NeutronRC’s AT32 vs STM32 - What‘s The Difference
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- čas přidán 3. 08. 2024
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If you feel like building a 5" Freestyle Drone is too hard, you just need the right guidance.
So, I built a course with 71 highly detailed but simple modules, breaking down absolutely everything! They're can't be anything missing, if there is, I will add it. Revealing the Secret Behind a $54 Flight Controller That Could Revolutionize FPV
In the complex world of Flight Controllers (FCs), it's easy to believe that price indicates quality. However, a $54 FC can deliver performance on par with a $139 one, shattering all misconceptions. The secret lies in the processor, a detail that could redefine the FPV (First Person View) landscape and challenge skyrocketing prices.
Commonality Between Everyday Technology and Flight Controllers
Flight Controllers, the brains of our drones, hold an intriguing secret. The processors they house aren't solely used for drones. In fact, they are present in everyday devices from smart watches, digital cameras, home automation devices, to modern, computer-augmented cars, and even military precision-guided munitions.
These processors, or semiconductors, hail from companies like ST Microelectronics, the producer of the STM32 micro-processor, akin to Intel Core Processors in our computers. This line includes the F411 (the i3), F405 (the i5), and the F7 (the i7). As we continue to computerize our world, demand for these processors surges, naturally causing prices to skyrocket.
The Game Changer: The $54 All-In-Flight (AIO) Controller
The real game-changer is the processor and the ESC in the $54 All-In-Flight Controller. These components come not from STMicroelectronics, but from a company called Artery. This controller uses the AT32F435 processor, in comparison to the STM32 F7 Processor used in the $134 Flight Controller.
Comparing STM32 and Artery Processors
Although one might assume that an F7 is superior to an F4, it isn't that straightforward. Consider the STM32 an Intel Processor, and Artery as Apple’s M processors. The Artery F4’s processor is 28% faster than STM’s F7 and also 70% faster than STM’s F4 processors.
However, STM’s F7 has double precision for Floating Point Units (FPU), meaning it can do math with more decimal places than the Artery F4. This makes it tempting to assume that the STM's F7 processor would be better for something as precise as flying an FPV drone.
Why the Artery Processor Outshines STM for FPV
BetaFlight, a drone flight control software, limits the Gryo and PID Loop Frequency on our Flight Controllers to 8,000 times a second for the best gyro. Some of the newer gyros run at 3,000 times a second. The STM’s F7 and Artery’s F4 processors can handle much more than this, with the Artery F4 capable of handling a PID Loop and Gryo running 32,000 times a second.
These numbers indicate that both processors are not being used to their full capability in FPV drones. As such, selecting a flight controller with an Artery processor from a different company, without any performance limitations on paper, allows a 60% cost saving without sacrificing performance.
Real-World Performance and Compatibility Challenges
Of course, paper specifications mean nothing if real-world
performance falls short. Regarding new technology, there are bound to be some practical issues such as drivers and BetaFlight compatibility. Similar challenges emerge when transitioning from Intel processors to Apple Silicon in computers. It will take time for BetaFlight to fully implement Artery and iron out real-world differences.
As of now, BetaFlight 4.5 is slated to integrate Artery. Despite the initial issues, the potential benefits are substantial, considering BetaFlight has been using STM processors since 2015.
The Future of FPV with Artery Flight Controllers
This exciting development could significantly impact the FPV drone landscape. If Artery processors live up to their paper promises, they might become the new standard for FPV drones, heralding a new era of affordable, high-performance flight controllers.
In conclusion, the $54 Flight Controller's secret lies in its Artery processor, an innovation that may save FPV from its cost constraints and open a new chapter in its evolution. It's an exciting time to be part of the FPV community, as we stand at the brink of a technological revolution. - Věda a technologie
🙋🏼♂ Have Questions , Need Help Fixing, Troubleshooting, or Learning More about FPV?
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Great video, I will however note that while the microcontroller is absolutely the greatest cost, the STM32F745VGH6 can be found at $16 USD in single units and quickly decreases in cost with bulk so there is more at play here. I would venture to say a good bit of the cost in F7 controllers is purely part of the fact that they can charge that much due to hype and perceived value in having the most powerful uController on their boards, regardless of using it well below its capabilities. Thanks for showing folks can fly on less than the latest and greatest!
Great content. I would have liked to see a flight after you made the ESC changes, but I am guessing that it flew fine.....
Yes it did, haven’t had any issues so far after changing the esc settings
@@DarrenAllatt until now does it still flew fine after any crash?. im interest of buying this
@@zlachannel8674 yes. Flies perfectly fine now I changed the esc settings
@@DarrenAllatt i have this on my hand and going to build it tonight,,,if i may ask ,how is your AIO nowdays, does it still fly well after several flight/crash??
@@zlachannel8674 yes, still going strong 💪
That, good sir, is the best build montage music in FPV. 100% the moment you earned my sub!
Great video, been very curious about these. Even if its 3/4 as good, for 1/3 the price? Its a win for FPV
Absolutely
Very interesting stuff, good for getting me thinking, what do I get next? Maybe use some of the 7 stacks I have already purchased 1st.
Keep up the good work 🚀🚀🚀👍
Can you test this Aio with inav please! I've heard on intofpv that the gps+compass doesn't work with this one
This is a great upload Darren
Thank you Chris!
Great content!
Neutron rc has really interesting stuff btw, I tried their 8s stack, and it works very well. Good stuff.
Good to know!
Very nice bro !
Great content very well done sir. Keep it up. Subbed
Thank you 🙏
Interesting, they're certainly better priced! Is this board up for sale somewhere yet? Ooh and delivered with AM32 as well! Very interesting!
Also out of curiosity which frame is that? Hope you can get it flying locked in!
Yes you can get it, but it's a pain to get it working because it uses a fork of betaflight
@@DarrenAllatt But, with Betaflight 4.5, didn't you say that 4.5 is going to fully support Artery, and these AIO's?
@@KOrnhOliO1 the information I have is that they're working towards support in 4.5 - whether they deliver or not, that's up to Betaflight and the NeutronRC
OMG! Giant THUMBS UP for this video! Darren, this could actually rejuvenate FPV in a H U G E W A Y ! An AIO with 35 amp ESC's, with black box, current sensor, and DJI 03 / Caddx Vista direct plug for $41 shipped?!!! That's perfect for any of the 3.5" / 250g or under drones that I build. We're back to pricing before the pandemic / chip shortage! Actually less than that... This is a great video to bring attention to NeutronRC! 😎🤘
And they’ve got normal FC’s and ESC’s coming too!
Great video. Maybe I missed it, but that looks like a iFlight AIO?
It’s not. This is made by a company called Neutron who are the OEM for a number of brands like iFlight
@@DarrenAllatt where do I get one? Do they sell direct or is there a store that carries their FC?
I was thinking of buying this fc . Thank u for the review ! I’m cheap lol so AliExpress FTW
Hmm. I'v had good experience with JHEMCU AIO f405 flight controllers. Cost like 50 USD. I got four of them all working great. I just have the feeling the brand manufacturors raised the prices during the pandemic shortage and MPU6000 crysis. Now the suppy is good again and prices should come down, but they just keep the price up for more profit. Can you add a link to that new chip FC? Hope the prices come down
Thanks for sharing
Same here :)
sadly ive had 3 out 5 f405 jhemcu fail . and tried their lastest f722 aio and had 2 fail so far from the 6 i currently have , and they not crash failures, all but 1 as been gyro issues ( 1 did kill 1x esc channel ) really am losing faith in that brand ( and have 3x more on the way in the post )
@@martincosta9961 thanks for sharing your experience. I know JHEMCU had a board layout issue with filters for the new ICM p42688p gyro. They fixed it on the ones I have. Bofore you had to adjust the gyro filters in betaflight that were totally off Standard values. When did you buy the ones that died? Mine are all just 3 months old.
@@martincosta9961 oh and are you using capacitors? Thats a must have...
I just can't tune mine, the vibrations in the dvr are crazy despite the quad being sound, did you have any issues like this?
No,
What’s your setup?
@@DarrenAllatt sorted, it just needed a few extra gummies, it was frame noise, thanks buddy
Can share the drone specs to pair with AT32F4 in the video.
Volador VX3.5 frame. DJI O3, 1804 2450kv motors, 550mah 6S Battery, Radiomaster RP1 on ELRS!
Want to grab an Artery Flight Controller?
Here is the link to a $34 Flight Controller (not the one featured)
🛒 s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DeYgcnf
‣ AT32F435
‣ 20x20 and 30x30 Mount
‣ DJI / Walksnail / HD-Zero Plug
If you want the AIO featured in the video:
🛒www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005551828962.html
Please note, this is not in the main branch of BetaFlight and you will need to run ATBetaflight.
That's craZy! An AIO 25.5 x 25.5mm mounting, direct plug for DJI and caddx vista, 03. 35 amp ESC's .... All for $41 SHIPPED! Bro, what a find!!! :)
The AT32F4 is slower than the STM32F7, even though it has more clock cycles per second. Also, the F7 and the F4 are not completely at their limits with 8k loop but they are very occupied. 32k would not be possible with F4 or F7 in modern Betaflight.
How so?
@@DarrenAllatt the AT32F7 can process more data per clock cycle. So even though the AT32 has a higher clock frequency, the F7 is slightly faster in a benchmark.
The F7 takes around 60-70% CPU load on BF. Maybe if the PID loop and a few other parts get optimized there is room again for a theoretical faster looprate.
@@TimeFadesMemoryLasts yes, and in the benchmark I’ve seen the F7 is only 2% faster. So with the AT32 being 60% cheaper that theoretically demonstrates the obvious choice. Further, given that he’s a processor is not being run to its limits, and is being limited by how fast the gyro in pid loop frequency is, Betaflight is the the bottleneck in performance.
Simplest analogy that comes to mind is that if you have to GPU’s one that is out putting out 120 frames per second the other 130 frames per second, but you’re plugged into a 60 Hz monitor
So neither one is really better in that scenario, therefore comes down to price which makes it an obvious choice
@@DarrenAllatt Yeah for sure. Just wanted to point out a misconception about the AT32F4 being faster for people reading comments. But obviously it's the better choice if it is practically the same speed as STM32F7 but is cheaper and more available.
$54 without an ESC?
WTF
A decent F405 FC with a 50-60A ESC comes at $45-55
It's a AIO * he ditn mention it
Yes it was an AIO
I use "Brake on stop" on all my quads... Sounds like "AIR MODE" was not enabled in configuration to me??? This must be the case?
No “air mode” not being enabled wasn’t the case, because it was enabled.
It was “break on stop” in the esc configuration-
How I know this:
- Airmode is enabled by default and it was enabled
- break on stop was enabled in the esc
- after disabling break on stop, it flew normally.
@@DarrenAllatt weird, I use brake on stop cause it uses esc braking when rpm is dropping which leads to quicker decents in bandos... I was under the understanding betaflight had authority over esc.. so if idle value was up, when you drop the stock to zero, motors go to idle instead of stop like in my wings. Huh?! Maybe AM32 is different in this way? I've not used AM32 as of yet but by golly I'm going to find out!! Lol
STM chips are fabbed in Italy and France.
No link?
www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005551828962.html
Learn to Build a 5" Freestyle FPV Drone 🎓 www.darrenfpv.com/buildmasterclass-5freestyle
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
actually the F7 is better than the at32f4.... the MHz numbers are comparing apples to potatoes... its not about decimal places it can process more commands per cycle.. the stm f7 is defiantly a better performing unit than the at32 f4. also neutrons instance on using the BMI gyros is a backwards step as well with the improved drivers available in 4.4+ for the icm 42688
Except BF is capped at how many commands it can send per cycle to be processed by both the GRYO and PID Loop Frequency.
Even running at 8k 8k - which is a point I make, performance will be the same.
You aren’t anywhere near stretching or hitting the performance limits on either processor
It’s like you are never getting out of 1st gear
On benchmarks I’ve seen, the F7 performs 1-2% better when pushed to its limits.
A limit which neither processor gets close to due to PID loop and gyro frequency limitations.
Why spend 60% more for 2% gains?
@@DarrenAllatt its exactly like saying the bmi270 gyro is better than the m6k… it’s not it’s just cheaper
ooh nice, are these working in betaflight already?
No, I said that in the video
@@DarrenAllatt I wondered how you got it going since you said it didn’t work in betaflight but reading the comments I noticed someone else asked the same question and got the answer thanks
*Promo SM*
What do you mean?
Seriously you didn't even answer the question that you asked at the beginning. Also you said you can't use it until beta flight 4.5 but then you installed it and used it how does that work? Very bad clickbait titled video just thrown together with no thought of getting good information to your subscribers
I’ll answer your question first:
1. How do you use it if you can only use BF 4.5… it’s running a fork of Betaflight known at ATBetaflight. The version it’s running is actually 4.3.2, not the current 4.4.. the point of 4.5 is that it won’t be on its own fork and will be developed into the main part of BF. It’s a pain in the but to use, which was detailed in the talking points between the build & flying.
Now, let’s address your comment
The Questions I asked were:
1) What’s the secret to this FC
2) Why could it save FPV from being expensive
3) Is it worth spending the extra $80
To address the answers specific questions:
1) the secret is that it uses Artery processors instead of STM - which was explained
2) It can save FPV from becoming more expensive as it removes reliance on a single processor manufacturer whose majority of their business comes from servicing every other industries which are happy to pay way more for their MCU’s than we do. - which was explained
3) is it worth buying, that was specifically answered is two parts:
a) comparison of the processing speeds between the AT32 and STM32, as well as the difference in how many FPU’s they can handle - and whether or not that’s important for FPV, in case you missed the obvious answer, yes.
b) that this is an Alpha Release product and still has a lot of work to be done to be functional for the consumer - this was explained with showcasing the segment between the build & the flying where I addressed this point, and the esc issues I had after flying and the last segment.
Now, as for the Clickbait and “throwing together with no thought of getting good information to your subscribers”
“Good information” really, watch the video from end to end - its packed with a tonne of good information to give you the ability to decide for yourself, about this FC
I’m not going to tell you explicitly:
- this is good
- this is bad
I’m not going to give you the explicit answers, but I will give you the information so you can decide for yourself.
If you need someone to tell you what to think, then please unsubscribe.
@@DarrenAllatt lmao at least you got the hit and changed the clickbait title from asking The question that you never answered lol .. so basically you made a video about a product talking about the difference between a cheap and expensive flight controller. And the cheap one is really not even viable yet because there's not a beta flight version that supports it. So instead of just trying to be the first one to make content about it and get clicks why not just wait until there's enough information to actually make an intelligent video about it.
@@KcFpv.. what do you mean, "I got the hit and I changed the title?" it's still the same.
I just had to explain my video to you in my reply to your comment because you missed all of the information which I put into the video.
Mate, you are certainly a few tinnies short of a slab. It seems like you haven't watched the entire video from start to finish? Did you watch the first 30 seconds then skim through to the end?
Like, what do you mean "wait until there is enough information to make an intelligent video" did you miss 3:00 to 5:25 where I just gave you ALL the information you need?
or did talking about how the AT32 is a 30% faster processor than STM's F7, even though it only has Single vs Double Floating Point Units - and how that then applies to our Quadcopters, go completely over your head?
or from 5:50 to 6:45 where I explained the entire situation around its current implementation in Betaflight and how it will be incorporated into BF in future releases because this is fresh out of the oven, but we've been using STM processors since 2015 and it will take a transition period.
what more information did you expect? How it flies, that was 7:00 to 7:48 - and why it didn't well? that was covered from 8:14 to 10:05
Honestly mate, you've missed the entire premise of the video, which is WHY it's cheaper, and what the differences are.
@@DarrenAllattIgnore this hillbilly troll
Hi Darren, great video. I'm a teacher and running a drone course in Victoria next semester. I really want to include the exciting parts of FPV but the cost is a prohibiting factor. I was in the process of compiling a list of parts to build a drone.(based on betafpv pavo25) I will show it here later. I wonder if you can share a list of all your components. I'm relatively new to FPV and we only know DJI tello. (I got a mini pro 3 last year and now getting into FPV). BTW, do you know any safe props? For example, the DJI mini pro 3 will not cut your fingers. You know how teenagers behave 😅