Video není dostupné.
Omlouváme se.
Episode 199: Thomas Merton - Saint or Heretic?
Vložit
- čas přidán 24. 05. 2023
- Episode 199: Thomas Merton - Saint or Heretic?
On this episode, Fr. Gregory Pine and Fr. Patrick Briscoe discuss Thomas Merton.
Join us on retreat this summer
godsplaining.o...
Support the Podcast
Patreon: / godsplaining
Shop our store: godsplaining.b...
Shop Books Written by the Friars
St. Dominic's Way of Life: www.amazon.com....
Prudence: Choose Confidently, Live Boldly: www.amazon.com....
Connect on Social Media
Follow us on Instagram: / godsplaining
Like us on Facebook: / godsplaining. .
Follow us on Twitter: / godsplaining
To learn more about the Province of St. Joseph visit: www.opeast.org
To support the Province of St. Joseph visit: www.dominicanfriars.org
Monday morning quarterbacking...Jesus said, Seek and you shall find. St. Thomas Aquinas said, " You can't love what you don't know." Thomas Merton was a seeker with an adventurous mind. I'm grateful for his life, flaws and all.
For what it is worth, Thomas Merton's writings brought me to the church in 1999. I now attend the TLM in my diocese. I strive every day to live an Orthodox Catholic life.
watch over your shoulder for the Pope coming after you!
Discussion on Thomas Merton starts at 5:15
thanks...I needed that...was just about to ditch this smiley show. ugh
@@michaelmiller2397”smiley show”… lol. That’s kind of funny
Jeez yeah! I saw this too late and had to listen to small talk for 5 minutes lol
Im here for the small talk😅
Thank you
My highest regard to Fr Pine and Fr Briscoe. Having said that, the only person missing in this chat is Thomas Merton. I'm sure he would've clarified any muddy concerns.
I love Thomas Merton. Really helped me when I was younger.
Stay clear of occassions of sin. That's for all of us, but I think especially for the clergy.
Pray for the fidelity and holiness of all clergy 🙏🙏🙏
I like how he wrote and spoke about eastern religions.
Great discussion. Points well taken.
It's too bad that Merton's life has not been studied in the light of Daniel Levinson's groundbreaking research and findings published in the book, Seasons of a Man's Life. What are the stages of Levinson's theory? There are four stages of Levinson's theory: pre-adulthood, early adulthood, middle adulthood, and late adulthood. Pre-adulthood lasts from conception to age 22, early adulthood lasts from 17-45, middle adulthood lasts from 40 to 65, and late adulthood lasts from 60 to 85.
His 2 yr affair with the Nurse "M," was part of his midlife crisis, the symptoms of which included:
Feelings of dissatisfaction with career, vocation, & health;
- Feeling the pressing need to make major changes in life because time is short,
- Loss of stamina
- Restlessness about changes in appearance - Merton had changed from being tall, dark, and handsome into a "rotund beer bellied, balding Friar Tuck,"
- Falling into a 2 year-long romantic/sexual affair with a Nurse, "M," which was like a first love experience for him, intense, with mutual sexual attraction and intimacy, fraught with both angst and ecstasy, which later on he described as "stupid." He reverted to his much younger self which he described in The 7 Storey Mountain:
"I, whose chief trouble was that my soul and all its faculties were going to seed because there was nothing to control my appetites - and they were pouring themselves out in an incoherent riot of undirected passion - came to the conclusion that the cause of all my unhappiness was sex-repression! ( Merton 1948:124).
- His wilder and wilder adventures into "Romantic Orientalism in which he became enamored of a variety of East Asian religious traditions, notably Philosophical Taoism (Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu) and Buddhism," was another symptom.
Merton himself knew that he was very neurotic. He was brilliant, wrote over sixty other books and hundreds of books, essays, poems on topics ranging from monastic spirituality to civil rights, nonviolence, the nuclear arms race, and was an initiator of inter-religious dialogue. Pope Francis on Thomas Merton, September 24, 2015 at the Joint Session of Congress: “He remains a source of spiritual inspiration and a guide for many people… Merton was
above all a man of prayer, a thinker who challenged the certitudes of his time and opened new horizons for souls
and for the Church. He was also a man of dialogue, a promoter of peace between peoples and
religions.”
Did he sin? Yes. Did he doubt Catholicism? Yes. Did he get confused about the various spiritualities? Yes. Does he have fair critics? Yes. Is he venerated by many? Yes. Did he finally become truly self-aware?
“My Lord God, I have no idea where I am going. I do not see the road ahead of me. I cannot know for certain where it will end. Nor do I really know myself, and the fact that I think that I am following your will does not mean that I am actually doing so. But I believe that the desire to please you does in fact please you. And I hope I have that desire in all that I am doing. I hope that I will never do anything apart from that desire. And I know that if I do this you will lead me by the right road, though I may know nothing about it. Therefore will I trust you always, though I may seem to be lost and in the shadow of death. I will not fear, for you are ever with me, and you will never leave me to face my perils alone.”
Merton did not have a sexual relationship with a nurse. Read his journal. He never doubted his Catholicism. He was assassinated.
I discovered Merton through Richard Rorh, and I love that both have said that god reaches people in many ways, not just through Christianity. I left evangelical Protestantism about 20 years ago proclaiming atheism staunchly. Now I’m listening to your podcast so . . .
To learn more about Richard Rohr and Thomas Merton read: www.themartyrdomofthomasmerton.com/ewExternalFiles/Teresa.Rohr.Merton.IAN.pdf
I don't see how or why Merton is labeled a heretic or "evil" in some circles for merely stating that other religions hold some validity to them. I think it is so short-sighted and ignorant to espouse that one's religion holds every single truth of God within it. How often Catholics, and Christians in general, forget that Jesus was, in fact, not a Christian. Buddhism is not about you being "God," it is about accepting that "God" is within ALL living things, so the way we can become closer to that is to meditate, to drop our humanly egos, and to dip our toes into the "flow" of God within us. If we believe, as Catholics do, that we are all sons and daughters of God...God, then, is not external, but internal. We are all a part of the infinite, of God. We have nothing but the present moment, yet we live our lives either in the lost past, or the never-to-come future. Living in the present moment fully, as a pure expression of God, devoid of ego (the essence of Buddhism)...what could be better than that?
Agree !
Merton helped me get straight in my mind how I felt about serving in the US military during the Vietnam era. To state it clearly: Merton's writings in some alternate publications helped me clarify my conscientious objection the the draft.
Why did you think it was a good idea to allow Communist atheists to take over a Catholic country?
Omgosh!! The first 5 minutes of this video is like Merton’s first 100 pages!!! 😳 not for me..
For me, Merton is a sign that the Catholic Church can encompass the contemplative life as well as the active life. Not an easy marriage, but throughout his life Merton was a man of integrity, even if he did lapse at times. This only makes him more human, and more endearing than a plaster saint.
I've read some of his books and I'm glad they 'landed' on my hands...😊❤
So much is misunderstood with Thomas Merton… as simply as I can put it in a brief comment, is Merton was trying, and contemplating on how the seeds of the logos affected the east. And how he could bring the souls in the east that have the seeds of the logos within them planted to the Catholic Church or Christ. I could say, and talk and discuss and contemplate Thomas Merton, comparative religion for hours. Not to be misunderstood.
I am one of those boomers who loved Merton, especially as a teenager and college student. But you chose exactly the right word; he could indeed be very "demagogic". "The Ascent to Truth" (1951), especially, always left me feeling that if I wasn't living exactly as Merton was - a life of contemplation or, ironically, writing an awful lot about the contemplative life - I wasn't really living a fruitful life. For a somewhat different take, I cannot too highly recommend "From the Monastery to the World: The Letters of Thomas Merton and Ernesto Cardenal" (2017). I never knew Merton, but I am honored to have known the great Nicaraguan priest/poet, who changed my life in a very profound way.
Please forgive me, first part was boring!
Please do your research first before the episode. Everyone is a sinner,some maybe canonized saints. My point is the ball got dropped this time. You both are so gifted and talented. I reckon I have come to expect more.
Peace
Merton is profound and these two monks failed to bonafide Merton’s spiritual worth. Merton is challenging conventional Catholicism. And the mainline church still doesn’t want to confront itself. It didn’t want to do that in Galileo’s time and you can see how that became a black mark on our church’s relevance. We were dead wrong! And despite Pope Francis’s best efforts we still want to execute our modern date Galileos.
Two points: In Thomas Merton's journals he writes of a dream that he has where he was in a bay looking out over the water, (which he describes in enough detail to recognize Bangkok) and the music of Mozart was playing over the scene. Well, apparently, his good friend, who was very fond of, or taught (can't remember exactly) Mozart died on the same day. I read of this in the biography "The Seven Mountains of Thomas Merton". Also I read there a description of Buddhism given, but I am not sure it was from Merton, where it was strong in the ways of mind, but the ways of Grace were absent. I don't think Merton ever strayed from the fidelity to the Church. He just saw the correspondences of monastic life is other cultures. Even the Nurse situation, when resolved , deepened his faith.
I've done a dozen retreats at Malvern, PA- great spot! More leg work should be done before venturing to discuss someone's legacy and personal reputation. Go Birds!
Are you serious !? Merton was the most cogent opponent of the USA military intervention in Vietnam. He was also more knowlegeable about Buddhism than the Buddhists !! Every indication is that Merton was murdered (assassinated, in the same year as MLK Jr and RFK) either because of his opposition to the Vietnam War or his Catholic hegemony over Buddhism. The electrical burn mark on his body occured AFTER death. ... to me Merton was a martyr. And while I am at it, I don't like your silly discussion style at all. Get a new host.
I'm going to have to revisit Seven Story Mountain. I think I got bored in those first hundred pages that you spoke about.
These two are not worthy to lace Thomas Merton’s shoes.
Interesting, I just had made a comment concerning Thomas Merton in a internet class thread that questioned his preoccupation with Eastern traditions regarding mysticism. Thanks for this podcast and shedding light on my own thoughts.
For anyone uncertain about Merton's theology, read The Ascent to Truth. In that book Merton sets a foundation based upon St. Thomas Aquinas and St. John of the Cross, and there is no reason to think he ever departed from this foundation- regardless of whether he took an interest in Buddhism. Catholics should take an interest in Buddhism if it is to be understood. Failure to understand Buddhism will only make Catholics look like clowns when engaging with it, and the oversimplifications and straw men of Buddhism absolutely abound. Buddhism needs to be assimilated (baptized) to Christian truth the same way Aquinas assimilated Aristotle.
He took an interest in contemplative traditions across religions as he noticed a common ground which he was curious about and wanted to explore further. To me it seems like this arose from being so deeply grounded in his own faith that he wasn't afraid to let God surprise him by showing Himself in other spiritual traditions.
Merton shows what spiritual freedom may look like. The freedom which is a fruit of deep trust in and knowledge of our Lord. He also shows what being a human being living in the Truth may look like, with all its blessings and shortcomings. He was profoundly honest and a master of healthy introspection and of expressing his insights in plain and relatively simple words.
Try listen to his talks and conferences. I don't know if he was 100 percent in line with Church teaching but it is so obvious that he was deeply in love with Christ and knew his Catechism.
Sorry, I got carried away. This is more some general thoughts than a reply to your insightful comment. Thomas Merton means a lot to me, and even though he died before I were born, he has taught me so much.
Funny how one of the guys in the video felt that he had to be a contemplative and it wasn't right if he didn't do it exactly like Merton. As for me, I found so much encouragement to pursue a contemplative life in the world, not worrying that I didn't know how.
By showing us his path he doesn't, as I see it, ask us to follow him. Rather, he asks us and teaches us to listen to and follow the Spirit that he himself followed, to let it lead us like he let it lead him. Which on the surface may result in a radically different life than the one of Merton.
Regarding the extent to which his relationship was like with the nurse he fell in love with, he did act on his attraction to her in a physical manner on more than one occasion. He does say he never acted in the full spousal embrace but he does note, in a cringeworthy fashion, the intimacy they shared. It was after one particular encounter that gave Merton enough clarity to pursue ending the relationship full stop. This is a sad reality that he broke his vow of celibacy in such a way but it also speaks to our humanity and that we are not far from breaking our vows to God too. May God rest his soul.
This is my first encounter with Merton and it’s surprising to see how many Christians get shook when they discover people are human and how we get swept up in near infinite different ways against the vows we take.
A heretic is one of two things: somebody you don't understand or somebody who doesn't agree with you.
No it’s not
Read the Marian saints, e.g. de Liguori, de Montfort, Kolbe. Forget Merton.
Merton was a poster priest for the errors of Vatican II; in short, he was a heretic. He died looking for his "god" in a Bangkok hotel room when a ceiling fan fell on him and he died, an unprepared death.
Thomas Merton's subjects were different from those of St. Alphonsus' or St. Louis de Montfort's. Merton's were not just Marian (although he touches on it, too), but more on the kinds prayer, especially meditation and contemplation, like San Juan de la Cruz and Santa Teresa de Avila. I find Merton's early writings on prayer a lot more orthodox that those of Anthony de Mello or Thomas Keating. De Mello's and Keatings' are so outside of my prayer experience and can't find much traditional Catholicism in them.
@@marietta1335 Here is a passage I just took from the current Wikipedia article on Anthony de Mello:
"In 1998, 11 years after de Mello's death, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith under the leadership of its Cardinal-Prefect, Joseph Ratzinger (who later became Pope Benedict XVI), conducted a review of de Mello's work and released a lengthy comment expressing theological concern that de Mello's books 'are incompatible with the Catholic faith and can cause grave harm.'"
Silly me!
I am always learning something new to improve the quality of my ignorance.
I mistakenly assumed that Fr. Briscoe or Fr. Pine might be reading our comments here to get our feedback. Five days ago, Bob West actually addressed these Dominicans when he wrote, “Fathers, your analysis of Merton brings to mind many questions…” Sorry Bob, but I don’t think the fathers are interested in what you, or any of us say here.
I checked other past Godsplaining podcasts with comments and replies and the Dominicans never respond to any comments. They do ask for your support with donations, but they apparently are not interested in our thoughts, praise, questions, or criticism. Ha ha.
Who knew?
A few days ago, one of my comments was removed so I emailed a screenshot of my comment to Fr. Pine and I asked him if I had said something wrong or something that was not true? He sent me a friendly “hello,” and told me that he was hiking in Switzerland. He ignored my question about my comment that I sent to him. Apparently, Fr. Pine is not interested in my comments here and probably no one else's comments either.
My comments were directed to Fr. Briscoe and Fr. Pine, but it took me a while to figure out that they are not reading any comments. I thought that the rest of you commenting here all might like to know this. Isn't life interesting?
May God always be with you all.
You silly twerp
Such young priests! Of course, at my advanced age, everyone seems like a teenager to me. Thanks for the wonderful discussion, kids. (wink).
'For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.'+ "Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast the First Stone"
What is this looking at Merton's biography going to do for you as opposed to looking within for how you align with what he says about contemplating the reality of 'you' vs that of God?
Get your facts before judging someone as influential as t merton.. He has turned many people to God. Bad talk boys
This was a disappointment.
These Dominicans are out of their depth talking about Thomas Merton. It was an understatement by Fr. Gregory Pine to say, “I’m not entirely perfect on the details…” Fr. Pine then said that Merton was at a conference about Eastern and Western mysticism. The conference, “A New Charter for Monasticism,” was organized by the Benedictines. It was a meeting of Catholic monastic superiors to discuss the present and future of monasticism in the East. The participants were mostly Benedictines, a few Trappists, two Jesuits, and one Dominican, Fr. Shigeto Oshido, O.P. Fr. Pine mischaracterized the purpose of the meeting. Pine then faulted Merton “for attending a conference in the Far East about something that may or may not have pertained to the heart of the Gospel,” calling this, “certainly a cause for concern.”
Fr. Pine said that Merton “died of electrocution because, like some bathroom appliance fell in the tub…I don’t know that we have the full story or will ever get the full story.”
Fr. Pine is right that he does not have the full story, but that is his own fault. Five years ago, I gave Fr. Pine a copy of the book, “The Martyrdom of Thomas Merton: An Investigation.” If Pine had read the book, he would know that officially Merton did not die by electrocution, he did not take a bath or shower, and he did not die in Bangkok.
Fr. Pine was right to advise caution about the later writings by Thomas Merton that he called “muddier.” The people responsible for covering-up Merton’s murder, edited books published posthumously, “by Merton.” Those editors should not be trusted.
The most important aspect of Thomas Merton was as a peacemaker against war. It was his advocacy against nuclear weapons and all war that likely targeted him for assassination in 1968, with Martin Luther King Jr. and Robert F. Kennedy. Unfortunately, these Dominicans missed the non-violence message of Jesus, that Merton was preaching. Merton was not assassinated for writing “The Sign of Jonas” or “The Seven Storey Mountain.”
I have heard Fr. Pine speak about Thomas Aquinas and he is excellent on that subject. He is not qualified to have an opinion about the death of Thomas Merton.
Hugh Turley, co-author of The Martyrdom of Thomas Merton: An Investigation
www.themartyrdomofthomasmerton.com
Wow.... a bit much.
@@msgoody2shoes959 Have I said anything that is not true? The ignorance displayed by Fr. Pine and Fr. Briscoe is voluntary. Thomas Aquinas called this type of ignorance "consequent." Their ignorance about where and how Thomas Merton died is due to their own neglect. It would be better to remain silent than to spread information about Fr. Thomas Merton that is not true. Fr. Pine and Fr. Briscoe ought to correct their errors.
@@hughturley1062 no, you're just being Catholic... overkill with a response that wasnt needed for this kind of video. Catholics over react to things that are meant to show pride of their own knowledge about things when... its more humble to hint or surmise more information . You get a goldstar. Well done. You are very knowledgeable.
Dear Barb,
You are very kind to defend Fr. Pine. But I feel that it is Thomas Merton who needs defending when his assassination has been turned into a meaningless bathtub accident.
I am familiar with Bellarmine University. Fr. Briscoe and Fr. Pine would have been prudent to invite Dr. Paul Pearson, the Director of The Thomas Merton Center, at Bellarmine, as a guest to discuss Merton.
I have co-authored two books on Merton’s death, “The Martyrdom of Thomas Merton: An Investigation,” and “Thomas Merton’s Betrayers: The Case against Abbot James Fox and Author John Howard Griffin.” These books are in the Merton collection at Bellarmine University. Our first book is also at Stanford and Columbia University libraries. I offered the book to Fr. John Martin, the librarian at the Dominican House of Studies. Fr. Martin told me that he would read the book. Months later, he returned the book to me, admitting that he had not read it, but had somehow determined that it was “inappropriate” for their library collection.
A number of historic documents that I discovered in my research were added to the Bellarmine collection including the official Thai death certificate, doctor’s certificate, U.S. Embassy Report, and crucial crime scene photographs that even the Thai police did not see. Those photographs had been hidden for 50 years.
Fr. Pine has known me for many years, and we live near each other. I gave him a copy of our first book in 2018 and he wrote to me that he intended to read it. He should know that I am a leading expert on Merton’s death. If he planned to discuss Merton’s death, he could have read our book or consulted with me.
Fr. Pine stated the truth at the 28-minute mark of this podcast when he blurted out, “Man, I am just horse shoeing and hand-grenading the whole way through this episode.” Fr. Briscoe laughed. Fr. Pine admitted that his information about Thomas Merton was not exactly accurate. Five minutes earlier, at the 23-minute mark, Briscoe asked Pine what we should be cautious of with Merton. Pine said, “stuff from the 1960s,” adding, “and by my own admission, I haven’t read any of this stuff because I’ve been warned off it…” Some of “that stuff from the 1960s,” that Pine advised we avoid includes “Conjectures of a Guilty Bystander,” “Faith and Violence,” and “Peace in the Post-Christian Era.” These are significant books by Thomas Merton that Pine dismissed without consideration.
Catholic academia, the Catholic media, and the Church have been repeating falsehoods about Thomas Merton’s death for over 50 years. I love the Dominican friars. Many of them have known me for 20 years or more. It hurts me when they say things that are not true. The Godsplaining Podcast should revisit Thomas Merton to correct their errors.
www.themartyrdomofthomasmerton.com
@@msgoody2shoes959 It would be more appropriate to use the term “overkill” to describe how Merton’s murder has been turned into a meaningless bathtub accident. I am not like most Catholics when I tell the truth about Merton's death. Catholic academia, the Catholic media, and the Catholic Church have been repeating falsehoods about Merton’s death for 55 years.
Thomas Merton died in 1968 at a very young agent of 51 with controversy surrounding his death. Although born in France and returning there in 1924, he and his father moved to England in 1926. He entered Gethsemane Abbey in 1941. It was there he began his own passion. Fr. Louis was one of the many shining lights which lit up the road to Rome. He also towards the end of his life was being pursued by the “demons” he failed to overcome which is the “labora” of his daily life as a Trappist Monk. Although able to be a good source for others in the spiritual life, he lacked the ability to put into practice those things which he learned in the monastic life he professed. To me he was a good example of why no contact with the outside world is necessary to guard the hidden vocation of of a monk or nun. And for that matter all who are drawn to meditation and contemplation. There is a story about the Abbot of Gethsemane who when trying to ascertain whether Fr. Louis had the ability to live as a hermit had a psychiatrist do a work up on him. His assessment if true is quite revealing. “His idea of a hermit was living in solitude with his name lit up on Broadway while doing so.” As in all things, seeking the light given us at the moment and acting upon that by stepping into Christ’s light given leads us out of the darkness behind us on the journey into Eternal Life (Light). Thomas Merton at some point failed to step on the light before him for his own benefit, but able to articulate it at least in his early years to others who were seeking the Eternal Light of God. May Thomas rest in peace.
Wow thank you for your objectivity that truly assess his life.
53
We see reliance on Jesus in the last words of Trappist monk and spiritual writer Thomas Merton in Bangkok on December 10, 1968, when he had just finished his lecture on "Marxism and Monasticism." Many of the abbots, prioresses and other monks were disturbed by the talk because it was not what they expected; they did not agree with Merton's broad vision of modern religious life. As Merton walked to his room to take an afternoon nap, one of the monks approached him and told him that a nun in the audience had been disappointed because he had said nothing about evangelization.
"What we are asked to do at present," Merton said to the monk, "is not so much to speak of Christ as to let him live in us so that people may find him by feeling how he lives in us."
This idea of preaching the Gospel by not saying a word doesn't seem to entirely agree with Jesus 's great commission
@@sgabig I do not disagree with you. There is a quotation often WRONGLY attributed to St. Francis of Assisi that goes: "Preach always. If necessary, use words." But St. Francis had a rule somewhat along those lines: his Rule of 1221, Chapter XII (according to an internet source whose link CZcams will probably strip out if I include it here), on how the Franciscans should practice their preaching:
"No brother should preach contrary to the form and regulations of the holy Church nor unless he has been permitted by his minister … All the Friars … should preach by their deeds."
Modernism, Syncretism, and here were are... SIN- nod/wink- ism. Weeds among the Wheat....We were not vigilant.
Generous and positive evaluation. I did appreciate Merton both before and after I became Catholic. And yet I realize that he was, like all of us, flawed. He says in his journal that he did invite the nurse to visit him secretly in his hermitage at least twice and that on the final occasion they crossed some physical boundary that he says was wrong to do, although from the way he put it I thought of it as yes, a physical boundary violation, but on the order of kissing or cuddling. The same journal indicates that he spent some energy over a significant period trying to leave his monastery for another location for he was critical of the leaders and in his talks to the Loretto Sisters (I think ) one hears him advising them to be critical of their leaders. And, yes, he did try to be as independent as possible of his abbot and his associates - he simply says this. Of course, the problem with a journal is that one cannot be sure about the reasons for revealing this inner criticism that he surely knew did not fit well with obedience, humility or stability. Was he confessing? Or was he trying to work it through? But it is there. And yes, the writings on eastern and western mysticism do make me quite uncomfortable, although it is not unusual for those with such ecumenical concerns to get rather foggy on Christian, not to say Church, uniqueness, especially the uniqueness of Christ. Yet I know that we all have our flaws, and now I am a Catholic priest I am reminded of this more often when, in my case, some of my earlier writings come back to haunt me and I realize that I wrote this or that long before I was Catholic but wrote things that fit my then-context knowing in my deepest part that they distorted scripture or distorted what a voice within me said was true at least a bit - enough that some I know now seem to have been misled. As one leader I knew said, with all writers and teachers like Merton one has to eat the chicken and spit out the bones.
Read the Irish Times. He arranged to meet her in the doctor's office, witnessed by a brother of the monastery, and reported to the abbott, There was champaign and sex. he admitted it.
Fathers, your analysis of Merton brings to mind many questions. As your major critiques of his seem to revolve around his shortcomings in the religious life. i.e. his shortcomings on his vow of chastity and whether he should have asked for permission to attend the conference at which he died. As a convert and a lay person this causes confusion because I do not see the link between said criticism and myself. I would view his interactions with the nurse as part of the temptations we all experience and the falls that accompany them. This is hammered home to all Catholics in that we WILL fail and we WILL fall and this is why we place our faith in God's mercy and grace. As Merton (whom I have not read) has not been declared a Saint, your podcast hits me more as a lifting up of Merton as a good example for the Catholic life insofar as he was a man, fully human and not divine who strove to know God and sought him out with a passion that should be lauded. You have highlighted his brushes with the near occasion of sin, and perhaps even the crossing over into a state outside of Grace to which I hold out hope that through confession he found his way back into such a state. You can combine this with the question of whether he had too broad a latitude as a monk, and whether he should have asked said permission to attend the conference, but as laity we do not hold a vow of obedience as such (although my wife has already granted me far broader permissions) so exactly how do these cautions you put out there pertain to the laity?
@Bob West you phrased your question to the Godsplaining Fathers but I have this input from this lay person: the way you asked your question, it sounds like you are almost expecting that it is OK to sin because we all sin, as though that kind of gives you a free pass as long as you go to confession. Technically it does, but that is also a very slippery slope to play on. Did I misread your intent? I would be interested in our Dominican Dogs' inclusion of this concept in their response.
Dear Bob,
You mentioned an important point where Fr. Pine questioned, “whether he should have asked for permission to attend the conference at which he died.” This is not exactly how it happened. The timeline is important because a murder takes planning.
Living in a cloistered monastery, Merton would not have known about a conference in Thailand on his own. His nemesis, Abbot James Fox, would not give Merton permission to travel anywhere, beyond a doctor’s appointment in Louisville. It is illogical to think that Merton would have asked for permission from Fox to go to a conference.
Merton had been living with heroic virtue of obedience under Abbot Fox for 19 difficult years. He had been trying without any success to transfer to the Carthusians or another monastery. There was also the risk that Merton could simply walk out the gate, and with him would go those precious royalties.
Here is the timeline:
October 1967, A letter from his friend, Fr. Jean Leclercq, O.S.B., tells Merton of plans for a conference in Asian at the end of 1968.
(Fox read Merton’s mail so he would have known about the conference.)
November 1967, Fox had Merton sign a document to assign royalties from his literary estate to the abbey in the event of his death.
December 1967, Fox resigns as abbot (Merton had written to friends that Fox would still maintain control.)
Following his resignation Fox remained at the Abbey of Gethsemani. This is unusual after a superior steps down.
January 1968, Flavian Burns, the new abbot, received an invitation for him and for Merton to attend the conference in Thailand. Flavian declines but tells Merton that he should go. Flavian gave Merton an American Express Card and told him all the expenses would be covered by the abbey. Flavian also gave Merton permission to travel to New Mexico, California, and Alaska prior to his Asian trip. And Flavian told Merton that he could live in California, apart from the abbey, after his return from Asia.
Merton had his Abbot's permission not to return to Gethsemani. He intended to be a monk OF Gethsemani, but not a monk AT Gethsemani.
December 10, 1968, Merton is murdered in Thailand. Merton was buried at Gethsemani.
Following Merton’s death, the Associated Press publicized the false story that the death was an “accident.” This was not the official cause of death. Fox and others created the false story that Merton took a shower and was “wet” when he was accidentally electrocuted by a fan. The Abbey hid official documents, letters, and photographs that did not support their “accidental electrocution” narrative.
@@bajone02 by all means, no, I do not look for an answer of "it is ok to sin because we all do" The comments came to me unbidden and upon reflection I think it more a commentary on the modern cancel culture. The title of this podcast "Saint or heretic" is a nod to the either or mentality of humankind. Should he be a Saint then all he says is truth, which is not the case, even St Thomas spoke things that were not accepted by the Church, as did all the Saints. Should he be a heretic then all he said worthless? we know that not to be true either if we search our hearts. It is a both and situation, and he was, after all, just a man with all the flaws of a man, but who did have some remarkable insights. I think the answer I was hoping for was more akin to While one man may not have asked permission where another would, it is our duty to prayerfully discern which path it is for us to take. Should we err in that discernment we then should look for the good that God creates from this error to teach us the right path, more specifically the right path for us as individuals. I think perhaps that is the lesson for the laity regarding following the rule of a religious order... but I am still contemplating it and may well discern that what I have just said is a lot of bumpkus....
@@hughturley1062 I am not suggesting your description of events are inaccurate but do you have any evidence for your claims such as the monks of Gethsemani covering up the truth of his death?
@@viviennedunbar3374 Yes. There is a great deal of evidence that exists.
There were almost 200 monks at the Abbey of Gethsemani in the 1960s. They all did not join in the cover-up. Three monks did cover-up the truth, Abbot James Fox, Abbot Flavian Burns, and Brother Patrick Hart. I have co-authored two carefully researched books about the events in Thailand and in Kentucky. The monastery did not act alone. The secular press, Catholic press, Catholic academia, and the Church spread the false story that Merton died by “accidental electrocution,” and they continue to repeat this falsehood.
Fr. Pine said that Merton “died of electrocution because, like some bathroom appliance fell in the tub.” What evidence does Fr. Pine have to support his statement?
Merton’s body was found on the floor of his room by three Benedictine monks. Merton was wearing shorts. There was no tub in the cottage where Merton was found. The scene was suspicious, so the Benedictines photographed the scene. Merton was not in a bathroom or in a tub. The photographs of Merton’s body were deliberately hidden. I found the photographs in the Rare Book and Manuscript Library at Columbia University in 2017. The pictures do not support Fr. Pine’s statement.
We should all be interested in the truth. Aquinas wrote: “But, just as man is subject to God as far as the will is concerned, through loving, so is he subject to God as far as intellect is concerned, through believing; not, of course, by believing anything false, for no falsity can be proposed to man by God Who is truth. Consequently, he who believes something false does not believe in God.”
Aquinas, SCG, bk3, pt2, ch118
It is harmful when Fr. Briscoe and Fr. Pine tell us things that are false. If we love them, we should encourage them to tell the truth. The purpose is not to show up anyone or say, “gottcha.” The truth is important because it leads us to God the source of all truth. When we believe things that are false, we distance ourselves from God.
The following is an excerpt from page 202 our book “Thomas Merton’s Betrayers: The Case against Abbot James Fox and Author John Howard Griffin”:
“All the other false information about a shower, Haas being stuck to the fan, no fuses, Merton being a klutz, the embassy calling Flavian, the time of death, and the fake documents came after Fox claimed to know what had happened. Everything that was suppressed by the abbey, Say’s photographs, the death certificate, doctor’s report, embassy report, and witness accounts, was suppressed because it contradicted what Fox said had happened.”
I'm stoked to see y'all in June!
Thanks you! Seven Story Mountain was recommended by my spiritual director and I could not get through those first 100 pages so I chalked it up as “not for me” I prefer the spiritual exercises of St Ignatius🤷♀️😇
It was a great book which brought many conversions and Trappist vocations.
It’s so irksome that 10,000 years of Hindu philosophy is just laughed at and regarded as potential heresy, and inadequate as a means of becoming sanctified. The reason Jesus says, “deny yourself, take up your cross and follow me,” is to directly point out that we have to crucify the aspects of ourselves that keep us separated from our fellow man and God. The question is, after the false self has been killed, what remains? The culmination of spiritual practice, is the divine revelation that there’s no separation between God and one’s true nature. This is the revelation Aquinas had, I must reasonably infer, before he referred to his own writings as piles of straw, inadequate to point directly to the reality that is. This revelation is achieved equally in all traditions and is completely ineffable and utterly profound. So, if one’s true nature has already been realized, and one is completely merged in divine unconditional love with God, what use is concepts and words, and ideologies, and dogmas, and philosophies, which according to the beloved Aquinas, fall flat in comparison to the actual experience of God Consciousness. At least, Aquinas was referring to his own writings, not the church itself. The problem is that so few teachers ever experience this state of mystical union. Thomas Merton writes about intellectual and spiritual pride masquerading as piety and holiness in “seeds of contemplation.” This is truly the biggest stumbling block and pitfall on the path to Realization. If you’ve read both Advaita Vedanta and Aquinas with open heart and mind, you know Aquinas doesn’t approach the sophistication, practicality, and thoroughness, clarity and effectiveness of Advaita Vedanta, especially as a vehicle for getting to the ultimate realization. They aren’t even in the same ball park.
The God's of the pagans are Demons. Demons are of the highest intellect. Super intelligence, they lead us stupid folk astray in very fascinating ways. They are illusionists, and we are decieved by our own pride & vanity.
Jesus Christ is the Only Way to Salvation, The true Face of God-Trinty One.
First books: 7 Storey Mt, New Seeds of Contemplation, No Man is an Island:kept me deeply Catholic as a young person in the 70s and 80s. (Still am) Didn't read anything else of his🤷♀️
For humans to say that only by the grace the church can one find jesus christ, and that only through the seeking of jesus christ can one find jesus christ and thus find god, to avoid, discredit, or view a bankruptcy in Merton's later writings is to limit the possibility of god within the experience of being a actual being of god's infinite universe.There is nothing graceful about we as human's placing a barrier of judgement on the grace found through practices other than those that one has been taught are "the one path". The idea that there is only one path is a construction of human inadequacy and small mindedness in the possibility of god. Thus by limiting the possibility of god by the confines of a human interpretation and structure of what god can reach us through is in and of itself an act away from god. Merton's later writings, and the work of D.T.Suzuki and the understanding of being with god, thus god being beyond our comprehension and having infinite access points through contemplation, through zen practice, through the paths that within the search and dialogue with god open up to the individual, point to the reality that a limited view of the way to god is in and of itself an act of pride and an act of the minutely human need for control. To be open to the possibility that one finds god through avenues other than those one has regimented in a close circuit of belief is to seek and believe humbly in the real presence of an almighty god that is beyond our "knowledge" yet is our creator and carrier and we a part of its whole.
NEW AGE infected the Church. Prime example.
Interesting critiquing his later works without reading them. I believe we need to be very careful about statements about how god is working or not working in other religions or mindsets. The gospels consistently insist on the Spirit’s presence in those outside the accepted dogma of the time, e.g. the samaritans. I’m reminded that “God can raise from these stones children of Abraham.” We are not in charge of where or how the Holy Spirit speaks in this world.
What a joke. Y’all just don’t get Merton.
Now do an episode on Richard Rohr 😅
Oh yeh 👍 the great apostate. That’ll be a good one 😂
To be judge-y?
"The Ascent to Truth" is the first book of Merton's that I read. It is the writing that turned me on to Merton and his further writings. A difficult work to read for sure.
Kind of weird watching you guys talking to each other, face to face.
Like listening in on a private conversation
What a strange way to broadcast, we have to watch this really awkward back and forth of trivia, personal information, filler and more filler, and small talk, embarrassing non funny jokes, and finishing each others sentences, and long rambling sentences, with random m'kay, interjections.
Wall of words, a real phobia for silence or considered pauses. High noise, low content, are you trying to be "populist" like polititians do, or relatable, vague and inarticulate, after 5 minutes not one single point had been got to.
Astonishingly uncomfortable, awkward and emotionally flat and flip and insincere appearing. It did make me cringe, even tho the word is overused.
Be unfailingly God conscious not self conscious and camera conscious perhaps?
Very well said. I am impressed by your awareness that these two priests did not know what they were talking about.
@@hughturley1062 l hesitated to post that comment but watching had left me feeling massively uneasy so, l wanted other people's take on it.
Evidently, it's a pot head, non sequitur laced um er live stream style they are aping, and yes, l am definitely being uncharitable, but l'm also double bound by it.
However it is the modern equivalent of the over familiar singing Nuns that made my skin creep as a teen, definitely true that "down with kids" has never worked.
Altho l have been known to make the occasional bone dry aside to my parish priest, sotto voce, and have got a chuckle or a wry smile back. I actually treat him formally, as the role suggests, 99% of the time.
You would think that the "Buddy Christ" meme of the past would have let them know, no one, just non one, wants overfamiliarity or say wannabe bestie gatecrashers into their teen subculture.
The Priesthood has so much power, and they need to carry the burden of that raw power between themselves and God alone. They also carry the burden of their parishioners confessional secrets . Awkward.
Raw power, plus chumminess, plus neediness, can be extremely repellent or overwhelming.
Tips on how to be unswervingly, uncompromisingly Catholic, in a hostile and impudent world, would be just great.
Please don't waste the time of your viewers by commenting on an important figure in the history of 20th century Catholic thought whose works you have largely not read. Almost everything you mention comes from Merton's earliest years--important, but only a starting point. If you haven't read Raids on the Unspeakable, Conjectures of a Guilty Bystander, or The Asian Journal, then you haven't read the Merton that continues to matter and challenge any Catholic or non-Catholic. In addition, your comments on Merton's death are non-sensical and smack of the worst forms of conspiracy theory. The reason you were "warned off" of reading the later Merton is because that is the Merton who was synthesizing all of the best aspects of thought, contemplation and action in the world of his day, resulting in his ability to speak to the real problems of racism, nuclear war and American consumerism in the 1950s and 60s. He was also speaking to the smug insularity within the Church itself--the very problem your religious formation seems to demonstrate.
I totally agree with your critique of the critique of merton
Well done guys! Important conversation.
Merton had been married but was a widower. His wife and child were killed in London by a Geman V2 rocket bomb.
I understood he was the sole son of wealthy NZ artist parents and who when at University in the UK got a girl pregnant. Unable to face his responsibities, he went to USA, and the resulting guilt was probably at the base of his spiritual quest and writings.
Prove it.
maybe confused with Karl Stern the psychoanalyst.@@dorianmodify
He had not been married. The often-repeated story that he fathered a child out of wedlock during his one year at Cambridge University lacks substantiation. My conclusion from researching the story is that is most likely not true.
thank you for correcting my confused statement. Maybe it was Karl Stern?
I've read a good five or six Merton books over the years. My first exposure was New Seeds of Contemplation. After that were Life and Holiness, No Man is an Island, Seeds of Destruction and Ascent to Truth. Even now, I'm reading his journal covering 1963-1965. Very interesting. I have absolutely no problem with his later works, and as Bishop Barron points out, there was nothing in his later works to suggest that he was deviating from Catholicism. He was merely using the insights of Buddhism and Hinduism to shine light on aspects of Catholicism that were often not thought adequately about. And let's face it: spiritual Catholicism has been sacrificed for clicks by the CZcams purveyors of traditional, legalistic, heartless, hypocritical, shallow Catholicism. Most Catholics (at least those in the Catholic media) nowadays seem to have lost the introspection necessary to be GOOD Catholics. They have become not bible thumpers but catechism thumpers - and they're just nasty people. In their minds, even this Pope is a heretic for merely being kind.
Note: The conference in Thailand did include other Catholic religious - and as the foremost spokesman for the contemplative life in the United States, how could he NOT attend (in the "God's will" sense)? Throughout his life, he grew spiritually. Epiphanies are usually more like sunrises that lightning bolts. And not all abbots/religious superiors are good. In fact, some are horrible. So there will always be tension between the calling of God to one who hears it and the power of one who doesn't hear it. Personally, I don't believe that Obedience for its own sake is necessarily good. I also don't believe that Community for its own sake is necessarily good. Only God determines what is good.
I recommend skipping "The Seven Story Mountain" and reading instead Michael Mott's biography (if you can find it) "The Seven Mountains of Thomas Merton."
I have spoken to Michael Mott. The Benedictine Studia Anselmiana in Rome published a paper that I co-authored on Michael Mott's account of Merton's death in "The Seven Mountains of Thomas Merton.". www.themartyrdomofthomasmerton.com/ewExternalFiles/What%20We%20Know.pdf
Wow, I've never heard of that paper before. Excellent addition to the story.
@@lancejohnson127 Please explain.
I was interested in this 'review' of Merton, hoping to see how his critique of the Vietnam War, violence in general, etc. might have played into his murder (martyrdom?). Instead, his brave truth-telling was 'silenced' in their discussion. So very disappointing, and inexplicable... ?
Murder? According to whom? Merton was a self-serving, self-glorifying, manifest heretic. A ceiling fan in a Bangkok hotel room, fell on him and killed him. Merton was an archetype for the errors and heresies of Vatican II; he was searching for his "god" in the pagan religion of Buddhism. When a Catholic dies an unprepared, sudden death, it is not a good sign.
Thanks for the lesson and all the retreat info. I think I will wait until you folks do a retreat at the Sycamore Tree in Montana. God bless.
Indiscretion? Scripture informs us of sexual sins, which also includes fornication (sex outside of marriage); and, adultery (sexual sin committed against your spouse). The word indiscretion makes these sins seem a bit more tolerable.
Is it your job to judge sins?
I read 7 storey mountain and it tries to come across as Augustine’s confessions but not really, Thomas Mertons Mother and Father wanted nothing to do with religion and they focused on themselves their individual needs with no real affection and so merton grew up the same way and when world war 2 broke out and he was drafted into the war he found a way out and joined a religious order the Trappist monks and there vows of silence etc which he didn’t adhere to, and probably tried to get his brother to join o.n his last visit to him before he did something very selfless he sacrificed his life for the good of mankind as a Sargent in the army .
His many books later imbibed eastern mysticism and the life of the Trappist monk wasn’t for him and he traveled the world joining protest groups and preaching his new age Catholicism, the Catholic Church was a means to an end, for his individual need to be heard and praised.
That is a lot of false information that I don't have time to refute. I'll say a prayer for you though.
@@hughturley1062
It’s the truth maybe he did what he did for good reasons but the fact remains he was drafted and found a way out.
I’m praying for you too
God bless
Fr. Briscoe is from the Fort Wayne-South Bend Diocese!!! Great to see him and hear him preach it on Godsplaining.
Two good balls with no gravitas . I believe if you read the narrative of the Vietnamese Buddhist Thich Nhat Hanh ‘s receiving the Eucharist from one of the Berrigan brothers you will understand Thomas Merton . He was like many Catholic intellectuals who were traumatized by the 2nd Vatican Council. I believe his death was Gods will.
He was murdered. That is not God's will. There were those in the French Intelligence and those in the uS Intelligence that did not want him writing against the Viet-nam war and the French getting the bomb. Read the "Martyrdom of Thomas Merton". There are photos of him dead, NOT the way the monastery described.
Wow Fathers. I am sorry that people feel so free to take disagreement with what you have to say and how you say it, to the level of sneering attack.
Perhaps just find a differemt video to watch?
I enjoy your talks.
18:35 insane that this is even a problem
It’s interesting how any conversation about Thomas Merton always goes to a controversial place. At least you admit that you’ve never really read his work nor even did research before your discussion. May I suggest that you stick to topics that you are passionate about. You come across as disingenuous about a brother in Christ.
My first day of hearing about Merton…. And yeah that’s the go to talking point. So many Christians I’ve come across are so scared to look within themselves or to lists to anyone who has suggested such a thing
@@tookie36 I'd made a retreat to Abbey of Gethsemani about 20 years ago. It was a silent retreat, 3-days long. It's still hard to express what exact I witnessed there. I can simply describe it from my perspective. To me, what seemed like old, frail looking men in robes, transformed into giants who filled the space within its walls with the most powerful worship that I have ever felt. It's never about the man who was Thomas Merton, it's about the Holy Spirit and how it worked through him to lead us to Christ to the Father.
Fr. John Hardon said Merton was not Catholic. He said he was not fully converted.
Dear Catholics: Please come out of this apostate religion, and give your hearts to Christ ... not to Mary. Love to you all.
Merton seems to have been swept up by the 60s and Eastern religion.
Christianity, Catholicism, and the US in general are rediscovering their roots. The East has continued a lot of traditions that the west has taken for granted. I.e meditation, fasting, mantra, etc. of course Catholics have always done these practices but by in large they have been neglected
The Seven Storey Mountain, 10/11/1948
Persevere to the end is important in the letters of St Paul. I’m not sure of Thomas Merton’s public actions at the end of his life could be seen as perseverance in the one true faith.
There is no such thing as the "one true faith". Catholicism developed, as all the rest, over centuries.
I think Pope Francis has has himself muddied the waters when it comes to salvation and other religions
😮 God is too big to fit into a cardboard box. All religions are defined by that belief systems boxes. Thomas Merton and Pierre Teilhard de Chardin called us to see outside our skin, our cardboard box. They both experienced the mystical insight into the Devine. They are weighting for you and me to See our divine presence, shockingly within our humble limited sight!
I love how the hosts are estimating their way thru the topic. Obviously, well read and generally educated.
Mark Van Doren
If anything was worth listening to this podcast, it was reading @hughturley1062's comments here. Thank you very much @hughturley1062 for all the information shared in your comments without the slightest pettiness. And I tell the Dominican fathers that they better inform themselves before making a program. A public ignorant of Merton may be surprised, and others misinformed (what a great responsibility), but someone who has a moderate knowledge of Merton is somewhat disappointed.
@juanvaleri7910 Thank you for your interest in my comments on Thomas Merton. I agree with you that the Dominican friars ought to be better prepared before speaking. Aquinas said that "consequent ignorance" is where we maintain ignorance of things we can and ought to know. Dominican scholars can and ought to know that Merton’s death was not a meaningless bathroom accident.
Oh just stop your pandering clickbait. None of you are qualified to opine about much of anything that pleases God. I think a change is in order - maybe "catholic Podcast".
😊thank you
Neither.
Um. Ehrm... 2 things: Merton hated the sex abuse by monks on the kids, and 2.) And thus and so...he fell in love... with a consenting woman. The end. No issues here.We converts seriously frown on child rape.
Also the current Dalai Lama, pedophile, was flown directly to the Abbey and landed on the hill outside the Abbeys parking lot.
Merton is the only monk in the cemetery to be buried in a coffin at the abbey.
@@msgoody2shoes959 Merton is the only monk in the cemetery to be embalmed and placed in a coffin by the U.S. military.
Agree wholeheartedly.
No one comes to the Father but through the Son who said “I AM the truth, the way, and the life.” Merton did not die for our sin. Jesus did. What I have read this far about these mystics is that Jesus is but one way to God. The mystics deny the atonement. Contemplative Prayer is useless to reaching God. It is nihilism, much like Buddhism. The extinction of the self.
A heretic. Pray for his soul.
Thomas Mertons body of work was introspective psychobabble trying to arrive at the truth through self discernment. Very much a Protestant spirituality. It's part of that new age movement which began in the so-called enlightenment. A new age philisophist palaver which preceded Vatican two. He would have done better sticking with the writings of the great saints, doctors the church, catechism, the founding fathers, mystics, martyrs and the authentic catechism of the Roman Catholic church. Merton just wandered off into the desert of pointless mental exegesis. Martin would have been better of useing the god-given tools and knowledge of the faith. Tools which we have to focus on the prize. He was no Saint Thomas Aquinas or Saint Teresa, or St. Anthony. He more resembled Martin Luther trying to blaze a new path rather than sticking to the tried-and-true pass blaze by Jesus Christ and the one Holy Catholic and apostolic Church. Broad and smooth is the road to damnation. Rocky precipitous is the path to salvation.
Dear Tom Stulc, when you wrote the "body of work was introspective psychobabble trying to arrive at the truth through self discernment. Very much a Protestant spirituality." Specifically what work by Thomas Merton are you talking about? What have you read by Thomas Merton? Merton's book on the Eucharist, "The Living Bread" was very Thomistic.
@@hughturley1062 Why do you think only a handful of dieing off over the hill neo Catholics have ever heard of Thomas Merton.??? Comparing Mertonism to Thomism, isn't that sort of like comparing a sow's ear into a silk purse.? Last of Merton work that I read was being pushed by Protestant convert priest. That was circa 1996 to 1998. This particular priest mocked the apparitions and actions of our Lady. He was proud of converting the middle-aged husband of a church friend. The convert priest eventually resigned his novus ordo priestly career and went back to college in his late fifties to find himself. The gung-ho middle-aged altar server Merton convert took up drugs left his wife lost his excellent hotel business that his wife's family set him up in, squandered the motel monies started a tattoo business an went broke who knows where poor emaciated body and soul is at now. By the way this priest who was busy pushing Mertonism was actively undermining my efforts, which he appointed me to, to catechise a woefully ignorant novus ordo parish. I was a promotor of Marian theology devotion an traditional catholic theology spirituality and catechism. Didn't Thomas Merton run off an have a sexual affair with somebody I don't remember the details, do you!? I certainly don't remember the Merton works that was provided by the wayward neoconservative Novus Ordo priest.. Why reinvent the wheel. Just read the works of Saint Thomas Aquinas. We can judge a tree by the fruit it bears. Merton, in my view, was just another failed neomodernist. Part of that demonic confusion set loose by satan which Haroled in the disaster we know as Vatican Two. Perhaps if you want to learn your faith might I suggest suggest all four Baltimore catechisms, the catechism of the council of Trent. Obtain a Dewey Rheims Bible that adulterated New American Bible or Protestant adulterated revised standard version that you are probably using. Yours truly from the authentic traditional Roman Catholic faith Society of Saint Pius the Fifth. Thomas.
@@tomstulc9143 Reading Aquinas is good advice. Merton was very knowledgeable on Aquinas. You did not answer my questions: Specifically, what work by Thomas Merton are you talking about? What have you read by Thomas Merton?
Merton should be judged by what he wrote. Some wayward priest that you encountered is not relevant. Merton was perhaps the most significant Catholic writer in the 20th century. It seems unfair to condemn Merton without reading anything that he had written..
@@hughturley1062 I was very clear to you I did not recall which works I had read at that time. I read it it had little merit. If it brought you back to the faith, well God bless you. Yours truly in Jesus Joseph and Mary
@@tomstulc9143 Okay. You were characterizing without specifying. I understand.
Very cute gay men.
I like how he wrote and spoke about eastern religions.