Should Gay People Go To Homophobic Countries?
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- čas přidán 27. 11. 2017
- Should gay people visit homophobic countries on holiday or for work? What do you think?
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*nods aggressively in agreement for 5 minutes*
Riley J. Dennis Hehe I did this as well with the occasional "yeah" and "mmhmm".
🤣🤣🤣😁😁😁😁🙌💖💖💖👍
I am me I'm sure everyone likes you
Whatever you do, when you hide your sexuality in countries where homophobia is rampant, please for the love of god don't say we did it to "respect the local culture". I remember watching a gay guy who traveled to Iran with his boyfriend who said that in his video documenting it, and as an Iranian gay man it felt like a slap in the face of all LGBT Iranians. Homophobia isn't culture. It's people with legally sanctioned power exercising that power. To frame it as "cultural" is to deny the existence and the resistance of those who are affected by it.
Good point.
(Maybe people are just ashamed to admit they're just hiding their LGBT identity because it's the easiest way for them to stay safe)
it's also really rude to the culture of that place because the laws of a place don't define the culture etc
@@potato._.1 sadly there is way to much mix between tradition/beliefs/culture and the laws, since culture can influence services and organization. A belief can alter the law. Or a cultural heritage (like bullfighting for example) can be ignored when looking at certain laws (such as laws against animal abuse).
I'm confused. Shouldn't you be more upset at the actual country than someone's decision to stay safe? IMO, don't go to Iran if it's dangerous to gays. Lgbt Iranians who can leave should, and those that can't must subvert the system every chance they get. Iran isn't progressive enough and deserves criticism. You want to slap someone for your country's lack of progress? Don't police his thought process, the country is the issue.
@@Caliban201 They never said they wanted to slap the person, OP said that it felt like a slap in the face (as in it hurt them) to see people talk about respecting the homophobic culture, when it isn't the culture. Just unjust laws.
If you're "out"( like on social media or a somewhat well-known individual ), one should avoid countries when one could be arrested for being lgbt. It's common sense to me. There are homophobic (and dangerous ) people everywhere but if the law can't protect you ( even a little )then all bets are off. Your safety is more important.
I don't see not going to blatantly homophobic countries as hypocritical at all. I know as a woman, for example, that my country is still sexist, but I still wouldn't feel conformable travelling to a country where a woman isn't allowed to drive or walk around alone. I don't think we should generalize and in a way flatten all values and oppression into one "everybody is oppressed in some way" umbrella. If a queer woman for example can still be successful and out in America and get married and live freely for the most part, but still experiences homophobia, I find it rather odd to say that could be in any way equatable to the same person being sentenced to death or imprisonment, despite all stemming from homophobia. The circumstances are wildly different. The variants of these situations are 100% relevant.
A personally relevant example for me is being Jewish (atheist, but still Jewish) and Israeli. My Israeli passport and my name alone could put me in danger in some areas of even the most "civil" western countries, but I'd be down right hunted in or barred from others. I would still happily move to countries that are not as accommodating to my identity as Israel is for me, but would never dream of going to countries where my life would be in grave danger. I don't think of it as us vs. them as suggested below, I've studied enough about the topic to know there're reasons for this hatred (many of which stem from deeply rooted anti-semitic views), but that doesn't change anything factually and putting some kind of guideline forward is not only helpful in my opinion - but absolutely vital.
I don't think she meant not going to them would be hypocritical, but bragging about that and acting superior because of it.
Yes, but women don't get the killed by law.
Israelis are rightly despised around the world for their racism and islamophobic treatment of palestinians. Israel is a racist apartheid state and it's pathetic how you think it's "anti semitic" when people speal out against your racist colonialist country.
Didn't really have a choice as I was born in one 😂
I had a very sad experience last year in Myanmar where homosexuality is illegal. I was doing a trek with my friend and a couple from Spain, two men. Somehow my "gaydar" told me pretty early on that they must be together - it was the way they spoke to each other, and to us about their travels - a bit like my parents would have. Our guide asked them if they were "brothers or friends" and they answered "friends". This made me less sure, but at the same time, they would have had no choice but to answer that. All day long they had pictures taken of them without touching each other, not even an arm over a shoulder. If they had been a straight couple, our guide would have made them kiss before the camera. And had they been just a woman and a man traveling together as friends he would asume they WERE together. The next morning I suddenly saw them holding hands. I wispered to my friend that we had been right about them, but she didn't smile and told me that one of them had just received a phone call - a bad one. We had a break and they were let alone, one of them in grief, the other trying to comfort him. This made me so sad: That it took a tragic phone call for them to be able to show affection for each other. That two people who love each other can't hold hands on their holiday photos - and of course that so many people in Myanmar don't have the option of just flying home to a place where they could.
Of course this story doesn't solve the problem at all - the phone call would have been as devastating no matter where they where. I don't think there's anything principally wrong with traveling to countries that have some things to work on because
1) Turism can incent devoping countries to move in the "right direction" (if slowly).
2) So called developed countries have some things to work on too!
3) Some of the things Rowan said + other clever reasons
I think when you talk about safety you also have to think about how you are perceived in terms of gender expression and things like that. At least that would be a mager concern for me.
PX Xaver Yeah, this is what I was thinking. Upon meeting me most people assume that I am straight so I would feel more comfortable going to these places then some of my friends who are immediatly assumed to be queer in some way.
My answer: Heeeell no, unless you are prepared to fake it like Supergirl.
#supercorpendgame
For me personally, safety is the most important thing and while I think it’s up to everyone to decide what they want to do for themselves, it’s something everyone needs to consider. Don’t put yourself and others at risk.
I was discussing this with a friend last night. So great to hear your thoughts on it. Thank you
As for Russia, I think tourists visiting the country don't do anything unethical. I mean all tourists, not just LGBTQ tourists.
Putin doesn't need your money, he has his oil. For him, the effects of tourism are only harmful, unless you visit something like Olympics or World Cup (and kind of promote Putin). But even then, the last World Cup caused a drop of xenophobia (as shown by public polls). Tourism generally has a democracizing effect.
Putin's government knows this and is not really fond of tourism: the industry is small, Russian Visa is not the easiest. Vice versa, leaving country is prohibited to Russian policemen and various military servants.
I'd probably go anywhere where homosexuality is not criminalized.
As for helping LGBTQ in Russia, things that work:
1. Carefully targeted sanctions.
2. Doing something about key Putin's cronies and servants. Many have property in EU, some anti-LGBTQ journalists even got Green Cards.
Yes, these rich Russians don't belong in Europe.
I'm a pan girl living in one of those homophobic countries, though probably one of the better ones. And while I love that you're considering all the different viewpoints, and just how thoughtful you're being, I feel that you're a bit too lenient in your assessment. Like yeah, I know that we shouldn't pretend that places like England are perfect, but it doesn't mean that it's comparable to, say, Saudi Arabia. And for me, traveling to these countries have a lot to do with morals. Yeah, I probably won't be harassed in Russia if I go there, but I still won't when the president says that I CAN go there, but only if I "leave the children in peace". That comment wouldn't in England. I think that these countries could so easily be kinder, and I really hate how much they're burying their heads in the sand, so I won't support their stupidity.
this awkward moment when you're gay AND living in Russia
As a pan person who lives in a homophobic country my answer is no, i can't even wait to get away from here
I just don't want to die or go to jail. I will stick with not countries with the death penalty or laws against us. And any country with prejudice which I am not familiar with (even places like Australia that I hear is more conservative and doesn't even have equal marriage yet I would hesitate.) It isn't just about "they are worse than us" (although with places like Russia hell yeah I feel safer here) it's also "I don't understand the culture or how people here specifically will react to what". I get uncomfortable in the more southern parts of the USA too. Places like that I can travel alone no problem as I am straight passing and they don't have scary laws against us but I would hesitate to go there with a gf or wife. And I would DEFINITELY not bring my wife and kids (which I hope to have someday) there without doing A LOT of research to make sure they are safe. No way I would risk their safety for anything. But it all depends on how bad they are and who I am trying to protect. Yeah we should be able to do things straight people do but I wouldn't put myself or my family at risk just for a vacation or on principal. And it's hard to judge other county's people when like you said there are lgbt people there suffering under the law and allies. It isn't their fault if they have a corrupt government. We are lucky to live where we are not better than them. For me it is not about proving a point it is about feeling safe.
For me it's a matter of principle. I could probably pass as straight but I am not going to leave my money in homophobic countries and I wish more LGBTQ people did the same.
I just found your channel and 1 of my new favorite CZcamsrs
Thanks! Please keep good work!
Obviously not relevant to the safety side of things, but why do we never ask or question of straight people should restrict their travel to boycott countries?
Not sure I fully understand your question. Do you mean asking straight people who are allies? Or generally straight people? Or generally people?
The ethics and responsibility of tourism in countries with human rights issues are discussed quite a bit - just google 'should I travel to a country with human rights abuses' or a variation thereof. For me personally the question arose before I had any feeling that I might become a targeted person myself.
www.google.co.uk/search?q=should+I+travel+to+a+country+with+human+rights+abuses
Sometimes we do not have options, financially. Financial freedom is a privilege not everyone has.
THERE’S CONCENTRATION CAMPS IN RUSSIA?!?!?!?!?
My partner and I were expressly told that we would not be allowed to go on a particular cruise to a Caribbean country because the country would revoke a lot of the privileges of the cruise line if gay couples were "flaunting" themselves after exiting the ship. This was in 1995, so things have changed a little bit, but I know that there are countries I've been told I could go to for work that I've refused to because they were unsafe in my opinion for me to go.
I’m queer and I’ve travelled extensively in homophobic countries, even to places where my sexuality is punishable by death. I wouldn’t do that if I wasn’t at least somewhat straight passing, and I wouldn’t do that as a couples trip with a same sex partner. But other than that, there’s no reason why I wouldn’t travel to these places.
A) Legal punishments aren’t for being gay, they are for having homosexual sex. Just hold off on sex for two weeks.
B) I am a white tourist from a rich western country. That brings with it immense privilege and protection. Being scared and pretending I’m the victim of these laws when I’m not the target or primary victim of them is kind of ridiculous.
C) Be smart, take precautions, and you’ll probably be safer than many people in your own country.
A- You're policing your body on behalf of bigotry and hiding an essential part of yourself.
B- You aren't the victim yet. You /are/ being targeted at all times.
C- This sounds like a lot of work and mental strain for travelling to a country that lacks progress. Don't spend your money. fuck em.
B) is very true tbh. my country is homophobic but i think foreigners especially western white people will be safer from the law and from the people too.
but i don't know that much about the law tho so don't question me further
In terms of safety, one thing to consider is how the country treats tourists vs locals. Some may treat "rich" white western visitors with more leniency.
i think (cis) femme lesbians have more leeway with this than butches, simply bc the ppl who see you out n about might never know. like the decision for me has to be 100% based on safety, it's not in the least bit theoretical, whether i'm alone or with my partner (who as a trans lesbian would be in even more danger than i am). there are some countries, where the laws are less strict but social attitudes remain, that we'd consider visiting (if we could afford it lol) but there's no way we'd go alone or just the two of us
I LIVE in a notoriously very homophobic country...😓
Which one?
You can move.
巨人の肩 where? How will she find a new job? Or a new house? Maybe she already lives in a great nation but can’t stand the homophobia?
Why don’t you just move all of a sudden?
@@shoulders-of-giants rubbish. Not everyone can move, not everyone has options.
You talk about this in your video, but to add, I think it's problematic to have these divisions of "the homophobic countries" vs. us (also sexist countries vs. us). These divisions often ignore why those countries have their attitudes (which are often chalked up to religion, race, or backwards primitiveness), ignore our homophobic societies, and justify imperialist/pinkwashing attitudes (instead of spreading Godliness, we're now spreading "democracy" and "progressivism").
There's also the issue you brought up of gay people in homophobic countries. If we shouldn't go there, does that mean they should try to leave?
Homophobia has been on the rise in Uganda thanks to the preaching of an American Pastor. So..sometimes hatred was *imported* from White/Western countries. (Also, Middle Eastern terrorism was the direct result of USA's actions during the Cold War)
As soon as you said not to go somewhere where there was a death penalty for being gay, I looked up flights to Yemen 😂
Interesting topic :D
Great topic. However, I'd just add to your point about the countries which can be defined as 'homophobic' but which nonetheless have a gay subculture which tourists can immerse themselves in - I always see that as wading in muddy waters there because (and this is just my broad perception) that those countries where homophobia and misogyny are rife, where lgbt people suffer penalties of varying degrees of severity, but which nonetheless have a thriving sexual underground culture, tend to be the poorer countries. In any case, as it's illegal, that means there is no regulation and safety for the natives themselves, so it's most likely an exploitative one. Foreigners in this case would be propping up a highly unjust and brutal system.
Isn't also very hypocrite to boycott countries because they are homophobic when your ancestors put these homophobic laws in there? Example, the article 230 in Tunisia that criminalise homosexual activities was put in place in 1913 under the French colony, just like a lot of the 70 countries that are homophobic today. Also if you go to countries that are apparently not homophobic but where they kill other people and make war, isn't that homophobic?
I'm moving to Beijing to work for the foreign office of my home country next year. In my application I put my involvement in the LGBTQ community. I'm a bit cautious to see how me being queer in a homophobic country affects me and those around me. Thank you for this eloquent analysis, as always. Cheers!
China makes no sense.
Rowan, do you script your videos?
Both... I think safety and principle, but obviously this varies from place to place and sadly even home.
Talk about the love Simon movie!
I totally disagree with the point that our countries (ie western nations) are anywhere near as bad as Saudi Arabia and Russia, the U.K. so loosely defines hate crime that it can be anything from someone being called queer in a derogatory way, so that 1 in 5 stat is kinda bogus.
@Eugene Kendrick there are laws in some u.s. states that enable people to murder trans people in a "panic"
@Eugene Kendrick I'm pretty sure they are referring to the gay panic defence. Look it up if interested.
Well I'm bi and trans and aiming for a career in professional wrestling, the one reliable paycheck for which lies in the US, and I'm honestly quite terrified. I'll still go ahead with it however. But yeah, they tour the country all the time including the deep south and you make your own arrangements for hotels while they do. It's going to be pretty dubious in some areas. I have to look on it a bit like my version of soldiering. You give your life, that's what you start with. If it then doesn't get taken from you, that's a bonus. Gotta follow those dreams and do what's right.
I'd imagine people reacting by questioning why anyone would ever do such a thing. But aside from taking a path you can take and doing what you're good at, there's also the thing of having your life truly mean something. If it's just rolling by you and you're taking up space and time but not doing anything with it, I don't think that's life. If you're actually making efforts toward eventually making a difference, well that's life. So in a way being safer seems more like death to me, well it does if I can't follow my heart anyway.
And before you write me off as ridiculous, it's exactly the most ridiculous among us that hit home the hardest with what they say, for they embrace what it is to be human and are ashamed of nothing about it. I will influence more people with my bread-earning circus act than some responsible cog in the middle position of a self-eating money machine ever would. Or maybe and hopefully not, if they know what they're doing in that world! I know what I'm doing in this world, and so that's the thing I'm going for.
I can see it as a genuine risk to life. My skin colour protects immensely against that, but it's largely cancelled out by the other thing. Nobody's going to give that much of a damn that I'm bisexual probably, and maybe not even that I have my own set of beliefs that don't conform to a major religion. But being trans? Yeah, that's a risk. And I'm going to be open and proud about it, as I am currently. And very public in being that way, and not let anyone think I'm just playing a character - they'll know it's really me, no excuses. I could be killed. I mean the attempt hasn't not happened, even just here in the UK.
I've already lived way beyond how long I statistically speaking should've lasted though so hey, think of it like this. Any piece of life I live is a thing nobody can take from me, not ever. I might die right now and that still all happened. I think about this a lot, the world is an intensely worrying place, especially crazy countries like the US. I've always been wired to fight for something, though. So I guess it comes a bit naturally.
And yeah if I do go over there and find it to not be the case after all then, well honestly I won't care about how stupid I look then, since right now the possibility looks very real, and better that than be unprepared if shit does go down. It is a very eventual goal though (as any career is if you're not already rich or suddenly fortunate), so maybe things could change by the time I get there. In which direction is another matter...
The South is not some 1900s Hellscape. Especially if you're primarily spending time in urban centers--Austin, Jackson, Little Rock, Memphis, New Orleans, etc--you'll be fine. Again, as Rowan stated in this video, its important to remember that there are LGBTQ people living and loving in these "homophobic" places. There are hundreds of thousands of LGBTQ Southerners who wouldn't want to live anywhere else, including myself, my girlfriend, and many of my gay and trans friends. It's silly and bigoted to color an entire region of an entire country in a certain way based off of stereotypes and media misrepresentations.
Well it's not just media representations, it's also governmental travel recommendations that the south of USA has had against it. So yeah I was taking the warnings a bit seriously, given that. And do also remember that plenty of LGBTQ people live and love in places that still ARE homophobic (and dangerously so). So just because there are people there, I didn't imagine that to be any indication of its safety necessarily.
I mean it wasn't that long ago that you had that whole bathroom police thing going on, that's a pretty terrifying state of affairs when some hate-filled lawmaker can just casually throw that onto the books for a while, I imagine for kicks and giggles as they'd probably see it. You can't have shit like that going on and not expect it to affect the judgement of those who don't live there and don't know what it's like. That's not a stereotype that's like, a piece of actual legislation that actually occurred and a terrible thing that actually went on. Just one example.
I appreciate your viewpoint I really do, but it's daft to call my concerns "bigoted". That's insulting. That's positing some genuine fears caused by actual things as "the same" as someone who hates queer people. Not the same thing by a long stretch. Not even in the same universe.
Up to the point where you said that, I was cautiously encouraged by your comment. But if you think that me having great fears about a region that has been actually demonstrated to be dangerous to LGBT people, is in any way comparable to the people doing the oppression in the first place? Then it makes me think that perhaps you've not faced a lot of that. Which... could be extremely encouraging. Or, it could just mean you've been lucky. I don't know which way to judge it, honestly. That was quite a blunt and unnecessary insult to throw though, come on you gotta see how that doesn't fly... surely?
I mean even just the whole country to begin with has a president who jokes in a tweet that his 2nd wants to kill all the gays, so y'know. He thinks that's a fine message to send. I don't think it's only the media that's behind these fears. If I get there and it's fine I'll think that's absolutely awesome, don't get me wrong I'll be extremely glad (and extremely confused as to how all those things that caused the fears in the first place could've happened in such an actually-accepting place).
I mean was that just kinda a nationalistic reaction or something? Did I say something particularly untactfully that made you angry? I was honestly just being fairly conversational and open about what I'm scared of. Wasn't meaning it as a knock on where you live, whatsoever.
I am glad to know it can be safe for some people in some areas, that is encouraging. Your post was still encouraging. Just confusing with the calling me 'bigoted' and the whole generally defensive tone and such. Like you were being attacked... did I really come across as if I was attacking you? I hope not, and I'm sorry if I did. I'm just quite muddled now.
Flip the script: When vacationing, give your dollars to out-and-proud LGBT+ friendly countries that are better than the UK and US, and then you’re actively supporting the economies that love you.
Which countries are like that tho 😭
this is a topic i have been thinking about a lot and i have changed my mind many times. on the one hand i am very much a principle kind of person and don't want to support a homophobic country in any way. but I have also met some lovely (queer) people from many of such countries who i can visit and whose country and culture I would love to get to know better.
my approach (currently) is taking those kind of once in a lifetime opportunities when they present themselves but when planning a holiday i stick to countries i consider less homophobic.
I was diagnosed with an uncommon strain of bacteria in a hospital in the UAE in 2013 when I was making a stop there from Ireland to Australia, which meant my family and I had to stay there for six days while I was being nursed back to health. I was openly bisexual to people back home, but obviously, this was a country where I knew absolutely nobody. So being LGBT+ in a so-called "homophobic" country, itself, isn't an issue. It's not like I was doing the do with girls there, or guys either, for that matter. I just wanted to get healthy.
As a nonbinary person, I'm feeling really nervous for the future. Right now I'm a teenager and I haven't transitioned yet, I'm trying to explain it to my parents as the first step, but once I do, if I decide to go to a transphobic country, I'm going to have to compromise my identity and feel incredibly disphoric the whole trip, cause otherwise I'd be putting myself at risk. I'm honestly not sure what I'm going to do. The most frustrating thing is that I'm Israeli, and Hebrew can't be spoken in gender neutral. I'm gonna find a way to speak neutral with my family, but there's no way I'd be able to use that In Israel. I find the idea of feeling ostrichised in my own home county incredibly upsetting, and I hope I can figure something out. For the time being, I'm gonna focus on transitioning here.
If anything should be made ilegal it should be bigotry, there is only one race that is the human race, and together we should embrace our differences, if we were all the same I think it would be a boring old world, it is so good to see such an intelligent young person thinking on these matters it gives hope for our future😊P.S. anybody reading this ask yourself this question how many people did you smile at today.
If I’m thinking about volunteering somewhere for a number of months that is highly discriminatory or has laws against LGBT+ people, should I avoid coming out on social media so that I can get permission to go there?
I want to travel the world and I’ve always been passionate about it and I always wanted to make CZcams videos, but I don’t want to because I want to be authentic and want to talk about a range of topics one of them being gay. I don’t want to post because I feel as though I’d have to hide a part of myself (whether that be my physical appearance or my sexuality) just so I’d feel secure going into these countries and I don’t want to take that chance away since I’ve always wanted to travel. Kinda stumped on what to do so if anyone has any advice feel free to share but Rowan said it’s not black and white but I would be afraid to be so open online and going to a country that would use social media to vindicate people because of it idk thoooouuughhh
Go to iran anf show them how tough u lgbt are xd
So many good points raised! Great video! But I wanted to add a few things as a Russian person. Gay girls are much safer in Russia than boys. You mentioned sharing a double bed in a hotel. I did that several times in Russia and was totally fine. But I would not recommend doing that to males. Moreover, most tourists go to places that are extremely safe anyway. The most hateful places in Russia are not attractive and not marketed to tourists. I think Russia needs to be included in global conversions, if the country is boycotted the situation would only get worse in my opinion.
If they want to, of course!
In other news: Is two plus three five?
At first I thought you'd said you'd worked as a "cheater" :D I stayed in two different homophobic countries for two years and I simply wasnt out just to make sure...
KeAnA I didn't catch what she actually said. What did she used to work as?
KeAnA she worked as a tutor.
I know that's why I wrote that i just thought at first that she'd said something else and was confused for a sec ;)
KeAnA I think they might have been intending to reply to me.
okay :D
My view is a mix of both safety and principle because basically if I went to one of these places and didn’t get arrested basically right away I would feel like I did something wrong so for my safety I don’t go there. That’s just my personal view relating to my own behaviour wouldn’t place it on other people’s choices to travel. Tbh I don’t think I could go to Russia without attempting to start a pride march
I wouldn't do a pride march if I went there regardless if I'm bi.
I'm a lesbian but currently not out to all my family. We are from Hungary and go there every summer as a holiday. I grew up in a VERY homophobic part of Hungary, and I don't feel safe even in other towns because 53% of my own people don't think I should be able to get married and more than 20% thinks I should be killed, that's an awful lot of people. And of course I don't have any choice in where I go because my parents decide that and I'm not out to them even though I'm sure my mom knows. I don't know what would happen if I came out, I don't want to stop seeing my family either (I'm even out to my cousin) and I don't want to stop my family from having a good time but I really don't want to go this year. Any advice?
Be an antinatalist and come out to your family members. If they don't want anything to do with you, accept the outcome. Try to connect with people you think can support you.
I personally think that Viktor Orban should cool it with his far-right ideology.
Great video!
two gay friends of mine live in georgia. yeah u can figure out why that sucks
There are times to go when it would be safe, or mostrly safe if you need to, even in war zones.
I was thinking no for safety reasons though on a case by case basis for myself.
As far as my experience goes, and I know this is not true for most people, Majority of the population doesn't really care, it's the institutions and the government that make a big issue about things.
or they say something like "God will judge you after your death" if they're religious and then leave you alone for the most part...
Well before going to a coutry, do your research and be well prepared. I think people should decide for themselves if they want to stand for Lgbt+ people in other countries. But you must first know of the risks.
Standing against homophobia in countries which you've never really been a part of can harm more than help. Cultural differences and such.
I don't know, I live in a coutry (Sweden) where gay marriage is legal and has been for a few years (since 2009) but even though I did grow up in Sweden I did have homophobic tendencies as a kid. Few but they were there because of what I'd heard other say about homosexuals, what I associated with the word instead of the actual people. I have since learned better than this, but I learned better because I had manny positive experiences where Lgbt+ people were involved and these positive experiences slowly but surely gained more weight than the negative ones. So from my own experience I think the best way to 'fight' homophobia, transphobia etc is by showing and sharing more positive experiences with people. But meet them where they are, never try to force someone to accept people (well more like the reputation they have for those people) they have too many negative associations with.
I live in one, so...
devanshi chauhan where
India and Dubai
I heard about a travel warning that some UK tourist group gave to LGBT citizens. Apparently they warned that despite the US being a very diverse country, North Carolina may be unsafe to visit due to certain laws. I live in the US. My cousin and her girlfriend(fiancé actually but that’s too non gendered) live in North Carolina. You warn people not to come here but we are already here living and loving one another.
If ur going somewhere that being gay is punishable by death, how would they even find out if ur gay? Like, do they specifically look for things in your past or like, use stereotypes to decide if they think you’re gay? Or is it only if u explicitly refer to yourself as gay or do explicitly gay things like kiss a member of the same sex in the middle of the street. Like, how far r they investigating? How careful do we need to be? Just wondering cause I was thinking of travelling with a friend and we aren’t tryna die.
*only if you're a same sex or appear to be a same sex couple (when talking about the dangers of going as a couple)
I think the social construction of "homophobic" vs "non-homophobic" countries needs to be broken down before we can even begin having this conversation, and addressing the fact that non-Western countries are way more likely to be labelled "homophobic" and to be criticised for it.
I also think we'd need to address the extreme amount of privilege in choosing whether or not you should go somewhere based on principles or safety alone. This presumes an awful lot of things, like, where you were born, where your family is, what kind of passport you have, whether you’re forced to leave your home country or go somewhere due to a variety of factors, etc.
I would also side-eye e.g. a white queer person who would refuse to give money to a country due to its homophobia, but is perfectly fine giving money to places like Australia, U.S., and Europe, ignoring principles such as "is this country imperialist? Is this country racist? How is this country treating refugees and immigrants?"
The financial aspect imo is already a ridiculous criticism unless there's a large scale boycott of something with tangible goals you'd be breaking. The thing I'd side eye is people going to countries on the basis of their advertising as LGBT friendly for tourism, without considering treatment of people living there, as well as any other cases of flouting ignorance of others' oppression. Honestly I start to get annoyed by ideas like this, because any criticisms based on the idea that you can buy your way to fixing oppressive systems is upholding capitalism, the central structure to much of the oppression faced by non western countries in the first place.
4Tom4lepus4 The law, and human rights, are more complicated than that. While laws explicitly targeting LGBT+ people are clear signs of a state oppressing the community, a country which makes hate crimes against LGBT+ people illegal can still fail to enforce the law while enhancing public opinions in favour of homophobia and dogwhistling. For example in the UK for a time laws prevented non cishet identities from being talked about and this was clear targeting of one group as part of oppression. But in the US schools which teach abstinence only sex ed wouldn't through this alone be targeting any group. Yet they result in disproportionate effects on AFAB people who have penetrative sex through teen pregnancies, and gay AMAB people as well as trans AMAB people who are sexually active through HIV, compared to much less of an effect on cis straight men. Does the difference in laws make the US in this case less homophobic, biphobic or transphobic than the UK? I'd say it doesn't. So explicitly targeted laws aren't the only measure, you have to judge whether there is significantly more of a barrier for LGBT+ folks than cishet to accessing their human rights, which doesn't just look at explicit state oppression, but also capitalist support of systemic oppression through working conditions etc, societal attitudes and lastly whether any LGBT+ people who are multiply marginalised end up suffering even more from systemic oppression of their other groups than cishet people would. E.g. what if a country treats white LGBT+ folks well, but there's significant homophobia against LGBT+ people of colour, then they're homophobic but white people wouldn't be affected and might not notice.
0:25. Hey, you know, those concentration camps are in Chechnya a republic of Russia. It is Muslim majority. Let that sink in.
RUth Spiteri It’s true. Though the non-Muslim orthodox Christian population is largely homophobic too.
@@Samchocolate11 not really? I live around people who go to church regularly and so on and I attended religious education in both middle and high school and not once had I heard someone in my surroundings say "homosexuallity is wrong because God said it's a sin". Church can get a bit noisy when they see PRIDE coming near, but this year they were pretty quiet. In southern parts of country I heard people say they find it disgusting, but not because "it's a sin" -it's because they don't understand it that they find it crazy, because it's not common that they find it abnormal. I'm not saying that everyone's expirience with Serbia, as an Ortodox country, was same as mine - this is just how it was for me. I myself came out only to my close friends and family, but few of my friends in high school were pretty open about it and, as far as I know, they didn't get in much of a trouble because of it.
@@Samchocolate11 but if you only said it referring to Russia, sorry for getting trigered.
Selena Ivanovic - Yeah I was only refereeing to Russia. I think Serbia would be different (though I don’t know for sure) because south Slavic and Balkan countries have a different culture and mentality in my opinion.
There are plenty of Muslim republics in Russia, Chechenya had the concentration camps going in their period of independence when they were a jihadist state supported by Saudi Arabia and the like and just stuck since a lot of the separatist beraucracy was allowed to stay in power in exchange for loyalty to Moscow, I wouldn't say it's Islam necessarily just as Christhians aren't inherently homophobic but a lot more so Islamic fundamentalism and unfortunately Chechnya still has that
THIS VIDEO IS AMAZING
You're very nice and this video made me sad but um... That's life. It wasn't that I didn't know this stuff it's just hearing it all again is what's unpleasant. Sorry if this makes no sense.
Wait, I'm not a native speaker - what was your former job? Even when replaying the clip I couldn't understand the word you were saying 🙈
She was a tutor/teacher that flew out to teach children all around the world (Eg: the boy in Paris) 🙂
vaginimus is a harry potter spell
There are also some countries where being gay is criminalised, but it’s not enforced. I used to live in Singapore, and from the outside you’d think you shouldn’t travel there as a gay person because of its criminalisation of gay people, but there is a (albeit small and controlled by the government, or so I heard) Pride parade of sorts, and I saw several LGBT+ flags up in Chinatown. It’s still very conservative when it comes to public perception, and I’ve never been there as an out (I’m closeted) tourist so I don’t know what travel is like, but it’s not as bad as it might seem.
oh hi a viewer from Russia here
As an asexual woman who's family is Slavic/Eastern European, it's hard, because although I do love Russian history, I have always feared going to Russia, even though I'd love to explore my ethnic roots, mostly because I feel as though I'd be living a lie, and honestly, because Slavic men can be ridiculously sexually aggressive and not take no for an answer, even if you do speak parts of Slavic languages. Plus part of me just protests obviously on a moral standpoint. It's tragic though, when I did do some courses in undergrad on Russian Literature, and there's such things like literary tours of Russia. :(
Yes
Hi. So I want to tell you something. You give different information and ideas and discuss them on such a monotone voice that me, as a non native English speaker, barely understands the start and end of each point.
At the end, I have listened to some minutes of you, constantly talking, and I have not take away anything from it.
I like to know more, but I cannot use your videos as a source. I don't get your point of view, your opinion of rigth and wrong at the end of your videos.
I don't have that problem with other creators, even though they are British or have other accents.
I think if you put some silence, breaks,.. between each point, that will help a lot.
the difference with your own country vs another country that's equally or more homophobic is that you know the social mores of your own country whereas you might not have the time, energy or ability to learn the ins and outs of 'how not to get harrassed in a foreign country for not being cishet'. travel should boil down to a mix of principle and safety, with safety coming first, and whilst you already mostly know how to live and survive in your own country, you won't have that much knowledge elsewhere. if you're looking to do some activism, you have more chance to research and in doing so, learn the laws, learn the culture, learn the language, learn how not to out yourself. keep a low profile, go with a goal in mind. also, principle factors in a lot more here - if you don't want to give homophobia your gay tourism money, you should research how best to spend your money in that country. but if you're just looking for a holiday, you should think about your safety first, and screw everything else.
2:17 who doesn't immediately think about safety??
It's a sad state of affairs the world we live in.
I’m spending all of pride month in Russia T~T
My opinion is both safety and principle. For one, I don't want to be killed or arrested is a country where it's illegal to be gay or display public homosexualitity(Im a gay guy) or gender deviance. The other part is that so feel it is unfair to the people in Anit LGBT (defining that as in having homophobic or transphpbic law and policy). Like is it okay for me to just go and pass as straight in order to have some days in a country where my people are suffering? The only reason I would go to one is activism. Its the same way so would be never gone to The South during the ends of slavery except for politics or journalism. I won't support any bigoted economy, local, regional or even national
Re: LGTB leisure time is worth 65 Million (Sic). That seems like a very low number to me.
As to why there is still projadice towards people that are lgbt in the east, is due to colonization, where then anti lgbt ideas came from the west (Africa) and religious divide (middle-east).
Answer: No, you shouldn't.
They don’t want you there and rightfully so
I don't think so unless you really really have to but if they're super homophobic just don't and even being American will get hate it's like if you went to Church's Chicken (never ever Chick-Fil-A I hate their hate) in North Korea they'd be like imma spit on your food bish and they'll get a raise for it
If you're white and gay/lesbian and you want to openly express your sexual preference in a violently homophobic country with fundamentally religious, cultural and racial differences to your own, by all means go ahead and use your privilege.
There are some countries punish privileged ones... The more u r privileged more harsh the punishment is gonna be...
I still would like a summer house in Russia.
I mean...not if they want to survive.
Or just travel where you want but dont tell people you are gay?
No.No they don't.
Found this just now. But it resonated. I lived in a country where "sodomy" is illegal when I was a teenager, before I was out or even knew I was queer. I continue to go back because there are people there that I love. Because I believe that people can be more than their colonial era laws say they should be. And I have come to know and care about lgbt people there too. This dynamic isn't easy. It's hard. I cry when I write about it. But this odd combination of things is my life, and I get to live in this weird intersection of worlds.
Yes they need to learn god gave them a chance
The answer is no.
If u want to be locked up, go Saudi they will keep u safe
In Kazakhstan, we re Muslims and we speak Russian, probably not the best combination for Homosexuals
I am a little sissy girl tg
we should be able to go where ever we want
True but sadly we are not
2:28 that's exactly why I don't want to go to Russia. I just think as a tourist the amount of money you are contributing to Russia's economy. That has a dictator that has implemented some very backwards laws. As a history student Russia as a country is utterly fascinating but I refuse to support Putin.
Cammie Halliday You think money of 1 or 1000 tourists can make Russia's economy strong? Or that money go directly to Putin? What if it's just support some gay girl comrade, who work in tourism.
Olga Starbuck
Exactly!
@Cammie "I wouldn't go to US because I don't want to support Trump"
Does that sound logical?
Putin doesn't need your support lmao
I dont think you are understanding what commie is saying, what cammie's saying that the money isnt going straight to putin more so supporting his dictatorship. when you spend money in south Korea or russia you are saying foreigners support this country and what it stands for and its laws.@wilfingmaniac
saying "I wouldn't go to US because I don't want to support Trump"
Does that sound logical? - of course it doesn't sound logical I'd call that person a dumb ass if they said that and also you because thats a terrible analogy and heres why.trump isnt enforcing or has enforced laws that are going against your principles or american society as a whole we in america are very progressive. I hope this comment corrected your ignorance and misunderstanding
Cammie Halliday Don’t go to Russia to support Putin. Go to Russia to support the LGBTQ+ people that are being oppressed by his regime. Trust me, I’ve gone to a few counties like that and I got a lot more than I left there.
What about people who already live in these countries?
Why not go to North Korea lol
Yes, if it is safe to do so and if it helps to change the world to be more inclusive and loving.
western countries are one of the best countries to be gay; though not perfect we do enjoy a society that accepts us 99% of the time. To say that we have a problem in our countries is misguided because it distracts from achieving improved rights in countries where the death penalty is still sanctioned by state and society. I agree with the other points you've brought up but do some critical thinking before you upload a video because you sound like someone who just wants to look out their window rather than the wider world
Fuck no!
I hear Brunei is a great honeymoon destination for gay couples.
Along with Saudi Arabia.