Cedar Fair to MERGE with Six Flags! Announcement Breakdown + Analysis | Why & What's Next
Vložit
- čas přidán 9. 06. 2024
- We were all shocked to learn that two theme park giants, Six Flags and Cedar Fair, would be combining to form one big company. This is absolutely HUGE and is going to have a major effect on the future! Let's dive into all the details and the different possible outcomes from this merge, as well as things to watch as time goes on!
Support Coaster Studios on Patreon for exclusive bonus content, including additional videos, a monthly podcast, and interactive discussions! patreon.com/coasterstudios
We made a movie! This is How We Roll is a feature length documentary about the history of Rocky Mountain Construction (RMC). For more information and to get yourself a copy, please visit vimeo.com/ondemand/thisishowwerollmovie
Get your Coaster Studios swag here! We've got posters, phone cases, stickers, sweatshirts, and more! www.redbubble.com/people/Coas...
We're on cameo! Visit www.cameo.com/coasterstudios to get a personalized message, including a roast of your top 10 roller coasters!
Follow Coaster Studios on social media!
Facebook: / coasterstudios
Twitter: / coasterstudios
Instagram: / coaster_studios
Coaster Studios is also on Discord! Meet other enthusiasts and join the chat now! / discord
For comments, questions, & concerns, please contact coasterstudioschannel@gmail.com
Want to mail us something? Send it to:
Coaster Studios
P.O. Box 1354
Midlothian, VA 23113
OUR GEAR:
Sony a7s III www.amazon.com/Sony-Alpha-a7S...
Sony a6500 www.amazon.com/Sony-Alpha-Mir...
Lenses: 18-105mm, 18-135mm, 70-350mm, 35mm F1.8, 24-240mm, 100-400mm, 24mm F1.4
Sony RX 100 VII www.amazon.com/Sony-Premium-C...
GoPro Hero 11 www.amazon.com/GoPro-HERO11-B...
DJI Mavic Pro 2 www.amazon.com/DJI-Mavic-Dron...
Sennheiser MKE 600 www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-MKE...
DJI RSC 2 Stabilizer www.amazon.com/DJI-RSC-Stabil...
Shure MV7 Microphone www.amazon.com/Shure-Black-Ga...
As an Amazon Associate, I earn from purchases made using the links above.
© Coaster Studios. All rights reserved. No part of this video can be reproduced or redistributed without permission from Taylor Bybee and Sarah Anderson, Coaster Studios owners and creators. For permission requests, see email above. Use without consent with or without credit is in direct violation of copyright law. Cropping out the Coaster Studios watermarked logo is strictly prohibited. - Zábava
For our additional thoughts about how this may affect the industry, head to patreon.com/coasterstudios to watch an extra 11-minutes of discussion about this! This plus 50+ other bonus videos for just $5 that goes straight to creating more videos! 😃
I'm always against giant companies merging. Competition always benefits the consumer. If they aren't in competition anymore, things may not get better. The coaster wars will probably end here
Do you think Six flags and cedar fair are the only theme parks in the US?
@@inlinechris they're by far the main ones. With them joining up they could buy others. That's how monopolies happen
@@coasternut3091definitely. I'm not a fan of this development at all.
@@coasternut3091sea world gotta save us fr fr
Hope FTC blocks this...
In all my years of covering this industry, I would've NEVER thought of this happening - but now it's here, and it's real. Very, very concerned by this merger. However, I can't help but think that this massive move was made in order to counter some insane further expansion by Universal and Disney - almost to keep Cedar Fair's and Six Flags' hold on their market share for fear of it being eventually overtaken by them.
I don't think this was mainly aimed at Disney and Universal but at the entertainment industry as a whole. The whole theme park industry has been losing since the pandemic. The only major theme park company that has been gaining in post-pandemic is Universal, even Disney is losing customers and Six Flags and Cedar Fair have been deep in debt and that debt is growing. Six Flags and Cedar Fair have been in a downward trajectory and has to do something to stay afloat
It should be disturbing to everyone who cares about their roller coasters. Less competition means we will get fewer world class roller coasters. Why invest in new rides if you own it all?
As a Cedar Fair and Busch Gardens ride operator who has also been to several Six Flags parks, this is terrifying in regards to safety training. Cedar Fair's training and safety standards are SO much higher than six flags and even the Seaworld parks. IROC has absolutely been a vital part of safely operating rides, and company-specific trainings like the ones at Six Flags and Seaworld don't go nearly as in depth as the IROC standards do. I've heard of and witnessed multiple operator-based accidents as a result of not being specific and structured about safety. IROC based parks also have surprise/secret audits throughout the year to make sure we are operating rides safely. I believe the other parks have similar audits, but they don't appear to be as strict and serious as IROC's since those standards aren't in place. If IROC is dropped from the parks, I would be VERY concerned about the future of safety standards.
Definitely agree. It sounds like the CEO and basically Cedar Fair front office is heading this so that could mean that Cedar Fair’s policy would be in place and not Six Flags policies. Just my guess.
@@jerbearadventutures That's definitely my hope with the leadership staying in place!
@@jerbearadventutures This is what I'm hearing from the reports I've watched. Cedar Fair has a 51% ownership and they'll be running things so the hopes are that Cedar Fair policies will be implemented by Six Flags.
I disagree with this. Iroc slows down operations. It’s just not needed. My home park great adventure has efficient operations the way it is. Also I know cedar fair employees dislike Iroc too.
I’ve worked at Six Flags and Cedar Fair in operations and your assessment is incorrect. At Six Flags, I filled out check lists for EVERY position (front loader, rear loader, front unloader, rear unloader,etc) AND took a test and HAD to past for each position AND for each ride. For operator, you had to write 6 essays per coaster on evacuations, opening procedures, closing procedures, transfers, etc. At Cedar Fair, I was told where to stand, where customers put loose articles and what the height requirement was. So with facts behind me, I wholeheartedly disagree.
‘I’m just glad Six Flags is finally getting a Giga and Cedar Fair is getting a Batman Clone’
-Anonymous
Tbf, Valleyfair would kill to get a Batman Clone.
This is the comment you like, Coaster Studios? Really? How are you guys so cool with this? It’s not a joke. This isn’t good news, mega mergers are terrible for consumers, employees (from both companies), and smaller regional parks all around the country and the globe.
@@istrumguitars *Lighten up, Francis.*
@@istrumguitarsWomp Womp
Does this mean that Cedar Point Fanboy and Magic Mountain Fanboy are now stepbrothers?
That's what I call a Prestige Worldwide
Yes, I think so
Did we just become best friends? YUP!
@@anderfrank1 now they'll be room for so many activities
And the Cedar Fair snobs are the most angry. They can't be above it all anymore 😂
Whatever happens, I just hope that they can fix up Magic Mountain. It has the potential to be one of the best parks in the world, but it's such a dirty mess with some of the worst operations I've ever come across.
The CEO being the guy from Cedar Fair does give me a little bit of hope.
Yes, the Cedar Fair CEO is a glimmer of hope.
I definitely feel like Cedar Fair management is going to be who takes over managing the chain under Six Flags branding
Imagine for a moment: Instead of "Six Flags" giant logo (ᵐᵃᵍᶦᶜ ᵐᵒᵘⁿᵗᵃᶦⁿ)
They rebrand to just "Magic Mountain" with the Cedar Fair penant dotting the two i's.
Then give the park a solo identity and cut out all WB/DC licensing.
I'm in the same boat! Great America, I'm sure like a lot of the other six flags parks, has been going downhill fast. I hope Cedar Fair's standards will bring it back or even make it better than it was
Salim Basoul is still over the CEO as chairman of the board.
I’m still hopeful though.
This is definitely the equivalent of finding out Your mom is marrying that guy you don’t like.😭😂
The teacher you don't like.
Exactly lmao
I'm pretty concerned. It's not even the question of whether certain Cedar Fair parks will have worse operations or more cloned rides or anything like that. My main concern is that usually these kinds of mergers imply a desire by both companies to shed assets and hope that some sort of combined compromise will be more stable in the long run, when that isn't necessarily the case (as others have pointed out, competition can often actually be a good thing). So it worries me that we could be about to see a number of parks close. Especially seeing as how both chains have parks on very valuable real estate. Best case scenario would be that some independent operator would be willing to buy one of the parks and keep running it (like what happened with Indiana Beach), though I think that's is a long shot and it's more likely we'd just see a bunch of coasters get scrapped or sold overseas.
Yeah not many people go to parks they don't live near. I'm on the west coast and had been wanting to go Cedar Point since Millennium Force first opened but Magic Mountain was much closer so I never went until right after Steel Vengeance opened. MM was a 4 hour drive and I still rarely went even though I love coasters.
The parks that will be interesting is like World of fun and St. Louis. But I agree what could happen
@@wrestlingandamusementparkl7789 World's of Fun got a new coaster this year, and the 2026 FIFA World Cup will be somewhat nearby for some of it (Arrowhead Stadium in Kansas City), so that park is somewhat safe given that in only 3 years a pretty major global sporting event will be taking place in the same city. However this does also give some hope for the rides a CGA as there a WAY more parks to send rides off to now (Gold Striker to Six Flags America for example), so it makes things a bit more hopeful on the casters making it out. Also this could possibly change things with that situation that might end up saving the park for all we know.
Six Flags America is home to a 100+ year old wooden coaster in Wild One, and with what happened to Blue Streak still being a very recent memory, I'd argue that makes them somewhat safe. The backlash to destroying a 100+ year old wooden coaster would be quite catastrophic to the company's reputation, particularly given that it's the fourth oldest operating coaster IN THE WORLD (one of only 4 coasters still around from before 1920). If they know what's good for them, they keep Six Flags America or sell it to another chain.
@@wrestlingandamusementparkl7789Hopefully they will both be safe since they are 4 hours away at opposite ends of the state, and if the parks were a few miles farther apart, they would be in different states because SFSL would be in Illinois and WOF would be in Kansas (I would be more concerned about closer pairs like Six Flags America and Kings Dominion).
Personally, I expect that both Cedar Fair and Six Flags will still act as separate brands, but with shared overhead to reduce duplication and simplify operations. At the same time, I wouldn’t be surprised if this merger gets blocked for being monopolistic.
It's not a monopoly in the slightest. You still have Palace and independent parks as well as other entertainment centers.
@@tylerrusnak7736 That's a stupid counter-argument, since those are all tiny and don't offer near the perks nor experiences that CF or SF offer in the upper 47 out of the lower 48 states.
Imagine if Walmart and Target decided to merge... sure you'd still have your local and regional grocery stores in -some- parts of the USA and your Dollar General's, but do those really count?
@@jandrew1994 Yes actually. It's why Disney and CZcams isn't a monopoly. There are other options out there. Monopolies are when there is NO other option for an item or service. Look up a dictionary sometime kid.
@@jandrew1994not even close to a monopoly. Not even close. Less than 10 percent marketshare
Depends on how they regulate, if it's regulated under entertainment then I don't see how this will be blocked
I want to believe in a "rising tide floats all boats" situation. But if I'm Dorney Park, La Ronde, Six Flags America, Great Escape, etc. I'm going to be real nervous for the next 10 years.
The fact that cedar fair is technically the majority shareholder and they kept the cedar fair CEO is HUGE
My guess is that was a requirement for the deal to be done. I can't see Cedar Fair agreeing to this unless they had control. I also foresee Cedar Fair gradually increasing that 51% of control. To get this deal done they agreed to a 51/49 split but we'll see if over time Cedar Fair doesn't try to leverage some of that 49% away from Six Flags.
Cedar Fair is the surviving company when the deal closes. The existing company presently known as Six Flags will be dissolved by Cedar Fair when the merger closes, and Cedar Fair will then rebrand itself as Six Flags. Cedar Fair is the surviving company and is simply rebranding, whereas the existing Six Flags will be dissolved.
As Mitch McConnell said in late 2020 with replacing the seat of RBG, having a bare majority is the whole ball game in life sometimes.
Calling it right now. Magic Mountain will finally get a giga coaster sometime in the next 5 years. That is the major type of coaster they are missing and Cedar Fair has always been willing to spend big on their best parks.
Agreed. I also think they might do some well needed TLC on X2. I predict that Viper will eventually be replaced with a new Vekoma 5-6 years from now.
Thanks so much for getting this out! I really appreciate that your collected your thoughts and made a very in depth video!
I would not be surprised to see them do a tiered pass structure, similar to the Epic or Ikon passes at ski resorts. The lowest pass gets you into X, Y and Z parks, the next pass gets you into those plus A, B, and C. The top tier pass gets you into every park in the chain
Ya, I feel like it will either have to be “you choose the parks” or it’s based on location. Like they do passes for regions
As a Cedar Fair stockholder this was expected. Since the pandemic the company took on a lot of debt when interest rates were low to stay open. The company just like Six Flags has more debt and liabilities than the value of assets of their parks. 50% of cedar fairs yearly profit was from just Cedar point and Knotts berry farm. California's Great America was losing money and sitting on valuable land in Silicon Valley which is why it was sold. The earnings reports recently stressed debt being a huge issue with rising interest rates. I had assumed Cedar fair would sell off less popular parks to pay down the debt like Six flags did around 2006 to 2008. The other option was for Cedar fair to cut its 3% dividend to pay down debt. This option to combine the two to cut down overlapping costs maybe a blessing in disguise that saves 2 companies from bankruptcies 5 to 10 years down the road and will hopefully make one successful and thrilling company.
My biggest fear is that they raise prices across the board.
Exactly! And this would lessen competition, and human history has shown that less competition typically means higher prices (and they of course could use an opaque excuse like economic inflation to raise their prices).
I grew up in the San Jose CA area so I like having Great America so close by. If Discovery Kingdom can be brought up to that level of quality, I think that would be a worthy replacement since I actually prefer SFDK's coaster lineup to CGA's
The main thing holding Discovery Kingdom back imo is that they have a height limit, which means they can never get something like a hyper or a giga. Since CGA is closing maybe they’ll get some of their hand me downs
@@therock238360I'm hoping at least Rail Blazer will be brought over.
I'm assuming Gold Striker would be too difficult to move but that would be a dream too.
Other question is where they even get moved to. SFDK doesn't have much in the way of space for coasters since almost all of theirs are jammed into one small area due to needing to give the animals room. Would love to see the park improve but don't know how it would be possible.
@@therock238360 The only thing holding Discovery Kingdom back is its terrible operations and park quality. And Kong.
Me too! They gotta work on theming and ride ops for sure at SFDK. Take out Kong and put in something better!
@@MacRay14 I could see Gold Striker going to one of the smaller Six Flags parks, Six Flags America in particular comes to mind. From the park's beginning it was home to relocated coasters as Wild One, which originally opened in 1917 at Paragon Park. So another relocated wooden coaster wouldn't be out-of-place. Plus they absolutely have the space for it. The park's Starflyer could even be in the middle of the main drop like with the tower at CGA, it could go alongside the park's train line and back to the storage area. Or go in the place of The Penguin's Blizzard River with the main drop turning away from the midway and the ride being more secluded in the back of the park, there's a lot of space back there.
However things could change with that situation, maybe CGA doesn't actually close down, given how MASSIVE this shake-up to management is, I can't completely rule that option out.
I do find the notion that wooden coasters are too difficult to move annoying because it's been done in the past, Wild One at Six Flags America was a big wooden coaster, and yet that ride was relocated, then there's the Crystal Beach Comet, now at the Great Escape. Would it be costly, sure, but maybe it would be cheaper than building a ground-up wooden coaster.
This news is crazy. So the cedar fair name will be gone. Rip cedar fair name 1987-2023. I think this move will turn out good. I know there’s so many parks that people think that will just get abandoned in all of this but I would like to believe that wouldn’t happen. Also I still have my six flags legacy membership from years ago which I’m worried I might lose since the cedar fair guys are taking over. It’s so odd that the six flags name will be associated with the cedar fair parks now. Not saying they’re renaming the parks though.
They are looking into a pass that will cover ALL the parks
they should un merge the company
@@user-cm4ur2he5vthat’s impossible kid
The name will disappear but the company itself will still continue on, just under the Six Flags name. Cedar Fair is going to dissolve the current Six Flags upon merging, and then take on the Six Flags name. Same company, new name.
@@christiangonzales7429I was only talking about the name. I thought that was obvious
As someone who lives in Northern California I hope when CGA closes they send RailBlazer to SFDK. Pipe dream but saving GoldStriker would be amazing too. I couldn’t even imagine SFDK gaining something like that.
For many parts of the USA this is equivalent to what Merlin did in the UK. All major parks controlled by one company, no reason to compete. It's why Europe is now leagues ahead of the UK, when back in the early 2000s they were about on par.
i do agree with that but there are still multiple independent parks in the uk and they are decently large with BPB being the msot obvious one but paultons is starting to expand so i think competition in the uk will start to increase not much but little
Alton towers at least got some attention by Merlin because it's their flagship park. Heide Park and Gardaland are even worse off, Merlin should give both parks new rides asap (could even be a cookie cutter flat ride, they just need... Anything)
This just immediately makes me think of what happened to Geauga Lake in 2000, and that sinking feeling that it wasn’t going to end well amidst the happy commercials announcing it becoming Six Flags…
I think one benefit not discussed is how much Cedar/SixFlags can negotiate for ride pricing. All the manufacturers better be very nice to this huge park-operating company like this one.
Why would they be able to negotiate? Materials and labor wouldn't be much cheaper? And most flat rides have a 'flat' price these days for everyone. I'd say they'd be able to afford and/or fund development of exclusive ride products from selet manufacturers moreso.
@@iamtinfamousxii9326Not only do manufacturers have their own costs, but also if they do not charge enough, they go out of business, like Arrow not charging enough for X and Giovanola (original home of Walter Bolliger and Claude Mabillard) not charging enough for Titan.
I have seen many people talking about how this merger leading to the parks not being in competition anymore and stagnate the parks. However, Six Flags and Cedar Fair weren't competing with each other as much as they were competing with other forms of entertainment, especially in home entertainment. Less people are going out to an amusement park and are staying at home causing the two companies into massive amounts of debt. Both Six Flags and Cedar Fair are looking to spread and grow rather than compete for the same customer base. The merger is not ending competition: it is reinvigorating these two companies to be able to compete in a larger market.
I feel like water parks are widely unconsidered as well. In most places I’ve traveled to for coasters, the water parks were the most popular. If they don’t own the water park, that’s a whole day that people are not at their theme park. Fortunately places like Great Wolf Lodge are open year round, but many water parks are competing for summer guests.
I am just as shocked as you are. I hope Kings Dominion and Carowinds are alright
Carowinds Is safe because there moving the Corporate office to Charlotte.
@@Carolina_Coastersfair point.
@@Carolina_Coasters what I read some hours ago the whole thing still requires shareholder votes to go through, and it's not yet final?
KD and Carowinds are safe. However, if they want to sell some of the parks as a package I wouldn't be surprised if either Knott's or Magic Mountain is included to drive up the price.
Carowinds is definitely safe, it is the new CedarFlags HQ1.
KD is also definitely safe but for a different reason. They're already a borderline elite coaster park with its top 2 coasters and also they're one of the few parks that actually has outside competition (Busch Gardens Williamsburg).
The ones I see being sold off to smaller independent companies or going full on independent are the Six Flags America, Great Escape, Frontier City, Darien Lake, La Ronde, possibly Dorney Park due to competition with Great Adventure, and obviously Discovery Kingdom is a huge winner because CGA is obviously closing and Discovery Kingdom will likely get the majority of CGA's hand-me-down rides now (at least ones that aren't duplicates or near-duplicates).
Hi Taylor and Sarah, I worked over the summer this year at Cedar Point. Eventhough I worked for a Cedar Fair park, I had a very unique experience working at Cedar Point. I worked both in the Park Services department as well in event operations. When I worked in events, the primary job I did a majority of the time was clean event venues for private events and groups. Other smaller things I did were help with the booths at the Frontier Festival and help lead marching bands through the park. During the time I was in Park Services, I cleaned the midways and kept the trash cans from overflowing.
The key thing here is the 51% cedar fair and 49% six flags. This is a cedar fair buy out which is excellent news. Cedar Fair manages their parks and produces a much better park experience than Six Flags. Six Flags has the branding; Cedar Fair has the quality. Cedar Fair is smart to take up the Six Flags branding. This merge will make existing Six Flags parks more enjoyable. This is good news.
Is this only the first step in what Cedar Fair wants to do? Did Cedar Fair agree to this at a 51/49 split in order to get the deal done with intentions of leveraging over time to increase that ownership?
As one person commented earlier the nice part about Cedar Fair parks is that each park has it's own individual identity whereas Six Flags parks are all just a corporate cookie cutter appearance. When you go to a Cedar Fair park it feels like you're going to a unique park you've never been to before. When you go to a Six Flags park it has the feel of just another Six Flags park only in a different location.
Like Mitch McConnell reminded us in late 2020 while replacing the seat of RBG, having a simple majority is the whole ball game in life sometimes.
10:24 “If they’re using their brains, this is a no brainer” is probably the best quote this year.
I was waiting for your video since this announcement. Love it!!!
I think you guys are right that some of the smaller forgotten parks will keep getting tossed aside but big parks like Cedar Point and Magic Mountain will continue in keeping up to date with new roller coasters. The parks that get forgotten about will probably to their coasters to other existing parks. The food will be a interesting experience since you don’t really go to a six flags park for food but the cedar fair parks you can always find something good to eat that thought was put behind it.
I’m an employee at SFDK as a ride trainer in Oasis Plaza and currently my main thought is training. I don’t know how fast these things will come if ever but that’s the one thing on my mind. I also think that the changes they are going to do will be very subtle or quietly introduced
Can’t wait to see that old guy from the commercials dancing in front of Steel Vengeance.
Were excited! More parks to visit!
That is some massive news, great detailed information.
Never realized until I used headphone that your intro has surround sound! Also been waiting for this vid ever since the announcement!
Hey y’all! Your favorite Six Flags Fiesta Texas operator here :). It’s been a while but here are my opinions.
From an employee perspective I am very interested in what they will do with IRoc. Fiesta Texas specifically has had a big push for efficiency which IRoc may hinder with the staffing realities of Six Flags Parks. However we may see more commitment to staffing and training increasing both strict safety procedures and ridership (not saying Six Flags isn’t safe, but IRoc goes over the top sometimes). I personally think Fiesta Texas is an amazing example of what other six flags parks will begin to look like. Clearly Salim started to move that direction before the merger (he frequently made visits to fiesta too) and I can see this move continuing. Expect higher quality major additions that may be less frequent, but in those off years a heavy focus on park improvements.
Final thoughts, 👍👍from me
ironically even though it is the Cedar Fair management team surviving they'll have some data from Six Flags they can look at. This may well convince them to abandon IROC.
I've never visited SFFT, but I've heard great things about it in recent years. Getting rid of IROC and bringing training back in house would be a huge win. Cedar Point used to be great when it came to operations and they've fallen off rather drastically since IROC came in. Every year they come up with some stupid "safety theater" idea to further slow things down.
As a SFSTL employee I am very nervous about this merger!! I am more nervous that they will rip apart the current management and the newly promoted park President Dan snider!! He has been amazing for our park!! I’m just worried that our park will fall down the ladder!! I feel our park was finally getting attention from the corporate level and now I fear we will get shunned!
@@zacharyvickers3100 It's nice to hear STL has a real president now and isn't sharing with Great America.
Nothing in the information released to investors at the park level was subtractive. No signs of park layoffs or liquidation and the SEC requires that they tell investors the truth on that. Everything relating to park experiences in that information was additive and suggested that the focus on experiences at Cedar Fair the last few years will continue and be expanded to the Six Flags parks they're acquiring.
If that's true look for them to add a nice new indoor restaurant like Worlds of Fun got Boathouse Grill in 2022.
Something I forgot to mention is employee benefits. Theoretically, employees will now be able to visit all 42 properties for free. For fiesta Texas specifically, Schlitterbahn is a water park owned by cedar fair, and is only about 45 minutes from sfft.
I just hope for someone like myself that is active in Cedar Fair live entertainment that the quality, and quantity of shows don't diminish, it was already bad enough that most Cedar Fair parks received cuts in the budget for shows for this current year, it really makes me wonder will it now improve, or will it fall off even further.
not to be nerdy but do you have some examples
@@user-xg1rg7td1b examples of shows that I've been in?
Was the 1000th like for this video! Great video!
I think it’s going to be overall positive for SixFlags, the fact that they are keeping the Cedar Fair CEO and 6 board members make me think SixFlags will definitely start to become managed more like Cedar Fair. I doubt much will change at the Cedar Fair parks at all.
That depends where you live because in Missouri we have 3 major parks and the Cedar Fair owned Worlds of Fun (Kansas City, MO) is the most neglected park out of them........
Silver Dollar City (Branson, MO) and Six Flags (St. Louis, MO) are ranked as better parks.............
@@kennethcadwell2124in Virginia we have three major parks to compete with those are SFA in large Maryland .KD in Dowell Virginia and Busch Gardens in Williamsburg Virginia. SFA being a Lowe tier park would probably get the axe. We're already seeing this with the current CEO of six flags shutting down whole area's as a cost cutting measure.
@michaezell4607 well he doesn't have control any more under the new merger. As he isn't the CEO anymore.......
My main point though was that the Cedar Fair park in my state is actually worse than the Six Flags park is...........
@@kennethcadwell2124 they are definitely still going to play favorites for their most profitable parks.
@@kennethcadwell2124 I think it's important to remember that even though these parks are part of a bigger company that each and every park is individually run locally. Cedar Point is the best Cedar Fair park because that's the headquarters of Cedar Fair and is their flagship park. However the CEO of Cedar Fair doesn't have time to micro manage every park. Each park will still need to be successful on their own and they can't expect large sums of cash to be transferred to them to boost them.
Cedar Fair brings stability to Six Flags. No more changing of CEO every few years with different ideas. Six Flags brings 12 month a year revenue. Most Cedar Fair parks are in cold weather locations and are shut down six months a year. At the park level I don't expect that to change much as the parks who earn the most revenue will be able to invest it but as for the company as a whole it will help the stock and make it more valuable.
I can definitely see this merger leading to the company placing more emphasis on their flagship parks (Magic Mountain, Cedar Point) to compete with Disney/Universal as nationwide "tourist" parks while neglecting and even closing some regional parks.
It's interesting that Charlotte and Carowinds is the new headquarters (the closest park to the Florida juggernauts along with Over Georgia). I can definitely see Carowinds getting additional investment to beef it up into a destination park.
long time viewer. first time comment! great job guys you helped inspire me for to do a channel as well. great comment on this was waiting on it.
I hope they do more of the Great Escape route. I also think they might follow the Bass Pro Cabela’s route where you’ll see the other’s logos in each of their locations
Very wary of this merger - it creates a near-monopoly of the large regional park market, and there's no way around it without selling a bunch of the smaller parks to Herschend, Palace Entertainment, or even Merlin. But the biggest competitive advantage this provides is the ability to sell mid-tier season passes for 2 or 3 parks in a given region. If they sell a $150 annual pass to SFGAm, CP, and KI, I'd definitely pounce on that instead of going to Epic Universe right when it opens.
Part of the rationale for this merger is that uniting all the big northern seasonal parks (SFGAm, SFGAdv, CP, KI, CaWo, KD, and SFNE) would help them compete against the massive expansion in Central FL. And the focus on adding new coasters / immersive attractions for these parks will be much more geared to marketing a cheaper alternative to a FL park vacation than in the past.
Was waiting all day to hear y’all thoughts on this
You guys were one of the people I couldn't wait to hear from about this. I felt like some of the other enthusiasts that I've watched/read their opinion on have been saying little to nothing I was surprised by. I feel like Theme Park Predictions was playing it safe saying little negative stuff about the merger. I personally see 4 or 5 parks getting sold off within a year or 2. I think otherwise it's a good thing with new IP and synergy between them. I think the giant parks should skip calling themselves SF in front of them (and the bigger SF parks should get rid of it too). I think it works as a moniker for a couple parks (like Great America, Over blah blah) and certainly helps sell a smaller, local park to consumers. Bigger, destination parks don't need that branding IMO (Magic Mountain, Great Adventure, & most of the CF parks especially).
I think this was a great move for both companies. We've seen similar success in 2017 when Bass Pro Shops acquired Cabela's, and I see no reason why the same thing can't happen with these two as well. I think Six Flags can learn a lot from Cedar Fair, such as better operations, improvements in cleanliness and atmosphere, and less ride closures.
I currently perform at a cedar fair park & have been able to count on employment for that since 2013 or so... but with this, Im not sure if Im going to get a call, if Ill have to audition & if I do, if Im selected still.. itll be interesting to see if entertainment offerings at my park need my type of talent on top of my already limiting schedule 😅
However, I cant yet say Im performing at a six flags park quite yet :p
I think we'll see some closures over the next 10 years, I also think we are going to see general ticket prices rise a higher amount. $80-1$00 for a day tickets will likely become the norm for all the parks by 2026-2027
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
We can blame reckless government spending for that
@@AdamSmith-gs2dvStupidity, as what individual companies charge has nothing to do with Government spending..........
It's called a capitalist system that allows greedy price gouging..........
@@kennethcadwell2124Inflation raises prices regardless of whether the guys setting the prices are greedy or not. Right now both are major factors.
@@kennethcadwell2124Also in your preferred socialist or communist paradise there wouldn't be any amusement parks/theme parks, so there's that...
We need to know Cedar Point fanboy and Magic Mountain fanboy's opinion on this!!!!!
This is insane ,12 year old me would flip out about this, and the fact that it is really happening is insane!!!!!!
I'm a little worried how all the parks will be affected by this with prices experience and additions and more
Well, here's what I see from a very outsider perspective (as in, I'm from Italy).
This merger only spells cuts, overcharging, and a whole lot of less steam into making new attractions.
From what I've seen, I do not trust that this will benefit us in the end.
Basically have an 80% hold on Amusement parks now, they have no reason to compete anymore. Theme parks like Disney and Universal serve another type of customer all together, they're not too much after the coaster enthusiast usually (with a few exceptions, like Velocicoaster).
So in the area of pure amusement park, there's no competition that can come close in terms of control and capital now if this merger goes through.
They can go ahead and slowly boil the frog, charge a little more here and there, cut there and there, ever so slightly increase the number of years a new attraction is put in one of these parks.
And when they don't make revenue anymore? That's a lot of potential land to sell to developers, who will more than likely run the parks to the ground for house and commercial development rather than re-invest in the park itself.
In a monopoly, no one wins except the suits. Even with a company as run down by greed as Disney is, they still have enough IP control and raw capital to keep boiling that frog up, when the quality of their experiences are ever so more getting tarnished.
So yeah, in my opinion, do not expect anything good to happen out of this merger. Good luck and sorry a lot of stuff you like is about to go sour.
Agree
This merger makes me wonder if it could help improve the American Eagle at SFGAm. That 40+year-old ride badly NEEDS to be redesigned/ strengthened so that BOTH blue & red trains can race each other again.
I completely agree. It was rough back in 2016 when I rode it last.
As someone who’s been out of the rollercoaster enthusiasm loop for some years … what a bombshell
Fascinating situation!
While "Six Flags" is a stronger brand recognition than Cedar Fair, part of CF's strength was in the solo branding and identity of each park.
Other than the font and penant logo, there's nothing to suggest that Carowinds, King's Island, and Cedar Point are a "chain" or "part of a franchise."
But Six Flags always felt like there was a lack of identity as a casual consumer. It was just "Six Flags: Location."
So hopefully they absolutely do not rebrand any of the Cedar Fair parks. If anything, I hope they *_*DEBRAND*_* Six Flags parks.
I swear if they change parks like CW to Six Flags Vaughn, im never going to a cedar fair or six flags park ever again
@@user-cm4ur2he5vDon’t worry they said they won’t
@@user-cm4ur2he5vthey said they won’t add the Six Flags name to Knott’s Berry Farm so I expect this trend to be the same across all Cedar Fair parks.
i really hope this ends up getting blocked by the government. This merger will do nothing good for guests for either parks. All its going to do is reduce competition, raise prices, and lead to less overall investment into each park, since they dont have a nearby competitor anymore.
This will be an incredible improvement for travel companies.
Great Escape is called Six Flags Great Escape…. They changed that awhile go….. La Ronde and FC are the only two parks without the SF name
I am in a wait and see frame of mind over this merger. Think this will decrease competition overall in the industry since these 2 companies competed against one another. Also am concerned about the smaller park systems....like Palace Entertainment.....and their ability to compete. They wont have the large capital for investments of rides as this new company will. Thinking along the lines of the Walmart effect. They come in, everyone thinks it is great, smaller mom and pop stores close as they cannot compete then only have Walmart......if they remain in that location or shut the store down later. Hope springs eternal so will see what the future holds.
You guys raised a lot of questions I didn’t have originally, like certain operating procedures they have. I am going in optimistically, but definitely cautious as well, especially concerning Six Flags America and Californias Great America.
Both parks are pretty expendable at this point, and with their competition being in the same chain, is there really much use to keeping them around?
Six Flags America has one big thing in their favor, Wild One, it is the 4th oldest operating roller coaster in the world, it opened in 1917 and is 106 years old as of 2023. Given what happened to Blue Streak is still a very recent memory, the backlash for destroying the 4th oldest operating coaster in the world (and one of only 2 coasters in the U.S. built before 1920) is something that they'd want to avoid. That is the reason I'm not worried for the park, it would likely damage their reputation quite badly given how vocal ACE and other groups would be about Wild One.
This MASSIVE shake up has me wondering if CGA might actually be saved, while unlikely I just can't completely rule that out either.
Six Flags Fiesta Texas is my home park and I always heard good comments about the park. I think with some of the other Six Flags parks that get less work to theirs parks maybe they will get better improvements and better theming working with Cedar Fair will help.
Six flags is the escape goat of 2023 this is so interesting😆
If there is even a tiny chance that they don’t go through with this, I really, really hope that comes to fruition.
i agree
That would be one of the greatest failures to get excited about in history (like watching the UK break off EU). I was so happy when Cedar Fair kept rejecting offers from Six Flags and SeaWorld in previous years.
We're not even sure if this deal will go through The FTC has been really hard on companies recently, and they might block the deal due to a decrease in competition.
Sure sounds like it will
It’ll pass. Airline merging is different from a leisure amusement industry.
They allowed T Mobile and Sprint to merge and that had way bigger issues than this
Pretty sure it'll pass, they allowed Microsoft's acquisition of Activision Blizzard to happen
@Sun-mu4rp actually the FTC wanted to block the Microsoft ABK deal, but Microsoft won in the court of appeals so it went through
As someone who works at the frontline level in this industry at CP, my job won't change much. I've worked janitorial and now in ride operations. We'll still be dispatching trains, carts, and other vehicles and working do that efficiently as we always do.
I expect that the new company keeps IROC, and it will roll it to all of the parks in a limited form by March or April of next year. This will be the basic levels of IROC, no seatbelts on hypers or anything like that - yet. But there will be differences in how operators do their checks and clears, as well as their safe zones next year. None of that is difficult or expensive to implement. I think the more noticeable changes will come in 2025.
On the trains like CP&LE RR though you'll get the system they use at all the parks. It's different from IROC. I forget the name of it.
Thank you guys so much for this video. Some pretty big rivals are merging? that was out of nowhere, hopefully maybe after this carowinds will get a gci or rmc. And hopefully valley fair will get a new coaster, but still this is crazy. But this can be a amazing decision or a train wreck. Also can you guys do a top 15 again
ElToroRyan would be the man to weigh in on this as he has worked for both Six Flags and Cedar Fair.
He thinks Six Flags does a good job with its maintenance and is very biased about them. I got hurt two separate times on El Toro and their staff & management did nothing about it. SF workers are lazy & very poorly trained at almost all of their parks. They need CF to train them on how to be better ride ops. (They could have KI ops show them how it's done, or maybe have the ops from Fiesta Texas, who also has great management).
I think this merger has been in the works for quite awhile….because it now makes sense why the Six Flags theme song was playing on a loop in the animatronics garage during the 2023 Winter Chill Out
FYI: Seatbelts are for insurance! It’s cheaper if the rides have seatbelts!
I wonder how consumer market authorities react to this merger
Well, Knotts will probably open more family coasters while MM will focus on thrills. I know it has been their MO's for the larger parts already, but this would solidify it.
One of the things that needs to be addressed is their are just too many parks, too many mouths to feed. Need to eliminate the low producing, low margin, low price point parks(SF has a bunch of low price points). The EPR lease parks need to try to end the leases early..Darien Lake, Frontier City and the 4 stand alone water parks. The Rockford IL water park adds nothing. LaRonde, Great Escape and SF America should be sold. That eliminates a total of 5 parks and with CGA closure 2027/28, that's 6, so have 21 dry parks. These sales could be used to pay down debt or provide the money needed to exercise the buyout option on the partnership parks of Over Georgia and Over Texas which are in 2027 and 2028 respectively. The total cost to buyout the partners remaining 68% at SFOG and 46% at SFOT is a combined 521M
Growing up the only Cedar Fair park I went to was Dorney Park. Can’t imagine how it’ll change
The name thing would be really weird. I grew up by Dorney Park. Never could I imagine Six Flags Dorney Park....maybe Six Flags over Allentown? haha But name recognition is VERY valuable. Cedar Point cant change their name...I wont accept it. :-) On a side note, you guys have one of the best channels for Amusement Park news and reviews and overall videos. So great job and thanks for the content!
I hope there is option for a smaller tier that is regional. For example I don't a pass to get me in every park but would like to be able to get into Knott's and Magic Mountain on one pass. Either way I hope the combined effort leads to better experiences such as double sided lockers to improve operations, better quality family/flat rides, removal of old bad rides.
I doubt they'll do that but it would be great to have park passes, regional passes and then chain wide passes. They could divide company into regions and charge less than the full chain wide annual pass.
Some ideas
Great Escape, Great Adventure and Dorney
Magic Mountain, Knotts
Carowinds, Over Georgia
Kings Dominion, America
Over Texas, Fiesta Texas (same chain already but if this idea came along it would make sense)
Cedar Point and Kings Island (same as above)
Valley Fair, Great America, Saint Louis, World's of Fun
A Canada's Wonderland/La Ronde pass would sell well
I'm a CedarFair Corporate employee. From what I've heard so far, I think its going to turn out to be pretty good for mostly everyone. I guess we will all know more in H1 of 2024!
I am skeptical it will benefit consumers. It's rare that less competition in the marketplace benefits consumers.
You're going to enjoy Charlotte if you aren't already here.
@@coreylineberry8557I work remotely.
it may be better for CF corporate employees than it will be for soon-to-be-ex corporate employees of SF.
At least for a few more years there will now be two Six Flags Great Americas! The two parks have finally reunited under the same brand once again.
wonder if my season pass for great adventure would get me into cedar point now. that you be awesome
This truly will help the Six Flags chain improve imo. Imagining every Six Flags park with the management from Cedar Fair???! Cedar Fair Parks are ran by workers who actually care, and that's one reason why their parks are superior to Six Flags.
Im just worried it will be the other way around
Cedar Point has a lot of foreign seasonal immigrant visa workers who are like 20 and don't care about anything except getting their foot in the door to try and get a green card.
@@jandrew1994yes, that’s pretty much every ride operator in every single amusement park across the country during the summer.
@DeepFriedMeatloaf Cedar Fair's management team is the one that survives the merger so if their philosophy changes they would have likely made that change anyway even without acquiring Six Flags.
@@jandrew1994 Well that doesn't seem like a problematic viewpoint at all. People like complaining about staffing levels - but then take issue with how they do it. I've been to parks with visa workers and I'm going to tell you right now I've seen plenty of lazy theme park employees. I've never seen the visa workers on cell phones instead of operating a ride, or chatting it up and forgetting to hold a green button forcing a ride to estop. Not once. The only people I've seen do those things are the local workers.
@@jandrew1994They care alot more than the employees at SFOG. Kings Island especially is absolute top tier when it comes to operations
honestly im still in shock, I've been coastering since 1999 and i would have never thought this would happen
So many wild things about this merger. 1) In theory, Hanna Barbera characters could return to Kings Island, Kings Dominion, Carowinds, and Canada's Wonderland, as Warner Brothers owns them. 2) But Knotts is upgrading Camp Snoopy and adding Camp Snoopy to Kings Island in 2024. 3)Adding even more drama, Warner Brothers is currently rumored to be merging with Paramount.
I am definitely curious about how the season passes will work.
You guys should check out Amusement Insiders. They specialize in Canada's Wonderland but they also go in depth in the business aspect and what could happen in the future.
CRAZY News!
I'm just excited for Knott's Magic Mountain rebranding
Cedar Point: A Six Flags park kinda works... Good point Taylor.
One thought is will we see a lot of older rides being moved sooner from larger parks to smaller parks?
I honestly don't think that this is a good idea. Cedar Fair and Six Flags fusing together would be entering a brand new Era for all theme parks across the country. There's the good and the bad that always comes with changes, but we will see what happens and hoping that it all works itself out. I'm worried about what's going to happen to Knott's Berry Farm. I hope that nothing changes, Cedar Fair already did a great job with the park during the 2010's decade. Knott's spent money reburnishing and adding rides like Calico Mine Ride and Coast Rider in 2013, Log Ride in 2014, Ghostrider in 2016, Sol Spin and removing Boomerang in 2017, Hangtime in 2018 and Calico River Rapids in 2019. What about the other theme parks like The Adventuredome, Lagoon Theme Park, Elitch Gardens, Silverwood Theme Park. They might also go through changes as well, despite not being owned by those companies. I could see the CF/SF fusion's first victim being Michigan's Adventure, now that park could use a huge makeover. After that, Michigan's Adventure will no longer be the butt of Cedar Fair.
I doubt youll ever see this but what is that arrow train model kit thing in the back it looks so cool. 5:40 i kinda wana make one. Would anyone know if you can buy those?
I'm actually very optimistic about all of this, I think it'll go well and will benefit both companies
As someone who has spent thousands in both, I fully support this. Six Flags needed to be shown how to properly run a park. I suspect the days of cheap season passes will be over for Six Flags patrons. But I am also confident that they will also invest more in new rides and attractions. Which, if you are an avid park goer, is a good thing. Things get stale and need to be changed.
Very interesting
This will probably be good for Michigans Adventure
....lol? I wish, it's my home park, but I doubt it.
The best case is probably for an independent angel investor to buy it and build it into the next Hersheypark elite independent park with tons of new ground up world class coasters, including an RMC hybrid and at least one if not two elite Intamin's, like a Velocicoaster in the lake or going through the Michigan woods. There's a ton of unused space to make the park great and we need restaurants with real, healthy, sustainable food options that are not burgers and fries-- and a couple shows would be nice too.
Im cautiously optimistic, if this is a success, then this will be the best thing the industry has ever seen.
i'm worried about parks like knott's being six flagged. it's been sad enough since cedar fair took over, on the other hand magic mountain could benefit from aspects of cedar fair's way of doing things.
This is where parks rank on getting investment:
Cedar point
Magic mountain
Kings island
Great adventure
Carowinds
Great America (Illinois)
Fiesta Texas
Wonderland
Knotts
Kings dominion
Over Georgia
New England
Discovery kingdom
Over Texas
America
Darien lake
Mexico
Valley fair
La ronde
St. Louis
Worlds of fun
Frontier city
Michigan’s adventure
Great escape
i agree but carowinds should be higher, the new company's head quarters are going to be like 10 minutes away from carowinds, so carowinds will probably be kind of a testing ground, not to mention they are due for a new coaster
Six Flags America is probably one of the most imperiled by this merger, though, since it's effectively competing with Kings Dominion. It seemed like the chain was starting to pay it a little more attention, but maybe this changes that.
Now if Cedar Fair and SeaWorld had merged as we were talking about a few years ago, we might be concerned about the Kings Dominion vs. Busch Gardens Williamsburg rivalry.
You don't think Michigan's Adventure will be near the top? LOL
Id put World's of Fun above St Louis, Kansas City is a growing metro while St Louis is a dump
did you see that I 305 is going to get rethemed? do you think they’ll do a new area or will they make it jungle expedition themed?
As a CF corp employee, well six flags now. It’s for the good. Parks will run like CF with the technology of six flags. I believe the IP for both chains will get bigger, cf parks will largely focus on elevating snoopy and the peanuts and sf parks will focus on DC. It may switch from looney toons and go to the peanuts.
Sarah, good point about the cross training! Didn’t think of that.
Well we can be definitely see the beginning of the end for both SFA and KD real soon soon and we can definitely forget about that wing coaster on volcano's site.