Army which resulted Japan being the strongest ww2 nation, its a very good anime
R2D2 with a hard-on , great weapon system
Urr - the entire base was not obliterated - the fuel tanks survived and a lot the base survived
WW2 WOULD END IN 1943 at thos pace... If we can call it a "pace"... 🤔
Use CIWS AND F16S TO DEFEND AND IF THAT DOSEN’T WORK USE ANTI AIR TANKS
the japanese had 3000+- skilled pilots right then and added 5000 pilots over the course of the war.
the US navy air forces added 15-17000 pilots over the course of the war, that does not include the regular air forces
If I hear C I W S one more time there will be a pear harbour 2.0
I mean this scenario is using radar technology almost 50 years in the future.. CWIS is radar guided. So let's take into account this scenario. Using modern radar technology in 1941. Under that assumption with tensions between Japan and the US strained after the oil embargo. The US would have been using this technology assumption and by the time those enemy planes would have been sited at least 50 miles out. The army and navy would have been mobilized and on high alert.
A Navy sub chaser attacked a sub that morning, a radar operator saw a formation of aircraft coming in and they classified it as B-17's coming in from the mainland.
The CIWS would be offline, their crews at their Sunday morning stations when the first bombs start falling
Remember bro they attacked in waves, not all at once.
if my grandmother had wheels she would be a bicycle
A nice simulation of being overwhelmed by Modern drones.
CIWS doesn't do good against swarm attacks in such numbers .
But losing 300 combat hardened naval aviators of the Japanese imperial Navy pretty much resets the timetable for the entire offensive of the Japanese !
Japanese: no plane was sent
Mind you the Japanese zeros only takes a few squirts of the trigger rented a blaze so it wouldn't take much to shoot it down
Like the other comments, the Japanese didn't attack in a single wave, they split them up coming from 2 directions. In addition they were flying at barely 100 feet, just clearing obstructions. There's archival footage showing them at or below some buildings. So even if they had CIWS (nicknamed seewiz) they'd have had difficulty taking them out without causing collateral damage from friendly fire
Okay, enough internet dosages today😂
Even with the loss of battleships, Pearl harbor was not destroyed as the repair facilities oil tanks were not hit. As the war progressed many ships were able to be repaired and returned to front without returning to the US.
The dry docks weren't hit either, which greatly helped getting the damaged ships repaired as quickly as possible. During the Battle of Leyte Gulf, battleships that were damaged or sunk at Pearl Harbor, then raised and/or repaired took part in the Battle of Surigao Strait, the last battleship vs battleship action in history. The US fleet absolutely DECIMATED the Japanese fleet attempting to sneak through the Strait.
The Achilles' heel of the CIWS is the long times to reload, this remains a problem to this day! Modern aircraft carriers have 3 to 4 CIWS and that's not enough!
If pearl harbour had modern warships, and navy jets
I would think if the first wave got obliterated like that there would be no second wave and the Japanese task force would retreat, damage from the attack would have been minimal.
There’s no such thing as an impregnable fortress.
What fortifications do is raise the cost of an attack.
This is an excellent example of why the best defense is to have the battle take place as far away from the infrastructure as possible.
Of course there is no impregnable fortress. They can't get pregnant nor get fucked
CIWS goesss brrrr
Eyewitness accounts from those on the ships and the ground said that they were surprised at how few Japanese planes were in the sky at one time.
It depends on the placement of the CIWS, I think it will be more effective if several CIWS placed near the coast, giving some safe distance to the fleet it defend, make a multilayer CIWS defense
now make one for this: " what if romans had M60s in the forest of teutoburg back in 9?"