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USS The Sullivans: The Sinking, The Recovery, and The Future of the Museum Ship
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2023
- In this episode, we're with Shane Stephenson from the Buffalo Naval Park talking about the ships there, in particular the sinking of USS The Sullivans in 2022.
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Three of my father's older brothers served together on the escort carrier USS _Block Island_ (CVE-21) ... after the loss of the five Sullivan brothers in the November 1942 sinking of the light cruiser USS _Juneau,_ a Senior Chief on _Block Island_ asked my uncles if they were related to each other. "No, never met those fellows before coming to this ship," they all replied; "What a coincidence we all have the last name Cannon!" They never learned if the Chief believed them or if he decided they should be allowed to serve together if they wanted to. When in May 1944 _Block Island_ was torpedoed and sunk by U-549 off the Canary Islands, her escorting destroyers rescued all but six of her crew of 957 - including all three of my uncles, who survived without injury. I have often wondered how many other sets of brothers "worked" the Navy system to continue serving together despite the ban...
My father himself, born in 1930 and too young for World War II, served on USS _New Jersey_ off Korea between 1950 and 1952.
Some great family hstory, thanks!
Wait, they were half of the six not rescued?
@@counterfit5No, they were among the survivors. It took me a bit to understand as well lol
Sorry I did not write that clearly, all my uncles were rescued! I met them all in the late 1960's at a family reunion, but sadly I did not know then about their World War II service and never had a chance to ask them about it...
fabulous history to hear about! bless you and your family!
One more thing to note that was noted in the first crossover video between Battleship New Jersey and the Buffalo Naval Park: The Sullivans' power plant was actually built in Buffalo. Her crew may be her soul, but her heart is home.
I was there on 30APR this year. The Sullivans is getting there. Still a ways to go to get her back in top shape, but Shane and his crew are busting their butts to get it done.
Shane, I'm sorry I missed meeting you in person, but I was honored to be able to speak with you by phone.
Love it when museum crews come together to share history and know-how
That's one of the principles of HNSA.
I can't wait to see the videos Ryan will do when USS New Jersey moves across the river to the Philly Naval Shipyard for drydocking. Videos of the hull before and after servicing will be cool to see.
@guyintenn If you watch some of the previous videos Ryan has stated numerous times that plans are being put into place to finally put USS New Jersey into dry dock. I'd assume they're saving up some sort of funding for this to happen?
He said in this video they're somewhere short of about a million bucks. I *think* he said $700-800k
It's video documentation like that that makes the docking of Battleship Texas so fascinating to me.
It was gut wrenching seeing what had happened to The Sullivan's that cold morning. What they've had to go through to even access and bring the ship back to a tourable state has been an heroic effort. Kudos to the people at the park and all their hard work.
What they went through was all very preventable.
An ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure.
I guess they need to check the morning lines for slack every 4 hours
What did they use for dewatering? Old jp5 converted p250 pumps or commercial pumps?
Spent 21 years in Repair division so DC was part of my job everyday while stationed on a ship.
I'm glad to see the optimism about saving this ship. She is a powerful symbol of the sacrifices made in WW2. To lose a son, brother or father was bad enough, but to lose five sons in one event is something I just can't comprehend. It would be nice if one of the billionaires in the States could help out - they could fund the entire project out of petty cash. Then again, they'd probably want the ship re-named after them.
Essentially wiping out an entire family line in one go. The senseless loss on both sides from both world wars is staggering when you think about it.
I live in Buffalo NY, I’ve been on these ships several times in my life, and I’ve never learned as much about these ships as I have from your series of videos at the Buffalo Naval Park, thank you and your channel for producing and posting them!
Thank you to all at the Buffalo Naval park for their hard work.
Thank you for your efforts in restoring and maintaining these historical craft.
"Sleeve Oil". That's the extra fuel oil the Chief Engineer DOES NOT put on his noon report to the Captain. The Chief Engineer likes to keep extra fuel oil in case. So maybe when they pumped the bunkers "dry", what was left is "sleeve oil" (Ace up the sleeve) just in case!
Sleeve oil has nothing to do with it. The amount of fuel in a tank is a critical part of ship stability data and is not casually misrepresented for the chief's comfort. Tank soundings are logged and the contents are what is actually in the tanks. The fact that there was a considerable amount of fuel remaining onboard was probably for stability. When a tank is pumped "dry" it is "stripped" at a low rate until the pump can no longer maintain suction. Over time the fuel remaining on the tank walls and other structure will drain down by gravity. If the fuel was required to be left for stability it was done with the assumption that the tank manholes would not be left open or loosely placed as shown in several videos instead of being secured. This is another example of serious neglect and very poor ship husbandry.
@@oldtugs Even a tank pumped to loss of suction will have an inch or two residual plus any list or fore-aft angle would uncover the suction foot prematurely.
Thank you Libby & Ryan for publishing this interesting & informative summary of what happened to the USS The Sullivans. Great illustration of the risks facing any artefact that floats (or is stored on an artefact that floats).
I was really expecting this to be a depressing video, but it turned out quite energetic and hopeful. Yeah, museum ships get old and deteriorate, but we can still fight to keep them alive, to reverse damage, to preserve and catalog the history.
Yes, the increaing entropy and the heat death of the universe will come for us all, but that doesnt mean we cant put up a fight, and create meaning now, while we are still here.
Speaking of heat death why don’t we fire up the Sullivans boilers and blast our way into Canada with 5 inch salvos and force the Canucks to fix the hull.
Who amongst us knew that Huey Lewis' younger brother was the Buffalo Naval museum's curator? I certainly didn't! 😂
No wonder it sank. That band was effing awful.
@@bebo4374Im sorry, but that is so far from correct. You may not like that type of music, but saying that band was awful is innacurate.
@@GregoryVeizadesIt's hip to be square and some people Want A New Drug !😊
To quote the late Johnny Carson, “I did not know that.”
@@bebo4374ya like Huey Lewis and the news?
I have lived in the Waterloo Iowa area my entire life. I'm sure that I'm not the only one but behalf of everyone from Waterloo Iowa, thank you Shane and crew for working to save the USS The Sullivans. And thank you Ryan and the New Jersey team for preserving and sharing one of the few things that the state of Iowa is actually known for, the Iowa class Battleship.
I was stationed on the USS Proteus (AS-19) and when we decommissioned her in 1992 several areas of her hull were the thickness of a dime! Seawater and electrolysis take a toll on steel and our divers were kept busy with patching. Good luck!
And yet they turned it into a berthing barge at Puget Sound Naval Shipyard from 1994-97. I was a Naval Reservist at FISC and we inventoried and restocked all the parts taken from Proteus' stores instead of sending it all to DRMO.
It's amazing that these ships have stayed afloat for so long without docking and the costs are astronomical . As a well loved historical ship a museum might get cheaper rates but it's still a major obstacle . I hope it's proved possible to achieve and secure their future .
It was my privilege 50-some years ago to be allowed to visit the Essex class CV Bunker Hill when she was brought out of mothballs and towed to NAS North Island in San Diego, to be a test lab for some of the electronics planned for installation on the then-new CVN Nimitz. The Bunker Hill was literally a floating time vault, being in almost exactly the same condition she was in when put on reserve status at the end of WW2. It was heartbreaking to know that Bunker Hill, that historic warrior whose crew sacrificed so much to save her after a Kamikaze strike nearly sank her, was scrapped soon after being towed from San Diego. Bunker Hill should have become a national museum but at the time, with all the ill feelings still present over the still-raging war in Viet Nam, the public had no interest in saving an old warship. I'm so glad to see that this fate was not shared by other historic vessels like The Sullivans and of course New Jersey. My hat's off to the professionals and volunteers that keep these ships in good condition, preserving them for future generations to enjoy, experience and ponder.
It would have been great to have a museum carrier that is still in it's WW2 configuration with a straight flight deck
Same with Franklin. Unfortunately, due to their like-new condition after being completely restored, they were constantly being witheld from being used. They were always saving them for something better. Then something better never came and they were just too old to be used for anything, regardless of condition.
@@HoldenOversoul imo the "like-new condition" would be a reason to keep her longer and upgrade her and retire another, older ship
I posted the following on the Buffalo Naval and Servicemen's parks video & felt that sharing it here was appropriate
Ryan, as a US Navy veteran & a Western New York native, thank you for getting the word out. I am 5th generation Navy, my Granddad was a Seabee in The Pacific. I first set foot on The Sullivan's that first summer at the ripe old age of 12. There's a grainy picture around here of me manning an Orelikon back then. I had known the story of the Brothers even then. Please continue your excellent work.
These are my heroes, keep those boats afloat. I have a huge interest in these grand old ladies myself please love and care for them. I am taking care of my family but once they are gone I want to be telling the story left to us of the ships and people that made it happen. Love to everyone. I hope my nieces and nephews have the wonderful experience to walk in history not just be taught it
I start aboard the ship tomorrow, I feel very privileged, served aboard 2 carriers 40yrs ago, they smell like the old days
Just donated $100. Please donate. The Sullivan family sacrificed so much for us. Let's do something in return.
So glad to get an update and to see Shane and Ryan together. Been subbed to the Buffalo museum's CZcams for the last year following the progress on the Sullivans. They don't do quite as well as New Jersey with their videos, smaller budget and staff, but they really do put out some good content and are worth a subscription! They work really hard!
Ryan is best in class. He's a walking encloypidia on the New Jersey. I'm a Nam army Vet and have watched ten times more U Tube vidios on just interesting vidios by Ryan than Army or Viet Nam vidios.
She certainly gave us a scare last year. It seems that The Sullivans gave up her hull integrity to take out the Moskva, as both started to sink on April 14th
Being from Little Rock I’ve always had an interest in keeping up with her. Which rekindled my interest in the story of the Sullivans. I’ll never know just how difficult it is to keep a museum ship in some degree of shape & operating. Likely never EVER quite enough resources to keep her going, and a lot of folks busting their humps to do it. But man ohh man were we sad to see her taking on water like that. If not located where she is, we might have lost ‘The Sullivans’ altogether. And to be honest, for awhile we were angry. Not so much at anyone, but rather that ‘it happened’. I’d like to apologize for that. It was a gut punch to see, and I can only hope that everyone working so hard there in Buffalo can understand. I’m sure each of them felt the same pains we did. We love our museum fleet, each of them & all of them. It’s a hard task to do what y’all do. But from our perspective - you’re all doing a bang up job. 🫡🇺🇸
As a Sea Cadet who drills at the Buffalo Naval Park and who, as a cadet, spent a week on the NJ for Shipboard Operations in 2012, my heart and soul belong to them all.
Got out to see her and met Mike (I think) the “boat guy” and got an awesome tour. Truly a great group of folks who run this museum, thank you all!
Could you imagine Ryan coming to work and seeing the same thing?
“Oh my God the Jersey is sinking”.
We’re gonna need a bigger pump!
I was thrilled when battleship Texas finally got into dry dock. I believe the info they shared on their channel during their dry dock has helped raise awareness of how fragile the condition of some of these ships truly are. Let's hope The Sullivans and New Jersey both get to dry dock as well.
This channel is amazing. Ryan is a fantastic narrator/host. Classy, professional, and polished. Keep up the great work.
Hopefully they found all the holes in the hull and patched them
Hopefully they will curb any damage that will become apparent in the next several decades. I’m referring to situations like the Texas that flooded parts of the ship in WW II to gain distance on the guns.
When I saw the thumbnail, I thought "Oh no, not again!"
Thanks
I just realized that a way to have multiple museum ships together in the same area (something Ryan said is bad because one might get more attention than the other) would be to slightly raise the price to match two tickets, tours etc and have a way to link the two ships such that when you're finished with one, you walk over a passage between the two into the other.
I would have no issues paying more if the layout favored that kind of arrangement... tho possibly difficult to arrange based on how some places are setup, boats docked.
I was there last week on a trip , no below decks tours due to the damage. The tour guy said she needs to go to dry dock for hull repair but nothing on the books. I hope they don’t wait to long she is a beauty
I went up to buffalo NY when I was a kid before I was super interested in Naval Military History, to bad I didn’t see it back then ILL BE BACK!
Ryan jokes, but we all know that if his girl was listing he’d be working SO hard and SO fast to save her. It’s clear how much he loves his ship!
Point of order. The P-39 was made in Niagara Falls. Not Buffalo. Bell Aerospace was in Niagara Falls. Not Buffalo. Sidebar: Bell X1 was also built in Niagara Falls.
Bell factory/office building is still there and there and in disrepair. Trees are growing out of the couch in Larry Bell's office.
Pretty sure we'll all be here when you're ready and able to get back to us, take all the time you need, take care
I can't remember which carrier it was, but one did sail with concrete patching her bow for a few years until it was time for a refit.
If it's ugly and it works, it's frigging beautiful. ;)
Hello, perhaps a movie night benefit (or benefits) featuring: " The Fighting Sullivans
Original title: The Sullivans
(1944)?
iirc they show that movie on loop in the visitor center
To do a restoration on a World War 2 destroyer the USS Solomons. I never thought the State of New York would have to talk to the federal Canadian government. I thought you could talk to the provincial governments of quebec or Ontario. Into whatever shipyard you want to do the Retoration on the hall of that ship. But a good portion of Canadians would be more than glad to have the uss. Solomons come to a ship yard in canada
I go here every two years with my troop. I love the mueseum. Lots of fun
man, ryan should have his own channel where he does videos like these. i'm liking the videos
Is this not a channel full of videos of Ryan talking about ship preservation?
@@BattleshipNewJersey it is, but Ryan should have a personal channel is what I mean. a channel of his own where he goes around and nerds out on ships. I'm not hating. I'm more interested in the videos about New Jersey than other ships, though the videos on other ships are cool. you would think that videos coming from the Battleship New Jersey youtube channel would be about the new jersey,not the Sullivans or other ships.
This was a fascinating interview, thank you so much for sharing.
If the Canadian dry dock is the one that did Haida, they're good at it.
Wish I'd have known you were coming here, I worked not a quarter mile from the park last yesterday....and will be working about a mile from it tonight
Speaking of destroyers, you really need to do a video on the greatest enemy of Iowa Class Battleships, "The Willie Dee"
Ryan. If I recall correctly, Warspite had a concrete plug in it after it got hit by a German glider bomb in 44. I think they had to freeze her x turret due to it.
Wow, 160k... Ryan, good on you for keeping with the times and promoting this historic ship. Im planning a trip to come see the NJ, hopefully ill get to meet you in person
Great content Ryan. This channel keeps improving with each release.
Let's hear it for curators, archivists, and library geeks being necessary to the process. Glad to see Sullivans getting the help she needs.
I’ve been here and I love it there
I visited the USS the Sullivan's with Boy Scout troop 101.
Wow if I would have known you where coming to buffalo for this I would have like to meet ya.
Me too. I only live a 15-minute walk away! It would have been fun to have a few beers and hear some of your stories!
What I gather from the Sullivan's event is that the water tight doors should be inspected and closed over night to ensure that if another event happens on any of the others ships that you will minimize the sinking and damage that would happen throughout the ship. I would not have thought of that before if I had become a curator until this recent event. Though there are other instances that have shown up in other places like a submarine that sank after the museum that was overseeing it had collapsed and the ship was abandoned in its spot and eventually sank. At least this has gotten other museums to talk more amongst each other and get ideas moving more to keep the pieces of history alive. I am still on board with still talking about what could be done to update the Iowa's in the event they are called back to serve. I would hope that some of us that are back seat watching and commenting and have jobs close to what would be needed are called in to put ideas on the table at the time of need. Hope the Sullivan gets the funding to go to dry dock this year and to get more than just a hull repair.
On active ships the watertight doors are closed in-port after working hours. It's called Material Condition YOKE. YOKE should be set on all museum ships and I'm surprised that it wasn't on The Sullivans.
I love how they have the ships docked right in front of the PJ’s
There's a Sullivan's museum in Waterloo Iowa, if you want to visit.
So Wise , Thank You.
Do you stay aboard the Museum ships when you do remote filming?
I have "camped out" on the Little Rock with my Boy Scout troop. I recommend it.
You guys really need to do like a round table with all the curators!
It would be a "Tale of the Territories" that Vice has done for pro wrestling.
When I was a small child, we would visit family in New Jersey and my father's Aunt had a model of a warship in a glass case. She never talked about it but my family told me that she lost her son on this ship in the war. That model was the USS Juneau. It wasn't until I was older that I read about the history of the USS Juneau and the Sullivans.
Nice to meet with you.
Learned about a lot of different things from this video, very informative! And a Special shout-out to Sen. Schumer for making the funds available to help rescue The Sullivans.
Thanks!
The work that you've done to bring her back up to (the surface) standards.
BB35, Texas had several concrete patches. I am hoping for dry dock tours when your ships get docked like the Texas is doing now (2023).
For those wondering, the Canadian drydock being considered has done a great deal of refitting work with the Royal Canadian Navy
Has any thought been given to dredging the berth while the Sullivans is in dry dock to prevent the bottom strike from occurring again?
The problem there is, the river silts itself up every year! They do navigation channel dredging every 2 years to keep it open for ships. These naval ships are parked in a basin built for them & they can't easily be moved.
would honestly be easier to let the silt build up so they'e buried, probably not good for the structure tho
@@stoutyyyy the same thing would happen anyway. A lake seiche is a violent event. The wind drives up the water level here in a matter of an hour or so & the ships bob up & down, straining the lines & bouncing around. The water level can rise as much as 6 to 8 feet so any silting in would give them MORE of a chance to bottom out.
I've never worked with something size of a warship, but in general, when you replate a vessel, you want to remove the old plate because different types of steel can react with each other creating increased galvanic corrosion. It is not a small process.
The closed captions show :"hinza" which is really HNSA - Historic Naval Ships Association. Most, if not all of the curators of the historic, or museum Naval ships are members, Thanks for the update. Jon, USS Excel, MSO-439 1965-1967, a wooden hulled minesweeper now long gone.
Jon, are you aware of the USS Lucid MSO-458 now being restored as a museum ship in Stockton, CA? Ryan has done a few videos from the Lucid.
I just toured the USS Cod on my last overnight in Cleveland.
Hope you were well fed and housed while here in Buffalo! Appreciate the attention.
you should check out the work being done to the USS Texas down in Galveston
Was right down there the other day!
I wonder if they have contacted the Royal Historic dockyards in Plymouth, England. They’ve got ships from 1560’s onwards. Some have been raised from the sea bottom (Mary Rose!).
60% of the below waterline steel needs replacing 😮wow that’s one bit of a job
Good to see it floating again
I hope they keep The Sullivan's afloat, in memory of the 5 brother who lost their lives together on the same ship.
Battleship USS Texas got into some very bad condition but shes finally going through drydock restoration.
Just wondering, any chance of building a wall around the ship, remove water and fix on place? Sounds like toeing a distance could be a concern....of you get an opening.
I think the Fletcher class is my favorite class of WWII era destroyer. Every one of them that survived the war and served into the Cold War Era is different, still beautiful ships. When they were in service they were thoroughbreds, designed to move, shoot and communicate which many of them did very well like the ships of Taffy 3, punching well above their weight class. Destroyers are still my favorite class of ship even though those serving in today's Navy would give Cruisers like Little Rock competition in terms of size, displacement and frankly firepower. The only things that Little Rock has that modern destroyers don't are armor protection and guns larger than our 5" Popguns.
well two of the three Fletchers at the Battle off Samar ( USS Johnston and USS Hoel) were sunk, the Herrmann was badly damaged but didnt sink
greetings from holland👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍.
It would be cool if the museum ships could be used as mobile museums. Visit ports all over assuming they are seaworthy and can be towed or operated in an economic manner. It would be similar to how old bombers and fighters go to various air shows.
Bell Aerospace was in Niagara Falls, ot Buffalo.
If you really want to see an authentic "Tin Can", U.S.S. The Sullivans is THE ship!
Not the only one.
U.S.S. Kidd is in Baton Rouge, and she is in great shape.
Cassin young in Boston too
Awesome people and video. ❤️🍻❤️
Great job
The main issue with these museum ships is that they need to be put on hardstands nd under shelter. Ultimately, they will not be recoverable. Yes, the cost and a great deal of nostalgia with a floating warship sitting on dry land will be lost. However, the ship will survive this way.
Hey Ryan, this brings up a good topic. During the war, what all went into dealing with flooding and its aftermath in battle? Obviously with electrical equipment and other systems in these spaces it’s not as simple as pumping out water and going right back to it. I seem to remember stories from Pearl harbour where paper decomposing in flooded areas of the ship created hydrogen sulphide gas.
I think that would be a very interesting topic for a video
The channel Drachinifel just did a great video about naval battle damage repairs
I''m curious if you contacted Don-Jon shipbuilding in Erie Pa. They recently did extensive hull work on a submarine in their 1000 foot dry dock.
Brian - have them take you to Gabriel's Gate to get hot wings, a fish fry and then go to Otto's to get a roast beef on weck with horseradish.
This may be random but when you speed the video up you can see the Sullivans was coming closer and closer to Ryan
If they have a diesel emergency generator they need to check the oil sump from the look of the oil that was on surfaces that maybe where it came from. If so the need to get someone in the take care of it before too much rust develops and lock that thing up.
From what you discussed, dredging around the ships at the pier side seems to be something that should be added to the to do list.
The problem there is, the river silts itself up every year! They do navigation channel dredging every 2 years to keep it open for ships. These naval ships are parked in a basin built for them & they can't easily be moved.
@@MrWlbblw If the tide can move them up to 8 ft up and down then this will just repeat unless this is resolved.
@@captiannemo1587 these are lake seiche events. They happen when bad storms roll in every few times a year. The ships have been here for 40 years & this was the 1st time that this sort of damage ever occurred. Normally, it's fine that they sit on the bottom. The problem was that this happened quick & she was being tossed around & that the hull is so crispy now. Once she's repaired, this won't be a problem anymore.
@@captiannemo1587 There are no tides on the great lakes, just wind seiche. A lot less predictable, but also less common. Prevailing wind is west-east, down the full length of the lake and Buffalo sits at the eastern extremity with the river facing west so it gets the full blast of it
As hard as it was for everyone who were related to or knew the Sullivan brothers. I would have rather been with my brothers rather than being separated on different ships or stations. Being separated would have been hard also, not knowing what they were going through or if they were about to enter a battle.The plot in Saving Private Ryan was stressful for me even though it was just a movie, it portrayed truth in it's story in that hundreds of families lost all their young men in WWII. It happened in every large conflict. One small town in America lost every young man that had left to fight, over 40 young men. So I would have wanted to be with my brothers and suffered whatever they were experiencing or enduring.
Where in Canada is this potential dry dock?
Why wasn't the Navy using this problem as a training exercise to teach sailors damage control in real life?
I went through Buttercup training in 1987 & we'd almost gotten the floatie saved & pumped out before a power outage hit Norfolk NOB due to a thunderstorm(sure,guys,we believe you).
A little off topic but I'm concerned to hear that Midway is removing her screws and rudders. I was told by a docent on Intrepid that after she had her own screws removed that the local fire Marshall decided she was no longer a ship and was now subject to a lot of new safety regulations, and that's the primary reason why Intrepid is presented the way she is, with casement windows, full width staircases and entire interior structures inside her. She's by far my least favorite Essex museum (I've toured all four).
Removing the screws is standard for museums. Dissimilar metal corrosion is a big concern. What fire marshall rules are set are dependent on the local requirements and are far from universal. More so, whether or not the screws are attached wouldn't make it any more of a building, its still floating but not moving.
If I saw that coming to work in the morning, I’d be sitting on the hood of the car with my coffee. Light a cigarette and thinking to myself, this is going to be a long freaking day.
Great job getting her back afloat, hopefully she gets into dry dock soon
I hope New Jersy has a plan in case the battleship starts taking on water - what to do, who to call, etc.