Toyota bZ4X 1000 km challenge with new software part 1
Vložit
- čas přidán 27. 05. 2023
- Get 30 day free Premium trial on ABRP by using referral code "Teslabjorn":
abetterrouteplanner.com/ref/t...
Want to sell your Tesla/EV? marcusbil.no/selge-bilen/?utm...
Want to buy a Tesla/EV? marcusbil.no/biler-til-salgs/...
Leasing a Tesla/EV? marcusbil.no/leasing/?...
Kempower make awesome EV chargers:
kempower.com/teslabjorn/
Get 15 % discount when shopping at www.bilkomponenter.no/ by using code "Teslabjorn". Worldwide shipping available (except for a few countries).
Get 15 % discount (also works on discounted prices) when ordering from Stormberg online by using discount code "Teslabjorn":
www.stormberg.com/no/kampanje...
Tesla referral program is back! ts.la/bjrn3169
Get 10 % discount on S3XY buttons for Tesla:
enhauto.com/?...
Results from my range tests, banana box tests and other goodies here:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
Main folder with everything:
drive.google.com/open?id=1HOw...
My equipment:
www.foto.no/ecoflow/140865/ec...
www.foto.no/ecoflow/140866/ec...
www.foto.no/ecoflow/140862/ec...
www.foto.no/canon/117819/cano...
www.foto.no/canon/117820/cano...
www.foto.no/canon/109080/cano...
www.foto.no/sigma/106703/sigm...
www.foto.no/r%c3%b8de/138324/...
www.foto.no/lowepro/113571/lo...
www.foto.no/fotostativ/122919...
The app I use when connecting to OBD ports on most EVs:
play.google.com/store/apps/de...
ScanMyTesla app for showing battery temperature, etc:
play.google.com/store/apps/de...
/ scanmytesla
www.e-mobility-driving-soluti...
www.e-mobility-driving-soluti...
The OBD dongle I use in Tesla, Leaf, Ioniq, e-Niro, e-Soul, i3, ID3/ID4 (Android only):
www.obdlink.com/products/obdl...
My Artlist playlist:
artlist.io/mycollection/24628...
Most of my music is from Artlist.io. If you sign up for one year and use my referral link, you will get two months free:
artlist.io/artlist-70446/?art...
Donation links:
streamlabs.com/bjrnnyland
/ teslabjorn
My live channel:
/ teslabjornlive24
Teslabjørn Discord server:
/ discord
Reduce food waste and get great deals on food:
toogoodtogo.no/ - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Who doesn’t want a car that punishes them ?
Toyota fumbling its 20-year lead underscores the cyclical nature of history, reminiscent of Kodak's once-dominant era.
cope harder
This is happening in 6 degree weather. Imagine road tripping this in 40c weather 😂
Yes in India it is common
Seems like Toyota has outsmarted all other manufacturers: Save a few engineering jobs and just let you customers do the validation work.... Overheating at 6degC ambient temperature, give me a break.
At least the wheels stay on now
@@IanMcc1000 at least battery doesn't catch fire for now
@@jasonw98 for now..
@@IanMcc1000 needs an UAE test... Later battery charge at 2kw only
‘Punishment points’ sounds like the equivalent to nio’s nomi telling you off for not taking control of its cruise control system ! 😂
"Please put your hands on the steering wheel. Otherwise, you will receive 50 punishment points."
@@evertbunschoten2930 or -50 social credits
Once again you are provide an invaluable feedback to Toyota. Toyota should pay you for this
and pay every customer for taking one off their hands
"Punishment points", aka "we don't know how to deal with frequent fast charging sessions and how to keep battery temperature in range"
Avoiding this car is probably the best thing
The punishment point algorithm is just another nail in the coffin. Absolute joke.
@@HoltAlex time for Tesla to take more factories over like in Fremont
cope
cope
Bjorn: “Yeah, this is E-Tron speed!”
*Karma hits*
Bjorn: “Oooooh, shiiiiiiiiieeeeet…”
So much for the promised update fixing all the issues. And I still wonder about how humongous the bottom buffer is
Toyota used to have an advert on TV in the UK with the catch phrase “the car in front is a Toyota” - not any more as it seems that they are the car at the back of the tech line these days
In front of what? A lang congestion on the road? 😂
@@tonybardalen In "Ladestau"
Gah! Cliffhanger!
*waits impatiently for part 2, despite having watched the livestream and thus knowing the end of the story*
Designing an EV is to a large part designing a thermal management system. If you do not do this you can as well quit your job. Its like forgetting designing lubrication when creating an ICE car. Unbelieveable!
1st stint was only 206 km, 93% battery used! I know average speed was high, but anyways that is a poor range!
Dang with the overheating. I live in Las Vegas, I can’t imagine not overheating when it’s already 43 degrees Celsius.
That's quite odd and a good find Bjorn. Rapid charging until the batteries get too hot. Looks like Toyota needs to tweak things a little as it's still quite cool and the summer heat hasn't hit yet.
Oh but this is summer here in the North, though I take your point. I could imagine more to the South, just leave the car in the sun for a few hours and the car will throttle from the start!
Doesnt the bZ4X's battery have a propper cooling system?
@@TAD-9 The massive delta says it doesn't.
@@sh0dan2 That's embarrassingly terrible engineering. I'm both surprised and a bit sad that Toyota is so bad at making EVs.
@@TAD-9 no, it has a toyota cooling system that they never tried out - haha
Toy tries to compensate the car with more TV ads for this car.
No, they should invest the advertisement money into the improvement of this car. That would help so much more.
15:00 "have never seen any car have this high delta before"
MiEV: Hold my beer....😅
12:30 battery chiller heat exchanger is cold, needs more fluid flow! Seems strange to me the min/max temp of the cells is so wide. I guess battery coolant pump doesn't go faster than 6400RPM.
I charged a Subaru Solterra at this exact same location in Mcdonalds , aaaah it was so slow that I spent the night in the car. 1:05
You probably didn’t have the update like Bjorn
5:29 - Looks like a 40's era Ford! Muy Bueno!! In Norway no less.
Toyota should display the status of the punishment somewhere in the car, so you at least now what's going on. Percentage of PP (punishment points) used and time to the next PP loss and time to 0% PP
It is displayed in the price list of this car.
In cold days drive this car in ECO mode, also climate in ECO. You will be amazed what its difference in range. 🙌🏻. In summer turn on recirculation on AC. Those cars have LPF batteries 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Surprised that Toyota are doing so much advertising for this car. They should spend the money on a new cooling system instead
or spending money to hide that car 🙂
Hi Bjørn
Thanks for serious testing, what is this app you are using? And what do you think the new improvements announced by Toyota yesterday?
Rapidgate is not much if a problem is you get it above 60% soc. At 48-49% it will rapidgate at around 68 kW vs 92 kW without rapidgate.
At 63% you rapidgate at 55 kW against 60 kW withou rapidgate. 5 kW is only 10%. (Data from the previous charging comparison video).
Almost needs a clickbaitier thumbnail picture for such dramatic delta 😄 hahah wow
The Sun has entered the chat
Tks Bjorn. No tks toyota motor corp (along with Subaru Corp)
Holy shiiieet how have they got the temperature delta so large? This is not typical Toyota. For example in any Toyota hybrid, such high delta would trigger fault codes and the car would probably be put into failsafe mode. But Toyota hybrid batteries would not do that of course
Seems like poor battery pack cooling design is the basic problem that they are trying to software around.
Yes, it seems like a fatal hardware flaw that software is being used as a band-aid. The delta T of min and max cell temps is a dead giveaway of improper cooling design. Toyota will have to recall every car to solve this with new hardware, like a more powerful coolant pump.
either wrong thermal design or the wrong battery which is not suited for high currents.
if you look into a porsche taycan, you would find different kind of cells that are designed to handle much higher currents with the potential downside of a lower energy density.
to compensate for the lower energy density, you would need to add more cells.
and that costs money. it seems that this is somewhere the point where toyota cheeped out.
Curing cancer with band-aid.
The charging is so bad it’s a shame because the vehicle is actually kinda cool in person.
Conclusion: A car to stay at the parking lot...that algorithm was pull it out from a soap box in a supermarket to protect a bad system. A big surprise from Toyota.
The new BEV quality standard. How big is the battery temp. delta in cold and hot conditions and on slow or fast driving.
1:50 , most cars stop charging for only about a minute I believe, after which charging resumes.
5:41 bloody hell! That’s complicated!!!! Why??? 😂
Here in Texas its 45* C in the summer. I cant imagine how slow this thing will charge.
It might overheat before you get to the charger.
The car pulls only 1kw when charging. Maybe it can pull more during charging iot cool battery
you would think toyota with the decades of prius hybrid battery cycle experience has the EV functions all sorted... apparently not, should I be concern ? I get 40°C in the summer here in vancouver BC, and its summer now
For me, the best car, model S DM.
20:00 battery temp so high, charge rate down but battery cooling only using 1kw to get the temp down? huh.. why didnt battery cooling work harder to keep the temps more normal..
I haven't understood what Toyota reasoning around the throttling is? Why would they want to do that? To preserve the battery life?
Yes
The problem is that the temperature delta will ruin the battery pack anyway, so it's a useless system
to prevent the battery going up in flames. classic NMC li-ion batteries suffer from so-called thermal runaway when lithium dendrites are forming at high charging speed at high temperatures. you can prevent the dendrite formation (and the following short circuit) by lowering the temperature inside the cells. either by active cooling or passive cooling and lowering the current(charging speed).
they might also cheeped out on the better battery chemistry. you can choose a version with lower inner resistance. that would allow high currents with the disadvantage of less energy density ( less range when not adding a few more cells to compensate for that). obviously the took the version with higher energy density to save a few bucks.
that's what they are getting now.
That overheating could present a problem on hot summer days in Scandinavia, too.
or when you want to drive 🙂 🙂 🙂
what type of battery for this solterra?
Simply due to the fact that Toyota limits DC charging so extremely, the vehicle is fundamentally unsuitable. When it comes to fast charging, I arrived with less than 10% and then usually only charge up to max. 50. So there is always 100 to 150km in it. There are often days when I charge quickly for around 30 minutes in total but drive to a charging station up to 4 times to do so. And usually only leave it plugged in for 10 to 15 minutes. My average charging power on the Megane is usually 100kW+
Poor battery cooling design. It isn’t evenly cooling the cells, causing cold gate and rapid gate at the same time. Are these pouch cells that are only cooled on one end?
Does anyone knows what app he is using? Thanks x
Punishment? - Toyota - build a better thermal management!!!! NoGo for me.
So would the high temperature delta indicate a less than ideal battery cooling design?
Does this only affect the car when traveling long distances that require multiple charges on the trip? If the car is charged at home overnight when required would that help maintain a less restrictive battery usage experience?
High delta indicates that the cells aren’t being cooled evenly. Some parts of the system have good transfer but other parts don’t, likely due to only cooling one side/end of the cells.
@ Ryan Smith Yes I think thats exactly what happened. It seems that Panasonic did a poor job for Toyota here. This can not solved via a software update or with more powerful water pumps its rather poor battery engineering.
gotta love Toyota doing what Nissan did with the leaf with their brand new ev🤣🤣🤣
copying 10 year old tech 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
that is the finest form of japanese tradition 🙂 🙂 🙂
I find it puzzling that it cools the battery with only 1 kW while charging although it's rapidgating but cools it with 2kW while driving. Just doesn't make any sense. Toyota seem not very competent when it comes to EVs.
At 5:00 you can really see the inlaid defrosting wire in the windscreen, that would be annoyingly distracting to look through.
Are you driving the AWD? And did Toyota fix the amount of range taken away when using HVAC? Also, do you know when the update is coming to the US?
Yes, AWD.
If you are a legacy manufacturer who needs to get into BEVs but you only make money on Hybrids and ICE what do you do? If you are a sleazy company, use software to degrade the driver experience but only after they have bought the car!
PUNISHING CUSTOMERS!
When they complain the worst kind of salesman says you should have bought Hybride or Ice and convinces you to take a big hit and change!
BAM! Ripped of the customer and made money on a BEV sale!!
Someone needs to take Toyota to court for this disgusting business practice!
YOU need to tell the world about this before too many people are hurt!!
Bjørn = Norway's most popular youtuber?
Heat rises so bottom of the battery pack is generally cooler than top portions closest to the cabin. Also bottom of pack is closer to the outside temp causing additional cooling. I do wonder whether these engineers consider this or they just apply the same level of cooling throughout the pack or even worse for ease of implementation just cool from the bottom of pack. It probably explains why there is such a high delta and not just with the Toyota.
Heat doesn't generally rise. Hot air or liquids are less dense, resulting in the rise of hot fluids. In homogeneous solids, there's no preferential direction for the flow of heat.
Обычно нагревательные элементы с низу, а охлаждающие на верху аккумулятора.
Hot air rises , in closed environment this not happens with fluids
I do know from the Leaf in a closed pack top portions is warmer. Whether this is due to hot air rising or bottom of pack being closer to outside cooling and upper parts has warmer temps being closer to cabin I don't know. Why would there but such a huge difference in delta. Many suffer from the same issues.
toyota does not have the right engineers. mr. toyoda told everyone everyday over several years that EVs are shit and not the future.
so, traditional japanese dictates to not have a different opinion than your boss.
so, innovative engineers who think the opposite will leave the company and the zombie engineers will stay.
obviously the BZ4X is being developed by zombie engineers.
Зимой из за неправильной системы нагрева, после ночной парковки, при - 30°C, bz не заряжался, пока температура не поднялась до - 15°С🤯🤯🤯
Bjørn you’re supposed to drive like a Toyota driver on that car. Seat all the way to the steering wheel, max speed of 80kph and hug the fast lane 😁
Can you please explain what its all about that temperature delta you mentioned? Is one the battery inlet temperature and the other is the outlet temperature or what? I dont get it but I want to know 😅 Thanks in advance 👍🏼
Diff between min and max temp.
@@bjornnyland of what?
Battery
@@nfspeedy2 battery has multiple cells inside it with temperature probes in different cells to try to sample and estimate the temperature as a whole. Min and max are temperatures from among this pool of probe data
@@ooorgh thank you! Now I see the problem.
Seems like this car was made that way, so it does not impact Toyota hybrids and ICEs.
It impacts Toyota image though, which might impact revenue.
The quickest fix is to increase the coolant flow with a more powerful pump.
Or buy different car.
I dont understand what the test vehicle engineers do? How do they not find these issues, this car is rapid gating at 7C. How will this thing deal with 1000km family trip in 30C? This thing is terrible.
The big question Bjørn, is the bZ4X a bad EV experience for someone who wants to use it as a primary car?
Kinda like having a Chrysler as a daily
It’s a great car! As long as you don’t need more than 40 miles per day.
This car was never designed for long distance traveling. It's meant for local driving and charging at home. If you are that type of owner, this car is perfect for you.
Every time I see photos of this car it looks like the front bumper is falling off.
I think I’ve read that bZ4X have a reduced DC speed setting. Would you get less punishment points and cooler battery by enabling this feature? Sadly the punishment algorithm isn’t visualized in any form so how should regular Toyota owners figure out how to get the most out of the car is beyond me.
As far as I know, there's no such setting. There's a setting for turning on/off active cooling though.
@@bjornnyland, bZ4X has a setting for reducing the DC charging speed.
Aha, interesting. I haven't found it yet.
Please share how?
@@segundofamilytv I read the bZ4X/Solterra owner manual that I found online at some point, before canceling. I think you can change it from either instrument display in front of driver and multimedia display as far as I can find. On the multimedia display you might press the settings icon, Vehicle customize, Charging, Charging limit, select one of: full, 90%, 80%, 70%, 60% or 50%.
Punishment points, troddle (?), coolgate (?), hotgate, rapidgate, heat rejection, ect. 🤔
Don't forget ABC
@@bjornnyland Of course - Always be canoodleing 👍
❤❤❤
Hi, this Toyota has heated windscreen?
Yes
For sure it has (over) heated battery
Amazing how complicated temperature battery management is… the charging performance is in my opinion bad…. 60 kWh at a a SOC of 60% is not state of the art
*60 kW
@@bjornnyland I will never learn it kWh - kW😂
I mean, if you have to think about it, it's probably not designed right..
Cant find the new result in excel sheeet?
Because the test is not over yet.
@@bjornnyland Ok Might have seen it on live stream.
Deltagate!
Toyota haven't learned anything. Hope they learn something from this.
they have to let good EV engineers do the development. the engineers that they pushed out of their company over many years by telling everyone everyday that EVs are shit and are not the future.
now they are stuck with the hydrogen sniffers.
toyota first needs too fix their company before they can fix their shitty EV.
Well I just took a 285 mile road trip in 10-30C conditions and the car did great. Left with 100%, arrived with 33% (at the beach 😎), charged for 5ish hours up to 80% and got home with 15%.
that is an application that always works good, but in some applications, people don't want to charge 5ish hours.
if i had an ev, i would charge it up over night with a slow wallbox. no problemo either.
but when paying that much for a car, i expect it to be suitable to go on a longer road trip full speed on the autobahn and fast charge it every now ans then while grabbing a bity and some coffee.
otherwise i would buy a used Zoe for my max 2*80km trips. or in my case, i simply stick with my 23 year old poisonous and legal diesel until the right EV comes along.
i guess i am waiting for something like an ID.3 but in the third version with the new drive train from the ID.7 in a version from Skoda and the new LFMP battery from Gotion Hightech.
@@stefanweilhartner4415 The 285mi were a leg off a 1400mi trip. I'm doing lots of DC and it also has been working well. Staying low on the battery for a better rate.
After this video, some shareholders won't buy you a pizza anymore.
Not a problem at all. I can buy my own pizza from the money I make on this video.
Sounds like solid ground for information sharing 👍🏾
I don't believe Car Scanner is using the proper PIDs to display live battery temperature.
Why not?
😅.... for Toyota cars (especially EVs) it's best to avoid driving them at all 😂😂😂!
Getting the term "Punishment Points" from Toyota (I guess the engineers) will make their marketing team cry themselves to sleep in the night. For me this simply means: no, I will never buy Toyota.
No doubt an email was already sent out to stop calling it "punishment points." Instead, call it "intelligent battery care" or "battery care points."
Punishment points? So the throttling isnt based on physical limitations but based on bullshit moralizing!?
Maybe they just dont want to talk about their tech so they came up with this bullshit
Toyota... seem they just didn't even trying.
bz4x sales will be ridiculously low. And then Toyota will say : "SEE ! EVs DOESN'T INTEREST ANYONE !"
bZ4X is actually 4th most selling EV in Norway in 2023:
elbilstatistikk.no/
@@bjornnyland it says 2201 on 2023, after U review next of the year will be 201! 😂😂😂
Thanks for U good work!👍🤘
@@bjornnyland For how long ? It's a relatively new product on the market. We have to do the maths after some years and compare it vs. the Tesla Y, the Enyaq, ID4 etc.
This is a poor hardware design. They probably have a series cooling design, then the last cells always get hotter. They had lots of tips from Tesla, Munro...
People who are first time buyers of this EV will never buy an EV again, maybe this is Toyota's plan.
They have to change their battery design to lower the delta.
Or you drive a Tesla hard and charge hard 😊. It's sad to see a humongous company come op with this shiii in 2023. If you compare this to traveling with a 4 year old Model3, it absolutely crazy!
15:30 "seems like it stopped cooling"
It stopped using the AC compressor to cool the battery, but the active cooling may still be active using a radiator..
A possible reason for the high delta is that the inlets cooling liquid is to cold, creating a high delta in the beginning of the loop.
If the incoming cooling temperature was 30°C, the battery would have a more even temperature, because the coldest cell would not go below 30°C...
So Bjørn's solution to "run the coolant stronger" is the wrong solution..
Less aggressive cooling, but running longer.. This will lower the delta..
The solution would be to run the pumps at higher rate then.
@@bjornnyland yes, that is also will help, but I did not write this, because this may not be possible without updating the hardware. Reducing the speed of the heat pump is a software update.
When you increase the flow rate, you can remove the same amount of heat with higher inlet temperature... Reducing the temperature delta. But the solution to high delta is still higher inlet temperature....
I would also say that it was correct to stop using the heat pump to cool down the battery when the ambient temperature is so low.
I disagree. At the start of the session, AC pulled 2 kW. After about 10 minutes when max temp was past 45°C, AC was only at 1 kW. It should have kept going at 2 kW for 5 more minutes.
@@bjornnyland wrote: " I disagree. At the start of the session, AC pulled 2 kW. After about 10 minutes when max temp was past 45°C, AC was only at 1 kW. It should have kept going at 2 kW for 5 more minutes. "
So you want a higher temperature delta? You claimed in the video that you did not want that.
The way to get low delta is to keep the inlet temperature on a stable temperature just below the wanted target temperature. The AC compressor should only do the work that the radiator is not able to do.
What would be your recommended inlet temperature? From your comment in the video, you believe that the inlet temperature is to low (because you claim that the delta is to high).
(note, higher flow-rate will also increase the inlet temperature given the same cooling capacity, but the question is still the same)
The only punishment points is for toyota who have to watch their car fall apart on your videos in front of potential customers. Living with EVs is a hard enough sell besides having to do the things you have to do. Think they want to fail at EV.
toyota told us for many years that EVs are shit and because they are shit, they will not be the future. and to prove their point, they made the BZ4X.
bravo toyota. you succeeded in making that point.
this car is so baad.. what are Toyota doing..
toyota is all into that stupid hydrogen stuff. they dont care about proper EV and did not put in the engineering.
What they've always been doing...
Selling crappy vehicles with tons of false advertising. Relying on past glory, shady leasing practices and nothing else.
@@PenkoAngelov You're way off! Toyota generally deliveres among the most reliable cars in the industry, while maintaining a high level of customer service. The BZ4X though is a shit show, and not at all worthy of the Toyota name...
@ElgenHansi As I've worked for them (supplier) for a couples of years... I can assure you that with every passing year they quality and service life requirements were significantly decreased.
They only thing remaining from the famous "reliability" from the past... is only the nostalgia.
Every time I see that Toyota I think it's been in an accident.
Australians will buy these in droves because Toyota earned their good reputation decades ago and have gradually stuffed it with complacent engineering. Have fun when it's more than 6°C LOL.
I am not saying the car is perfect but i am a bit confused of these allegations.
Does the car charge at 140kw for maybe over 50% of battery? Yes its does and faster than mercedes eqc and many more.
Is the car overall efficient ? Well in other videos it did 17kwh at 90klm and 24kwh at 130klm so again mot perfect but better than other SUVs and especialyy 4x4
Does the car have at least 10 years warranty?? Yes it has
So its probably the best used EV car that you could buy in 1 to 2 years.
Now if you are normal driver would you look at battery temp? No you wouldnt?
Lastly with all this battery temp issues you say it means that this car in summer it wont work at all. So if it does you are all wrong. I am sure there is a logic behind these temperatures that we domt know and i am guessing in summer the car wont work the same
Imagine if you drove this EV like a "normal" person who doesn't care about battery temp, rapid gating or preheat/cooling the battery before charging. Most EV buyers just want an EV they can get in put their destination in and the car shows them how many charging sessions they will need to reach their destination. Seems like with this EV you need to be a nerd to monitor all the different systems and levels that they are at to avoid rapid gate. Not an EV for the average consumer IMHO. I would love to see you drive this like a normal person and ignore all the stuff on that app and see what range and charge speeds you get.
Basically punishing the driver because of poor battery thermal management design.
What a disaster 😢
Ясно е че всички автомобилни производители се опитват да съботират електрическите коли. На всички дилъри на автокъщи им е забранено да хвалят електрическите коли, за да могат да продават хибриди и коли с двигатели с вътрешно горене. Стаава въпрос за изключително много пари. Електрическите автомобили са революция в автомобилостроенето което ще доведе до закриване на производството на двигатели на бензин и дизел, а това е ужасно за автомобилните фирми които са инвестирали милиарди долари в създаването и производството на коли на бензин и дизел.
Wait. You pay that insane amount of money to not burn fossil fuels during its lifetime. And the first thing you know, engineers come up with a punishment points system.
How can Toyota be so f’n awesome with hybrids, yet sucking asses so much with EVs?
Embarrassing charging problems for this car and makes it very much not attractive to potential buyers. Tesla got it right and Toyota has a severe problem IMHO.
So Toyota punishes you when you're using the car. Well, I will make sure not to own one.
well… I did not know it was this shitty😂
It sounds noisy.
maybe EVs need the big radiators that ICE cars use now
By going slower we arrive faster - WELL DONE TOYOTA LOOOOLLL
It's 2023 - why the hell is this car charging so slowly and running so hot? Answer: because Toyota deliberately built a crappy car.