Black powder revolver for personal defense? Testing the .44 cal cap and ball revolver!
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- If you've ever wondered WHAT IF, than watch this! We put the .44 cal 1860 Army replica through its paces in accuracy and practical penetration against possible period items to see if it would penetrate. The results honestly shocked me! This was a super fun video to put together and actually answered some questions for me as well. Here are some links to other helpful videos we have done on this revolver. How to disassemble • How to disassemble the... A few more details on the revolver (one of our older videos ) • The ORIGINAL Six-gun: ... Another disassembly video on this that we did when we started the channel. • Disassembly of the 186...
You need to load more powder. Try 30 to 35 grains.
I'm running 35 grains standard
I did a comparison between 45acp 230gr. fmj and a 44, 220gr kerr bullet into a stack of magazines, the penetration was about the same but the lead 44 was really mangled up. I dont have a video but it was an interesting test.
Ok here is the thing, that gun of yours should hold a full 40 grain charge, of 3fg black powder with a round ball which is most likely how most people like my great great grandfather would have shot a round ball. Your brand of black powder is also going to matter, as the denser it is after being compressed during manufacturing will make a difference. As Goex does not make their powder the same way Swiss does. With a conical ball you should be able to load 30 grains 3fg black powder. That 24grain charge is more what you would shoot with Pyrodex, or Triple 7 to prevent over charging your gun. I shot 30grains by volume of Pyrodex with a round ball and 35 grains 3fg black powder with a round ball. Out of my 1860 Army .44 but am switching over to conical balls, now that I have the molds to do so. But your round balls while moving faster, have less mass thus less knock down force. Try 30grains with a conical bullet you will be pleasantly surprised! And I’ve been shooting black powder since the Reagan administration.
There is a test on CZcams where the Kaido bullet penetrated 11 one gallon water jugs.
Wow!
@The Maineiacguy
Yes, indeed, the noted Black Powder authority Mike Beliveau (Dualist 1954) on CZcams
Did a test video: Ruger Old Army Powder Projectile Test part 6
Using my 44/45 caliber 255+ grain Universal Bullets penetrated 11 gallon water jugs with Triple Seven 3F powder.
Video linked video here:
czcams.com/video/LP_dwo2nThA/video.html&feature=share
I prefer the remington 1858 revolver. The solid top strap has a better sight picture. To change the cylinder is far faster than on the colt
You can actually put 35 grains of powder in these guns ! If you really want to do this test right put 35 grains of powder in each chamber and do the exact same test again.
Hey thanks for the video and God Bless You And Family Amen
I'll be sure to bump that powder up a bit thank you so much
@TheMaineiacguy And thanks again for the video because now I have an idea how powerful 25 grains of gunpowder can do !
Thanks again and God Bless You And Family
Yeah 35 grains... and maybe another 5 of modern powder for good measure.
That will make your bull run.
@@damiendarko9411 Sounds like you are creating a bomb. You use modern powder in these guns you will experience catastrophic failure. I'm sure CZcams Audience would love to watch that 😆
For self defense I feel like their will be an issue with pass through with that many grains but it is a lead bullet so maybe not
I shoot 35 grains, big difference in your results
I know I use between 29-30 grain fffg in my 44 and even with a round ball it has plenty of power for self-defense or hunting
24 grains is not enough
You are a little light on your loading. I go with 30gns for ball and conical. That small difference makes an huge difference downrangs.
Thanks! I'll definitely have to give it a try.
3o
Grain s of 3 f powder makes a killig load, 35 grains even better. Will be producing 900 + feet per sec. Stand in front of that😂
Back in the day they loaded hot, a compressed charge that had the ball seated flush with the cylinder face.
If it needed shot, it needed shot dead or incapacitated.
You should try the test again but load your revolver with 30gr of Triple 7 3fg and a Kaido VKV Universal 240gr flat nose conical. The Kaido bullets have been designed for hunting and have been field proven in several hunts where they successfully harvested several Florida wild boars that ranged from 125lbs to 400lbs. The impacts were dramatic and the wound channels were deep and wide. They performed just as well as our modern revolvers and pistols that were used for comparison. The Kaido bullets loaded with Triple 7 3fg provide you with the hardest hitting and deepest penetrating combination with penetration that is measured in feet and not inches suitable for big game handgun hunting for anything you would hunt with a handgun in the continental United States
Absolutely yes. A properly charged .44 is a good thing to have nearby.
I used to have an 1847 Colt Walker. That sucker was a literal hand cannon, firing 55 grains of 3F powder per shot. Weighed 4-1/2 pounds empty and was huge by comparison to a colt 1860 Army. The drawbacks though kept me from using it as a personal defense weapon due to it's weight and cumbersome size. But man it was ultra powerful, when shot.
They didn't use round ball. They used conical bullets that would have had a much bigger penetration using round ball was not as common as you'd might think. I'm sure they were used but comical bullets are devastating
Interesting. I'll have to get my hands on some of those and try them out. Sounds like a future video comparing round balls to conical for accuracy and on various targets.
@@TheMaineiacguyI’ll watch it. 😂
24 grains is a plinking load.
How many grains for a self defense load 😂
@@smokeypeteproductions 35
@@hazcat640 and for pyrodex? If im running .44 round ball
@@smokeypeteproductions Pyrodex you could use the same it would be safe but to keep it in the same area of speed just reduce by about 10%. Also remember if you have space under the projectile either use a wad or some filler (grits or corn starch or cream of wheat work well) because black powder (and substitutes) work better when compressed. You will also get more consistent ignition and velocity.
@@smokeypeteproductions Also as you're using round ball which is much lighter (147 grains) you could drop the powder to 30 grains and still have a pretty good load. I use 225 and 255 grain RNFP bullets.
Also with round ball you might want to put a card over the powder then a lubricated wad then the bullet (ball) as you won't have lube rings on the ball to fill with lube.
I think standard was 26 grains? and most people load 30? not sure it would have made much difference tho. soldiers actually reported that the .36 and the .44 with round balls were good stoppers.
why 24 grains? it is good for precision but not for power. You have to charge 30/35 grains with conical 250 grains and then you will see some results. I'm sorry but your test is wrong
I use the balls, not conical, but your are right about the powder charge regardless of the ammo shape, I fill the chambers so the ball barely fits just enough to seat, like 37ish grains in a Remington style.
35 grains and your cantin will have a hole in it I bet
Once I tried different bullets in the remington new army replica, the 240 grain lead bullet penetrate 5-6 inches into dry pine with maximum charge.
Lack of power is not a problem, limitations come from other things.
Back during the day's of cap and ball they used conical bullets in them with about 25 grains of 3f. And with round ball they would have loaded more powder. I have done a lot of testing with both and with more powder under a round ball the can really suprise you
Been shooting .44ca percussion revolvers ('58 Rem/ '60 Army...and the '51 "Navy" in same caliber) for 40+ years. 24g of powder is a pretty light charge. I've always loaded 35g in mine. That charge has done a number on several coyotes over the years. Depending on the firearm (with some slight mods), they're pretty accurate. Bump that charge up to 35g. It will penetrate a flask. I've loaded 38g in a '58 New Model Army, and nearly penetrated a full size telephone book (at 15ft). These firearms laid to rest more souls, and fed more than any of our modern day firearms. The .44 revolver was a stopper. 🙂👍
Same, I run 30+ and it makes a huge difference, 40 grains is not worth it however in comparison to 35
@@bravofoxtrotllc6817 Agree. I'll run 40g in the '66 and '92 rifles. 35g in a 5 1/2" SAA is adequate for anything I may have to use it on. I do max in the '72 Colts I have.
Low power loads, put more powder in it. Was designed hold a full cylinders full
Books are tough, I doubt a point blank from my 45acp would get through that. I use to make phonebook targets back when we had phone books and they stopped a variety of rounds.
Double your powder
What load did you have? It’s a steel frame so I’d be loading 30 grain min of goex fffg with .454 balls. No wads. Just lamb tallow and wax
I'm using 30g fff in my brass frame no wad or lube it shoots way high its probably flexing the frame but id doubt that flask would've stopped a load like that
I think wound infection was what killed em in those days. With no antibiotics available infections would have meant death in most cases. Good enjoyable video.
That makes good sense. Thanks!
24 grains for 36 cal and 30 for a 44. cal.
The best test is to use expired packaged ribbs. Awesome stuff. Also, my fav CZcamsr Grandthumb did a video of blackpowder guns on the dummy torso's and it was EPIC AS HELL. I've watched their one video like a hundred times already. The wound channels are something out of a nightmare.
I put 30 grains in mine so it may have gone through some of those items! I'll have to try it myself!
Thanks for the video
I use at least 30 grains. the old colt instructions were to fill the chamber and press the ball down on top.
Have an 1847 replica Walker I use 45gr powder. It's rated up to 60gr but I'll stick with 45-50.
Love these especially with conversion cylinders. A variant of ghost guns. Conversion cylinders for certain models are hard to find and very popular for that reason. I'm still waiting on a 1/250 batch being made by taylor&co for 45 colt drop in cylinder for the 1860 army.
I make it a habit to load 35 grains of fffg, but then, I have a Remington...
Conical bullets penetration is better then round ball tho round ball off loads it's energy due to flattening of the round ball on impact
Bro, you're supposed to fill the chamber with enough BP so that the ball barely fits all the way in. The old revolver instructions back in the day literally said that. Supposing your suing real BP this is how you're supposed to do it.
20 grains isn’t the correct amount it’s definitely sounds underpowered from its normal 30 grains you’d have a huge change in knock down power
Got the .44 1851 7 3/8 barrel on order
Great video thank you
With a low powered early 20th century revolver the metal spectacles case that Teddy Roosevelt had in his shirt pocket significantly slowed his attempted assassin’s bullet in 1912 while he was giving a speech during his presidential campaign. It was a conical bullet that was putting out a similar amount of energy as you’re getting with 24 grains of black powder from the 1860 army but the bullet penetrates better than round balls do even though it didn’t penetrate TR’s chest cavity and his spectacles case wasn’t as thick as the flask. My Winchester super x .45 LC 250 grain cowboy loads that I shoot from my Uberti 1858 new model army revolver using my Howell cylinder definitely would penetrate through the flask though
That is a wicked cool bit of history my friend! Thank you for sharing. Also, helps to validate my results a little. I also found that the penetration from my 50 cal trapper single shot pistol with a 32 grain throw of powder had a lot more penetrating power and delivered kinetics than this 1860 did. That's one reason that the results on this video surprised me so much. But dang, the accuracy on the 6 shooter is definitely good. Thanks again for sharing and have an awesome day.
In the 1850s, Samuel Colt and Hazzard Powder Company invented a super powerful Black gunpowder designed specifically for cap&ball percussion revolvers.
That specific Black gunpowder was called Fine Pistol Revolver Sporting powder.
Samuel Colt also invented the Combustible Paper Cartridges that were loaded with a pointed conical Bullet, which were packed in wood/ sealed cardboard boxes of six rounds along with 6 percussion caps.
That Fine Pistol & Revolver Sporting Powder was manufactured up until the 1880s. It is more powerful than Goex, Stutzen Black Powder of today.
Hodgdon's Triple Seven 3F powder mimics is like the old Fine Pistol Revolver Sporting powder in power factors.
If you want to get close to the original power factors of a Colt 1860 Army revolver, use Triple Seven 3F powder and a 216 grain 459 of an inch conical bullet.
If you want the ultimate power factors like for Hunting or wilderness defense against Bears or Wild Boars, then try my invention of Kaido Ojamaa-VKJV RFN Universal Bullets with Triple Seven 3F powder.
I've taken hybrid Wild Boars with them in a Pietta 1860 Army percussion cap&ball revolver.
I offer custom-made six cavity molds to make cast your own Universal Bullets in 44/45 caliver 220/240/255 grains as well aa a 36 caliber 145 grain version. I also offer free consultation for my customers.
You can also purchase my 44/45 caliber 220 grain and 36 caliber 145 grain Kaido Ojamaa Hunting Bullets already cast of pure soft lead or the harder Wheel Weight Lead alloy on etsy.com
www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.etsy.com/listing/652061470/kaido-456-220-gr-hunting-pure-lead&ved=2ahUKEwiQju7w25H_AhXjKFkFHbOUDbsQFnoECBEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0hd0swtZZP5BrbyJ-fcCMk
Wow, thank you for sharing and thanks for the great info my friend! Definitely sounds like a fella who knows what he's talking about!
@@TheMaineiacguy Yes, He knows what he is talking about. I have several of his bullet molds and they are effective, accurate too. Good evening Valdo.
I've made .410 shells with 30 grains of Blackhorn 209 pushing a .357 wad cutter over a modern wad. They went through a 2x4 and several small saps behind it. It's fun to try in a smoothbore.
the Remington New model army 1858 is my favorite. Solid frame and much better sights. And stronger and more precise. You are shooting light target loads. You can also shoot with pointy bullets.
It would be interesting to see a conical or even 35 grains of powder would do to the flask and book.
It's funny because not too long ago we did a video with similar testing with a 50 caliber single-shot muzzle-loading pistol and I charged that with 30 grains of powder. Penetration was actually kind of astounding at least I was pretty surprised. It pretty much mowed through whatever we put in front of it. I guess just the extra mass of the 50 caliber ball and just a few more grains of powder makes all the difference. I know that they made the Texas Rangers model and the Dragoon model of handgun but actually took a double Magnum powder charge and that pistol was up built quite a bit from the standard models I guess now I understand why. Here's a link to that video on the 50 cal in case you're interested in seeing the comparison. czcams.com/video/FJqimY75qWo/video.html
@The Maineiacguy
In the near future a Spanish Black powder Arms manufacturer Avancargas Arsa, will be making firing replicas of the English Adams Beaumont Dragoon percussion revolver in 50 caliber, then a replica of the Austrian Josef Schneigg model 1860 percussion revolvers in the whopping 54 caliber lastly possibly a 57 caliber Adams Beumont percussion revolver.
I plan to design a Flat Nose Bullet for these Big Bore cap&ball percussion revolvers for Hunting and Wilderness Defense purposes .
@@MrHrKaidoOjamaaVKJV that sounds so cool!
@The Maineiacguy
Yes, I'm glad to see the Spaniards step up to the plate!
For many years, I've been trying to get the Italian replica firearms manufacturers to make replicas of the Big Bore English style cap&ball percussion revolvers to no avail.
One German Master Gunsmith made such a 57+ caliber Adams Beumont percussion revolver in November 2004, and it was in the German shooting publication Viser.
It shoots a whopping 325 grain lead ball and 76 grains of Black Powder!
Send me a message, and I can send you the PDF article.
30 Grains Triple 7 get 1200fps and way more power
If you get shot with one, you won't care what kind of powder the fella who shot ya was using.
I am finding yesterday's lead far superior to today's copper jacketed ammo, if i could find soft lead loaded to today's specs...GOOD GOLLY MS.MOLLY
Some civil war era canteens were called bullseye canteens for the circular design in them.
35 grains and your cooking with gas... right now what your doing is real simple... imagine you got a old school pump bb gun that you can pump up 12 times... your only pumping it to 5 or 6 and testing how powerful it is... you got to give it all 12 pumps tho...
Try a colt walker, with a 40 or 50 grain charge
Use only Triple 7, no smoke
I have several CB revolvers. I would not rely on them because they fill the air with smoke and there is the cap jam problem. I don't want evil to have any kind of edge over me and my family. On another note, the 1860 Colt Army is called a .44 but in actuality it is a true .45 If it were given designated caliber today it would be called a .45 just like the first cartridge Colt .45's .
Even a 31cal c&b derringer is better then a rock are people that are limited to Black Powder by location or local laws.
You lost me at shooting the Missal…disposing of an old missal should be done with respect not used as target practice, poor form.
That was definitely not my intent and I apologize if this offended you in anyway I myself am a church-going man. I found this at the dump in the landfill where I find a lot of things that I kind of bring back from the garbage so to say to kind of give second life too and do testing on. This particular book actually fit perfect for an old myth of a pastor who got shot and his Bible stopped the ball much like the flask that I also found at the dump test the same meth only with a flask. I was looking for a book with a fabric bound leather cover and really tight Pages much like a Bible and I was quite excited when I found that at the dump odd that someone would just throw it in the trash but one man's trash is another man's treasure. I am a Protestant and in being so don't know a whole lot about the Catholic faith but this just seemed to fit the bill perfectly to test out that particular myth. Again have a wonderful day and thank you for watching the video also please again accept my apology if that part of the video was offensive to you at all. God bless.
Kind of a silly premise.... We know for a fact people defended themselves with these firearms... Components are much better now and bettor quality guns... Even small caliber guns were feared back in the day because Of the probability of infection And eventual death...👍👍
Why are your shots so weak? My BP 1858 hits hard as a 357
Think I'll have to bump up my powder a bit.
What's your load on the 1858?
@mikef7698 if I was to guess it's 40 grains of triple 7 under a 220gr jonston and dow conical, Or you can make your own powder and make it hot, 40 grains of that under a 220gr J&D conical gets you the same FPE as a 357 mag.
I carry a .22 but I sleep on a .44.
🤣🤣 sounds like me
so the safest guy in town in the old west , was a church going drunk
@@seymourwrasse3321 🤣🤣🤣
Any of the split 2-piece frame guns that have the wedge to hold them together like the Colts are absolute trash! They get sloppy loose after a few shots due to this type of weak design style. The Remington 1858 frame design is much more durable and much stronger! I will NEVER own a split frame gun like the Colt's! Been there, done that!!
Did you have a brass frame? Iv shot hundreds of 30g shots through my steel frame 1851 and there's no slop at all, wedge and barrel are solid. Uberti and pietta aren't very good with quality control so maybe you got a bad one
I have NEVER owned a brass frame gun. That wedge that holds the gun together is the weak link in the whole assembly ! The brass frame guns are even much worse!!!!!
Grain count too low. Try 30 grain.
I’d love to see this vs a watermelon
I know you're going to catch some flack about shooting that Bible! also you didn't wear your safety glasses.😅
Not sure if it’s actually true cause you can’t always trust the net but from what I found the 1860 carried a powder charge around 50 grains so your experiment is totally inaccurate that being the case
Are you sure you're not talking about the colt walker? Or the dragoon? The 1860 is probably 40 grains max, if that.The 1860 army standard load was between 30 and 35 grains under a conical. It was this load that the 45 colt (modern day long colt) was trying to replicate.
Shooting a bible ? Seriously ?
I smoked bible paper in prison and regret it
@@devaughnfalls5928 did the same... But a mormon one, so I'm sorry my lungs can't take all
It's not a bible.
@@jeffnelson1672What is it then? Looks like a Bible to me
@@eancola6111 It's a Missal. It says "The Saint Andrew Daily Missal" on the cover. He says he found it in a dump.
ATTEMPTING TO HELP THIS GUY IS NOT ADVISED . THERE IS SOMETHING NOT QUITE RIGHT WITH HIM .
Worked for the Clintons.
Cram more powder in there...U can get 148 grain ball running close to 975-1000 ft per second.More than enough.
The Civil War-era US wasn't as religious as you might think. That's off the subject, to be sure.
Oh, I didn't realise the Adolf Hitler haircut was coming back in style!
1:57 it's pronounced " missile" ... It contains all of the scripture readings for each day of the year along with hymns to be sung during the Mass 🙏🌙
The Bible stopped all that hate and didn't even fall off. Lesson learned, during the 1800s wearing a thousand pages of paper all over made you bullet proof. 😆😆😆😆😉👍
I would have found something else rather than a Bible, just out of respect.
good video but come on dude not cool shooting a bible
@stuart4341 thanks. And no worries, it wasn't a Bible, just very like one. And I saw it laying on top at the dump when I made a trash run where someone threw it in the garbage. I figure this way, at least it is being displayed with fond memories on a shelf rather than rotting in a dump since it is an older book. I would never shoot an actual Bible, my friend, rest easy on that one. I'm an American, and feel very strongly that you never disrespect a Bible or an American flag. God, Family, Country, this we'll defend. 🤙
imagine being mad at shooting at a mass produced book of words. I can see why you would be offended, but srsly tho it's just a book
No, it is not useful for personal defense unless the assailant is in a wheel chair. I would jsut buy the Umberti chamber, swap it out, center it with a shell, because cap and ball beyond 40ft is hit or miss...and takes time to cock and sight. Now that is not to say there are people who are so used to it and familiar, that THEY couldn;t use it as personal defense. But any "I bought a gun online that looks cool!" guy couldn;t hti the side of a barn, much less the wheel chair kid with his hockey stick, trying to assault you for your Guns'n'Roses replica concert jacket ! OMG RUN !!!! UP HILL NOT DOWN,HE ROLLS !!!
😆
THE PROBLEM WITH BLACK POWDER GUNS IS THEY WILL NOT FIRE AFTER BEING STORED LOADED 4 A WEEK, IT'S THE PRIMER SYSTEM THAT CAUSES THIS, PUT ON A FRESH PRIMER & IT FIRES. I 'M TRYING 209 PRIMERS NOW, I'M LEAVING LOADED 4 A MONTH, THEN I WILL KNOW, 209 PRIMERS R SEALED, I HOPE THEY WORK ?????
I leave my primers on my 36 cal cap and ball revolver for months at a time and they still fire just fine.
I leave mine loaded and never have a problem. rub beeswax on the nipple before you cap it.
yea i think its more about keeping the powder dry than the primer@@chrisbinns6666
WHY ARE WE YELLING?
I've never had a problem with that. I've left mine loaded and capped for 3 years and fired fine.