The real reason you still can't speak your target language
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- čas přidán 16. 05. 2024
- You've studied for years but you can't speak when you want? Here's why, and what to do about it.
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Edited with Gling AI: bit.ly/46bGeYv
#language #languagelearning #Lingoda #linguistics #speakingpractice #speakingskills #learning
Obviously not the main point of the video, but that throwaway line about refusing to endorse BetterHelp made me love you even more.
Same, betterhelp is awful and all the youtubers endorsing them are soulless
@@JunkforcacI’ve seen people promoting it, what is wrong about it?
@@raina4732It's more expensive than many therapists, BetterHelp doesn't check it's "therapists" backgrounds and some of them aren't certified and I think users' data has been leaked.
@raina4732 there were issues with therapist's qualifications, and data protection as well. There may be more, but it is seen as more of a money maker than actually caring to help people.
The hind brain stressing makes sense.
In my teens when I visited family back in Poland for the first time since baby form, I found out, to my absolute horror, my parents never bothered to correct my 'baby' pronunciations. They thought it was cute. I had been talking to the diaspora like a toddler, and no one said anything! Why!!
I overthink everything a lot now.
That is so awful and also so hilarious. I’m sorry that happened!!!
Some fun sentences in the heavenly languages Norse and Icelandic are...
Ek heiti Freyja ok ek em at læra Norrænu því ek elski (elska) hana! (Norse)
Hann ǫrninn vissi ekki hvaðan kemr Sólin... (Norse)
Ek veit alt er þú veizt ekki! (Norse)
Ég hef talað Ensku síðan þegar ég vas (var) tveggja eða triggja ára!
En ég get líka talað Hollensku og Norsku og Spænsku og FornNorrænu!
Ég get talað Íslensku reiprennandi og ég em (er) ekki með neina hreim!
Ef ég gæti lært annað mál, hvað væri það? Það væri auðvitað Danska!
Ég em (er) að hugsa að það er mikilvægt að læra að minnsta kosti eitt erlent tungumál, eða flest fallegu tungumálin!
Svo ég valdi Íslensku og ég héld áfram að læra hana...
Ég læri það í samhengi... (Icelandic)
Hvíslaðu að svaninum!
En ertu frá hinum hlutanum?
Þegar ég segi Ísland, hvað er það fyrsta sem dettur þér í (hug) hugi?
Als ik Ijsland zeg, wat is het eerste wat naar boven komt bij jou? (Dutch)
Some of the prettiest words in Gothic are namo, þein, hunds, þatist, ik, weis, eis, qen, driusaima, wairþan, ains, sinteina, nist, imma, twais, eisarn, swikn, uhteigo, brunna, faíraþro etc!
(The words in these heavenly languages are just so pretty and so poetic and so cool, they are true works of art, so I definitely wish I had learnt them in childhood, and I highly recommend learning them all together, as they are way too pretty not to know and so magical!)
By the way, when it comes to learning languages such as Danish and German that have accents that aren’t easy to imitate and a quite complicated pronunciation, one must also practice a lot things such as accent / glottal stops / pronunciation / sound placement / intonation / sound projection etc, as they have very unusual sound projection and placement and some unusual sounds (like the soft D in Danish, for example) that aren’t easy to figure out how to do - so, I would say Danish and German are the languages with the accents that are the hardest to imitate of all Germanic languages, whereas languages such as Norse / Gothic / Icelandic / Faroese / Dutch / Norwegian / Welsh / Breton / Cornish / Latin / Italian / Galician / Manx / Esperanto / Gaelic / Latvian / Irish / Slovene etc have some of the accents that are the easiest to imitate and some of the easiest pronunciations that are as easy or almost as easy as the neutral American accent and English pronunciation, so these languages are naturally very easy to pronounce (except for the LL sound in Welsh, which isn’t easy to figure out how to do) with accents that are naturally very easy to imitate, so they don’t require a lot of practice, and, I could sound native in Icelandic and Norse and Dutch etc even at a beginner level or intermediate level, but now I am upper intermediate level in Norse and advanced level in Icelandic and upper advanced level in Dutch, at least vocab-wise, and I even sound very natural in these languages, as it was very easy for me to develop and imitate the right accents, however, I am really struggling with developing the right Danish accent and the right German accent, so I have to practice a lot and hear a lot of spoken Danish and a lot of spoken German!
I don't think that's true. I think knowing even 1000 words you can get talking, in principle, but then you have to build it from there, of course. Before reaching a comfortable B2 level it's always going to be frustrating trying to speak in a new language, it just needs to be pushed through, doggedly, until an ok level is reached.
?
I think it's important to keep in mind that speaking a language is a skill, not just knowledge. The brain does not learn how to do something if we don't practice it, no matter the amount of theory we know about it.
I teach ESL and this is exactly what I tell my students/learners. I don''t care if you've "studied" the language for (X) years...How long have you been practicing (ie, using) it?
@@adammoore7447Indeed it's about results and there are no medals for the time spent on language learning. In fact I have even felt ashamed to admit when I had started some on-and-off language projects when asked. People often ask "so how long have you been learning...?", but it's a random number that does not have anything to do with success. Imagine gym rats not asking each other "how much do you lift?" but "when did you first get your gym membership?". It does not even get close to "do you train often?"😂
Exactly right. I tell myself that I’m a participant, not a student. It forces me to use the languages, not just study them. I give the same advice to the adults that I tutor.
To be able to say anything in the new languages, one must know over ten thousand words or over fifteen thousand words automatically, so one has to revise / see / hear each word at least thirty times over a longer period of time, which is why one must use the spaced repetition method, and one must also constantly analyze and repeat all sorts of different sentences with different grammatical constructions, to really be able to maintain a natural flow throughout the full sentences, so I recommend focusing mostly on vocab videos and memorizing / analyzing as many lyrics as one can and watching every single video with subtitles in the target languages, and I also recommend learning at least thirty thousand base words automatically in each target language, over the course of five to ten years, to get to a writer level in the target languages in about a decade or so - one can recognize many words after only seeing them a few times in pretty and easy languages such as the Germanic languages and the Celtic languages and the true Latin languages and other pretty languages such as Hungarian and Latvian and Slovene etc, but, to be able to freely use the words and to automatically remember them without having to think about them, one must see each word many times, so one must constantly revise and repeat previously learnt words, while still learning hundreds and thousands of new words every week or every day etc, until each word can be instantly processed and automatically remembered, and, it’s like that in any language, including the first language that one is made to learn, even though most don’t notice that because they aren’t actively trying to learn the first language, but yea, it takes a lot of hard work / revising to learn languages, because there are just so many words that one must learn automatically and permanently! (By the way, I highly recommend learning the prettiest languages ever created Norse / Gothic / Icelandic / Faroese / English / Dutch / Norwegian / Danish / Welsh / Breton / Cornish together as they are equally gorgeous and way too pretty not to know, and, I would recommend always choosing wisely, by only choosing the pretty and easy languages with mostly pretty words that have a modern and professional sound or at least a nice sound, for their gorgeous poetic words and cool sound, as opposed to trying to learn a language that doesn’t sound good and that doesn’t have mostly pretty words that is also unnecessarily complicated with odd alphabets or writing systems that aren’t an alphabet and that are impossible characters (because they have more native speakers) etc, as one can learn more than fifteen pretty and easy languages at the same time, as opposed to only learning one or two impossible category 10 languages, choosing wisely being the key to being a successful polyglot and enjoying the learning process, and, by the way, I am learning 25+ of my target languages at the moment and focusing mostly on the Norse languages and Celtic languages, which are the most fun to learn and speak and hear and see!)
Some fun sentences in the heavenly languages Norse and Icelandic are...
Ek heiti Freyja ok ek em at læra Norrænu því ek elski (elska) hana! (Norse)
Hann ǫrninn vissi ekki hvaðan kemr Sólin... (Norse)
Ek veit alt er þú veizt ekki! (Norse)
Ég hef talað Ensku síðan þegar ég vas (var) tveggja eða triggja ára!
En ég get líka talað Hollensku og Norsku og Spænsku og FornNorrænu!
Ég get talað Íslensku reiprennandi og ég em (er) ekki með neina hreim!
Ef ég gæti lært annað mál, hvað væri það? Það væri auðvitað Danska!
Ég em (er) að hugsa að það er mikilvægt að læra að minnsta kosti eitt erlent tungumál, eða flest fallegu tungumálin!
Svo ég valdi Íslensku og ég héld áfram að læra hana...
Ég læri það í samhengi... (Icelandic)
Hvíslaðu að svaninum!
En ertu frá hinum hlutanum?
Þegar ég segi Ísland, hvað er það fyrsta sem dettur þér í (hug) hugi?
Als ik Ijsland zeg, wat is het eerste wat naar boven komt bij jou? (Dutch)
Some of the prettiest words in Gothic are namo, þein, hunds, þatist, ik, weis, eis, qen, driusaima, wairþan, ains, sinteina, nist, imma, twais, eisarn, swikn, uhteigo, brunna, faíraþro etc!
(The words in these heavenly languages are just so pretty and so poetic and so cool, they are true works of art, so I definitely wish I had learnt them in childhood, and I highly recommend learning them all together, as they are way too pretty not to know and so magical!)
Respect the hell out of rejecting a sponsorship segment from better help
When people say to 'just engage' there is another very useful dimension to this, providing you can tolerate the pain for a while. One of the worst hurdles is worrying about how other people perceive your efforts, what you 'sound like'. If you start and people actually reply to you that hurdle can be surmounted. Also, when you interact those people feed you both words and patterns for speech. Language at its most basic and everyday is not greatly creative, it is made up of interchangeable blocks and by speaking with people you learn which blocks to use and how to arrange them.
Yes - I think it would be really useful to think about Adele Goldberg's (1995) Contruction Grammar and her notion of the "constructicon" - which relies on the compilation of these formulaic chunks as the foundation for grammar, whether from syntax, morphology, or phonology even.
ANYONE is better off with Krashen's approach. I NEVER encountered someone who says that can understand one of the languages I know well but "can't speak" that passed the following test. So you can understand, right? I send the person a random video with a native speaking that language. They are speaking fast, with slangs, partially in dialect, very relaxed. Then I say., "transcribe to me, please, the first 30 seconds of this vide in English (or Portuguese, since I'm Brazilian). They never can do that. If they CAN, they also can speak the language. The fact is that you can easily be DELUED in believing you understand more of the language than you actually can. Specially if you are basing your judgement in understanding material made for students, not by natives for natives. It all really comes down to: YOU DON'T UNDERTAND ENOUGH of the language to speak the way you are expecting yourself to speak. You cannot say what you cannot understand. That person may exist. but I'm yet to find one.
I even have a special girl for people who say they "can understand" Japanese but they cannot speak. Because I was understanding quite a bit of other videos when I still watched her and it was just gibberish to me. I'll defy ANYONE who say "i can understand Japanese but I can't speak" with y girl.
Brilliant. And all in less than 15 mins. "Beer goggles for your mouth" cannot be improved upon
I learned how to speak Spanish by trying to translate random every sentence I thought and then immediately looking up any word or construction I couldn’t produce.
I’m trying to learn a third language (German) now, and it’s bizarre, but every time I try to speak it, I slip back into Spanish haha
haha when I was learning french I'd try to translate every song i really liked (i still have most of them memorized 20 years later T_T) and now that I'm trying to learn Swedish I keep.... trying to slip into french. I feel you!
I think this happens to most people.
I'm learning Portuguese for my friends, English is my first language, but they said I spoke it with a French accent 😂 it's funny how we slip into our second languages when speaking a third.
I DO THE SAME THING OMG
I’m wondering if this works in Romance languages better than in other ones? I’m learning a Slavic language and if I use google translate or even better AI translators like DeepL, most of the time the sentences are translated literally from English, but that is almost never how people would actually say it in the language. My husband is a native speaker and he corrects my sentences 90% of the time, even if I use AI translators. The only reliable thing I’ve found so far is memorizing the sentences I hear natives say in the exact word order. Which is kind of exhausting and frustrating.
I went to Brussels a few months ago, and I was feeling fairly good about my French, until I actually tried to talk to someone, and then I felt like the only word I knew was "quoi?" because I said it about a thousand times
Japanese learner of ~8 years here, love reading/writing, HATE speaking.
Super introverted and shy so language exchanges/making friends was a super daunting task and never worked out for me. After over a decade of waiting I'm finally going to Japan and it's been the kick up the backside I needed now there's a clear date I need to be able to confidently speak.
I'm still too nervous to meet new people, so I've started talking with a teacher on a weekly basis who I knew already (she taught me Japanese when I first started). It takes the pressure off slightly but every time I go I always feel this sense of dread because speaking is so hard for my brain both mechanically and socially. Outside of the weekly chat, I'm trying to find new ways to practice speaking by myself like shadowing, but your method of saying what you see is really interesting and appealing to me so I'm definitely going to implement that into my study routine as well, thank you.
Yeah I don't even want to talk to people in my native language, so a second language is rough.
Idk I don’t think that’s being introverted that’s just social anxiety
I've been doing a mix of pimsleur, clozemaster, italki, and harassing my friends who are native speakers every chance I get and it's worked very well in my target languages in the past.
Pimsleur helps so much! Game changer for me! I also use HelloTalk.
My earbuds were having connective issues when I first clicked on this and I thought the silence was on purpose
LOL
I love watching Twitch streamers in lieu of a language tutor or language exchange partner. The streamer is Doing Something, and that something provides you context for what they're saying. They're constantly using those little "ums" and stuff. They're probably very online, so their speech is probably more Englishy than average. And there's already an existing community of people talking about what's happening on screen in your target language. They're typing conversationally, reading their typos kind of forces you to imagine the voice speaking the words.
15-40 viewers is a pretty good sweet spot where the conversation is fast enough to be active but slow enough to allow you to participate. The streamer will read your messages and sometimes autocorrect your mistakes in grammar or vocabulary. People love getting viewers from foreign countries and they love when you take an interest in their culture. I've met a lot of cool people who speak little or no English on Twitch. I highly recommend searching for streamers who speak your target langauge.
The strategy worked 20 years ago when we didn't have CZcams or Twitch. We would go into online chat rooms with IRC and MSN messenger. You could read the chats and understand that they mimic spoken speech without the pressure of having to respond immediately.
Algorithm leave a comment followers numbers engagement viewership analytics channel growth statistics, if I’m being completely honest
Same, bro, same
You are so real for that
Grammatically incoherent much?…
There's also the part where irl people don't speak with pauses between every word, but the end of one word flows together with the beginning of the next one.
Spot on excellent advice. I think too many CZcams influencers forget that learning a foreign language often requires a bit of work. When I moved to German speaking Switzerland-already knowing German at the B2 level-I still worked hard. When planning an errand or preparing for a meeting, I would look up vocab and write out some scripts to memorize. The planning and prep is essential. I remember when natives stopped switching to English-when I stopped uh-ing and ah-ing. I still prepare. For instance, I just joined an archery club. What did I do? I watched a boat-load of archery videos in German.
Very helpful. Thank you!
Always interesting and informative, thanks
Glad I found you. Love your channel and takes on basically everything I’ve seen so far. Keep up the good work!
Thank you!
Many thanks for the information video! I think the advice is delivered in a very funny way which 100% helps to remember. However, potentially wrapping up with some bullet points or something like that, would be a welcomed addition. Thanks again!
The largest problem with the alcohol technique is that it works until after the second drink. I found this out the "easy" way in France --- I had couple of glasses of red and my host family noticed that I was speaking much, much better than I had been doing up to then. Of course, the scientific method recommends "observe, form a hypothesis, test." My hypothesis was "if two glasses is effective, four will be twice as nice, six thrice so, etc." The testing was fun but consistently disproved the hypothesis -- multiple experiments were conducted. After two you're loose but consume more and you're incoherent in any language.
Also: when in the field, for every 30 minutes you actively engage in conversation, you're going to need a couple of hours to decompress. You will not feel very confident in your abilities the first several hundred decompression sessions, however over time you will achieve fluency, often when you least expect it. Others probably have more efficient methods.
Thank you so much!
Thank you!
I find that writing things in my target language is helpful for getting better at speaking it. One thing that I've found works well for both expanding my vocabulary and getting better at expressing myself in another language is subscribing to a "word a day" email and then writing at least a sentence in the given language. There are a lot of websites that send out free "word a day" vocabulary emails. You can even keep track of words that you're having trouble remembering and try to incorporate them into your writing on other days. I also think that a big trick to getting better at speaking and listening to a new language is interacting with it as frequently as you can without another language as an intermediary. Use flash cards with only images rather than the translation in your own language, and watch movies and TV shows in the language that you're trying to learn, using subtitles in that language if you need a little extra help, but not using your native language as a crutch. Also, when you encounter a new word, look up the definition in that language rather than the translation in your own language. Some of these things may need to wait until you have a solid foundation, but don't be afraid to leave your comfort zone.
Great vid as always! Could you make a playlist for all your language learning tips vids?
Great video, Dr. J. In my experience (and I'm a bog standard amateur), the key to being able to speak effectively is to wait.., a wee bit; listen, listen, listen...a lot; watch, watch, watch a lot; read, read, read (stuff that interests you)... and THEN speak. Firstly with yourself, around the house, and, as you said, notice the 'holes' as you do so, and then go back and fill them in. Finally, talk with native speakers as much as you can (easy now with the internet...yes, I'm quite old) and when you do so, and this is the CRUCIAL bit, when you do so, don't give a **** about getting it wrong or making an ass of yourself. Admittedly, this is not an easy thing for many folk to do, but you can train yourself. And, in any case, and speaking for myself, I find that being a bit older, for once, is an advantage. Thanks again 👍
This is helpful; thanks.
I am trying an experiment on myself that maybe other people have tried, but I want to do it anyway. I just treat the language I am studying like it is part of English, my native language. I just speak that language out loud mixed with English when I walk the dog. (I assume the neighbors think I am talking to the dog, which I like to do anyway.) I don't care if I am not perfectly following the rules exactly. I try to use the words a lot this way and I figure once I know the words better, then I can worry about all of the other details.
I also study verb conjugations making short sentences in English and the other language like "If I tell you something, then you will be told something by me." I like to study active and passive verb forms this way, but I change who the subjects and objects are. So far, I like doing it. I don't know if it will work. I still forget words, but who knows.
I do likewise with French when I walk in the hills. Best wishes!
This is a version of “interlanguage” that definitely helps. I don’t know the research on it, but I should look into that and make another video!
I wonder how similar the grammar has to be for this to work. My study language is *so different* from my native language that it doesn't make sense to do both at the same time.
You're a good guy, Dr. Jones
Anki Cards + being very severe with mistakes + emotional images + maximum speed or it’s wrong. Duly noted. This is actually supercharged spaced repetition.
I just want to caution you on this if you're not already advanced. I tried this as a beginner and the sheer volume of cards you're going to have of you do this and you're still learning vocab (so less than what is considered normal for your Lang, mine is about 20k word and I know about 2k) might make you stop wanting to do them, which is a bigger problem (quitting).
Always be sure to not take on more work than you can handle, whole trying to get as close to the top of that as you can reasonably deal with.
I had to start being more lenient with myself, and put the higher focus on learning more words, whole doing other things (like talking to friends) go improve my speech, instead of being super strict on just the flashcards.
Anyway I hope my ramble makes sense, it's just that being too strict on cards is a mistake I and many of my friends have made
@@littlered6340 Thanks for the insights! With which language did you try it? I'll start with Russian's motion verb, myself.
@@1langueen100jours Japanese!
Honestly I don't know much about the other non Asian languages, they might be easier, but I think a lot of people accidentally underestimate the compounding effect of srs cards.
I am not using Anki, but I know they recentlyish added FSRS, which I think works on a card by card basis? So that might be better? I do everything as cloze, which isn't super useful for FSRS, so I can't confirm.
Good advice with the fillers, that's something I learn first to buy time. And constant speaking in my head. Have hypothetical conversations with all the random people you see in the streets, in the train, in the shop etc
This is like me 40 years of learning spanish, i can understand, i can write, i can follow Spanish youtubers, read spanish articles, pass c2 exams but i cannot really get words out of my mouth quickly nough that my verbal spanish matches what's in my head
❤😂 that intro
Thanks
Hi. I really like your content. I think I've heard at least one CZcams language expert suggest that high intelligence doesn't contribute to faster or better language learning, and that in fact no one is any better than anyone else in their innate language learning abilities. Could you possibly do a video on this topic?
You said that the sponsor is a perfect match as I looked down to see an ad for Hinge. Then, Lingoda was revealed.
My Ad was for plimsuer 😅
I talk to myself in the car, talk to my kids as much as possible even though they don't understand, talk to myself around the house about what I am doing, etc. It really helps getting my brain to simply think in my target language (French). Great video.
Tbh i would just talk to myself in private, starting out with small little phrases, but as i got better i started to have more options
I got lucky living in a dorm for a year in Kyiv while learning Ukrainian. So right in the first week in learning I could have little conversations like everyday just to practice with native speakers. It would start with "what are you cooking?" And then from there it could build up as the weeks and months went by. Now I am reading children's literature and really building a strong vocabulary. I read the BFG in Ukrainian and now I am reading "В Країні Сонячних Зайчиків" or "In the Land of Sunny Rabbits" (a figurative term for sun beams) and doing my own index cards (no photos though, but a lot of the words are now abstract ideas instead of easily drawable emotions and objects).
Preemptive comment: becoming comfortable with making mistakes (not taking yourself seriously). // after 7mins I'm almost certain that this is it xD. Sure, you can be more concrete, but... If you want your audience to retain any information:::::::::: 1 idea. A bit sad that this is... true. Love listening to your videos though. Soothing voice, succinct thoughts and presentation. Being this close to the camera kind of gives away the reading, though. Merci du Canada! Suerte con todo. Edit: ight you did summarize it in the end. Good advice[s] and I'm gladly reminded of why I shared your videos in the past ;)
I do some of that with my reading. I'm reading Maurice Leblanc's L'aiguille creuse (Lupin). I read a good part of it aloud. I try speak the dialogues as close as a person would talk. Sometimes, I read the narrated part very fast, but in a natural speed.
I have been learning Korean for almost a year and now at an intermediate level. I started attempting to speak to native speakers very early on, taking classes with a tutor who could speak barely any English. From my experience, it is pretty important to try to speak early on but you must have a realistic expectation of your performance and look at it as nice practice and cool social interaction (with relatively rare languages it is an amazing ice-breaker and I made a bunch of Korean friends in just one year mostly because they initially remembered me as a white dude who for some reason attempted to learn their language).
If I could do it all over again, I would definitely spend less money on tutors in my first six months of studying. Most importantly, I would choose a tutor who could speak English at a high level, able to explain grammar and nuance to vocabulary (why one word can be used in a given situation and another is unnatural) to me. I realized that, before you reach at least a pre-intermediate level, it does not really make much sense to expect a lot of utility from speaking practice with a tutor.
Now I am studying 90% of the time with a textbook, looking up words and grammar that is not explained in the textbook, using Anki to improve word recognition (I don't think it helps my active vocabulary A LOT; definitely helps, but not very much) and actively employ ChatGPT and HiNative to look up example sentences, meanings, and cultural nuance behind different words, expressions, and grammar structures. I am taking only one hour a week and it feels more beneficial now because I can incorporate many of the words and grammar I learn on my own in a real conversation, improving memorization through practice.
Beer googles for your mouth is possibly the best way to put that! Love your content brother, keep up the strong work.
I’ve also read that, in the context of fast anki retrieval, that the context sentences or chunks should strive toward Miller’s law in size (7 words, +-2, for those at home).
I literally just finished my very 1st level of Japanese, so in between memorizing the new alphabets and learning the mandatory "Nice to meet you", I don't have enough vocabulary or grammar structures yet, but I'm definitely re-watching this video in the next couple of months.
I am always hearing about all these interesting platforms etc but hardly any of them have modern Greek and that's my target language. So I'll just continue to sit in the corner on my own 😁
i like this
For the algorithm!!!! שבת שלום ומבורך, אחי
Interesting, useful video, thanks. Maybe a decline in social skills in the internet age aggravates this challenge? Anyway, I perform less well in real French chats than when I talk to myself. Your video helps me understand that phenomenon. Best wishes!
How do you feel about using a language exchange for a sort of reverse crosstalk in which both people speak the language they're learning 100% of the time?
My belief is that you can learn comprehension through videos, podcasts, audiobooks, etc., and focus on speech production in a low-stress environment because you don't have to deal with understanding a foreign language spoken in real time. I've had great success learning Spanish with it.
I struggle learning German for a few reasons, some of which you address in this video. I have a built-in practice partner, but with a caveat. Meine Frau. She speaks English perfectly and with little accent. She also struggles to translate on the fly. Apparently she cannot switch back and forth quickly. Here's my problem with learning. I have to first warn her that I'm going to attempt something in German otherwise there is no chance she will understand me. She then gets extremely critical of any pronunciation I attempt. She then goes off on a much wider tangent about the word, how it should be used, and why I have to get all of it completely correct. (Her uncle once corrected me for using Sie in addressing him....should have used, du. LOL)
Her best friend in Germany has no trouble with anything I say. She understands me perfectly the first time, every time. I think that my wife has spoken English for so long now she thinks primarily in English and can't hear words in German when I don't pronounce them perfectly. (She is a perfectionist as you've probably guessed.) Her girl friend in Germany speaks German almost exclusively and if I'm even close she hears what I'm trying to say. Just like a native English speaker might not completely understand a different accent, but gets the general idea anyway.
Anyway, that's a long way to go to say I've struggled for years to learn German. I can understand almost everything I would see on a billboard or store sign. I can understand menus and simple phrases, but I still struggle with anything more complex than asking where the bus stop is located. I just keep hoping for the epiphany to happen. I've had a few, but not enough yet. I have taken to listening to basic German podcasts....that's helping a bit. I would like to find the German equivalent of Sesame Street. I think that would help the most.
Great video! Thanks for it!
You mentioned kind of babbling to yourself in your target language. As I'm beginning to try to speak in German, do you think it's fine to babble absolute nonsense and even fake words to myself, in hopes that subconsciously there is something real trying to come out of my mouth? For example -- trying to say something and saying the first words that come to my mind.
And say I were using a language exchange app as I cannot afford Lingoda at the moment, is it better to speak just as I would speak no matter how bad it is -- or should I verify sentences with ChatGPT? Should I stick to only the vocabulary I know, or is it better to look up words I want to use?
Thanks if you get a chance to answer these.
I overthink about how my words will be perceived so much that I stumble even in my own native language.
Thanks coach Ram-... er, Jones!
Thank you for investigating Better Help and rejecting it. It can very well cause more harm than help.
You made my day with that "social alcoholism" comment! Cheers! ;)
I stopped studying English when I left high school like 25 years ago. I've never taken lessons again, and I've never practiced my speaking abilities either. I just write some comments here and there on CZcams. Also, I used to chat with some girls in English, but they never corrected me or tutored me; it was all written. All I do is watch content in English all the time. The thing is, without studying or any kind of specific preparation, I recently passed the C1 level exam. It was the longest I've ever spoken in English in my whole life. It was just like 10-15 minutes total, but it felt like much more. I almost blundered because I collapsed for a minute after the 2nd question, but I could recover from that and end it successfully. I don't know how I made it since I literally never speak in English. No one has corrected my accent ever, not even in high school, because at that time, all we did was learn grammar and how to write or read. Can watching content in your target language be all you need, or was I just lucky? Does the brain, even if you don't speak it out loud, correct itself by hearing content on how to speak? I know for sure I sometimes talk to myself in English (if that makes any sense), but I never do it out loud (obviously). But that's all the 'training' I've done in my life... Or is it that the C1 level isn't that challenging?
I don't think having an accent is counted against you in those exams unless it is so heavy that you are incomprehensible.
@@nickpavia9021 It was more about the "can't talk" topic but probably you're right and having an accent isn't something they take into account in those exams.
Sabbath shalom my friend. See you on Sunday!
Interesting. I'm quick thinking and fast-talking.
I struggle a lot with vocabulary and sometimes have things on the tip of my tongue.
When I "get " things using comprehensible input, I find it automatic to use them.
But "get " things using comprehensible input, is taking quite a while but nothing went in wit horther methods. I'm mainly learning Greek and it's very very slow.
But basically, it's a different mix for me than in your video ,as far as i can tell.
Was it you that recommended 'mirroring'? Speaking along with something - like for French, listen to RFI's Journal en francais facile with the transcript and try to speak with the recording? If that wasn't you, would that be one way to practice?
So do you have both recognition and production SRS cards? If so, what kind of balance between the two? How do you choose which to use for a given word?
Another question: do you fail the production cards if you don't produce the answer in 20ms (or at least very quickly)?
Thanks for your videos, you talk so much sense, it's v refreshing.
My main avenue for Czech practice right now is either explaining grammar points to or loudly scolding small, naughty children. When you're saying "Get down off that table!" or "Why would you do that to your friend?" or "No, guys, it's THIS page. Hurry, please..." or "Hey, put that down!" there’s no time for hesitation or embarrassment. The only disadvantage is that the kids generally don't know enough themselves to correct my errors 😅
What teleprompter software do you use to get your speech so perfect?
When I was learning English at the age of 14, I was at a point when I could speak the language pretty confidently but I couldn't understand it by listening. The reason is simple - I would always practice speaking with myself, and I got pretty good at it, but I didn't have the internet at the time so I didn't even have an opportunity to listen to it. That is to say that I don't think that listening is objectively easier than speaking, it certainly wasn't for me. They're two separate skills and it really depends on a lot of factors.
Most of my language learning has come through solo learning through books, so I’m significantly better at oral production than oral reception. I prioritize learning derivational and inflectional morphology with the limited exposure I get so that I can get the most of what I get. With my great interest in phonetics and phonology, my pronunciation is usually pretty decent, so when I use my weaker languages I preface, my “blank” isn’t too good because I have difficulty understanding, but often time people will think I’m being modest because of my perceived efficacy. Finding aural comprehensible input that is interesting is sometimes difficult.
I wanted to know if other self learners experience something similar
You’re describing my life
I have the opposite problem. I'm very poor at (french) oral production - my pronunciation is fine, but I struggle with vocabulary and sentence construction - but I'm quite good at understanding conversations. I have ADHD, so I prefer podcasts, and I recently discovered a folder of Pimsleur Method recordings on Internet Archive that are definitely not the best thing ever, but are still rather enjoyable to use while cleaning the house or doing anything else. So my dilemma is that French people notice that I understand them, yet they are startled when I refuse to talk in French - because I know I would stumble and make a mess.
When I discussed this nervous sensation with my therapist, she tolde me that it's okay to express to new people that I'm having difficulty speaking French right now but that I still want to try.
so I can relate to this feeling :,) also this video was quite helpful; I had been waiting for it for a while!
good luck, hope we'll all find a way out :)
I seem to recall a recent study that measured the "beer goggles" effect in second-language acquition environments. It was only effective for low quantities of alcohol e.g. 1 beer. Probably not sustainable as a learning strategy due to "social alcoholism" as ProfJones has called it.
Bon… alors… à mon avis… it’s a good video ! Among the key advice : you need to store grammatical, or more simply speech patterns, equally important as individual words. And those fillers to gain a few more milliseconds ! Small comment from a French native speaker : “emmener” is with two Ms, whereas “amener” has only one. I believe the first M in “emmener” is for the sound “an/en” and the second for the actual sound M.
Great video, only thing I disagreed with was the disdain for AI chatbots. I've used one for quite a bit, they work well. I learn a few new words here and there and it helps with me getting sentences out. Thanks for the tips.
Dido. Not sure what paid version he was referring to. ChatGPT works great for me. It's definitely no substitute for a real human, but it's a convenient substitute, because I find speaking with myself to be incredibly difficult. I typically use it for research type conversations, so maybe it's not as good if you want to talk about your day.
@@tommyhuffman7499 he’s likely talking about teacher ai, xiaoma’s program. That’s the one i use. I enjoy it.
It's simple. You get good at what you practice. I read for hours a day in Greek for 2 years and knew a ton of words but when i would speak i was still pretty slow and made mistakes. Now i'm focusing a little less on reading and more on training my ear to be able to understand people because even if I can say sentences at a decent speed what good is that going to do if I can't keep up with what they say? I don't want to keep saying "slow down"
I do opposite in German all listening no reading. My comprehension after four years is not too bad. I'm able to hear all the words parce the sounds. There's still words I don't know.
@@Branden-vl9sl If you only do listening how do you gain vocab? You have to keep seeing what the words mean for it to stick. Listening is great for ear practice no doubt you need it but reading is also very good as it allows you to go at your own pace and find more vocabulary easier.
@@Hellenicheavymetal I use a srs app to build up my vocabulary. I do read the word in the target language. So I guess that counts as a tiny bit of reading. But the sentence it's within is in my native language english. It also has sound it pronounced the words for you. So you get even more listening practice. I use the subtitles to find words I don't know to look up. Add them to the spaced repetition flash cards. I do read the subtitles to find words so I guess that counts as a little bit of reading. But I don't do it very often and only for a few minutes.
My problem when engaging in L2 production is that I can't compartmentalize well among the languages I know. Hence, when I'm trying to speak French, graammar and vocab from Spanish will leak in. The same happens in German, only the intrusion is French elements. This reflects the order in which I learned these languages: Spanish, French, German.
Are there any Anki decks you recommend for French sentences?
Yay, I' also follow Piece Of Hebrew. Shabbat Shalom!
What are your thoughts on "preforming" the sentence in your head, then saying it quickly?
Also how bad of a habit is it to use filler words like "like" or "yknow" from your native language in your target language?
What about writing? I feel I can write pretty well in Spanish for the amount of time I have put into it, but I don't speak. I feel like if I can write I can speak if I really wanted to but maybe with bad pronunciation which is something I would think I need to practice. But if you are writing you are retrieving the words to express your self but they are output through your writing instead of the mouth.
"She's Canadian, but that's ok, she was born that way and we don't judge" - Instant laugh and like. Canadian self-deprecating humour... this is the Way.
When you mentioned recognizing "on his father's side" in Persian, it made me wonder how many constructions like that are recent borrows, or have been invented by language users independently, hundreds of years ago, and thousands of miles apart.
Haven't watched the video yet but commenting for the holy algorithm. The reason people can't speak is because they're not speaking enough. Whatever ego, sense of pride, or feelings of embarrassment you have- get rid of them. Start talking, people will understand.
I'm an American in Finland and I have met dozens upon dozens of people who have lived here for 5, 10, 15+ years and they can hardly order a coffee because they're afraid of looking stupid or messing up. Don't worry about that stuff. I run into people who speak with perfect grammar, but their flow, intonation, and accent are all out of whack and their vocabulary is lacking. They think too much and they're afraid of screwing up.
Yes, follow your routine of reading, writing, listening, and comprehensible input- but don't be afraid to output. I'm so sick of seeing this bulls**t with CZcams polyglots who are like "Before you even try to speak, you need to watch Peppa Pig on repeat for 8 hours a day 5 days a week for 2 years! I swear bro, it works! Plz, it works seriously! You'll open your mouth one day and all the right words will just fall out!"
No dude. For all practical intents and purposes don't be afraid to speak. People say that it's so dangerous to get locked into bad habits, but I've found that as my knowledge increases it's easier to just check out the grammar if I need a tip and to go from there. Do what feels right and what you enjoy, but be sure to practice your speaking.
I'm learning Hungarian and my bf is Hungarian but we always speak in English because my level of speech in Hungarian is poor. Below infant child I think lol. I am having lessons once a week but I just can't recall the words needed for sentences. It's a work in progress, I just hope one day it all clicks.
I don't always agree with your content. It sometimes rubs me up the wrong way. Here I felt on safer ground.
A lot of good insights and suggestions which are worth thinking about.
The first time I went to a language group my anxiety was sky high. A moderate amount of alcohol helped/helps. I have a large glass of red win and when it's gone I go.
There is specific content for a conversation, words and phrases that don't mean much but keep the conversation going.
A sort of example of this is the British set of Hi. How's things?/Very well thanks/mustn't grumble..... it's a linguistic but relatively content free conversation. If a British person asks how you are they are not asking you how you are and don't want to know (if they do want to enquire about your wellbeing they'll find some subtle and appropriate way to do so). This is just a British example.
Another thing I think is important. Don't, if at all possible, translate into your Target language. You'll be reduced to constant 'how do you say this? How do you say that? What's the French for such and such?
Wherever possible avoid this. It means finding idiomatic English and translating this into L2.
This means you are constantly focusing on what you don't know or can't say. Focus on what you can say spontaneously with mistakes if need be.
Finally speech is hardly ever error free. Just get it out there. Some of the mistakes will just get sorted out with time. Some might not. Speaking is about expanding your verbal expression over time and with practice.
Definitely drank in Russian once at my buddy's dacha. He decided his neighbor needed woken up at 1 AM to meet me.
When I woke up the next day, he was sleeping outside and every drop of alcohol was gone.
Gooooodddd if I went back to school I'd study linguistics, I love your videos (and your scripts!! hehehe). Any who, yes to all of this!! Steve Kaufman often says, "if you wanna speak well, you have to speak a lot" XD. I'm sure it comes sooner for some than others though.
Something I'd like to add for fellow learners is that reading out loud might help, too. When I have no bandwidth for spontaneous speech, reading a text in in my target language out-loud (that's usually full of interesting and fun chunks of language) at least makes me produce the language. It's even better when I (if I'm reading fiction) try to role-play as the character(s). Not sure if that helps with lexical retrieval, but it has certainly helped me boost my confidence and made the language more comfortable/less awkward in my mouth !!
I would wonder with the amygdala, fear response shutting down the brain (which I would agree with), but I've also heard feel like those lessons are burned deeper into my brain. Which I guess makes sense. If my brain is in fear mode it's going to learn those lessons well.
After over a year of study using through Buntus Cainte, and visiting various Gaeltachtaí, I can read at B2 level, but my speaking and listening not so much. I havent tested for tbat, but I am at A1 at the highest. I would put myself at A1.
Neighbour languages are ok. I'm Portuguese native speaker, I studied Italian, felt blocked for like 6 or 7 months, but after that I could talk, even if not perfectly. (I'm still studying, of course.) Now, Czech reminds me of my first days with English decades ago, because I keep asking myself if that is even possible.. (to speak in that language, or understand anything at all...) But I'm really beginning, and as my priority is still Italian, there's no way I'll get anywhere so soon with Czech.
Is Ramsey Dewey your BJJ tutor?
I just want to say that if you don’t NEED to speak, you can spend your time with what you do need to do.
If you are learning a language with little possibility of needing to speak it, spend time with what you need. For example, if you love love Anime, maybe you only care about your listening comprehension. 3 years down the line, if you get a chance to go to Japan, you will likely have 3-6 months to switch over to practicing production.
I’m an extreme example: Latin. I just care about reading it. There aren’t even any true native speakers to speak to. If I were not also a teacher, O wouldn’t spend much time in production.
If you train your writing, you will be good at writing. If you train your speaking, you will be good at speaking. Learning lists of words is necessary but does not by itself allow speaking.
Can confirm. I’m a far better writer than speaker even in my FIRST language. :)
just started the video but the answer is easy: pronunciation and diction. I hear a lot of english daily, and write it, but I suck at speaking it.
Who was the paper on Naughty Mnemonics by? I'm thinking about writing my linguistics master's thesis about it. Gabriel Weiner?
He just mentions that sex and violence and high emotion help encode memory - this is pretty well established in the academic literature in both neuroscience, learning, and psycholinguistics. You could probably track down his citations though. If you use the exact phrase “naughty mnemonics” please give me an acknowledgment, since I independently coined that!
Gabriel's book is "Fluent Forever." It's an excellent resource. I think a good amount of his resources are online too.
appreciate mentioning that we may not all be neurotypical and more appreciate the adhd mentions!
There's also an opposite one.Being able to speak but not understanding. That's even more frustrating.
The method of "language learning through a significant other" is kinda famous, but the downside is, if you start learning another one, would you be dumping that person?
There's even a saying in my language, which uses the same word for "tongue" and "language" that makes it a lot more alliterative: "a language cannot be learned unless a tongue touches another" (dil dile değmeden dil öğrenilmez)
A funny bit of trivia: there's a technique in programming known as "rubber ducky programming", if you're stuck in a problem, grab a rubber ducky, and explain the problem to it, doing this will make you think through the problem you're having without being stuck in your own brain, and it is pretty effective, it often helps you find what you're doing wrong.
So, if you need to practice speaking ,grab yourself your own rubber ducky and talk to it, rubber ducky doesn't know your target language either, so no need to worry it will be judgemental :)
I love that! I should honestly think about making a video about the jargon file - I had to use it to understand one of my phonetics professors who is an old school programmer/hacker from before the personal computing days
@@languagejones6784 Woah that would be amazing!
@@languagejones6784 I think about the magic/more magic switch story much more often than is probably warranted.
So as a linguist, why in your in opinion is it that so many language classes fixate on grammar terms and the technical aspects of language at the expense of teaching students to speak?
I tried learning two foreign languages in universities located in more than one US state and the story was always the same: Professor speaks in English most of the time and students are barely ever asked to speak let alone have a conversation.
Would it be so odd to have classes structured around the end goal of achieving the different CEFR or ACTFL levels?
whats that blue thing that keeps appearing behind your head?
So, I have what may be an odd question.
I'm legally blind. Not quite totally blackout blind, but getting there in a hurry, more's the pity.
I use and have had success with Pimsleur But I'm always looking for better ways to learn.
Most of what I've found is, understandably, focussed toward those who can see. Flash cards, applications, videos, etc, etc - while these make perfect sense when you can see, they're far less productive for those who can't.
I've got a good ear, and can "usually" pronounce otherwise alien words with reasonable fascility. I'm just looking for better methods.
I'd love to hear any ideas you might have.
I was wondering if u can help me to understand how someone with photographic memory (or so they claim), studied 3 years of grammar and didnt advance a bit. Their speking rocketed but the rest of the skills didnt.
Something about their story is not adding up!
“I studied Spanish in high school for 4 years and I still can’t speak it”
Me bro. Passed that class solid 100% all four years - profesora was from Mexico, so we got the Mexico variety and not the second tier version from Spain.
I now live in West Texas (didn’t during school) and I can’t speak Spanish for shit.
I don't suppose you would make a shortened - and simplified - version of this? There are quite a few advanced and/or technical terms in this version, but you also make some valid points that would benefit learners of any language.
Oh man. I'm really happy you talk about this. I am really good at recognizing or figuring the meaning out in various languages... but I'm not great at speaking.
This really affected my language studies because I kept thinking I knew vocab and grammar because I understood it... but I couldn't use it.
Have to say, AI for learning a language is pretty neat! Not sure what something means, ask AI! Got me some good answers! Etymology, meaning, use case, etc.
Is prayer enough to support this channel?
Can’t hurt, right?
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