How Good Was Gary Payton REALLY?
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- čas přidán 15. 11. 2019
- An evaluation of the career and legacy of one of the great Point Guards of NBA history.
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#NBA #GaryPayton #SuperSonics - Sport
Where do you rank Gary Payton among the greatest Point Guards ever? Who else needs a video in my “How Good” series?
Did you do clyde drexler
James harden
Nice video
Haven't done Clyde yet. Good suggestion. He definitely is getting put on my to do list
@@jonnyarnett nice
When I heard the Glove only missed 27 games his entire career due to injury I wanna give this video a BILLION LIKES if only
did you know ac green did not miss a single game in his career...
at one point he continued playing on a broken foot.
what a warrior of the game!!
5 steals on a avarage
And he missed his most which was 14 games his last season in the league and basically 20 of those games was last 3 years.. Missed only 2 games first 10 years n the league
I don’t usually agree with Shaqs analyst opinions
But his constant arguing that GP was one of the greatest PGs of all time, I 100% agree
Amanda Rashad I always remembed him looking cold in minn drinking coffee
Greatest defensive PG all time imo.. And offensively very underrated. Greatest lob thrower ever.. Greatest trash talker ever. Complete is definitely the right word
John Stockton is the greatest DEF PG of all time!!
Best lob thrower is Jason Kidd, no question about it. Definitely had some of the quickest hands ever though, GP could get up in ya, best defensive PG of all time though.
no defensively + overall oscar robertson is was + will be the #1 best point guard
Walt Frazier, Alvin Robertson and Gary Payton come to mind.
@@averyce2 nah gp was John stockton was sneaky but the glove could lock you up and give you hell
He played 1,335 games
He only missed 27 games
DAMN
he led the sonics far in just 93 + 96
I hope Seattle can get their Sonics back.
Why? Seattle didnt value their team at all. Remember the kemp and baker trade? Kemp comes back and gets an audience of boo's
Kemp asked to be traded and there is always people who don't appreciate that, no matter how long a player has been there. But saying that SEA didn't value their team - what else makes you say that?
@@earlferguson3736 that's a stupid argument
@@Ivander85 After Gary left, the team really went to shit. And their roster changes didn't improve at all, either. Before they left, the organization was asking trying to get government funding to build a new stadium. I think people were pretty fed up with the whole thing at that point.
This is just my own personal speculation as a local and a huge fan of the early 90's team, mind you. I just remember feeling a lot of these things as they were happening.
and Key was renovated but then later told it wasn't adequate by Stern. Wasn't good enough for seating totals and current Arenas that are being played in. The Deal is the fan base was there and Key was known as one of the loudest places to play in the NBA! They only pushed the seating capacity because of Clay after the Sonic's were sold. Then they traded away key player's of the Team, lose interest for Sonic Fans and attendance number's , and to pad draft picks for OKC after Howard sold the Team. Grew up with the Sonic's. Remember watching the '78 and '79 finals against the Wizards. To say the Fan Base wasn't there is Bullshit!!! Was all about Stern and His buddy. Agree to some of what you shared also evbb.
What a player!!! He is way underrated!!!!
he is not underrated or overrated. GP is really good dumb
Didn't call him the Glove for no reason
Glove!
Gary Payton was a legend. Dudes dad found and developed Jason Kidd, let that sink in. Two of the top 10 point guards ever we're taught by the same man, Mr. Mean. RIP Mr. Mean a molder of men.
Gary Payton and Shawn Kemp was my childhood. I miss my Sonics! Bring back the Sonics!
Same here. Miss those days!
Play with them on NBA Jam and you can kick some ass.
Oh wait...
Laker fan but can't agree more
90's in Seattle !!! The best!
Why?!.. Where is the Sonics franchise now?.. Im always excited with the Bulls and Seattle Supersonics' Gary Payton, Detlef Schrempf and Hersey Hawkins(1998-2001) season.. Them were the two teams I loved. Gary was very good in defense as point guard...Sorry, never watch NBA after 2003..I am from Philippines
Gary was great, I watched him for years. One of the best points ever. I still miss the Sonic's so bad that I can't watch the NBA.
Im always excited with the Bulls and Seattle Supersonics' Gary Payton, Detlef Schrempf and Hersey Hawkins(1998-2001) season.. Them were the two teams I loved. Gary was very good in defense as point guard... I am from Philippines
They were a great team. It was hilarious when Howard Schultz ran for president. It took about two minutes for Seattle to shut him down no matter how good the coffee was.
I can't watch the NBA either, I've tried, but until they get a new team it'll be impossible.
The most complete PG in the history of the game. Best defensive pg of all time, he was a MONSTER in the post where hecould score against taller players, shoot 3s, penetrate. Amazing, it was a bless to be old enough to see him playing.
Stockton to me was more complete
PAYTON WAS THE MAN! Nothing was better than going to a game, sitting up close and watching that man go to work on the court! The guy was called The Glove for a reason! And yes, his trash talking WAS EPIC! 😂 -Also another great reason to be as close to courtside as possible when watching him play! I think that was actually one of my favorite things about him! He was absolutely devastating with both his moves, AND his mouth! 🤣 Miss watching you play, Gary! I will be a lifelong fan! ❤
no load management?
kawhi leonard has left the chat room.
I'm not a fan of load management since fans pay tickets to watch their idols play, but Kawhi wants to be in the best shape for the playoffs and maybe he's aware that he isn't a freak of nature like MJ/Kobe/LBJ. Kawhi deserves all the flak for his load management, but I guess it doesn't matter to him as long as he gets rings,
@@vanguardas9927 kawhi has a degenerative knee issue. If he plays back to backs consistently hes fucked. Its load management or his career is on the ropes. It's a real shame because if he was fully healthy i bet he could win an mvp or two.
@@samataryusuf3936 I honestly did not know that, I actually feel sorry for him now. Load management is indeed better than him ending up like DRose. I'm still a huge DRose fan til today.
@@vanguardas9927 same. I hate playing the what if so and so was healthy game. Loved prime rose as well.
@@samataryusuf3936 He loves the flashy plays to put on a show for the crowd, maybe that accelerated his injuries but was the main reason people loved him. I've been a Bulls fan since I was a kid (parents are 90s Bulls fans as well). So DRose getting injured was heartbreaking for me. I hope they can rebuild the franchise for the 2020-2030 era
THE GLOVE IS BETTER THAN WESTBROOK. FIGHT ME.
There is no argument to be made. Anyone who doesn't just look at statlines but total impact on the game easily sees that.
Nothing to fight, you're right.
Westbrook has better stats, but that's it, just numbers, GP had a great impact on the court. Damn, even if he went without scoring he could give you 10+ assists, 2+steals, and shutting down the other team's best perimeter player
@@fedem8229 I remember KG telling a story about how when he and Kobe got in the league and they had defensive questions training for their first all star game, he basically pulled them off to the side and ran a whole defensive clinic for those guys. Westbrook fills out statlines in a statline system, but only GP was a PG teaching elite-level defensive tactics to all-time great SGs and PFs
Payton would have won the second he stepped on the floor due to his trash talk
Shawn Kemp and Gary Payton were my favorite players in my teen years. Loved them
Imagine Payton on Harden. What a dream✨✨✨
He wouldn't be able to lock Harden down but absolutely would lower his numbers significantly
Still harden would scored more than 30, even if he has to attempt 50 shoots. Harden is trash
Which era?
Depends on the defensive rules - 90s rules or sissy rules? :-)
lokotroko1 “Harden is trash but would put up 30+ on the greatest defensive guard ever” Make up your mind you rabid braindead hater
Huge Gary Payton fan. Just loved the way he played the game. "Flat-out baller' is exactly right.
My all time farorite player.
got that glove love coming at ya 👌
Sonics4life 🏀
Payton To Kemp. The most exciting duo
The glove and the rain man. Kevin Calabria and Mychal Thompson. The best use of radio waves ever
Bro that picture at the end with GP taunting Steph gave me chills!!🔥🔥🔥
Dude, you gotta do Bernard King next.
gary payton overall didn't = bernard king
@@youtuber3328 two very different kinds of players. Both terrific in their own way
@@BillyBob-ec5ox it's nice 2 meet u if we didn't meet already + it's all about the rankings because overall greatness/quality is the #1 overall main deciding factor meaning that the passing from gary payton DIDN'T equal the scoring from bernard king
If I got to choose any PG, current or retired, I would choose the Glove. He has ideal size (6 4), can guard the 1-3, and score/distribute on the offensive end. In today's game I think he would still dominate the position and would not step down from anyone.
Come on the Glove is great, no disrespect but any sane person would pick Magic over Gary Payton
A 6-4 PT guard that could post up a 4 or 5. Never forget that when ranking or rating. At 6-9 Magic could post as well. Nothing against Magic, I'd rate him the best 2 way PT Guard and Payton at 3 or 4. No other guard including MJ had all 82 opponets on for dinner on defense. Yeah, he was that good and better then Magic as a shutdown
@@marcustang8784 if you need defense at the point Magic isn’t your guy though. For instance say you’re assembling a team to beat another all time team, is Magic going to meaningfully slow down a Curry, Stockton, Zeke? Not likely. Magic is the GOAT point guard but there are valid reasons to take others over him from a game planning and team construction standpoint
I don't know who that 1 person who gave the Glove a thumbs down but you must be a soccer fan! Top 5 all time, the only poin gaurd to win Defensive Player of the year considering what John Stockton was doing at the same time is insane. To have the best defensive numbers on MJ in the finals puts him in a world all on his own and a couple inches it's more like 5 inches. I've still got my Kemp and Payton jerseys and I loved Detlef Schrempf he was a great fit for the wide open style of Payton and Kemp! George Karl got so much out of that team with Hersey Hawkins, Nate McMillan and don't forget the Lefty from North Carolina Big Sam Perkins who was picked 4th in 1984 right after teammate Michael Jordan and right before Charles Barkley! Thank God Sam Bowie was picked 2nd and he received all of the wtf talk in that draft because had he not Sam Perkins would have been the big bust with a couple Hall of fame players taken after him in Barkley and Stockton. But Payton was in the last of the great players before the internet and social media class. Had he been in today's game he would be in the MVP discussion every year and these younger fans don't understand that back in the 80s and 90s you saw regional games and unless you got lucky on certain nights during the season your.best chance to see the teams from the other side of the country was the playoffs because then it was nationally televised! But those college players who didn't play at power house schools were unheard of on draft night! Take John Stockton in the 84 draft when he was picked people laughed at the Jazz because nobody outside of the Northwest area had heard of him or Gonzaga! Except for 1 kid in Western Kentucky named Joseph Harris because his father was a personal family friend of the Stockton family and I went to school with him and he was a Stockton will be the beat point gaurd the NBA has ever seen and we laughed at him at first but it was he who got the last laugh because he turned out to be right and I did land a Stockton autographed rookie card when he went to the Jazz Summer league and got to work at the games for the Jazz and I have a video tape of John Stockton signing my card saying he shouldn't be doing it because I said he wouldn't be any good but since I was a friend of Joseph he would sign it for me! Sorry about the side story but I love to tell that story and I don't get the chance to often, lol! Gary Payton top 5 all time point gaurd!
You should upload the video. I'd love to see it. Nice story
The Glove one of best defensive players ever and in my top 7 point guards ever
@BOMBAATA Wilt Chamberlain 2K 20K Except 6'3 Sidney Moncrief in 83 & 84 ?
Any noti I get from Jonny I click because he makes QUALITY content
He's So Underrated
Greatest defensive point guard ever
Great Video...I loved the Sonics growing up and still own some of the Gloves Shoes. The Sonics had some great teams in the 90s but they definitely choked in a few series unfortunately...When the Sonics left, I just couldn't follow another team and basically stopped watching the NBA
Same here, I haven't watched a full game since the Sonic's left. I watched the second half of the Mavericks winning their championship cause Cuban voted no on the Sonic's move. That's the most I've watched since they left.
Greatest Defensive PG of all time, one of the game's greaest trash talkers. Great video and you have great content
Eye opening. Per usual on this channel 👍👍
Haven't watched the video yet, but he is arguably the greatest defensive PG of all time!!
@Tod Wilkinson Pippen is the standard in your list as a one on one defender. Jordan is the best help defender as he saved his energy for offense. The thing with Payton was that in his prime he was near guaranteed to lockdown his assignment and he can handle different kind of players because he was the biggest guy in the position he played. Which meant he was strong enough to handle guards/wings like Jordan. Kidd had the size too but was never known as an absolute on ball defender like Payton. Steal numbers aren't everything in the body of work as a perimeter defender. They come with the territory as an elite defender but in the cases like Pippen and Payton, there is visual/numerical evidence that their lock down efforts decreased the scoring efficiency/looks for their assignment.
the best defensive + overall point guard literally always has + will be oscar robertson
@Red HawK13 robertson faced players who were definitely elite including hal greer tom heinsohn john havlicek bob cousy + so on
Arguably one of the best one on one perimeter defenders. He's big for a point guard, great length to try snag the ball away and you can't easily get him off since he's not a lightweight. His characteristic big mitts help too since he's always playing the ball handler up close. There have been shorter all around defenders who have come up in the league after Payton but none have put together an all around polished game like he has.
Im always excited with the Bulls and Seattle Supersonics' Gary Payton.. And Detlef Schremphf and Hersey Hawkins(1998-2001) season.. I love his moves
Loved the Sonics. Still bitter my team was stolen but GP is a top 50 all time player and top 5 point guard.
Kiel Maguire all Sonics should be bitter, the way our team was taken was compete BS. the NBA literally runs to save just every other team and their fanbases but Seattle and Vancouver’s. Helped Sac NO, Charlotte, even Phoenix helped keep or give them new ones(Charlotte), but Seattle naw we can’t do that 😡. Mane I miss the Sonics so much especially when Kevin Calabro is calling the game. Listened to the Sonics and T-Wolves from back in 04 at work today.
i somewhat like payton + he was elite but not A top 50 or B top 5 point
@@youtuber3328 if you dont value defense I guess you could argue that. Since it is half the game as the video says he is both of those.
@@kielmaguire5121 i see ur points but i defenitely value defense because i truly enjoy shotblocking + so on
@@hellunltd2071 i just saw this i see ur point + or points but ur 100 % wrong 4 multiple reason's
GP was amazing! He had skills, however he would straight up maul opposing players. No joke!
My favorite point guard hands down.
He always had to guard the best player on the floor too, while putting up those number??!! WOW!! He didn't miss games either.
This is one of those little facts that will get lost in history.
Its one thing to remember he was a defensive wiz. But people will forget he did it during the golden era, against legends.
Depends on what the coach wanted. I don't think he ever guarded Shaq. lol
That's the thing he was their leader offensively it's hard to be a shut down defender when you are the offense.
Theirs also something else I want to add about the glove. In that 1996 series Gary didn’t start guarding Jordan until game 3 of the series. In those first three games where Payton wasn’t guarding Jordan, Jordan averaged 31 points like a normal Michael Jordan finals series. But then for the next three games of the series Mj averaged 23.7 points while shooting really inefficiently. That really shows how good Gary was. Great video btw
Shamefully underrated.
I was hoping that a video about the Glove would come out. Thanks.
I loved Gary Payton! Him and Shawn Kemp were awesome and created long lasting memories.
So happy he won a ring with the 06 miami heat
Love this channel, thanks for all your great work.
As usual great work jonny.
Nice video jonny
Another great video for a truly forgotten great!
We need to give this man the credit he deserves. I'm starting to see GP make more appearances on sports talk these days, which is good.
GP is my favorite point guard of all time while Magic is my favorite player of all time. I miss hearing the revving engine and peel out sound when GP would finish a drive to the basket during SuperSonics home games!!!
I remember and respect Gary Payton. Always will.
Very quality videos. Much enjoyed. Can you please do one of Bernard King? Thank you
As this channel points out...The last year before Robinson the Spurs were 21-61. In his first year the Spurs had the greatest single season turnaround in NBA history. Their first year without him (due to injury) 20-62. If this doesn't say it all, I dont know what does.
The criticism of his 94-95 postseason performance is one of the greatest farces in NBA history. The Rockets beat the Spurs by spreading the floor with ridiculous 3 point shooting and by double and triple teaming Robinson. There was only so much he could do. Oh, and career head to head the Spurs and Robinson won 32 compared to 16 for Hakeem and the Rockets.
Robinson was the best big man Ive ever seen.
Thank you! This was meant for Robinsons page.
Loved payton and the sonics...he was such a fun player to watch
I didn't like when MJ kinda disrespected him in the last dance... acted like he didn't do shit but really he did play well
Jordan has said, Gary Payton guarded him better than just about every other player
Great content, bro. A big smile from Brasil.
Another great video.
I miss the Sonics so much. That era of basketball was so much better than today's product...
The Glove does not get enough love. I agree with pretty much everything this man said. Nice composite photograph at the end, by the way, of Gary Payton and Steph Curry. It's obvious that picture isn't real, as Gary Payton retired before Steph Curry ever entered the league. It would have been a nice matchup, however.
The 90s Sonics (like a number of other teams, to be fair) were really close to a couple of championships, in 93 and 96 at least. And they had that heartbreaker in 94 when they had the best record in the league but lost to the Nuggets in the first round of the playoffs. I think don't think that Payton and Kemp are remembered as well as they should be, compared to the other greats of the era.
why did they sweep the rockets in 96
I’ve been watching basketball for many years. For my money. Magic Johnson and Gary Payton are the best point guards I’ve ever seen play the game.
And don't forget that us Seattle Supersonic fans HATE the OKC team! Also he played in the NBA finals with a strained calf.
Great video!
I LOVE YOUR VIDS (subscribed) (rockets fan)
Always a hard worker
He'd be on my all time starting pg.
Imagine a line up of
Gary payton
Michael Jordan
Kevin durant
Garnett
Olajuwon
GP is that guy. Mans gave opposing teams nightmares
He was outstanding! One of the greatest PGs to ever play. Definitely one of the greatest defenders. He's THE GLOVE, BABY!!
Phenomenal analysis.
I Loved Bulls but felt in love with Payton/Kemp
the 96 sonics played the bulls better than the 92 blazers + 98 jazz
You should do Tim Hardaway if you havent already
Alonzo Mourning was a pretty solid center.
hardaway was overall good but not elite at all ever but i somewhat like him
@@ja8ames he was elite but only led his teams past round 2 once back in 97
@@youtuber3328 he was elite but had a very short prime
@@choosiheng5493 i see why u say that but i refuse 2 agree at all
GP was super dope. I'm from Seattle I saw it and it was the truth. You was gonna get them hands and hear his mouth. He backed up every word. The Glove! Now his son the Golden Glove is giving every opponent them hands, keeping defender's punch drunk.
I was and am a Seattle fan, Gary is my favorite number 1 of all time with Magic and Stockton tied for number 2. At point guard (number 1) for the people that don't know positions.
I got GP 6th at pg behind Magic, Zeke, Oscar, Stockton, and Steph.
nice list. respect.
the truth is about point guards #1 is was + will be oscar robertson #2 magic johnson #3 jerry west #4 pete maravich #5 bob cousy + #6 john havlicek
He’s better than isiah. Magic and Stockton id put ahead of him.. Oscar.. no.. he played when players only dribbled with one hand.. no way he’s in this conversation.
@@youtuber3328 Jerry West was a Shooting Guard.
I would put Gary Payton ahead of Stephen Curry. GP is 5th all-time.
I remember back when the debate was always whos the better PG GP or John Stockton. Most people took Stockton but I always felt GP was the better player and could have shown it more had Shawn Kemp not left Seattle when he did. They got Vin Baker for him who was a star sure but he ended up not being any where near as good as Kemp was in Seattle. I'm also from Seattle so I am slightly biased.
Yeah Bro, vin Baker was good but not a patch on prime kemp. The rainman n glove were a feirce combo.
Hated loosing kemp but then he went downhill n got fat. Remember fat kemp 😂
Oh yeah gp is my all time favourite player
#Sonics4life
@@thedeadlynose5127 Fat Kemp in Orlando was the worst
His peak was way higher than Stockton but if you just look at career totals, people pick Stockton, lol
@Tod Wilkinson you had to see the games and not just look at stats. Westbrook has averaged a triple double 3 seasons in a row but has never been better than curry.
I'm from the Seattle area. I just wanted to say even though the Sonics left long ago, the early 90's team is fondly remembered for the amazing legacy they left behind. In fact, I'd say its the only Sonics we really choose to remember, lol.
I can't say this is for sure why the team left, but by the time they did WA was pretty fed up with the organization. There was a long string of terrible team recruitment's, and the magic we all grew up on faded away. Then one day, after Seattle had finished two new stadiums, they decided they wanted their own 100 million dollar home. I think at that point people were fed up, and were not sorry to see them go.
Despite that, I will always remember Gary Payton, Sean Kemp, and Detlef Schrempf tearing up the courts of my childhood. :D
I always always played Kemp and Payton on NBA Jam.
Boom-Shaka-Laka!!!
His defense alone was legendary.
please read 1 + or more of my posts
I remember someone at my school (in the UK) turning up with his sneakers once, they looked like an artifact from the future! I stopped following basketball closely after about 99 so i didn't realise he'd stayed at such a high level for so long after that.
I remember that year 95-96 SuperSonics. I think no Team could beat the Bulls that year they where unstoppable!
I was long time Sonics Fan.
the 96 sonics played the bulls better than the 92 blazers + 98 jazz
That was my favorite team during that era because of Gary & Kemp 💯🔥
4:40 is a cool but sad picture at the same time. You see Gary stealing the ball from Stoudemire and on the bench behind them is Detlef Schrempf and Shawn Kemp wearing Blazer Uniforms.
Very good...That is why he is the only DPOY PG to ever win the award...
Keep that intro brother. Classic.
One of the greatest play makers. His defense was second to none.
This holds true for almost all the videos done, that the players we honor as best in the league all played stellar offense AND recognized on the defensive end with greatness. If you aren't complete, you aren't anything. (Looking at you modern era.)They also all negate any "water down argument" on the greatest era ever is in that all these greats usually have the line in them, "at the wrong time due to the existence of the Bulls and MJ."
I watched Gary since his Skyline high-school days.
The man could shoot, finish at the rim, hit the three, nail clutch free throws, draw the foul, defend, trash talk, lob the ball and pass well, and even cross people up.... what more do you want from a point guard? Stockton, magic, Isaiah all get recognition but I honestly think that gp is the most complete player of all of them (though maybe not the best or most successful)
Wemby is better
An All-Times great player and a distant relative of mine too, for real no lie.
Seattle still loves GP! We miss the Sonics!
I grew up in Seattle watching GP almost every night. He is one of the greatest competitors in NBA history. I rank him top 5 pg’s of all time because he’s locking up whoever and when I say lock up I mean literally nothing. Steph, Kylie anybody like that would’ve had rough nights against GP.
Heart big heart love this dude
Pure beast
He has to be in the discussion as the GOAT at Point Guard with Magic Johnson.
ELITE!
Numbers wise and longevity at a high level stockton just edges him by numbers.
Gary payton is underrated
In my opinion he is the most creative and high IQ defender ever
Definitely in my top 3 favorite PG’s of all time...!
I grew up and started watching basketball during Payton era. I have only seen old game footage of Walt but he has got to be considered one of the great defensive point guards as well as Mookie Blaylock, Pat Beverly, Mo Cheeks and Lindsey Hunter. Best maybe easily not sure.
1 of my top 5 favorite players all-time. IMO definitely Top 10 if not Top 5 pg all-time
Mixed emotions. Definitely loved watching The Glove play, but seeing Sonics on a green uniform still hurts badly.
in life necessary things have to be done no matter how bad they emotionally hurt others + i'm speaking in general