Try having them incorporate their feet into the splits as notes. For example, if they're splitting a sextuplet between 1 and 2, have bass 2 think about the phrase like this (f = foot, 8 = 8th note 6 = 16th note): f 8 8 6 f Also, the subdivision within that specific phrase gives bass 2 an upbeat on the 2nd note they play which can be matched to their knee at TDC (top dead center -- an engine term). Lastly, another subdivision tactic is to have them think about the first note of the split as the peak of their upstroke (which also applies to the rest of the notes they're splitting). When bass 1 hits their drum bass 2 should be at TDC of their upstroke. If the students are consistent with hand speed this last tactic can really help solidify consistency. When I'm teaching splits to beginning bass drummers I start very slow (taking the sextuplet as 2 triplets) and have them play the unison rhythm. Then I take out the 2 inner partials ("pl" and "let") on the right hand (to get the f 8 8 6 f rhythm as noted above - R L L L R). Then I have them play only the first right hand note and stomp their foot on what would have been the right hand release (R L L L F). And lastly I take out the right hand completely and have them stomp their foot/feet on what would have been the right hand downbeat and right hand release (F L L L F). This really helps hammer in the foot timing. Once that's good I have them play a quarter note triplet on the right hand (R R R R), rest for 1 quarter note (this is still in the triplet format so that'd be count 4) and then the left hand split + stomps (F L L L F) resting a quarter and then repeating. Finally, I split them into odds and evens and have the odds start with the R hand and the evens start with the L hand so the first time through the loop you have E O E O E O E and the second time through you have O E O E O E O (repeat) -- and they're splitting! (this same approach can be applied to duple patterns as well) As you work them through the tempo range stress uniform heights/sound quality from player to player, proper technique, and the timing tools laid out above; this will help them build a foundation of quality and consistency. I hope this helps!
Your videos are absolutely phenomenal. They assist in teaching so much especially for visual learners. I'll definitely refer students to your videos in the future!!
Personally I would have displayed SCV 2011- now to show an example of wristbreak at the highest level. They also make a much different tone then the cadets in their bass drum playing so that would be a good contrast as well. Good video!
You guys should make a video about beginning to split. Something for beginners to understand what it's about. Love the videos, they help me and my schools bass line achieve proper technique.
Definitely planning to something like this after my next video. I want to provide content to bass drummers of all levels so I'll be jumping around from topic to topic evenly so that no one group gets neglected. Thanks for watching!
Hi! I'm a beginning bass drummer that still needs to learn alot about the basic essentials about playing. I would really appreciate it if you guys could make a video about playing at higher tempos. thank you!
Hey man, I've been playing percussion for a few years, and music in general for a lot longer, and playing at higher tempos is really just a result of playing at lower tempos over and over again. By playing at slower tempos, you begin to understand how the phrase or piece you're playing should sound, and can truly break down the nitty gritty of anything that seems difficult (such as difficult rudiments or weird septuplet splits) without having the thought of "oh my god this tempo is so fast" at the forefront of your mind. Once you get whatever you're having trouble on down pat, you can start bumping up the tempo by 5 or 10 clicks, and repeat the process over again. It can seem time-consuming, but there are no shortcuts to becoming a great musician after all! I hope this helped, good luck!
Hey man I just had a question, when watching RCC, I’ve noticed that some players use a lot arm when playing, it’s it just me that sees that? Is that any different then normal wrist break?
+Ricardo Arana Just from watching a lot of basslines the past DCI and WGI season, there are almost none that play with a true wrist break with absolutely 0% arm. That's a good thing because adding a little arm does get you more bang for your buck, as long as the break of the wrist is still the primary mechanic that's getting your mallet out to prep. It's when players start locking the wrist and relying on mostly the arm to get the mallet out that you start running into problems. Honestly the best example of a bassline pulling off the arm/wrist combo is probably BK in my opinion, check out any videos of them from this past season and you'll see what I'm talking about. 👍
I didn't know cadets used that technique.. I thought when you mimic their style right, you should get an arthritis at the end lol (what most of my instructors kinda joke about.)
Yep! It's definitely a joke that goes around quite a lot. But I personally know players who play both styles and suffer from wrist injuries, and I know players that play both styles and leave without ever getting an injury. So a big part of it is really down to individual technique and how relaxed you play and to refrain from overextending no matter which technique you're using.
The Cadets bass technique is VERY relaxed. The reason why it may look tense to an observer is the velocity used is very high, in order to pull maximum tone out of the drum, and to help maximize the efficiency of the playing. However velocity DOES NOT equal tension! The material that Holy Bass plays is very dense, contains a ton of notes. Using a lot of velocity gets the quickness of rebound happening faster, and helps to get an articulate sound. Some basslines achieve this by putting muffling on the inside of the shell or using double ply heads, in which case your velocity doesn't need to be as high to get an articulate sound, since the head/muffling is doing part of that for you. By putting the foam directly on the drumhead surface, the head can essentially act as a trampoline, unrestricted since the foam moves with the head. This, combined with a highly tuned single ply head causes the mallets to bounce VERY quickly away from the drum creating that 'upstroke' kind of look. I marched Cadets bass, and even I thought the same thing before I marched there. I'm from the west coast where a lot of lines are taught to restrict the elbow/arm motion or to play a little more 'in the box' and everyone around here definitely talked about the Cadets as being tense or playing 'too hard.' I always thought Cadets just pounded the drum and that it must be really tense.... But when I went to Cadets I learned pretty quick that actually it is the MOST relaxed technique. You don't have to think about restricting any kind of motion, if you watch Holy Bass videos you'll notice they use arm, wrist, and finger all together to produce a sound. The fingers act as a rubber band that snaps the stick down towards the drumhead, and your elbow has the freedom to move as a counter-motion to what your hand is doing. The other factor to this is building a very high level of 'chops' or muscle development over the course of the season. So with that, playing big stick heights might look like its taking a lot of tension or exertion to do, but in reality from the perspective of the performers, the muscle is built there and it feels nice and loose, just like dribbling a basketball! Go look up the video titled, 'Cadets Drumline 2017 Double Beat' on here. You can really see what I'm talking about with the relaxation. You can see the mass or 'meat' of the upper arm jiggling with each hit, as well as the legato feeling in the back fingers. Due to not restricting any muscle groups, you can feel the vibration of the wood of the mallet all the way through your arm and into your shoulder blades. This relaxation is what some people call 'soft hands' but like I said if you can get the whole upper arm relaxed into it as well, you're increasing the mass and therefore increasing your quality. Soft hands + Velocity = Sound Quality that you can hear from the Box!!!!! AKA, Newton's Second Law of Motion! Force = Mass x Acceleration.
In fact I should add, if you look at the top DCI basslines I assure you that NONE of them are tense. To play at that level you simply can't be tense, it just doesn't work. I totally admire and respect the unique and different ways that bass technique can be approached, and have played and taught many different styles. I'm a firm believer that there isn't any right or wrong way, it comes down more to how detailed can the instructors get with the information and how quickly you can get the members to all play exactly the same with maximum sound quality. Technique is simply a tool, and I think people, especially beginners, get too worked up or concerned about technique when its more about the HOW not the WHAT.
It's not that one is better or worse than the other they're simply used for different rhythms. It's pretty hard to play diddles, rolls, etc with just wrist rotation. Wrist break gives you more control in your fingers to max out rebound. Or at least that's just what I've picked up I could be wrong
As a BD section leader, this series is so helpful. I'm going to be holding a technique camp in August, and this is going to be so helpful. 👍
Awesome man! Glad to be of help :)
My bass line can't split for their lives. Could you make a video on splitting for beginners?
Try having them incorporate their feet into the splits as notes. For example, if they're splitting a sextuplet between 1 and 2, have bass 2 think about the phrase like this (f = foot, 8 = 8th note 6 = 16th note): f 8 8 6 f Also, the subdivision within that specific phrase gives bass 2 an upbeat on the 2nd note they play which can be matched to their knee at TDC (top dead center -- an engine term). Lastly, another subdivision tactic is to have them think about the first note of the split as the peak of their upstroke (which also applies to the rest of the notes they're splitting). When bass 1 hits their drum bass 2 should be at TDC of their upstroke. If the students are consistent with hand speed this last tactic can really help solidify consistency.
When I'm teaching splits to beginning bass drummers I start very slow (taking the sextuplet as 2 triplets) and have them play the unison rhythm. Then I take out the 2 inner partials ("pl" and "let") on the right hand (to get the f 8 8 6 f rhythm as noted above - R L L L R). Then I have them play only the first right hand note and stomp their foot on what would have been the right hand release (R L L L F). And lastly I take out the right hand completely and have them stomp their foot/feet on what would have been the right hand downbeat and right hand release (F L L L F). This really helps hammer in the foot timing. Once that's good I have them play a quarter note triplet on the right hand (R R R R), rest for 1 quarter note (this is still in the triplet format so that'd be count 4) and then the left hand split + stomps (F L L L F) resting a quarter and then repeating. Finally, I split them into odds and evens and have the odds start with the R hand and the evens start with the L hand so the first time through the loop you have E O E O E O E and the second time through you have O E O E O E O (repeat) -- and they're splitting! (this same approach can be applied to duple patterns as well)
As you work them through the tempo range stress uniform heights/sound quality from player to player, proper technique, and the timing tools laid out above; this will help them build a foundation of quality and consistency. I hope this helps!
The Cadets are using wrist rotation and the Blue Devils are using wrist break
Your videos are absolutely phenomenal. They assist in teaching so much especially for visual learners. I'll definitely refer students to your videos in the future!!
Awesome channel to stumble upon. I'm an orchestral percussionist dabbling in teaching marching/rudimental percussion. Found this super helpful
Personally I would have displayed SCV 2011- now to show an example of wristbreak at the highest level. They also make a much different tone then the cadets in their bass drum playing so that would be a good contrast as well. Good video!
Killed it again! Great job!
Thank you!
Keep these up guys! Being thrown on bass this up coming season after practicing quads for 8 months, and these help a lot!
This video was really helpful guys! The corp. I want to try out for one day uses rotation and this was a great explanation on how to do it.
Glad to be of help!
You guys should make a video about beginning to split. Something for beginners to understand what it's about.
Love the videos, they help me and my schools bass line achieve proper technique.
Definitely planning to something like this after my next video. I want to provide content to bass drummers of all levels so I'll be jumping around from topic to topic evenly so that no one group gets neglected. Thanks for watching!
Cameron, see the reply above that I just shared with Angus.
Muito bom , adoro seus vídeos .
Ive always heard it as west coast technique and east coast technique
I wish there was a channel like this for share so could I check my technique
May I use parts of this video to include in my technical packet for the small local drumline I'm about to start?
Can I use a retuned kick drum without a soundhole as a makeshift bass 4? Or is this stupid?
I would like to know the style of each world class baseline in dci's 2022 season. Please.
Hi! I'm a beginning bass drummer that still needs to learn alot about the basic essentials about playing. I would really appreciate it if you guys could make a video about playing at higher tempos. thank you!
Hey man, I've been playing percussion for a few years, and music in general for a lot longer, and playing at higher tempos is really just a result of playing at lower tempos over and over again.
By playing at slower tempos, you begin to understand how the phrase or piece you're playing should sound, and can truly break down the nitty gritty of anything that seems difficult (such as difficult rudiments or weird septuplet splits) without having the thought of "oh my god this tempo is so fast" at the forefront of your mind. Once you get whatever you're having trouble on down pat, you can start bumping up the tempo by 5 or 10 clicks, and repeat the process over again. It can seem time-consuming, but there are no shortcuts to becoming a great musician after all! I hope this helped, good luck!
How do you know which to do on sheet music?
We learned that in H.S. made a BIG difference in our playing. Only way to do it. Keep the wrists on the rim !!!!!!!
I feel like it's worth mentioning that these styles are for corps style of drumming. Fife drumming is different.
Hey man I just had a question, when watching RCC, I’ve noticed that some players use a lot arm when playing, it’s it just me that sees that? Is that any different then normal wrist break?
+Ricardo Arana Just from watching a lot of basslines the past DCI and WGI season, there are almost none that play with a true wrist break with absolutely 0% arm. That's a good thing because adding a little arm does get you more bang for your buck, as long as the break of the wrist is still the primary mechanic that's getting your mallet out to prep. It's when players start locking the wrist and relying on mostly the arm to get the mallet out that you start running into problems. Honestly the best example of a bassline pulling off the arm/wrist combo is probably BK in my opinion, check out any videos of them from this past season and you'll see what I'm talking about. 👍
What tune do you prefer for 4 bass drum.? 18”, 20”, 24, 28.?
Hi! From bottom to top: D A D F#!
thanks!
No problem! Thanks for watching!
What about the fff part in my show
Could you guys make a video going through the mechanics of diddling for each technique?
Yes sir! Double Strokes on a Bass Drum is a video we already have planned. Thanks for watching!
BASS DRUM GROUP Any updates on when this might come?
@@BASSDRUMGROUP
😢😢😢😢😢
o pattern for o hio state
which bass line is that in the thumbnail?
2013 Bluecoats!
Thank you!
What type of tuning do you prefer for 5 basses
DADF#A
BASS DRUM GROUP Thanks
Holy bass vs Evil bass. I see What you did t there
At 3:45 , you said that forte is full height? My instructor says that this isn't true, a 15 inch height is full vertical, while 12 inches is forte
I agree, but also - 3:38
@@Queeze101 what
Aren’t they both doing wrist rotation????
I didn't know cadets used that technique.. I thought when you mimic their style right, you should get an arthritis at the end lol (what most of my instructors kinda joke about.)
Yep! It's definitely a joke that goes around quite a lot. But I personally know players who play both styles and suffer from wrist injuries, and I know players that play both styles and leave without ever getting an injury. So a big part of it is really down to individual technique and how relaxed you play and to refrain from overextending no matter which technique you're using.
The Cadets bass technique is VERY relaxed. The reason why it may look tense to an observer is the velocity used is very high, in order to pull maximum tone out of the drum, and to help maximize the efficiency of the playing. However velocity DOES NOT equal tension! The material that Holy Bass plays is very dense, contains a ton of notes. Using a lot of velocity gets the quickness of rebound happening faster, and helps to get an articulate sound. Some basslines achieve this by putting muffling on the inside of the shell or using double ply heads, in which case your velocity doesn't need to be as high to get an articulate sound, since the head/muffling is doing part of that for you. By putting the foam directly on the drumhead surface, the head can essentially act as a trampoline, unrestricted since the foam moves with the head. This, combined with a highly tuned single ply head causes the mallets to bounce VERY quickly away from the drum creating that 'upstroke' kind of look.
I marched Cadets bass, and even I thought the same thing before I marched there. I'm from the west coast where a lot of lines are taught to restrict the elbow/arm motion or to play a little more 'in the box' and everyone around here definitely talked about the Cadets as being tense or playing 'too hard.' I always thought Cadets just pounded the drum and that it must be really tense.... But when I went to Cadets I learned pretty quick that actually it is the MOST relaxed technique. You don't have to think about restricting any kind of motion, if you watch Holy Bass videos you'll notice they use arm, wrist, and finger all together to produce a sound. The fingers act as a rubber band that snaps the stick down towards the drumhead, and your elbow has the freedom to move as a counter-motion to what your hand is doing. The other factor to this is building a very high level of 'chops' or muscle development over the course of the season. So with that, playing big stick heights might look like its taking a lot of tension or exertion to do, but in reality from the perspective of the performers, the muscle is built there and it feels nice and loose, just like dribbling a basketball!
Go look up the video titled, 'Cadets Drumline 2017 Double Beat' on here. You can really see what I'm talking about with the relaxation. You can see the mass or 'meat' of the upper arm jiggling with each hit, as well as the legato feeling in the back fingers. Due to not restricting any muscle groups, you can feel the vibration of the wood of the mallet all the way through your arm and into your shoulder blades. This relaxation is what some people call 'soft hands' but like I said if you can get the whole upper arm relaxed into it as well, you're increasing the mass and therefore increasing your quality.
Soft hands + Velocity = Sound Quality that you can hear from the Box!!!!! AKA, Newton's Second Law of Motion! Force = Mass x Acceleration.
In fact I should add, if you look at the top DCI basslines I assure you that NONE of them are tense. To play at that level you simply can't be tense, it just doesn't work. I totally admire and respect the unique and different ways that bass technique can be approached, and have played and taught many different styles. I'm a firm believer that there isn't any right or wrong way, it comes down more to how detailed can the instructors get with the information and how quickly you can get the members to all play exactly the same with maximum sound quality. Technique is simply a tool, and I think people, especially beginners, get too worked up or concerned about technique when its more about the HOW not the WHAT.
I was on a Cadets bassline and once I got the hang of rotation, it was actually very comfortable. It’s all about focus and relaxation.
which technique is better?
Don't know that one can be called better, but everyone has a preference
It's not that one is better or worse than the other they're simply used for different rhythms. It's pretty hard to play diddles, rolls, etc with just wrist rotation. Wrist break gives you more control in your fingers to max out rebound. Or at least that's just what I've picked up I could be wrong
@@daniellehutchison1735
You tell 'em, Dani 🙌🏾
Am I the only person who uses and teaches a hybrid technique between the two?
I do as well
haha he said field of view